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TheRealJoker
06-16-2008, 05:02 PM
This is in Total Defense, you can also throw in ppg and takeaways but mainly just the overall defensive rank. Now that we've signed Colvin I think we're through with notable FA signings this offseason.

Colvin brings us a pass rushing presence opposite Mario which was the most glaring hole left that needed to be filled after the draft. He has some negative things about him however, he has played mainly LB since he's been in the NFL whereas the Texans will most likely have him play DE in passing situations. But the biggest negative is HEALTH. The Texans do not have good luck when it comes to players staying healthy but if that changes this season we are competing for the playoffs.

On defense we added:

Colvin (pass rusher), Reeves (projected to be a good fit for the system), Molden (Fred Bennet clone), Adibi (Coverage LB), and Okam (run stuffer).

Its easier to list the players we DONT expect to improve as starters given the youth and experience of our defense. Off the top of my head the only players I dont expect to make notable improvement with added experience from last year are Will Demps (he's an overachiever type who doesn't have a high ceiling imo), Dunta Robinson (injury main reason), Anthony Weaver (not a fit for our system), and Morlon Greenwood (what you see is what you get).

Other than those 4 I expect every position to be upgraded by the natural progression young players are expected to make in this league with experience. Just like Mario did from year 1 to year 2 I expect Amobi to make similar strides. We have other young players like Bennett and Diles who I feel will make progress, Bennett because of experience and Diles because of opportunity and the fact that even if he's average he's still an upgrade over what we had last season at SAM.

I now save the best for last in my analysis of the defense:

We have 2 legitimate All Pros on defense in DeMeco Ryans and Mario Williams who I fully expect to improve with yet another year in the NFL and with added talent around them. This is the year these two players will be mentioned in discussions about the best players by their position.

MY RANKING:

The Texans total defensive ranking is 9th.

I think its a realistic mark, given the improved offense and the defensive upgrades mentioned I believe we can be a top 10 defense. If the offense gives the defense time to breathe by moving the chains and not turning the ball over along with the upgrades then I think this is the year the Texans defense is top 10 in the league.

I am hoping we are # 1 85 Bears, 00 Ravens, and 02 Bucs esque though!!! :texflag:

brakos82
06-16-2008, 05:08 PM
When I saw this thread, I was thinking 9th as well. :thinking:

D-Frank
06-16-2008, 05:19 PM
13th:thisbig:

ObsiWan
06-16-2008, 06:00 PM
Not to be a downer, but while I'm glad to see us accumulating better chess pieces, we still have the same old dude - R.Smith - sitting at the board moving them around.

Until he proves to be a "chessmaster", I'm not placing any bets.

A Texan
06-16-2008, 06:03 PM
How good our defensive stats are is directly proportional to how good our running game is. See Jacksonville.

Texanmike02
06-16-2008, 08:22 PM
We'll be an above average defense who is susceptible to the pass. I think we're going to see a lot of slants run on us this year. 3 wr sets are going to give us severe problems. When we play teams with young QB's however, and those that struggle to protect the QB, we will see a glimpse into the future.

Mike

pappy
06-16-2008, 08:57 PM
We'll be an above average defense who is susceptible to the pass. I think we're going to see a lot of slants run on us this year. 3 wr sets are going to give us severe problems. When we play teams with young QB's however, and those that struggle to protect the QB, we will see a glimpse into the future.

Mike

I do think you maybe correct about the method the texans are attacked but the result will depend some on who we play and how they play . If Adibi is going to be the choice for a lb spot we will cover a lot better than you purpose especially if you put bentley on the opposite side . If we have molden as a nickel corner and bennett with reese we could be good there to , the only downer are the safety players . The expectations of a good to great defense if they can stay healthy are reasonable but a bunch depends on the offense getting it going and not having the defense play the whole game all year . I am going with a fifth place finish . :jogger:

Texanmike02
06-16-2008, 09:16 PM
I do think you maybe correct about the method the texans are attacked but the result will depend some on who we play and how they play . If Adibi is going to be the choice for a lb spot we will cover a lot better than you purpose especially if you put bentley on the opposite side . If we have molden as a nickel corner and bennett with reese we could be good there to , the only downer are the safety players . The expectations of a good to great defense if they can stay healthy are reasonable but a bunch depends on the offense getting it going and not having the defense play the whole game all year . I am going with a fifth place finish . :jogger:

There are only 4 teams in the division man.... and there's no way this is a top 5 defense yet. We're on the right track... but not there yet.

Mike

pappy
06-16-2008, 09:35 PM
There are only 4 teams in the division man.... and there's no way this is a top 5 defense yet. We're on the right track... but not there yet.

Mike

Ok so we can tell you feel different than me but just where are you predicting this defense to fall to ?:poker:

NitroGSXR
06-16-2008, 10:08 PM
If we don't get any takeaways then it doesn't really matter much how good our defense is. They have to be able to get off the field otherwise teams can just continue to pound the ball and move the chains. If opponents aren't afraid of turning the ball over, they'll go with the safe play more often than not and that doesn't change how good we are at breaking up plays. I know that sounds confusing a little bit but I really believe it really does hinge on takeaways on where our defense will finish and we're terrible there.

It makes sense to me for a team to want to play the safe route more often if they don't fear turning the football over against a defensive unit rather than going for the bigtime play all the time. That's how teams seemed to play us. It seemed like that they would rather have their runningback face off with Morlon Greenwood than trying to match up with Bennett or Dunta. Morlon will tackle them but they at least get some yards. With Dunta, it was a hit or miss but they either lost yards or gave up the big play. We also still have to figure out the Peyton project and then we should be good after that. We do face him twice a season and that plays a big factor into our stats. He's not a stat machine like Brady but a VERY VERY good football player who can get rid of the ball in a HURRY. Just probably one of the smartest football players to play the game.

I'm in no way claiming to be a football expert. Just a regular fan giving his personal opinion. I, of course, could be VERY wrong here.

I won't be giving out any rankings though. I don't really care where we're ranked. I just want to win and play some good football games. We'll blow some. We'll win some.

SOLIS
06-16-2008, 10:33 PM
Predict the Texans statistical finish

@ TRJ
That's a great discussion topic. Here's a little factoid I dug up at NFL.com...

Last year the Texans ranked 21th in total team Sacks with 31. That is roughly 1.9 sacks a game. If the Texans revamped defense, can average just a half a sack more per game we would be looking at roughly 38.5 sacks - which would have been good enough for a top-ten finish when going by last years sack totals. Of course, keep in mind, that's top-ten in total sacks. If we were to increase the average sacks from 1.9 to 2.7 (that's still averaging less than a sack a game) we would be looking at a top five finish (again based on last years sack totals).

In as far as how that pertains to the Texans total defense for next year? Well, high sack totals don't necessarily equate to top ranked defenses - as the neither the Steelers, Bucs, or Colts were in the top-ten total sacks. But if the Texans are figuring to have a better pass rush, which I'm betting they will, that will increase quarterback pressure - as the QB pressure goes up, so do the opportunity for interceptions - and that's a department the Texans need to improve in. Big time. They ranked dead last in 2007.

If the Texans have any chance of breaking the top ten in total defense, the interception total is going to have to higher. Until they prove that they can do that, their total team defense is going to suffer.

With the uncertainties in the secondary, (not saying I doubt they'll perform, we just don't know how well) I can only give them a 14th - but on the brightside of that assessment - that's a ten team improvement.

I really want to revist this topic about six games into the season. Great post TRJ.

ObsiWan
06-16-2008, 11:48 PM
@ TRJ
That's a great discussion topic. Here's a little factoid I dug up at NFL.com...

If the Texans have any chance of breaking the top ten in total defense, the interception total is going to have to higher. Until they prove that they can do that, their total team defense is going to suffer.

I really want to revist this topic about six games into the season. Great post TRJ.

not just INTs but total turnover ratio.
I love that Kubiak & co. preached that all thru OTAs.

We've got some improving youngsters and some tantilizing new pieces to the defense. I want to see how they jell together and, just as importantly, how Richard Smith puts them to use.

I'll give you a predict after T/C ...for what its worth

SOLIS
06-16-2008, 11:52 PM
not just INTs but total turnover ratio.
I love that Kubiak & co. preached that all thru OTAs.

We've got some improving youngsters and some tantilizing new pieces to the defense. I want to see how they jell together and, just as importantly, how Richard Smith puts them to use.

I'll give you a predict after T/C ...for what its worth

Well - I have to check, but I think the defense was 10th in the league in fumble recoveries - which isn't too shabby. I can live with that - but being dead last in interceptions is totally unacceptable.

ObsiWan
06-17-2008, 12:06 AM
we're tied for 10th with Seattle & Pittsburgh

but unlike us, the other two teams had positive T/O ratios

SOLIS
06-17-2008, 12:18 AM
tied for 10th with Seattle & Pittsburgh

but unlike us, the other two teams had positive T/O ratios

The ratio was skewed because of the lack of interceptions and the offense's penchant for fumbling.

But right on. So if that number can stay relatively unchanged, and we buy the secondary some stickum (I'm looking at you Demps), we should be poised to climb the total defense ladder, as it were.

The fact that 'The Fred' showed real promise as a rookie (and in limited playing time no less) is enough to keep me optimistic about an improvement in the interception totals. Here's hoping Ray Rhodes can work his mojo.

DocBar
06-17-2008, 12:23 AM
@ TRJ
That's a great discussion topic. Here's a little factoid I dug up at NFL.com...

Last year the Texans ranked 21th in total team Sacks with 31. That is roughly 1.9 sacks a game. If the Texans revamped defense, can average just a half a sack more per game we would be looking at roughly 38.5 sacks - which would have been good enough for a top-ten finish when going by last years sack totals. Of course, keep in mind, that's top-ten in total sacks. If we were to increase the average sacks from 1.9 to 2.7 (that's still averaging less than a sack a game) we would be looking at a top five finish (again based on last years sack totals).
In as far as how that pertains to the Texans total defense for next year? Well, high sack totals don't necessarily equate to top ranked defenses - as the neither the Steelers, Bucs, or Colts were in the top-ten total sacks. But if the Texans are figuring to have a better pass rush, which I'm betting they will, that will increase quarterback pressure - as the QB pressure goes up, so do the opportunity for interceptions - and that's a department the Texans need to improve in. Big time. They ranked dead last in 2007.

If the Texans have any chance of breaking the top ten in total defense, the interception total is going to have to higher. Until they prove that they can do that, their total team defense is going to suffer.

With the uncertainties in the secondary, (not saying I doubt they'll perform, we just don't know how well) I can only give them a 14th - but on the brightside of that assessment - that's a ten team improvement.

I really want to revist this topic about six games into the season. Great post TRJ.
How do 1.9 sacks a game equal less than 1 per game? Are you saying going from 1.9 to 2.7 is less than ADDING 1 sack per game? That seems doable if Smith can ever get around to playing to our players strengths, which has been sorely lacking so far.

SOLIS
06-17-2008, 12:38 AM
How do 1.9 sacks a game equal less than 1 per game? Are you saying going from 1.9 to 2.7 is less than ADDING 1 sack per game? That seems doable if Smith can ever get around to playing to our players strengths, which has been sorely lacking so far.

Right, let me clarify that - it would be adding less than a sack a game to last year's 1.9 sack a game average.

In related news - fractions/decimals are always in a recipe for a f'ed up post.

But yeah - I think it is very doable. Whether the .8 sack a game comes from a revitalized Weaver, a hungry Diles, or a non-gimpy Colvin (you know I had to take my shot) it's very possible. Hell, nothing says that Mario won't be able to improve on last years total either...

Texanmike02
06-17-2008, 01:03 AM
Ok so we can tell you feel different than me but just where are you predicting this defense to fall to ?:poker:

hmm.... Well I said above average so somewhere in the 10-15 range. But honestly it hard to say. Is Reeves better than advertised? If either Reeves or Molden steps up... we could do better... But honestly I think we'll make some mistakes in the secondary.


Rather than taking a random stab at it and picking a number from a hat... I'll just say above average.

Mike

dalemurphy
06-17-2008, 01:12 AM
hmm.... Well I said above average so somewhere in the 10-15 range. But honestly it hard to say. Is Reeves better than advertised? If either Reeves or Molden steps up... we could do better... But honestly I think we'll make some mistakes in the secondary.


Rather than taking a random stab at it and picking a number from a hat... I'll just say above average.

Mike

Well, Reeves is better than VHutchins. He's a more gifted athlete and has been more productive. I'm not sure why Reeves has such a bad rap. He was pretty good for Dallas last year. I hate Dallas and when Newman went down injured early, I thought they were in a lot of trouble. Reeves held down the position very well, I thought.

dalemurphy
06-17-2008, 01:24 AM
If we don't get any takeaways then it doesn't really matter much how good our defense is. They have to be able to get off the field otherwise teams can just continue to pound the ball and move the chains. If opponents aren't afraid of turning the ball over, they'll go with the safe play more often than not and that doesn't change how good we are at breaking up plays. I know that sounds confusing a little bit but I really believe it really does hinge on takeaways on where our defense will finish and we're terrible there.

It makes sense to me for a team to want to play the safe route more often if they don't fear turning the football over against a defensive unit rather than going for the bigtime play all the time. That's how teams seemed to play us. It seemed like that they would rather have their runningback face off with Morlon Greenwood than trying to match up with Bennett or Dunta. Morlon will tackle them but they at least get some yards. With Dunta, it was a hit or miss but they either lost yards or gave up the big play. We also still have to figure out the Peyton project and then we should be good after that. We do face him twice a season and that plays a big factor into our stats. He's not a stat machine like Brady but a VERY VERY good football player who can get rid of the ball in a HURRY. Just probably one of the smartest football players to play the game.

I'm in no way claiming to be a football expert. Just a regular fan giving his personal opinion. I, of course, could be VERY wrong here.

I won't be giving out any rankings though. I don't really care where we're ranked. I just want to win and play some good football games. We'll blow some. We'll win some.

:fans:


Defensive rankings are kind of silly actually. The official rankings are based on total yards- which is a very incomplete stat. Too many variables affect total yards allowed...

1. If you're a high scoring offense, your defense will give up more yards because the opposing team will feel compelled to take more chances and throw downfield more often.

2. A team that's excellent versus the run will give up more YPG than a team that struggles against the run because the passing game simply garners more yards.

3. An aggressive defense that creates a lot of turnovers will be more apt to give up big plays as well, which will lead to more YPG.

4. A very good team will have large leads late in games and play prevent defense which will allow teams to pad Yardage statistics.

5. A very bad offensive team will likely give up fewer YPG because the other team will gameplan to protect the ball and play conservatively in order to win, thus padding the statistics of the defense. The best example of this is Bill Parcell's first season with Dallas. Quincy Carter was QB, Troy Hambrick was RB, and the offense was awful. That defense finished #1 in the NFL in YPG- and certainly they were nowhere near the best.


If our defense is able to get off the field on third down, create turnovers, and limit points scored, then it's a very good defense. I could care less how many yards per game it gives up.

Goldensilence
06-17-2008, 01:42 AM
Well, Reeves is better than VHutchins. He's a more gifted athlete and has been more productive. I'm not sure why Reeves has such a bad rap. He was pretty good for Dallas last year. I hate Dallas and when Newman went down injured early, I thought they were in a lot of trouble. Reeves held down the position very well, I thought.

I am inclined to agree really about Reeves. I think some of it is an anti-anything Dallas skew and who he is tagged to at least temporarily replace.

FWIW some people should take what they are saying about Brown going against MW making him better. Reeves was lined up against TO all last year.

Overall we have some nice pieces being brought together and I don't think it can be said Smith doesn't have a good palette to work with like before. I'm not asking for a masterpiece but at the same time I don't want something that looks like paint by numbers.

Going to say 10 on the spot.

PHAROAH
06-17-2008, 09:50 AM
[QUOTE=TheRealJoker;938599]This is in Total Defense, you can also throw in ppg and takeaways but mainly just the overall defensive rank. Now that we've signed Colvin I think we're through with notable FA signings this offseason.

Colvin brings us a pass rushing presence opposite Mario which was the most glaring hole left that needed to be filled after the draft. He has some negative things about him however, he has played mainly LB since he's been in the NFL whereas the Texans will most likely have him play DE in passing situations. But the biggest negative is HEALTH. QUOTE] I disagree with you on him being mainly a Linebacker his best two seasons were at the DE position where he registered 10.5 Sacks in Chicago where he was drafted. I do agree with you we have the potential to break into the top 10 defenses in NFL and that all depends on how well the secondary plays.

HOU-TEX
06-17-2008, 09:56 AM
I disagree with you on him being mainly a Linebacker his best two seasons were at the DE position where he registered 10.5 Sacks in Chicago where he was drafted. I do agree with you we have the potential to break into the top 10 defenses in NFL and that all depends on how well the secondary plays.

:dontknowa He was a LB for the Bears who occasionally put his hand down.

There are links in this thread. Read them

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50822

TheRealJoker
06-17-2008, 12:41 PM
:dontknowa He was a LB for the Bears who occasionally put his hand down.

There are links in this thread. Read them

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50822

:secret:

Texan_Bill
06-17-2008, 01:14 PM
:dontknowa He was a LB for the Bears who occasionally put his hand down.

There are links in this thread. Read them

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50822


:dontknowa He was a LB for the Patriots? who occasionally put his hand down.

There are links in this thread. Read them

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50822


:whip:

HOU-TEX
06-17-2008, 01:21 PM
:dontknowa He was a LB for the Patriots? who occasionally put his hand down.

There are links in this thread. Read them

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50822


:whip:

:um: I was quoting the other poster who stated he was a DE in Chicago.

What have I told you about smokin tree at lunch time?? :)

Texan_Bill
06-17-2008, 01:29 PM
:um: I was quoting the other poster who stated he was a DE in Chicago.

What have I told you about smokin tree at lunch time?? :)

Wha??? :um:

HOU-TEX
06-17-2008, 01:35 PM
Wha??? :um:

Huh??:confused:

Texecutioner
06-17-2008, 01:56 PM
We'll be an above average defense who is susceptible to the pass. I think we're going to see a lot of slants run on us this year. 3 wr sets are going to give us severe problems. When we play teams with young QB's however, and those that struggle to protect the QB, we will see a glimpse into the future.

Mike

I think that this is a good prediction right here.

The Texans will have problems in the secondary for sure. The pass rush should be better which will help, but how well they'll be able to hide a poor secondary is the question.

I really think that the Texans should make some offers for Lito Sheppard. I know his asking price is a little high, but he is a proven player and we need another CB really bad right now. We'll end up trying to get one in the first or second round of the draft next year most likely, so why not trade a pick or two for a guy that has been to two pro bowls and is still pretty young? At least you know what you're getting, instead of a rookie who will have growing pains.

76Texan
06-17-2008, 04:27 PM
I am inclined to agree really about Reeves. I think some of it is an anti-anything Dallas skew and who he is tagged to at least temporarily replace.

FWIW some people should take what they are saying about Brown going against MW making him better. Reeves was lined up against TO all last year.

Overall we have some nice pieces being brought together and I don't think it can be said Smith doesn't have a good palette to work with like before. I'm not asking for a masterpiece but at the same time I don't want something that looks like paint by numbers.

Going to say 10 on the spot.Between Faggins (06) and Reeves last year, I don't know who was worse. And I'm inclined to say Reeves was. At the moment I don't have my notes from the seven games I reviewed, but if y'all want me to, I'll get it later.

As far as our D, I believe it will "look" better both on papers and on the field.
Various reasons:
Special team should be as solid, if not better. We have insurance in Slaton.
With good field position, the offense can operate better than otherwise.
On offense, the improvement in the running game will help us stay on the field longer, avoid too many third and long, and be more efficient in the redzone.
I expect us not to have to come back from as many deep holes as last year.
All this will help the defense.

By the same token, the addition of Okam to the rotation and the addition of all the speed in the LB corp will help us defend the run better.
That leads to more third and long situation for the opponents.
All of that will help the defensive backfield as well as increase the sack totals.

A top ten finish is quite possible, IMO.

threetoedpete
06-18-2008, 09:14 AM
I think that this is a good prediction right here.

The Texans will have problems in the secondary for sure. The pass rush should be better which will help, but how well they'll be able to hide a poor secondary is the question.

I really think that the Texans should make some offers for Lito Sheppard. I know his asking price is a little high, but he is a proven player and we need another CB really bad right now. We'll end up trying to get one in the first or second round of the draft next year most likely, so why not trade a pick or two for a guy that has been to two pro bowls and is still pretty young? At least you know what you're getting, instead of a rookie who will have growing pains.

ah no. Don't spend your move up ammo a year away from when you are going to need it. Have you even previewed the '09 draft class yet ? Very bad idea.
Whole board of elite young OLBs, DEs, O-linemen... a monster FS, & Mr. Wells. Not a good idea at all. Robinson will be back in November and ready to be resigned. Or are you suggesting we cut Robinson outright and Give 'ol Litto Robinson's money ?

110 yards rushing per game.... can the o-line consistently keep the d-line fresh and sipping gator aide on the bench. Will they be good enough they go 180 degrees and use the rush to set up the pass? If we do that, the defense will meander into the top twelve.

Texecutioner
06-18-2008, 11:39 AM
ah no. Don't spend your move up ammo a year away from when you are going to need it. Have you even previewed the '09 draft class yet ? Very bad idea.
Whole board of elite young OLBs, DEs, O-linemen... a monster FS, & Mr. Wells. Not a good idea at all. Robinson will be back in November and ready to be resigned. Or are you suggesting we cut Robinson outright and Give 'ol Litto Robinson's money ?

110 yards rushing per game.... can the o-line consistently keep the d-line fresh and sipping gator aide on the bench. Will they be good enough they go 180 degrees and use the rush to set up the pass? If we do that, the defense will meander into the top twelve.

Where did you get that I would want to cut Robinson? In this day and age you need several good CB's. And how do you know that Robinson is even going to come back and be completely the same guy? I sure hope he is, but there has been reports that his injury was so bad that he might not be quite as athletic or agile. I'm pretty confident that he will be the same guy, but again it isn't a guarantee. He isn't expected to come back until like week 10 anyway. That could end up being week 12 or 13 even. Right now our strongest CB is probably Bennett who barely played a few games last year and palyed really well, but he is going to have some extremely strong challenges this year.

I have no probelm giving up a 2nd round pick for a proven Pro Bowl CB that is still pretty young. He is proven, and many of the supposed studs that you find early in the draft end up being busts so I am more in tuned to invseting into a proven palyer rather than a player with hype. Sheppard and Robinson could end up being a great duo for many years to come with Bennett along as the 3rd guy working in the zone as well against spread offense formations. A lot of teams are doing that now days, and that is why 3 CB's that can play is becoming more of a NEED than a WANT.

dalemurphy
06-18-2008, 12:21 PM
Where did you get that I would want to cut Robinson? In this day and age you need several good CB's. And how do you know that Robinson is even going to come back and be completely the same guy? I sure hope he is, but there has been reports that his injury was so bad that he might not be quite as athletic or agile. I'm pretty confident that he will be the same guy, but again it isn't a guarantee. He isn't expected to come back until like week 10 anyway. That could end up being week 12 or 13 even. Right now our strongest CB is probably Bennett who barely played a few games last year and palyed really well, but he is going to have some extremely strong challenges this year.

I have no probelm giving up a 2nd round pick for a proven Pro Bowl CB that is still pretty young. He is proven, and many of the supposed studs that you find early in the draft end up being busts so I am more in tuned to invseting into a proven palyer rather than a player with hype. Sheppard and Robinson could end up being a great duo for many years to come with Bennett along as the 3rd guy working in the zone as well against spread offense formations. A lot of teams are doing that now days, and that is why 3 CB's that can play is becoming more of a NEED than a WANT.


Well, Texan early round draft picks since the regime change haven't been busts. Also, Sheppard has had a ton of injury problems the last 3 seasons.. that's why Phillie is moving on without him, probably.

The team feels better about the combination of Bennett, Reeves, DRobinson, Molden, and next season's 2nd round pick. I think that's reasonable.

Texecutioner
06-18-2008, 12:31 PM
Yes, he's had injury problems but nothing major. NOthing to be real fearful of.

Again, we don't know exactly how Robinson is going to rebound after this injury though. He probably will be the same guy but there is some question that he won't be. Hopefeully he will be.

Now Bennett, I'm excited about for the future.

Now Reeves was a waste of a signing. That was like taking Phillip Buchanon all over again. Cowboys fans were extremely happy to get rid of that guy, and he was always getting burnt.

As for the young rookie, he's unproven and he isn't expected to be a stand out player by any strong consensus. I'm not saying he can't or won't, but right now there is no reason to believe that he is the next answer at CB for eyars to come. We'll have to wait and see on him. If Robinson was healthy right now, the guy would probably not see the field much at all.

Again, Lito has had a few injuries but nothing major. I'll take a young guy that has been to two pro bowls early in his career any day. Last time I checked the Texans don't have any CB's on their roster that have made the pro bowl before. Yeah, I know that Robinson got shafted his rookie season and should have made it and all, but I think you get what I'm saying here. Sheppard is a proven CB in this league and could be the other guy on the side of a healthy Robinson for many years and I think between the two of them and help from Bennett as well that the Texans could have one of the best CB duo's for many years. I don't see how anyone could argue that.

Fox
06-18-2008, 02:01 PM
Sheppard wants to be paid like an elite CB because when he's healthy he can perform at that level. Problem is, as dale mentioned, he has a recurring problem with injuries that have caused him to miss significant time. While I'd love to have him on the team, I don't want to bury a boatload of cash into a guy that could very well continue to miss games, especially seeing as we're just now about to resurface out of the cap hell Casserly and Co. got us in to.

The team's been very good about making modest FA acquisitions, which has allowed us to improve without breaking the bank, letting our cap slowly come back to a point where we could afford to make a splash in FA in the next couple years. Now's not the time to pay a fortune to a perennial injury risk.

dalemurphy
06-18-2008, 02:05 PM
Yes, he's had injury problems but nothing major. NOthing to be real fearful of.

Again, we don't know exactly how Robinson is going to rebound after this injury though. He probably will be the same guy but there is some question that he won't be. Hopefeully he will be.

Now Bennett, I'm excited about for the future.

Now Reeves was a waste of a signing. That was like taking Phillip Buchanon all over again. Cowboys fans were extremely happy to get rid of that guy, and he was always getting burnt.

Again, Lito has had a few injuries but nothing major. I'll take a young guy that has been to two pro bowls early in his career any day. Last time I checked the Texans don't have any CB's on their roster that have made the pro bowl before.

Wow, you have such flawed logic, I don't know where to start:

1.Who cares what Cowboy fans think about Reeves? Have you ever talked to one of them? Reeves is a scapegoat in Dallas because he was undrafted, he played poorly in the playoff game, and because they have to blame somebody when they lose because they feel entitled to win every game.

2.Who cares about Probowls?... let's see, Roy Williams has been to 5 probowls in 7 season, he's under 30 years old, and if you listen to Cowboy fans, they LOVE him! According to your criteria, we should trade our entire '09 draft to steal this guy away from Dallas.

3.There is a reason why Philadelphia is willing to trade away Sheppard.
a. generosity- they'd like to see Houston succeed because we're a bunch of well-deserving fans?
b. CBs aren't important in order to succeed in the NFC east?
c. They've decided to give up on '08 and rebuild?
d. His attitude or skills have diminished and they see a 2nd round pick as good value for him?
e. They have significant concerns about his ability to stay healthy?
f. It's a boring off-season and they're looking for something to do?

4. We traded two first day picks in order to get Phillip Buchanan, then we eliminated his potential competition at the position and handed him the job, unearned. Reeves didn't cost the team any picks nor does his contract prohibit the team from making other moves. And, he'll only make his way on the field if he earns it. And, he's not coming in thinking he's already a great player. He's here to work and improve and become a better player.


As a fan of a historically bad team, I can relate to skepticism or even cynicism. That being said, there are better ways to handle your fear of disappointment than by wildly criticising every decision being made and every piece of the puzzle without justification.

Texecutioner
06-18-2008, 05:35 PM
Wow, you have such flawed logic, I don't know where to start:

1.Who cares what Cowboy fans think about Reeves? Have you ever talked to one of them? Reeves is a scapegoat in Dallas because he was undrafted, he played poorly in the playoff game, and because they have to blame somebody when they lose because they feel entitled to win every game.

2.Who cares about Probowls?... let's see, Roy Williams has been to 5 probowls in 7 season, he's under 30 years old, and if you listen to Cowboy fans, they LOVE him! According to your criteria, we should trade our entire '09 draft to steal this guy away from Dallas.

3.There is a reason why Philadelphia is willing to trade away Sheppard.
a. generosity- they'd like to see Houston succeed because we're a bunch of well-deserving fans?
b. CBs aren't important in order to succeed in the NFC east?
c. They've decided to give up on '08 and rebuild?
d. His attitude or skills have diminished and they see a 2nd round pick as good value for him?
e. They have significant concerns about his ability to stay healthy?
f. It's a boring off-season and they're looking for something to do?

4. We traded two first day picks in order to get Phillip Buchanan, then we eliminated his potential competition at the position and handed him the job, unearned. Reeves didn't cost the team any picks nor does his contract prohibit the team from making other moves. And, he'll only make his way on the field if he earns it. And, he's not coming in thinking he's already a great player. He's here to work and improve and become a better player.


As a fan of a historically bad team, I can relate to skepticism or even cynicism. That being said, there are better ways to handle your fear of disappointment than by wildly criticising every decision being made and every piece of the puzzle without justification.

Your telling me that my logic is bad for wanting a proven player like Sheppard at a very important position at CB, but yet your trying to make a case for Reeves?? Wow! :spit:

And if you're going to act like making the pro bowl means nothing, then I don't know why I'm wasting my time here. You used Roy Williams as your great example. Like I didn't know that was coming. I guess because he made a few pro bowls where he didn't belong then everyone else who goes doesn't deserve to be there right? And if you think that the majority of Cowboy fans are all ga ga over Roy Will, then have you been living under a rock? All I hear is Cowboy fans swearing against the guy. This isn't 2003 anymore.

And how you can say that teams in the NFC East don't need good CB's to succeed is mind boggling. I guess that's why the Eagles just paid the piper for Samuel. The fact is that they thought they were upgrading by getting Samuel, and they still have Sheldon Brown which gives them 3 really good CB's right now. They can afford to let go of Sheppard, and that is the only reason why they thought about getting rid of him in the first place. In the NFC East, you have the Eagles who throw the ball a lot, the Cowboys who have a QB that almost threw for 40 TD passes and a guy by the name of TO, and the Giants who aren't to shabby when it comes to passing either. So how you say that teams in the NFC East don't need good CB's is insane. Why do you think CB's are getting paid so much these days?

And as for your last paragraph, I hope you do support the team depsite their poor history. So do I and many others, but that doesn't mean that fans aren't allowed to question moves made by management. Swallowing anything that management says or does is called blind loyalty. I thought the Colvin signing was great and the Davis one as well, but of course you'll disregard that part right?

b0ng
06-18-2008, 05:50 PM
Your telling me that my logic is bad for wanting a proven player like Sheppard at a very important position at CB, but yet your trying to make a case for Reeves?? Wow! :spit:



Yes your logic is horrible. You compared the Reeves signing to the Buchanon trade. Opinion invalidated, you can move on from this thread good sir.

Texecutioner
06-18-2008, 05:54 PM
Yes your logic is horrible. You compared the Reeves signing to the Buchanon trade. Opinion invalidated, you can move on from this thread good sir.

What has made Reeves a good signing? What has he done to back up this opinion? Any facts, any links where analysts outside of Houston think it was a great pick up?

76Texan
06-18-2008, 06:22 PM
At a reasonable price, I would love to have Lito here.
We can use more DB help!

pappy
06-18-2008, 06:24 PM
What has made Reeves a good signing? What has he done to back up this opinion? Any facts, any links where analysts outside of Houston think it was a great pick up?

Hey tex this thread is not a draft or trade thread so pick where you think the defense will statistically finish the year and start a new thread of your own bashing the texans as you wish .:whip:

Texecutioner
06-18-2008, 06:43 PM
Hey tex this thread is not a draft or trade thread so pick where you think the defense will statistically finish the year and start a new thread of your own bashing the texans as you wish .:whip:

Geez, where do you come up with this stuff? Not celebrating every move made by management is not bashing the Texans. Jesus christ! I mentioned Lito Sheppard as being a good pick up and you just come out and say I'm just bashing the Texans. Do some of you in here just have to completely quote everything out of context to make a point?

To answer your question though, I'd say right around 15th would be a reasonable assumption at this point. Most likey 17th or 18th, but they could certainly end up around 13th or 14th if things go right. To give you one EXACT number, I'll say 16th.

thunderkyss
06-18-2008, 06:48 PM
What has made Reeves a good signing? What has he done to back up this opinion? Any facts, any links where analysts outside of Houston think it was a great pick up?

Okay.... what difference does it make what people outside of Houston think??

Seriously, some people(outside of Houston) thought the LeCharles Bentley signing was great.

Some folks, outside of Houston, thought the Javon Walker signing by Denver was great.

Then there were those, again, not in Houston, who thought the Thomas Jones signing by the New York(jets) was a great signing.

I'm very excited about the Ray Rhodes aquisition, and he wanted Reeves. I've seen Jaques play, he's got speed, and he's got some skill. I have no reason to believe proper coaching won't make him a stronger player.

Texecutioner
06-18-2008, 06:52 PM
Okay.... what difference does it make what people outside of Houston think??

Seriously, some people(outside of Houston) thought the LeCharles Bentley signing was great.

Some folks, outside of Houston, thought the Javon Walker signing by Denver was great.

Then there were those, again, not in Houston, who thought the Thomas Jones signing by the New York(jets) was a great signing.

I'm very excited about the Ray Rhodes aquisition, and he wanted Reeves. I've seen Jaques play, he's got speed, and he's got some skill. I have no reason to believe proper coaching won't make him a stronger player.

Hopefully you're right about that.

dalemurphy
06-18-2008, 06:54 PM
What has made Reeves a good signing? What has he done to back up this opinion? Any facts, any links where analysts outside of Houston think it was a great pick up?



The move is still to be determined. He hasn't played a down for us yet. Furthermore, he was good enough to start at CB, with poor safeties behind him, on a 13 win team. Since he cost us very little against the cap and no draft picks, nor did the team end its attempts to upgrade the CB position with his signing- I have no reason to not like it so far.

Texecutioner
06-18-2008, 06:58 PM
The move is still to be determined. He hasn't played a down for us yet. Furthermore, he was good enough to start at CB, with poor safeties behind him, on a 13 win team. Since he cost us very little against the cap and no draft picks, nor did the team end its attempts to upgrade the CB position with his signing- I have no reason to not like it so far.

What you fail to realize is that I STRONGLY HOPE that you're right, and that he works out really well. I just don't have any facts to go off of yet to assume that will happen. Personally, I'm all for hoping that this Molden kid steps up, and Barber can become better in coverage. Barber was a really good tackler in college but lacked in coverage. I'd love to see him get better in coverage and take over at the safety position.

dalemurphy
06-18-2008, 07:14 PM
What you fail to realize is that I STRONGLY HOPE that you're right, and that he works out really well. I just don't have any facts to go off of yet to assume that will happen. Personally, I'm all for hoping that this Molden kid steps up, and Barber can become better in coverage. Barber was a really good tackler in college but lacked in coverage. I'd love to see him get better in coverage and take over at the safety position.

I'm not arguing that he will be good. I'm arguing that it was a good signing. It was low cost for a guy with ability who started for a 13 win team. The guy is both young and healthy. Maybe he won't work out. If he doesn't, I'd still wouldn't argue that it was a bad front office move.

If Smith would have used the Reeves signing as an excuse not to address CB in the draft and then if Reeves were to not work out, then I would blame the organization for a mistake.

ObsiWan
06-18-2008, 11:03 PM
What you fail to realize is that I STRONGLY HOPE that you're right, and that he works out really well. I just don't have any facts to go off of yet to assume that will happen. Personally, I'm all for hoping that this Molden kid steps up, and Barber can become better in coverage. Barber was a really good tackler in college but lacked in coverage. I'd love to see him get better in coverage and take over at the safety position.

I'd rather see one of the Brandons step into the free safety spot in a year or so - I think we'll get quality time from Demps and Brown/Earl this year.
If we get quality special teams work from Barber, then he's earned his spot.
Just my :twocents: