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rockabilly
12-12-2004, 11:01 PM
Looking at the Texans QB roster, I was wondering what everyone thought about Dave Ragone. I dont watch much college ball and dont know how good this guy really was in college, but apparently he is pretty good.

Anyway, I think David Carr has indeed shown some regression this 2nd half of the year. Maybe he is injured....who knows. Back to my statement. Sometimes, 1st draft picks do not end up being as good as teams would have hoped. I hope this is not the case here, but we have to look at it.

Looking at qbs like Roethlisburger and how they were not picked first, but are having way better seasons than the #1's are, how about giving Dave Ragone a chance to see if he has something. I dont think Tony Banks is an answer, but I would be really interested to see what happens if you plug in another qb.

Just a thought.

ArlingtonTexan
12-12-2004, 11:14 PM
Ragone started a game last year and played a bit on one or two others. His vervousness in the pocket makes Carr look like a staute. Of course, his OL at Louisville may have been the worse major college line that I have ever see. he was not impressive in pre-season and there have not been any rumblings that he is ready to assume the back-up job that he was drafted for.

I may as well get this line of thought started also. Right now Ragone is the poster boy of what could be wrong with BPA drafting as he is the most obvious best player despite need player picked under the Casserly administration.

Hervoyel
12-12-2004, 11:31 PM
Ragone started two games last season actually (Jax and Tampa Bay) and both were beat downs for the most part. As bad as our offense has looked at times (and I'm including 2002) I don't think it's ever looked as ineffective as it did during those two starts. He was so far from being ready to start an NFL game that "ready" wasn't even on the horizon. I'm not too sure that it's any closer today. Maybe a little bit.

Ragone is the answer to a question nobody asked. A wasted pick IMO that the Texans could have spent anywhere else on their team and gotten more value out of. He may indeed one day turn out to net the Texans something in trade or he may become a competent backup to David Carr but we didn't need to fill that need when he was chosen in 2003. We needed help everywhere else. Agree with ArlingtonTexan that Ragone was a Casserly mistake. Worst one yet.

Cheroqui
12-13-2004, 01:58 AM
I'm sure someone will look for a nice lefty to be the #3QB Steve Young re-incarnate, sure why not? ... and it will probably be one of those things were he shines for someone else after you let him go. :shocked

Cincinnatikid
12-13-2004, 10:17 AM
The guy may not have been that great in his two games last season, but remember this; he was a rookie learning a whole new offense in the NFL mind you. Also, if you forgot, the oline was terrible and that is why Carr was hurt, Banks was hurt, and i believe Ragone even got banged up when he was playing. Also, the guy was the best QB ever in Conference USA. He is one of the best quarterbacks ever at Louisville, maybe only after a guy named Johnny Unitas? So cut the guy some slack, becuase he is very good, but he was a rookie. And to be honest, even though he didnt show any superstar qualities, he didnt look any worse than Eli Manning does. And Carr has been on teh decline too.

wiley2002
12-13-2004, 10:21 AM
How did I know that the "put in Ragone" threads were coming. Man I should be psychic or something. Maybe they should have put me on the Larry King Live show instead of that other wanna be. Cut Carr a little bit of slack here. He's playing with a few injuries still hurting him. Plus I trust him moreso than a QB who is still wet behind the ears.

Wolf
12-13-2004, 10:23 AM
Ragones college stats where pretty close to some baseball/football player that we traded away.

Cincinnatikid
12-13-2004, 10:51 AM
no matter what, the guy had three seasons where he threw for almost 9000 yards and 74 touchdowns. He is not a bum like some people think, some day he will get a chance to play again and since he is now through more than 6 weeks in his first NFL season he will probably show he is capable. Not to say he should be the starter, but he is still a decent QB

Wolf
12-13-2004, 10:57 AM
he had a good college career and I was talking about Drew Henson and all the hype that he has gotten and Ragone's college stats are pretty close to his


I think with Ragone starting last season, some fans on here are being a little unfair with judging him. He had a bad game yes, but he was a rookie and with the same horrible OL that knocked Banks and Carr out of.

with that said. I don't think it is time for Ragone to start

wiley2002
12-13-2004, 11:00 AM
Finally someone that agrees. Thanks Wolf.

Hervoyel
12-13-2004, 11:07 AM
The guy may not have been that great in his two games last season, but remember this; he was a rookie learning a whole new offense in the NFL mind you. Also, if you forgot, the oline was terrible and that is why Carr was hurt, Banks was hurt, and i believe Ragone even got banged up when he was playing. Also, the guy was the best QB ever in Conference USA. He is one of the best quarterbacks ever at Louisville, maybe only after a guy named Johnny Unitas? So cut the guy some slack, becuase he is very good, but he was a rookie. And to be honest, even though he didnt show any superstar qualities, he didnt look any worse than Eli Manning does. And Carr has been on teh decline too.

Man don't get me wrong here. I don't have any sort of problem with Dave Ragone as a person or as a player. He really wasn't ready to play when it was handed to him and everyone knows that. I mean, your'e down to QB #3 so obviously things are getting desperate.

He could in time make somebody a very good quarterback. I am critical not of him as a person or player but of the Texans for picking him when they did in spite of needing help at many other positions. I just don't think he was the move the Texans should have made. Not knocking what he could become or anything like that, I just don't think he really belongs here.

Cincinnatikid
12-13-2004, 01:55 PM
there is nothing wrong with developing a 2nd QB, Banks is old. Maybe a 3rd pick is a bit high for a backup, but you want someone decent in case the starter gets hurt, otherwise you are just saying without your starting QB you give up. Thats why the Bengals signed Kitna when they named Palmer the starter in Cincinnati. You can never be too deep at QB.

Vinny
12-13-2004, 03:21 PM
I just don't think he really belongs here.Next year we have a guy in Ragone who will have studied your system for two full seasons and can make every throw in the book. New England goes with the same type QB situation in Rohan Davey right now. I think you need to rethink this.

Hervoyel
12-13-2004, 03:35 PM
Next year we have a guy in Ragone who will have studied your system for two full seasons and can make every throw in the book. New England goes with the same type QB situation in Rohan Davey right now. I think you need to rethink this.


I don't think so Vinny. When I say "I don't think he belongs here" I'm not talking about the Dave Ragone we'll have next year when he's had two full seasons and can make every throw in the book. What I've been trying to say is that I don't think that at the time selecting Ragone was the best way to go. Sure, no doubt about it having him ready to step in is a plus now (or next year). I'm not arguing that at all. I'm saying that I believe the Texans should have used that choice on another position at the time and stuck with a Mike Quinn level player in the short term. I'm just saying I'd have waited to start developing another young QB. At least for one more year if not two.

It's moot point now and yes, he does belong here now. I'm just expressing a different opinion regarding the order in which the Texans have chosen to do things.

El Tejano
12-13-2004, 03:51 PM
What did Ragone do to yall? How is it we are calling for this guys head and not Carr's right now. David has 3 games to make this season look like improvement and about half of next season before I am ready to pull the plug on him.

And yes, I have been a David Carr campaign manager since he was drafted and beat the Cowboys. The line also sucks real bad. This past game opened my eyes to that.

Hervoyel
12-13-2004, 04:32 PM
Ragone did nothing to me. I have no animosity towards him. I'm not in the least bit calling for his head.

I'm merely saying that back when we drafted him I would not have drafted a QB with that 3. The Texans had too many other needs where that pick might have made a difference and the QB position wasn't crying out for another rookie to teach yet. I agree that Ragone is now an asset who will help us in years to come.

I'd rather they had taken a player at any one of about a half dozen positions before another QB though. That simply would have been my preference.

Vinny
12-13-2004, 04:37 PM
I don't think so Vinny. When I say "I don't think he belongs here" I'm not talking about the Dave Ragone we'll have next year when he's had two full seasons and can make every throw in the book. What I've been trying to say is that I don't think that at the time selecting Ragone was the best way to go. Sure, no doubt about it having him ready to step in is a plus now (or next year). I'm not arguing that at all. I'm saying that I believe the Texans should have used that choice on another position at the time and stuck with a Mike Quinn level player in the short term. I'm just saying I'd have waited to start developing another young QB. At least for one more year if not two.

It's moot point now and yes, he does belong here now. I'm just expressing a different opinion regarding the order in which the Texans have chosen to do things.If I recall we had 3 third round picks that year, and Ragone was the 88th overall pick. In the QB position you have to be thinking ahead so I can't fault them taking Ragone with the third choice in the third round of a draft where you start with 3 third round picks. Wand, Peek and Ragone was a pretty solid 3rd round if you ask me. All three of these guys should play an important role in our 2005 team.

Hervoyel
12-13-2004, 04:59 PM
Do you think Ragone passes Banks on the depth chart next year? I've wondered if Banks is about done here recently so just curious.

Vinny
12-13-2004, 05:07 PM
This will be Banks last year. Ragone and Symmons will be 2 and 3 I would bet.

shinerbock_texas
12-13-2004, 05:51 PM
This will be Banks last year. Ragone and Symmons will be 2 and 3 I would bet.

With that scenario playing out, Ragone will have to play his ars$ off to hold off Symmons. From everything I have read and heards Symmons' arm is as good as most starters around the league. Two young hungry back-up QBs is very good. They can push each other to become even better. :hmmm:

shinerbock_texas
12-13-2004, 05:53 PM
Further to the above (2) young QBS, can you see I either being sent to NFL Europe for prep work? Its good training for the young QBS.

If I remember correctly the Patriots QB Rohan played over in Eurpoe quite well.

rhc564
12-13-2004, 07:05 PM
...correct me if I'm wrong but in one of Ragone's 2 starts he threw 2
long 'bombs' that hit the receiver in the hands at full stride-- both passes
were dropped...also, Ragone came out of college with some impressive
credentials, like being a 2 time offensive player of the year in his conference,
right or wrong? :hmmm:

Cincinnatikid
12-13-2004, 07:15 PM
...correct me if I'm wrong but in one of Ragone's 2 starts he threw 2
long 'bombs' that hit the receiver in the hands at full stride-- both passes
were dropped...also, Ragone came out of college with some impressive
credentials, like being a 2 time offensive player of the year in his conference,
right or wrong? :hmmm:

Actually you are wrong. He was a THREE time offensive player of the year in C-USA.

Hervoyel
12-13-2004, 08:20 PM
You're correct about the dropped passes though. It seemed like those two starts were a complete team meltdown. For starters he had Hollings running for him which pretty much translated to no running game. Hollings wasn't ready to be in there either but both of them were pressed into service because of injuries to Carr, Banks, and Davis The line blocked for him like they were trying to get him caught up on David Carr's 2002 experience, and when he did hit recievers they dropped most everything he hit them with. I don't think much of anything worked in those games.

But when they were over Capers was positive that the team would get through this and he remained impressed with their character and effort. There were good things he saw on film after those games and he was impressed with the way the team never quit (which technically was true at least in the Jacksonville game because you can't quit if you never bother to start)

mac15
12-13-2004, 10:10 PM
I have to agree with Cinci. But, why so caught up on the "third round draft pick"? Had he left his junior year he would have went 1, or early in the 2nd. (Blame the third round on the poor O-line at U of L.) At least he's got experience with that?! Bottom line--you can't judge his potential on the 2 games he played his rookie season. Seems to me you've really got nothing to lose giving the guy a shot. Rather it be the offensive coordinator, O-line, or QB--there's a problem somewhere. I still stand by a future post--Ragone will grow into a good QB with the right organization. I don't know if it's here or not, but you might as well give him some playing time while he's here before you cut him loose and he ends up being an asset that you could have used all along.

rockabilly
12-13-2004, 11:02 PM
Look at the way Volek is playing for the Titans. 3 tds so far for the Titans. I second the notion to move out Banks and bring Ragone to 2nd and Symmons to 3rd. I wonder how much better Carr would be if he DIDNT think he had job security. Think about it. Wouldnt you play a bit harder and get more emotional with your offense if you knew that at any moment, Dave Ragone could replace you as starter?

I think that may be a problem as well. Does Carr's knowing that the Texans office will not let him go or bench him have him not in the game at full throttle?

Also, how was Symmons in college? (Again, I do not watch college ball)

rhc564
12-13-2004, 11:20 PM
Look at the way Volek is playing for the Titans. 3 tds so far for the Titans. I second the notion to move out Banks and bring Ragone to 2nd and Symmons to 3rd. I wonder how much better Carr would be if he DIDNT think he had job security. Think about it. Wouldnt you play a bit harder and get more emotional with your offense if you knew that at any moment, Dave Ragone could replace you as starter?

I think that may be a problem as well. Does Carr's knowing that the Texans office will not let him go or bench him have him not in the game at full throttle?

Also, how was Symmons in college? (Again, I do not watch college ball)
Symmons(sp) only started his senior year at Texas Tech but broke virtually
every major passing record for a single season-- one year totals were better
than some guys entire careers

TexanExile
12-14-2004, 11:00 PM
And then, of course, we have Ragone's outstanding performances in the preseason of 2004, where he excelled at moving the team backwards via fumbled snaps and blown plays. This guy wasn't even close to a #2 QB this season.

If Carr's regressing, he needs to play through it. Also, this isn't the time to start experimenting at QB because this team still owes its fans at LEAST 2 more wins to stay on a consistent path of improvement.

I agree that Symons and the Rag will be the backups next year and I'm OK with that, assuming Symons recovers fully. I have to say that about our draft picks because we seem to have a problem with drafting injured people who never get better (Boselli, Joppru, Hollings)...on the other hand, we got a steal with the damaged Glenn Earl.

One thing I remind myself is that backup QBs can vary dramatically based on their supporting cast. Case in point: Brian Griese was absolutely HORRIBLE in a brief midseason run in Miami last year, but seems to have redeemed himself somewhat this year. Maybe Ragone, through either changes around him or growth as a pro, will perform much better in 2005's camp. So far I've seen little to support that, but I hope it happens.

TexansNFL
12-14-2004, 11:32 PM
[Agree with ArlingtonTexan that Ragone was a Casserly mistake. Worst one yet.[/QUOTE]

Wow...Ragone worse than Boselli...Young, Jopru, McKinney, Bradford, Carr???

ArlingtonTexan
12-15-2004, 12:15 AM
[Agree with ArlingtonTexan that Ragone was a Casserly mistake. Worst one yet.

Wow...Ragone worse than Boselli...Young, Jopru, McKinney, Bradford, Carr???[/QUOTE]

i don't think i said he was the worse mistake, but if you wish to criticize BPA philosophy that Ragone has been a negative example of what can happen when you pick a position you don't need.

I could still be wrong and he proves an effective back-up QB, but my inital impression tell me no.