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badboy
05-30-2008, 08:23 AM
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4337&e=smeloy@hospitalsolutionsinc.comNice article on Mike Brisiel and role as a starter. This was in the Texans letter.

adam
05-30-2008, 01:02 PM
Good read, Brisiel is quickly becoming one of my favorite players. I'd really like to see him get the start over Weary in the season opener. I like Weary; but even when healthy his play was par. As the article says, in Brisiel's time as starter he didn't allow a single sack and only committed one penalty. He's definitely starter quality, and a young guy at that.

Either way, our offensive line is going to surprise a lot of people next season.

Honoring Earl 34
05-30-2008, 01:20 PM
I was looking at the photos at HT.com and they had an OL of Brown , Studdard , Myers , Briesel , and Winston . The picture was labled 1st team offense .

McClain says Gibbs really likes Studdard and Butler . I'm thinking this is part of the numbers game they refer to .


http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2008/05/lets_talk_texans_mcnair_single.html

As far as young offensive linemen, keep a close eye on tackle Rashad Butler and guard Kasey Studdard. They're really taking to Gibbs' style of coaching.

HOU-TEX
05-30-2008, 01:29 PM
I was looking at the photos at HT.com and they had a OL of Brown , Studdard , Myers , Briesel , and Winston . The picture was labled 1st team offense .

McClain says Gibbs really likes Studdard and Butler . I'm thinking this is part of the numbers game they refer to .

Pitts had shoulder soreness which kept him out of practice. I reckon Pitts would've been there if the coaches allowed it. IMO, it's Pitts' job to lose.

Polo
05-30-2008, 01:29 PM
If I'm not mistaken I think I read a quote where Kubiak said Studdard was going with the first team O...

badboy
05-30-2008, 02:08 PM
I am a big Pitts fan. Just like the story of walking onto college team after being "recruited" by Salaam. Chester has just done the job. Not a probowler, just does his best with minimal down time. I like his "lunch pail" work ethic. Having said that, there is something about Studdard and Butler that makes me think they will eventually be a step up.

Goldensilence
05-30-2008, 02:18 PM
I am a big Pitts fan. Just like the story of walking onto college team after being "recruited" by Salaam. Chester has just done the job. Not a probowler, just does his best with minimal down time. I like his "lunch pail" work ethic. Having said that, there is something about Studdard and Butler that makes me think they will eventually be a step up.

I think Gibbs took to Studdard very well because of the mean streak and intensity he plays with. Way thinks are looking we're going to be solid on the line next year and Butler stepping up makes Black expendable.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
05-30-2008, 02:19 PM
Good read, Brisiel is quickly becoming one of my favorite players. I'd really like to see him get the start over Weary in the season opener. I like Weary; but even when healthy his play was par. As the article says, in Brisiel's time as starter he didn't allow a single sack and only committed one penalty. He's definitely starter quality, and a young guy at that.

Either way, our offensive line is going to surprise a lot of people next season.



Weary has been our best offensive lineman the past 2 years.

Honoring Earl 34
05-30-2008, 02:25 PM
I think Gibbs took to Studdard very well because of the mean streak and intensity he plays with. Way thinks are looking we're going to be solid on the line next year and Butler stepping up makes Black expendable.

I think something is happening that has'nt before . You perform or you're cut .

TexanSam
05-30-2008, 02:46 PM
This doesn't have anything to do with Brisiel's play, but was he the guy that had a seizure on the sideline last year (or maybe it was in 06)?

HOU-TEX
05-30-2008, 03:20 PM
This doesn't have anything to do with Brisiel's play, but was he the guy that had a seizure on the sideline last year (or maybe it was in 06)?

Yes, I believe it was in 06. He was inactive.

ocd
05-30-2008, 03:45 PM
I think Gibbs took to Studdard very well because of the mean streak and intensity he plays with.


Now we're talking MY kind of football!

I'm thinking Gibbs goes out in style and retires with the best O line he has ever had...just to make a statement. And what statement is that?

Smash mouth football is what wins championships.

badboy
05-30-2008, 04:15 PM
Weary has been our best offensive lineman the past 2 years.Most would agree but I go with Pitts who is always at LG. He just rarely goes out. Weary missed several games. These guys are developing into the old Oiler defense in the House of Pain atttitude. By that I mean, they bring effort always. Oiler D was not always first round pro bowl type players but they came to play. I would rather watch a solid game that we lose rather than a sloppy win. I know this also flies against the Ws at all cost mentality but that is me. I want all players regardless of side of ball to "bring it".

76Texan
05-30-2008, 04:44 PM
It's debatable to who was our best O-lineman last year.
The only guy I haven't heard mentioning is Salaam, even though a few fans pointed out that he did have to face quite a few good RDEs.

McKinney had a bad season opener against KC (so many mistakes, but fortunately, they didn't hurt us) it's hard to give him any more than a C-

White made a couple of critical mistakes in just over half a game against the Chargers, one found him on the ground, and one almost result in Dayne getting caught in our own endzone. The one run that made us look good was to the outside where the LT overran Salaam so we had a gaping hole.

It's difficult to judge Briesel because of the four opponents we played at the end of the season (3 home games.)
The Bucs didn't have their full load, and they were content to go home and get a clincher there. And we managed only 257 total yards.
The Broncos had their share of injury toward the end of the season. 3 TDs on the ground was amazing, especially considering the candidates: Dayne, Leach and Rosenfels. What can you say when Dayne averaged 6yd per carry?
Same with the Jags, they played a slew of reserves and we managed a whopping 290yds.
And 299 yds against the Colts (124 yd in the 4th qtr down by 31 pts) while losing over 11 minutes in the posession game is nothing to write home about.
You know it's garbage time!

Texans Horror
05-30-2008, 04:50 PM
I thought it was Bedell who went down in 06. And I seem to remember Studdard being a fast lineman, which could account for his time with the first-team.

76Texan
05-30-2008, 04:58 PM
I thought it was Bedell who went down in 06. And I seem to remember Studdard being a fast lineman, which could account for his time with the first-team.
I don't think Studdard is fast. He has a good motor, and he will fight hard, but he's not that athetic. But he's not slow by any mean.
Pitts has missed times while Weary has'nt fully recovered.
And I'm sure Kubiak likes to give Studdard as many reps as he can.

adam
05-30-2008, 05:27 PM
Weary has been our best offensive lineman the past 2 years.

It didn't show last season. I would say his performance was out done by both Brisiel and Winston. I would be close to saying that McKinney had played better when he was healthy, but the sample for McKinney was a little to small to say anything like that.

Vinny
05-31-2008, 10:10 AM
It didn't show last season. I would say his performance was out done by both Brisiel and Winston. I would be close to saying that McKinney had played better when he was healthy, but the sample for McKinney was a little to small to say anything like that.
Weary and Winston were the best linemen last year. Brisiel did a fine job when he came in for Weary. I think that Weary wins the job if he is fully healthy and Brisiel will make a fine back up.

Honoring Earl 34
05-31-2008, 10:19 AM
Weary and Winston were the best linemen last year. Brisiel did a fine job when he came in for Weary. I think that Weary wins the job if he is fully healthy and Brisiel will make a fine back up.

Winston is on his way and Brown should be right behind him ( of course this is a guess ) .

I think after training camp the OL will not be what we think . I've read some of what Gibbs has said in the past and it does'nt apply to our starters from last year .

BattleRedToro
05-31-2008, 10:21 AM
I heard McClain on the radio yesterday comment that Gibbs isn't going to be sentimental in his decision on who is a starter and who makes the team on the OL. In otherwords, he is going to start the 5 linemen that he believes give the Texans the best chance to win.

Vinny
05-31-2008, 10:23 AM
I heard McClain on the radio yesterday comment that Gibbs isn't going to be sentimental in his decision on who is a starter and who makes the team on the OL.I don't think any Texans fan thinks Gibbs would do it any other way.

Honoring Earl 34
05-31-2008, 10:43 AM
I don't think any Texans fan thinks Gibbs would do it any other way.

I think the era of false starts , missed assignments , and letting your QB take cheapshots are over .

I've read where the Denver OL of the Terrell Davis era would show up at 7:00 am for a 9:00 am meeting to review before the meeting .

I think Gibbs knows what type of personality it takes to do what he ask and that is more important than the physical ( Studdard ) . This is where Spencer fits ... he's mean and determined . It's just a matter of his leg holding up .

Honoring Earl 34
05-31-2008, 10:59 AM
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_2_225/ai_69404525

Consider what Gibbs, the man they call "The Doctor," has done. Almost without exception, linemen were better as Broncos under Gibbs than they were before or after. Jones spent nine years with the Browns and Ravens, but his only Pro Bowl appearance came under Gibbs. The Ravens saw Harry Swayne's production with the Broncos and signed him to a rich free-agent deal. The Seahawks did the same with Brian Habib. Neither was as productive for his new team as was his replacement for the Broncos. Gibbs helped seventh-round draft choice Tom Nalen become arguably the premier center in the NFL.

Gibbs took Matt Lepsis, who was undrafted, and made him into a very effective right tackle. He made a premier guard out of the undersized Neil, whom one offensive line coach said would be hard-pressed to start in any other system. He found a way to get solid production out of Schlereth, a player who had undergone numerous surgeries (the count is 29).

"What he's done is make them better as a group than as individuals," Chargers defensive coordinator Joe Pascale says.

Gibbs, 59, crafted great offensive lines mostly with players other teams had no use for. Unlike just about every other coach, Gibbs didn't lobby to have his team select players for him in the high rounds. He preferred the leftovers, players who have something to prove. Gibbs tore these players down further, and then built them up.

Working counter to the craze that favors bodies big enough to float in a holiday parade, Gibbs preferred lightweights, maintaining they heal more quickly. The 2000 Broncos line had a median weight of 287 pounds, lightest in the NFL. It was the league's only line without a 300-pounder.

Lighter linemen also can execute Gibbs' philosophy better than players whose steps measure on the Richter scale. Ted Sundquist, the Broncos' talented director of college scouting, says Gibbs' system is emphasized in the scouting process. Broncos scouts look for quickness, balance, intelligence, the ability to get to the second level, the athleticism to adjust on the move and the speed to run in the open field.

Take Neil, for instance. Coming out of Texas, Neil was considered not big enough or athletic enough for most teams. "He's just what we were looking for," Sundquist says. Neil can overcome his deficiencies in this system because he plays hard and he took Gibbs' coaching well. "I think he's one of the best guards in the league because of his technique," Adams says. "Even if he finds himself in a bad position, he can overcome it with great technique. Plus, he has a great zest for playing."

Technique was the common thread through the Broncos' blocking success. Gibbs had a hawk's eye for detail. And he was as demanding as Bela Karolyi, except Gibbs' gymnasts were overgrown. On each practice snap, every hand had to be in the right position; perfect foot placement was required.

"They use great technique," says Bears defensive end Phillip Daniels, another former Seahawk. "They get their hands inside and move you off the ball. They get the line running one way, then somebody gets out of a gap and the back cuts back."

Daniels alludes to one of the Broncos' staples, a run some teams call the press play. The linemen stretch the defense horizontally to the weak side to make it look like an outside run, and then the fullback hits up inside the tackle and the tailback cuts back hard.

The backside of the play is where it gets interesting. The Broncos often try to get backside defenders on the ground (see accompanying story). Nalen and one of the guards often will double team a defensive tackle before one of them uses a "scoop" technique, leaving the defensive tackle and reaching out to block a linebacker or safety on the second level of the defense.

If you go to the link above , you can click on page two .

edo783
05-31-2008, 01:09 PM
Almost without exception, linemen were better as Broncos under Gibbs than they were before or after.

That right there bothers me. I think most of us believe that Gibbs will be around about 2 years. What are we doing to make sure that when the master leaves, that there is a grasshopper to carry on the work? Does anyone know if there is a designated under study so to speak that is learning how to contsruct and maintain this thing? If not, we may have some real issues after he leaves.

Vinny
05-31-2008, 01:10 PM
Almost without exception, linemen were better as Broncos under Gibbs than they were before or after.

That right there bothers me. I think most of us believe that Gibbs will be around about 2 years. What are we doing to make sure that when the master leaves, that there is a grasshopper to carry on the work? Does anyone know if there is a designated under study so to speak that is learning how to contsruct and maintain this thing? If not, we may have some real issues after he leaves.it shouldn't bother you too much...heck, whats the alternative? Him never being here at all?

b0ng
05-31-2008, 01:24 PM
Almost without exception, linemen were better as Broncos under Gibbs than they were before or after.

That right there bothers me. I think most of us believe that Gibbs will be around about 2 years. What are we doing to make sure that when the master leaves, that there is a grasshopper to carry on the work? Does anyone know if there is a designated under study so to speak that is learning how to contsruct and maintain this thing? If not, we may have some real issues after he leaves.

If anybody has to run the Gibbs scheme after he leaves, then screw it, nobody better to do that than Kubiak right? I mean, our HC is a guy who learned under Gibbs for 10+ seasons, and now Gibbs is coming to work our O-line for a few years to get everybody up to speed. I don't really think it'll be that big of an issue when Gibbs leaves.

nunusguy
05-31-2008, 01:52 PM
I don't really think it'll be that big of an issue when Gibbs leaves.
FWIW I think ATL abandoned the ZB system shortley after Gibbs departed that scene.

Vinny
05-31-2008, 01:54 PM
FWIW I think ATL abandoned the ZB system shortley after Gibbs departed that scene.Petrino had his own system....we all see how well that worked out.

NBT
05-31-2008, 02:00 PM
Maybe we just oughta sit back and enjoy coach Gibbs while we got him. Enjoy the ride.

CloakNNNdagger
05-31-2008, 02:03 PM
Almost without exception, linemen were better as Broncos under Gibbs than they were before or after.

That right there bothers me. I think most of us believe that Gibbs will be around about 2 years. What are we doing to make sure that when the master leaves, that there is a grasshopper to carry on the work? Does anyone know if there is a designated under study so to speak that is learning how to contsruct and maintain this thing? If not, we may have some real issues after he leaves.


If the Texans HC and OC can adopt a strict COMMITMENT to the hard-nosed algorithm Gibbs system, this should not be an issue. However, if when Gibbs does eventually leave, and the HC or OC or "new blood" coaching staff starts jacking with "variations" on the theme as has happened following Gibbs' exit from other teams, expect accompanying variations on success.

awtysst
05-31-2008, 03:30 PM
Petrino had his own system....we all see how well that worked out.

Wasn't part of the problem players? I mean the ZBS has lighter more athletic lineman as opposed to the Petrino power game. I mean if you try to run the ZBS with heavy lineman its a disaster, just like if you try to run a power game with lighter lineman.

b0ng
05-31-2008, 05:03 PM
Petrino had his own system....we all see how well that worked out.

Was his the "Lose and Run" offense?

edo783
05-31-2008, 05:05 PM
If the Texans HC and OC can adopt a strict COMMITMENT to the hard-nosed algorithm Gibbs system, this should not be an issue. However, if when Gibbs does eventually leave, and the HC or OC or "new blood" coaching staff starts jacking with "variations" on the theme as has happened following Gibbs' exit from other teams, expect accompanying variations on success.

Yup, CND that is what I'm getting at. I know Kubes probably knows it pretty well, but he can't be coaching the line. The point I was trying to make was are we doing anything to promote continuity and if not, maybe we should be. Look at Denver, I don't know how many have picked up on it, but they are moving towards a more power type of scheme. My guess would be that they were/are having problems making it work without Gibbs after a few years of him being gone.

CloakNNNdagger
05-31-2008, 05:07 PM
Was his the "Lose and Run" offense?

No! The RUN and SHOOT yourself in the foot offense. :headhurts:

Honoring Earl 34
05-31-2008, 05:12 PM
I think what makes Gibbs so good is more than how well he knows the scheme . He's a throwback to a guy like Lombardi , who's players said ... he treats us all the same ... like dogs .

I think the key is that one of the young lineman pushes the group after Gibbs leaves . A guy that will set the bar high ... kinda like what they have going on defense .

Insideop
05-31-2008, 09:05 PM
Wasn't part of the problem players? I mean the ZBS has lighter more athletic lineman as opposed to the Petrino power game. I mean if you try to run the ZBS with heavy lineman its a disaster, just like if you try to run a power game with lighter lineman.


This is why I think Spencer will have a hard time making this team. He is our heaviest O-Lineman at 352 lbs, and coming off that injury after being out 2 years, it's going to be tough. I think we may see some surprise cuts after TC and Preseason.

When it's all said and done, I wouldn't be shocked to see an O-line that had Butler, Studdard, Myers, Brisiel, and Winston starting with Brown, Pitts, Eslinger, and maybe Frye being the backups, and Weary on the PUP or IR. Not saying this is what it will be, but don't be surprised if it is something like this. JMHO!

barrett
05-31-2008, 10:59 PM
[B][SIZE=4] What are we doing to make sure that when the master leaves, that there is a grasshopper to carry on the work? Does anyone know if there is a designated under study so to speak that is learning how to contsruct and maintain this thing? If not, we may have some real issues after he leaves.

i can only assume that john benton the offensive line coach is walking around with his fingers in his ears going "nah nah nah nah nah. i don't hear anything. nah nah nah nah"

i think it's pretty safe to assume that he is actually in Gibbs tiny little midget mastermind back pocket with a pencil and notepad absorbing everything including gibbs' ass sweat.

all the successful teams are promoting from within. coaches that get the system, work well with the other coaches, have repor with the players etc.

one of the reasons why kyle shanahan is our OC. he's been here. he knows the system. he's smart. (ok, his bloodline can't hurt). but look at teams like the colts. it's all IN THE FAMILY.

if you read obsessively about this team you'll find that it is a team that has players and coaches around the league talking about it. they're finding out it's an extremely tight nit staff of both players and coaches. i think you're going to find that this regime (if successful) will continue on in some fashion for some time to come.

i think that's the only way to build a true dynasty in this modern NFL. you have to have a cult like sort of thing going on that people want to "drink from the cup" just to be a part of it. they have to want to be here to keep any sense of consistency in an age when everybody is looking to advance there careers. they have to believe in the cult to want to stay.

unless benton just hates the ZBS and is quietly taking his lumps until his contract is up, i would imagine that he, or someone from within the organization, will be the one to continue the scheme (along with Kubiak obviously) for as long as it's successful.

barrett
05-31-2008, 11:01 PM
a second thought:

speaking of bloodlines... does the wiz have any kidz in the biz?

Lucky
06-01-2008, 09:13 AM
From the Gibbs article (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_2_225/ai_69404525/pg_2) Earl linked above:

What makes the Denver offensive line successful and unpopular is the same: The Broncos are not above the low blow. in fact, Broncos blockers are on the ground nearly as much as worms.

Among the players who have complained about Broncos going for their knees this year have been Oakland's Darrell Russell, St. Louis' D'Marco Farr and Baltimore's Rob Burnett.

In two games studied by THE SPORTING NEWS, the Broncos threw cut blocks--blocks at or below the knees--on 53 percent of their plays. They threw 60 cuts in one game, 62 in the other. Sometimes they have as many as four blockers cutting on one play, as left tackle Tony Jones, left guard Lennie Friedman, right tackle Matt Lepsis and tight end Dwayne Carswell did on a Mike Anderson run against the Saints.

The Broncos find the cut block most useful on running plays; 77 percent of their cuts came on runs in those games. Many of the cuts come on the backside of plays, such as when Jones and Friedman took out Seattle's Riddick Parker and Anthony Simmons on a 15-yard touchdown run by Anderson in Seattle.

Cut blocks aren't popular with defensive linemen, but they are within the rules. Not allowed are leg whips and chop blocks, which occur when a defender is engaged with one blocker and another blocker hits him low. The Broncos have been accused of all of these.

"The Broncos are dirty against tackles," Bears defensive end Phillip Daniels said. "They chop block them. I've seen it."One of the things I like about the cut block is the fear it puts into the defenders. Justifiable or not. We saw how Travis Johnson responded to Trent Green's cut block. Imagine multiple blockers going low on nearly every play. It gets into the defense's collective head and can be a psychological weapon.

One thing I find interesting about the cut block is how Gibbs will implement it in training camp. Certainly, they won't ask the linemen to practice cut blocks on their teammates. Right? Will 4 preseason games be enough to perfect the cut blocks?

Something else that will have my attention is the willingness of vets like Pitts and Weary to execute the cut block. The young linemen will do as they're told. But Pitts and Weary have been around and taken a lot of snaps. They may be set in their ways, and it will be intriguing to see how they will take to Gibbs' coaching.

edo783
06-01-2008, 09:33 AM
The young linemen will do as they're told. But Pitts and Weary have been around and ptaken a lot of snaps. They may be set in their ways, and it will be intriguing to see how they will take to Gibbs' coaching.

Acording to Duane Brown, one of the questions they (Gibbs?) asked him in his interview was "Are you willing to cut block". He said heck yes, he was doing it at VT. So, we have at least one guy that buys into the cut block thing.

ChampionTexan
06-01-2008, 09:56 AM
a second thought:

speaking of bloodlines... does the wiz have any kidz in the biz?

Yeah, but it probably doesn't matter.

David Gibbs is a DB coach with the Chiefs. No evidence I can find that he's ever coached on the offensive side of the ball.

Interesting that he was with the Bronco's (as a Secondary coach) from '01 thru '04 and then got fired in mid-season. Supposedly the firing caused a falling out between Shanny and Gibbs Sr.

Don't know if the rift between the two was real, and don't know if fences have been mended if it was, and don't see that as impacting us anyway, but it doesn't look like David will ever be succeeding his dad as an O-line guru.

Honoring Earl 34
06-01-2008, 10:03 AM
Gibbs, 59, crafted great offensive lines mostly with players other teams had no use for. Unlike just about every other coach, Gibbs didn't lobby to have his team select players for him in the high rounds. He preferred the leftovers, players who have something to prove. Gibbs tore these players down further, and then built them up.

This is why I think it'll be interesting about Pitts . Some of y'all like him ... I think he's got to much Cali cool . He's also made a pretty good chunk of change .

Studdard , Briesel , Weary , and Spencer ( if he's healthy and not to big ) are fighting for there football lives and will do whatever they're asked . Frye is hurt way to much .

The tackles with Winston , Butler , Salaam ,and Brown have never been better ... that of course is like finishing second in the miss ugly contest .