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View Full Version : Why the Texans need Derrick Johnson


ComstockLode
12-15-2004, 04:44 PM
The Texans defense is the main weakness of this team in my opinion.

Domanick Davis has come around, and David Carr is just in a slump, playing against some great teams the past 3 games. I think our offense will improve in many areas next year. Obviously we need to improve the LT position also, but I feel like that can be done in free agency.

Our defense is missing one thing that makes any defense great. A playmaker.

Our secondary improves every game, and our defense gets better every game, except for: Run Defense and Sacks

Our Dline is old, but they arent supposed to make plays. They are supposed to take up blockers in the 3-4 scheme. The linebackers are the key. And our linebacker play has been garbage this year.

Sharper gets an abundance of tackles, but he is not a franchise linebacker. Wong is average. Babin is approaching average. Sharper is above average, and whoever we stick beside him is below average.

This makes for a very average defense, that needs a defensive playmaker. Having witnessed Derrick Johnson firsthand, he is an unbelievable defensive talent. He will run a 4.5 forty, has the confidence you need in a LB, but is a good person.

Reminds me of Andre Johnson on the offensive side of the ball, is Derrick Johnson on the Defensive side. Johnson would be a great pass rusher, and would make plays all over the field. He forces fumbles and is great in pass coverage.

Bottomline, I think he is the best player in this draft. That is obviously my opinon, but having met this 6'4" 235 pound beast that is as fast as most running backs is scary. He singlehandedly kept Texas in the OU with the plays he was making all over the field.

Wondering what yalls thoughts on this is. He would fit in with the Texans personality perfect. An intense player who is very low key off of the field.

TheOgre
12-15-2004, 05:12 PM
He will be a top 5 player. If we end up 5-11 we could reasonably trade up and get him. If we win one more game, I don't see us having a reasonable shot at him.

WWJD
12-15-2004, 05:14 PM
He will be a top 5 player. If we end up 5-11 we could reasonably trade up and get him. If we win one more game, I don't see us having a reasonable shot at him.


I agree. I think he'll go very high in the draft with multiple teams trying to move up to draft him. And if he has a killer Rose Bowl his stock will only increase.

infantrycak
12-15-2004, 05:52 PM
Any chance we can just dredge up all the Sean Taylor posts from last year and search and replace for Derrick Johnson?

OK that was half a joke.

The one significant difference is that the cap arguments are much better for making such a move for a LB (in the top ten will get a contract among the highest paid LB's) than they are for a safety (in the top ten will get a contract almost $2 mil per year over the franchise tag number).

Fiddy
12-15-2004, 05:55 PM
Any chance we can just dredge up all the Sean Taylor posts from last year and search and replace for Derrick Johnson?LOL, thats the first thing that popped into my head...

nunusguy
12-15-2004, 05:57 PM
The Texans defense is the main weakness of this team in my opinion.

You must not have seen the Indy game Sunday.

astrofan
12-15-2004, 06:54 PM
Comstock

you'll notice that none of these jokers are refuting your statements except for saying that our D is not a weakness :shocked
DJ would be great, but it costs quite a bit to move up
according to foolballcorner.bizland.com
1 overall is worth about 3000
2 overall is worth about 2600
3 overall is worth about 2200
4 overall is worth about 1800
5 overall is worth about 1700

if we pick between 10-15

10 1300
11 1250
12 1200
13 1150
14 1100
15 1050

that's a big gap to make up
I think he would be a perfect pick for us but in reality it would be tempting to trade down and get at least another first day pick
when I am looking through guys that are draft eligible, I realize that there are a bunch of very good football players out there
it would be tough to give up a shot at building up some deth two years in a row

BradK10
12-15-2004, 07:08 PM
some draft productions have him slipping to around 15 because of his inability to take on blocks

Blake
12-15-2004, 07:30 PM
He will be a top 10 pick no doubt. I dont see him slipping past a team with the #10 pick, even if they have more pressing needs. While I would love to get him, I think I like the idea of droping down to around 20, and getting an extra 2nd.

1. Marcus Spears
2. Vernand Morency
2. Carlos Rogers

Oh yeah, that would be nice...*drool*

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-15-2004, 07:43 PM
I'd rather stay where we are in the draft and take Ahmad Brooks. JMO

texansfan88
12-15-2004, 07:48 PM
He will be a top 10 pick no doubt. I dont see him slipping past a team with the #10 pick, even if they have more pressing needs. While I would love to get him, I think I like the idea of droping down to around 20, and getting an extra 2nd.

1. Marcus Spears
2. Vernand Morency
2. Carlos Rogers

Oh yeah, that would be nice...*drool*
why would you want Morency? He's a joke and is not well liked by his teammates, considered lazy, and doesn't have a good work ethic

Blake
12-15-2004, 08:12 PM
why would you want Morency? He's a joke and is not well liked by his teammates, considered lazy, and doesn't have a good work ethic

Did you read that somewhere?

Vernand Morency: 2004
Games - Att - Yards - YPC - YDS/G - TD
10 - 250 - 1454 - 5.8 - 145.4 - 12

And that average isnt just against bad teams. He had a 100 yard game, and a 5.0 ypc average against the horns, and 93 yards with a 5.3 ypc average against the sooners. When he gets the ball, he gets his yards.

astrofan
12-15-2004, 10:10 PM
if you watched the Red Raiders shut him down then you would know that he ain't got nothing
the cowgirls run the ball well over 75% of the time
if vernand is a first day pick, BigPlay&Bobo're first rounders

Bobo: 4200+yards 65+%completion 29 TDs 380+yds/game
BigPlay: 69catches 870+yds 12.6ypc
vernand: 1400+yds 5.8ypc 12TDs

TT 591 pass attempts 272 rushes
OSU 166 pass attempts 564 rushes

Gomer sez: itz a system, itz a system

astrofan
12-15-2004, 10:24 PM
Did you read that somewhere?

Vernand Morency: 2004
Games - Att - Yards - YPC - YDS/G - TD
10 - 250 - 1454 - 5.8 - 145.4 - 12

And that average isnt just against bad teams. He had a 100 yard game, and a 5.0 ypc average against the horns, and 93 yards with a 5.3 ypc average against the sooners. When he gets the ball, he gets his yards.

I'm really overwhelmed by the 108 yards and 4.7 avg against Tech
take out the four carries for 59 yds thanks to DC Satanich
that leaves 19 carries for 49 yards 2.5ypc

did you read that somewhere? :BananaWav

beerlover
12-16-2004, 12:31 AM
I'd rather stay where we are in the draft and take Ahmad Brooks. JMO

he is a junior not declared yet for early entry (as far as I know). if you want to include eligible underclassman Chowder would be a better fit for the Texans because he is also a prolific run stopper, can shed tackles thru the middle or come off the corner. he could be the trigger switch that Cappers 3-4 needs to control the ground attack, 3rd down conversion rate & increase our sack ratio. as long as were dreaming, dream big. Texans style :excited:

astrofan
12-16-2004, 01:03 AM
he is a junior not declared yet for early entry (as far as I know). if you want to include eligible underclassman

is there a reliable updated list of declaring underclassmen
I see some but they are usually not very current
thanks in advance

TexansCanes
12-16-2004, 03:24 AM
Reminds me of Andre Johnson on the offensive side of the ball, is Derrick Johnson on the Defensive side. Johnson would be a great pass rusher, and would make plays all over the field. He forces fumbles and is great in pass coverage.

i don't really know what that means. that is not the right comparison anyway. if you want to compare DJ to anyone on the miami team it would be McGahee. i think your comparison is that when ever a big play is made, DJ has something to do with it. when miami needed a big play they went to willis, maybe i'm wrong. remember andre was never the focus point of the offense, althought ken did start to look more to him during his junior season. also you are just stating the obvious by saying that we need DJ. i think everyone one the board has said that some way.

OSU 166 pass attempts 564 rushes

that stat right their shows why his numbers were good. everyone and their mothers knew that the cowboys were going to run the ball. woods didn't scare anyone, so they wouldn't defend the pass. also, wasn't vernand hurt during the season, i think it was his hamstring?

I do miss the 20 topics about how we should/shouldn't draft Sean!

TheOgre
12-16-2004, 09:11 AM
How many of those "Trade up for Sean Taylor" posters are upset we "settled" for Dunte now?

Beastlyman2003
12-16-2004, 10:16 AM
i really dont think that carlos rogers will fall into the 3rd round

infantrycak
12-16-2004, 12:02 PM
How many of those "Trade up for Sean Taylor" posters are upset we "settled" for Dunte now?

Some of them were so disgusted that Taylor wasn't taken they quit the MB.

In any event, just for giggles, for a comparison:

What the Texans did:
#10 Dunta Robinson
#27 Jason Babin
#122 Glenn Earl

What they might have done:
#10+#40 for #5--not sure this would have been acceptable to the Redskins, but it is a slight premium for them.
#5 Sean Taylor
#71 Randy Starks--same choice TN made
#103 Nathan Vasher--TN took Bo Schobel who doesn't fit the Texans

ArlingtonTexan
12-16-2004, 12:08 PM
Some of them were so disgusted that Taylor wasn't taken they quit the MB.

In any event, just for giggles, for a comparison:

What the Texans did:
#10 Dunta Robinson
#27 Jason Babin
#122 Glenn Earl

What they might have done:
#10+#40 for #5--not sure this would have been acceptable to the Redskins, but it is a slight premium for them.
#5 Sean Taylor
#71 Randy Starks--same choice TN made
#103 Nathan Vasher--TN took Bo Schobel who doesn't fit the Texans

In the 1st couple of rounds last year there was more than a slight premium paid to move up...the Browns paid the 1st and 2nd switch one spot. the texans would have needed to add at least another pick if not more.

TheOgre
12-16-2004, 02:20 PM
Some of them were so disgusted that Taylor wasn't taken they quit the MB.

In any event, just for giggles, for a comparison:

What the Texans did:
#10 Dunta Robinson
#27 Jason Babin
#122 Glenn Earl

What they might have done:
#10+#40 for #5--not sure this would have been acceptable to the Redskins, but it is a slight premium for them.
#5 Sean Taylor
#71 Randy Starks--same choice TN made
#103 Nathan Vasher--TN took Bo Schobel who doesn't fit the Texans

From what I recall, the Redskins had some insane request. Something like 2 1st's and additional picks to trade up. Lets say that for argument's sake we had to give up a 1st and 3rd in 2004 and our 2005 1st round pick. Would you do that? I remember I personally set the limit at a 1st, 3rd, and 4th. I even thought that may be too much.

I can see your argument against trading for Babin though. That is an entirely separate discussion IMO. Imagine this:
#10 Dunte Robinson
#40 ?
#71 Randy Starks--same choice TN made
#103 Nathan Vasher--TN took Bo Schobel who doesn't fit the Texans

Babin really has to pan out or our trade with the Titans is going to look silly.

infantrycak
12-16-2004, 02:27 PM
In the 1st couple of rounds last year there was more than a slight premium paid to move up...the Browns paid the 1st and 2nd switch one spot. the texans would have needed to add at least another pick if not more.

I agree, the chart was off last year--the trade I put was 1700 for the #5 for 1300 #10 and 500 #40. IMO that wouldn't have gotten it done. As Ogre said there were reports that the Skins wanted some obscene amount.

And Ogre--I wasn't arguing against the Babin trade just giving a what if we had traded for Taylor and what might have flowed from that--one of the things that would have flowed is that you lose both Robinson and Babin because you wouldn't have had the picks to move up and get Babin.

astrofan
12-16-2004, 03:03 PM
that stat right their shows why his numbers were good. everyone and their mothers knew that the cowboys were going to run the ball. woods didn't scare anyone, so they wouldn't defend the pass. also, wasn't vernand hurt during the season, i think it was his hamstring?

that stat right their shows why his numbers were good. everyone and their mothers knew that the Red Raiders were going to pass the ball. Tech's running game didn't scare anyone, so they wouldn't defend the rush. also, wasn't BJ hurt during the season, i think it was his blownout knee :thud:

does that work both ways?

Blake
12-16-2004, 03:12 PM
that stat right their shows why his numbers were good. everyone and their mothers knew that the Red Raiders were going to pass the ball. Tech's running game didn't scare anyone, so they wouldn't defend the rush. also, wasn't BJ hurt during the season, i think it was his blownout knee :thud:

does that work both ways?

You are a joke. There is a reason Morency will be a 1st or 2nd round pick. And there is a reason why BJ, and his WR, were second day picks, or not picked at all.

astrofan
12-16-2004, 03:24 PM
mewelde moore and cedric cobbs were much better backs than vernand, and they didn't go until 119 and 128
was that a joke?

Blake
12-16-2004, 05:24 PM
mewelde moore and cedric cobbs were much better backs than vernand, and they didn't go until 119 and 128
was that a joke?

Well thats your opinion. And ill respect that.

nunusguy
12-16-2004, 07:13 PM
"Some of them were so disgusted that Taylor wasn't taken they quit the MB"
From this threads origgional post.
Wow, that's so interesting to me because I to knew a lot of people who were downright infatuated with Taylor. While he was an outstanding athelete, as a safety he was playing at the least strategically important position on the D side of the ball. I remember thinking how I thought D-Rob was a better "overall" pick than Taylor for us (or any team), because corners are
so much more important than safeties. And that was before we had any idea how good D-Rob was gonna be. The thing about Taylor (and some others like R.Williams with the Cowboys), is that they are natural LBs playing safety. And that's odd since LB is a very important position.

astrofan
12-16-2004, 10:47 PM
according to drafthistory only four LBs have gone higher that Babin since 2000
jonny vilma
dj williams
nap harris
dan the man morgan

wags
12-16-2004, 10:52 PM
according to drafthistory only four LBs have gone higher that Babin since 2000
jonny vilma
dj williams
nap harris
dan the man morgan

Terrell Suggs also.

astrofan
12-16-2004, 11:24 PM
of course
I think he was on the DE list

ledzeppelin229
12-17-2004, 01:53 AM
I'll admit I was on the Sean Taylor bandwagon for awhile.

I'll admit I had little clue as to who Robinson or Babin were on draft day and questioned the moves, but there's a reason I'm not paid to do this.

I'll also admit Robinson is a stud so far and I have no regrets at this point, and feel like Babin will prove his worth when we get a DLine that performs atleast average.

ComstockLode
12-17-2004, 02:17 AM
Any chance we can just dredge up all the Sean Taylor posts from last year and search and replace for Derrick Johnson?

OK that was half a joke.

The one significant difference is that the cap arguments are much better for making such a move for a LB (in the top ten will get a contract among the highest paid LB's) than they are for a safety (in the top ten will get a contract almost $2 mil per year over the franchise tag number).

I understand that, I have been around this board along time, I just dont ever really see a reason to post, I am more of a college football fan to be honest. However, I am a huge Texans fan.
As many of you may have experienced, the NFL lost its luster to me when the oilers moved, so I became strictly a college football nut.

I am not saying its anywhere near negative if we dont move up. I thought Sean Taylor would have been great, but I dont think he fit our team, and we had more pressing needs than safety IMO. Dunta Robinson was a hit or miss, and it definately looks like a hit at this point. The reason I like DJ so much, because I think he is one of the only sure things in this years draft.

However, comparing a playmaking safety to a playmaking linebacker, is not a fair comparison. As great as Ed Reed has been this year, Would you rather have Ed Reed on your team over Ray Lewis? Obviously DJ is not Ray lewis, I am just pointing out that LB is a more important position.

some draft productions have him slipping to around 15 because of his inability to take on blocks

That is DJ's main weakness, and I dont think it would be exposed as much in a 3-4 defense that is designed for the dlinemen to take up blocks, to free up the LBs. A similiar system is in place at Texas however run out of a 4-3/

don't really know what that means. that is not the right comparison anyway. if you want to compare DJ to anyone on the miami team it would be McGahee. i think your comparison is that when ever a big play is made, DJ has something to do with it. when miami needed a big play they went to willis, maybe i'm wrong. remember andre was never the focus point of the offense, althought ken did start to look more to him during his junior season. also you are just stating the obvious by saying that we need DJ. i think everyone one the board has said that some way

I should clarify my statement. I was comparing DJ's and Andre's attitudes as opposed to there college careers. Derrick Johnson is a fiery player on the field, but is quiet, low key,and mild mannered off of it. Fitting into what the Texans want from their players.

I agree, the chart was off last year--the trade I put was 1700 for the #5 for 1300 #10 and 500 #40. IMO that wouldn't have gotten it done. As Ogre said there were reports that the Skins wanted some obscene amount.

I dont think we should enter into an obscene trade, I was just making the statement, if it wasnt that obscene of a trade to the Texans, I think he is worth going for.

Sean Taylor has a chance of being a Roy Williams. Dunta Robinson has a chance at being a shutdown corner. This is a totally different scenario from this year.

There are no sure things to improve our offensive line immediately in this years draft which is the consensual biggest weakness of this team. Another Dlinemen would just be a rotating player that would replace one of the old guys eventually, that is only intended to take up blocks. Our corners are set, and there arent any incredible talents out there at safety.

So I assumed it could be worth a shot at going after a franchise linebacker, that can blitz the QB, run stop, and play well in pass coverage.

ComstockLode
12-17-2004, 02:38 AM
I thought I should throw in some of his interviews/quotes/letters that suggest what a gracious guy DJ is.

Regarding the Bronko Nagurski award day:

"Today they have a full day planned for us. We got up bright and early for breakfast and then we went to speak to some high school kids about leadership. I really enjoyed having a chance to talk to the kids. I do that a lot in Austin and it's really rewarding to be able to share your experiences and to help them out. We are in such a great position to be role models for kids and I take that very seriously. After spending about an hour and a half with the kids it was off to the awards luncheon. Mark May from ESPN is the emcee tonight. He's someone everyone will recognize from Game Day. I enjoyed meeting him at lunch. After lunch we had a chance to give a little more back in visiting patients at a local children's hospital. The kids really lit up while we were there. That made us all feel great. I probably enjoyed that time more than anything else thus far.

Now it's time to get dressed up in my tux for the banquet. We have a press conference, the banquet and then the award. Hopefully the next time I write, it will be as the Bronko Nagurski Trophy winner.

Cross your fingers.

Hook 'em

D.J."

"After the luncheon, we went and spoke at the Burnett Bayland Home for Juveniles and tried to encourage them to be able to learn from their mistakes and build their character. We took pictures and signed autographs afterward and I enjoyed talking to a lot of them. I hope we were able to inspire them to work for their dreams.

From there, we went to a radio station to do an interview before going to a dinner reception with a lot of people from the Rotary Club of Houston and the Lombardi Committee. I met a lot of nice people, plus there was more picture taking and autograph signing before we came back to the hotel where I was glad to see my bed.

Today was a really special day. We had another pretty early wake up call at 7 a.m., but we got ready, had some breakfast and went to two children's hospitals where most of the kids were having cancer treatment. A lot of people say what we do inspires them, but I met so many young kids who have to fight each day, and they were the ones who really inspired me. All of us were just glad to be able to brighten their day. The Texas Children‚s Hospital even has its own little radio station and one of the kids interviewed us for the whole hospital to hear."

What was your favorite moment from the trip?
My favorite moment was having the opportunity to meet Dick Butkus. He's my idol. He's the best linebacker to ever play the game of football. For me to get a chance to him was remarkable. Also, getting to meet all of the kids at the hospitals on the trip was really special. They show what true courage and character really is.

Going to the awards was an experience that I will cherish for the rest of my life. It's something I will tell my kids and my grandkids and I will tell them that all of the awards I was up for were all very prestigious awards.

What was it like coming back after that long week?
The Lott Trophy ceremonies really gave me a chance to relax. I did that. So I was able to catch up on all my rest. My teammates welcomed me when I finally got back. They showed me a lot of appreciation. They said that they were honored to play with me and I am honored that they appreciate me.

What happens next?
Just doing a lot of work and getting ready for the bowl game. School is out but we have a lot of things to focus on, that's Michigan and our game plan.

What have you seen from the Michigan offense?
I've been really impressed with the way they get the ball to Braylon Edwards, the best receiver in the country, and they do it a lot.

What does Derrick Johnson want for Christmas? I want a new video game and a Rose Bowl win for The University of Texas.

Corrosion
12-18-2004, 08:32 AM
[QUOTE=ComstockLode]

Our defense is missing one thing that makes any defense great. A playmaker.

[QUOTE]


Couldnt have said it better myself .
And there is no comarison between Sean Taylor and Derrick Johnson other than they are both great athlete's .

AndreJ
12-18-2004, 11:22 AM
Someone said our D was missing a playmaker, apparently they were not aware that the Texans drafted a rookie conerback last year, who continues to pick off QB's and had two sacks on Peyton last week, sure he gives up a few passes here and thee but he makes great open field tackles and even with the BS no touch rule this year he is playing wonderfully.

If he hasn't made any plays, i dont know what a playmaker is? (Ed Reed, maybe? Yeah he's one in about a trillion)

Vinny
12-18-2004, 12:51 PM
I think most people agree that we still need a playmaker in our front-7. That is probably what the reference is to.

astrofan
12-18-2004, 05:28 PM
would DJ line up between Sharper and Babin?

Beastlyman2003
12-18-2004, 06:07 PM
Derrick Johnson would be perfectly suited to play ILB in the Texans 3-4 defense

DRob Coleman Earl CARLOS ROGERS(AUBURN)
Wong DJ Sharper Babin
Smith GABRIEL Walker
WATSON
(NOTREDAME)


THATS what im talking about!

ComstockLode
12-18-2004, 07:21 PM
Someone said our D was missing a playmaker, apparently they were not aware that the Texans drafted a rookie conerback last year, who continues to pick off QB's and had two sacks on Peyton last week, sure he gives up a few passes here and thee but he makes great open field tackles and even with the BS no touch rule this year he is playing wonderfully.

If he hasn't made any plays, i dont know what a playmaker is? (Ed Reed, maybe? Yeah he's one in about a trillion)

Dunta Robinson is not a defensive playmaker. He is a very good young cornerback. You cannot take stats from one game and automatically consider a player a playmaker. There is only one corner in the game at the moment IMO, that is a playmaker: Champ Bailey.

When I talk about playmaker I am talking about an upper echelon player. Can you honestly say Dunta is even a top 5 corner in the league at this point? Top 10? Top 15? He isnt the best corner on the team at this point. He could become one, but at the moment he is not. And there is no guarentee that he will be a shutdown corner. He could just end up being a very good corner. He could end up being the next champ bailey. But he probably wont be.

The Texans need someone to stop the opposing team from running the ball down our throat. The Texans need better coverage against the underneath routes. The Texans need better pass rushers, because we are in the bottom 1/4 in the league in sacks.

AndreJ
12-18-2004, 07:38 PM
I haven't taken any stats from one particular game and said DRob was a playmaker. He has been doing his thing for the entire season with the exception of probably his first to starts. He has been challenged game after game and continues to make plays. 5 picks, 2 sacks, 69 tackles and 13 passes defensed and you're saying he hasn't made any plays. Sure the guys a rookie and wont be considered to be in the top 5 or maybe 10, but he is on his way if not already there.

I don't know how many games you have seen champ bailey play in this year, but he hasn't exactly been doing as good as most make it out to be. It is probably due to the new BS, no touch rule, but i dunno and don't care. He has been burned previous times by multiple recievers this year and is not having an outstanding season. His stats are 3 picks, 0 sacks, 69 tackles and 7 passes defensed.

And in response to being a shutdown corner. AS OF 2004 THERE IS NO SUCH THING. That new rule has made it so most recievers can get open in limited time one on one. If you want to disprove me you take any CB in the world, I'll have Moss or hell Andre Johnson for that matter. Give him 3-5 seconds throw the ball up and see who comes down with it. :boxing:

ComstockLode
12-18-2004, 11:54 PM
I haven't taken any stats from one particular game and said DRob was a playmaker. He has been doing his thing for the entire season with the exception of probably his first to starts. He has been challenged game after game and continues to make plays. 5 picks, 2 sacks, 69 tackles and 13 passes defensed and you're saying he hasn't made any plays. Sure the guys a rookie and wont be considered to be in the top 5 or maybe 10, but he is on his way if not already there.

I don't know how many games you have seen champ bailey play in this year, but he hasn't exactly been doing as good as most make it out to be. It is probably due to the new BS, no touch rule, but i dunno and don't care. He has been burned previous times by multiple recievers this year and is not having an outstanding season. His stats are 3 picks, 0 sacks, 69 tackles and 7 passes defensed.

And in response to being a shutdown corner. AS OF 2004 THERE IS NO SUCH THING. That new rule has made it so most recievers can get open in limited time one on one. If you want to disprove me you take any CB in the world, I'll have Moss or hell Andre Johnson for that matter. Give him 3-5 seconds throw the ball up and see who comes down with it. :boxing:

I agree with pretty much every statement you made. But you proved a point for me. Not many corners have an opportunity to take over a game. I can only think of one in the history of the NFL, and that was Deion Sanders. Safeties can be huge playmakers also, but a linebacker is the key to a playmaker on defense. There arent too many opportunities to land a player of his caliber.

But this is just my opinion. For all I know he could do nothing in the NFL. But for me, he is the only sure thing in this years draft. And I think he would make an immediate difference in our defense as a rookie.

By the way, 69 tackles for a corner is ridiculous. Another reason we need a playmaker at linebacker.

Grid
12-19-2004, 01:56 AM
well.. by definition a playmaker is someone who makes it a habit to perform HUGE plays when the team needs it most.

SO.. if we were behind and needed the ball back.. could we count on Robinson to intercept it? I dont think we could.. it just doesnt work that way.

I agree that there is no such thing as a shutdown corner anymore, and so I really dont think there is such thing as a playmaker at CB anymore.

If there was though.. Dunta would be as close as you could get to it. The guy can do everything. Hell who knows.. he still may end up being a huge playmaker for us based solely on his tackling and rushing ability.


When I think of a playmaker though.. Im thinking about someone who we can depend on on 3rd and long, in a tight game, to break through that line and get the sack or force an errant pass. Someone who can constantly disrupt the opposing offense for us.

beerlover
12-19-2004, 02:08 AM
As rookies you could make a favorable comparison between Sean Taylor & Dunta Robinson.

Sean Taylor was the top rated defensive playmaker of the 04 draft and was selected 5th overall by Washington.

This years flavor is Derrick Johnson, most likely another top 5 pick (my best guess the Saints) would be formidable for the Texans to trade up & costly.

Traditionally in the 3-4 defense the playmaker comes from a LB. Does not mean it has to be but does make sense & works best historically.

Therefore the best course of action would be to select the best of the rest for a 3-4 defense, a lesser known talent like Dunta was last year (Dunta was the second corner taken, Hall first).

Several draft savy posters here have suggested Ahmad Brooks, Virginia. First he will need to declare his intention to enter the draft early.

The 3rd top playmaking LB is Channing Crowder also underclassman, in the Ray Lewis mold, aggressive & physical.

If both underclassman stay is school & Derrick is gone look for the Texans to draft a young, physical fast DT like Marcus Spears, LSU.

Then address the need in the 2nd round or bump that up to the 1st like they did last year with the Babin trade & take the next best LB who fits the 3-4.

At the moment my favorite sleeper LB is Marcus Lawrence from Dunta Robinsons old school South Carolina, Texans could reunite teammates. http://uscsports.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/lawrence_marcus00.html

ComstockLode
12-19-2004, 12:14 PM
I agree with the Texans probably not getting Derrick Johnson, I just thought he would be a good fit. I think we are more likely to draft Thomas Davis S from Georgia.

I dont think we are good enough at this point to draft a high first round pick, and have him sit the bench most of the games. Which is what would probably happen if he drafted a dlinemen.

Hottoddie
12-19-2004, 01:07 PM
While I'd love to see the Texans draft a sudden impact player that'll put us over the top, common sense tells me that no single player is going to be able to carry this team to the playoffs. We still have a lot of needs to fill & I believe that this year is the year to set the table for next year's draft.

Depending upon how high we pick in the draft, I'd look to trade down for additional picks, with the intent being to pick up an extra #1 pick next year. That would put us in position to make a bold (& expensive) trade next year to move up & take the best impact player available. Two #1 picks in the same draft will usually get someone's attention.

In my opinion, we need to take the best available player of need with our 1st pick & add quality 1st day talent for depth. We need to upgrade the depth of the DL, OL, TE, LB, & the CB's. We should be able to sign a starting DL in free agency to upgrade the DL.

Impact players make a difference from the 1st day they step on the field (that's why they call them impact players), but your depth & role players generally don't hit the ground running. They tend to need a year of seasoning before they are ready to significantly contribute to the team. That's why I believe that we should fill out our depth this year & make a move for that impact player next year. Giving up extra picks to move up for 1 impact player this year is, in my opinion, just putting a bandaid on an open wound. It's just a matter of time until it starts bleeding again (in other words, injuries to your starters).

Besides, not every impact player is an obvious top 10 player. There are always the late round gems to be found, if the scouting department has done it's job.

AndreJ
12-19-2004, 06:57 PM
Ok, for all you who thought Duntae Rob wasn't a playmaker please tell me you saw the game today. The amn was all over the place!!!!! He had 7 solo tackles, 1 Int, 1 Sack and a Forced Fumble. I think i rest my case.

As far as a playmaker at LB, there were alot of guys who stepped up today. Kailee Wong had a great game even though he didn't get any sacks he was in Hutch's face all game long and Peek and Babin did the same. I would still like to see someone at MLB though like most of you say. Another good solid tackler, who could stuff the run and force fumbles next to Jamie Sharper would be great. But I would be just as happy with a good D-Lineman that would keep us in a 4-man rotation to keep them fresh.

Just my thoughts..........

aj.
12-19-2004, 08:05 PM
Dunta Robinson is not a defensive playmaker. Funny.....

ComstockLode
12-20-2004, 01:14 AM
Ok, for all you who thought Duntae Rob wasn't a playmaker please tell me you saw the game today. The amn was all over the place!!!!! He had 7 solo tackles, 1 Int, 1 Sack and a Forced Fumble. I think i rest my case.

As far as a playmaker at LB, there were alot of guys who stepped up today. Kailee Wong had a great game even though he didn't get any sacks he was in Hutch's face all game long and Peek and Babin did the same. I would still like to see someone at MLB though like most of you say. Another good solid tackler, who could stuff the run and force fumbles next to Jamie Sharper would be great. But I would be just as happy with a good D-Lineman that would keep us in a 4-man rotation to keep them fresh.

Just my thoughts..........

Amazing, the defense played real well against *gasp* one of the worst if not the worst offense in the NFL at the moment. They are on their 4th starting QB this year.

Dont get me wrong, we do not have many bad players starting on the team. But they are pretty much average. Wong is an average OLB. Babin has potential... but is below average at this point.

If you want to compare what is average or below, compare to other 3-4 defenses in the league, and see who the better players are. The raiders and texans have the two worst 3-4 defenses in the league. Bottom line.

haven't taken any stats from one particular game and said DRob was a playmaker. He has been doing his thing for the entire season with the exception of probably his first to starts. He has been challenged game after game and continues to make plays. 5 picks, 2 sacks, 69 tackles and 13 passes defensed and you're saying he hasn't made any plays. Sure the guys a rookie and wont be considered to be in the top 5 or maybe 10, but he is on his way if not already there.

And then you do exactly what you said you werent going to do. Dunta is a very good corner. If you think you can depend on him to make a sack a game, and a forced fumble, you are in the dark. Dunta Robinson will be a very good cornerback. Will he stop good running teams from ramming it down our throats? Will he be the only source of defensive pressure we get?

Funny.....

That was said due to the fact that Dunta will not be able to control every game. As a linebacker, you control the whole game. Unless Dunta plans on stopping the run every game and being the only player to put pressure on the QB, and cover their second best reciever....

TexansCanes
12-20-2004, 04:31 AM
i just wanted to say that i thought our offense had some problems, but atleast when carr throws his 15 dump-off passes to DD everygame (except this one), they actually get to him, their offense is horrible :thud: . their offense might make us a little blind. just because we had a great game, we still have the same defensive weaknesses that he had last week. actually i was a little disappointed, i read in the post this morning that the bears have given up like 4 sacks in each of their last 10 games, and from my count (from mid second quarter on) we only had one or maybe two. i know we had pressure but we weren't able to finish it off.

TheOgre
12-20-2004, 11:26 AM
Dunta has taken advantage of many of the opportunities that have presented themselves and turned them into big plays. If you don't call that a "playmaker" then we have different definition for the term. Really the only positions on the field that cannot be "playmakers" IMO are along the O-line.

Wolf
12-20-2004, 11:40 AM
I will be suprised if DJ is in a Texan uniform.. I think our draft position is going to be too high and it will cost too much to move up in the 1st given we only have 1 extra pick (3rd round) and many holes to fill. I don't see us trading up in the early 1st.. now moving up in the 2nd round. I could see that (like we did last year)

Blake
12-20-2004, 11:50 AM
I think we have more than enough needs NOT to shoot up for a player like DJ. Ahmad Brooks, Marcus Spears, Thomas Davis, and even someone low 1st like Channing Crowder. So anywhere we are in the draft, I see us sticking there, and taking BPA.

ComstockLode
12-20-2004, 11:54 AM
Dunta has taken advantage of many of the opportunities that have presented themselves and turned them into big plays. If you don't call that a "playmaker" then we have different definition for the term. Really the only positions on the field that cannot be "playmakers" IMO are along the O-line.

Ugh... Yall are all misunderstanding my word usage of playmaker.... or I am not clarifying it well enough.

Dunta Robinson is good in coverage. Dunta Robinson will make tackles to the outside. Dunta Robinson is good for an occasional sack on a corner blitz.

Dunta Robinson cannot stop runs to 80% of the field. Dunta Robinson cannot cover every wide reciever. Dunta Robinson cannot be our main source or one of the main sources for pressure on the QB.

The fact that Dunta has so many tackles is ridiculous upon itself. A corner having that many tackles?!?!? Is it because he is such a great tackler, or is it because the rest of our defense cant make one?

AndreJ
12-20-2004, 12:06 PM
Good lord man, it is not Dunta's job to shut down the run even though he comes up and makes stop sometimes his job is to be out in the secondary stopping passes and picking of balls and thats what he's been doing lately. I think you're trying to say we need another playmaker in the front 7 to stop the run.

We're not saying Dunta is goin to do that for us, were just saying he makes plays in the secondary with and occasional sack. You are saying you want another playmaker to stop the run and pressure the QB am i correct?

gwallaia
12-20-2004, 12:13 PM
Back to Derrick Johnson. There is no way in the world he will still be available when the Texans pick. Perhaps his teammate Rodirique Wright would fit in nicely with the Texans as DT.

TheOgre
12-20-2004, 12:20 PM
Dunta Robinson cannot stop runs to 80% of the field. Dunta Robinson cannot cover every wide reciever. Dunta Robinson cannot be our main source or one of the main sources for pressure on the QB.

Nobody can do all of that. By your definition, there are no playmakers.

Wolf
12-20-2004, 12:30 PM
all dante needs to do is shut off HIS side of the field and let the others do their thing. If he can cut the field in half then he did his job

ComstockLode
12-20-2004, 12:56 PM
Good lord man, it is not Dunta's job to shut down the run even though he comes up and makes stop sometimes his job is to be out in the secondary stopping passes and picking of balls and thats what he's been doing lately. I think you're trying to say we need another playmaker in the front 7 to stop the run.

We're not saying Dunta is goin to do that for us, were just saying he makes plays in the secondary with and occasional sack. You are saying you want another playmaker to stop the run and pressure the QB am i correct?

YES! I am saying we do not have a playmaker who can be all over the field and do pretty much everything. That would mean a LB....

And since you think we apparently have a playmaker in our front seven also, I was just wondering why is our defense ranked in the bottom 1/4 in the league? Can we not accept that the Texans are below average on defense?

Have one of the worst if not the worst pass rushing team in the NFL?

I am not suggesting Dunta should do all that, I am saying there is only so much Dunta Robinson can do. He is a corner.... And I was pointing out that our defense is so pathetic, that we depend on a corner to make sacks....

Nobody can do all of that. By your definition, there are no playmakers.

I was explaining, that none of those Dunta Robinson is able to do. There is only so much he can do. Unless we throw Ronnie Lott out there at safety, no defensive back can do these things.

At the linebacker position in the 3-4, you can stop the run, drop into pass coverage, and give the defense the much needed pressure on the QB. That was the only point I was trying to make, nothing less, nothing more.

astrofan
12-20-2004, 12:58 PM
ComstockLode
Longhorn

that's all you need to know :bag:

ComstockLode
12-21-2004, 12:32 AM
ComstockLode
Longhorn

that's all you need to know :bag:

I never claimed that I wasnt a homer fan :listening: