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HJam72
12-12-2004, 09:14 PM
OK, Robinson hits Manning while simultaneously hitting the ball in Manning's throwing hand. The ball comes out. First, the refs rule that Manning was in the motion of throwing. Capers wants a review. The refs then find that Manning was NOT in the motion of throwing and that Dunta did, in fact, knock the ball out, completely of his own doing. BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER. COLTS STILL GET THE BALL BACK.

I'm not arguing over whether this is or is not a game breaking play. I just want to know who the COMPLETE MORON is who came up with that rule. Am I missing something? Did the Colts actually recover the fumble, because that's not what I saw? I am wrong about something in that first paragraph?

Here's what I think. I think it's a perfect example of how the league is leaning more and more toward the offense in every way. If you fall down sometime in the next minute or two after a fumble then you were down by contact. If you hit the QB even a split second after he throws a pass, then it's roughing the passer. If you take 3 steps and get outside the tackle, then you can throw the ball backwards and into the stands behind your own endzond, but that's still not intentional grounding. If you even sneeze on a receiver, then it's a freaking 45 yard penalty. The man got his ego chopped off and fumbled the ball!!! Don't give it back to him, for crying out loud. He doesn't need the refs to help him.

Vinny
12-12-2004, 09:18 PM
Whistle blows. Play dead. Nothing matters once they blow their whistles.

HJam72
12-12-2004, 09:25 PM
Uh-huh. Makes sense. They need to start firing referees for stopping plays like that all the time. It happens way too much. That's a huge play and, in closer competitions, it could be a game breaker.

I swear, it's like they blow the whistle so they won't have to decipher what's going to happen next. Oh, it's happening to fast and I need a time-out to think about it---tweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!! Who cares if you just gave the offense their life back.

Here's the thing. They gotta let that play continue. The ref thinks he saw forward motion, but you can't tell me he was really certain about it. He blew the whistle to try and stop EVERYBODY from jumping on the ball. They need to let the play continue and then allow for the review. Just because you sorta, kinda, mighta, thought you saw that the play was over doesn't mean you have to always blow the whistle immediately and screw the defense. When are they gonna start blowing the whistle when a guys wide open with the ball at the 50? Hey, he's gonna score anyway. Let's just save him all that running and give him 6 points. :hairpull:

coltsrock
12-12-2004, 09:37 PM
Actually, it's not quite the conspiracy you think it is. Last week (I think), the same thing happened to the Colts defense. They forced the fumble, but it was called an incomplete pass and the whistle was blown. Play over. Coach Dungy challenged, and it was ruled a fumble, but since the whistle had blown, it went back to the offense. The only thing the Colts got was the loss of the yards and the down.

In the game today, the pass was called a forward pass. There is no reason to let the play progress at that point, and to protect the players the whistle is blown and the play is stopped. Therefore the defense could not recover.

It's unfortunate, but that's the only way it can work. The recovery was made AFTER the whistle, therefore not made when the play was active.

This is one of the anomolies given to us by replay. And it has to be that way. Do I think that was a fumble? Yep! Do I think the refs blew the call? Yep! Did they do the right thing with the possession? Yep, they did the only thing they could.

It's an imperfect world. There were enough calls tat went the wrong way on BOTH sides. I know that sucks for you all, but they did what they had to do with the possession once the call was reversed.

Great game today, guys! You all have been down on your team all week leading up to this game. They're a good team, and the pieces are starting to fall into place. That's the lowest score the Colts have had this year! You've got some good times ahead! See you next year! Good luck through the rest of the season, and here's to NO INJURIES!

HJam72
12-12-2004, 10:00 PM
According to the rules, they did what they had to do. You THINK the plays over , so you HAVE to blow the whistle. It's a stupid rule. All the players are already in the midst of battle, so to speak. It's not like somebody's gonna get caught off guard and get hurt. The rule needs to change, and, yes, then they need to come down hard on refs who end plays that aren't over.

It's not right when it happens to the Colts, or us, or anybody else. It needs to stop. The end of an important play, or any play, should never be decided by the fact that a REFEREE made a mistake during the play. I know it happens, but it's just absurd. They shouldn't be getting all whistle happy until the ball is either out of bounds or underneath somebody who's laying on the ground (or in the endzone).

HJam72
12-12-2004, 10:05 PM
The Colts were, however, the better team today (no big surprise). Good luck in the playoffs.

Newly
12-12-2004, 10:30 PM
I understand the rule, but what is it with the officials these last few games. Picking up flags, inadvertant whistles, long conferences with each other, coaches, players. I was under the impression that you do not throw the flag unless you are 100 % sure you saw a foul. the only time that I would think that you might have to pick up a flag is ifthe ball was tipped on a pass interference call and the tip not seen by the back judge. this is the second week in a row that an official has picked up the flag for blocking in the back. Either the block is in the back and you throw the flag or it was from the side and you don't throw the flag.It is not the easiest call to make sometimes, but the official needs to make hte call and stick with it. Also with all the conferences and official timeouts, the game seems to lose all rythym. Hard for either team to get comfortable.
The Colts were the better team today and I am not blaming the officials, but i had to get this rant out of my system.

HJam72
12-12-2004, 11:30 PM
We got away with that one, too. He threw the flag and then reversed the call and said it was not a block in the back after all. IT WAS TOO A BLOCK IN BACK! The colts should've been able to review it and make him reverse his reverse, lol.

TexansTrueFan
12-13-2004, 03:08 AM
Actually, it's not quite the conspiracy you think it is. Last week (I think), the same thing happened to the Colts defense. They forced the fumble, but it was called an incomplete pass and the whistle was blown. Play over. Coach Dungy challenged, and it was ruled a fumble, but since the whistle had blown, it went back to the offense. The only thing the Colts got was the loss of the yards and the down.

In the game today, the pass was called a forward pass. There is no reason to let the play progress at that point, and to protect the players the whistle is blown and the play is stopped. Therefore the defense could not recover.

It's unfortunate, but that's the only way it can work. The recovery was made AFTER the whistle, therefore not made when the play was active.

This is one of the anomolies given to us by replay. And it has to be that way. Do I think that was a fumble? Yep! Do I think the refs blew the call? Yep! Did they do the right thing with the possession? Yep, they did the only thing they could.

It's an imperfect world. There were enough calls tat went the wrong way on BOTH sides. I know that sucks for you all, but they did what they had to do with the possession once the call was reversed.

Great game today, guys! You all have been down on your team all week leading up to this game. They're a good team, and the pieces are starting to fall into place. That's the lowest score the Colts have had this year! You've got some good times ahead! See you next year! Good luck through the rest of the season, and here's to NO INJURIES!


oh yeah and i suppose that call really hurt the colts chances of winning huh :hmmm:

infantrycak
12-13-2004, 08:47 AM
Whistle blows. Play dead. Nothing matters once they blow their whistles.

Well that explains it, but it doesn't make it a good call. Why exactly was a whistle blown at that point in the play? Absolutely miserable call. Of course it matched the "Manning was down by stop of forward progress" call--anyone want to seriously say that if Manning had gotten a pass off as he was attempting to do at the three yard line that the refs wouldn't have called it a completion?--by the way the freakin whistle hadn't been blown yet on that play.

TheOgre
12-13-2004, 08:53 AM
Well that explains it, but it doesn't make it a good call. Why exactly was a whistle blown at that point in the play? Absolutely miserable call. Of course it matched the "Manning was down by stop of forward progress" call--anyone want to seriously say that if Manning had gotten a pass off as he was attempting to do at the three yard line that the refs wouldn't have called it a completion?--by the way the freakin whistle hadn't been blown yet on that play.

Hey if the whistle blew, then the team shouldn't lose a timeout and review. It should have been an unreviewable call.

I was upset about the non-call on the intentional grounding by Manning. It was weird they called it a sack when the guy hadn't even touched him yet.

BigDTexansFan
12-13-2004, 09:29 AM
Even the name sounds bad, have watched enuff games to know Ed Hoculi and Tom Brown (bozo from Jets game) are 2 of the worst refs in NFL. They consistently blow calls and then when asked to review ( don't we all wish when our boss complained could review our own mistakes) they always uphold their blown calls. NFL will be a joke as long as they do not properly utilize instant replay and free up coaches to help them....look at MLB twice they stopped play and reviewed and made the right call (and not for pizza).


:thud:

wiley2002
12-13-2004, 09:33 AM
Even the name sounds bad, have watched enuff games to know Ed Hoculi and Tom Brown (bozo from Jets game) are 2 of the worst refs in NFL. They consistently blow calls and then when asked to review ( don't we all wish when our boss complained could review our own mistakes) they always uphold their blown calls. NFL will be a joke as long as they do not properly utilize instant replay and free up coaches to help them....look at MLB twice they stopped play and reviewed and made the right call (and not for pizza).

That and don't let the refs be like gods out on the field.

cuppacoffee
12-13-2004, 10:27 AM
Maybe they wanted to help the Colts so they could tell their grandchildren that they were there when Payaton set the record. :jk:

cac :coffee:

wiley2002
12-13-2004, 10:38 AM
Instead of NFL teams firing their coaches at the first sign of a losing season, maybe the league should consider firing refs after blowing games like this all the friggin' time.

Double Barrel
12-13-2004, 10:51 AM
I'm even more aggravated to hear on Texans radio during the game that the refs told Brett Favre that time was about to run out and that he needs to call a timeout. Favre did and it gave them a chance to win the game with a fieldgoal! (Mark Vandamer and John Granato were talking about it.)

Refs should NOT help out teams in this way! This defies the aura of impartial decisions and shows preferential treatment. Total B.S.!!

Hervoyel
12-13-2004, 10:51 AM
It's just one of those things. It's the kind of call where you get the shaft even if it gets corrected you still can't make it right. What drove me nuts more than anything once I understood what had happened was Randy Cross talking about how "the correct call ended up being made". That's just not the case. The correct call couldn't be made because the fool with the whistle blew it before the play had truly ended. The official made a mistake and the rule book then dictated that the mistake, once it had been acknowledged, was validated.

They spotted the ball at the place it hit the ground per the rules but what if the Colts had been throwing on 3rd and 1 or 2? What if the ball had been batted fifteen yards down the field? The Colts would have had a first down or some other ridiculous outcome. The only way the Texans could have possibly come up with the ball in this scenario was for Sharper to actually pluck it out of the air before it hit the ground.

No sense worrying about it anymore though. It's just one of those awkward places in the rule book that you hope doesn't come up in your game. Maybe it could be addressed or made more equitable but I don't see how.

El Tejano
12-13-2004, 11:43 AM
I think this game was a bunch of **** and it was obvious the NFL was determined to see Payton Manning break the record. It seemed as if the officials were going out of their way to give Payton the ball back. How convenient it is to make the "correct" calls for this team but make some piece of **** intentional grounding call last week on a miscommunication from QB to receiver. This makes two weeks in a row.

I really feel the NFL wanted their Poster Child to break this record now.

Double Barrel
12-13-2004, 11:47 AM
I agree El Tejano. It does seem there is a bit of favoring going on with the NFL's golden child. Just my opinion, of course. ;)

My buddies and I were laughing at the game, as we fully expected a penalty thrown for "Impeding Payton's Chance to Break the Record". Twweeeeet, send three defenders to the penalty box! :heh:

El Tejano
12-13-2004, 11:50 AM
It was very plain to see and anyone who doesn't think so even a little bit, is in denial.

coltsrock
12-13-2004, 12:04 PM
oh yeah and i suppose that call really hurt the colts chances of winning huh

--Actually, it has nothing to do with it. Yeah, it came at a bad time for you. Like I said, it sucks. These things have happened to the Colts at bad times too. It's what happens when you have HUMANS making calls.

They shouldn't be getting all whistle happy until the ball is either out of bounds or underneath somebody who's laying on the ground (or in the endzone).

--Once the play is over, it's over. They have to blow the whistle. I suppose they shouldn't blow the whistle until the pile is UNpiled because someone else may come out with it. The problem is in the replay system. Before replays, these situations didn't come up.

That and don't let the refs be like gods out on the field.

--Actually, the refs ARE the gods out there. That's their JOB. They make the final judgement, even when respectfully asked to reconsider when a coach throws a red flag. If they weren't the gods out there, you may as not tune in anymore to watch. It's be horrible.

by the way the freakin whistle hadn't been blown yet on that play.

--Again, it doesn't matter. It was ruled an incomplete pass on the field. That made the play over even though the whistle hadn't been blown yet.

Here's the thing. They gotta let that play continue. The ref thinks he saw forward motion, but you can't tell me he was really certain about it. He blew the whistle to try and stop EVERYBODY from jumping on the ball. They need to let the play continue and then allow for the review. Just because you sorta, kinda, mighta, thought you saw that the play was over doesn't mean you have to always blow the whistle immediately and screw the defense.

--Nope. The refs actually get PAID to make these kinds of judgement calls. It's their JOB. Did they blow that call? Yep. But he thought he saw the forward motion. What he saw was the arm come forward because it was knocked forward. At game speed, he has to make the call RIGHT THEN. He did that and stopped the play. Not many of us could honestly do it as well as any of these refs. We have the benefit of the replay. They don't, they make the call before it comes up on the Jumbotron.

the only time that I would think that you might have to pick up a flag is ifthe ball was tipped on a pass interference call and the tip not seen by the back judge.

--Nail on the head, kinda. These guys are making calls at game speed. They may not see something, or their vision may be blocked from something and they make the best call they can. Another ref may have seen something. All info is passed on to the referee (white hat), and he makes the final determination.

Ya'll, you have a good team down there in Houston. They're going to be a force to reckoned with, I think next year. The refs blew some calls, but that wasn't what turned the game. There were blown calls both ways. And believe it or not, it worked both ways in terms of helping the other team, this one was just more visible. And the wrong call. But as long as you have people making the calls, it won't be perfect. I know it's frustrating. Look at the AFCC last year. The Colts receivers got MANHANDLED all day. Really hampered the O, and it was against the rules! But we lost, NE won and went on to win the SB. It happens.

Great game, ya'll. We'll see you next year! By the way, Reliant is SO COOL! Looks like Indy will be getting a retractable roof, too, only I hope we put in FieldTurf.

beerlover
12-13-2004, 12:24 PM
I think this game was a bunch of **** and it was obvious the NFL was determined to see Payton Manning break the record. It seemed as if the officials were going out of their way to give Payton the ball back. How convenient it is to make the "correct" calls for this team but make some piece of **** intentional grounding call last week on a miscommunication from QB to receiver. This makes two weeks in a row.

I really feel the NFL wanted their Poster Child to break this record now.

have to agree Tejano. I was looking right at Dunta coming off the top corner around the back side & thru Peyton knocking the ball out before he ever tried to shovel it or what ever the hell they called. The ball came out & Walker I think grabbed it simulstanously as they blew the whistle, I figured for a change of possession. I was standing & screaming ALLRIGHT GREAT PLAY, the next moment I was screaming WHAT THE HELL, THAT WAS A FUMBLE, THAT WAS A FUMBLE. Needless to say I was'nt the only pissed off fan at the game, just that I was paying close attention to the entire play unfold in front of my eyes and the results were completly different than warranted.

speaks to conspiracy theory :hairpull:

the next moment the refs where handing the ball back to the Colt offense.

Doug
12-13-2004, 12:45 PM
IMO, I'm more concerned with the false starts and the sacks as well as our QB productivity than a call made by a ref. Our team shouldn't have allowed themselves to be put in a position where a call by a ref would dictate the flow of this game. Was it a bogus call, I think so but did it cost us the game, no.

beerlover
12-13-2004, 01:14 PM
you can't say it did or did'nt we'll never know for sure. momentum is fickle

that being said I sure would like all of those things too but thats no more real than any other aspect of a game including the rules and how they are applied.

TexansTrueFan
12-13-2004, 01:20 PM
YES the nfl wanted manning to break the record on us, and the officals seemed determined to do just that. And dont give me all that **** about we're whinning, maybe its just we're not blind :listening

TheOgre
12-13-2004, 01:31 PM
Our team shouldn't have allowed themselves to be put in a position where a call by a ref would dictate the flow of this game.

Football is a game of momentum. I totally disagree that a very bad call cannot effect a game.

El Tejano
12-13-2004, 03:07 PM
If you add the TD Walker would've/should've counted the score is 24-23 on that alone. Let's not also forget that when James fumbled, it was clearly recovered by Polk and they immediately (without compromise) said that it was still Indy ball. If the correct call is made there, you can wipe off 7 points from that drive and the Texans aren't down 14-0 to the Colts. However, Manning was very close to throwing in the redzone where most of his TDs have come from so hey--Colts ball.

chuckm
12-13-2004, 03:40 PM
:hmmm:

Am I the only one had a feeling of dread come over them when Hochuli walked out of the tunnel before the game?

:hairpull:

Youngstown Colt
12-13-2004, 03:42 PM
If you add the TD Walker would've/should've counted the score is 24-23 on that alone.
wait, do you mean on the play where you guys said it should have been intentional grounding?

gwallaia
12-13-2004, 03:49 PM
Hochuli should be tested for steroids.

LenMan
12-13-2004, 03:50 PM
Welcome to Houston Pro Football Hell. Historically we have always been screwed by the officials. Anyone remember Renfro's corner of the endzone catch or the dreaded "inadvertent whistle"? I have come to expect it.

chuckm
12-13-2004, 03:55 PM
Welcome to Houston Pro Football Hell. Historically we have always been screwed by the officials. Anyone remember Renfro's corner of the endzone catch or the dreaded "inadvertent whistle"? I have come to expect it.


Yea I hear you but I'm not really complaining about the officiating. There's enough crappy calls to go around. However I told my wife during the coin flip that he'd nail us before the game was over. :( I'm not implying (nor would any sane person on this board) that the best team lost but I sure would like to be able to go back in time and see how things play out if Sharper scoops up the fumble and runs the other way with it.

HJam72
12-13-2004, 05:00 PM
----Once the play is over, it's over. They have to blow the whistle. I suppose they shouldn't blow the whistle until the pile is UNpiled because someone else may come out with it. The problem is in the replay system. Before replays, these situations didn't come up.

The play wasn't over and nobody had to blow any whistle because it wasn't over until they did. They need to change that rule where you have to blow the whistle just because you THINK the play is over. Defenses get COMPLETELY BURNED because of that way too often. He blew the whistle because he was about 51% sure that that play was over. That's a STUPID, STUPID rule.

OK, so maybe we would still have lost, but I'm still really tired of that kind of ****. Instant replay helps them get things right, but it can't do it if they are too hardheaded to change some of the stupid rules that were designed to work before instant replay. Maybe when it has a major effect on a Superbowl or Championship game they'll change the rule. Nah, it's the NFL. They'll just get emarrassed and do away with instant replay again.

The problem is in the replay system.

Really? You mean the replay is wrong? That can't be right. Payton can't be sacked. I hope you're talking about how stupid it is to have to stop a play that needs to continue and be reviewed later.

IndyCrunk
12-13-2004, 05:07 PM
Hochuli should be tested for steroids.

LOL!! I want this dude to come and play for my team.

About the REFS: I understand how you can MISS a call because someone is in your line of sight, you're too far away, you're hit by a player and on your rump, etc. However, there has been so much BS this year with refs completely blowing it because they do not execute the rules correctly.

Examples: last night in the Redskins game, being in the final 2mins of the game, a play that clearly gets a first down but is marked way short - they don't go to the official's replay until the Skins call a timeout and they have a chance to think about it <- inexcusable. Last Mon night, Keyshaun's TD catch in the final 2mins, clearly not a catch and never looked at <- inexcusable. You won't like this one - the play in the Colts/Texans game where Manning threw the ball right before being sacked. The ball hit Edgerrin James (an eligible reciever) and the play is called a sack (BTW, Texans fans wanted "intentional grounding" but the result was the same - loss of down and ruled a sack). Horrible call because the rule states that if it hits an eligible reciever, he has a chance to catch it, and the call should have been 'incomplete'. Again, poor execution of the rules. Finally, the famous Peyton fumble recovered by Texans (again, an identical situation Colts fans saw last week vs TENN) that was challanged and actually ruled a fumble, the correct call but Colts retain possession. I call this BAD refereeing because the whistle blew so quickly. They need to let the play CONTINUE and then they can decide amongst themselves if it was actually an incomplete pass! They have the power to overturn themselves and if they don't then it can be challanged. I feel like I've seen complete mental breakdowns in refereeing this year and it sucks.

Anyhow, my condolences on the loss. I wish you guys weren't in our division because I like the Texans. Sweetest logo in the league. Peas ...piece ... peace

whotex8
12-14-2004, 01:10 AM
Hochuli sucks Toro's "mountain oysters". His favoritism is more obvious than those extreme makeover pecs and bi-sex....errr um.. ..bi-ceps that he displays. It's a disgrace for someone like him to blatantly make bad calls. These refs' calls should be over-ruled when they are as obvious as they are. Respect my arse..if you don't repremand these Ref's calls such as some of the calls Hochi has made in the last few games, it becomes rampant. :hairpull:
Refs like him play God on the field because the NFL allows them to do so, and they don't have the skills to be real football players. :loser
Note: Not all Refs are biased and make bad calls. But whe the obvious stares you right in the face, there should be some type of grievance that coaches can take to overturn the ruling of the refs, even after the game. Penalize them monetarily or with suspension for making crappy calls, especially after the call has been reviewed and they stick to their guns when it is so obvious that they blew the call. :shocked
Assinine calls like this cause a Team to either lose a game or lose momentum.
Don't let these guys determine the outcome of the game.
A Ref should be impartial, which is more than I can say for this Hoochie butthole. Somebody poke him with a fork and deflate his ego. He's way over-done.
I can accept calls against our team when they are legit. Open your eyes Hooch or are you somebody's biatch!?!

aj.
12-14-2004, 06:22 AM
A Ref should be impartial
What about when Hochuli left his mike on while explaining a call to the coaching staff and he turned to Peyton and said "you know you can't spike the ball out of the shotgun, right?" To which Peyton said "Uh....yeah." It wasn't audible in the stadium but the guys in the booth heard it. That would be called coaching, and refs shouldn't really be having those conversations with players. Now if he would be explaining it after it happened, yes, but not before.

Bad calls happen. Tennessee got a really bad one last night. It doesn't only happen to us.

txhoosier
12-14-2004, 07:26 AM
Look...it was bad call...no offense intended, but if the calls went the Texans way, all of you who are FURIOUS would not be complaining. While stationed in Cali, I got the opportunity to try my hand at refereeing. Granted, this was basketball, but the point that I am going to make is on the same premise.

We started ref'ing games on film. We studied the rule books, and took test after test after test. We were graded, and the top 10% of us moved on to ref actual games. We started with HS basketball games, and the top performers there went on to the college ranks, and so on and so on. Those HS games were already at a speed that it was difficult to make the right calls. I could not imagine what the college game was like. Fortunately for me, my military commitments would not give me the time off to ref the college games, and I had to withdraw from the program.

What that experience gave me was a GREAT understanding and sympathy for referees, and the job that they do. I no longer question the umpire in my softball leagues, because he is human, and prone to make mistakes. If I get a bad call in my pickup b-ball leagues, I don't complain...I just go to the other end of the floor.

Oh, and for you conspiracy theorists who think the NFL is "in on" PM's getting the record, I'm about as tired of that garbage as I am of Reggie Miller's crying to the NBA about small market teams. And Uncle Reg is probably one of my favorite all time basketball players. If PM were the Texans QB, you would be defending him with all your fingertips on these message boards.

Great game Sunday. The Texans showed me that they are a force to be reckoned with...and I think this off season will be different from previous ones. I think you'll see a lot more Carr and the offense working together to get the rapport that Manning has with his receivers.

HJam72
12-14-2004, 07:47 AM
I don't know about all this conspiracy stuff either, but blowing the whistle so soon was a bonehead move. When he did it, he was saying, "I'm 100% sure that that was a forward motion pass." How can you be so sure when a QB gets hit and throws the ball in the dirt (I mean grass, lol) and not even in the direction of a receiver or in the direction that he was even looking when it left his hand? You can't. Referees in the NFL are whistle happy. The idea is to blow the whistle before anyone can start scrambling for the ball and also so they'll have less play to decipher in the first place. It's an automatic reaction. Blow the whistle and ALWAYS give the ball back to the offense--almost like DO OVER!

It's kind of like the call in basketball where, if you have the ball, you can run into anyone and throw the ball up at the hoop, because it's ALWAYS a foul on the defensive player, unless he's been standing there for an eternity waiting for you to run into him. [I could go on and on about the rediculous way games are called in basketball. I rooted for Charles Barkley as a rocket, but he was footketball player.] And it's the same exact problem: TOO MANY WHISTLES.

I understand what you're saying about refereeing (stange word) being a tough job, but there's a rule there somewhere that needs to be changed. Maybe it's an unwritten rule. Here's the jest of it: STOP ENDING PLAYS THAT AREN'T OVER YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hairpull:

You know what they should have had to do after it was decided that they had made a mistake blowing the whistle? This would embarrass the officials and I love it. They should have had to flip the coin to see who gets the ball where it landed. With all the fans at the game and on TV and, no doubt, on the news everywhere later, the officials have to flip the coin in the middle of a game to decide who would have recovered it, because they GOOOOOOFED AGAIN.

txhoosier
12-14-2004, 09:34 AM
I don't know about all this conspiracy stuff either, but blowing the whistle so soon was a bonehead move. When he did it, he was saying, "I'm 100% sure that that was a forward motion pass." How can you be so sure when a QB gets hit and throws the ball in the dirt (I mean grass, lol) and not even in the direction of a receiver or in the direction that he was even looking when it left his hand? You can't. Referees in the NFL are whistle happy. The idea is to blow the whistle before anyone can start scrambling for the ball and also so they'll have less play to decipher in the first place. It's an automatic reaction. Blow the whistle and ALWAYS give the ball back to the offense--almost like DO OVER!

It's kind of like the call in basketball where, if you have the ball, you can run into anyone and throw the ball up at the hoop, because it's ALWAYS a foul on the defensive player, unless he's been standing there for an eternity waiting for you to run into him. [I could go on and on about the rediculous way games are called in basketball. I rooted for Charles Barkley as a rocket, but he was footketball player.] And it's the same exact problem: TOO MANY WHISTLES.

I understand what you're saying about refereeing (stange word) being a tough job, but there's a rule there somewhere that needs to be changed. Maybe it's an unwritten rule. Here's the jest of it: STOP ENDING PLAYS THAT AREN'T OVER YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hairpull:

You know what they should have had to do after it was decided that they had made a mistake blowing the whistle? This would embarrass the officials and I love it. They should have had to flip the coin to see who gets the ball where it landed. With all the fans at the game and on TV and, no doubt, on the news everywhere later, the officials have to flip the coin in the middle of a game to decide who would have recovered it, because they GOOOOOOFED AGAIN.
while i understand your frustration...flipping a coin MIGHT embarass the refs, but that is the only thing it would accomplish. The teams would get screwed, and you can rest assured that Your team will get screwed more than mine, but I'll say mine gets screwed more than yours, and it will just be another thread on the MB.

When refs make mistakes like this, they get hit in the wallet...they are skipped over when the schedule is made out, and FORGET working the playoffs. The league does it's job in recruiting these guys, and for the most part, they do a good job. They make mistakes, and when they do, they appear to do so in bunches...

I would encourage any of you who are vehemently complaining to sign up to referee...ref a few games, and see if you can do what they do, even on a rec league game. I think you will see just how difficult it is. Being an armchair referee is as easy as being a Monday Morning QB.

wiley2002
12-14-2004, 09:43 AM
Being an armchair referee is as easy as being a Monday Morning QB.

Amen to that. Sometimes I have to see the replay every time to be sure I was right or not. We should add a bit of reality tv to the refs' lives for when they blow obvious calls A LOT. Let's throw them on an island with the team they screwed over and come back in about a week. Any takers on that?

HJam72
12-14-2004, 02:21 PM
It's just frustrating that they can't do anything about it once they've made the mistake of blowing the whistle too soon. It's an uncorrectable mistake.

txhoosier
12-14-2004, 03:27 PM
inadvertent whistles are a boon to everyone...

You may or may not remember, but a few years ago, the Colts were in a game...4th quarter, down by 3. Moving the chains, with enough time for a couple more plays, but in the red zone. Manning told the head ref that he was going to fake the spike. Teams lined up, PM takes the snap, fakes the spike, and proceeds to walk over towards the sidelines...one of the line judges blew his whistle right as the defense relaxed and manning headed into the end zone for the touchdown. Rule was that the inadvertent whistle made the play dead, and there was 1 second left to kick the FG to send the game into OT, where the Colts lost the game.

But...they are part of the game, and there are rules there for when they happen. They do suck, you won't hear me defending them...

Yankee_In_TX
12-14-2004, 03:32 PM
Also on whistles....

Wasn't there a whistle or two in the stands, which coincided closely to our end of the first half fumble?

If I EVER caught anyone doing that, from either team.... The whistle would travel to unfriendly places.

I know in college ball the refs are encouraged to error on the OTHER side (well, Big 10), because a replay can overturn a missed whsitle.

*shrugs*

Something for them to work on.

chuckm
12-19-2004, 04:55 PM
Anybody else here watching the GB-Jax game and wondering why the $%$% Hochuli decided to wait to blow the whistle THIS week??????

HJam72
12-19-2004, 05:00 PM
I saw that play and I'm so glad they did not blow it. He was turning his elbow and just about to throw when he got hit. The first time I saw the replay, I thought it was forward motion, but, after seeing it several more times, I could see that it really was a fumble. That's why you don't blow whistles when you're not sure the play's over. Of course, this time, they got it right the first time. You gotta feel bad for that guy that picked up the ball and stood there with it, only to get a fumble, but he should've known they hadn't stopped the play yet.

Dhedluk
12-19-2004, 05:00 PM
Maybe thats what they mean by "mind-numbing cold"
If there could be an opposite to the "12 man" it would have to be this years refs

Mistril48
12-19-2004, 07:55 PM
Same play ... ball out ... a Sharper recovers and Hochuli makes the same call "Hey, whatever is best for the league's stars!"

In Favre's case, let's call it a touchdown!

In Mannings case, let's give Peyton another chance!

When will be receive equal treatment?