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Vinny
12-15-2004, 02:10 AM
...And for good reason. I for one am glad our upper Management is going to stay the course. Click the link (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/2948292) for the entire article.

...If you thought wholesale changes were on the way, you're going to be disappointed. There apparently won't be a single significant change on the coaching staff or in the front office. Don't expect any flashy free-agent signings, either. "We're not one player away," general manager Charley Casserly said. "We have to keep making good, steady progress."...

...The Cleveland Browns have already torn up their blueprint twice and are working on a third.

The Carolina Panthers went to the NFC Championship Game in their second season but lost their top three football people before the start of their fourth year.

The Jacksonville Jaguars got anxious and spent their way into the playoffs. Then the salary cap forced massive cuts, and the Jags now are in danger of missing the postseason for a fifth straight year.

Even in a 5-8 season, the Texans are getting close. Sunday's nine-point loss was their largest margin of defeat in their last 14 home games.

They lost to the Vikings because they couldn't convert a third-and-two play in overtime. They failed to convert another third-and-two with the game on the line against the Colts. They lost to the Packers on the final play of the game.

All of the Texans' losses — except to Detroit — have come against teams that could be headed to the playoffs.

Grid
12-15-2004, 03:46 AM
now THAT was a good article. Amazing how much better you can feel just by having the coaches say "yah we hear you and we understand where you are coming from"

I still am not sold on everything. I think SOME coaching changes would be a good idea. Like Joe Pendry for example. We have a barely capable Oline that needs guidance and we have a 1st year oline coach. We dont need our coaching staff growing up with the players.

Anyway.. here are some great and not so great quotes.

Don't expect any flashy free-agent signings

poo

They hear you muttering out there. They know you're getting anxious. They know you wanted to see more progress. They know you wonder about David Carr and about the offensive play-calling.

its just good to know they arent oblivious.

"I know exactly what wins in this league," Capers said. "We're going to get there."

I like that a helluva lot better than "we need to execute". Least this is showing some confidence.

If you've got questions about the offense, so do they. If you wonder why the defense hasn't made more big plays, they're right there with you

again, nice to know.

They know they need better linebackers and maybe a young cornerback

Definatly on the LBs, I think the CB can wait another season.. Unless Rolle falls into our laps.. but i dont see that happening.

Carr and Palmer have become adjoined at the hip by fans who believe neither is as good as advertised. Let's give them both another season.

twice he mentiones "another season".... if the press is saying it too, then i wonder if the 5 year plan has even an inkling of a chance if we dont really show improvement next season. Sounds like year 4 better be good or we get someone else.

He has an unshakable vision. He wants to run the ball and play smash-mouth football. He'd rather be the Steelers than the Eagles

YEEEESSSSSS!!!!!!!! this quote just MADE the article for me. Capers for president! get that man a running back!


He'd probably like to add a big running back and another impact wide receiver during the offseason. The offensive line will also be evaluated.

Ronnie Brown? Another impact WR.. hmm.. anyone gonna be available in free agency? And thank god for some Oline evaluation. Im a big supporter of the change to zone blocking.. and if it really can work I hope we stick with it. But at the behest of others ive been looking at some other zone blocking lines.. and our guys are like 30-50 pounds heavier than the olinemen on that line. Makes me really wonder if we DONT have the personel for that kind of scheme.


But the Texans' first priority is adding stars to the defensive front seven. Then they would be convinced that these close losses will become victories.

hmm.. ok.. ..hmm

So, big RB, impact WR, and a star or two for the front seven.. but no flashy FA pickups? I hope Casserly plans on pulling some 1st rounders out of his rear then. Good luck getting an impact WR outside of the second round. Heck.. may be hard outside of the first round with this draft. I only know of 2 big bodied RBs coming out in this draft worth looking at, and Brown is the only one that looks really promising.. he will be a high 1st rounder(the other is Eric Shelton from Louisville.. assuming he comes out. I suppose Kay Jay would be one too, but he is a bit old for a rookie RB). And stars for the front seven? That could possibly be done in the second third and fourth.. but to get a REAL star which is what we need.. it would have to be a 1st rounder.

So we either need to come up with 3 first rounders (yah right).. or make at least ONE flashy FA signing.

hell.. whatever.. im still high on him wanting to make us like the Steelers :). I love how the steelers play.

Ibar_Harry
12-15-2004, 04:05 AM
Again I will say why did they draft Carr. They want to run the ball and to hell with passing. Again, I say that because Carr's forte is not handing off the ball to a running back. Vinny would say he doesn't even fake well. If you buy the line they are giving you, I think you might like a Brooklyn Bridge offer. If the next three games are excellent examples of what we have seen so far this season, then I think you might be surprised at what happens. I think this article is the kiss of death for Capers. Someone is feeling the heat or you wouldn't see an article like this. They say they hear what the fans are saying, but are they really. They always have an excuse for not doing something. I think this is what the players have been eluding too also. The team is flat over coached. No one knows what the H,,,,,,,,, they are doing on any given play. They are frozen stiff with coaching wisdom.

ThaShark316
12-15-2004, 04:53 AM
I said this to my dad a few days ago...Johnson,another big play WR (I WISH BENNETT WAS A FREE AGENT!!) and Gaffney would kill opposing defenses. A big RB? hmmmm i dunno who,it'll be interesting to see who they get,if anyone. About the Defensive stars...I wish,I wish and oh yeah,I wish. Although I hate the conservative play-calling,I don't want Palmer/Capers gone...Maybe if we were a team that had a certain winning tradition...maybe i'd want a change,but now? That's an emphatic NO!! With the 3-4 (My favorite defense),I just think if it were a lil more aggressive,the D would be better...but our Takeaways would decrease,on the flip side,sacks would go up (a la Pittsburgh). I still think a 3-4/4-3 switch could actually help the defense.

Ok,rant over

-Tha Shark

rhc564
12-15-2004, 05:42 AM
"Hey,Capers," can you give us an idea of when??

This article is depressing and pretty much says the first 3 years have
not built the foundation we were promise, as Casserly and Capers want
new players at--

-defensive line
-linebacker
-cornerback

-offensive line
-running back
-wide receiver

Many board members bring up the valid point that 'new' players need time
to fit in before they can make a major postive contribution-- if so, in light
of the many posisitions we need new personnel at, what are Capers and
Casserly really hinting at but not wanting to say?

I get the feeling that our time frame to be a winning team--let alone a
playoff team-- just got extended... :thud:

Grid
12-15-2004, 05:59 AM
I seriously doubt it. That article eluded to next season a couple of times. I think next season we will be expecting results.."or else"

Hell.. even McNair said in an interview earlier this year that we are a more capable team and should be able to go 8-8.. or something to that effect anyway. SO.. I think that if we dont post a winning record next year.. we will be looking at coaching changes.

If not.. then I think we will start to see our valuable players jumping ship when their contract expires.. which im sure will also lead to quick coaching changes.

The only way I can see our staff posting another losing record and getting away with it.. is if we lose with alot of heart :P.. similar to the last two seasons, but playing better at the same time. That at least would show improvement, and the players buying into what the coaches are selling. If we have a losing record and the same lack of heart we have had this year.. Capers is gonna be a D coordinator again. And I wouldnt be surprised to see Fangio and Palmers go with him.. and a complete changing of the guard for our "new beginning"

I hope Capers pulls it off though.. I dont WANT to start over.. starting over is something you do 10 years down the road when your stars get old and retire.. starting over again would mean another few seasons to get on track, then a couple seasons of winning records, then another little rebuilding stage before we REALLY get to where we want to be. Not only that but I WANT to be the Steelers hehe :). If i could slap the Steelers in Texans uniforms id be a happy man.

nunusguy
12-15-2004, 08:18 AM
"During a 23-14 loss to Indianapolis, Carr didn't throw a single deep ball."

Still difficult for me to understand.

"Even in a 5-8 season, the Texans are getting close. Sunday's nine-point loss was their largest margin of defeat in their last 14 home games."

They gotta be kidding, in their third season they are reduced to bragging about margin of loss in home games. I think I understand why they don't want
to touch the subject of margin of loss on the road. It takes a calculator.


Here's the bottom line: unless they win 2 of these last 3 games I don't think they can make a cogent case that they've shown even slight progress from
year 2 to year 3. So just what is it about going from year 3 to year 4 that
they see a potential in us making this quantum leap from being a less than average team to a contender ? We won't be drafting as high after this season as we were in the first 2 and, like everyone else, we're on the verge of having cap issues for the first time.

Marcus
12-15-2004, 08:43 AM
There is another line in that article that needs repeating.
Change is not the same as progress. Unless teams have hired incompetents — and the Texans haven't — the best course is to allow people to execute their plan. Otherwise, you're like the Washington Redskins. You start over every summer and never get anywhere.

This isn't what you wanted to hear, is it?

I'm not disappointed with the article, but I'm very disappointed with the response to the article.

This obvious lack of patience can be forgiven if you're one of the youngins that weren't around during the Oiler days. But if you're one of those ex-Oiler fans like me, then obviously you've forgotten how your beloved Bud Adams delivered all those 1-15 and 3-13 seasons by changing the coaching staff every year. Funny how he didn't wise up until he moved the team to Tennessee.

But then, maybe some of you like the way they run the Redskins. idonno:

HJam72
12-15-2004, 08:48 AM
So, big RB, impact WR, and a star or two for the front seven.. but no flashy FA pickups? I hope Casserly plans on pulling some 1st rounders out of his rear then. Good luck getting an impact WR outside of the second round. Heck.. may be hard outside of the first round with this draft. I only know of 2 big bodied RBs coming out in this draft worth looking at, and Brown is the only one that looks really promising.. he will be a high 1st rounder(the other is Eric Shelton from Louisville.. assuming he comes out. I suppose Kay Jay would be one too, but he is a bit old for a rookie RB). And stars for the front seven? That could possibly be done in the second third and fourth.. but to get a REAL star which is what we need.. it would have to be a 1st rounder.

So we either need to come up with 3 first rounders (yah right).. or make at least ONE flashy FA signing.

hell.. whatever.. im still high on him wanting to make us like the Steelers :). I love how the steelers play.

I believe they were saying that Capers wants to focus on the front 7 of the defense in this next draft (and maybe FA). The other stuff, like WR, RB, etc., was, I believe just saying what he would LIKE to have. In other words, what he wishes he could go out and get this offseason, but knows he'll have to wait AT LEAST another year. He's looking at drafting front 7 on D.

I think the O-line needs attention, but I'm afraid that that will mean new players once again learning the zone blocking scheme, so I don't know.

Also, there is, in fact, an insinuation that they know they better do better next year, but we're not talking AFC Championship here. I think they mean that next year may be a 9-7 year, so don't give up on them just yet. It may mean playoffs, but not real far into them.

Someone mentioned that the last game was not something to take any pride in at all and that Capers should never say anything positive about it, but you have to remember that Payton Manning is setting records, man. That guy may go down as the best ever. Think about that. Montana, Marino, Elway, Unitas, Bart Starr, Young, Staubach, Stabler, Farve, that guy from the 70's Steelers whom I ALWAYS remember but can't ever remember his stupid name, etc., etc. He may just outdo them all. They're calling him the smartest QB ever and they're right. Holding him to 23 points is pretty darn good for a 3rd year team.

Take notice, though that he did say he would LIKE a better RB. DD may be a starter again next year, but who knows when he'll get relegated to 3rd down back.

The thing about the Steelers got me too. I know this is out of left field, but I'd like to see Jerome Bettis on this team right now, so we can really find out how much he's "....got left in the tank."

infantrycak
12-15-2004, 09:08 AM
Again I will say why did they draft Carr. They want to run the ball and to hell with passing. Again, I say that because Carr's forte is not handing off the ball to a running back. Vinny would say he doesn't even fake well. If you buy the line they are giving you, I think you might like a Brooklyn Bridge offer. If the next three games are excellent examples of what we have seen so far this season, then I think you might be surprised at what happens. I think this article is the kiss of death for Capers. Someone is feeling the heat or you wouldn't see an article like this. They say they hear what the fans are saying, but are they really. They always have an excuse for not doing something. I think this is what the players have been eluding too also. The team is flat over coached. No one knows what the H,,,,,,,,, they are doing on any given play. They are frozen stiff with coaching wisdom.

Wow, yet another good example of having a pet theory (or is that diatribe) and reading its confirmation into every piece of information that passes by.

Sure they're frozen stiff with coaching wisdom when Wand was getting treated like a turnstyle, Carr was clearly thinking about Palmer's last comments to him as he took two steps back and got waylaid for the 3rd time by Freeney, I am sure Sharper was puzzling over a technique tip from Fangio when he decided he doesn't need to wrap up tackles anymore and I am sure Walker was paralyzed with thought from Fangio's instruction to hit Manning hard while he played patticakes with the Colts OL all day. Riiiigghhtt.

HJam72
12-15-2004, 09:21 AM
Trying to draft a star QB is not a mistake, no matter what your offensive tendencies will be. They want to pass. They just couldn't. I had a problem with them not passing a lot at one time earlier this season, but, at that time, they had adequate (not great) pass protection, Carr was hitting Johnson, and every time they ran the ball, it was pathetic. I figured why run it at all? All of their ability at that time was in the passing game, so I wanted them to pass the freaking ball, lol. If you can run successfully....good, do it! I see the perfect offense as one that runs 50% of the time and passes 50% of the time, getting 150 yds. rushing and 400 yds. passing (not even yardage passing and rushing). Remember, this is the perfect offense. Every coach is going to want to pass at least some of the time. Certainly more than what they did successfully in this last game. Every coach rightfully wants a star QB. It NEVER hurts.

TheOgre
12-15-2004, 09:36 AM
I really don't see how one offseason can turn us into a Super Bowl contender. We might be a playoff team, but we need at least two offseasons to get the talent on our team we need to be consistently great.

Cincinnatikid
12-15-2004, 11:54 AM
This team does need some changes but it is not as far off as you all think. The two lines need a little help, but on offense they are finally run blocking, so maybe a little more time and the pass blocking will come. A couple new guys wouldnt hurt. The Dline needs some help, and a rookie can play right away on the line because there arent really any new techniques or anything they have to adjust to in the NFL. Plus, Payne is playing well again. Linebackers, they need someone in the middle, and maybe Wong will be able to slide over there. They have Peek and Babin on the outside which is fine. DB's are pretty good, maybe another CB or a hard hitting safety. Receivers, they dont really need much. They have three, Johnson Gaffney and Armstrong. Running back needs some help but we all know that. This team is not far off in terms of talent, they just need to execute and the coaches need to let them loose. They need to take chances on offense, and teach carr how to beat a cover 2. They need to let the defense play, get rid of all the zone, trust the CBs and let the LBs blitz (and some cornerback/saftey blitzes). They arent in as bad of shape as everyone thinks

Fiddy
12-15-2004, 11:57 AM
The Texans are on a four year plan and that is what the organization has said from day one so I am willing to wait cause it is only year 3...

pek281
12-15-2004, 12:05 PM
I agree to "stay the course".

I remember way back when, when the Texans were introduced to us, owner McNair said he envisioned a four year plan of making the playoffs. That plan envisioned us being very strong on both lines, but injuries, etc, etc threw us a curve-ball on that.

Witha strong draft, some off-season free agent moves, improvements on the lines, I think we have a realistic chance of being competitive next year with the staff we have in place.

(Now that I've read ALL posts, I see I just repeated what Fiddy said)

OzzO
12-15-2004, 12:19 PM
...But then, maybe some of you like the way they run the Redskins. idonno:

BOO YAH!!! Owned!!! :heh:

Thanks for the link Vinny, interesting they noted other methods used by teams if fans prefer that method... yearly change, buy in, start completely over.. etc.

This article is depressing and pretty much says the first 3 years have
not built the foundation we were promise, as Casserly and Capers want
new players at--

not a foundation? QB, WR, CBs, both lines (while not quality, a start)... I thinnk it's looking for depth and / or improvement now.

El Tejano
12-15-2004, 02:30 PM
I said all along from the beginning that this a 7-9 to 8-8 team. That being said playoffs is not a word that should be used at this time. Recently, we all swallowed the harsh reality of that. Yes, play has been bad but at times it has been good this season. You have to like the fact our players are no longer accepting losses. Trust me, there are teams out there where the fans can say their team has no heart in them whatsoever. That cannot be said of our team. Two more wins gets to my expectations.

If we win the next two road games, that means we went 4-4 on the road. That is improvement. If we win all 3 games we are 8-8 going .500 in both road and home games. Still a big improvement. Point is there are still alot of ifs remaining in this season.

The Giants, Bears, Redskins, Cardinals, Bills, Browns, Raiders. They all had coaching changes and all they have done is prolong their playoff hopes and reqular season worries.

The teams that have stuck to their guns have made it through and are succeeding. As much as I hate to say it because I hate this team with all I got, the Steelers are the poster child for sticking with your coaching staff.

The front office said four years. Let's give it four years. We know this team is capable of winning and we just need for them to play like that for three more games. If the 4th year stinks, make the coaching change. But if it is better record wise these coaches should be able to stay.

Hottoddie
12-15-2004, 02:41 PM
But the Texans' first priority is adding stars to the defensive front seven. Then they would be convinced that these close losses will become victories.

I've posted this before, but this quote reaffirms my belief that they'll upgrade the DL through free agency.

Shaun Rogers (DT) of Detroit. If they don't Franchise him, I'd make a strong run at him. He went to UT & his hometown is LaPorte, Texas. If the price is right, playing in front of the hometown might convince him to sign here. Slide Payne over to LE, stick Rogers in the NT position, & we have a nice young defensive line with size, power, & speed.

If Detroit should Franchise Rogers, then we could make a run at his backup (Marcus Bell). Or, we could go after one of their starting OL, Dominic Raiola (C) & Stockar McDougle (RT). We don't really need another RT, but both are unrestricted. If backup QB is a concern, Mike McMahon is also unrestricted.

There are other available FA's, but Rogers looks to be an up & coming young star.

TexansNFL
12-15-2004, 03:03 PM
The article is amazing because of the real message that got delivered. Now we know that the Texans need a new front seven on defense, a new cornerback...on offense we need a new RB, TE, WR...so it looks that the only position that has job security is the QB...then what does that say about Casserly's decision over the past three years in building this team? Aren't we supposed to be building a nucleus of players for the future? Are we saying that we don't have good players? or is it the coaches trying to blame the players?

El Tejano
12-15-2004, 03:03 PM
Yeah, he has been impressive but who else would they Franchise if not him?

Yankee_In_TX
12-15-2004, 03:05 PM
I just wanna say LOL @ the current state of the Browns.

AndreJ
12-15-2004, 03:13 PM
Yeah i read that article in today's paper too. I planned to come one here and talk about it cause i thought it was so good, but apparently i wasn't the only one looks like a bunch of people beat me to the punch :boxing:

Hottoddie
12-15-2004, 04:30 PM
Yeah, he has been impressive but who else would they Franchise if not him?

No one that I can see, unless they consider their starting RT worthy of the Franchise tag. Tackles come at a premium on the OL, even if it's not the QB's blindside tackle.

The only reason that I can see as to why Detroit won't franchise Rogers, is that he hasn't put up the kind of numbers that a top 5 DT would put up. So, the question for them is, is he worth top 5 money? Is he worth $7-8 million per year to them, to start off? Marcus Bell might be able to step in & handle the job.

Keep in mind, Detroit has somewhere in the range of $7.2 million in available cap space.

TexansTrueFan
12-15-2004, 04:36 PM
yeah its good to hear the coaches know how we feel. Well i do expect to see some big FA moves during the off season, unless the totally have faith in our O and D-Line, which i dont. But maybe we are all just dumb and dont see that what the coaches are doing will help us in the long run !

wags
12-15-2004, 04:38 PM
The only reason that I can see as to why Detroit won't franchise Rogers, is that he hasn't put up the kind of numbers that a top 5 DT would put up. So, the question for them is, is he worth top 5 money? Is he worth $7-8 million per year to them, to start off? Marcus Bell might be able to step in & handle the job.

Rogers will be franchised. I think it's pretty much a given.

Marcus
12-15-2004, 04:52 PM
The article is amazing because of the real message that got delivered. Now we know that the Texans need a new front seven on defense, a new cornerback...on offense we need a new RB, TE, WR...so it looks that the only position that has job security is the QB...then what does that say about Casserly's decision over the past three years in building this team? Aren't we supposed to be building a nucleus of players for the future? Are we saying that we don't have good players? or is it the coaches trying to blame the players?

The article is saying . . . that they don't have the talent yet to compete with winning teams. I think that is pretty clear.

After only 3 years, that is not an indictment against the coaching staff, or Casserly. If one thinks it is, it's only a reflection of one's own impatience.

TexansTrueFan
12-15-2004, 04:58 PM
atleast we're not having coruption in the organizaton, to where both sides dont agree with the other. And than we'd be in the browns situation. I mean do you really want us to hire and fire a new coach every year as the browns and Arizona does .... :hmmm:

Marcus
12-15-2004, 05:42 PM
I mean do you really want us to hire and fire a new coach every year as the browns and Arizona does .... :hmmm:

You'd be amazed. :heh:

Ibar_Harry
12-15-2004, 08:12 PM
Three years is not every year. In fairness the 1st two years looked like the team was making progress and heading in the right direction. We ended last year on some very positive notes. We were in ball games having incurred a lot of injuries. We looked like a team who could really mature in the off season. This season, however, has been a dismal failure in many ways and, more importantly, the chemistry that we had last year has disappeared. The team is like a river barge that's lost its power source. We are headed for a big crash without any life boats.

TexanExile
12-15-2004, 09:18 PM
There is another line in that article that needs repeating.




I'm not disappointed with the article, but I'm very disappointed with the response to the article.

This obvious lack of patience can be forgiven if you're one of the youngins that weren't around during the Oiler days. But if you're one of those ex-Oiler fans like me, then obviously you've forgotten how your beloved Bud Adams delivered all those 1-15 and 3-13 seasons by changing the coaching staff every year. Funny how he didn't wise up until he moved the team to Tennessee.

But then, maybe some of you like the way they run the Redskins. idonno:

RIGHT ON. I was around for the coaching turnstiles of the Oilers, and I continue to be amazed at the people who simultaneously want to fire Chris Palmer even as they make excuses for the "young" offensive line by saying they're still learning a new scheme. Exactly what do they think will happen if another coach is brought in!?! (Side note: it is difficult to teach an undertalented guy how to play left tackle, even if you're Vince Lombardi.)

This team's just now getting to a solid footing in the NFL. I'm in total agreement that anything less than 7-9 is a sign that the team did not progress sufficiently in 2004. But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here. I see on SI.com that Capers is now one of the choices on their poll regarding the 2004 NFL coach most deserving of a pinkslip. Come on. THAT coach was Wannstedt, and he's gone. Next should be Haslett, then Holmgren. Those guys had their shot.

profan
12-15-2004, 09:27 PM
I'll reserve judgement until the end of the year. I agree with sticking to the plan, however, i would not let everyone think their set in stone. Some long range plans need minor adjustments at times.

aj.
12-17-2004, 07:55 AM
Read the last part of THIS (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/2951635) article about promoting stability.

HJam72
12-17-2004, 08:36 AM
2 coaches in 35 years. Hmmmm. Yeah, I think these guys can learn to coach in about 17.5 more years, lol.

Seriously, McNair makes a really good point there, but I bet a lot of people wish he hadn't made those extensions if we go 6-10, which is very possible. I'm surprised he didn't wait to see how we do these last 3 games, because look how bad it's been losing 5 out of the last 6, while playing a tough stretch of games. I'm not saying he should let them go, but just that this seems like a strange time to be giving them extensions.

MichaelMC
12-17-2004, 10:04 AM
WHAT??? Did I read that correctly. I think Capers makes a better DCthan HC but I think Chris palmer is WAY more conservative than I want as a HC, if we want a very conservative football team just leave Caper where he is.

TEXANS84
12-17-2004, 10:07 AM
If you read this mornings Chronicle..you would see that all the coaches have 2 more years left after this season via contract.

Marcus
12-17-2004, 10:10 AM
Last edited by infantrycak : 1 Minute Ago at 09:06 AM. Reason: Off-topic and unsubstantiated cap rant stricken

Thanks infantry. I was about to rail into him, but thankfully, you beat me to the punch.

infantrycak
12-17-2004, 10:38 AM
how is it unsubstantiated? the texans have at least $8 million to spend and in vinny's article it says casserly says the texans won't sign any top-tier FAs. unpleasaant, maybe, but completely on-topic.

Since you refuse to activate your private messages, I will explain here once. There is a thread specifically for you to explain your cap theories. Other than providing a link that the Texans had $3.3 mil in cap space before the season began and not accounting for practice squad players or players on IR you have not entertained discussion in that thread but keep on injecting it into other threads. Once again you are not providing a source for your $8 mil number. You are free to discuss this issue but do so in the appropriate thread and provide some support--FYI the coaches aren't in charge of cap management.

oh, and nice new standard, infantrycak. if i were to call for chris palmer to be fired i can start a new thread (you let about 20 people do just that this weekend) but if i want him hired you hide it.

This thread is about coaching changes--do you seriously not consider what you were suggesting a coaching change? Yeah we miss merging some threads while we are watching/at the games but there is no new or double standard.

BigWig
12-17-2004, 10:49 AM
I nominate Toro for head coach! Anyone second that nomination?

BornOrange
12-17-2004, 11:35 AM
I still am not sold on everything. I think SOME coaching changes would be a good idea. Like Joe Pendry for example. We have a barely capable Oline that needs guidance and we have a 1st year oline coach. We dont need our coaching staff growing up with the players.

Pendry has been an NFL coach for 18 seasons. This is just his first year with the Texans. Although he only spent one previous NFL season as an offensive line coach, I would think that 10 years of NFL experience as an offensive coordinator has given him some insight on how an NFL offensive line should operate.


From the Texans official site:
Joe Pendry enters his 18 th NFL season and his first in Houston, where he will coach the Texans’ interior offensive linemen.

The Texans hired Pendry this past January, reuniting him with head coach Dom Capers. Pendry served as Capers’ offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach for three seasons in Carolina (1995-97). In all, Pendry has worked for six previous NFL teams over 17 seasons, reaching the playoffs 11 times.

Pendry arrived in Houston after assisting the Southwest Missouri State football program during the 2003 season. His last NFL stop came in Washington, where he spent the 2001 season as the Redskins’ offensive line coach under Marty Schottenheimer. Pendry’s troops helped the Redskins rush for 1,948 yards, including a club-record 1,432 yards by running back Stephen Davis. Left tackle Chris Samuels was selected to his first Pro Bowl in just his second NFL season.

Pendry’s previous post was in Buffalo, where he served as the Bills’ offensive coordinator for three seasons. In Pendry’s first season, the Bills jumped from 25 th to sixth in the NFL in total offense, reaching the playoffs and sending four offensive players to the Pro Bowl. Buffalo again made the postseason in 1999, ranking 11 th in the league in offense. Under Pendry, the Bills averaged 2,041 rushing yards per season, cracking the league’s top 10 all three seasons.

In Charlotte, Pendry helped the Panthers set an NFL expansion record for wins in 1995 (seven) and then reach the NFC Championship Game in just their second season. Quarterback Kerry Collins played in the Pro Bowl and running back Anthony Johnson posted the first 1,000-yard rushing season in franchise history.

Pendry spent the 1993-94 seasons in Chicago after serving four seasons in Kansas City as Schottenheimer’s offensive coordinator. The Chiefs made the playoffs in three of Pendry’s four seasons. Pendry accompanied Schottenheimer to Kansas City from Cleveland, where he broke into the NFL as the Browns’ running backs coach. Cleveland reached two AFC Championship Games and in 1985 became the first team in NFL history to boast two 1,000-yard running backs (Earnest Byner, Kevin Mack).

Pendry, like Capers, launched his professional coaching career with the USFL’s Philadelphia Stars. He served as Philadelphia’s offensive coordinator in 1983 before becoming head coach of the Pittsburgh Maulers in 1984.

Pendry began his coaching career at his alma mater, West Virginia, in 1969. He later matriculated to Kansas State (1975), back to Morgantown for the 1976-77 seasons, then coached at Pittsburgh (1978-79) and Michigan State (1980-81). Pendry was a tight end for the Mountaineers before an injury during his sophomore season ended his career.

A native of Matheny, W. Va., Pendry and his wife, Sandi, have a son, Joe, a daughter, Jill, and three grandchildren. The couple lives in Houston.


PENDRY’S COACHING LEDGER
2004: Offensive Line (Centers/Guards), Houston Texans
2003: Coaching Consultant, Southwest Missouri State
2001: Offensive Line, Washington Redskins
1998-2000: Offensive Coordinator, Buffalo Bills
1995-97: Offensive Coordinator, Carolina Panthers
1993-94: Running Backs, Chicago Bears
1989-92: Offensive Coordinator, Kansas City Chiefs
1985-88: Running Backs, Cleveland Browns
1984: Head Coach, Pittsburgh Maulers
1983: Offensive Coordinator, Philadelphia Stars
1980-81: Offensive Coordinator, Michigan State
1979: Offensive Line, Pittsburgh
1978: Quarterbacks, Pittsburgh
1976-77: Offensive Coordinator, West Virginia
1975: Offensive Coordinator, Kansas State
1974: Offensive Line, West Virginia
1972-73: Wide Receivers, West Virginia
1971: Freshman Head Coach, West Virginia
1970: Graduate Assistant, West Virginia
1969: Student Assistant, West Virginia

MichaelMC
12-17-2004, 12:04 PM
Sounds like a good man for palmers job if you ask me...

Chance_C
12-17-2004, 12:37 PM
It will never cease to amaze me that we are not even through with year three and people want coaching changes. Oh wait, I have to get my popcorn out of the MICROWAVE. I can understand that people are frustrated. Don't you all think the players themselves are frustrated with the way THEY have played lately? I think the people that are screaming for coaching changes are the same one's that had the Texans penciled in for the playoffs. Also winning 4 out of 5 earlier in the season gave some people false hopes. I admit, I thought they were playing like a wild card team at the time. But we have been beat by some good teams lately, and people are calling for coaching changes. Not even a suitable topic at this point in time. If we're 5-8 this time next year, then we could have a logical discussion. Rome was not built in a day. And no, I'm not talking about Jim Rome.

Ibar_Harry
12-17-2004, 02:26 PM
Right now, Bob McNair could care less. Why, because he's filling the stadium. When, and if, the attendance starts dropping he will take notice. Football is not what this is all about.............

Chance_C
12-17-2004, 02:37 PM
Right now, Bob McNair could care less. Why, because he's filling the stadium. When, and if, the attendance starts dropping he will take notice. Football is not what this is all about.............

That's horse#@!%!!

Grid
12-17-2004, 03:06 PM
yes it is Chance C.. McNair has shown plenty of times in interviews that he wants this team to be a champion.

and thanks for the info BornOrange.

cuppacoffee
12-17-2004, 04:28 PM
Sounds like a good man for palmers job if you ask me...


While I am not a Palmer hater the same thought crossed my mind when I read this. One can only wonder if it crossed Capers mind when he hired Pendry.

cac :coffee:

Vinny
12-17-2004, 04:39 PM
Historically Pendry is more conservative than Palmer ever has been.

Lucky
12-17-2004, 05:23 PM
That's not fair, Vinny. Even you've admitted that the Texans are hard to watch. :)

What Ibar (and others) has failed to grasp is that Capers, Carr, & Casserly are in this together. Capers & Casserly won't survive if Carr busts. Carr might hit the road if a new coach & GM come to town and are looking for something else at the QB spot. When the swath of change takes place, its path can be devastating.

aj.
12-17-2004, 05:40 PM
That wasn't a personal attack. Being a Carr only supporter and hating on the Coaches is what it is. **** has said he doesn't view many games. I'm just calling him out on his harsh redundant opinons blaming the coaches for everything.

I'd suggest letting some of these posts run their course once in a while, or let others debate it. Maybe even bite your tongue - or your fingers in this case. Mods piling on doesn't leave a good impression of freedom to express on this board - no matter how stupid you think it is. Did you ever stop to think that others might view some of your opinions as harsh and redundant too? Just a thought - and of course nothing personal.

Ibar_Harry
12-18-2004, 04:05 AM
The following is a private Email message I received from Vinny in November of this year.

You are a good man Ibar. I find myself too harsh with you sometimes. I just wanted you to know that while I may be brutally blunt, I respect you. I know that doesn't come thru on my posts, but I find you very tolerant and people like you make me think from time to time.

I'm glad you post your thoughts here. Even if I don't agree with them. I find your disposition something I can learn from at times.

V

I hope Vinny believes this, because I think its an important message for all of us who post here. I furvently believe what I believe. I try not to degrade others for what they believe, but sometimes in the heat of battle we say things we don't mean. I truely believe we have a very big coaching problem and there are lots of statements and things coming out which I think really begin to point to this. Others do not feel that way and its important we all express are views and why. What others say is their belief and that should be alright. We all have a very different perspective of what we see. A fan has posted an interesting piece tonight on the Web about the Audibles. To me its very interesting. A lot of fans are very frustrated with this year's performance. Its not that we are loosing, its how we are loosing. Nobody was unhappy at the end of last year when we lost the close one's, because it looked like we were close and our team had tried its best to win, but a break here or there made the difference. Why with all of the injuries and replacement players did we play better at the end of last year than we are now? God bless all of you and the Texans.

aj.
12-18-2004, 05:51 AM
Why with all of the injuries and replacement players did we play better at the end of last year than we are now? We only played better in the two games at home -- we got hammered at Jax and Tampa. The Texans play well at home. The Indy game at Reliant last year was a lot like the Indy game at Reliant this year, only this year the Colts scored their TDs at the beginning of the game. Maybe that says a lot about the skills of our replacement players. Ioane, Faggins and Simmons were the three backups who started that game on defense. Except for Wiegert, the offense had all of its starters in place for the Indy game in '03.

Vinny
12-18-2004, 12:21 PM
hope Vinny believes this, because I think its an important message for all of us who post here. I furvently believe what I believe. I try not to degrade others for what they believe, but sometimes in the heat of battle we say things we don't mean.
I am nice to everyone one-on-one and I don't think anyone who deals with me via PM or in person could say I have been less than decent. I do find you to be decent people but that’s neither here nor there. I am blunt and matter-of-fact and I am quick to throw out what’s on the top of my head. That’s just me. I do take issue with this chronic coach bashing and get into it with you all the time about it so that may never change. As a general observation, fans of players that follow their favorite players from their College programs to the NFL tend to blame the coaches when their favorite players get little to no PT or do not excel like they did in College. I think that is where we butt heads.

Ibar_Harry
12-18-2004, 07:50 PM
I appreciate your feelings Vinny, but I think its fair to say you are very critical of Carr at times and I certainly understand much of what you are saying. However, is it Carr or the coaches and what they are teaching and doing? In reality its probably both. I just feel, however, that for whatever reason the coaching of this team has gone down hill big time. I hope they can make me see differently as I really would like to see the Texans put it all together.

Vinny
12-18-2004, 08:05 PM
I just talk about games & just express what I see. I don't go starting threads talking about replacing Carr. I don't even advocate replacing Carr. I will talk about poor play though. It's poor play at the position I talk most about when discussing my favorite team.

Jwwillis
12-19-2004, 01:38 AM
MAN! We need a win to keep from killin ourselves.

Deadball
12-19-2004, 03:33 AM
Read the last part of THIS (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/2951635) article about promoting stability.

In which McNair says:

"I think the greatest example is the Pittsburgh Steelers. They've had two coaches in 35 years. A year ago at this time, they were 5-8 — the exact same record we have — now they're 12-1. They've gone through some of those years, and yet they've stayed the course. There's certainly a reason why they're 12-1."

Here's the way I figure it, I'll wait'll next year if as soon as McNair sees 2 losses next year he fire's Capers and the rest of this hapless bunch of losers.

aj.
12-19-2004, 08:30 AM
Noll's first four years: 1-13, 5-9, 6-8, 11-3.

Yep, looks like that 4th year is a charm.

bckey
12-19-2004, 02:17 PM
Noll's first four years: 1-13, 5-9, 6-8, 11-3.

Yep, looks like that 4th year is a charm.


Totally different era. No free agency to speak of. No supplemental draft.

Marcus
12-19-2004, 05:00 PM
Totally different era. No free agency to speak of. No supplemental draft.

It doesn't matter one bit. Stabilty is what McNair wants for this team, and I imagine that the Steelers ownership is serving as a very good guide as to how an NFL owner should handle his team.

aj.
12-19-2004, 06:44 PM
Totally different era. No free agency to speak of. No supplemental draft.My Noll comments were a just a smidge tongue in cheek. Always look for the humor.