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badboy
06-02-2008, 08:06 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5813259.htmlGreat article on DT Frank Okam's adjustments to NFL. He has dropped weight from 347 and wants to lose another 5 to 295. Read Kube's comments as to how soon Okam will help.

Lucky
06-02-2008, 08:15 AM
He has worked hard during the past month, losing 5 pounds to drop to 330.
Okam is considering losing 5 more pounds before the season starts.

So Okam may get down to 325 lbs. 325, 330 - whatever it takes.

SOLIS
06-02-2008, 08:15 AM
Apparently dude said he mishandled his creatine intake heading into the combine which caused him to balloon to near 350. Apparently he's been busting his ass to get in better shape.

The good thing about Frank is that he has a naturally big frame. He will always have a wide body, no matter if he's playing at or below 330. I'd like to see him drill at both weights (330 vs 350) and see how different he looks coming out of his stance.

Vinny
06-02-2008, 08:19 AM
creatine binds water and big men can hold 10 pounds + of excess water when fully loaded with creatine....I know I used to hold a ton of water when I was loaded properly back when I was a heavy lifter.

DiehardChris
06-02-2008, 09:16 AM
Yeah, I'm sure the guy who's "too smart to play NFL football" didn't know how to read the label on his creatine. The guy was fat and out of shape - it happens to all of us, pro athletes or not. LOL

This guy's gonna be the steal of the draft, I tell ya. Travis Johnson better get his injury issues worked out, or he's gonna be watching from the bench.

BigBull17
06-02-2008, 09:16 AM
I was really stoked with the Okam pick. He is a player we needed. A big wall to soak up blockers and allow Demeco to make plays. I dont care what weight he plays at as long as he is comfortable with his weight and in good shape.

SOLIS
06-02-2008, 09:41 AM
Yeah, I'm sure the guy who's "too smart to play NFL football" didn't know how to read the label on his creatine. The guy was fat and out of shape - it happens to all of us, pro athletes or not. LOL

This guy's gonna be the steal of the draft, I tell ya. Travis Johnson better get his injury issues worked out, or he's gonna be watching from the bench.

Whadup Chris?

Yeah - I think he let his weight get away from him. I know I have to hit the gym hard after a season of Texans football... especially when the beers start pouring at noon on Sunday. Of course I usually end up at the neighbors at 3 to root for who ever the Cowpokes are playing. It makes for a looong day... but I wouldn't trade it for the world.

Man I miss football season.

DiehardChris
06-02-2008, 10:09 AM
Yeah, man. The darkest days are behind us now! We've turned the corner on June, and it won't be long before TC starts.... or something. Still, too far away for my taste.

The apparent re-dedication* of Frank Okam is one of those stories that can keep me from bashing my head into the wall. He's saying all the right things, and he sounds like a very humble kid in the way that he's talking about how he's not able to do the things he got away with at UT. He sounds as smart as advertised, and looks like he has a great work ethic.


*I really have no idea if Okam was ever really going to skip a football career for law school... to me, that sounds like a media-created 'story'.

False Start
06-02-2008, 10:22 AM
I really hope he turns out to be a steal . He wears # 79 , and thats not a bad number for a lineman ...............

http://supahz.250x.com/footballr/childress.jpg

SOLIS
06-02-2008, 10:24 AM
Yeah, man. The darkest days are behind us now! We've turned the corner on June, and it won't be long before TC starts.... or something. Still, too far away for my taste.

*I really have no idea if Okam was ever really going to skip a football career for law school... to me, that sounds like a media-created 'story'.

Naw... not the media. They'd never do that. LoL.

No, but for real, I think you're right on target with that one.

Hagar
06-02-2008, 10:33 AM
I'm all for being athletic and all, but we need size. I hope he's not asked to drop any more weight.

BigBull17
06-02-2008, 11:21 AM
I'm all for being athletic and all, but we need size. I hope he's not asked to drop any more weight.

He may. They already said that they want more athletic guys. Jethroe Franklin said they dont want space eaters. If he can play at 330 and quick, then game on.

thunderkyss
06-02-2008, 11:35 AM
http://images.chron.com/photos/2008/05/21/11508094/311xInlineGallery.jpg

Don't look like much of a run stopper anymore...

HOU-TEX
06-02-2008, 11:42 AM
http://images.chron.com/photos/2008/05/21/11508094/311xInlineGallery.jpg

Don't look like much of a run stopper anymore...

Being 6'5" kind of hides the weight. I've never really considered him to be a traditional "run-stopper". Hopefully he can help in both the run and pass rather than just being the fatty clogging in the middle. :)

adam
06-02-2008, 11:52 AM
That's good to hear. The weight loss just shows that he is working hard and is committed to giving it his all. I look forward to seeing him on the field. That said, one of the things I found interesting about him was his sheer size, someone that would eat up blocks and make things easier for the rest of the line. Only time will tell how his play is affected by his weight loss.

Polo
06-02-2008, 11:53 AM
I wouldn't lose too much sleep over 10-15 lbs...

thunderkyss
06-02-2008, 11:59 AM
Being 6'5" kind of hides the weight. I've never really considered him to be a traditional "run-stopper". Hopefully he can help in both the run and pass rather than just being the fatty clogging in the middle. :)

I'm not happy at all with him losing the weight. He "looked" like the run stopper we need, when we drafted him.

Carr Bombed
06-02-2008, 12:40 PM
I'm not happy at all with him losing the weight. He "looked" like the run stopper we need, when we drafted him.

He's still a big guy... Albert Haynesworth plays at 6'6 and 320 and is a great run stopper.

Frank Okam dropping a few lbs, isn't going to make him weaker, he's still going to be just as strong, but he's also going to be quicker and he'll have much more stamina that will allow him to make plays late in football games. I see no problem with him getting in better shape, it'll only help his game.

ObsiWan
06-02-2008, 01:22 PM
He's still a big guy... Albert Haynesworth plays at 6'6 and 320 and is a great run stopper.

Frank Okam dropping a few lbs, isn't going to make him weaker, he's still going to be just as strong, but he's also going to be quicker and he'll have much more stamina that will allow him to make plays late in football games. I see no problem with him getting in better shape, it'll only help his game.

I'm with you, CB. More stamina should translate into big plays in the fourth quarter.

badboy
06-02-2008, 03:48 PM
If at 6'5" and 330, Okam can not shed the block and tackle a smaller RB, I'll fall down giggling. He is still a lot of hombre. I am focusing on our 7th round picks. If Diles can start this year then Brink should start by 2010 or bring us a couple of first rounders. Way to go Smith! Greedy aren't I?

76Texan
06-02-2008, 04:13 PM
As I had mentioned in some earlier posts, Okam's weight didn't really hurt his stamina. He played with plenty of energy in the fourth quarter of all the 3 games I reviewed. (Granted, Mack Brown likes to rotate his DT.)
And especially for a guy who gets double team often, it's a good idea to give him a breather.

I also made a comment that I feel Okam's plays can be better if he can lose about 10-12 lbs. With a little more quickness, he'll be that much closer to the play (in the opponent's backfield, whether after the RB or QB.)

Manning doesn't appreciate a big guy up in his face.

Okam did not seem to rely mainly on power to shred the double team. It's also with the angle and his positioning.

Also, this confirm my obervation that Okam can be dirven off his base from the side, especially from an olineman in the ZBS.
Losing a few pounds (aside from learning more techniques) will help his agility such that he can keep his balance better, IMO.

pappy
06-02-2008, 06:56 PM
As I had mentioned in some earlier posts, Okam's weight didn't really hurt his stamina. He played with plenty of energy in the fourth quarter of all the 3 games I reviewed. (Granted, Mack Brown likes to rotate his DT.)
And especially for a guy who gets double team often, it's a good idea to give him a breather.

I also made a comment that I feel Okam's plays can be better if he can lose about 10-12 lbs. With a little more quickness, he'll be that much closer to the play (in the opponent's backfield, whether after the RB or QB.)

Manning doesn't appreciate a big guy up in his face.

Okam did not seem to rely mainly on power to shred the double team. It's also with the angle and his positioning.

Also, this confirm my obervation that Okam can be dirven off his base from the side, especially from an olineman in the ZBS.
Losing a few pounds (aside from learning more techniques) will help his agility such that he can keep his balance better, IMO.

Nice input and i agree but did you also see where okam commented that he is missing the running backs that are running outside on him . That he has to adjust to the much faster nfl backs and linemen that his size 6'6 and weight along with his technique had to be adjusted for him to be effective . Much of that probably deals with the angle and positioning observation you made . This could be also an observation that we are having some real good backs but only time will tell .

TEXANRED
06-02-2008, 07:53 PM
This is the most excited that I have ever been about a draft pick. If he can put together his size and speed as one package he could single handedly take over a game at the DT spot. Great defenses are built stopping the run and making the offense change there game plan.

I can't freakin wait for pre-season.

Texans_Chick
06-02-2008, 08:22 PM
To be honest, Okam is the player of the 2008 Texans draft class that I think is the most NFL game ready.

Brown - needs to work on technique
Molden - needs to work on technique
Slaton - situational guy, wonder if game translates to NFL
Adibi - not ideal size, no natural position on the team
Barber - yet another strong safety
Brink - if the Texans see much from him this year, they are in trouble

That's not to say I don't like these guys, and I will acknowledge that Okam needs to work on technique and conditioning but....

He suits a bigtime need for the team.
He has played against top competition and has done well. He has NFL body size and background, has played through pain, and has been a leader on the field and locker room.

The player already on the team that Okam reminds me of is Eric Winston. Productive college career for a big time program, unexpectedly dropped in the draft. Some people thought that he didn't interview well--I think Winston might have been a bit misunderstood like Okam was.

The Texans have picked a lot of projected, developmental upside guys in the past, but some of their best picks have been smart players from big programs who were productive in college.

Vinny
06-03-2008, 08:34 AM
http://images.chron.com/photos/2008/05/21/11508094/311xInlineGallery.jpg

Don't look like much of a run stopper anymore...
6'5" and 330 doesn't look like a run stopper? good grief

awtysst
06-03-2008, 08:57 AM
6'5" and 330 doesn't look like a run stopper? good grief

Maybe he would prefer to see us utilize Fiamalu Penitani as our DT run stopper. He is 6'3.5 and 520 lbs. Now THATS a run stopper.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/dailypix/2006/Jul/02/sesq5akebono_b.jpg

Vinny
06-03-2008, 09:10 AM
Maybe he would prefer to see us utilize Fiamalu Penitani as our DT run stopper. He is 6'3.5 and 520 lbs. Now THATS a run stopper.

for one play. not directed to you, but being fat isn't the definitive quality for run stoppage.

hookinreds
06-03-2008, 09:16 AM
for one play. not directed to you, but being fat isn't the definitive quality for run stoppage.

To stop the runs, I recommend Kaopectate, Pepto Bismol or Immodium.:shades:

thunderkyss
06-03-2008, 09:51 AM
http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/48/480535.jpg http://www.prideofdetroit.com/images/admin/SRGone.jpg

http://www.sportech.info/wp-content/upload/traylor.jpg

PHAROAH
06-03-2008, 10:35 AM
I think that Frank is going to eventually beat out DT -Travis Johnson for some odd reason. Travis doesn't stay in shape and I think that F. Okam has more to his game than just being a run stopper he was able to apply pressure on the QB while at UT.

Lucky
06-03-2008, 10:49 AM
Pictures of rotund vet DTs
Okam is a rookie. The guys you posted didn't enter the league with such a full figure. They worked at it over the years.

Overalls
06-03-2008, 11:40 AM
Okam is a rookie. The guys you posted didn't enter the league with such a full figure. They worked at it over the years.

I agree. It took me almost 42 years to get as fat as I am.

:fans:

awtysst
06-03-2008, 11:51 AM
for one play. not directed to you, but being fat isn't the definitive quality for run stoppage.

Oh I know Vinny. The reason I suggested Fiamalu Penitani is because as a Sumo champion(Yokozuna) he needed to be able to be agile on his feet and be able to absorb the power from another sumo. Part of my response was being a little ridiculous the other was to point out how some very large athletes are more agile than some of our players.

Carr Bombed
06-03-2008, 12:55 PM
http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/48/480535.jpg http://www.prideofdetroit.com/images/admin/SRGone.jpg

http://www.sportech.info/wp-content/upload/traylor.jpg

Pat Williams (the guy your pimping, weighs 317 pounds.......much lighter than Frank Okam)

and Keith Traylor was so great he only played for 7 different teams through out his career.

As far as Shaun Rodgers, the Lions thought so much of him they decided to let him go........big fat guys are a dime a dozen, big DTs that can stop the run, but are also athletic enough to be a factor against the pass......not so much.

Frank Okam has too much potential than just being situational fat a**, the guy has the ability to be a great player and a probowler. Again 6'5 330 is not too light to stop the run.....after all your hero Pat Williams plays at 13 pounds under that weight and the other guys you listed only weigh 10 pounds more..........do you really think 10 pounds on a 6'5 frame makes a damn bit of difference?

Lucky
06-03-2008, 12:59 PM
Pat Williams (the guy your pimping, weighs 317 pounds....
Pat Williams weighed 317 lbs several hundred pizzas ago.

False Start
06-03-2008, 01:02 PM
Let us not forget the great , Gilbert Brown ............

http://www.greenandgoldexperience.com/images/gilbert_brown.jpg

Real big fat guys never seem to last long . There are exceptions . Shedding some pounds is a good thing IMO .

Carr Bombed
06-03-2008, 01:10 PM
Pat Williams weighed 317 lbs several hundred pizzas ago.

http://www.nfl.com/players/patwilliams/profile?id=WIL462033

He must've up chucked those pizzas.

HOU-TEX
06-03-2008, 01:13 PM
Y'all don't forget about me.

Signed,

6'1" 325lbs

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/john_donovan/02/02/steelers.dline/t1_hampton_all.jpg

Carr Bombed
06-03-2008, 01:21 PM
Y'all don't forget about me.

Signed,

6'1" 325lbs

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/john_donovan/02/02/steelers.dline/t1_hampton_all.jpg

too bad we no longer play a 3-4 defense. Casey Hampton is the best NT in the league.

TEXANRED
06-03-2008, 02:04 PM
To stop the runs, I recommend Kaopectate, Pepto Bismol or Immodium.:shades:

I hear the cheerleaders are working on the Pepto dance when the Defense is on the field.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e_qicYkBpQ

Lucky
06-03-2008, 02:21 PM
He must've up chucked those pizzas.
Listed weights aren't necessarily actual weights. That was probably the weight Williams came in as a rookie. Take a good look at Pat. Does he really look like a 317 lber?

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0121/tmq_a_wiliams_200.jpg

thunderkyss
06-03-2008, 02:27 PM
Pat Williams (the guy your pimping, weighs 317 pounds.......much lighter than Frank Okam)

and Keith Traylor was so great he only played for 7 different teams through out his career.

As far as Shaun Rodgers, the Lions thought so much of him they decided to let him go........big fat guys are a dime a dozen, big DTs that can stop the run, but are also athletic enough to be a factor against the pass......not so much.

Frank Okam has too much potential than just being situational fat a**, the guy has the ability to be a great player and a probowler. Again 6'5 330 is not too light to stop the run.....after all your hero Pat Williams plays at 13 pounds under that weight and the other guys you listed only weigh 10 pounds more..........do you really think 10 pounds on a 6'5 frame makes a damn bit of difference?

Just like running backs, it's not just weight. It's weight, height, and build. Wide bodies.. go look back through the thread that was started when we found out we got Okam.... A big wide body, that is athletic.. that's what we wanted, and that's what we had.


If he loses any more weight, at 6'5, we might as well move him to defensive end.

Carr Bombed
06-03-2008, 04:19 PM
Listed weights aren't necessarily actual weights. That was probably the weight Williams came in as a rookie. Take a good look at Pat. Does he really look like a 317 lber?

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0121/tmq_a_wiliams_200.jpg

NFL.com does a decent job at adding weight to players since their rookie years, both Westbrook and Portis have been credited at adding weight on that site, so that's not his rookie weight. (hell, look at the job they've already done on Okam, he's listed at 320, while he officially weighed in at 347 during the combine a couple of months ago......the site does a great job at updating it's info.)

Pat is a short guy and while he probably weighs a little over 317, it's not by much.....he looks about 20 pounds heavier than Amobi Okoye who's listed at 302

Carr Bombed
06-03-2008, 04:22 PM
If he loses any more weight, at 6'5, we might as well move him to defensive end.


Yeah, because there's a run on 325 pound DEs aroung the league. :rolleyes: Frank Okam is still a big dude and always will be.

There's nothing wrong with Okam getting in shape......I'd rather him be at a playing weight that will allow him to be a playmaker than just being a fat a** who is nothing but a situational player. The Houston Texans have experts on staff that know all about "playing weight" and yet they are encouraging Okam to LOSE WEIGHT.......that should tell you all you need to know about what weight he should be at.

Fox
06-03-2008, 04:46 PM
Okam is one big dude, and he'll be much more effective at a fit 330 than he was as a flabby 347. Of all of the things the Texans have to be concerned over this off-season, Frank Okam being too small is probably not very high on the list.

76Texan
06-03-2008, 05:51 PM
As long as Okam can do this, he will be just fine:

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/07phbu11UZ3pQ/340x.jpg

76Texan
06-03-2008, 05:52 PM
And I hope he does this:

http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2007/12/03/sp_niners103.jpg

NBT
06-03-2008, 06:37 PM
Diles is a LB. Little different adjustment for a QB, IMO. If Brinks is good enough to stash on the P.S. this year, I will be satisfied.

NBT
06-03-2008, 06:38 PM
Isn't creatine a steroid? Or am I mistaken?

TEXANRED
06-03-2008, 06:41 PM
Isn't creatine a steroid? Or am I mistaken?

Your mistaken. Creatine makes you retain water and bulk. You can find it at any GNC. Some say it adds strength, I disagree, just makes me bloat.

The Pencil Neck
06-03-2008, 11:38 PM
Isn't creatine a steroid? Or am I mistaken?

No. Creatine is not a steroid. It's not even a prohormone like androstenedione or androstenediol. It's a totally different type of compound. Taking creatine is like taking a protein supplement. Personally, it's never done anything for me. It doesn't make me bloat and it doesn't make me gain weight and it doesn't make me 1 iota stronger.

I lift in drug-tested federations. Creatine is totally legal. I could take as much creatine before the meet as I wanted... because it's not really a performance enhancing drug.

Vinny
06-05-2008, 12:35 PM
Your mistaken. Creatine makes you retain water and bulk. You can find it at any GNC. Some say it adds strength, I disagree, just makes me bloat.for strength athletes, the advantage you get with creative is that it super-hydrates your muscles so in theory you can work your muscles harder when training. So, while the substance doesn't make you stronger it puts your muscles in a "training state"...but once off of the creatine you lose all the water weight that your muscles soak up while on the substance....fwiw, creatine is a naturally occurring substance found in red meats and it is perfectly natural (except that it is very "unnatural" when you "load" massive amounts into your body via supplementation).

Vinny
06-05-2008, 12:37 PM
Just like running backs, it's not just weight. It's weight, height, and build. Wide bodies.. go look back through the thread that was started when we found out we got Okam.... A big wide body, that is athletic.. that's what we wanted, and that's what we had.


If he loses any more weight, at 6'5, we might as well move him to defensive end.guys like Marcus Stroud are great run stoppers but don't have to have a big fat gut to do it. Frankly being that fat limits your snaps and your wind and you are only effective at the start of games or in spot duty since you can't take a series without needing to catch your breath.

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/76825366.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1937EB7531422ED89F636DDE69C1BC513D7 284831B75F48EF45

Hagar
06-05-2008, 12:51 PM
I don't mind Okam losing a little weight; it'll help his athleticism. But, we have several small DT in the 300 to 310 lbs. range we don't need another. Also, don't kid yourself; having an extra 20 lbs. is a huge advantage when it comes to moving people around in the trenches.

Vinny
06-05-2008, 12:55 PM
I don't mind Okam losing a little weight; it'll help his athleticism. But, we have several small DT in the 300 to 310 lbs. range we don't need another. Also, don't kid yourself; having an extra 20 lbs. is a huge advantage when it comes to moving people around in the trenches.
Okam isn't a pumped up 260 pounder...he's a legit 300lb+ NFL lineman bodytype. I don't think we will have to worry he will end up looking like Jason Taylor if he chooses the chicken caesar salad at McDonalds too often.

Specnatz
06-05-2008, 12:55 PM
I don't mind Okam losing a little weight; it'll help his athleticism. But, we have several small DT in the 300 to 310 lbs. range we don't need another. Also, don't kid yourself; having an extra 20 lbs. is a huge advantage when it comes to moving people around in the trenches.

If it is 20lbs of muscle or a combination of muscle and fat. Just adding fat does nothing for ones ability to move someone around in the trenches.

Vinny
06-05-2008, 12:57 PM
If it is 20lbs of muscle or a combination of muscle and fat. Just adding fat does nothing for ones ability to move someone around in the trenches.well, it does give you more anchor and makes you harder to move, so the extra bulk does mean "something"...but people getting all worried about him at being "only" 330 are overthinking this methinks.

GuerillaBlack
06-05-2008, 01:05 PM
For real. I would like him down at 310-320 or so. 330 on up is too big.

thunderkyss
06-05-2008, 01:07 PM
well, it does give you more anchor and makes you harder to move, so the extra bulk does mean "something"...but people getting all worried about him at being "only" 330 are overthinking this methinks.

First let me say, I'm wrong. for some reason, I remember watching a UT game, and I remembered Frank Okam having the physique of Warren Sapp.

http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/image_lib/okam_frank_080906_300.jpg

and you're right, going from 347 to 330 couldn't possibly have changed him that much.

Specnatz
06-05-2008, 01:25 PM
well, it does give you more anchor and makes you harder to move, so the extra bulk does mean "something"...but people getting all worried about him at being "only" 330 are overthinking this methinks.

You are right but I was also going by the not just them moving you but you also having the ability to move them. Muscle plus fat is a good thing.

HOU-TEX
06-05-2008, 01:31 PM
You are right but I was also going by the not just them moving you but you also having the ability to move them. Muscle plus fat is a good thing.

Muscle + Fat + Quickness = Even better thing

Honestly, this talk about size/weight is moot if the agility and quickness is missing. We'll find out more in TC, but for now I don't care how fat he is. I just want him to help this team.

:texflag:

badboy
06-05-2008, 03:36 PM
As long as Okam can do this, he will be just fine:

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/07phbu11UZ3pQ/340x.jpgHeheh, I am going to catch that skinny running back and I can do it on one foot. Hey coach? Watch me. Watch me.

76Texan
06-05-2008, 04:31 PM
Does any UT fan knows about his playing weight throughout the years?

I've seen him listed at 320 lbs on a few websites.

NFL Draft Scout specifically had him at 347 lbs at the combine, and at 320 lbs before combine.

And I agree that if the Texans personnel think he should be playing at a certain weight range to fit a particular role the coaches have in mind for him, then he should try that.

IMO, Okam can play both the run and the pass. And if so, the lower weight would probably help him more.

In that case, when Okam is ready, we may even trade away TJ (not that I don't support the guy) to save money for another spot (in FA) next year.
It's just business! :fans:

Carr Bombed
06-05-2008, 04:56 PM
In that case, when Okam is ready, we may even trade away TJ (not that I don't support the guy) to save money for another spot (in FA) next year.
It's just business! :fans:

I don't really think TJ has any real trade value, outside of some good plays last year he really hasn't been anything steller or consistent and thanks to the "Trent Green incident", he probably carries a bad rap around the league. He's probably is alot more valuable to the Texans as a rotational guy than anything Houston is going to get back for him. Amobi is still light in the britches so it wouldn't be a bad idea to go with Okam and TJ in the middle on obvious running situations. Then once Johnson's contract is up and if Okam turns out to be a legit player, TJ will probably just walk on to FA.

76Texan
06-05-2008, 05:16 PM
Uhmm, I think TJ's contract runs through 2011:specnatz:

ATXtexanfan
06-05-2008, 06:20 PM
I don't really think TJ has any real trade value, outside of some good plays last year he really hasn't been anything steller or consistent and thanks to the "Trent Green incident", he probably carries a bad rap around the league. He's probably is alot more valuable to the Texans as a rotational guy than anything Houston is going to get back for him. Amobi is still light in the britches so it wouldn't be a bad idea to go with Okam and TJ in the middle on obvious running situations. Then once Johnson's contract is up and if Okam turns out to be a legit player, TJ will probably just walk on to FA.

agree, tj is what he is, he can't do more than what he's already doing. agree with the okam-tj combo, tj won't live up to the 1st rd hype, a 2nd or 3rd would have suited him. his contract isn't up anytime soon though

ATX
06-05-2008, 06:48 PM
Anyone know if Okam was in the middle of the Lendale White 4th and 1 stuff back in the Rose Bowl?

Carr Bombed
06-05-2008, 07:02 PM
his contract isn't up anytime soon though

Well, he's still under his rookie contract so he's not really killing the cap, plus with the way this staff likes to rotate players on the Dline the depth is nice.

Carr Bombed
06-05-2008, 07:26 PM
Anyone know if Okam was in the middle of the Lendale White 4th and 1 stuff back in the Rose Bowl?

According to this site (scroll towards the bottom.....lots of info on that one play) http://www.trojanfootballanalysis.com/rose_bowl_4th_2.html (where a upset USC fan has spent hours breaking down that one play) Okam wasn't even on the field...

ATXtexanfan
06-05-2008, 07:27 PM
Well, he's still under his rookie contract so he's not really killing the cap, plus with the way this staff likes to rotate players on the Dline the depth is nice.

agree

ATX
06-05-2008, 08:02 PM
According to this site (scroll towards the bottom.....lots of info on that one play) http://www.trojanfootballanalysis.com/rose_bowl_4th_2.html (where a upset USC fan has spent hours breaking down that one play) Okam wasn't even on the field...

Ughh, that's got to be painful to re-watch if you're a USC fan. It's like breaking down 35-3...........

Polo
06-06-2008, 09:23 AM
well, it does give you more anchor and makes you harder to move, so the extra bulk does mean "something"...but people getting all worried about him at being "only" 330 are overthinking this methinks.

I agree.....

I think the added weight you get from fat making you harder to move is negated by the fact that your wind is shortened, you aren't as athletic, it doesn't make you stronger and it's bad for your health...

I don't think Okam losing a little weight while he's still in his twenties will be a bad thing for him long term...

Polo
06-06-2008, 09:30 AM
And there's no way Okam is taking TJ's spot...LOL @ that..

I know folks have this dislike for TJ or whatever, but if you remove the guy from our DT rotation they'd be a pretty sad bunch....He's the best DT on the team right now...iiwii....

thunderkyss
06-06-2008, 10:00 AM
And there's no way Okam is taking TJ's spot...LOL @ that..

I know folks have this dislike for TJ or whatever, but if you remove the guy from our DT rotation they'd be a pretty sad bunch....He's the best DT on the team right now...iiwii....

If Okam can play like we hope he can, he'll earn a starting spot. There are only two spots. Kubiak's boy, and TJ... Unless TJ has a ProBowl year, he's the odd man out.

Specnatz
06-06-2008, 10:30 AM
And there's no way Okam is taking TJ's spot...LOL @ that..

I know folks have this dislike for TJ or whatever, but if you remove the guy from our DT rotation they'd be a pretty sad bunch....He's the best DT on the team right now...iiwii....

If Okam can play like we hope he can, he'll earn a starting spot. There are only two spots. Kubiak's boy, and TJ... Unless TJ has a ProBowl year, he's the odd man out.

Rotation versus starting is two completely different things. The deffense does need the space eater in there especially on running downs. TJ can easily fill in at either DT spot, I do not think he is very good at one in particular so as a breather type guy he is not bad if that is how he is used.

cuppacoffee
06-06-2008, 10:30 AM
And there's no way Okam is taking TJ's spot...LOL @ that..

I know folks have this dislike for TJ or whatever, but if you remove the guy from our DT rotation they'd be a pretty sad bunch....He's the best DT on the team right now...iiwii....



The voice of one crying out in the wilderness...listen to him and believe.

The Trent Greene 'episode' was a good thing in my book. A Houston Texan finally showed some life. Go get em TJ.

Penalty be damned...don't put up with any b.s. from anyone/anytime.

:coffee:

Polo
06-06-2008, 11:04 AM
If Okam can play like we hope he can, he'll earn a starting spot. There are only two spots. Kubiak's boy, and TJ... Unless TJ has a ProBowl year, he's the odd man out.

If any player played like we hoped they could we'd have a team full of pro-bowlers.

Could care less about who's boy is who...Kubiak will play the best players...He's proven that...

I seriously doubt Okam outplays T.J. in his first year as a pro, if ever....The potential is definitely there, but the strange itching desire that some have to get rid of TJ is clouding judgement on both players...Building Okam up better than he'll probably be in his first year, and not giving TJ his due....

I like Okam and think he'll be great for our team....

I just don't see him taking a whole lotta snaps away from anyone...Especially not this year...

Polo
06-06-2008, 11:07 AM
Rotation versus starting is two completely different things. The deffense does need the space eater in there especially on running downs. TJ can easily fill in at either DT spot, I do not think he is very good at one in particular so as a breather type guy he is not bad if that is how he is used.


No way is Okam starting over TJ.

You guys may as well get that outta yer heads.

Specnatz
06-06-2008, 11:18 AM
No way is Okam starting over TJ.

You guys may as well get that outta yer heads.

Why? Because you said so? The he will not start get it out of your heads argument went out about the time because I said so argument my mom used to use.

Polo
06-06-2008, 11:49 AM
Why? Because you said so?

No.

Because he's not going to be better than him.

ObsiWan
06-06-2008, 12:01 PM
T.J.'s health may make the decision.

badboy
06-06-2008, 12:02 PM
If any player played like we hoped they could we'd have a team full of pro-bowlers.

Could care less about who's boy is who...Kubiak will play the best players...He's proven that...

I seriously doubt Okam outplays T.J. in his first year as a pro, if ever....The potential is definitely there, but the strange itching desire that some have to get rid of TJ is clouding judgement on both players...Building Okam up better than he'll probably be in his first year, and not giving TJ his due....

I like Okam and think he'll be great for our team....

I just don't see him taking a whole lotta snaps away from anyone...Especially not this year...
Agreed

dalemurphy
06-06-2008, 12:10 PM
No way is Okam starting over TJ.

You guys may as well get that outta yer heads.

Probably, but if he makes the active roster, he'll be replacing TJ or Okoye on short yardage downs. That, I promise.

Polo
06-06-2008, 01:21 PM
Probably, but if he makes the active roster, he'll be replacing TJ or Okoye on short yardage downs. That, I promise.

He'll make the active roster...And he'll get his snaps....

I don't know what they're going to do on short yardage....They left Amobi in there on several occasions last year...

I really think Okam is just going to be another body in the rotation next year...I don't see him having any specialized roles pertaining to short yardage situations until he's proven that he can actually be counted on to do that on a consistent basis on this level...

Right now all you have is a big, strong, athletic guy with lots of potential...

He's still a rookie, and he's still lacking technique and experience...

I definitely think he's good enough to be in the rotation, but I don't see him right of the back being "that" go to guy when we need to not give up an inch...

TEXANRED
06-06-2008, 04:30 PM
And there's no way Okam is taking TJ's spot...LOL @ that..

I know folks have this dislike for TJ or whatever, but if you remove the guy from our DT rotation they'd be a pretty sad bunch....He's the best DT on the team right now...iiwii....

TJ is a three technique playing in a two technique spot. Okam is the real deal as a two tech tackle and needs to start ahead of TJ, and TJ is not better than Amobi.

But, TJ is good depth and valuable to our rotation.

TEXANRED
06-06-2008, 04:34 PM
No way is Okam starting over TJ.

You guys may as well get that outta yer heads.

Why not? What does TJ bring to the table that makes this defense better? Nothing. He is not a run stopper and he is not a pass rusher. In fact he was in danger of getting cut last year before camp.

TJ is good depth and thats all.

michaelm
06-07-2008, 02:46 AM
Some players can't lose weight no matter how hard they try.
Others can't gain weight no matter how hard they try.
Okam is showing us that he has a legitimate weight range of at least 20lbs. If he can maintain the weight that the coaches think he'll play best at, I'm all for making adjustments.
At least he's already used to playing in our Texas heat. I'm about a sandwich and a half shy of Okam's weight, and the heat absolutely kills me...

BattleRedToro
06-07-2008, 07:11 AM
T.J.'s health may make the decision.

This certainly seems likely as TJ is currently having pelvic problems. I hope he gets better soon. Whether or not he is replaced by Okam, the competition will make both of them better.

TJ is a three technique playing in a two technique spot. Okam is the real deal as a two tech tackle and needs to start ahead of TJ, and TJ is not better than Amobi.

But, TJ is good depth and valuable to our rotation.

This is absolutely true with respect to TJ having to play out of position. I hope that Okam does improve enough during training camp to allow him to play most of the 2-Technique snaps while Okoye takes most of the 3-Technique snaps and TJ takes most of the rest of the snaps at those 2 positions as a quality player in the rotation. If the Texans had another big body DT then they could rotate Okam and him at the 2 Technique and Okoye and TJ would only rotate at the 3 Technique position.

On a slightly different note I'm not really fond of the idea of moving Weaver inside to the 3 Technique on obvious passing downs if it means removing Okoye from the field. I feel like Okoye gives the Texans a much better rush from the inside than does Weaver. I'm fine with moving Weaver out of the LDE spot during those downs to make room for a pass rush specialist. I just think he should be moved to the bench not to Okoye's spot, unless okoye needs a breather.

b0ng
06-07-2008, 09:42 AM
No.

Because he's not going to be better than him.

This post is pretty much based on nothing but your opinion, but you state it as though it is fact. It is not sir.

I agree with Texanred that TJ is playing out of position in the 2 Tech spot because he was drafted as an "undertackle" which is vaguely like a warren sapp type of interior defensive lineman. Well now Okoye pretty much has that spot sewn up, and had it sewn up ever since he was a rookie, which says something about TJ to me.

He's been lazy, unmotivated, and close to being cut at times throughout his short career as a Texan, and that's as a 1st round pick. He's also played with emotion and fire, and actually looked like he was improving into becoming a "Starting lineup" type player in his 3rd year. And now he's got pelvis problems. I don't think Okam is just going to up and take his spot at NT as a rookie, but I bet TJ will be on the field less thisyear than he was last year. You can almost count on it now that Okam is getting all of his reps.

threetoedpete
06-07-2008, 11:14 AM
Some players can't lose weight no matter how hard they try.
Others can't gain weight no matter how hard they try.
Okam is showing us that he has a legitimate weight range of at least 20lbs. If he can maintain the weight that the coaches think he'll play best at, I'm all for making adjustments.
At least he's already used to playing in our Texas heat. I'm about a sandwich and a half shy of Okam's weight, and the heat absolutely kills me...

What is Travis Johnson's cap # ? TJ might just get caught up in a numbers move.

If Smithiack is happy with Okam's weight, then I'm happy with it. Team's will have a choice of running into the wall on the left or the beasties to the right on first and second downs.

What I'm thinking here is TJ has value as a young 3-4 DE. That is what he was drafted for. Do a sign and trade and salvage an '09 pick.

NBT
06-07-2008, 12:23 PM
TJ will be there, as will Okam. If this works the way I hope it does, each will spell the other, and the run defense will improve 10 fold.

cuppacoffee
06-07-2008, 01:41 PM
This post is pretty much based on nothing but your opinion, but you state it as though it is fact. It is not sir.

I agree with Texanred that TJ is playing out of position in the 2 Tech spot because he was drafted as an "undertackle" which is vaguely like a warren sapp type of interior defensive lineman. Well now Okoye pretty much has that spot sewn up, and had it sewn up ever since he was a rookie, which says something about TJ to me.
He's been lazy, unmotivated, and close to being cut at times throughout his short career as a Texan, and that's as a 1st round pick. He's also played with emotion and fire, and actually looked like he was improving into becoming a "Starting lineup" type player in his 3rd year. And now he's got pelvis problems. I don't think Okam is just going to up and take his spot at NT as a rookie, but I bet TJ will be on the field less thisyear than he was last year. You can almost count on it now that Okam is getting all of his reps.


Just message board gossip. :listening

Enough people parrot it and first thing you know its becomes fact.


:coffee:

ObsiWan
06-07-2008, 02:06 PM
Just message board gossip. :listening

Enough people parrot it and first thing you know its becomes fact.


:coffee:

Hey!
Watch it now.
At ESPN, that's called "In depth analysis".

b0ng
06-07-2008, 02:08 PM
Just message board gossip. :listening

Enough people parrot it and first thing you know its becomes fact.


:coffee:

Here's proof that you don't know what you're talking about (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5017185.html)

For people who don't want to click the link, I'll just give the headline to the story:

Johnson heeds warning
Kubiak's words strike chord with Texans tackle

Polo
06-08-2008, 02:08 AM
Lotta guys gonna be dissapointed when Okam doesn't up root TJ...

*DISCLAIMER*

Yes this is opinion. :rolleyes:

Amobi's gonna have to step his game up to get to TJ's level...I think he will...

Just sayin...If Amobi wasn't better than Travis last year, why would Okam come in and be better than either....Again...This is opinion...

b0ng
06-08-2008, 02:35 AM
Amobi's gonna have to step his game up to get to TJ's level...I think he will...

Just sayin...If Amobi wasn't better than Travis last year, why would Okam come in and be better than either....Again...This is opinion...

Amobi wasn't better than Travis last year

Amobi wasn't better than Travis

:spit:

HJam72
06-08-2008, 02:39 AM
Hey, I heard that if we say something on this message board enough it will become truth.

We're gonna win the Super Bowl this year!!! :fans:

b0ng
06-08-2008, 02:50 AM
Hey, I heard that if we say something on this message board enough it will become truth.

We're gonna win the Super Bowl this year!!! :fans:

Mario Williams will be the next LT/Deacon Jones/Bruce Smith/Reggie White.

He will have approximately 495.5 sacks in his career.

dalemurphy
06-08-2008, 08:01 AM
Hey, I heard that if we say something on this message board enough it will become truth.

We're gonna win the Super Bowl this year!!! :fans:


Peyton Manning will shock everyone and retire before the season. He's simply burned out. The Colts will replace him with David Carr, who they believe have the talent to take them to another Superbowl.

HJam72
06-08-2008, 08:52 AM
Peyton Manning will shock everyone and retire before the season. He's simply burned out. The Colts will replace him with David Carr, who they believe have the talent to take them to another Superbowl.

Just imagine how sick we'd all be if it actually happened--if some coach on a divisional rival actually found a way to get his head straight. :gun:

TEXANRED
06-08-2008, 10:13 AM
Peyton Manning will shock everyone and retire before the season. He's simply burned out. The Colts will replace him with David Carr, who they believe have the talent to take them to another Superbowl.

I was just reading the Colts message board and they are saying that Payton may retire so he can head the Eli Manning fan club.

There are also reports that a deal is in the works between the Colts and Giants for David Carr. Eli has reported to have said that David Carr bought VY's "IT" off EBAY.

Polo
06-08-2008, 11:34 AM
yeah....

I'll be coming back to this thread towards the end of the year for a good laugh....

Okam starting over TJ this yr....LMAO!

ObsiWan
06-08-2008, 11:45 AM
Just imagine how sick we'd all be if it actually happened--if some coach on a divisional rival actually found a way to get his head straight. :gun:

Sigmund Freud couldn't get that boy's head straight
okay, maybe he could get his head straight but Freud was a lousy football coach. I think he still believes in the Veer

TexanSam
06-08-2008, 12:27 PM
yeah....

I'll be coming back to this thread towards the end of the year for a good laugh....

Okam starting over TJ this yr....LMAO!

Probably not at the beginning of the year, but if Okam improves over the course of the season then I wouldn't be surprised to see him start at some point.

b0ng
06-08-2008, 01:31 PM
yeah....

I'll be coming back to this thread towards the end of the year for a good laugh....

Okam starting over TJ this yr....LMAO!

Okay buddy thanks for the input!

barrett
06-08-2008, 01:49 PM
they are different types of players with different skill sets. it's not even remotely unreasonable to think that okam could start instead of TJ. it could depend completely on who is lined up across from them as much as anything else.

BigTimeTexanFan
06-08-2008, 01:58 PM
Sigmund Freud couldn't get that boy's head straight
okay, maybe he could get his head straight but Freud was a lousy football coach. I think he still believes in the Veer
I wonder what Freud would say about his white gloves?

Polo
06-08-2008, 02:32 PM
Guys....

Think about it....

Expecting Okam to start is expecting a fifth rd. rookie with a mediocre college career to come in and take the place of a guy who was our best DT last yr...

Even if TJ weren't the DT in question, Okam would have a hard time supplanting whoever it was...

He's a fifth rd rookie who had a so-so college career and you guys think he's gonna come in here and be a legit run stopping space eating, not gonna give up an inch DT ?

LMAO!!!

Okam will be a good body to have in the rotation next yr...

I think folks are letting their dislike or bias towards TJ cloud their judgement...

He's actually a really good ball player...Too bad y'all refuse to see that///

TexanSam
06-08-2008, 04:40 PM
Guys....

Think about it....

Expecting Okam to start is expecting a fifth rd. rookie with a mediocre college career to come in and take the place of a guy who was our best DT last yr...

Even if TJ weren't the DT in question, Okam would have a hard time supplanting whoever it was...

He's a fifth rd rookie who had a so-so college career and you guys think he's gonna come in here and be a legit run stopping space eating, not gonna give up an inch DT ?

LMAO!!!

Okam will be a good body to have in the rotation next yr...

I think folks are letting their dislike or bias towards TJ cloud their judgement...

He's actually a really good ball player...Too bad y'all refuse to see that///

There's a difference between having an average player who had a so-so career and a talented player that had a so-so career. Okam is extremely talented. He is probably more talented than Travis Johnson. What the Texans have to do is allow him to use that talent to his advantage. I think Okam is going to do extremely well with the Texans and will eventually supplant Travis Johnson. Maybe not this year (though I wouldn't be completely surprised if he did) but in time I think he will.

As far as TJ being a really good player, I wouldn't go that far. He's an average NFL defensive tackle. Not great. Not awful. Just average.

PapaL
06-08-2008, 07:19 PM
There's a difference between having an average player who had a so-so career and a talented player that had a so-so career. Okam is extremely talented. He is probably more talented than Travis Johnson. What the Texans have to do is allow him to use that talent to his advantage. I think Okam is going to do extremely well with the Texans and will eventually supplant Travis Johnson. Maybe not this year (though I wouldn't be completely surprised if he did) but in time I think he will.

As far as TJ being a really good player, I wouldn't go that far. He's an average NFL defensive tackle. Not great. Not awful. Just average.

I think everyone in the NFL is extremely talented, or rather was once believed to be extremely talented. Only a handful can take that talent and do something with it in the pros. TJ had a successful run in college and is more than adequate in the pros (like most college stars).
Both guys will be given a chance and let the better man win. Or ideally for us they feed off of each other and the rotation becomes an overnight success.

GuerillaBlack
06-08-2008, 07:53 PM
TJ is just average at best in the pros. I guess that is all we need from him right now.

b0ng
06-08-2008, 08:07 PM
Guys....

Think about it....

Expecting Okam to start is expecting a fifth rd. rookie with a mediocre college career to come in and take the place of a guy who was our best DT last yr...

Even if TJ weren't the DT in question, Okam would have a hard time supplanting whoever it was...

He's a fifth rd rookie who had a so-so college career and you guys think he's gonna come in here and be a legit run stopping space eating, not gonna give up an inch DT ?

LMAO!!!

Okam will be a good body to have in the rotation next yr...

I think folks are letting their dislike or bias towards TJ cloud their judgement...

He's actually a really good ball player...Too bad y'all refuse to see that///

I'm glad TJ has a fan and all but you sound kind of like a goober when you state everything as though you have seen the future.

Fact is, if TJ was such a great player Frank Okam probably wouldn't have been drafted at all.

EDIT: Or Amobi Okoye for that matter.

cuppacoffee
06-08-2008, 10:43 PM
Here's proof that you don't know what you're talking about (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5017185.html)

For people who don't want to click the link, I'll just give the headline to the story:

Johnson heeds warning
Kubiak's words strike chord with Texans tackle



I cliked on the link and got houston chronicle.com but then a message that the site could not be opened. Maybe you have to be registered to read the site. idonno:

Could you provide a quote from the article where Kubiak states that TJ has been lazy, unmotivated, and close to being cut.

Or was that just the words/opinion of the writer?

All you TJ haters :thumbdown are going to have to do some "polagizin" to TJ this year. :embarrass

:D

:coffee:

b0ng
06-08-2008, 11:32 PM
I cliked on the link and got houston chronicle.com but then a message that the site could not be opened. Maybe you have to be registered to read the site. idonno:

Could you provide a quote from the article where Kubiak states that TJ has been lazy, unmotivated, and close to being cut.

Or was that just the words/opinion of the writer?

All you TJ haters :thumbdown are going to have to do some "polagizin" to TJ this year. :embarrass

:D

:coffee:

Okay, I'll believe you. Here you go:

In the offseason, coach Gary Kubiak called in defensive tackle Travis Johnson and told him the Texans staff was not happy with his work ethic or his conditioning, and if the former No. 1 pick wanted to be part of this season's team he would have to change his approach.

Kubiak got Johnson's attention.

"They said they weren't pleased with the way I was working, so I figured I'd just take it back to the old school, take it back to what got me here," Johnson, 25, said. "So while everyone else was still drooling on the pillow, I got up at 4:30, got to the stadium at 5 and started working. And I'm still working.

"I guess that, eventually, you've got to look in the mirror and say, 'I'm the one that's causing me to not do these things. The only person that can stop Travis is Travis.'

Now, don't ever accuse me of just parroting crap when you haven't done any research on the subject. Don't let your blind love for one player make you think that other people on this board are below you.

EDIT: And if you think I'm going to apologize for a player who played like complete garbage his first year, and then began to get injury plagued his second year, and had to have his new HC come in and chew him out just to get him motivated, you're out of your mind.

dalemurphy
06-08-2008, 11:47 PM
I cliked on the link and got houston chronicle.com but then a message that the site could not be opened. Maybe you have to be registered to read the site. idonno:

Could you provide a quote from the article where Kubiak states that TJ has been lazy, unmotivated, and close to being cut.

Or was that just the words/opinion of the writer?

All you TJ haters :thumbdown are going to have to do some "polagizin" to TJ this year. :embarrass

:D

:coffee:


I'm certainly not a TJ hater. I thought that last season he was our 2nd best defensive lineman. However, he doesn't seem to have the full faith of the coaches, like Okoye does. Second, despite his very solid play last year, he often was unable to control the line of scrimmage. He's just not a stout run-stuffer, though he made a lot of players in the run game- just not by pushing the OL... Therefore, I feel confident that if Okam makes the squad, he'll see significant playing time on short yardage situations, likely at the expense of TJ.

by the way, it's been well documented on these boards that I'm not a UT homer. I just realize the need for a real run stuffer who can occupy linemen.

ObsiWan
06-09-2008, 06:35 AM
If you guys are looking for Okam to be a Sam Adams/Tony Siragusa (sp?) type, incredible bulk, run stopper, I think you're mistaken. Can he be an asset to our D-line? No doubt in my mind. A big dude like that with the quickness he's capable of... I'm thinking he'll be tough to keep blocked. But I don't see him tying up 3 guys like Adams used to.

Polo
06-09-2008, 08:26 AM
I'm glad TJ has a fan and all but you sound kind of like a goober when you state everything as though you have seen the future.

Your comprehension needs work.

Normally people who see the future don't use words like "opinion" or "if", and phrases like "I think".


Fact is, if TJ was such a great player Frank Okam probably wouldn't have been drafted at all.

EDIT: Or Amobi Okoye for that matter.


LOL....

Because we had such a young, deep, talented D-line rotation ?

Because every late rd. draft pick is supposed to come in and replace a starter ?

If Okam takes T.J.'s place because he's the better man...excellent...we got better....

I'm just saying "I don't think" it will happen...

cuppacoffee
06-09-2008, 09:58 AM
I'm glad TJ has a fan and all but you sound kind of like a goober when you state everything as though you have seen the future.

Fact is, if TJ was such a great player Frank Okam probably wouldn't have been drafted at all.
EDIT: Or Amobi Okoye for that matter.


Wow! Great insight.

If Sage and Matt were such great players then I suppose Brink wouldn't have been drafted.

cuppacoffee
06-09-2008, 10:31 AM
Okay, I'll believe you. Here you go:



Now, don't ever accuse me of just parroting crap when you haven't done any research on the subject. Don't let your blind love for one player make you think that other people on this board are below you.
EDIT: And if you think I'm going to apologize for a player who played like complete garbage his first year, and then began to get injury plagued his second year, and had to have his new HC come in and chew him out just to get him motivated, you're out of your mind.


Been told that before...:D

What did I say to make you think that I believed other people on this board are below me. We are just discussing football/players here.

I could say the same about you for your apparent dislike of TJ. But I haven't.

You obviously have taken umbrage to the fact that I disagree with you about TJ.

Lighten up or ignore me...or not...don't let it upset you, not saying that you are upset though.

I'm just passing time until the season starts......You?

p.s. Just for the record..I enjoy your posts...at least most of them...:)

:coffee:

Lucky
06-09-2008, 10:58 AM
I hope TJ and Okam show up to training camp with the same fire their supporters have shown in this thread. :)

ObsiWan
06-09-2008, 12:38 PM
We're just bored and waiting for football to start.
:bored:

TEXANRED
06-09-2008, 12:49 PM
Wow. Seems like I have read these same posts before.....We could insert David Carr's name in for TJ's name on half of these posts.

While TJ has been here and playing as a Houston Texan,

2004 rookie season, not a starter, NT. Texans finish 13th in rushing Defense
2005 I believe he started most of the season with Paynes tearing his ACL. we finished 32nd in rush Defense.
2006 we finished 20th in rush defense
2007 we finished 19th

Clearly the Texans have never been good in the run. Has it all been TJ's fault? No. But if he was the future than he should have been able to stand out in a sea of turds for all those years. Instead he blended in.

Again, he's not a run stopper and he's not a pass rusher. He's depth.

And I don't personally see OKam as a Sam Adams or a Goose type player. I see him as a Haynesworth, Stroud, or Henderson type player.

76Texan
06-10-2008, 05:01 PM
Just reviewed another UT game, this one against Nebraska.

More of the same from Okam.
- In the lineup introduction, his teammate specifically said that "you need to put two guys on him".
- Shows up in the 4th quarter.
- Can shed the double teams to make plays at times.
- Quick and athletic.
- Can lose balance when get hit from the side.

I have no doubt when Kubiak said that Okam has a chance to contribute VERY EARLY.

badboy
06-11-2008, 01:44 PM
:spit:And this is not the religious section. Bring on the popcorn! I have to go with POLO on this. I think TJ was the best DT last season after a "come to Jesus meeting" with Kubes. No reason for Okam to best TJ but it is possible. I also think Mario and Demeco will have a few words of encouragement for TJ. Let's hold out for the positive. The defense can take huge strides this year if our DBs do ok. Even Dream Weaver may do better if healthy.

b0ng
06-11-2008, 04:27 PM
Because we had such a young, deep, talented D-line rotation ?

Because every late rd. draft pick is supposed to come in and replace a starter ?

If Okam takes T.J.'s place because he's the better man...excellent...we got better....

I'm just saying "I don't think" it will happen...

No, you're saying "It won't happen" there's no thinking when you start posting.

Next up, I'd be a TJ fan too if he showed even one iota of being able to
Control the line of scrimmage
Make plays in the backfield that didn't result in a penalty
Play better his rookie and sophomore years
Not turn into a "fragile" player
Stop a run
Pressure a QB

You guys can get back to me when he does some or all of those things. Until then, I'll look to the future for what I want the Texans NT to be, thank you, and goodnight.

SOLIS
06-11-2008, 04:54 PM
I think Okam has TJ in spades. The only thing that TJ has going for him is his experience playing under Franklin and Bush last year.

Aside from having the better frame from which to build, Okam has a much better head on his shoulders. I'd put a hell of a lot more faith in Okam "getting it" than I ever would TJ.

As far as Okam having a mediocre college career, that's a laugher. Statistically, Okam had one of the best college careers of the 2008 draft class(at the DT position). You got to remember that Okam, at one point last year, was rated as a first day draft pick. His stock took a hit on rumors of him wanting to pursue law school. Then it plummeted when he showed up near 350 at the combine and further cemented the notion that he wasn't serious about football.

In the past few months, he has slimmed down to the 330 range and made strides in mini-camp and OTAs. Suffice to say, I think the kid has what it takes to supplant TJ in the starting lineup.

Polo
06-11-2008, 05:19 PM
You guys can get back to me when he does some or all of those things.

Get back at me when Okam supplants him...

NBT
06-11-2008, 05:27 PM
What's the big problem there's room enough for both of them. Keeps 'em fresher.

b0ng
06-11-2008, 05:30 PM
Get back at me when Okam supplants him...

Oh trust me, you know I will.

Second Honeymoon
06-11-2008, 05:37 PM
I think Okam has TJ in spades. The only thing that TJ has going for him is his experience playing under Franklin and Bush last year.

Aside from having the better frame from which to build, Okam is a much better head on his shoulders. I'd put a hell of a lot more faith in Okam "getting it" than I ever would TJ.

As far as Okam having a mediocre college career, that's a laugher. Statistically, Okam had one of the best college careers of the 2008 draft class(at the DT position). You got to remember that Okam, at one point last year, was rated as a first day draft pick. His stock took a hit on rumors of him wanting to pursue law school. Then it plummeted when he showed up near 350 at the combine and further cemented the notion that he wasn't serious about football.

In the past few months, he has slimmed down to the 330 range and made strides in mini-camp and OTAs. Suffice to say, I think the kid has what it takes to supplant TJ in the starting lineup.

Anyone who would claim that Okam had a mediocre college career just didn't watch the University of Texas Longhorns play football. He was a Top 15 pick in many mock drafts as late as December. His senior season numbers suffered due to the Longhorn defense being relatively porous against top competition and his workouts werent that great and the 'law school' possibility scared off some teams. He needs to improve his balance and learn to get his root down a little better. I think he needs to hit the weight room and work on them calves. His calves seem to be a little out of proportion with the rest of his body.

Bottom line was the guy was doubleteamed often but the UT linebacking corps was too anemic to fill the gaps. Thus UT's defense was subpar by most standards and his stock dropped from that as well.

I was ecstatic that they got him in the 4th and would have been happy if they would have even picked him in the 3rd Round. If he pans out we could really have the makings of a dominant DL and could emulate the NY Giants success in 07 with a little seasoning and playoff experience.

The Pencil Neck
06-11-2008, 05:48 PM
I was ecstatic that they got him in the 4th and would have been happy if they would have even picked him in the 3rd Round. If he pans out we could really have the makings of a dominant DL and could emulate the NY Giants success in 07 with a little seasoning and playoff experience.

Dude. They got him in the 5th. Adibi was in the 4th.

Second Honeymoon
06-11-2008, 05:58 PM
Dude. They got him in the 5th. Adibi was in the 4th.

my bad. even better then. i didn't see a lot of VTech but I heard Adibi was one of the fastest LBs available.

b0ng
06-11-2008, 05:59 PM
Dude. They got him in the 5th. Adibi was in the 4th.

Because they got him in the 5th he is now considered no better than backup material and has no shot of making any sort of difference whatsoever. 5th rounders never pan out NEVER.

NEVER

SOLIS
06-11-2008, 07:25 PM
my bad. even better then. i didn't see a lot of VTech but I heard Adibi was one of the fastest LBs available.

Adibi was a true fan favorite at Va Tech. He didn't run as fast as some thought he should have at the combine, but heading into the draft, Adibi a second rounder on a handful of reputable mocks.

Bud Foster, Va Tech Defensive Coordinator (and not to mention, one of the best coaches in college football) said that Adibi might be the "fastest and most athletic linebacker that he has ever had the opportunity to coach". That's saying something considering the amount of talent the "Lunch Pail Defense" has had over the years.

b0ng
06-11-2008, 07:31 PM
Adibi was a true fan favorite at Va Tech. He didn't run as fast as some thought he should have at the combine, but heading into the draft, Adibi a second rounder on a handful of reputable mocks.


Just to supplant your points, on forums that include fans of all football teams, we held mock drafts with 32 posters that made picks, and Adibi consistently went in rounds 2 and 3 (I actually picked him in one mock with our 3rd rounder).

SOLIS
06-11-2008, 07:47 PM
Just to supplant your points, on forums that include fans of all football teams, we held mock drafts with 32 posters that made picks, and Adibi consistently went in rounds 2 and 3 (I actually picked him in one mock with our 3rd rounder).

Right on. Where a lot of people saw Duane Brown as a stretch in the first, I think we can all agree that we picked up some potential gems in the mid-rounds with Slaton, Adibi, and Okam.

ObsiWan
06-12-2008, 03:32 AM
Because they got him in the 5th he is now considered no better than backup material and has no shot of making any sort of difference whatsoever. 5th rounders never pan out NEVER.

NEVER

"Never" is a pretty extreme statement. Would you care to reconsider? Or were you being sarcastic?

Look up which round Michael Turner, Jake Scott, Gibril Wilson, and Robert Mathis were drafted in. I think they "panned out".

Again, if you were being sarcastic, sorry for messing up the humor.

hadaad
06-12-2008, 09:42 AM
Looked like sarcasm to me. Especially since he was taking up for Okam.

Hooston Texan
06-12-2008, 10:12 AM
Adibi was a true fan favorite at Va Tech. He didn't run as fast as some thought he should have at the combine, but heading into the draft, Adibi a second rounder on a handful of reputable mocks.

Bud Foster, Va Tech Defensive Coordinator (and not to mention, one of the best coaches in college football) said that Adibi might be the "fastest and most athletic linebacker that he has ever had the opportunity to coach". That's saying something considering the amount of talent the "Lunch Pail Defense" has had over the years.

I just can't let this one go without comment. The next great (or even good) NFL linebacker that VT produces will be the program's first. They've had only marginally more success with defensive linemen. No doubt that Foster is a great coordinator, but his track record of producing NFL talent (other than DBs) is not good. I guess that makes his success in Bleaksburg all the more impressive.

Adibi is just like most VT linebackers but more so. He runs like the wind--albeit not quite up to the standards of VT's notoriously-inflated 40 times predict--and is hell-on-wheels in an attacking scheme. He dominated throughout his career as he faced very few QB's who could hurt Foster's pressure-at-all-costs schemes (ACC QB play has been horrendous since Schaub and Philip Rivers left in 2003). The question is whether Adibi can survive in a more honest scheme against NFL offenses.

That said, I was pleased as punch when we got him in the fourth round and look forward to seeing what he can do now that he no longer wears that nauseating maroon-and-orange.

SOLIS
06-12-2008, 01:00 PM
I just can't let this one go without comment. The next great (or even good) NFL linebacker that VT produces will be the program's first. They've had only marginally more success with defensive linemen. No doubt that Foster is a great coordinator, but his track record of producing NFL talent (other than DBs) is not good. I guess that makes his success in Bleaksburg all the more impressive.

Adibi is just like most VT linebackers but more so. He runs like the wind--albeit not quite up to the standards of VT's notoriously-inflated 40 times predict--and is hell-on-wheels in an attacking scheme. He dominated throughout his career as he faced very few QB's who could hurt Foster's pressure-at-all-costs schemes (ACC QB play has been horrendous since Schaub and Philip Rivers left in 2003). The question is whether Adibi can survive in a more honest scheme against NFL offenses.

That said, I was pleased as punch when we got him in the fourth round and look forward to seeing what he can do now that he no longer wears that nauseating maroon-and-orange.

Well said. You're absolutely right about Va Tech not being a Penn State type program. While there have been a few productive Hokie LBs (Cornell Brown, Victor Jones, Ben Taylor), none could be considered great.

The overriding caveat to saying that Va Tech LBs aren't made for the NFL is the fact that the Hokie defense, working out of a base 4-3, has been a national powerhouse with Adibi on the field. Don't get me wrong, I don't expect Adibi to be the next LT, but I do think he has the skill set and attitude to make an impact by his second year.

He could very well prove to be the best fourth round pick in the draft - as well as as the best LB to ever come out of Blacksburg. :winky:

beerlover
06-12-2008, 01:14 PM
Well said. You're absolutely right about Va Tech not being a Penn State type program. While there have been a few productive Hokie LBs (Cornell Brown, Victor Jones, Ben Taylor), none could be considered great.

The overriding caveat to saying that Va Tech LBs aren't made for the NFL is the fact that the Hokie defense, working out of a base 4-3, has been a national powerhouse with Adibi on the field. Don't get me wrong, I don't expect Adibi to be the next LT, but I do think he has the skill set and attitude to make an impact by his second year.

He could very well prove to be the best fourth round pick in the draft - as well as as the best LB to ever come out of Blacksburg. :winky:

VT is not one of those programs screaming fundementals, its based on speed/athleticism, read/reaction. he is a very raw product that the coaches here will have to work really hard to develop vica versa Adibi will have to commit all his God given talent to be someone counted on with the game on the line.

I think Okam stands a better chance to be included in the starting line-up. he is well coached just needs focused, has all the measureables & fills a harder to find need position (DT).

Also nobody is giving Marion Barbers young bro much love. even though the Texans are loaded with Safetys look for Dominique to make an impact, given our injury history maybe even some spot starts. not bad for a 6th rd. pick :wesmantexanfan:

76Texan
06-12-2008, 01:33 PM
After reviewving more than half a dozen VTech's game, I was quite impressed with Adibi's overall skills, athleticism, and awareness of the game flow.

One knock; however, is his strenght. Sometimes, he can be neutralized a bit too easy by a Olineman or TE. His bench press reps of 18 confirmed that. Adibi also needs to learn more as how to avoid those big bodies, given that they are even faster and stronger at the next level.

He will be at least a solid backup.

Hooston Texan
06-12-2008, 01:57 PM
I forgot about Ben Taylor, who did get some starts in 2003 and 2005 in Cleveland. He gets the distinction of being the most successful ex-VT linebacker in the NFL since Beamer/Foster arrived, though 218 tackles is all he ever recorded in the pro's.

Victor Jones was a senior when Beamer/Foster were hired, so I'm not sure I could credit them for his development.

Cornell Brown had a longer career than Taylor, though I don't think he ever started for the Ravens. Nevertheless, Brown never played LB for VT; he was an undersized defensive end (and a darned good one) who had to switch to LB to have a chance in the NFL.

VT had a dominant defense for all four of Adibi's years there, and he (along with Vince Hall) was the star of the show, but theirs was a hyper-aggressive scheme that preyed on teams with lousy QB play. And by "teams with lousy QB play", I'm referring pretty much to the entire ACC and most of the cream-puffs that made up their non-conference schedule. On the occasions that a multi-faceted offense forced them to play more honestly, they (and Adibi) looked ordinary. For proof of that, see what LSU and Kansas did to them last season.

Still, Adibi and Hall were the two best VT linebackers I've ever seen in my 30+ years as a fan of their chief rival. Adibi was a great playmaker, and I hope that ability translates to the NFL.

76Texan
06-12-2008, 02:28 PM
Anyone who would claim that Okam had a mediocre college career just didn't watch the University of Texas Longhorns play football. He was a Top 15 pick in many mock drafts as late as December. His senior season numbers suffered due to the Longhorn defense being relatively porous against top competition and his workouts werent that great and the 'law school' possibility scared off some teams. He needs to improve his balance and learn to get his root down a little better. I think he needs to hit the weight room and work on them calves. His calves seem to be a little out of proportion with the rest of his body.

Bottom line was the guy was doubleteamed often but the UT linebacking corps was too anemic to fill the gaps. Thus UT's defense was subpar by most standards and his stock dropped from that as well.

I was ecstatic that they got him in the 4th and would have been happy if they would have even picked him in the 3rd Round. If he pans out we could really have the makings of a dominant DL and could emulate the NY Giants success in 07 with a little seasoning and playoff experience.If critics only watch one game like the Holiday Bowl, they can say that he had a very so-so game. They can say that he had a below-verage game, I won't counter that either.

They can even say that he takes some plays off.
While some Longhorns were still playing with enthusiasm in the 4th quarter, others (including Okam) were somewhat floating with the motion. The Horns were up by a ton by that time. The poor Sun Devil's QB had been on his hind all day long.

It was time for Okam to move on to greener pasture.

On the other hand, I believe TJ's play had improved.
But if he wants to remain in the top 12 salaries on the roster, he can't afford to slip.

76Texan
06-12-2008, 02:29 PM
I forgot about Ben Taylor, who did get some starts in 2003 and 2005 in Cleveland. He gets the distinction of being the most successful ex-VT linebacker in the NFL since Beamer/Foster arrived, though 218 tackles is all he ever recorded in the pro's.

Victor Jones was a senior when Beamer/Foster were hired, so I'm not sure I could credit them for his development.

Cornell Brown had a longer career than Taylor, though I don't think he ever started for the Ravens. Nevertheless, Brown never played LB for VT; he was an undersized defensive end (and a darned good one) who had to switch to LB to have a chance in the NFL.

VT had a dominant defense for all four of Adibi's years there, and he (along with Vince Hall) was the star of the show, but theirs was a hyper-aggressive scheme that preyed on teams with lousy QB play. And by "teams with lousy QB play", I'm referring pretty much to the entire ACC and most of the cream-puffs that made up their non-conference schedule. On the occasions that a multi-faceted offense forced them to play more honestly, they (and Adibi) looked ordinary. For proof of that, see what LSU and Kansas did to them last season.

Still, Adibi and Hall were the two best VT linebackers I've ever seen in my 30+ years as a fan of their chief rival. Adibi was a great playmaker, and I hope that ability translates to the NFL.Thanks for the insights!

b0ng
06-12-2008, 06:14 PM
"Never" is a pretty extreme statement. Would you care to reconsider? Or were you being sarcastic?

Look up which round Michael Turner, Jake Scott, Gibril Wilson, and Robert Mathis were drafted in. I think they "panned out".

Again, if you were being sarcastic, sorry for messing up the humor.

It's all good, your sarcasm detector is on the fritz again :specnatz:

But yes, good play can come from any round in the draft, including the undrafted round. I feel that Okam had just as many credentials coming into the draft, until the combine. As a 5th rounder, he's either boom or bust, and with the praise that some of the coaches are giving him, I have hope. I don't think he'll totally take over TJ's spot, but I believe that with the Texans taking DT's in 2 out of the 3 drafts that Kubiak has had, TJ is probably on notice.

If TJ is hurt during training camp, that could spell real problems for him keeping ahold of his NT spot in the starting lineup, and could end up becoming a rotation guy.

Polo
06-12-2008, 06:44 PM
When he healed he'd just take his spot back ;)

Second Honeymoon
06-12-2008, 07:23 PM
Right on. Where a lot of people saw Duane Brown as a stretch in the first, I think we can all agree that we picked up some potential gems in the mid-rounds with Slaton, Adibi, and Okam.

without a doubt. as for late rounds picks producing, you dont even have to BE drafted to make an impact. just ask willie parker. he went from UDFA to worldchampion franchiseback in just a few yrs. one things for sure, u cant coach athleticism...and that is something that Parker and our draft has in spades. Other than the Duane Brown selection (which ironically came across as a Russell Maryland type selection..'maybe not best player available but the coach knew he could get something out of him) the draft came off like a Jimmy Johnson type draft. Speed and athleticism seemed to be the overriding factor throughout the whole draft...not like that is unique but it seemed like we got what most people would perceive as good value throughout the draft after the selection of Brown in the 1st Round (and im not knocking Brown just saying he was taken earlier than most had projected but even accepting that as fact you still have to look at his as what was most coveted by Gibbs and Kubes.)

badboy
06-16-2008, 12:40 PM
While I am pumped with Okam's selection, to give him TJ's spot is not clear thinking in my book. Yes, Okam should push Johnson and may even beat him out but that is simply projecting. Let's give TJ credit for last season and hopefully he will have a good year with Okam strengthening the team. With a healthy Weaver and Colvin, the entire Dline should be improved, even MW.

JWarren14
07-23-2008, 01:03 PM
I found this chat transcript of Okam on ESPN

Frank Okam aka "The Nightmare"

Okam Chat (http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=19727)

Texecutioner
07-23-2008, 02:27 PM
Yeah, I'm sure the guy who's "too smart to play NFL football" didn't know how to read the label on his creatine. The guy was fat and out of shape - it happens to all of us, pro athletes or not. LOL

This guy's gonna be the steal of the draft, I tell ya. Travis Johnson better get his injury issues worked out, or he's gonna be watching from the bench.

I don't know if he'll be a steal or not, but I did predict in another thread that I think he has the POTENTIAL to be the Texans best draft pick considering where we got him. He hasn't played a down yet, so I think many of you guys are way ahead of yourselves as far outright claiming this guy is already a steal.

Remember that for the last two years at Texas he was supposed to be their best player on the D-line and some thought he would be the best player on defense period. He never measured up, and under achieved big time.

I just feel like their has to be some sort of reason as to why Texas thought he was going to be so freaking good. They gave him the nick name "The Nightmare", and we never saw a nightmare player.

For some reason though, I have a good feeling about him right now though. He probably expected to be a high draft pick out of college and figured that he would get a big signing bonus and all, and that obviously didn't happen so maybe he finally got the motivation that he needed to dominate. It's great to hear that he lost a lot of weight and continues to. I do think that he'll make an impact this year, but how big of one, we'll just have to wait and see.

Again though, he does have very strong potential to be a big time steal. Let's hope for the best. :fans:

Carr Bombed
07-23-2008, 02:48 PM
Remember that for the last two years at Texas he was supposed to be their best player on the D-line and some thought he would be the best player on defense period. He never measured up, and under achieved big time.

I just feel like their has to be some sort of reason as to why Texas thought he was going to be so freaking good. They gave him the nick name "The Nightmare", and we never saw a nightmare player.very strong potential to be a big time steal. Let's hope for the best

Texas is notorious for getting blue chip Dlineman and never having them quite reach full potential until they reach the next level.....most of their Dlineman end up being steals in the draft.

I don't know what it is...I think it's the coaching at Texas and the fact that they baby their players too much. When these lineman get to the NFL somebody lights a fire under their rear and gets production out of them. Rodrique Wright is a good example.

Texecutioner
07-23-2008, 02:55 PM
Texas is notorious for getting blue chip Dlineman and never having them quite reach full potential until they reach the next level.....most of their Dlineman end up being steals in the draft.

I don't know what it is...I think it's the coaching at Texas and the fact that they baby their players too much. When these lineman get to the NFL somebody lights a fire under their rear and gets production out of them. Rodrique Wright is a good example.

You know Carr Bombed I was thinking about ole Rodrique Wright while making my last post. I loved that guy at Texas. Now he was everything that Okam was supposed to be.

Where is Wright right now though? As far as my knowledge, he hasn't done anything. It wasn't his fault though, because right before the draft the doctors found a real bad injury in his upper body that no one knew he had. It was weird, because he played all season with it, and didn't even know. Is he even on a team's roster right now? And if so, is he finally healthy to your knowledge?

Carr Bombed
07-23-2008, 03:28 PM
You know Carr Bombed I was thinking about ole Rodrique Wright while making my last post. I loved that guy at Texas. Now he was everything that Okam was supposed to be.

Where is Wright right now though? As far as my knowledge, he hasn't done anything. It wasn't his fault though, because right before the draft the doctors found a real bad injury in his upper body that no one knew he had. It was weird, because he played all season with it, and didn't even know. Is he even on a team's roster right now? And if so, is he finally healthy to your knowledge?

Actually Rodrique Wright...while not as disappointing as Okam, didn't quite live up to the billing either. he was a first round lock, (just like Okam after his freshman and sophmore seasons) then after a disapointing junior and senior season (like Okam) Wright fell all the way to the 7th round in the NFL draft.

He has since come into the league and beat out everybody in front of him and is now a major piece on the Dolphins Dline and is a every down starter.

Texecutioner
07-23-2008, 04:30 PM
Actually Rodrique Wright...while not as disappointing as Okam, didn't quite live up to the billing either. he was a first round, (just like Okam after his freshman and sophmore seasons) then after a disapointing junior and senior season (like Okam) Wright fell all the way to the 7th round in the NFL draft.

He has since come into the league and beat out everybody in front of him and is now a major piece on the Dolphins Dline and is a every down starter.

That is great to hear about Wright, and not surprising either. Like I said, they found a broken bone or something in his upper body that they never knew about and he never even felt it.

I disagree with you about him in his Senior season though. I thought he played really well, and made a lot BIG plays that year when Texas won the National Championship. It was Wright, Crowder, and Robison tearing teams apart that season on the D line. That sure was a fun defense to watch with Griffin brothers, Huff, Tarell Brown, and Ced Griffin in the secondary.

Carr Bombed
07-23-2008, 04:48 PM
I disagree with you about him in his Senior season though. I thought he played really well, and made a lot BIG plays that year when Texas won the National Championship. It was Wright, Crowder, and Robison tearing teams apart that season on the D line. That sure was a fun defense to watch with Griffin brothers, Huff, Tarell Brown, and Ced Griffin in the secondary.

Well if you liked Wright's senior season...then you should feel there's hope for Okam to become the next steal Dlineman out of Texas.

R. Wright's senior season season at Texas...

46 tcks, 14 TFL, and 4.5 sacks in 13 games played

F. Okam's senior season at Texas

49 tcks, 10TFL, and 5 sacks in 12 games played. (and that was while Okam was overweight while having his dedication to football being questioned.)

Again, I still don't think the coaches at Texas do a good enough job at coaching and pulling all the talent out of their players. Mack Brown does a great job at recruiting players....a fantastic job at that, but he's kinda overrated in other departments.

Texecutioner
07-23-2008, 04:52 PM
Well if you liked Wright's senior season...then you should feel there's hope for Okam to become the next steal Dlineman out of Texas.

R. Wright's senior season season at Texas...

46 tcks, 14 TFL, and 4.5 sacks in 13 games played

F. Okam's senior season at Texas

49 tcks, 10TFL, and 5 sacks in 12 games played. (and that was while Okam was overweight while having his dedication to football being questioned.)

Eh! I guess you pulled one over my head on that one. :tiphat:

I just thought that Wright seemed more active and made bigger plays. I remember him making a huge TD play as well, and he also had Robison and Crowder to make it easier for him.

I was glad that we drafted Okam, and like I said before I predict that he might end up being out best pick out of the entire draft.

76Texan
07-23-2008, 10:32 PM
VT had a dominant defense for all four of Adibi's years there, and he (along with Vince Hall) was the star of the show, but theirs was a hyper-aggressive scheme that preyed on teams with lousy QB play. And by "teams with lousy QB play", I'm referring pretty much to the entire ACC and most of the cream-puffs that made up their non-conference schedule. On the occasions that a multi-faceted offense forced them to play more honestly, they (and Adibi) looked ordinary. For proof of that, see what LSU and Kansas did to them last season.

Still, Adibi and Hall were the two best VT linebackers I've ever seen in my 30+ years as a fan of their chief rival. Adibi was a great playmaker, and I hope that ability translates to the NFL.
With all the positives I gave Adibi, I kept reminding all the knock about him not being strong enough to get off the TE/Lineman's blocks.

When you mentioned Kansas, I knew there was something I wanted to bring up, but I needed to see more before I take down a guy.

So I went back to review the KS game and also the VA game (I was waiting for that second one).

Now, I would say another thing I'd like to see Adibi work on is to stay agressive at least until the whistle blow. He would slow down when he thought a teammate would make the tackle "for sure". There's nothing for sure.

Just like in basketball, I want a guy who keeps with the action, you can't assume that an easy layup or a dunk is automatic.
Or in soccer, you can't assume that the goalkeeper will gather the ball in cleanly simply because the shot on goal was too soft.
Got to stay with it at least until the whistle blow, what I always say!

76Texan
07-23-2008, 10:36 PM
Well if you liked Wright's senior season...then you should feel there's hope for Okam to become the next steal Dlineman out of Texas.

R. Wright's senior season season at Texas...

46 tcks, 14 TFL, and 4.5 sacks in 13 games played

F. Okam's senior season at Texas

49 tcks, 10TFL, and 5 sacks in 12 games played. (and that was while Okam was overweight while having his dedication to football being questioned.)

Again, I still don't think the coaches at Texas do a good enough job at coaching and pulling all the talent out of their players. Mack Brown does a great job at recruiting players....a fantastic job at that, but he's kinda overrated in other departments.Ya need to make up your mind about who was more disappointing (to you) and why.

I simply do not have a clear idea of what you were trying to say.
Can you try me again, please, thank you!

Carr Bombed
07-24-2008, 02:26 AM
Ya need to make up your mind about who was more disappointing (to you) and why.

I simply do not have a clear idea of what you were trying to say.
Can you try me again, please, thank you!

You must've misread my post or point in this thread, because this wasn't a Wright vs Okam argument, my point was....both guys were highly touted recruits (the kind that Texas gets all the time) and both guys sank like rocks in the draft. I never set out to prove who was more disappointing, but to prove that while Texas can recruit top lineman, they sure as hell fail at getting them to reach their full potential and become finished products. Pretty much my point was that the "Texas" staff stinks at maximizing the talent that they bring in on the Dline, but NFL programs/coaches reek the benefits later.

Texas pretty much has become the school where you can draft low and expect high results when it comes to Dlineman.

P.S.

This was never a Okam vs Wright thread, sorry you got misguided.

Texecutioner
07-24-2008, 10:28 AM
Ya need to make up your mind about who was more disappointing (to you) and why.

I simply do not have a clear idea of what you were trying to say.
Can you try me again, please, thank you!

What are you talking about? Carr Bombed and I were discussing Wright and Okam. He never bashed either one, or said one was better than the other. I was the one that said I thought Wright had a better Senior season, and I still do. However, Carr Bombed posted their stats and it was interesting to see how close they were in stat production, which sort of made MY ARGUMENT look a little bit misinformed. You misinterpreted what he was saying.

76Texan
07-24-2008, 12:52 PM
Actually Rodrique Wright...while not as disappointing as Okam, didn't quite live up to the billing either. he was a first round lock, (just like Okam after his freshman and sophmore seasons) then after a disapointing junior and senior season (like Okam) Wright fell all the way to the 7th round in the NFL draft.

He has since come into the league and beat out everybody in front of him and is now a major piece on the Dolphins Dline and is a every down starter.Yah, I think you kinda confuse me, when at first you said the above, which is saying "Okam was more disappointing than Wright".

But then you went on and showed the stats which says that "Okam had somewhat a better senior season than Wright".

I saw your point: Somehow, some way, Longhorns linemen seemed kinda underperformed, and got put down on draft day.

I don't follow UT football closely, so I don't know much about Wright and how they employ him in his senior season.

But I reviewed 5 of the games Okam played (the Rose bowl and 4 games in his senior year.) I don't think Okam underperformed at all.

What I'm proposing are as followed:

Falling draft status:
- Wright played with shoulder problems the last two years.
[At least three other franchises had "red flagged" Wright as a medical risk and the Carolina Panthers removed him from their draft board entirely.]
The Dolphins' MRI revealed that he had a torn rotator cuff that required surgery, for which he missed the entire rookie season.
- We all know that Okam showed up overweight at the combine and ran the slowest time of all the DT drafted ahead of him. Teams may worry that he has a weight problem??

Their play:
- Wright's number dropped the last two years because of his injury.
Also, he might have seen more double teams.
- Okam's number wasn't impressive because Wright was gone so he saw more double teams. Also in his Jr year, he missed one game and did not play on D in another game. (His production per game play was fine.)

Therefore, I don't think I can agree that they didn't reach their potential during their college career. I don't think they underperformed.

If we look at how the votes went down (mainly the coaches and AP), their accolades pretty much went up every year.

badboy
07-24-2008, 02:40 PM
I think Okam is a puzzling situation as noted in all the posts. My focus and hope when starting this thread is he has stated he is going to play football and a legal profession is for future. He has dropped significant weight and caught the management's attention in OTAs. He is a tremendous physical physique. He may push TJ or start and bottom line can be a solid back up while he learns. I want to watch how Richard Smith's coaches work with Okam. It is possible as somone said that he thought he was going to be a high draft pick and/or considered becoming attorney. Regardless, today Friday July 24th, he gets to show us the money as in his true skill set. I think all Texans fans will be pleased this season.

Carr Bombed
07-24-2008, 02:42 PM
Therefore, I don't think I can agree that they didn't reach their potential during their college career. I don't think they underperformed.

If we look at how the votes went down (mainly the coaches and AP), their accolades pretty much went up every year.

If they reached their potential and performed up to their true ability they wouldn've gone in the 5th and 7th rounds. Almost every single player that gets drafted gets accolades from coaches and the AP, every player in the draft is talented and was one of the best players on their teams.

76Texan
07-25-2008, 12:37 PM
If they reached their potential and performed up to their true ability they wouldn've gone in the 5th and 7th rounds. Almost every single player that gets drafted gets accolades from coaches and the AP, every player in the draft is talented and was one of the best players on their teams.

How did a guy like Wright not performing well when he was named AP - All America First Team?

Perhaps your standard is way way up there, and you were expecting him to be All-World or sumthing like that!

Guys' stock slipped every year for numerous reasons, from medical to character, etc.

A guy like Okam, when he played at 320 lbs, my personal opinion was that I'd rather have him slim down a bit, I think he would be more efficient around 310 lbs. (He was very close to making some great plays.)

But no, he had to show up at the combine weighing 347 lbs.
How does that supposed to help his speed and his agility? :thinking:

Two guys who were picked Big 12 First Team didn't even get drafted.
McClinton was even slower than Okam at the combine (5.47 while weighing 293 lbs)
Williams signed with the Ravens as an UDFA.

Pre-Combine, Okam was rated as the 8th best DT in the draft (which meant mid to late fourth in this draft).

Post-Combine, his stock dropped to the 5th round in several draft boards like SI, Draft Scout, Draftcountdown
Scout.com still had him mid to late fourth
And Rival.com had him 4th or 5th

So he did drop, but it wasn't as dramatic a fall as one might think.

Carr Bombed
07-25-2008, 12:44 PM
How did a guy like Wright not performing well when he was named AP - All America First Team?

Stuff like that happens all the time. Just because you get accolades in college (which again, just about every player in the draft gets them, so scouts really don't give a crap about those) it doesn't mean you truly played up to your max ability. For whatever reasons pro scouts felt he underachieved and took plays off.

Again, if scouts felt he played hard and maxed out his potential he wouldn't have fell to the 7th round, honestly I really don't get what's so hard to figure out here.

So he did drop, but it wasn't as dramatic a fall as one might think.

At one time during Okam's college career he was projected to be a top 10 to 15 draft pick, he was regarded that highly, so to have his stock slip all the way to the 5th round during his junior and senior seasons, that's a pretty big fall. Showing up to the combine 25 pounds overweight didn't really help his case, it made everybody think he's just a lazy player.

76Texan
07-25-2008, 12:47 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2437750

Sorry, I thought I've already posted that link.

Carr Bombed
07-25-2008, 01:08 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2437750

Sorry, I thought I've already posted that link.

Yes that would be a major reason why he fell too, I forgot all about his shoulder surgery.

76Texan
07-25-2008, 01:31 PM
Yes that would be a major reason why he fell too, I forgot all about his shoulder surgery.
I didn't know it either.
Like I told you, I am not a Longhorn fan.
I do watch some Big 12 football, but not a whole lot! (But quite a few for a casual fan. Unless there's a good game going on at the time.)
I only get some game tapes to see how Okam was doing!

I'd like to close my part of the conversation.
I think we both see each other view point.

I need to go review some more VTech games for a discussion with YoungTexanFan! :d: :pirate:

Hook'er
08-05-2008, 09:25 AM
Is Okam still lookin' like a beast?:texflag:

Hook'er
08-22-2008, 04:19 PM
How's Okam been looking so far?

76Texan
08-22-2008, 04:27 PM
How's Okam been looking so far?

He made a few good plays.
Steady progress!
Look to be more in shape.

Wolf
08-22-2008, 05:28 PM
He made a few good plays.
Steady progress!
Look to be more in shape.

I watched the saints game and i flat out didn't even see him

I don't mean that in a bad way, I just didn't notice him

JWarren14
08-22-2008, 05:32 PM
I watched him during the Broncos game I was sitting in the end zone the broncos were trying to score in. He came in a few plays and looked disruptive. I think he will turn out to be another solid late round pick up by kube/smith

maddogmrb
08-22-2008, 05:40 PM
I don't think he looked 'bad' in the Saints game. Just didn't stand out ......... as we've seen with other rookie DL's.

:texflag:

76Texan
08-22-2008, 06:33 PM
In the Broncos game he got 2 tackles (I have to go back and check but I think one of them is for loss of yardage.)

In the Saints game, he did not have anything showing up in the stat column, but he did well.

He played in at least two series in the second half, both resulting in a punt! :fans:

1. About 7:35 in the third
3-8 QB stepped up in the pocket, thinking about scrambling for the first down.
Saw Okam disengaged from blocker. Stopped and tried to lob a pass to the TE Billy Miller. He knew Okam was in the passing lane, so he lobbed the pass behind the TE (Okam jumped up to disrupt the timing.) Punt

2. About 11:53 in the 4th
Got double team on 1-10 but was able to push forward about 2 yds.
Saints run away on him next play (another 1-10)
2-6 Inc. pass
3-6 Got double team again.
And this is funny. He affected the play even while on his butt.
Brunnel was scrambling in the pocket, wanted to go outside, but saw Okam moving to that side so he changed direction and go up the middle.
#93 Bulman who went around the right edge, came back up and made the tackle. Punt.

I'm not sure whether he played the last series or not. But the two guys at DT did their job well. Forcing the Saints to turn the ball over on 4 downs.

b0ng
08-22-2008, 06:42 PM
He hasn't looked like anything but a backup right now. I imagine that he is going to make the squad (Not practice squad) and probably get to play in a few games this year.


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