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Lucky
06-07-2008, 06:08 PM
With OTAs wrapping up and the Texans facing a cutdown to 80 players before training camp, Kubiak still doesn't know if offensive tackle Charles Spencer will be able to participate for the 2008 season (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5824170.html).

With only two more scheduled days of organized team activities, the Texans are trying to decide how they will proceed with offensive lineman Charles Spencer.

Spencer has attended the mandatory and voluntary practices this offseason, but he has not been cleared by team trainers to participate in all of the drills because of his knee.

Coach Gary Kubiak will talk with team personnel this weekend and decide if Spencer can practice Monday during the final OTA sessions.

"Well, obviously, we're down to a couple of days," Kubiak said. "We've had long discussions with him (Thursday). The bottom line is that we're not quite sure he's ready to get out here and be more active, so they'll evaluate that through the weekend and make a decision.

"It's a big issue, you know, and the issue is strictly a numbers issue with the football team because taking 80 guys to camp and having 80 guys to go through an NFL camp is just a very small number," Kubiak said. "And it's new water for all of us as coaches and general managers, so that's why it makes this decision even tougher as we move forward."

"Well, I think it's still a delicate situation," Kubiak said. "We're trying right now, in all honesty, to figure out the day to really push him hard and see how he responds to that push. We have done a little bit more each day, but we haven't put him in a — I don't want to use the word combative — but a competitive situation where he could be around some piles, so we hope to pick that day here rather quickly and then we'll see how he comes out of it."Even with medical clearance on the knee, Spencer has an uphill battle to make this team. His best chance would be a position change to Guard. But if Spencer can't go during OTAs, the Texans can't assume he'll be ready to go by training camp and cut a player who can contribute. Spencer's short career with the Texans could be coming to an end.

ObsiWan
06-07-2008, 06:15 PM
With OTAs wrapping up and the Texans facing a cutdown to 80 players before training camp, Kubiak still doesn't know if offensive tackle Charles Spencer will be able to participate for the 2008 season (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5824170.html).

Even with medical clearance on the knee, Spencer has an uphill battle to make this team. His best chance would be a position change to Guard. But if Spencer can't go during OTAs, the Texans can't assume he'll be ready to go by training camp and cut a player who can contribute. Spencer's short career with the Texans could be coming to an end.

damn you Ron Dayne

dalemurphy
06-07-2008, 06:27 PM
With OTAs wrapping up and the Texans facing a cutdown to 80 players before training camp, Kubiak still doesn't know if offensive tackle Charles Spencer will be able to participate for the 2008 season (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5824170.html).

Even with medical clearance on the knee, Spencer has an uphill battle to make this team. His best chance would be a position change to Guard. But if Spencer can't go during OTAs, the Texans can't assume he'll be ready to go by training camp and cut a player who can contribute. Spencer's short career with the Texans could be coming to an end.


Looks like he's done here. If he doesn't make the 80, we'll never see him again. If he can make this cut, then I think he may go to the practice squad. I don't see PUP happening because he can't participate in training camp if he's PUP'd... And, he can't miss another training camp and then have any value to the club in midseason.

ObsiWan
06-07-2008, 06:43 PM
Looks like he's done here. If he doesn't make the 80, we'll never see him again. If he can make this cut, then I think he may go to the practice squad. I don't see PUP happening because he can't participate in training camp if he's PUP'd... And, he can't miss another training camp and then have any value to the club in midseason.

Hmmmm....
If he makes it thru waivers to our practice squad, then he could rejoin the team should the injury bug hit us again like it did last year. That'll give him more time to recover.

Not a bad plan but will it work?

GuerillaBlack
06-07-2008, 06:47 PM
damn you Ron Dayne

Fa sho.

b0ng
06-07-2008, 06:53 PM
Hmmmm....
If he makes it thru waivers to our practice squad, then he could rejoin the team should the injury bug hit us again like it did last year. That'll give him more time to recover.

Not a bad plan but will it work?

I think that even if he makes the PS, it's not a surefire thing that he gets to play once he's fully recovered. If we stick with zone blocking, who's to say he's going to be quick footed enough to play in that scheme?

I think a team that uses a power blocking scheme would probably love a player like a fully recovered Charles Spencer. He engulfs people, and then he buries them. I think he'd be perfect in a scheme where he's asked to take down one defender, 2 at most.

ObsiWan
06-07-2008, 07:00 PM
Well, I'm hoping he makes it back.
Not only does he want to play again, but he wants to play HERE.
That's worth a lot to me.

Lucky
06-07-2008, 07:07 PM
Hmmmm....
If he makes it thru waivers to our practice squad...
The practice squad isn't set until just prior to the start of the season. In the mean time, Spencer will be not practicing with the team. With zero reps over the past 2 years, I have to question how much value Spencer would have on the practice squad and if he would even be ready to contribute during the season. I think that spot would be better served by a healthy player who has had the reps and would be ready to step in as a reserve. Like a Frye, Eslinger, or Fenton.

dalemurphy
06-07-2008, 07:45 PM
The practice squad isn't set until just prior to the start of the season. In the mean time, Spencer will be not practicing with the team. With zero reps over the past 2 years, I have to question how much value Spencer would have on the practice squad and if he would even be ready to contribute during the season. I think that spot would be better served by a healthy player who has had the reps and would be ready to step in as a reserve. Like a Frye, Eslinger, or Fenton.


As high as Spencer's ceiling is, I would think he'd be worth a spot on the practice squad if the team believes he's on track to recover. DEFINITELY! That being said, it sure looks like the team no longer believes in the likelihood of Spencer being healthy again. It's very disappointing... But, it's amazing what the front office has accomplished in less than two years, because the loss of Spencer no longer effects my perception of this team's ability to compete. The talent pool here is worlds better than it was when Ron Dayne stepped on my heart and Spencer's leg.

barrett
06-07-2008, 08:12 PM
dale, you're going with me to a cubs astros game the night before our home opener. we're gonna spoon at the hotel after. imagine waking up at 8 am to tailgate!!!!!!

by the way... how many players are we allowed to have on the practice squad?

ObsiWan
06-07-2008, 08:18 PM
The practice squad isn't set until just prior to the start of the season. In the mean time, Spencer will be not practicing with the team. With zero reps over the past 2 years, I have to question how much value Spencer would have on the practice squad and if he would even be ready to contribute during the season. I think that spot would be better served by a healthy player who has had the reps and would be ready to step in as a reserve. Like a Frye, Eslinger, or Fenton.

He's not forbidden to take reps with the team unless he's officially put on IR or the PUP list is he?

I think that's the $64 question for Smith/Gibbs: Which of these guys has more upside?

dalemurphy
06-07-2008, 08:53 PM
He's not forbidden to take reps with the team unless he's officially put on IR or the PUP list is he?

I think that's the $64 question for Smith/Gibbs: Which of these guys has more upside?

You can only be put on the PUP list if you haven't participated at all during training camp.

The IR is different. I guess that is a possibility, though he wouldn't be able to practice with the team while he's on the IR, I don't think.

dalemurphy
06-07-2008, 08:53 PM
dale, you're going with me to a cubs astros game the night before our home opener. we're gonna spoon at the hotel after. imagine waking up at 8 am to tailgate!!!!!!

by the way... how many players are we allowed to have on the practice squad?


Everything sounds good about that scenario except the baseball game... That being said, you're on!

ObsiWan
06-07-2008, 09:01 PM
dale, you're going with me to a cubs astros game the night before our home opener. we're gonna spoon at the hotel after. imagine waking up at 8 am to tailgate!!!!!!

by the way... how many players are we allowed to have on the practice squad?

T.M.I.!!!
:yikes:

ubecool454
06-07-2008, 09:09 PM
This is the Ugly side of the NFL. Can we jail Ron Dayne for hit and run?

Lucky
06-07-2008, 09:46 PM
He's not forbidden to take reps with the team unless he's officially put on IR or the PUP list is he?

If Spencer is on the roster, and not on IR or PUP, he's eligible to practice. What I was referring to was the scenario where Spencer is released prior to training camp and whether it would be a good idea to put him on the practice squad (which isn't formed until after the 53 man cutdown) without going through a training camp or preseason.

barrett, the practice squads are allowed a maximum of 8 players.

Specnatz
06-07-2008, 09:49 PM
dale, you're going with me to a cubs astros game the night before our home opener. we're gonna spoon at the hotel after. imagine waking up at 8 am to tailgate!!!!!!

by the way... how many players are we allowed to have on the practice squad?

Everything sounds good about that scenario except the baseball game... That being said, you're on!

T.M.I.!!!
:yikes:

:spit: Oh shit that is F'n hilarious. Thanks for the laugh. Obsiwan you would have to know Barrett and Dale. Hey Barrett, you fat ass, just do not break any chaairs at the hotel.

Specnatz
06-07-2008, 09:50 PM
If Spencer is on the roster, and not on IR or PUP, he's eligible to practice. What I was referring to was the scenario where Spencer is released prior to training camp and whether it would be a good idea to put him on the practice squad (which isn't formed until after the 53 man cutdown) without going through a training camp or preseason.

barrett, the practice squads are allowed a maximum of 8 players.

Can they invite to camp .. ala baseball .. as a nonroster invitee?

GP
06-07-2008, 10:42 PM
If Spencer is on the roster, and not on IR or PUP, he's eligible to practice. What I was referring to was the scenario where Spencer is released prior to training camp and whether it would be a good idea to put him on the practice squad (which isn't formed until after the 53 man cutdown) without going through a training camp or preseason.

barrett, the practice squads are allowed a maximum of 8 players.

And, any team can sign any player from any team's practice squad. Correct? So that means Spencer is fair game to any NFL team even if he's on our practice squad. IIRC, it works like that.

I don't even have the words to express how I feel on this whole situation.

Tulip
06-07-2008, 10:54 PM
Every time I have an urge to say something nice about Ron Dayne, I remember Charles Spencer, and the urge goes away.

Lucky
06-07-2008, 10:58 PM
Can they invite to camp .. ala baseball .. as a nonroster invitee?
No, he would have to be on the roster to participate in camp.

Hervoyel
06-07-2008, 11:42 PM
I have a very strong belief from the "feel" of this article and the very widely known Texans pattern of never telling anyone the truth about any injury regardless of it's severity (a pattern that continues through a coaching and GM change I might add) that we will never see Charles Spencer on the field again. There's just something about the way all of this was written that says loudly "Everyone knows this man is done except for him and all of you..." This feels like Tony Boselli. This feels a little bit like Domanick Davis.

If Charles Spencer even makes it to training camp the Texans will be talking about what a great effort he put forth to get back to where he is and what a shame it is that his career was ended so early. They'll wish him the best and that'll be it.

dalemurphy
06-07-2008, 11:59 PM
I have a very strong belief from the "feel" of this article and the very widely known Texans pattern of never telling anyone the truth about any injury regardless of it's severity (a pattern that continues through a coaching and GM change I might add) that we will never see Charles Spencer on the field again. There's just something about the way all of this was written that says loudly "Everyone knows this man is done except for him and all of you..." This feels like Tony Boselli. This feels a little bit like Domanick Davis.

If Charles Spencer even makes it to training camp the Texans will be talking about what a great effort he put forth to get back to where he is and what a shame it is that his career was ended so early. They'll wish him the best and that'll be it.


I'm about as optimistic as any poster on these boards. I also tend to give the organization the benefit of the doubt...

I agree with literally every word from Hervoyel. Two weeks ago I was arguing with the entire board about the possibility of Spencer at RT and moving Winston to RG. However, I think they've made the writing on the wall pretty freakin' clear.

PapaL
06-08-2008, 12:36 AM
The IR is different. I guess that is a possibility, though he wouldn't be able to practice with the team while he's on the IR, I don't think.

Unless he plays for NE - You can NOT practice with the team while on IR.

PapaL
06-08-2008, 12:38 AM
I have a very strong belief from the "feel" of this article and the very widely known Texans pattern of never telling anyone the truth about any injury regardless of it's severity (a pattern that continues through a coaching and GM change I might add) that we will never see Charles Spencer on the field again. There's just something about the way all of this was written that says loudly "Everyone knows this man is done except for him and all of you..." This feels like Tony Boselli. This feels a little bit like Domanick Davis.

If Charles Spencer even makes it to training camp the Texans will be talking about what a great effort he put forth to get back to where he is and what a shame it is that his career was ended so early. They'll wish him the best and that'll be it.

Knowing that plus this latest example has me wondering what is really going on with DRob.

nero THE zero
06-08-2008, 12:48 AM
Knowing that plus this latest example has me wondering what is really going on with DRob.

Why does it have you wondering about DRob? Has there been something you've seen that's given you cause for concern?

mexican_texan
06-08-2008, 01:06 AM
Charles Spencer is quickly turning into one of my favorite players. A lot of people would have quit by now. I must tip my hat to him and I'll buy him a beer when I'm old enough.

TexanBacker93
06-08-2008, 01:34 AM
Looks like he's done here. If he doesn't make the 80, we'll never see him again. If he can make this cut, then I think he may go to the practice squad. I don't see PUP happening because he can't participate in training camp if he's PUP'd... And, he can't miss another training camp and then have any value to the club in midseason.

The other issue with the PUP is those players count against the 80 teams can take to camp. That's the real issue the Texans are facing. They've lost 7 roster spots because of NFL Europe and it's going to be tough to carry him if he can't participate. They could IR him, but then he's definitely lost for the season. It's a tough call.

Marcus
06-08-2008, 02:03 AM
I never thought Spencer would make it back. I would have been shocked to the core if he ever made it back on the field. His injury was just too severe. The biggest issue I have with this organization, still, is it's unwillingness to level with us about players who they really know that have career-ending injuries.

They strung us along with Tony Boselli. They strung us along with Domanick Davis. They strung us along with Charles Spencer. And they are going to string us along with Dunta Robinson.

Just fricken pisses me off.

SAMURAITEXAN
06-08-2008, 02:33 AM
I don't think our organization is what yall saying about not telling the truth.

Boselli was with diifferent FO and with Dominick, Kubiak came in Texans organization after his injury. So, Kubiak did not know what to expect from Dominick. By looking at from his past performance, he could been an asset to his team. However, turned out to be Dominick's injury was too severe and you know the rest of the story. To me, for Spencer, Kubiak gave him a chance to return if there is a chance even a slim chance. Because, Kubiak drafted him and he was so promising to become our future LT. Even with seemgly severy injury situation, some are able to come back and some are not. Simple as that.

I wish the best to Spencer as I was so high on him.(There's still hope in me that Spencer puts on TEXANS uni in this coming season)

Go Texans!!

ATXtexanfan
06-08-2008, 02:49 AM
it would be such a shame if we let him go, another reason why you can't blame these guys for holding out and getting all the guaranteed money they can, never know when it's your last play, can't believe a teammate cost him everything

ocd
06-08-2008, 03:50 AM
Well, it's a very tough contact sport. And on that note...

:thisbig:

Maddict5
06-08-2008, 04:27 AM
This is the Ugly side of the NFL. Can we jail Ron Dayne for hit and run?


run is such a strong word (for dayne anyway)..


it was more like a hit and rumble

edo783
06-08-2008, 06:43 AM
Starting to look kind of nasty for Big Nasty. Dang, I hate to think that it's going go that way. I knew the odds were real long, but just like most everyone here, I was pulling hard for the big guy.

Malloy
06-08-2008, 07:04 AM
Given the turn of events, really, Ron Dayne should have earned the nick Big Nasty :)

nunusguy
06-08-2008, 12:10 PM
I dunno for sure, but didn't both Bosseli and Dominigue both put some pads on and make it to the practice field in one capacity or another ? But Spencer has not even done that so far and that's after 2 years of rehab. Not at all encouraging but Kubiak seemed optimistic all along and many times expressed an opinion that ultimately Spencer would play again, though he was also intentionally vague about when that would be ?

Buffi2
06-08-2008, 12:17 PM
I agree with Hervoyel. I never thought he would make it back but I was sure rooting for him...and still am.

Good luck Charles - I'm hoping you make it back on the field in a Texan uniform. :blowakiss:

CloakNNNdagger
06-08-2008, 12:41 PM
I dunno for sure, but didn't both Bosseli and Dominigue both put some pads on and make it to the practice field in one capacity or another ? But Spencer has not even done that so far and that's after 2 years of rehab. Not at all encouraging but Kubiak seemed optimistic all along and many times expressed an opinion that ultimately Spencer would play again, though he was also intentionally vague about when that would be ?

Boselli never made it to a padded practice........his shoulder range of motion up until his release was significantly compromised..........the Texans weren't about to take on additional liablity with further injury.

Lucky
06-08-2008, 01:38 PM
They strung us along with Tony Boselli. They strung us along with Domanick Davis. They strung us along with Charles Spencer. And they are going to string us along with Dunta Robinson.

I agree to a varying extent on your comments regarding Boselli, Davis, and Spencer. Though I think these players share in the blame. However, Robinson is well ahead of schedule in his rehab, according to everything I've heard. In fact, the Texans have tried to downplay how quickly Dunta might return. I can't lump Robinson's injury in with the rest.

Other than Lance Zierlein, you don't get a lot of honest opinion and inside information out of the Chronic. He's what Lance said in his blog on Thursday (http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2008/06/post_52.html), 6/6, in response to a post on Spencer.

He's too big for what they want at guard and his recovery status is still a concern. Don't be surprised if you see an injury settlement at some time.I won't be surprised.

swtbound07
06-08-2008, 02:26 PM
can we sign dayne, trade him to the colts and pay him 5 mil to roll on peyton manning?

DiehardChris
06-08-2008, 02:32 PM
Given the turn of events, really, Ron Dayne should have earned the nick Big Nasty :)

It's not a turn of events, though. This is what I think most people expected. They kept telling us how he was only on the sidelines running, and now the most he's done is fire off the line with some other offensive lineman - and from the video I saw, he was far and away the slowest one off the line.

I kept talking about how he was too big and not quick enough to make this team as a guard in the ZBS, but people told me I was wrong about that. It still might be wrong, but it sure looks like they're about to cut him loose. At this point, it's been almost two years, so I don't see the harm in sticking with the 'project', but with all that talk from Kubiak about having to only take 80 players to camp, it sure sounds like there's a decision coming soon.

I mean, there are going to be a LOT of guys in that final 80 who Kubiak KNOWS isn't going to make the team - so why not just cut that guy now and see if Spencer can make any progress at camp, then if he doesn't - PUP him again... then when his PUP time is over and he still isn't ready - THAT'S when you do an injury settlement and cut him loose.

barrett
06-08-2008, 02:33 PM
barrett, the practice squads are allowed a maximum of 8 players.

thank you.

BigTimeTexanFan
06-08-2008, 02:39 PM
I'm really pulling for him, but I won 't be shocked if he doesn't make it back. It's then Bennie Joppru feeling I'm getting that won't allow me to get too excited.

barrett
06-08-2008, 02:43 PM
so if he's IR'd does that count against any part of our roster? it doesn't does it? as far as i'm concerned with as much depth as we would appear to have on the OL i'd be perfectly fine with IRing him again for a whole other year. what's the harm? he's young. even if he comes back as depth but can play well for 10 years or hell even 5 then it is worth the wait. i'd rather see us keep someone with potential and drag it along just in case. so long as it's not hurting us by taking up a roster spot from someone who is healthy that may be a project as well.

Lucky
06-08-2008, 02:56 PM
I mean, there are going to be a LOT of guys in that final 80 who Kubiak KNOWS isn't going to make the team - so why not just cut that guy now and see if Spencer can make any progress at camp...
Because you have to have guys on the practice field who can take reps. With the NFL Europe exemptions, teams could have some guys standing around and not participating. But, they're gone. Plus, there are guys who get nicked up in camp that can't play. Kubiak can't afford to cut a healthy Scott Jackson or Dan Stevenson prior to camp, while keeping a guy who can't take reps and may not be ready to go in 2008.

And maybe Kubiak "KNOWS" that Spencer is one of those guys who isn't going to make this team.

As far as placing Spencer on IR, they've already carried him for 2 seasons. If he fully rehabs and gets back into shape, the Texans could re-sign him in the '09 offseason. Though I doubt he's a good fit for what they're trying to do on the o-line, now.

barrett
06-08-2008, 03:04 PM
i understand that he's been IR'd for two years but i'm saying what's the harm in another year? honestly with his potential (based soley on what kubiak has said about his ability in the past i'm assuming he is someone that the coaching staff would want on their roster or else they wouldn't be rehabing him i'm guessing.) why not one more season and see if he comes out on the positive side. it'd be a shame but what's the harm?

Lucky
06-08-2008, 03:25 PM
honestly with his potential (based soley on what kubiak has said about his ability in the past...
The question is, does Spencer carry the same amount of potential post- injury? Pre-injury, he was a potential starting LT in the NFL. Post-injury, he may be a bad fit as a ZBS Guard. Really, we're not talking about the same player. And frankly, it doesn't seem as if Spencer has been in the best shape possible during the rehab process.

I don't know what the difference between an injury settlement and a full year's salary would be. I doubt that would be enough to become a determining factor in the decision. I think it boils down to whether the Texans see Spencer as someone who can contribute in the future.

DiehardChris
06-08-2008, 03:40 PM
...and we already know the answer to that question. They've said he will always have at least some kind of a limp, and either Kubiak or Spencer has already said there's no way he can be expected to play at the same level he did pre-injury. It's always just been a matter of time, IMO.

I just think the braintrust thought it was worth the longshot that he could recover in time to contribute this season. And hey - it IS worth the chance, because if it miraculously worked out - what a reward it would be. But if you're talking about keeping 10 O-lineman on the active roster - or even 11 - there's no room on there for Spencer unless he somehow gets to whatever his post-injury version of 100% is... and who knows if that will be good, strong, quick, and fast enough for the ZBS under a hardass like Gibbs.

V3rm0nt3r
06-08-2008, 04:03 PM
The question is, does Spencer carry the same amount of potential post- injury? Pre-injury, he was a potential starting LT in the NFL.

He was a starting LT, he had the potential to be a franchise LT. With that kind of potential why not keep him for TC and IR him again if need be. If or when he comes back he could back up Winston until Salaam retires and then move over and back up Duane. His potential may still be there, that's all I'm saying.

Lucky
06-08-2008, 04:40 PM
He was a starting LT, he had the potential to be a franchise LT...His potential may still be there, that's all I'm saying.
We really don't how good Spencer would or could have been. Franchise LT seems to be overstating a bit. Now, we're talking about a player who hasn't had contact in almost 2 years, and the date he will get medical clearance for contact is unknown. And to keep a player on IR for 3 seasons, when his potential on the team is to be a backup tackle, doesn't seem justified.

Runner
06-08-2008, 04:47 PM
He was a starting LT, he had the potential to be a franchise LT.

Yes, he started a couple of games. Many fans had him going to the pro bowl after a couple of good pre-season performances against mostly second stringers. I guess every untested player has potential to be a franchise player, but in reality he was no more than a rookie starting at LT who had his moments, both good and bad. The play he got hurt on was an example of one of his weaknesses. He didn't move when the ball was snapped; that's why he was pushed back into the backfield. Sometimes he was very slow off the line.

I feel bad for Spencer; I've heard he's a decent guy. Lots of decent guys get cut though.

With that kind of potential why not keep him for TC and IR him again if need be. If or when he comes back he could back up Winston until Salaam retires and then move over and back up Duane. His potential may still be there, that's all I'm saying.

Using a roster spot on him would make him an expensive long shot. The Texans may have learned a lesson with carrying Mathis for so long. He even has proven performance, but injuries were to be a factor with him.

TK_Gamer
06-08-2008, 05:56 PM
I think Spencer is gone, it's just a question of how they do it. It's a sad story.

NBT
06-08-2008, 06:26 PM
It isn't as if Dayne was intending to hurt Spencer. But, it's a damn shame, not only for Spencer, but for the amount of money the team has expended trying to rehab him, to say nothing of paying his salary. Ouch! If his frame no longer fits our offensive line's image, that's one thing, but if another team picks him up and he plays this year, that's gonna be tough to take.

painekiller
06-08-2008, 06:54 PM
I hope he is on a roster, whether it is on the IR or not. 3 years of service is what it takes to become eligible for the players retirement benefits. It was one of the reasons Buffalo held up settling with Kevin Everett, by waiting until the season was over he qualified for full retirement benefits and that will help Spencer with his post playing medical issues.

Spencer has done everything he can, and he may still make it back to a playing field, but as a Texans is looking less likely.

barrett
06-08-2008, 07:20 PM
i'm suggesting we IR him now. that way he doesn't take up a roster spot especially not going into TC when we've got all these unproven guys that are healthy. I don't want to keep him for another year on IR if he's gonna take up a roster spot during TC. I'm saying if we IR him now we can continue the "experiment" one more year. what's the harm in that? other than we're left to discuss his potential for another whole year.

Tailgate
06-08-2008, 07:28 PM
Yes, he started a couple of games. Many fans had him going to the pro bowl after a couple of good pre-season performances against mostly second stringers. I guess every untested player has potential to be a franchise player, but in reality he was no more than a rookie starting at LT who had his moments, both good and bad. The play he got hurt on was an example of one of his weaknesses. He didn't move when the ball was snapped; that's why he was pushed back into the backfield. Sometimes he was very slow off the line.

I feel bad for Spencer; I've heard he's a decent guy. Lots of decent guys get cut though.



Using a roster spot on him would make him an expensive long shot. The Texans may have learned a lesson with carrying Mathis for so long. He even has proven performance, but injuries were to be a factor with him.


An overstatement possibly before, but this also sounds like you are trying to let this one down as easy as possible on the other end. It was mainly Kubiak who did all the hyping about Spencer, which in turn ignited the fans. Kubiak was very very high on Spencer and spoke often about it. The year Spencer got hurt Kubiak stated later it was the lowest point of the season for the organization. Huge blow to the team, its future, and obviously Spencers development. From the sound of it Kubiak had very big plans for this kid. I wonder if you ask Kubiak now about what he thought he might have on his hands back then as a player for the future.... I am not so sure a Franchise type LT wasnt in his head somewhere.

dalemurphy
06-08-2008, 07:31 PM
i'm suggesting we IR him now. that way he doesn't take up a roster spot especially not going into TC when we've got all these unproven guys that are healthy. I don't want to keep him for another year on IR if he's gonna take up a roster spot during TC. I'm saying if we IR him now we can continue the "experiment" one more year. what's the harm in that? other than we're left to discuss his potential for another whole year.

The guy needs to play this year. He needs to either make a team or a practice squad. It would be unfair to him to stash him away on IR again and that extra year of no football would probably seal is fate.

barrett
06-08-2008, 08:05 PM
but doesn't pushing him at TC possibly seal his fate as well?

BornOrange
06-08-2008, 08:15 PM
Spencer is not eligible for the practice squad since he already has two years in the NFL.

Hottoddie
06-08-2008, 08:18 PM
I don't know what the difference between an injury settlement and a full year's salary would be. I doubt that would be enough to become a determining factor in the decision. I think it boils down to whether the Texans see Spencer as someone who can contribute in the future.


And with this thought in mind, why wouldn't they just put him on the field to see if he can play, or not? He might not be a good fit for the ZBS, but with the potential he showed prior to the injury, surely some team might be willing to give up a late round draft pick for him. After all, they've got scouts too.

I'm just saying, we shouldn't just throw him away if we can get something for him. As NBT said, I'd sure hate to see another team pick him up & he turns into a starter at guard or tackle for them.

We could probably let him sit on the PUP one more year, if Brown, Butler, & Frye step up. That would allow us to let Salaam (32 y/o) walk & clear another roster spot for the young guns.

Runner
06-08-2008, 08:19 PM
Spencer is not eligible for the practice squad since he already has two years in the NFL.

He is because he hasn't been activated for enough games to be ineligible. The Texans wanted to move Joppru to the PS when they cut him, but he move to the Bears PS instead. He had more years than Spencer.


An overstatement possibly before, but this also sounds like you are trying to let this one down as easy as possible on the other end.


If I understand what you are saying, not so. I held and posted the same opinion before Spencer played his first regular season game. Lots of teams passed on him for one reason or another during the draft. He could have been a diamond in the rough, or not. I wanted to see it to believe it at that critical position.

Then again, I'm admittedly biased about many things Texans so take my opinion for what it is worth - the paper it is written on. :)

ObsiWan
06-08-2008, 08:29 PM
If he's truly healed then he should be pushed at T/C.
If he's "healed" but won't really ever be as strong as before, then perhaps we should settle with him and let him find another team to play with.

The question in my mind is, if he's not 100% of what he was - or what we thought he was: Is 80-90% of the Spencer we remember better than 100% of the other young guys, Butler/Frye/Eslinger/Fenton/Stevenson/White/etc.

I like Spencer and I hope he makes it back but not at the expense of the team's overall strength

Grid
06-08-2008, 11:25 PM
bah..i cant stand people that get on Ron Dayne for Spencer's injury.

The next time you accidentally run over a squirrel I hope you get arrested and sent to prison for a couple years for animal cruelty.

BornOrange
06-09-2008, 12:03 AM
He is because he hasn't been activated for enough games to be ineligible. The Texans wanted to move Joppru to the PS when they cut him, but he move to the Bears PS instead. He had more years than Spencer.
You're right, the Bears did have Joppru on their practice squad until the Seahawks signed him. I guess years of service are counted different ways for different purposes. At least I hope time on the IR does count towards eligibility for the NFL pension, otherwise injured players really get screwed.

That's good news that Spencer could be put on the practice squad if he isn't able to make the final roster. Even when (or if) Spencer is cleared to play, he will probably be a little rusty and may need some extra time before he can contribute. I would hate to lose him because he did show a lot of potential in the short time he was able to play.

cuppacoffee
06-09-2008, 12:08 AM
bah..i cant stand people that get on Ron Dayne for Spencer's injury.

The next time you accidentally run over a squirrel I hope you get arrested and sent to prison for a couple years for animal cruelty.


Whew!

Guess I get a walk on the possums, coons and skunks. Lots of them critters out here in the boondocks where I live.

I swear...I didn't run over that squirrel.


:coffee:

dalemurphy
06-09-2008, 12:51 AM
bah..i cant stand people that get on Ron Dayne for Spencer's injury.

The next time you accidentally run over a squirrel I hope you get arrested and sent to prison for a couple years for animal cruelty.


A better analogy would be: the next time you accidentally run over a dog with your Hummer2, it's going to further effect my opinion of you- which already wasn't very high.

dalemurphy
06-09-2008, 12:54 AM
but doesn't pushing him at TC possibly seal his fate as well?

Man, you fat guys really stick together!!

First, I can't imagine what would still be in the process of healing after 22 months. If he's struggling due to condition, that's not going to change with another year away from football. If he is having problems with his knee and/or leg still, it's not going away. So, if he can't participate in football activities this year (at least training camp and practice squad), I think it's almost assured that his career is done.

dalemurphy
06-09-2008, 12:56 AM
Spencer is not eligible for the practice squad since he already has two years in the NFL.


He's done then... Unless something very surprising happens in the next 2 months. If he makes the 80 man roster, he'd better drop 20 lbs before training camp to give himself a shot.

barrett
06-09-2008, 04:00 AM
Man, you fat guys really stick together!!

First, I can't imagine what would still be in the process of healing after 22 months. If he's struggling due to condition, that's not going to change with another year away from football. If he is having problems with his knee and/or leg still, it's not going away. So, if he can't participate in football activities this year (at least training camp and practice squad), I think it's almost assured that his career is done.

but i think that the issue is time and roster spots more than anything else. i agree that any injury should be fully healed by now. so i doubt that is a factor specifically. i think it's weather or not he is worth a roster spot in TC due to the uncertainty of his situation

. I think it's hard to answer that question because he's only been active for four weeks. (mini camp plus OTA's). for whatever reason he wasn't in a position to participate with the team during the course of that time. (i'm still not clear on if it was an issue of his injury, his "football shape" or his mind.)

i think what the organization is struggling with is "do we cut this guy or do we hope he can come around during TC?" but they've made it clear that they are very unsure. it seems unlikely that they would keep someone that they are unsure about. except that Spencer has alot of potential theoretically. and how do you weigh his theoretical potential against someone that is physically 100% but has talent unknowns?

needless to say, it's a tough decision. i think that's why the intend to "push him" on monday or tuesday and somehow magically they will have all the info they need to make the right decision.

by the way, i did realize i was fat about a month ago. i broke 180 for the first time in my life. i'm proud to say i'm back down around 177 now. phwew. but god i love pizza. so very much....

Malloy
06-09-2008, 06:26 AM
bah..i cant stand people that get on Ron Dayne for Spencer's injury.

The next time you accidentally run over a squirrel I hope you get arrested and sent to prison for a couple years for animal cruelty.

ty. The whole dayne-hate is patethic imo.

HJam72
06-09-2008, 06:49 AM
Haven't you guys seen the commercial? Those little critters run right out there on purpose. I ain't takin' it.

:drive:

ObsiWan
06-09-2008, 07:20 AM
bah..i cant stand people that get on Ron Dayne for Spencer's injury.

The next time you accidentally run over a squirrel I hope you get arrested and sent to prison for a couple years for animal cruelty.

driving over a squirrel that darts in front of you while you're doing 30 mph is a bit different than running up the back of a 330 guy who's trying to help you and was there - in front of you - the whole time.

ObsiWan
06-09-2008, 07:27 AM
ty. The whole dayne-hate is patethic imo.

Personally, I don't hate Dayne. I hate the whole chain of events. Damned fates conspired against us.

HOU-TEX
06-09-2008, 10:10 AM
IMO, thet should let him loose today and tomorrow to see where he's at. If he can handle it, they should give him a shot with a very short leash. If he can't, let him go quickly and move on.

:texflag:

nero THE zero
06-09-2008, 10:49 AM
driving over a squirrel that darts in front of you while you're doing 30 mph is a bit different than running up the back of a 330 guy who's trying to help you and was there - in front of you - the whole time.

I haven't played football since middle school, but I remember one of the first lessons I was taught at fullback was to run over anyone who was in front of me, even if it was one of my own guys. Coach said that if my blockers weren't getting enough push to make a lane for me, maybe getting run over by their own player would be enough motivation to do it next time.

I don't see how the blame lays on Dayne for that one.

Lucky
06-09-2008, 11:09 AM
Coach said that if my blockers weren't getting enough push to make a lane for me, maybe getting run over by their own player would be enough motivation to do it next time.
I'm not busting on Dayne, but it was a draw play, or delayed handoff, that Spencer was injured on. Spencer wasn't supposed to get a push. His job was to allow the DE to come upfield, then seal him off. Which Spencer pretty much did. It was a freak injury that is blameless.

Double Barrel
06-09-2008, 11:51 AM
If Charles Spencer even makes it to training camp the Texans will be talking about what a great effort he put forth to get back to where he is and what a shame it is that his career was ended so early. They'll wish him the best and that'll be it.

yep, I agree. Stick a fork in him, because he's done.

It's a bummer, but that's the life of a pro football player. It's a tough sport, and there is no room for the weak and injured.

Lucky
06-09-2008, 07:03 PM
Post OTA quotes (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4366) from Rick Smith on Spencer

(on what the team will do with T/G Charles Spencer) “Well, we don’t know. We’ve got a lot of conversations to have between now and training camp. His rehab process has gone slow, and we had hoped that it would have been a little bit better at this point and so from a lot of standpoints, that’s a little disappointing. But we’re going to continue to be patient with Charles and give him every opportunity that we can to make it back.”

(on how hard it is when they like a player like Spencer to take emotion out of a roster decision) “Well, and that’s it: You’d like to say it’s business, but I don’t think you ever make a purely business decision. And so you see a kid working hard the way he has worked and you want to give him every opportunity, but like you said, at some point we’ve got 80 guys who’ll go to training camp and we can’t afford to have a bunch of guys standing around because we’ve already got one in Dunta (Robinson) that’s going to count, so we’re down to 79 and you can’t have very many guys that are counting that won’t practice. So it’s tough.”Kubiak on Spencer
on doing anything with T/G Charles Spencer) “No. We are still going to take our time with that. As I told you before, I would have loved to have done some things on the field to make me feel better about our verdict, I should say. But it is what it is. It. The kid’s not there yet, not ready to get his feet turned loose with these guys. We’ve got six weeks here, a little less than six weeks. We’ll keep pushing him and see where he’s at.”So it seems that Spencer has until the start of camp, or until the Texans need the roster spot, to show he's ready for two-a-days and contact.

HJam72
06-09-2008, 07:08 PM
I haven't played football since middle school, but I remember one of the first lessons I was taught at fullback was to run over anyone who was in front of me, even if it was one of my own guys. Coach said that if my blockers weren't getting enough push to make a lane for me, maybe getting run over by their own player would be enough motivation to do it next time.

I don't see how the blame lays on Dayne for that one.

Now I don't feel so bad about my center getting all ticked off because I supposedly kept "spearing" him, lol. In his defense, though, he got speared because he always got a further push upfield than any other linemen, but there was no hole at all--EVER. I just plowed the lane and plowed right into whatever was in the way at the back of it. Then we'd run a sweep, and instead of running all the way to the sideline, I'd run outside of the tackle and then turn upfield and plow right into whatever defender was in my way (I had a lot to learn, lol).

What I don't remember doing is falling on the back of any lineman's knee. I was too busy sticking my helmet in their backs. :)

dalemurphy
06-09-2008, 07:18 PM
If you check out the video of Kubiak on the home website, it sounds like they believe he's done.

Kubiak talked about a conversation he had with Charles, how difficult the situation is, but assuring Charles that God has a plan for him.



That seems pretty clear to me. Dang it! This just sucks! First, for Charles Spencer and also for the team. I really hate injuries. That's the most frustrating thing about the NFL, IMO.

DiehardChris
06-09-2008, 07:22 PM
LOL, yeah I saw that too. When you're going to the God card, that's... well, that's not a good sign.

HJam72
06-09-2008, 07:27 PM
I sure hope that doesn't mean he's gonna win Super Bowls with the freakin' Cowboys. :cool:

Specnatz
06-09-2008, 07:36 PM
I sure hope that doesn't mean he's gonna win Super Bowls with the freakin' Cowboys. :cool:

They would have to win a playoff game first.

Chris I agree once you goto the God has a plan for you, you might as well add and football is not it.

ObsiWan
06-09-2008, 07:48 PM
This is the most telling quote IMO....


(on how hard it is when they like a player like Spencer to take emotion out of a roster decision) “Well, and that’s it: You’d like to say it’s business, but I don’t think you ever make a purely business decision. And so you see a kid working hard the way he has worked and you want to give him every opportunity, but like you said, at some point we’ve got 80 guys who’ll go to training camp and we can’t afford to have a bunch of guys standing around because we’ve already got one in Dunta (Robinson) that’s going to count, so we’re down to 79 and you can’t have very many guys that are counting that won’t practice. So it’s tough.”


I could be wrong but this tells me that Spencer's got until T/C opens to be ready to play or he's out.

Marcus
06-09-2008, 08:09 PM
This is the most telling quote IMO....

I could be wrong but this tells me that Spencer's got until T/C opens to be ready to play or he's out.

He's not ready after 22 months, but you're going to see if he's ready in another 6 weeks???

Just cut him already. This is nothing but a song and dance.

Honoring Earl 34
06-09-2008, 08:21 PM
John McClain said Spencer's injury was equal to jumping out of a five story window and trying to land on your feet ... eeek .

I wish Cloak and Dagger was here to give an opinion . Mine is that it's just to risky now and it'll be to risky next year and so on .

Specnatz
06-09-2008, 08:31 PM
He's not ready after 22 months, but you're going to see if he's ready in another 6 weeks???

Just cut him already. This is nothing but a song and dance.

So what if it is a song and dance? They are trying to do the right thing for a player who got a major injury in the line of duty. Like Rick Smith said “Well, and that’s it: You’d like to say it’s business, but I don’t think you ever make a purely business decision. And so you see a kid working hard the way he has worked and you want to give him every opportunity..." But you would not think twice and cut him without doing everything the young man recover. What a great big heart you have. Things like this I think go over well with veterans and other FA who are looking to possibly sign with the Texans.

Honoring Earl 34
06-09-2008, 08:40 PM
So what if it is a song and dance? They are trying to do the right thing for a player who got a major injury in the line of duty. Like Rick Smith said “Well, and that’s it: You’d like to say it’s business, but I don’t think you ever make a purely business decision. And so you see a kid working hard the way he has worked and you want to give him every opportunity..." But you would not think twice and cut him without doing everything the young man recover. What a great big heart you have. Things like this I think go over well with veterans and other FA who are looking to possibly sign with the Texans.

I totally agree ... there have been teams that have totally trashed players and threw them away . I don't like that , it's to much like the Gulf Grayhound Park .

http://www.amazon.com/Youre-Its-Just-Bruise-Outrageous/dp/0312136277

CloakNNNdagger
06-09-2008, 10:31 PM
John McClain said Spencer's injury was equal to jumping out of a five story window and trying to land on your feet ... eeek .

I wish Cloak and Dagger was here to give an opinion . Mine is that it's just to risky now and it'll be to risky next year and so on .

As everyone else, I have hoped throughout his ordeal, Spencer would prevail. However, from the very first when I shared my thoughts on his injury, I tried to make it clear that his was a devastating one. For a smaller man, a return to normal gait could be considered a small miracle. For a man of Spencer's size, to be expected to return as a "gladiator" would be stretching even the miracle concept...........one that I'll be clinging to until the Texans have finally determined similar odds.

BattleRedToro
06-09-2008, 10:35 PM
John McClain said Spencer's injury was equal to jumping out of a five story window and trying to land on your feet ... eeek .

It could also be described as the kind of injury one might suffer for getting inbetween John McClain and a meal. :thisbig:

J-Russ
06-16-2008, 07:13 PM
(UPDATE: Monday June 16) - Reports indicate the Texans are close to releasing T Charles Spencer due to his broken leg that could possibly end his career.

http://blogs.chron.com/fanblogtexans/2008/06/texans_sign_veteran_lb_rosevel_1.html

I was really pulling for him too. Hope he can some how manage to play again. Good luck Spence, in whatever you decide to do.

Overalls
06-16-2008, 07:20 PM
This is really sad news. I was pulling for him to come through.

dalemurphy
06-16-2008, 07:30 PM
(UPDATE: Monday June 16) - Reports indicate the Texans are close to releasing T Charles Spencer due to his broken leg that could possibly end his career.

http://blogs.chron.com/fanblogtexans/2008/06/texans_sign_veteran_lb_rosevel_1.html

I was really pulling for him too. Hope he can some how manage to play again. Good luck Spence, in whatever you decide to do.

Who is this fan blog joker? That's some breaking news?

Maybe the Chronicle will publish my blogs/columns... here's a few:

Breaking news: The Texans are preparing to release 30 players before the end of training camp.

Breaking news: Kubiak is entering the 3rd year of his tenure in Houston.

Breaking news: Even without Dunta Robinson on the field, the Texans may employ some nickel and dime packages early in the season. That could mean some playing time for the rookie, Molden.