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TexanBacker93
05-27-2008, 05:27 PM
I'm not sure if anyone else has seen this, but I find it quite interesting. It may just have been a slow news day, but still.



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3413244

CloakNNNdagger
05-27-2008, 06:01 PM
I'm not sure if anyone else has seen this, but I find it quite interesting. It may just have been a slow news day, but still.



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3413244

He proved that to himself when he handled scrutiny that came his way when pictures of him drinking shirtless at a party showed up on the Internet.

He's learned a most valuable lesson now.............when he drinks now, he'll keep his shirt on.:shots:

Tedc
05-27-2008, 08:46 PM
He's learned a most valuable lesson now.............when he drinks now, he'll keep his shirt on.:shots:

I wonder if he will come out during his career.

edo783
05-27-2008, 09:08 PM
I wonder if he will come out during his career.

It would seem that he sort of has. Hasn't made any sort of speach or anything, but it is looking a lot like a duck.

adam
05-27-2008, 11:02 PM
I wonder if he will come out during his career.

Come on guys. There is nothing gay about being a crybaby who likes to emote and drink tequila shirtless with other shirtless men. It's not gay! LEAVE HIM ALONE!!!!

GP
05-28-2008, 12:00 AM
I didn't catch the part about the party being a "special" sort of party. I found a photo and can only say that I'm understanding why he chose UT now.

Wowzer. I mean...uh, well....you see, it's...uh...wow. Um...okey-dokey. :headhurts:

Cue the old rugged street cop who says "There's nothing to see here...move along everybody. Keep moving. OK, let's go. Keep moving."

GP
05-30-2008, 10:34 AM
Now he's saying "I never thought about quitting."

Thank you, Mr. McNair, for not even wasting the time to seriously consider picking VY. I know a lot of VY fans wondered why we announced so early that VY was not on our radar, and I think we're seeing why. Seems he's got issues in a lot of areas, especially with trying to play the semantics game with his revisionist history to make himself look better.

VY and Bush are both in the espn.com headlines, and it ain't flattering news.

Double Barrel
05-30-2008, 10:55 AM
Anyone feel like VY could have a Ryan Leaf "leave me alone" meltdown any day now?

But hey, if a guy wants to prance around bare chested at a private sausage party and question his own dedication to pro football after just one year, then far be it from me to try to stop him from doing so.

hobie
05-30-2008, 11:03 AM
Anyone feel like VY could have a Ryan Leaf "leave me alone" meltdown any day now?

But hey, if a guy wants to prance around bare chested at a private sausage party and question his own dedication to pro football after just one year, then far be it from me to try to stop him from doing so.

Speaking from experience are ya??

Double Barrel
05-30-2008, 11:33 AM
Speaking from experience are ya??

I just live vicariously through you and Vince Young, man. My pastor said that was o.k. when we pray for you to change your wicked ways.

Blazing Arrow
05-30-2008, 11:58 AM
Wow Collins is actually starting to look good. idonno:

hobie
05-30-2008, 12:00 PM
Wow Collins is actually starting to look good. idonno:

Hmm, did Vince Young say that at the sausage party??

Honoring Earl 34
05-30-2008, 12:04 PM
Hmm, did Vince Young say that at the sausage party??

I'm sure it was after the Patron .

Wolf
05-30-2008, 12:16 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3418636


Young was installed as the Titans starter in Week 4 of his rookie season and led Tennessee to an 8-8 record. The Titans barely missed making the playoffs, but Young was named to the Pro Bowl.

On Thursday, he said NFL.com's report was "blown out of proportion." He said he has a clear head and is eager to begin his third NFL season.

"Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I ain't never said I was going to quit football," Young told The Tennessean. "There was a lot of stuff going on in my life, but football is not hard to me. Football is easy. All you have to do is be coachable and use your God-given talent. If it was a thought at all it was just a passing thought for a second.''

Last season, the Titans did make it to the playoffs, but Young threw all nine of the team's touchdown passes for the fewest of any team in the league. Nonetheless, he learned to live with the pressure of being an NFL quarterback.

He proved that to himself when he handled scrutiny that came his way when pictures of him drinking shirtless at a party showed up on the Internet.

"I have a stronger circle," Young said in his interview with NFL.com. "Now I can handle this kind of stuff without it making me want to give up football."


I hope he doesn't think it is easy at least in his development stage, or the bar wasn't set too high

Specnatz
05-30-2008, 12:28 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3418636


I hope he doesn't think it is easy at least in his development stage, or the bar wasn't set too high

I was going to quote that because so far the only thing he has made look easy is throwing INts.

adam
05-30-2008, 12:55 PM
"Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I ain't never said I was going to quit football," Young told The Tennessean. "There was a lot of stuff going on in my life, but football is not hard to me. Football is easy."

Yes, Vince, it's quite easy for someone who has played football for the majority of their years to play as poorly as you have. Now, go out and throw more TDs than INTs and come back and tell everyone how easy football is.

Double Barrel
05-30-2008, 01:18 PM
The Tennessee Titans 2006 Rookie of the Year told NFL.com in an interview posted on Monday that he considered retirement after his first season.

"I really thought long and hard about it," Young told the Web site. "There was so much going on with my family. It was crazy being an NFL quarterback. It wasn't fun anymore. All of the fun was out of it. All of the excitement was gone. All I was doing was worrying about things.

VS.

"Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I ain't never said I was going to quit football," Young told The Tennessean. "There was a lot of stuff going on in my life, but football is not hard to me. Football is easy. All you have to do is be coachable and use your God-given talent. If it was a thought at all it was just a passing thought for a second.''

Which is it, Mr. NFL?

Say what you mean and mean what you say. It's a fairly simple concept, and one that is required of leaders. Now he doesn't like the scrutiny of the media and being held accountable by fans, so he backtracks and denies the story.

Interesting that his teammate directly contradicts what he's now saying about never saying he thought about quitting:

Keith Bulluck (http://www.nfl.com/news/story;jsessionid=482E1F3E1402F4BDD1F3ED07728E8FB8? id=09000d5d808782d6&template=with-video&confirm=true): "Whatever pressures were going on in his life at that time last summer, he was feeling big stress. He was talking about quitting football and though it might have been for the time, for the moment, it was real.

I have never faulted him for doubting his dedication to pro football after one season, but he doesn't have to lie to make friends.

HOU-TEX
05-30-2008, 01:34 PM
Wow Collins is actually starting to look good. idonno:

To be honest, he'd give your team the best chance of winning without having to count on the running game and the defense every game.

Wolf
05-30-2008, 01:55 PM
http://forums.titansonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36447
tomb about VY not quitting

Hilarious quote by Zephyr about VY

5th post
If he could demolish NFL defenses like he does the English language our offense would be unstoppable.


lol: :spit:

Specnatz
05-30-2008, 02:28 PM
Geez, I just figured it out. JohsonFan and VY are the same person. :lion:

Blazing Arrow
05-30-2008, 03:34 PM
To be honest, he'd give your team the best chance of winning without having to count on the running game and the defense every game.

I was joking. Tom Collins should not step on the field. I would rather have Volek.

HOU-TEX
05-30-2008, 03:40 PM
I was joking. Tom Collins should not step on the field. I would rather have Volek.

Well, they're both better than what y'all have now as a starter.

Specnatz
05-30-2008, 03:50 PM
I was joking. Tom Collins should not step on the field. I would rather have Volek.

Volek has one thing VY does not have yet ..............













































A playoff victory to his credit.

Lucky
05-30-2008, 04:23 PM
Anyone feel like VY could have a Ryan Leaf "leave me alone" meltdown any day now?
I think football is probably Young's "happy place", where he goes to escape the rest of his life. Young is probably going through sudden wealth syndrome, where family and friends are coming out of the woodwork for $money and attention. Yeah I know, it's a problem a lot of us would like to face. But it can be a problem, nonetheless. Especially, for a kid who was sheltered for 4 years by Mack Brown.

Double Barrel
05-30-2008, 04:27 PM
I think football is probably Young's "happy place", where he goes to escape the rest of his life. Young is probably going through sudden wealth syndrome, where family and friends are coming out of the woodwork for $money and attention. Yeah I know, it's a problem a lot of us would like to face. But it can be a problem, nonetheless. Especially, for a kid who was sheltered for 4 years by Mack Brown.

Good point, man. Going from nothing to everything is probably somewhat of a culture shock.

GP
05-30-2008, 04:45 PM
I think football is probably Young's "happy place", where he goes to escape the rest of his life. Young is probably going through sudden wealth syndrome, where family and friends are coming out of the woodwork for $money and attention. Yeah I know, it's a problem a lot of us would like to face. But it can be a problem, nonetheless. Especially, for a kid who was sheltered for 4 years by Mack Brown.

When VY said "I was going through some stuff..." I have to think he's speaking of a certain inner battle/conflict that has surfaced in the media recently.

And...you really have to wonder if winning the BCS was such a huge accomplishment, such a rush, that maybe VY feels he's already reached the pinnacle of his own hopes and dreams? As in: Everything else is just a bonus at this stage. I wonder "what if" he didn't the BCS title game? Would he have that flaming desire to carry over into the NFL to win an NFL championship?

Suddenly, VY does not look like the poster boy he had been made out to be. He was framed as the hero, the bullet-proof messiah who would haunt the Texans forever. And now? Now he seems to be struggling just for a reason to play football.

He needs to get some of that David Carr "football is fuuuuuuunnnnn" therapy. The sort of therapy that pays you millions of dollars for looking good when it doesn't count.

Blazing Arrow
05-30-2008, 11:58 PM
Volek has one thing VY does not have yet ..............


A playoff victory to his credit.

I am suprised you even know what that word means ...

adam
05-31-2008, 12:51 AM
I was joking. Tom Collins should not step on the field. I would rather have Volek.

I agree. Tom Collins has no place on the field.

http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/Catherine-Jones/Tom-Collins-Print-C10127494.jpeg

ubecool454
05-31-2008, 02:27 AM
I think football is probably Young's "happy place", where he goes to escape the rest of his life. Young is probably going through sudden wealth syndrome, where family and friends are coming out of the woodwork for $money and attention. Yeah I know, it's a problem a lot of us would like to face. But it can be a problem, nonetheless. Especially, for a kid who was sheltered for 4 years by Mack Brown.

Exactly what I was thinking. I'm really glad the Texans didn't take Vince because of all the family and friends that would think he is the Red Cross or the Welfare dept. I like watching Vince play but on two days out of the year he is the enemy. I just hope all the hate on this board for vince is only because he is a Titan.

Tedc
05-31-2008, 06:55 AM
I just hope all the hate on this board for vince is only because he is a Titan.

No. Some people hate him because he was a Longhorn. Some people hate him because he is a drunk. Some people hate him because he is a closet homosexual. Some people hate him becuase after signing a guaranteed contract and having a rough first year, he contemplated quitting on his team because it was too hard and he is stupid enough to tell the media (still not sure what he believed he was going to gain from that).

TexanBacker93
05-31-2008, 08:40 AM
I think football is probably Young's "happy place", where he goes to escape the rest of his life. Young is probably going through sudden wealth syndrome, where family and friends are coming out of the woodwork for $money and attention. Yeah I know, it's a problem a lot of us would like to face. But it can be a problem, nonetheless. Especially, for a kid who was sheltered for 4 years by Mack Brown.

That is a great point. A good friend of mine is a big time Longhorn. He has season tickets, goes to every game, roots for Longhorns in the pros, goes to a lot of Texans games with me, and didn't want Vince on the team. Nothing to do with abilities or intellect or anything football related. He thought that it would be too much dealing with every person he's ever known and then a lot more that would be hounding him, hanging onto him, and generally making his transition worse. I think he is right. Football would cease to be an escape for him because the city would expect him to take it on his shoulders and lead it to multiple Super Bowl victories. I realize that's the goal, but one man can't do it alone.

Specnatz
05-31-2008, 09:48 AM
I am suprised you even know what that word means ...

Did I hurt your feelings? So much for those thtat say, he just wins.

I am sure those pics of VY got you all hot and bothered didn't it? You say he is your type a guy, now we all know what ya ment.

Honoring Earl 34
05-31-2008, 10:04 AM
Did I hurt your feelings? So much for those thtat say, he just wins.

I am sure those pics of VY got you all hot and bothered didn't it? You say he is your type a guy, now we all know what ya ment.

Once the Texans make the playoffs , it's gonna be ... well we went to a Super Bowl .

Once we go to a Super Bowl ... we'll never hear from them again . Oh by the way they went to a Super Bowl with our old team .

BattleRedToro
05-31-2008, 10:12 AM
I just hope all the hate on this board for vince is only because he is a Titan.

And, some people don't believe he is as good as advertised, and are called haters for voicing that belief.

I have no reason to actually hate Vince Young, but I have never thought he was going to be a great QB. I voiced that from the beginning, and have constantly been called a hater for it.

Double Barrel
05-31-2008, 11:33 AM
I just hope all the hate on this board for vince is only because he is a Titan.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts, with extra fuel added to the fire because of all the undeserved hype around the dude. It is the constant drone of UT fans and local media that builds up resentment among Houston Texans fanatics.

Well, that and his little display of "this is my house" at Reliant. That was just bush league and unbecoming, and pretty much a chump attitude, IMHO.

Of course, who knew that he'd be ready to quit pro football just a month or so later? At lea$t we now know the rea$on$ he'$ $till playing (and it's not the 'heart of a champion' thing).

edo783
05-31-2008, 01:00 PM
Too much pressure for VY??

You think that may be what he was getting ride of at the sausage party?:smiliedance:

The Dream
05-31-2008, 03:20 PM
I think football is probably Young's "happy place", where he goes to escape the rest of his life. Young is probably going through sudden wealth syndrome, where family and friends are coming out of the woodwork for $money and attention. Yeah I know, it's a problem a lot of us would like to face. But it can be a problem, nonetheless. Especially, for a kid who was sheltered for 4 years by Mack Brown.

exactly....people are taking quotes and running with them.......I repeat the hatred for VY is strong on this board, and I'll never understand why..............So far VY has the Texans record 3 to 0................hate on...........

*dream is reminded that he needs to buy his annual titans/texans ticket, and wear his VY jersey once again*

Brando
05-31-2008, 03:25 PM
exactly....people are taking quotes and running with them.......I repeat the hatred for VY is strong on this board, and I'll never understand why..............So far VY has the Texans record 3 to 0................hate on...........

*dream is reminded that he needs to buy his annual titans/texans ticket, and wear his VY jersey once again*


He plays for the Titans, our division rival. Add to the fact that Texans fans got the VY hype shoved down our throats to no end when we drafted Mario. Then you have the VY supporters that protect him like they are his family. Simple stuff.

Double Barrel
05-31-2008, 03:26 PM
exactly....people are taking quotes and running with them.......

Honestly, Dream, there is not a lot of running required. Take his words at face value:

"It was crazy being an NFL quarterback. It wasn't fun anymore. All of the fun was out of it. All of the excitement was gone."

We've heard these words somewhere before... :thinking:

The Dream
05-31-2008, 04:05 PM
We've heard these words somewhere before

I just don't think it's that big of a deal. He was a rookie who was thrown into a starters position along with all the fame, money, spotlight, pressure, etc. He was honest about his feelings and said that he's become a stronger person since that point.......


He plays for the Titans, our division rival. Add to the fact that Texans fans got the VY hype shoved down our throats to no end when we drafted Mario. Then you have the VY supporters that protect him like they are his family. Simple stuff.

but this is all stuff Vince can't control. Dude begged to come to Houston and to this day still does a lot of good things for his hometown.....I understand not rooting for him, because he's a rival, but there is "strong" hatred on this board like the guy sexually mollested every member's mother, lol........

Brando
05-31-2008, 04:22 PM
I understand not rooting for him, because he's a rival, but there is "strong" hatred on this board like the guy sexually mollested every member's mother, lol........

I think our mothers are safe as you can tell in the bar scene. :wild: I personally don't "hate" the guy but more so the people that hype him up more than he is worth. He's not a polished QB by any stretch of the imagination.

The Dream
05-31-2008, 04:51 PM
honestly who "hypes" him as being a "polished" QB? ESPN says that he wins game, but that he still has problems with INT, reading defenses, etc. It's not like people treat him as if he doesn't have any flaws.........Even VY fans and supporters (myself, Mike Ditka, etc.) can admit to his flaws.....And he's a young QB who has about 24 games under his belt...it makes perfect sense for him to struggle somewhat......

Brando
05-31-2008, 05:00 PM
honestly who "hypes" him as being a "polished" QB? ESPN says that he wins game, but that he still has problems with INT, reading defenses, etc. It's not like people treat him as if he doesn't have any flaws.........Even VY fans and supporters (myself, Mike Ditka, etc.) can admit to his flaws.....And he's a young QB who has about 24 games under his belt...it makes perfect sense for him to struggle somewhat......


First thing that's wrong is you listen to ESPN:joker: He does not win games. The Titans won games last year despite Vince Young. Albert Haynesworth and the Titans defense were the reason the Titans won and made the playoffs. The defense bailed him out so many times last year. Your right about the inexperience though. Most QB's take 3-4 years to develop. I'll still be rooting against him because he is a Titan and plays for the enemy.

The Dream
05-31-2008, 05:02 PM
so the titans improving as a team had nothing to do with VY? No one is saying he deserves all the credit, but defenses respect his ability to run and that does have an impact on the game............

Specnatz
05-31-2008, 06:07 PM
I just don't think it's that big of a deal. He was a rookie who was thrown into a starters position along with all the fame, money, spotlight, pressure, etc. He was honest about his feelings and said that he's become a stronger person since that point.......

but this is all stuff Vince can't control. Dude begged to come to Houston and to this day still does a lot of good things for his hometown.....I understand not rooting for him, because he's a rival, but there is "strong" hatred on this board like the guy sexually mollested every member's mother, lol........

I do not care that he wanted to come here, and as far as him doing things in Houston, well he should he lives here, big deal so do a lot of other athletes.

Manning and Aikman were both thrust into the same situation. Manning even had more pressure being the son of Legend. You never heard of them thinking of quitting after one seaon. Why because they have a backbone and what all Champions have, heart!

Hell Mario had way more pressure on him than VY ever thought of having and he had a disappointing rookie year. What did he do? He busted his ass and worked harder to get better for his second year, and he did. While princess vy thought about quitting. Yeah what a leader.

b0ng
05-31-2008, 06:17 PM
so the titans improving as a team had nothing to do with VY? No one is saying he deserves all the credit, but defenses respect his ability to run and that does have an impact on the game............

Yeah, I'd say that the Titans improving their defense to the point that it was like in the top 3 had nothing to do with Vince Young. He definitely did not put up better numbers than his rookie year. He really didn't make a bunch of really super clutch plays last year either.

Vince Young looked like he regressed last year, from his rookie campaign. I think it's quite easy for a lot of people to say that VY did not improve his team and it not be blind hatred for him.

Also, I'm glad you wear your Titans jersey Young jersey at the Titans/Texans games. I imagine a lot of the VY supporters that call in to the radio stations wouldn't be man enough to do that.

GuerillaBlack
05-31-2008, 06:57 PM
I don't hate Vince Young. He still gets cheered on when he goes to Rockets games, but when football season starts, VY and the Titans are enemy number one.

Wolf
05-31-2008, 07:18 PM
First thing that's wrong is you listen to ESPN:joker: He does not win games. The Titans won games last year despite Vince Young. Albert Haynesworth and the Titans defense were the reason the Titans won and made the playoffs. The defense bailed him out so many times last year. Your right about the inexperience though. Most QB's take 3-4 years to develop. I'll still be rooting against him because he is a Titan and plays for the enemy.

I think this will do

Brando
http://www.pubhousedialogues.com/media/blogs/curmudgeon/obi-wan-mind-trick.jpg

BigTimeTexanFan
05-31-2008, 08:07 PM
I'm a little surprised that Titans fans aren't more upset about this whole thing. I think if I was a Titans fan, after hearing that he wanted to quit after his first year and then followed it up with the season he had last year, I would have been ticked. If you're considering quitting, you certainly aren't putting forth the effort to get better and it showed last season. I'm just a little surprised this isn't a bigger issue with Titans fans. Most seem to be putting a positive spin on it like, "but he didn't quit and that shows leadership".

ATXtexanfan
06-01-2008, 01:56 AM
VY was a great college qb and that's it, i hope he get's comfortable in the afc south basement

hobie
06-01-2008, 07:54 AM
By reading alot of these posts, seems like alot of you think he is worse than what the Texans had to endure for it's first several years...Stats are one thing, but he did get them in the playoffs his first season. I'm not a VY supporter or anything, but just because he has said and done stupid things in his short time in the league, he still brings excitement to the game...

Grams
06-01-2008, 08:29 AM
I'm a little surprised that Titans fans aren't more upset about this whole thing. I think if I was a Titans fan, after hearing that he wanted to quit after his first year and then followed it up with the season he had last year, I would have been ticked. If you're considering quitting, you certainly aren't putting forth the effort to get better and it showed last season. I'm just a little surprised this isn't a bigger issue with Titans fans. Most seem to be putting a positive spin on it like, "but he didn't quit and that shows leadership".


You have to have some level of intelligence to be upset.

Remember you are talking about Titan's fans.

HJam72
06-01-2008, 08:46 AM
I do respect the fact that he wanted to play for Houston; but, then, it was also wanting to be the #1 pick.

I kind of see him as someone who had lots of talent and wanted to be on the good side, but just didn't quite have what the good side was looking for, so now he's on the wrong side. Kind of like Darth Vader. :)

BigTimeTexanFan
06-01-2008, 09:53 AM
By reading alot of these posts, seems like alot of you think he is worse than what the Texans had to endure for it's first several years...Stats are one thing, but he did get them in the playoffs his first season. I'm not a VY supporter or anything, but just because he has said and done stupid things in his short time in the league, he still brings excitement to the game...

The first several year of the Texans were terrible, but not just because of David Carr. We didn't have the defense, the running game, or the offensive line the Titans have. I'm not saying VY is worse than Carr, but if he keeps on his path that could change. DC may not have developed like we planned, but he never complained and he certainly never talked about quitting. The Texans were terrible for many reasons, not just QB play.

Specnatz
06-01-2008, 10:39 AM
By reading alot of these posts, seems like alot of you think he is worse than what the Texans had to endure for it's first several years...Stats are one thing, but he did get them in the playoffs his first season. I'm not a VY supporter or anything, but just because he has said and done stupid things in his short time in the league, he still brings excitement to the game...

I still love this clip ... It says how a feel so sit back turn your speakers up and enjoy. Oh and and it is not about thinking he is worse than anything it is mostly about how I feel about those that love, want to ride or sniff his jock. You have to admit there is a disturbing love affair going on with some of these VY supporters. Sorta the same with YKW.

http://www.sportsradio610.com/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=540022

adam
06-01-2008, 11:27 AM
By reading alot of these posts, seems like alot of you think he is worse than what the Texans had to endure for it's first several years...Stats are one thing, but he did get them in the playoffs his first season. I'm not a VY supporter or anything, but just because he has said and done stupid things in his short time in the league, he still brings excitement to the game...

Yet, only once in his career(his rookie season) did Carr put up numbers that rivaled Young's numbers last year in sub-mediocrity. Vince Young DOES NOT win games. The Titans win games, the Titans defense and top 10 running game wins games. Vince Young is essentially filler, and bad filler at that.

Call me what you will, but if I had my choice between Carr and Young...I'd still take Carr.

The Dream
06-01-2008, 12:14 PM
Manning and Aikman were both thrust into the same situation. Manning even had more pressure being the son of Legend. You never heard of them thinking of quitting after one seaon. Why because they have a backbone and what all Champions have, heart!

Hell Mario had way more pressure on him than VY ever thought of having and he had a disappointing rookie year. What did he do? He busted his ass and worked harder to get better for his second year, and he did. While princess vy thought about quitting. Yeah what a leader.

so now VY has "No heart"?????........

Call me what you will, but I had my choice between Carr and Young...I'd still take Carr

welcome to the board charlie casserly!

Specnatz
06-01-2008, 12:48 PM
so now VY has "No heart"?????........



If you contemplate quitting after one season, YES!

The Dream
06-01-2008, 12:57 PM
the thing is you'll fail to recognize that he brought up "personal" issues here.........he was a fairly good rookie, almost lead his team to the playoffs, hated it when they didn't make the playoffs, won rookie of the year, went to the probowl, etc. so it wasn't like the NFL game totally "blew" him away.....that does not equate to not having "heart" imo........nobody knows what kind of issues he was talking about off the field in his personal life..........you guys are flat out haters for no reason.............

Brando
06-01-2008, 01:02 PM
so now VY has "No heart"?????........






Well he does have a heart, just not a heart of a champion.:shades: Sure he has his College Championship but it's what he does in the NFL that matters when it comes to discussing his Pro career.


"Winners never quit and quitters never win." - Vince Lombardi


If I'm a Titans fan I would be upset at hearing that he contemplated retirement after his rookie year to only regress his second year.


Waiting for the hater come back. This is a Texans board and if we want to discuss a flaw about someone that is a rival it is our prerogative.

The Dream
06-01-2008, 01:04 PM
well

a.) he never quit
b.) he never quit


and


c.) he never quit



it's okay VY will make sure to show u his heart when he goes 5-0 against our beloved Texans this season.............hate on, hate on, hate on.............

Brando
06-01-2008, 01:09 PM
well

a.) he never quit
b.) he never quit


and


c.) he never quit



it's okay VY will make sure to show u his heart when he goes 5-0 against your beloved Texans this season.............hate on, hate on, hate on.............

Fixed it for you, it's our Texans so go root for your Cowboys and Packers then go party with Vince.

Texans_Chick
06-01-2008, 01:43 PM
it's okay VY will make sure to show u his heart when he goes 5-0 against our beloved Texans this season.............hate on, hate on, hate on.............

I think it is axiomatic that you can't be a Texan fan if you look forward to getting tickets to the Texans-Titans game just so that you can wear your Vince Young Titans jersey.

Division rivals and all.

You don't have to hate Vince Young if you are a Texan fan, but I do think that some Texans fans get sick of Vince Young fans who defend Young no matter what he does or says.

Personally, I think the best case scenario for Texan fans who like Vince Young is to hope he is the Barry Sanders of his sport. To be a very good player on a team that goes nowhere. Right now, he is an inexperienced player on a team that has been thriving despite his well documented deficiencies.

Even if you are a Young fan from Houston, you have to admit that a Young-Texans match would have been awful:

1. Young's skill sets do not match what Kubiak wants to do with his offense.

2. If Young feels like he has had a ton of pressure playing in Nashville of all places, a small market where the owner loves him more than anything and is willing to fire coaches to make him succeed, do you really believe he would have had less pressure playing in his home town?

Really, I understand why you believe some of the criticism of Young is a little out of hand, but if you want to find a VY lovefest, a Texans MB is probably not the best place to find it. And with some of the statements you make about how you want to rock your Vince Young jersey, it makes people loathe Young more. Not because of who he is, but because of the disgust of Vince Young fanboyism.

That Young has become not a player like many other players with strengths and weaknesses. But rather a symbol of annoyance from people who can't let the past be the past, and realize that Young to the Texans would have been a dreadful idea.

The Texans are a team that is all about team first, and not being all about one player. It's not a team that is all about canning their coaches to find the right one to let Vince be Vince.

adam
06-01-2008, 01:57 PM
welcome to the board charlie casserly!

I'm anything but a Carr sympathizer by any stretch of the imagination, but fair is fair. In terms of passing, Carr put up much better numbers with the Texans than Young is putting up now with the Titans. That's not saying much for Carr, but it certainly a lot about Vince "Best QB EVER!!!" Young. The two are actually quite similar. Both have reached their peak as a passer, neither is having fun any more, neither have their head in the game, etc. It's only a matter of time before Vince throws on a pair of white gloves.

The Dream
06-01-2008, 02:06 PM
You don't have to hate Vince Young if you are a Texan fan, but I do think that some Texans fans get sick of Vince Young fans who defend Young no matter what he does or says.

Really, I understand why you believe some of the criticism of Young is a little out of hand, but if you want to find a VY lovefest, a Texans MB is probably not the best place to find it. And with some of the statements you make about how you want to rock your Vince Young jersey, it makes people loathe Young more. Not because of who he is, but because of the disgust of Vince Young fanboyism.

That Young has become not a player like many other players with strengths and weaknesses. But rather a symbol of annoyance from people who can't let the past be the past, and realize that Young to the Texans would have been a dreadful idea.

The Texans are a team that is all about team first, and not being all about one player. It's not a team that is all about canning their coaches to find the right one to let Vince be Vince.




I just find it funny that most of this board HATES the guy yet year around the top thread in the NFL forum is usually about Vince Young, lol. I've said this many times before....no one makes outlandish comments about VY on this board (including myself). I'm critical of the guy, but most of the threads started up are just silly things like "Look what VY did while he was on the sideline" or "Look at VY did at this party", etc. A lot of these threads really have "no" substance in them and are mostly just, because Texans fans have sour grapes that they don't have Vince Young. I rarely even comment in threads like these yet they turn out to be a 100 pages long, lol. Me wearing a VY jersey to the game only upsets people because of the strong hatred they already have for a guy who they don't even know......the hatred would be strong even if I didn't wear a jersey. In the end it makes a lot of die hard texans fans look like a group of jealous people who can't look at things objectively.............


I'm anything but a Carr sympathizer by any stretch of the imagination, but fair is fair. In terms of passing, Carr put up much better numbers with the Texans than Young is putting up now with the Titans. That's not saying much for Carr, but it certainly a lot about Vince "Best QB EVER!!!" Young. The two are actually quite similar. Both have reached their peak as a passer, neither is having fun any more, neither have their head in the game, etc. It's only a matter of time before Vince throws on a pair of white gloves.

VY = 1 1/2 years as a QB

Carr = numerous years as a QB

VY = winner, Carr = loser

VY > Carr

thank you.

Honoring Earl 34
06-01-2008, 02:10 PM
The hatred for VY is because of all the crap the Texans took for the Mario pick . VY had a good rookie year but Mario was clearly the better player last year so the Texans fans rag on Vince because right now ... he's not so hot .

The VY threads pale compare to the David Carr threads so don't protect poor little Vince to much .

BigTimeTexanFan
06-01-2008, 02:12 PM
Dream, I think you will find that anytime a division rival's player, especially their starting QB is in the news there will be a thread about it. Your just seeing more because recently VY has been in the news more. I can assure you it's not because we are jealous that we don't have him.

Honoring Earl 34
06-01-2008, 02:14 PM
VY = 1 1/2 years as a QB

Carr = numerous years as a QB

VY = winner, Carr = loser

VY > Carr

thank you.


Wow ... that's like climbing a sandpile .

The Dream
06-01-2008, 02:16 PM
The hatred for VY is because of all the crap the Texans took for the Mario pick . VY had a good rookie year but Mario was clearly the better player last year so the Texans fans rag on Vince because right now ... he's not so hot .

The VY threads pale compare to the David Carr threads so don't protect poor little Vince to much .

Texans fans ragged on him in his rookie season also, lol.....and I don't "protect" anyone, because in actuality I avoid these threads for the most part.

Dream, I think you will find that anytime a division rival's player, especially their starting QB is in the news there will be a thread about it. Your just seeing more because recently VY has been in the news more. I can assure you it's not because we are jealous that we don't have him.

Even when he's not in the news it seems as if there's some thread going on about him, which makes this hatred a lil lame and excessive imo.............

Brando
06-01-2008, 02:20 PM
because Texans fans have sour grapes that they don't have Vince Young.

You just don't get it. We are happy with having Mario. We're happy not having VY. Like TC said, Texans fans get sick of Vince Young fans who defend Young no matter what he does or says.

I rarely even comment in threads like these yet they turn out to be a 100 pages long, lol
Because VY supporters and Titans trolls like to add fuel to the fire.

Me wearing a VY jersey to the game only upsets people because of the strong hatred they already have for a guy who they don't even know......
True we don't know much about him but we do know he plays for the Titans(a rival), we know he is not very smart, he likes to party with shirtless mens,contemplated retirement after his rookie year, and he has countless nut huggers defending him.

BigTimeTexanFan
06-01-2008, 02:21 PM
Even when he's not in the news it seems as if there's some thread going on about him, which makes this hatred a lil lame and excessive imo.............

It's called the off season and VY is in the news right now ala sausage party, wanting to quit then acting confused why there was a story about him wanting to quit.

Brando
06-01-2008, 02:21 PM
Wow ... that's like climbing a sandpile .


lol:spit:

Honoring Earl 34
06-01-2008, 02:22 PM
Texans fans ragged on him in his rookie season also, lol.....and I don't "protect" anyone, because in actuality I avoid these threads for the most part.


Rest assured that if VY were well on his way of redefining the QB position ... all you would be reading is how dumb we were to take Mario . There would be defecting Texans fans going to the Titans .

Right now he's not that good and the diehard Texan fans are having a good time at VY and Bud Adams expense . Don't forget for a second that this was Bud's attempt to stick Houston .

The Dream
06-01-2008, 02:26 PM
You just don't get it. We are happy with having Mario. We're happy not having VY. Like TC said,

if everyone is happy with mario then you'd think you spend more time adoring him, than hating another man who doesn't even play for your team

Because VY supporters and Titans trolls like to add fuel to the fire.

I for one hardly come in these threads, I know Blazing Arrow comes to the board, but most threads and comments on VY are done by hating Texans fans who haven't been provoked by anyone....which brings me back to the point that in reality most of you must not be happy with the pick.

Brando
06-01-2008, 02:33 PM
if everyone is happy with mario then you'd think you spend more time adoring him, than hating another man who doesn't even play for your team



I for one hardly come in these threads, I know Blazing Arrow comes to the board, but most threads and comments on VY are done by hating Texans fans who haven't been provoked by anyone....which brings me back to the point that in reality most of you must not be happy with the pick.

But your right in the middle of this thread and neg repped me in the VY is the best QB in the NFL thread as a "bigot".

Mario Williams > Vince Young. Does that show my adoration for the pick? Thank You.

BigTimeTexanFan
06-01-2008, 02:35 PM
if everyone is happy with mario then you'd think you spend more time adoring him, than hating another man who doesn't even play for your team



I for one hardly come in these threads, I know Blazing Arrow comes to the board, but most threads and comments on VY are done by hating Texans fans who haven't been provoked by anyone....which brings me back to the point that in reality most of you must not be happy with the pick.
Yep, you got us. Do you think we can mange to pry VY out of Tenn. if we package Mario and two 1st rounders? Give me a break. Most of these threads continue because we find it amusing to read the goofy comments posted by VY supporters. It's just entertainment bro.

The Dream
06-01-2008, 02:39 PM
speaking of mario does anyone have the stats on what games he got his sacks in??? A lot of Mario's sacks last year appeared to be him "being in the right place at the right time", I watched him very closely and there was never a moment where he totally overpowered a guy or blew past him with a great move........which is why I still wasn't convinced after last season.

BigTimeTexanFan
06-01-2008, 02:42 PM
Mario had 14 1/2 sacks last year, he must have been doing something right. The last half of the season he blossomed.

The Dream
06-01-2008, 02:47 PM
Mario had 14 1/2 sacks last year, he must have been doing something right. The last half of the season he blossomed.

I know his numbers, and I also know he blew the first half of the season last year. I'm actually trying to find youtubes of all of his sacks last season, because a lot of them weren't what I'd call "impressive" plays, which is why it wouldn't surprise me to see that sack total drop this season..........

EDIT

Okay now everyone "claims" to be in love with mario so can someone get me the stats on who he actually recorded those sacks against????

Brando
06-01-2008, 02:51 PM
speaking of mario does anyone have the stats on what games he got his sacks in??? A lot of Mario's sacks last year appeared to be him "being in the right place at the right time", I watched him very closely and there was never a moment where he totally overpowered a guy or blew past him with a great move........which is why I still wasn't convinced after last season.


hate on, hate on :rolleyes:

He had 14 sacks last year. 3 came in his beastly performance against the Broncos. Being a good defensive end is being in the right place at the right time. You can't over pursue the play.

Vince threw 9 TD's to 17 Int's, I guess the DB's were in the right place at the right time.

Vince's performance is why I am still not convinced after last season he can be a good passer.

Brando
06-01-2008, 02:58 PM
I've got to go but back to the topic of this thread. You have to question if his heart is truly into playing professional football. I'm thinking he peaked in college and he will amount to being Trent Dilfer that can run in the NFL.

The Dream
06-01-2008, 03:00 PM
never mind I found them


http://www.nfl.com/players/mariowilliams/gamelogs?id=WIL431243

so

2 of them came against a pathetic chiefs team

then there was a 3 week gap before he touched a QB and he got 1 against a pathetic Dolphins team

2 weeks pass then he gets 1 against the chargers

he gets 1 against the Aints and 1 against the Browns

he gets 2.5 against the titans

one against the bucs in a game where they played their backups

3.5 against Denver, which really weren't all that impressive imo

1 against the Colts in a meaningless game



There's a reason why dude didn't make the probowl despite his stats. When looking beyond the stats in terms of consistency, how he got them, who he got them against, etc. I'd say that a lot of people on this board overrated dude's season last year...........and in no way am I convinced that this guy was worth the #1 pick.

The Dream
06-01-2008, 03:08 PM
He had 14 sacks last year. 3 came in his beastly performance against the Broncos.


those sacks were anything but "beastly", lol....you have a distorted memory...


I'm just not convinced that those sacks are anything to be excited about, and you can't compare a guy who is fortunate enough to be in the right place at the right time to a guy who is learning the most difficult position in professional sports and coming to the conclusion that the texans did indeed make the right pick.........especially when that QB had a good rookie season, has crap to work with offensively (how many dropped passes were there???), and showed signs of greatness in some games last season.

Brando
06-01-2008, 03:10 PM
I know his numbers, and I also know he blew the first half of the season last year. I'm actually trying to find youtubes of all of his sacks last season, because a lot of them weren't what I'd call "impressive" plays, which is why it wouldn't surprise me to see that sack total drop this season..........

EDIT

Okay now everyone "claims" to be in love with mario so can someone get me the stats on who he actually recorded those sacks against????

We don't love Mario like you do Vince if you know what I mean but here are his sack totals.....

KC - he had 2 sacks for a loss of 13 yards and a fumble recovery for a TD.
Mia - 1 sack for an 8 yard loss
SD - 1 sack for a 2 yard loss that was a pathetic loss by the whole team including Turk and the long snapper

He only got stronger from that point on........
NO -1 sack for a 10 yard loss that caused a fumble.
CLE - 1 sack for a 4 yard loss, I'll be fair say it was a blown assignment by the OL
TEN - 2.5 sacks for 17 total yards loss against your man
TAM - 1 sack for a 13 yard loss
DEN - 3.5 sacks for a 14 yard loss
IND - 1 sack for a 2 yard loss

The Dream
06-01-2008, 03:12 PM
^^^i beat you to it............

Brando
06-01-2008, 03:15 PM
those sacks were anything but "beastly", lol....you have a distorted memory...


I'm just not convinced that those sacks are anything to be excited about, and you can't compare a guy who is fortunate enough to be in the right place at the right time to a guy who is learning the most difficult position in professional sports and coming to the conclusion that the texans did indeed make the right pick.........especially when that QB had a good rookie season, has crap to work with offensively (how many dropped passes were there???), and showed signs of greatness in some games last season.

I didn't say they were beastly, comprehension is key here man, I said beastly performance, he was a beast in that game. Here we go again with the excuses for VY. Have you ever thought that if Mario has a few more pieces around him that would help him as well?

The Dream
06-01-2008, 03:17 PM
I didn't say they were beastly, comprehension is key here man, I said beastly performance, he was a beast in that game. Here we go again with the excuses for VY. Have you ever thought that if Mario has a few more pieces around him that would help him as well?


"pieces" are why his stats are inflated, lol. "One on one" the guy is a joke...I'm sorry, but I've yet to see a moment where Mario totally dominated a guard or tackle on the line......#1 picks are "beastly" like you stated, and quite frankly I see nothing "beastly" about the guys sacks for the most part.

Brando
06-01-2008, 03:25 PM
"pieces" are why his stats are inflated, lol. "One on one" the guy is a joke...I'm sorry, but I've yet to see a moment where Mario totally dominated a guard or tackle on the line......#1 picks are "beastly" like you stated, and quite frankly I see nothing "beastly" about the guys sacks for the most part.


VY wasn't drafted #1 because he isn't smart enough to run a pro offense.........


I gotta go but keep defending your man, maybe you will be in a bar with him one day.:spit:

The Dream
06-01-2008, 03:36 PM
VY wasn't drafted #1 because he isn't smart enough to run a pro offense.........

nice how u avoided my points on mario........probably because everyone knows I'm right about dude..........

ReliantTexan
06-01-2008, 04:10 PM
"pieces" are why his stats are inflated, lol. "One on one" the guy is a joke...I'm sorry, but I've yet to see a moment where Mario totally dominated a guard or tackle on the line......#1 picks are "beastly" like you stated, and quite frankly I see nothing "beastly" about the guys sacks for the most part.Oh yeah, Mario has really benefited by playing next to sacking machines, Travis Johnson and Anthony Weaver lol.

The Dream
06-01-2008, 04:14 PM
Oh yeah, Mario has really benefited by playing next to sacking machines, Travis Johnson and Anthony Weaver lol.

a lot of his sacks are a result of the the QB falling down and mario landing on top of them or QB running right into the hands of Williams, because of pressure from other spots on the line.......like I said earlier "one on one" the guy is a below avg. lineman, who happens to be in the right place at the right time in order to pick up sacks in bunches.......

Honoring Earl 34
06-01-2008, 04:16 PM
nice how u avoided my points on mario........probably because everyone knows I'm right about dude..........

The NFL ulumni Assoc. voted Mario Williams as the NFL Defensive Linemen of the year 2007 .

I'm thinking they might know sumpin .

http://fantasybaseball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=NFL&id=3636

Honoring Earl 34
06-01-2008, 04:21 PM
Come on Dream ... beat that one .... come out to plaaaayyyyy .

ReliantTexan
06-01-2008, 04:25 PM
a lot of his sacks are a result of the the QB falling down and mario landing on top of them or QB running right into the hands of Williams, because of pressure from other spots on the line.......like I said earlier "one on one" the guy is a below avg. lineman, who happens to be in the right place at the right time in order to pick up sacks in bunches.......At the first part of the season this was the case, but as the year went on he was really coming along. There were several sacks where he just made great plays on the QB, and the guy is only going into his third season. He's going to have better technique. Combine that with his athleticism and he'll be pretty unstoppable.

NitroGSXR
06-01-2008, 04:28 PM
a lot of his sacks are a result of the the QB falling down and mario landing on top of them or QB running right into the hands of Williams, because of pressure from other spots on the line.......like I said earlier "one on one" the guy is a below avg. lineman, who happens to be in the right place at the right time in order to pick up sacks in bunches.......
Just like how Mario Williams was ranked 8th in the AFC in tackles and 10th in solos among defensive linemen. Only one person had a better combination of tackles and sacks than Mario Williams and that was Jared Allen. See... players just kept falling down and Mario sure was lucky enough to tackle them and put up 14 sacks on top of all of that.

He sure is the luckiest sumbitch out there, I'll tell you that.

:rolleyes:

Lucky
06-01-2008, 04:33 PM
a lot of his sacks are a result of the the QB falling down and mario landing on top of them or QB running right into the hands of Williams...
Like this "gift" sack by Mario on Vince. :confused:

http://assets.houstontexans.com/uploads/photo/player/5519.jpg

I understand the need to defend your favorite player, but your argument that Mario gets sacks because of the pressure put on by the rest of the defensive front is ridiculous. Mario collected a higher % of his team's sacks (45%) than any other player in the league. Don't hate on Mario just because your guy is taking a little heat.

Note to gwallaia: 74 and rising. :)

The Dream
06-01-2008, 04:34 PM
The NFL ulumni Assoc. voted Mario Williams as the NFL Defensive Linemen of the year 2007 .

I'm thinking they might know sumpin .

yeah what they saw off the stat line, lol......no way in hell is Mario the best defensive lineman in the NFL....

TheRealJoker
06-01-2008, 04:36 PM
Funny how a VY fan is trying to claim someone else as lucky.

If the Tacks didn't have the defense/special teams they do VY would be ridiculed as bad or worse than Alex Smith right now with the 49ers.

The Dream
06-01-2008, 04:36 PM
Like this "gift" sack by Mario on Vince.

I like this one better......


http://youtube.com/watch?v=9acRrOEleC8&feature=related

The Dream
06-01-2008, 04:40 PM
but your argument that Mario gets sacks because of the pressure put on by the rest of the defensive front is ridiculous

not really...........dude just happens to be in the right place at the right time, rarely does he ever "Make it happen" with his own pure talent...........which is why I see everyone running away from the facts I'm bringing up about his lack of moves on the line.....he's too weak to outpower someone, and he doesn't have the techniques nor the speed to blow past offensive linemen on a regular basis.......

texasguy346
06-01-2008, 04:41 PM
yeah what they saw off the stat line, lol......no way in hell is Mario the best defensive lineman in the NFL....

Mario is certainly much closer to being the best defensive lineman in the NFL than VY is to being the best QB in the NFL.

ReliantTexan
06-01-2008, 04:42 PM
I like this one better......


http://youtube.com/watch?v=9acRrOEleC8&feature=related That was some holding that tackle did. Take a look and you'll see what I mean.

The Dream
06-01-2008, 04:44 PM
Mario is certainly much closer to being the best defensive lineman in the NFL than VY is to being the best QB in the NFL.

you really can't compare the 2 positions, because of the points I made earlier. And besides that Mario isn't on the radar for being one of the best linemen...how can you be one of the best linemen when you aren't that great in "one on one" situations...............answer: you can't be.

TheRealJoker
06-01-2008, 04:47 PM
you really can't compare the 2 positions, because of the points I made earlier. And besides that Mario isn't on the radar for being one of the best linemen...how can you be one of the best linemen when you aren't that great in "one on one" situations...............answer: you can't be.

He's not on a VY homer's radar. Since you obviously cant evaluate qbs (See your VY manlove) it would make sense you couldn't evaluate NFL DLs either. Former players who have played his position seem to disagree with you, the spin doctor for the VY hype machine.

I bet you hold his shirt while he's off clubbing in Montrose when he's in town.

ReliantTexan
06-01-2008, 04:47 PM
not really...........dude just happens to be in the right place at the right time, rarely does he ever "Make it happen" with his own pure talent...........which is why I see everyone running away from the facts I'm bringing up about his lack of moves on the line.....he's too weak to outpower someone, and he doesn't have the techniques nor the speed to blow past offensive linemen on a regular basis.......OMG, dude just stop now please. Mario doesn't have the strength to overpower O-lineman? What? I remember in his rookie year him throwing a tight-end knocking over a RB in the processs. And he ran a 4.6 forty at the combine, there aren't many DE's who can run that, much less 300 lb ones.

texasguy346
06-01-2008, 04:52 PM
you really can't compare the 2 positions, because of the points I made earlier. And besides that Mario isn't on the radar for being one of the best linemen...how can you be one of the best linemen when you aren't that great in "one on one" situations...............answer: you can't be.


Have you ever watched a Texans game? Does the opener against KC ring a bell? One of Mario's sacks came against a triple team. That doesn't happen often in the NFL. Of course that's not a "one on one" situation, that's a "one on three" situation. Any idea how great players tend to fair in those situations?

The Dream
06-01-2008, 04:54 PM
OMG, dude just stop now please. Mario doesn't have the strength to overpower O-lineman? What? I remember in his rookie year him throwing a tight-end knocking over a RB in the processs.

and I also have vivid memories of offensive linemen pushing him around, which many of you even commented on and complained about (I can find quotes if you want me to...).........let's not have selective memory.


And he ran a 4.6 forty at the combine, there aren't may DE's who can run that, much less 300 lb ones.

*dream claps hands* being fast with nothing in front of you is totally different from being able to blow past your man on the line.



Real talk, Mario just hasn't shown me much with his actual "skills" which is why I don't see how people can run around acting as if they "know" this guy was indeed the right decision. Looking at his career he's had about 2 great performances against the Chiefs and the Broncos.......that's right "2" performances in 2 seasons........why some of you are so quick to jump on the bandwagon is mindboggling.

Have you ever watched a Texans game? Does the opener against KC ring a bell? One of Mario's sacks came against a triple team. That doesn't happen often in the NFL. Of course that's not a "one on one" situation, that's a "one on three" situation. Any idea how great players tend to fair in those situations?

chiefs = pathetic.....and I can think of many more times where 1 guy has busted his ass on the line...................come again.

TheRealJoker
06-01-2008, 04:55 PM
Real talk, Vince just hasn't shown me much with his actual "skills" which is why I don't see how people can run around acting as if they "know" this guy was indeed the right decision.

The Dream
06-01-2008, 04:58 PM
Real talk, Vince just hasn't shown me much with his actual "skills" which is why I don't see how people can run around acting as if they "know" this guy was indeed the right decision.

he's shown more than Mario when looking at their careers thus far, and his position is the hardest to master.............

texasguy346
06-01-2008, 05:01 PM
chiefs = pathetic.....and I can think of many more times where 1 guy has busted his ass on the line...................come again.

Ignorance is bliss I guess. Sure, players, coaches, & former players have no idea what they're talking about.

Goes to prove that when it comes to VY threads Dream is nothing more than a troll. Silly me to think that might change.

ReliantTexan
06-01-2008, 05:01 PM
he's shown more than Mario when looking at their careers thus far, and his position is the hardest to master.............By his TD/INT ratio. By his obvious inability to run any offense besides the spread, what? What has he shown other than he can be carried by his team?

TheRealJoker
06-01-2008, 05:03 PM
By his TD/INT ratio. By his obvious inability to run any offense besides the spread, what? What has he shown other than he can be carried by his team?

He's shown the ability to rely on the defense/special teams to win games in spite of him.

The Dream
06-01-2008, 05:03 PM
anyways time will tell.................I would like to make a sig bet with the board.........I bet you guys that Mario's sack numbers will decrease, Vince's Numbers will increase across the board, and overall VY will have a better 2008/2009 campaign than Mario...........................

Lucky
06-01-2008, 05:05 PM
not really...........dude just happens to be in the right place at the right time, rarely does he ever "Make it happen" with his own pure talent...........which is why I see everyone running away from the facts I'm bringing up about his lack of moves on the line.....he's too weak to outpower someone, and he doesn't have the techniques nor the speed to blow past offensive linemen on a regular basis.......
You're bringing something. But none of it is factual.

ReliantTexan
06-01-2008, 05:05 PM
and I also have vivid memories of offensive linemen pushing him around, which many of you even commented on and complained about (I can find quotes if you want me to...).........let's not have selective memory.



*dream claps hands* being fast with nothing in front of you is totally different from being able to blow past your man on the line.



Real talk, Mario just hasn't shown me much with his actual "skills" which is why I don't see how people can run around acting as if they "know" this guy was indeed the right decision. Looking at his career he's had about 2 great performances against the Chiefs and the Broncos.......that's right "2" performances in 2 seasons........why some of you are so quick to jump on the bandwagon is mindboggling.



chiefs = pathetic.....and I can think of many more times where 1 guy has busted his ass on the line...................come again.Umm, in case you didn't know this happens to about every lineman in the league. Especially inexperienced ones. He can't dominate every play. But more times than not he does. Which is why he was third in the NFL in sacks.

The Dream
06-01-2008, 05:07 PM
By his TD/INT ratio. By his obvious inability to run any offense besides the spread, what? What has he shown other than he can be carried by his team?

I'm guessing we're failing to see how his team suddenly improved when he entered the lineup. I'm guessing we failed to see the clutch moments he had in his rookie season............I guess we can't recognize that his receivers suck ass, and that his completion percentage did improve last year.......What do we have from Mario...........*GASPS* 2 good games against 2 bad teams...........

Umm, in case you didn't know this happens to about every lineman in the league. He can't dominate every play. But more times than not he does. Which is why he was third in the NFL in sacks.

I don't expect him to dominate every play, but I've seen little improvement as far as one on one situations are concerned.......

But none of it is factual.


it's funny, because many of "you" even have complained about Mario's lack of explosiveness on the line....like I said I can go find old threads if you'd like me to...........this isn't just Dream making something up.

Brando
06-01-2008, 05:09 PM
Funny how a VY fan is trying to claim someone else as lucky.
If the Tacks didn't have the defense/special teams they do VY would be ridiculed as bad or worse than Alex Smith right now with the 49ers.

No kidding just like Vince's rookie year when they had the comeback. Vince was lucky that the defensive lineman gave up on the play or Vince would have been sacked and the comeback would not have happened. It easy to have selective memory. :rolleyes:

TheRealJoker
06-01-2008, 05:10 PM
I

I don't expect him to dominate every play, but I've seen little improvement as far as one on one situations are concerned.......




I would venture to guess its hard for you to see much of anything with your head buried so far up Vincent's rectum.

b0ng
06-01-2008, 05:11 PM
Texans fans ragged on him in his rookie season also, lol.....and I don't "protect" anyone, because in actuality I avoid these threads for the most part.

Wrong. You live in these threads and keep them going with outlandish trolling. But good job.

Texans_Chick
06-01-2008, 05:17 PM
Mario is certainly much closer to being the best defensive lineman in the NFL than VY is to being the best QB in the NFL.

I think this is a fair statement. Of course, quarterback has more of a learning curve, but still.

The think what is remarkable to me about Mario's sacks is the following:

1. How little help he had from the rest of the line--i.e. the percentage of Texans sacks that were his.

2. That he is certainly not getting coverage sacks given the state of the secondary.

3. So often last year, Williams wasn't in good position to get a ton of sacks. Sacks are easier to get when the other team is playing from behind and has to throw the ball to catch up. The Texans offense had a number of early turnover games, so those are games where it is not going to be easy to force the other team into being one dimensional.

Clearly, if Williams stays healthy and the rest of the defense improves, you could see some beastly sack numbers from him. Imagine if the secondary was even adequate instead of horrid for example.

The same goes to some degree with Young. His team has paid attention to the line and the running game, but his receivers are lacking. They may end up having difficulties acquiring free agent receivers if they feel that working with a quarterback like Young is career death. Just as free agent receivers look to play for a QB like Brady, they be more reluctant to play with a quarterback that doesn't have a history of success throwing the ball downfield.

Dream, I know you love Vince, but you don't have to come up with silly things to say about Williams as some sort of retaliation towards affronts that you feel toward the player you like.

ReliantTexan
06-01-2008, 05:19 PM
I'm guessing we're failing to see how his team suddenly improved when he entered the lineup. I'm guessing we failed to see the clutch moments he had in his rookie season............I guess we can't recognize that his receivers suck ass, and that his completion percentage did improve last year.......What do we have from Mario...........*GASPS* 2 good games against 2 bad teams...........



I don't expect him to dominate every play, but I've seen little improvement as far as one on one situations are concerned.......



it's funny, because many of "you" even have complained about Mario's lack of explosiveness on the line....like I said I can go find old threads if you'd like me to...........this isn't just Dream making something up.The difference, Mario progressed while VY regressed. And you ever think that the reason they don't surround VY with weapons is because they know that he will never be an elite passer like Peyton Manning or Brady. Maybe they know that they're bread and butter is their defense and running game.

The Dream
06-01-2008, 05:21 PM
I would venture to guess its hard for you to see much of anything with your head buried so far up Vincent's rectum.

I find it interesting how u keep throwing out dry ass jokes about mens body parts????


And yet you still avoid the points that Mario has A LOT of improvement to do as a lineman when it comes to his technique........I was one of the first posters to come in and "laugh" at VY being the best QB in the NFL, and I was critical of him in the thread........funny how you can't be critical of Mario......maybe he needs to take his shirt off in order for you to follow him more closely.....

Wrong. You live in these threads and keep them going with outlandish trolling. But good job.

only for today....tomorrow you'll can go back with your "stanish" man love for VY by posting a topic about him every 30 seconds.

The difference, Mario progressed while VY regressed. And you ever think that the reason they don't surround VY with weapons is because they know that he will never be an elite passer like Peyton Manning or Brady. Maybe they know that they're bread and butter is their defense and running game.

VY's receiving core also got worse (and it was already bad to begin with)....I've always said that he won't be an "elite" passer, but that I do think he's going to be a great starter who can make amazing plays for years to come.

Texans_Chick
06-01-2008, 05:23 PM
anyways time will tell.................I would like to make a sig bet with the board.........I bet you guys that Mario's sack numbers will decrease, Vince's Numbers will increase across the board, and overall VY will have a better 2008/2009 campaign than Mario...........................


What sort of :hobie: bet is that?

Mario's statistical 2007 season = standing on top of a mountain
Vince's statistical 2007 season = standing on a steaming pile of dung

I would hope that Vince's stats next year would be better than a steaming pile of dung. Otherwise, he might quit for real.

I think this might have to be one of those agree to disagree topics.

TheRealJoker
06-01-2008, 05:27 PM
I think we all can agree that Mario needs to work on his technique. But seeing as he's already among the best at his position with the skillset he has I am ecstatic because that means his potential ceiling is very high.

Unlike a certain qb that you adore who's best football came and went in the NCAA.

Texans_Chick
06-01-2008, 05:27 PM
VY's receiving core also got worse (and it was already bad to begin with)....I've always said that he won't be an "elite" passer, but that I do think he's going to be a great starter who can make amazing plays for years to come.


That is what is fascinating and infuriating about "off-schedule" quarterbacks. They can make some amazing plays that no one else can, but the question that remains unanswered is whether you can get enough consistency and build a team around one individual's talent. If they get hurt or decide to up and quit on you or get thrown into the pen for dog fighting, your team is screwed.

I've always rejected the Vick-Young comparison as quarterbacks, but they are similar in that the NFL didn't know what to do with their skill sets, and there is no role model of Super Bowl success with their unique talents.

The Dream
06-01-2008, 05:33 PM
Dream, I know you love Vince, but you don't have to come up with silly things to say about Williams as some sort of retaliation towards affronts that you feel toward the player you like.

they aren't silly, lol.....many of you have said "The same things".....

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9dImtYvSUKc

^^^above is a youtube of highlights from Mario's best game as a Texan against Denver

one sack comes as a result of nobody blocking him (the running back fell down), one sack came "after" another texan player hit the QB, and as Cutler was getting ready to go into a fetal position Mario proceeds to fall on top of him, and one is another result in which cutler ran basically ran "into" him......................the point is in his "best" game there weren't any signs of Mario just bullying or blowing past his man.....which is why his sack numbers are inflated.


Sacks are easier to get when the other team is playing from behind and has to throw the ball to catch up

I'm glad you brought this up, because

http://www.nfl.com/players/mariowilliams/situationalstats?id=WIL431243

9 of his sacks came when the texans were ahead........

ReliantTexan
06-01-2008, 06:19 PM
they aren't silly, lol.....many of you have said "The same things".....

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9dImtYvSUKc

^^^above is a youtube of highlights from Mario's best game as a Texan against Denver

one sack comes as a result of nobody blocking him (the running back fell down), one sack came "after" another texan player hit the QB, and as Cutler was getting ready to go into a fetal position Mario proceeds to fall on top of him, and one is another result in which cutler ran basically ran "into" him......................the point is in his "best" game there weren't any signs of Mario just bullying or blowing past his man.....which is why his sack numbers are inflated.




I'm glad you brought this up, because

http://www.nfl.com/players/mariowilliams/situationalstats?id=WIL431243

9 of his sacks came when the texans were ahead........I don't see where Cutler lays in the fetal position and Mario just falls on him. And the running back didn't fall down lol, he was trying to cut block him,(it was intentional) and Mario had to leap over him, and look at the change of direction Mario made to get to Cutler on that play.

And the sack where you say Cutler just ran into him, Mario had to bring him down with one arm, that is by no means a gimme sack.

Honoring Earl 34
06-01-2008, 06:23 PM
I don't see where Cutler lays in the fetal position and Mario just falls on him. And the running back didn't fall down lol, he was trying to cut block him,(it was intentional) and Mario had to leap over him, and look at the change of direction Mario made to get to Cutler on that play. And the sack where you say Cutler just ran into him, Mario had to bring down him with one arm, that is by no means a gimme sack.

Mario made Lepsis retire .

Vince got Chow fired .

ReliantTexan
06-01-2008, 06:30 PM
Vince got Chow fired .Can't nobody tell me nothing lol.

GP
06-01-2008, 06:45 PM
We're getting away from the main topic here:

Vince cried and said he thought about QUITTING.

Mario did nothing but IMPROVE and show that he's "in it to win it."

You don't see articles about how Mario sulked and buried himself in self-pity. I mean, seriously...Vince Young had trouble finding a way to stick around in the NFL? He's been boosted and hyped by EVERY MAJOR MEDIA OUTLET in existence. He has a golden ticket and won't even present it at the ticket booth? Wow. All he has to do is be alive and breathing, and he's a hero. He makes a few athletic plays and he's "the messiah" as we saw with Vick all those years. Two words: Golden ticket.

BTW, The Dream, how do you have so many posts here when it's clear that you are not a Texans fan? Going THIS far to defend a player on our most-hated rival (Titans) at the expense of trashing OUR most heralded player is definitely un-cool. Go to the Titans board and hang out there. You're not going to convert anybody here. It's a waste of everyone's time.

Texans_Chick
06-01-2008, 09:10 PM
I'm glad you brought this up, because

http://www.nfl.com/players/mariowilliams/situationalstats?id=WIL431243

9 of his sacks came when the texans were ahead........

Er, most player's sacks come when their team is ahead. If the other team just runs the ball because they are ahead, sacks can't happen.

I believe you are missing the point.

If he gets near the top of the league sacks with a joke of a secondary, shoulder surgery/old try hard guy playing on the other side of the line, and so often the Texans are playing from behind because the offense is giving away the ball, just imagine the machine he will be once the Texans get the pieces and parts together.

Honoring Earl 34
06-01-2008, 09:12 PM
Er, most player's sacks come when their team is ahead. If the other team just runs the ball because they are ahead, sacks can't happen.

I believe you are missing the point.


Well ... Vince does'nt have a completion when they run it either .

TexansLucky13
06-01-2008, 09:22 PM
Well ... Vince does'nt have a completion when they run it either .

He doesn't have a completion when they pass it, either.

:tease:

I can't take Dream seriously anymore.

Honoring Earl 34
06-01-2008, 09:26 PM
He doesn't have a completion when they pass it, either.

:tease:

I can't take Dream seriously anymore.

Yep ... I think he just likes to stir the pot like SWT .

When VY became a Titan ... I stopped rooting for him. When they extended Carr's contract , we all knew that Vince was'nt going to be a Texan ... well most people anyway .

TexansLucky13
06-01-2008, 09:30 PM
Yep ... I think he just likes to stir the pot like SWT .

When VY became a Titan ... I stopped rooting for him. When they extended Carr's contract , we all knew that Vince was'nt going to be a Texan ... well most people anyway .

You know, it doesn't bother me that some Texans fans support him despite being a member of the Tacks. He was a hometown hero and he brought a Championship to the state.

What bothers me is when a guy goes out of his way to apologize for VY and dog Mario at the same time. Anyone who knows lickity split about football realizes how much Mario adds to this team, and how well he has done.

travfrancis
06-01-2008, 09:30 PM
Dream you're taking the wrong approach to this. If VY becomes the Super Bowl winning QB we both think he's capable of it's not going to matter at all how good or bad Mario is, the pick will have been a mistake. Since obviously in hindsight you would take a great hometown QB that is a major asset on a Super Bowl winning team over even one of the great DE's of all-time. So my advice to you is to quit wasting your time trying to convince Texans fans that Mario is overrated, if you believe in Vince's abilities it won't matter how good Mario is.

Now a lot of people don't believe in Vince's abilities, and I don't doubt anyone in here for a second that they aren't truly satisfied right now that the Texans drafted Mario over Vince. This is still only year two though, and I'd also like to point out an interesting little factoid... I think most people here would agree that the two most knowledgeable fans on this message board are Vinny and AJ. Neither are Longhorn homers and both of them were in favor of the Texans drafting Vince Young. I'm not really sure how this is significant or that it proves anything it just kind of makes you go "hmmm...".


BTW... I had to do a double take after reading that post above me. First time I've seen a civil response from TexansLucky13 on this matter. That really was a pretty impressive post, maybe TexansLucky13 is really feeling confident about how this Mario/VY thing is panning out because he doesn't sound insecure at all in that post. TexansLucky13 either no longer views VY as even a threat or has really matured since the last time I was on this message board, or it was just a fluke post.

TexansLucky13
06-01-2008, 09:35 PM
Now a lot of people don't believe in Vince's abilities, and I don't doubt anyone in here for a second that they aren't truly satisfied right now that the Texans drafted Mario over Vince. This is still only year two though, and I'd also like to point out an interesting little factoid... I think most people here would agree that the two most knowledgeable fans on this message board are Vinny and AJ. Neither are Longhorn homers and both of them were in favor of the Texans drafting Vince Young. I'm not really sure how this is significant or that it proves anything it just kind of makes you go "hmmm...".

Vinny has followed VY since his high school days and he recognizes what Vince has to offer. He has that X factor.... the ability to "just win" no matter what it takes.

The problem is that many people were not convinced that he could succeed at the pro level. He has an odd throwing style, sub-par accuracy and a tendency to scramble too easily. Right now, Vince needs to focus more on team activities and less on the media and his previous lifestyle.

I think Vince can succeed but he has to work his tail off to do so. So far, VY has not shown the commitment that can make him into a star. Many people saw this before the draft as a concern.

TexansLucky13
06-01-2008, 09:39 PM
BTW... I had to do a double take after reading that post above me. First time I've seen a civil response from TexansLucky13 on this matter. That really was a pretty impressive post, maybe TexansLucky13 is really feeling confident about how this Mario/VY thing is panning out because he doesn't sound insecure at all in that post. TexansLucky13 either no longer views VY as even a threat or has really matured since the last time I was on this message board, or it was just a fluke post.

I've done of a lot of growing up. I realized (with the help of Vinny, Cak, DB and others) that I did not have a positive image. I am attempting to remedy that from the ground up.

It's difficult, but I have shrugged most of my bias in many areas. I am a work in progress, but I think I see an improvement.

travfrancis
06-01-2008, 09:47 PM
I think Vince can succeed but he has to work his tail off to do so. So far, VY has not shown the commitment that can make him into a star. Many people saw this before the draft as a concern.

I don't think commitment was ever in question before the draft or now in the NFL. Why would anyone question VY's commitment prior to the draft? If anything he has been praised for getting together with his WR's outside of practices to get in extra work, and has set really high standards for himself (he has said his goal is to be a hall of fame QB).

The only two instances I've ever heard of calling VY's commitment into question have come from this offseason. People have criticized him for being in Texas during the offseason going to school and hanging out around the Houston and Austin areas. It's also been well documented by Fisher and Heimerdinger that he's been spending more time in Nashville than people think and that they are very happy with the work he's put in this offseason so that seems like a non factor. The other instance would obviously be this fluff article written on VY and the whole quitting thing which can be argued to death, but I question the intelligence of anyone who actually believes he would quit football or is not taking it seriously and just playing now for paychecks. He shouldn't have said what he did to the media, nothing good could have came from it, but it's hardly proof that he has "no heart".


I've done of a lot of growing up. I realized (with the help of Vinny, Cak, DB and others) that I did not have a positive image. I am attempting to remedy that from the ground up.

It's difficult, but I have shrugged most of my bias in many areas. I am a work in progress, but I think I see an improvement.

That's really impressive man, I now have a completely different view of you as a poster here.

TexansLucky13
06-01-2008, 09:54 PM
I don't think commitment was ever in question before the draft or now in the NFL. Why would anyone question VY's commitment prior to the draft? If anything he has been praised for getting together with his WR's outside of practices to get in extra work.

The only two instances I've ever heard of calling VY's commitment into question have come from this offseason. People have criticized him for being in Texas during the offseason going to school and hanging out around the Houston and Austin areas. It's also been well documented by Fisher and Hermeindinger that he's been spending more time in Nashville than people think and that they are very happy with the work he's put in this offseason so that seems like a non factor. The other instance would obviously be this fluff article written on VY and the whole quitting thing which can be argued to death, but I question the intelligence of anyone who actually believes he would quit football or is not taking it seriously and just playing now for paychecks. He shouldn't have said what he did to the media, nothing good could have came from it, but it's hardly proof that he has "no heart".

I'm not saying he doesn't have a heart. It is obvious that he loves football.

Many people present the "big head" argument... the idea that ego would play a negative role in both his off-field and on-field performance. I think people have already written about it in this thread.

The point is, we didn't know how he would react to the pro atmosphere. Being a QB in the NFL is a whole new ballgame compared to college.

My number one criticism of him has always been his accuracy. If he works on that he could develop into a great QB.

Honoring Earl 34
06-01-2008, 09:56 PM
What bothers me is when a guy goes out of his way to apologize for VY and dog Mario at the same time. Anyone who knows lickity split about football realizes how much Mario adds to this team, and how well he has done.


The game the Titans won 38-35 last year , you had all these Titan fans with #10 jerseys running their mouths and he did'nt even play ... I guess he's that good .

The NFL will figure you out pretty quick so Vince's next move will tell all .

Wolf
06-01-2008, 10:00 PM
I like Vince I hope he succeeds in the NFL.. but like TL13... one has to question his dedication on this offseason.. great you went to try to get your degree but timing was way off ...not a stellar season and now new offensive coordinator ..one can do what they want.. From what has come out.. I just wonder if Vince is too laid back ...high school and college... his athletic ability was second to none.. well it evens out in the NFL.. due to better scheming and/or athletic ability across the board.. He may be working his tail off this offseason but I haven't seen anything about it in the news or on TOMB when I have scanned their site to get insight(maybe I missed it)

At this point Dream reminds me of me on my defense of Carr ...you can pull stats out from where ever to make an argument..

Vince needs work.. throwing stats out

value per play..(dvoa)31st in league which isn't good rating for someone that can run the ball
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb.php
l
The other statistic given is DVOA, or Defense-adjusted Value Over Average. This number represents value, per play, over an average QB in the same game situations. The more positive the DVOA rating, the better the player's performance. DVOA (and its cousin, VOA, which isn't adjusted based on opponent) is further explained here.

The simple version: DPAR means a quarterback with more total value. DVOA means a quarterback with more value per play.

Specnatz
06-02-2008, 12:12 AM
Dream you're taking the wrong approach to this. If VY becomes the Super Bowl winning QB we both think he's capable of it's not going to matter at all how good or bad Mario is, the pick will have been a mistake. Since obviously in hindsight you would take a great hometown QB that is a major asset on a Super Bowl winning team over even one of the great DE's of all-time. So my advice to you is to quit wasting your time trying to convince Texans fans that Mario is overrated, if you believe in Vince's abilities it won't matter how good Mario is.

Now a lot of people don't believe in Vince's abilities, and I don't doubt anyone in here for a second that they aren't truly satisfied right now that the Texans drafted Mario over Vince. This is still only year two though, and I'd also like to point out an interesting little factoid... I think most people here would agree that the two most knowledgeable fans on this message board are Vinny and AJ. Neither are Longhorn homers and both of them were in favor of the Texans drafting Vince Young. I'm not really sure how this is significant or that it proves anything it just kind of makes you go "hmmm...".


BTW... I had to do a double take after reading that post above me. First time I've seen a civil response from TexansLucky13 on this matter. That really was a pretty impressive post, maybe TexansLucky13 is really feeling confident about how this Mario/VY thing is panning out because he doesn't sound insecure at all in that post. TexansLucky13 either no longer views VY as even a threat or has really matured since the last time I was on this message board, or it was just a fluke post.

First thing, so what if TexanLucky is not pleasing to a bunch of vy :hobie: lovers? Don't like it, go to the titans board and take your shirts off and have your own love fest regarding vy.

With dream and now your propoganda, one would have to wonder if your not hitting the http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o195/Specnatz/Drugs-Crackpipe.gif

You did get one thing right if vy becomes a SB winning qb. If a frog had wings he would not bump his ass when he hops, they both have about the same chances of happening at this point. How about hoping for him to throw more TD than INT first, ya know baby steps for your prise winning RB?

I do love the whole Mario is overrated comment though, since after two years and improving each year he is now considered overrated. Of course vy did not improve both years so would that not make him the overrated one after his rookie of the year campaign? I do love the whole probowl hype he gets considering he was the 4th or 3rd alternet to that position. So what a bunch of very good QBs did not want to go or were injured and they had to take at least some sorta warm body. Mario was the second alternate, yet he did not go. Why? Because the DE that were selected went because they felt it was an honor, where QBs rutinely do not. So instead of saying he was a probowler should we not say he was (I will give you 3rd alternate) the 3rd alternate that got to go?

I think you have missed most of the post that said they believe in VY abilities to throw INT, it is a skill he has mastered after all. The whole this is only year two crap is a load of BS. It is not the same sewage you were spewing after year one, what has changed? Oh sorry I know what has changed VY regressed and he really really sucked last year so now is the time to take a wait and see approach versus before they even took a snap in the NFL. This is where your whole hindsight is 20/20 approach should be focused.

As far as the two most knowledgeable people on this board, that I do not know. What I do find funny is you only recongnized folks who at the time supported VY. While I will agree that those two have a lot of knowledge they are fans and can take a side based on being a fan just like the rest of us. One of the few people I will say who seems to be impartial is TC, whom you failed to acknowledge. Why is that? Ahhh does not go into your draft vy analysis? What makes me go hmm is that two vy suck ups post on the Texans board and are shocked that people will have a differance of opinion. :mcnugget:

GP
06-02-2008, 12:28 AM
One of the best things a person can do is to separate their love of the college game from their love of the pro game (and I'm talking about fans more than I am about a player). Being so attached to a college team is going to make you biased toward the pro game.

Vince Young won an NCAA championship. That's it. It's time for VY/Longhorn fans to move f-o-r-w-a-r-d. You need to leave it at the doorstep. If you had zero collegiate bias, you'd easily say that Mario has turned out to be the better choice made by the Texans.

If VY felt pressure in Tennessee...how much pressure would he face in his hometown of Houston "IF" he struggled to produce? He ought to be thankful that he's far away from Texas, if you want to know the truth. Otherwise, there'd be 10 o'clock news footage of the police talking VY off a ledge somewhere. VY is not Texans material. Never was. Never will be.

Just seems to me, in all fairness here, that VY is suffering a huge letdown from the time he won the bowl game. I don't think he can ever reproduce that same effort, that same performance, and that same euphoria. I am far from being a UT fan...but that particular game was as good as NCAA football gets. And I think VY feels like he's a little fish in a big pond right now.

Out of the big three (Mario, Bush, VY) I think we obtained the best player for what our team needed the most: A defensive player who is able to make plays up-and-down the line, as well as pressure the QB of oppsoing teams. Why can't it just stop there? Why is there this urge to have a peeing contest on something that is impossible to re-live or go back in time and play "what if" we had drafted VY or Bush?

Let me add this: VY being drafted by the Titans was more of a Bud Adams strategy of playing a villain toward his former Oliers hometown than it was a strategy of choosing the best player for his team. And VY was, IMO, a very willing accomplice in this crime. The plan was hatched from the moment the Texans announced that they would NOT select VY. From that moment forward, the whole marketing strategy by Bud, VY, and VY's agent was to play up the dissed hometown hero. Now that it's wearing off a little, I think y ou see a guy (VY) who is struggling to find his motivation. Revenge only gets you so far.

GP
06-02-2008, 12:39 AM
...As far as the two most knowledgeable people on this board, that I do not know. What I do find funny is you only recongnized folks who at the time supported VY. While I will agree that those two have a lot of knowledge they are fans and can take a side based on being a fan just like the rest of us. One of the few people I will say who seems to be impartial is TC, whom you failed to acknowledge. Why is that? Ahhh does not go into your draft vy analysis? What makes me go hmm is that two vy suck ups post on the Texans board and are shocked that people will have a differance of opinion. :mcnugget:

"Must spread rep around before giving it to Spectnatz again"

Nailed it.

travfrancis
06-02-2008, 02:24 AM
First thing, so what if TexanLucky is not pleasing to a bunch of vy :hobie: lovers? Don't like it, go to the titans board and take your shirts off and have your own love fest regarding vy.

I complimented TexanLucky13 and he even admitted his old approach was a bad one. So I'm not sure how this outburst was warranted. This is where I first started to question your reading comprehension skills.

I do love the whole Mario is overrated comment though, since after two years and improving each year he is now considered overrated. Of course vy did not improve both years so would that not make him the overrated one after his rookie of the year campaign?

What Mario overrated comment are you referring to? I would love for you to go back through any post I've made on this message board and find a case of me calling Mario overrated.

I do love the whole probowl hype he gets considering he was the 4th or 3rd alternet to that position. So what a bunch of very good QBs did not want to go or were injured and they had to take at least some sorta warm body. Mario was the second alternate, yet he did not go. Why? Because the DE that were selected went because they felt it was an honor, where QBs rutinely do not. So instead of saying he was a probowler should we not say he was (I will give you 3rd alternate) the 3rd alternate that got to go?

Again, I never made any comment about VY going to the pro bowl. And the argument you're responding to is an argument I would never attempt to make. At this point I'm starting to wonder if this post is even in response to mine.

I think you have missed most of the post that said they believe in VY abilities to throw INT, it is a skill he has mastered after all. The whole this is only year two crap is a load of BS. It is not the same sewage you were spewing after year one, what has changed? Oh sorry I know what has changed VY regressed and he really really sucked last year so now is the time to take a wait and see approach versus before they even took a snap in the NFL. This is where your whole hindsight is 20/20 approach should be focused.

You don't even know what I'm saying in this thread how could you know what I was saying a year ago? For the record, I wasn't saying anything last year other than continuing to display my dissappointment that we chose not to draft VY. I have never claimed any of the events that have taken place over the last 2 years have done anything to prove I am right though.


As far as the two most knowledgeable people on this board, that I do not know. What I do find funny is you only recongnized folks who at the time supported VY. While I will agree that those two have a lot of knowledge they are fans and can take a side based on being a fan just like the rest of us. One of the few people I will say who seems to be impartial is TC, whom you failed to acknowledge. Why is that? Ahhh does not go into your draft vy analysis? What makes me go hmm is that two vy suck ups post on the Texans board and are shocked that people will have a differance of opinion. :mcnugget:

I'm not saying there weren't knowledgeable posters here who were against the Texans drafting Vince Young, and I realize that the overwhelming majority of people here did not think Vince was the right choice. I didn't just pick two posters at random, and my point was not to show what the message board thought about the situation or for me to prove anything. AJ and Vinny are two guys that have built up a lot of respect here. I consider them to be the two most knowledgeable posters here on this forum, and I think a lot of people would agree with me, seems pretty obvious. My comment was that I found it interesting that they felt we should draft VY even though they had no bias, and the majority of the message board and anyone else nation wide with an opinion for that matter felt otherwise. It's as simple as that, don't try to make it more complicated.

Texans_Chick
06-02-2008, 09:25 AM
You don't even know what I'm saying in this thread how could you know what I was saying a year ago? For the record, I wasn't saying anything last year other than continuing to display my dissappointment that we chose not to draft VY. I have never claimed any of the events that have taken place over the last 2 years have done anything to prove I am right though.


I'm not saying there weren't knowledgeable posters here who were against the Texans drafting Vince Young, and I realize that the overwhelming majority of people here did not think Vince was the right choice. I didn't just pick two posters at random, and my point was not to show what the message board thought about the situation or for me to prove anything. AJ and Vinny are two guys that have built up a lot of respect here. I consider them to be the two most knowledgeable posters here on this forum, and I think a lot of people would agree with me, seems pretty obvious. My comment was that I found it interesting that they felt we should draft VY even though they had no bias, and the majority of the message board and anyone else nation wide with an opinion for that matter felt otherwise. It's as simple as that, don't try to make it more complicated.

I think that once the Texans kept Carr, I don't think any rational person thought it made much salary cap sense to also use first pick money on Vince Young.

We will never have a way back machine. If VY fails to get a SB in Tennessee that doesn't mean he wouldn't have got one in Houston, or vice versa.

Personally, I can't think of a current situation that could be any better for Young:

1. An owner who loves him.
2. A coach who has a history of patience with unorthodox quarterback talent.
3. A coach and owner who are willing to fire a coach to find the best one to work with Young.
4. A team with a good defense and commitment to the run to take pressure off of him.
5. Playing for a small city team that pressure-wise is probably one of the easiest places to play in the league.

The Houston situation made heart sense but not head sense:

1. I think the biggest Young fan can recognize that Kubiak's offensive system does not mesh well with Young's skill sets. The Texans offense requires pinpoint passing accuracy and ability to read defenses and putting the ball where it wants to go.

Last season really let you see the system nature of the offense, and its potential. I have a hard time seeing that work with a let Vince be Vince thing.

2. Kubiak requires his quarterbacks to be mentally tough and be good leaders in club house. Pouting and thinking about quitting and needing your teammates to convince you not to quit wouldn't go over very well with him, no matter what was going on in Young's life.

3. The Texans defense in 2005 was Dunta Robinson and old and young and awful. Superman and Vince Young pajama's notwithstanding, the Texans switching to the 4-3 needed help on the line with a player intended for a 4-3, not just a bunch of tweeners. Young wouldn't have had a OROY season with the awful running backs the Texans had and the awful defense the Texans had.


Some times things just work out the way they are supposed to, I think. It is quite possible that both Mario and Vince have tremendous careers at their respective teams--because the fit works for each of them.

HOU-TEX
06-02-2008, 09:28 AM
I'm pissed I went back and read this thread.

Un...freaking....believable! :gun:

The Dream
06-02-2008, 09:58 AM
I don't see where Cutler lays in the fetal position and Mario just falls on him. And the running back didn't fall down lol, he was trying to cut block him,(it was intentional) and Mario had to leap over him, and look at the change of direction Mario made to get to Cutler on that play.

And the sack where you say Cutler just ran into him, Mario had to bring him down with one arm, that is by no means a gimme sack.

A.) Cutler was curling up before Mario even touched him.......watch it again, this time very slowly
B.) He was trying to block, but totally missed him.........Mario simply had to adjust his body slightly to manuever around that pathetic excuse for a block
C.) I didn't say it was a "gimme" sack, but similar to a lot of Mario's sacks it was nothing special


What bothers me is when a guy goes out of his way to apologize for VY and dog Mario at the same time. Anyone who knows lickity split about football realizes how much Mario adds to this team, and how well he has done.

So now I can't criticize a player on the texans??? The point that a lot of you were making that agree that Mario > VY, are using his "sacks" as evidence. I pointed out that many of his sacks are a result of being in the right place at the right time, that they came against bad teams, and that he was still somewhat inconsistent last season.......he showed me nothing last year as far as his technique and abilities one on one...........And I'm critical of Vince, and I realize he has to get better (cut down on INTs, become better in the pocket, read defenses better,etc.), but what most of you criticize him for are idiotic things such as...................Vince drinking, Vince not showing emotion on the sideline, etc.....These are all things that most of the time end up having no kind of "point" to them, and this is why I don't think many of you look at things objectively.........this is what we call "hatred" for someone and anything they do.


VY has not shown the commitment that can make him into a star

how???? are you with him as he practices and showers every week at practice???, lol..........statements like this one are the primary reason why what a lot of you say is smoke. Many of VY's coaches, teammates, etc. have repeatedly said that the guy has a good work ethic. Last year he even flew his pathetic receiving core to come practice with him way before the season even started. One interview comes out where Vince talks about the tough adjustment he had to make in his personal life, and now he isn't committed???? The QB position is "much" more difficult to master than a DE, and anyone who knows football will tell you this.....most QBs in after 1 1/2 years don't have the position "perfected", and still experience growing pains....

The Dream
06-02-2008, 10:16 AM
For the record, I wasn't saying anything last year other than continuing to display my dissappointment that we chose not to draft VY. I have never claimed any of the events that have taken place over the last 2 years have done anything to prove I am right though.


This is pretty much the point I'm making also. No where in this thread did I claim that VY is the obvious choice over Mario. The reasons for me wanting VY for the texans draft picks are the following...

A.) I've watched the guy since highschool and I've seen the progression he has made with each step
B.) I believe (and others will tell you) that he is eager to learn the position, and that he does have an incredible work ethic
C.) He has shown me on all levels of football that he does have "it" when it comes to performing well in clutch situations
D.) Overall I think QBs impact the game much more than a DE can



none of these reasons have anything to do with him being from Houston or being a Texas Longhorn.........I don't base "football" decisions off a crap like that.

b0ng
06-02-2008, 11:48 AM
A 10 page thread on a guy who could be out of the league in as little as 4 years. Trolls workin some MAGIC in this thread

BTW Vince Young sucks and I wouldn't want him to QB my sons pee-wee football team, much less the Texans.

Double Barrel
06-02-2008, 11:52 AM
By reading alot of these posts, seems like alot of you think he is worse than what the Texans had to endure for it's first several years...Stats are one thing, but he did get them in the playoffs his first season. ...

Actually, this is incorrect. The Tits went 8-8 that season and did not qualify for the playoffs.

adam
06-02-2008, 12:36 PM
Wow ... that's like climbing a sandpile .

LOL.

I look forward to seeing Young get cut by the Titans and picked up by a horrendous team, the 49ers or something like that. A team that doesn't have an elite defense and solid running game to carry the weight of bad QB play while winning games. Said simply, people don't realize how poor Young's play is because he plays for a team that wins games. When it's eventually realized that Young is not up to snuff, he'll be released and that'll be the end of this "he's a winner!" crap.

When put on a less than stellar team, he will likely play a lot like another potentially homosexual first round draft bust who was no longer having fun with football. Just my two cents.

BigTimeTexanFan
06-02-2008, 12:50 PM
LOL.

I look forward to seeing Young get cut by the Titans and picked up by a horrendous team, the 49ers or something like that. A team that doesn't have an elite defense and solid running game to carry the weight of bad QB play while winning games. Said simply, people don't realize how poor Young's play is because he plays for a team that wins games. When it's eventually realized that Young is not up to snuff, he'll be released and that'll be the end of this "he's a winner!" crap.

When put on a less than stellar team, he will likely play a lot like another potentially homosexual first round draft bust who was no longer having fun with football. Just my two cents.
This is why people say the Titans win in spite of VY. With their defense and running game, if they only got average play out of the quarterback poisition, they would be an elite team. He's only in his third year and who knows if he will improve, but last year he held that team back.

Mr teX
06-02-2008, 12:56 PM
The fact of the matter is, he was most dangerous with his legs in college; teams were never afraid of his arm at any time in his college career. IMO, The reason he's now claiming that it isn't/wasn't "fun anymore" is that he's figuring out that you can't just beat teams with your raw athleticism alone in the NFL. The playbooks are thicker, the guys hit harder & the athletes on both sides are for the most part on equal footing on down to the weakest team.

Bottom line is you can't be one dimensional as a QB in the NFL & expect to have success; which means to him, you'd better get that passing game up to par.

Texan_Bill
06-02-2008, 02:02 PM
All of you nay-sayers will get what's coming to you. VY will haunt y'alls dreams as he makes all the wrongs in the world - right again. The Titans will go onto win 5 Super Bowls under Vincent's reign..

You heathens will kiss 'his' feet and beg 'his' forgiveness...

Double Barrel
06-02-2008, 02:15 PM
All of you nay-sayers will get what's coming to you. VY will haunt y'alls dreams as he makes all the wrongs in the world - right again. The Titans will go onto win 5 Super Bowls under Vincent's reign..

You heathens will kiss 'his' feet and beg 'his' forgiveness...

You must have already visited the yellow lot recently, because I could tell you posted the above when you were on grass.

Texan_Bill
06-02-2008, 02:48 PM
You must have already visited the yellow lot recently, because I could tell you posted the above when you were on grass.

lol:

GuerillaBlack
06-02-2008, 03:33 PM
Matt Schaub >> Vince Young. The Texans have the better QB. Hoping he stay healthy this year. If our defense steps up like I am thinking, Texans >> Titans this year record wise.

travfrancis
06-02-2008, 04:27 PM
I look forward to seeing Young get cut by the Titans and picked up by a horrendous team, the 49ers or something like that. A team that doesn't have an elite defense and solid running game to carry the weight of bad QB play while winning games. Said simply, people don't realize how poor Young's play is because he plays for a team that wins games. When it's eventually realized that Young is not up to snuff, he'll be released and that'll be the end of this "he's a winner!" crap.

When put on a less than stellar team, he will likely play a lot like another potentially homosexual first round draft bust who was no longer having fun with football. Just my two cents.

Normally I wouldn't respond to such a bad post made by someone who is obviously really young and immature, but I will address your take that the Titans are winning inspite of Vince Young and are relying solely on their defense and running backs/off. line (I'd say "running game" here but a QB can be part of the running game, especially one with a skill set like VY, but those making this claim don't seem to acknowledge even that much).

Firstly let me point out that the Titans were in position to draft Vince Young at #3 in the draft for a reason. They were really terrible the season before going 4-12. They also started the season 0-3 before Vince Young became the starter. The Titans then went on to go 8-5 the rest of the way with VY at QB.


2006:
Titans defense: 25.0 allowed Pts/G, 2nd worst in the NFL
Record w/o VY starting 0-3
Record w/ VY starting 8-5
To give all the credit to the defense (which was 2nd worst in the league) and a running game (which VY is a part of), and claiming VY was actually a detriment to the team while their record was significantly better with him in there makes very little sense considering what took place.

2007:
Titans defense: 18.6 allowed Pts/G, 8th best in the NFL
Record 10-6
Obviously the defense got a lot better and did pick up for VY who definitely had his struggles. But there were also several instances where VY played good enough to win the game but his teammates failed him in costly situations, such as the Brandon Jones drop vs. the Colts that would have put the Titans in position for an attempt at a game winning FG, as well as the Denver game where the Titans WR's dropped a lot of passes and the defense gave up four TD's over 40 yards. Vince also dealt with a quad injury that hampered him most of the season.

My point really is that is works both ways. The Titans as a team have improved significantly over the last couple of years and Vince Young has undoubtedly been a part of that.

GP
06-02-2008, 04:37 PM
Normally I wouldn't respond to such a bad post made by someone who is obviously really young and immature, but I will address your take that the Titans are winning inspite of Vince Young and are relying solely on their defense and running backs/off. line (I'd say "running game" here but a QB can be part of the running game, especially one with a skill set like VY, but those making this claim don't seem to acknowledge even that much).

Firstly let me point out that the Titans were in position to draft Vince Young at #3 in the draft for a reason. They were really terrible the season before going 4-12. They also started the season 0-3 before Vince Young became the starter. The Titans then went on to go 8-5 the rest of the way with VY at QB.


2006:
Titans defense: 25.0 allowed Pts/G, 2nd worst in the NFL
Record w/o VY starting 0-3
Record w/ VY starting 8-5
To give all the credit to the defense (which was 2nd worst in the league) and a running game (which VY is a part of), and claiming VY was actually a detriment to the team while their record was significantly better with him in there makes very little sense considering what took place.

2007:
Titans defense: 18.6 allowed Pts/G, 8th best in the NFL
Record 10-6
Obviously the defense got a lot better and did pick up for VY who definitely had his struggles. But there were also several instances where VY played good enough to win the game but his teammates failed him in costly situations, such as the Brandon Jones drop vs. the Colts that would have put the Titans in position for an attempt at a game winning FG, as well as the Denver game where the Titans WR's dropped a lot of passes and the defense gave up four TD's over 40 yards. Vince also dealt with a hamstring injury that hampered him most of the season.

By point really is that is works both ways. The Titans as a team have improved significantly over the last couple of years and Vince Young has undoubtedly been a part of that.

(Sigh)

Dude...just stop. I feel like my kid is droning on and on about how she wants to buy a $3.00 popsicle from the ice cream man when we have a gallon of Blue Bell in the freezer. :specnatz:

The judges have scored this contest 30-27 for the champion.

b0ng
06-02-2008, 04:40 PM
By point really is that is works both ways. The Titans as a team have improved significantly over the last couple of years and Vince Young has undoubtedly been a part of that.

LOL. He was on the roster, that was about it.

Texan_Bill
06-02-2008, 04:49 PM
One could look at this way too...

2006 Tennessee Titans 32nd in Overall Defense.
2007 Tennessee Titans 5th in Overall Defense.
That is one helluva turn around in defense.

The rushing offense appeared to remain (for all intents and purposes) about the same (both years 5th in rushing). Yet they only improved by 2 wins in the win column.

Here's where it gets tricky... In total offense Tennesse was 21st for 2007, which means their passing game would have to be fairly inept to bring them all the way down to 21st.. Their passing game ranked 27th in the league.

So, I see a defense that went from 32nd to 5th in one year, a running game that remained solid. Special teams playing well (see Bironas 8 field goals). The only thing that I saw that regressed for the Titans was was Vincent and his 9TD's and 17 picks.

Texan_Bill
06-02-2008, 04:53 PM
I will admit this though. I expect Vincent to have a good year running the ball and a little better year throwing it. I think Heimerdinkleshitkid will roll 'em out a lot more and give him the option to run or throw and put him in spread offense reads..

It will work for a while. Right up until defenses do what defenses do..... Catch up to it (see run and shoot - similar to the spread except not in the shotgun).

travfrancis
06-02-2008, 04:58 PM
One could look at this way too...

2006 Tennessee Titans 32nd in Overall Defense.
2007 Tennessee Titans 5th in Overall Defense.
That is one helluva turn around in defense.

The rushing offense appeared to remain (for all intents and purposes) about the same (both years 5th in rushing). Yet they only improved by 2 wins in the win column.

Here's where it gets tricky... In total offense Tennesse was 21st for 2007, which means their passing game would have to be fairly inept to bring them all the way down to 21st.. Their passing game ranked 27th in the league.

So, I see a defense that went from 32nd to 5th in one year, a running game that remained solid. Special teams playing well (see Bironas 8 field goals). The only thing that I saw that regressed for the Titans was was Vincent and his 9TD's and 17 picks.

Whats your point? Statistically VY had a horrible season last year I don't think anyone would disagree with that. I also think most of his fans would grant you that he had a bit of a sophmore slump last season. If you give him no credit for the team's performance in 2007 because the defense was great, then you'd have to give him credit in 2006 when the defense was terrible if you hold a good running game to be constant. Since his team has been winning and hasn't always had a great defense you couldn't say during VY's two seasons in the NFL his team has won inspite of him because of a great defense and running game.

Texan_Bill
06-02-2008, 05:08 PM
Whats your point? Statistically VY had a horrible season last year I don't think anyone would disagree with that. I also think most of his fans would grant you that he had a sophmore slump last season. If you give him no credit for the team's performance in 2007 because the defense was great, then you'd have to give him credit in 2006 when the defense was terrible if you hold a good running game to be a constant. Since his team has been winning and hasn't always had a great defense you couldn't say during VY's two seasons in the NFL his team has won inspite of him, because of a great defense and running game.

The point was the original point stated by many here... The Titans won in spite Vincent - not because of him....

I don't give him credit for 2006 or 2007. 2006 had a bad defense, but unfortunately they also had Pacman Jones that was credited with 4 INT's (1 returned for a TD) and he also contributed heavily in special teams with 3 returned punts for TD's...

Statistically speaking, Vincent's rookie season was no better or on par than HWSRN's rookie season (the exception being rushing yards 552 to 282).

Specnatz
06-02-2008, 05:10 PM
Normally I wouldn't respond to such a bad post made by someone who is obviously really young and immature, but I will address your take that the Titans are winning inspite of Vince Young and are relying solely on their defense and running backs/off. line (I'd say "running game" here but a QB can be part of the running game, especially one with a skill set like VY, but those making this claim don't seem to acknowledge even that much).

Firstly let me point out that the Titans were in position to draft Vince Young at #3 in the draft for a reason. They were really terrible the season before going 4-12. They also started the season 0-3 before Vince Young became the starter. The Titans then went on to go 8-5 the rest of the way with VY at QB.


2006:
Titans defense: 25.0 allowed Pts/G, 2nd worst in the NFL
Record w/o VY starting 0-3
Record w/ VY starting 8-5
To give all the credit to the defense (which was 2nd worst in the league) and a running game (which VY is a part of), and claiming VY was actually a detriment to the team while their record was significantly better with him in there makes very little sense considering what took place.

2007:
Titans defense: 18.6 allowed Pts/G, 8th best in the NFL
Record 10-6
Obviously the defense got a lot better and did pick up for VY who definitely had his struggles. But there were also several instances where VY played good enough to win the game but his teammates failed him in costly situations, such as the Brandon Jones drop vs. the Colts that would have put the Titans in position for an attempt at a game winning FG, as well as the Denver game where the Titans WR's dropped a lot of passes and the defense gave up four TD's over 40 yards. Vince also dealt with a hamstring injury that hampered him most of the season.

My point really is that is works both ways. The Titans as a team have improved significantly over the last couple of years and Vince Young has undoubtedly been a part of that.

Whats your point? Statistically VY had a horrible season last year I don't think anyone would disagree with that. I also think most of his fans would grant you that he had a sophmore slump last season. If you give him no credit for the team's performance in 2007 because the defense was great, then you'd have to give him credit in 2006 when the defense was terrible if you hold a good running game to be constant. Since his team has been winning and hasn't always had a great defense you couldn't say during VY's two seasons in the NFL his team has won inspite of him because of a great defense and running game.

The point was and still is they won in spite of vy. You said it yourself, vy played like crap and his 17 Ints are proof of that. No one is taking away how he performed last year, your putting words in peoples mouths. While over all the defense was not as good as 2007 in 2006 but if you look at each individual game you can see they heped with wins. Like in the giants game when there was a comback. If not for Qubert picking off passes there would not be a win. Also, the 60 yard field goal by Bironas, there would not be a win. Do not even say about a game winning drive, cause if your having to have your kicker kick a 60 yard field goal, it was a stalled drive and the kicker bailed you out. It seems you are full of more excuses than the federal government when they waste tax payers money.

travfrancis
06-02-2008, 05:18 PM
The point was and still is they won in spite of vy. You said it yourself, vy played like crap and his 17 Ints are proof of that. No one is taking away how he performed last year, your putting words in peoples mouths. While over all the defense was not as good as 2007 in 2006 but if you look at each individual game you can see they heped with wins. Like in the giants game when there was a comback. If not for Qubert picking off passes there would not be a win. Also, the 60 yard field goal by Bironas, there would not be a win. Do not even say about a game winning drive, cause if your having to have your kicker kick a 60 yard field goal, it was a stalled drive and the kicker bailed you out. It seems you are full of more excuses than the federal government when they waste tax payers money.

Hmm... so a defense can perform better than it's stats would indicate? Does the same hold true for QB's maybe?

The Giants game you mention also featured VY in a 24/35 249 yds 2 tds 0 int, 10 carries 69 yds (leading rusher) 1 td performance. VY scored 3 Td's in the 4th quarter in what was the biggest comeback in NFL history for a team with a rookie QB.
So yes the comeback couldn't have happened without some big plays from Pacman, but also couldn't have happened without VY, again it works both ways.

Texan_Bill
06-02-2008, 05:22 PM
Hmm... so a defense can perform better than it's stats would indicate? Does the same hold true for QB's maybe?


Yep... See the 2002 Texans defense. Defenses can be hung out to dry when their own QB can't move the ball.

Nope... Although there are always exceptions, generally speaking the team goes as the QB goes.

travfrancis
06-02-2008, 05:25 PM
Originally Posted by travfrancis
Hmm... so a defense can perform better than it's stats would indicate? Does the same hold true for QB's maybe?
Nope... Although there are always exceptions, generally speaking the team goes as the QB goes.

If a QB is only as good as his stats, and a team is only as good as their QB, then shouldn't the Titans have a bad record since their QB is bad by your definition?

BTW there are a lot of really knowledgeable football fans that would adamently disagree with your take that judging a QB by his stats is the best method. They would probably argue you'd be best off judging a QB by watching how he performs in a game than looking strictly at a stat sheet. This was talked about constantly on this board while David Carr was here.

Lucky
06-02-2008, 05:28 PM
I also think most of his fans would grant you that he had a sophmore slump last season.
I wouldn't agree with that. Young improved in completion %, yards per pass, and QB rating. That the Titans scoring dipped slightly had more to do with the defense and special teams contributing 2 TDs last season, as opposed to 8 TDs in 2006.

The aspect that Young regressed in was rushing. And that was likely due to the hamstring injury you mentioned earlier (though I thought it was a quad). If Young regains his rushing prowess, stays healthy (a big if for a running QB), and makes another modest step in improvement as a passer, the Titans offense should be improved. But, is improved going to be good enough in the AFC?

If the Titans don't make the playoffs in '08, Young will face pressure. Even if he improves as a passer from year 2 to year 3, he'll still be well below average. Young will probably get more blame than he deserves, just as he received too much credit in 2006. How will Young react to that type of pressure? Steve McNair faced similar circumstances prior to the '99 season, and led his Titans team to the Super Bowl. I wonder if Young has the same type of mettle.

Texan_Bill
06-02-2008, 05:41 PM
If a QB is only as good as his stats, and a team is only as good as their QB, then shouldn't the Titans have a bad record since their QB is bad by your definition?

BTW there are a lot of really knowledgeable football fans that would adamently disagree with your take that judging a QB by his stats is the best method. They would probably argue you'd be best off judging a QB by watching how he performs in a game than looking strictly at a stat sheet.

First, I ONLY use stats as a point of reference. Been around way too long to know that they dont show everything AND (as many things in life) can be manipulated in any fashion needed to strengthen / weaken an argument.

I just think it's a great disservice to other members of a football team when their QB's play has been average - at best - yet somehow he is still overhyped. He has done nothing at the professional level to this point, to warrant anything but the next coming of (fill in the blank with any average joe).

If you take note Trav. a few posts back, I admitted that I think Young will have his best season coming up. (Not that I'm happy abou that, but....)

Specnatz
06-02-2008, 05:56 PM
Hmm... so a defense can perform better than it's stats would indicate? Does the same hold true for QB's maybe?

The Giants game you mention also featured VY in a 24/35 249 yds 2 tds 0 int, 10 carries 69 yds (leading rusher) 1 td performance. VY scored 3 Td's in the 4th quarter in what was the biggest comeback in NFL history for a team with a rookie QB.
So yes the comeback couldn't have happened without some big plays from Pacman, but also couldn't have happened without VY, again it works both ways.

Yet again you try and put words in someones mouth. I said yes the defense played poorly but in one game if not for the Ints by pacman and the punt return by pacman, that would have been a loss. So your sausage boy does not deserve all the credit you are bestowing apon him.

In one game you can perform well and the next exceptionaly horrible and then you would have an average, it is not to hard to figure that out.

Texans_Chick
06-02-2008, 08:01 PM
I wouldn't agree with that. Young improved in completion %, yards per pass, and QB rating. That the Titans scoring dipped slightly had more to do with the defense and special teams contributing 2 TDs last season, as opposed to 8 TDs in 2006.

The aspect that Young regressed in was rushing. And that was likely due to the hamstring injury you mentioned earlier (though I thought it was a quad). If Young regains his rushing prowess, stays healthy (a big if for a running QB), and makes another modest step in improvement as a passer, the Titans offense should be improved. But, is improved going to be good enough in the AFC?

If the Titans don't make the playoffs in '08, Young will face pressure. Even if he improves as a passer from year 2 to year 3, he'll still be well below average. Young will probably get more blame than he deserves, just as he received too much credit in 2006. How will Young react to that type of pressure? Steve McNair faced similar circumstances prior to the '99 season, and led his Titans team to the Super Bowl. I wonder if Young has the same type of mettle.


Young had a quad injury. It is a hard type of injury to rehab from because usually it is an injury that feels pretty good for a while, unless you use maximum exertion (like avoiding a rush or running to open ground). It is an injury that could easily become chronic if it is not rehabbed properly.

More on VY's injury from last season (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/01/04/vince-youngs-quadriceps-injury-could-become-chronic/).

Strange factors for the Titans next year:

1. How will the defense be with the changes on the line?
2. How fast will Young adapt to the new OC? They are using the same language as last year, but it will be interesting to see if there is a learning curve dealing with the new OC.
3. Will he stay healthy?
4. How much Vince being Vince will we see, and will this result in more injury? He rarely takes straight hits, but his quad injury didn't come from a hit. A Vince Young who can't run is easier to defend.
5. Overall, does he continue to mature? I'm not sure that the Titan fans want to hear more questions about his maturity/pouting, his understanding of defenses, or more excuses for bad TD/int ratios.
6. Has the league figured him out in year 3?

travfrancis
06-03-2008, 01:05 AM
We will never have a way back machine. If VY fails to get a SB in Tennessee that doesn't mean he wouldn't have got one in Houston, or vice versa.

Personally, I can't think of a current situation that could be any better for Young:

1. An owner who loves him.
2. A coach who has a history of patience with unorthodox quarterback talent.
3. A coach and owner who are willing to fire a coach to find the best one to work with Young.
4. A team with a good defense and commitment to the run to take pressure off of him.
5. Playing for a small city team that pressure-wise is probably one of the easiest places to play in the league.

The Houston situation made heart sense but not head sense:

1. I think the biggest Young fan can recognize that Kubiak's offensive system does not mesh well with Young's skill sets. The Texans offense requires pinpoint passing accuracy and ability to read defenses and putting the ball where it wants to go.

Last season really let you see the system nature of the offense, and its potential. I have a hard time seeing that work with a let Vince be Vince thing.

The ultimate goal is to win championships, a offensive system is just a means to an end. If VY turns out to be a Hall of Fame QB then obviously the Texans would have made the wrong decision if they passed on becasue he didn't fit their current offensive system (BTW I don't believe this is what happened, I think he would have been a nice fit in Kubiak's offense. I think they passed on him because they didn't fully recognize his talent and the owner was going to continue with Carr at all costs).

2. Kubiak requires his quarterbacks to be mentally tough and be good leaders in club house. Pouting and thinking about quitting and needing your teammates to convince you not to quit wouldn't go over very well with him, no matter what was going on in Young's life.

I think Jeff Fisher values that stuff as well. I also completely disagree with the picture you paint of Vince Young. First of all no teammate ever had to convince him not to quit I don't even know where that came from. I haven't ever seen any reason to believe his teammates aren't really fond of him, not only that but he appears to have a lot of friends across the league. Hell, he even flew several of his WRs to Houston on his dime to hangout with him and workout. I don't think they would have done thaf if they didn't like the guy or respect him. Also I don't think there any reason to believe the coaching staff has been upset with his work ethic or attitude. The players seem to believe in him and like him and the coaches seem happy with him. That's what matters isn't it?


1. How will the defense be with the changes on the line?
2. How fast will Young adapt to the new OC? They are using the same language as last year, but it will be interesting to see if there is a learning curve dealing with the new OC.
3. Will he stay healthy?
4. How much Vince being Vince will we see, and will this result in more injury? He rarely takes straight hits, but his quad injury didn't come from a hit. A Vince Young who can't run is easier to defend.
5. Overall, does he continue to mature? I'm not sure that the Titan fans want to hear more questions about his maturity/pouting, his understanding of defenses, or more excuses for bad TD/int ratios.
6. Has the league figured him out in year 3?

That's a pretty good list. In regard to question #1 I think the defensive line is going to better than last year. The Dline last year had no depth at all especially at DT. Haynesworth was banged up the last 5 games or so of the season, they were signing DTs off the street and were forced to play them significant minutes. Also anything time Haynesworth spent out of the lineup diminished the effectiveness of Tony Brown who's a pretty good compliment to Haynesworth, but a little light to be playing inside with a DT who's not dominant. The Titans did lose Odom and LaBoy, but they still have their 2 studs in KVB and Haynesworth and should have a lot more depth this year with Kearse being signed and the addition of four guys drafted in the top 5 rounds in the prior two drafts (DT Johnson and DE Ford were drafted in rounds 3 and 5 last year but both missed the entire season with injuries), and they drafted DT Jason Jones and DE William Hayes in rounds 2 and 3 this year.
Here's a great article on why the Titans could be better in the trenches this year http://www.titansradio.com/mkeithblurb.html.

I think the Titans have quietly had a really solid offseason, I think bringing back 'Dinger can lead to some good things offensively. No the Titans didn't acquire a #1 WR, but I think Alge Crumpler is going to be a very nice addition to the offense and really be a weapon for VY. I really don't see any reason why the Titans shouldn't be an improved team next year.

dalemurphy
06-03-2008, 06:15 AM
Whats your point? Statistically VY had a horrible season last year I don't think anyone would disagree with that. I also think most of his fans would grant you that he had a bit of a sophmore slump last season. If you give him no credit for the team's performance in 2007 because the defense was great, then you'd have to give him credit in 2006 when the defense was terrible if you hold a good running game to be constant. Since his team has been winning and hasn't always had a great defense you couldn't say during VY's two seasons in the NFL his team has won inspite of him because of a great defense and running game.


Vince YOung's career is right in line with this group of QBs:

Mike Vick
R.Cunningham
KStewart
Steve McNair
Donovan McNabb

Here's the question- will he actually learn the nuances of the QB position before his special skills deteriorate like McNair and McNabb did or will he never learn them like Stewart and Vick.

Then, I guess there's the Cunningham option- he could learn to play QB years after his athleticism has faded.

Vince was so far behind other QBs coming out of college in his ability to read defenses and work through progressions, just like those guys listed above (with the exception of McNabb possibly)... Why? because every coach and team he ever played for relied on his insane athletic ability to win. It was so much easier for a coach to tell Vince, "look at this guy, if he's not open, tuck it and run!" Pocket passers like Carson, Peyton, Aikman, etc... probably were hundreds of thousands of reps ahead of Vince coming out of college- of just sitting in the pocket and watching the safeties move, the linebackers drop and reacting to it while he progresses through his reads. It still took those guys a season or two to catch up to the pro game. The idea that Vince would be able to learn and excel at the qb position in less than 4 or 5 years was silly. Furthermore, he was also hampered by a college coach (Brown) and coordinator (GDavis) who are particularly poor at preparing their players for the pro game.

These are the reasons why I didn't want to draft VYoung. The best case scenario for a team that drafted him and gave him a $24 million dollar signing bonus is that he could become a good QB at the end of the contract... That doesn't seem like a good investment. We can argue about how much of the Titan's success is a result of VY. However, I think it's fair to say that the Texans wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs in either '07 or certainly '06 with him at QB.

Another issue with building a team around a guy like that is: what do you do when he gets injured? You can't simply plug in a backup and have him do the same things VY does. Those guys don't exist. So, when he misses time, the entire offense has to dramatically shift what it's doing. That kind of reliance on a single player makes me very uncomfortable. In Indy, if Peyton goes down it would be devastating for them because of how great he is. However, what they do on offense won't change much. They'll simply be missing his greatness. If VY goes down, the entire philosophy and means by which the offense succeeds will change. That, IMO, isn't healthy for a team.

Myself and others who find themselves rooting against him do so primarily for 2 reasons:

1. He plays for Bud's team in Tennessee.
2. We became fed up with the myopic Longhorn fans screaming bloody murder when we didn't draft him... or cheering like Titan fans at the game in 2006 when they won in OT on his 40 yard run.

Wolf
06-03-2008, 10:01 AM
The biggest question of 2008 ó itís all about Vince Young and it can be summed up by how much and how soon.



http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/news.php?viewStory=60599

Double Barrel
06-03-2008, 10:04 AM
I think he would have been a nice fit in Kubiak's offense.

VY, for all his strengths, has never been a WCO-type of QB. Even his most homer supporters should recognize this simple fact.

The Dream
06-03-2008, 10:24 AM
Normally I wouldn't respond to such a bad post made by someone who is obviously really young and immature, but I will address your take that the Titans are winning inspite of Vince Young and are relying solely on their defense and running backs/off. line (I'd say "running game" here but a QB can be part of the running game, especially one with a skill set like VY, but those making this claim don't seem to acknowledge even that much).

Firstly let me point out that the Titans were in position to draft Vince Young at #3 in the draft for a reason. They were really terrible the season before going 4-12. They also started the season 0-3 before Vince Young became the starter. The Titans then went on to go 8-5 the rest of the way with VY at QB.


2006:
Titans defense: 25.0 allowed Pts/G, 2nd worst in the NFL
Record w/o VY starting 0-3
Record w/ VY starting 8-5
To give all the credit to the defense (which was 2nd worst in the league) and a running game (which VY is a part of), and claiming VY was actually a detriment to the team while their record was significantly better with him in there makes very little sense considering what took place.

2007:
Titans defense: 18.6 allowed Pts/G, 8th best in the NFL
Record 10-6
Obviously the defense got a lot better and did pick up for VY who definitely had his struggles. But there were also several instances where VY played good enough to win the game but his teammates failed him in costly situations, such as the Brandon Jones drop vs. the Colts that would have put the Titans in position for an attempt at a game winning FG, as well as the Denver game where the Titans WR's dropped a lot of passes and the defense gave up four TD's over 40 yards. Vince also dealt with a quad injury that hampered him most of the season.

My point really is that is works both ways. The Titans as a team have improved significantly over the last couple of years and Vince Young has undoubtedly been a part of that.


wait a minute............he's making sense............


Vince YOung's career is right in line with this group of QBs:

Mike Vick
R.Cunningham
KStewart
Steve McNair
Donovan McNabb


why cause he's black and athletic?, lol........seriously even amongst these 5 men, there are incredible differences in their games.........even at the beginning of their careers. Which is why I think one has to be an ***** to compare Vince to Vick.....

VY, for all his strengths, has never been a WCO-type of QB. Even his most homer supporters should recognize this simple fact.


he's never played in one, but I could imagine if he had receivers and the running back out the backfield, that he could indeed succeed in it eventually.............

Specnatz
06-03-2008, 10:55 AM
VY, for all his strengths, has never been a WCO-type of QB. Even his most homer supporters should recognize this simple fact.

The simple truth is no they can't, by the evidence here.

Texans_Chick
06-03-2008, 11:35 AM
The ultimate goal is to win championships, a offensive system is just a means to an end. If VY turns out to be a Hall of Fame QB then obviously the Texans would have made the wrong decision if they passed on becasue he didn't fit their current offensive system (BTW I don't believe this is what happened, I think he would have been a nice fit in Kubiak's offense. I think they passed on him because they didn't fully recognize his talent and the owner was going to continue with Carr at all costs).



I think Jeff Fisher values that stuff as well. I also completely disagree with the picture you paint of Vince Young. First of all no teammate ever had to convince him not to quit I don't even know where that came from. I haven't ever seen any reason to believe his teammates aren't really fond of him, not only that but he appears to have a lot of friends across the league. Hell, he even flew several of his WRs to Houston on his dime to hangout with him and workout. I don't think they would have done thaf if they didn't like the guy or respect him. Also I don't think there any reason to believe the coaching staff has been upset with his work ethic or attitude. The players seem to believe in him and like him and the coaches seem happy with him. That's what matters isn't it?




That's a pretty good list. In regard to question #1 I think the defensive line is going to better than last year. The Dline last year had no depth at all especially at DT. Haynesworth was banged up the last 5 games or so of the season, they were signing DTs off the street and were forced to play them significant minutes. Also anything time Haynesworth spent out of the lineup diminished the effectiveness of Tony Brown who's a pretty good compliment to Haynesworth, but a little light to be playing inside with a DT who's not dominant. The Titans did lose Odom and LaBoy, but they still have their 2 studs in KVB and Haynesworth and should have a lot more depth this year with Kearse being signed and the addition of four guys drafted in the top 5 rounds in the prior two drafts (DT Johnson and DE Ford were drafted in rounds 3 and 5 last year but both missed the entire season with injuries), and they drafted DT Jason Jones and DE William Hayes in rounds 2 and 3 this year.
Here's a great article on why the Titans could be better in the trenches this year http://www.titansradio.com/mkeithblurb.html.

I think the Titans have quietly had a really solid offseason, I think bringing back 'Dinger can lead to some good things offensively. No the Titans didn't acquire a #1 WR, but I think Alge Crumpler is going to be a very nice addition to the offense and really be a weapon for VY. I really don't see any reason why the Titans shouldn't be an improved team next year.

Some thoughts:

1. If Fisher can make Young a hall of fame quarterback, it doesn't mean that Kubiak could. There is no way back machine to be able to tell.

Kubiak's offense values making quick decisions with the ball, reading defenses, precision in throwing the ball, actually precision in all aspects of the offense. If one person doesn't do their job the way they are suppose to, the play won't work.

Young, like all players, has things he does well and not so well, and reading defenses, following plays and precision throwing are not what his game is all about. Young is best at Vince being Vince.

Most of the Texans staff are imports from the Denver system now. As much as it might be fun to do all that hometown hero stuff, the reality is that Young would have been so powerful in the organization due to his popularity before taking even one snap that he probably would have figured that the Texans offense was no fun and got the coaching staff fired.

2. Re: Teammates making sure he didn't quit (http://http://www.nfl.com/news/story;jsessionid=482E1F3E1402F4BDD1F3ED07728E8FB8? id=09000d5d808782d6&template=with-video&confirm=true).

"I really thought long and hard about it," Young said on Thursday after practice. "There was so much going on with my family. It was crazy being an NFL quarterback. It wasn't fun anymore. All of the fun was out of it. All of the excitement was gone. All I was doing was worrying about things.

"My teammates helped lift me out of it. I prayed really hard. And I began to focus on God's calling for me. Play football. Be a role model."

....

Keith Bullock "Whatever pressures were going on in his life at that time last summer, he was feeling big stress. He was talking about quitting football and though it might have been for the time, for the moment, it was real. I tried to look out for VY as a friend. We went to Europe this past March and it was good for him.

I can't imagine any head coach being happy with that sort of talk, even if it was in the past. I am sure Fisher isn't very happy with that, but what choice does he have other than make Young repudiate those statements and say that they are overblown.

3. Your statements about the line and receivers is all conjecture at this point, like what we are doing with the Texans. The Titan's reliance on Dinger to fix all that ails the Titan offense is sort of like Texans fans thinking that Gibbs will fix all that ails the Texans offense.

Ultimately, I think Young is a better fit with the Titans (nowthat they ditched Chow and replaced him) than Young would have been with the Texans. He would have wanted to win for Houston so much, but probably would have been very unhappy with the state of the defense and trying to learn an offense that didn't suit his skill sets.

Personally, I wish he had ended up with the Jets or something, but Bud Adams is a good match with him because he will give him all the chances in the world to succeed.

Texan_Bill
06-03-2008, 11:41 AM
We went to Europe this past March and it was good for him.

:thinking: Wasn't he supposed to be in school?



:stirpot:



*yes, I know it could have been over Spring Break*

Overalls
06-03-2008, 11:47 AM
:thinking: Wasn't he supposed to be in school?



:stirpot:



*yes, I know it could have been over Spring Break*

One thing that gets me about Vince is that he acts more like he is still some college kid trying to be the big man on campus instread of a struggling NFL QB.

Texans_Chick
06-03-2008, 11:52 AM
:thinking: Wasn't he supposed to be in school?



:stirpot:



*yes, I know it could have been over Spring Break*


I believe he was referring to the previous summer.

The thing that I think is funny about that article is that he makes a big point of saying that the shirtless pictures were from April, not last week. And says it on a day after he just spent 4 days going to 6 huge parties celebrating his birthday.

Specnatz
06-03-2008, 12:38 PM
I believe he was referring to the previous summer.

The thing that I think is funny about that article is that he makes a big point of saying that the shirtless pictures were from April, not last week. And says it on a day after he just spent 4 days going to 6 huge parties celebrating his birthday.

But he is in school studying hard, and also working real hard to learn the new offense being installed.

HOU-TEX
06-03-2008, 01:24 PM
But he is in school studying hard, and also working real hard to learn the new offense being installed.

Yep, he should be able to pump out them baskets like a banshee now. Look how much he's improved. He's a basket weaving SOB now.

First week of class:

http://data4.blog.de/media/220/1962220_b6360f595a_m.jpg

Final week of class:

http://baby.lovetoknow.com/wiki/images/Baby/thumb/0/0c/Gift_basket.jpg/300px-Gift_basket.jpg

Texan_Bill
06-03-2008, 01:29 PM
Yep, he should be able to pump out them baskets like a banshee now. Look how much he's improved. He's a basket weaving SOB now.

First week of class:

http://data4.blog.de/media/220/1962220_b6360f595a_m.jpg

Final week of class:

http://baby.lovetoknow.com/wiki/images/Baby/thumb/0/0c/Gift_basket.jpg/300px-Gift_basket.jpg

:spit: You kill me HOU-TEX!! "...must spread some rep......."

travfrancis
06-03-2008, 01:32 PM
The WCO features a lot of short-intermediate range passes. That's pretty much Vince's strong point in his passing game. He has a funky delivery but one advantage to it is that he has a really quick release, almost like he's shooting darts. That would seem to be pretty advantageous in a WCO. Throwing the deep ball is where people argue he's most shaky when breaking down his passing game. His completion percentage of 62.3% was good enough for 16th in the NFL last season. I think he also led the nation in completion percentage his last year in college. He has certainly shown potential in being an accurate passer.

Also just looking at some of the QBs Kubiak has been involved with mobility seems to be a common attribute (S. Young, Elway, Plummer).

Specnatz
06-03-2008, 01:35 PM
The WCO features a lot of short-intermediate range passes. That's pretty much Vince's strong point in his passing game. He has a funky delivery but one advantage to it is that he has a really quick release, almost like he's shooting darts. That would seem to be pretty advantageous in a WCO. Throwing the deep ball is where people argue he's most shaky when breaking down his passing game. His completion percentage of 55.2% was good enough for 11th in the NFL last season. I think he also led the nation in completion percentage his last year in college. He has certainly shown potential in being an accurate passer.

In a WCO you have to be able to read defenses and do a read progression, again not one of his strong suits.

Texan_Bill
06-03-2008, 01:38 PM
I think he also led the nation in completion percentage his last year in college. .

Awesome!! I led that statistic for a good while in the NFL.


Signed,

David Carr


:stirpot:

HOU-TEX
06-03-2008, 01:46 PM
Awesome!! I led that statistic for a good while in the NFL.


Signed,

David Carr


:stirpot:

I'm also tied with Brunell with 22 consecutive completions.

Yep, when I get up in the morning.....I just piss excellence.

Signed again by,

David Carr

Double Barrel
06-03-2008, 01:49 PM
"I don't want to be a pocket quarterback."
~ Vince Young (http://www.nfl.com/news/story;jsessionid=482E1F3E1402F4BDD1F3ED07728E8FB8? id=09000d5d808782d6&template=with-video&confirm=true)

This is Vince in his own words.

"Compare me to Randall Cunningham in my game."
~ Vince Young (http://www.nfl.com/news/story;jsessionid=482E1F3E1402F4BDD1F3ED07728E8FB8? id=09000d5d808782d6&template=with-video&confirm=true)

He wants to be a running QB, not one that is heavily dependent on the pass.

I do not see how this attitude is compatible with a WCO-style offense.

Blazing Arrow
06-03-2008, 01:57 PM
All of you nay-sayers will get what's coming to you. VY will haunt y'alls dreams as he makes all the wrongs in the world - right again. The Titans will go onto win 5 Super Bowls under Vincent's reign..

You heathens will kiss 'his' feet and beg 'his' forgiveness...

That's the spirit Bill!

Specnatz
06-03-2008, 02:12 PM
Also just looking at some of the QBs Kubiak has been involved with mobility seems to be a common attribute (S. Young, Elway, Plummer).

You do understand that having mobility is different than being a running QB or I should say a RB who lines up under center, don't you? Young and Elway are wo great individuals to look at, they did not win anything until they learned how to throw first and scramble second. Oh and to point it out, I said scramble, not run. Huge differance, incase you did not know.

Texan_Bill
06-03-2008, 02:12 PM
That's the spirit Bill!

LMAO!!! Don't get too used to it.

Fox
06-03-2008, 02:18 PM
In a WCO you have to be able to read defenses and do a read progression, again not one of his strong suits.

Is there an offense out there where the QB doesn't have to be able to read the defense and progress through reads? Besides the Texans offense under Capers...

I get your point, it's extra important in the WCO, but I was under the impression that just about any NFL quality QB does those things, regardless of the offense they play in.

Specnatz
06-03-2008, 02:37 PM
Is there an offense out there where the QB doesn't have to be able to read the defense and progress through reads? Besides the Texans offense under Capers...

I get your point, it's extra important in the WCO, but I was under the impression that just about any NFL quality QB does those things, regardless of the offense they play in.

Sure spread offense where you look for main target not there run like hell and hope something good happens. You know the VY offense in a nut shell.

The Dream
06-03-2008, 03:53 PM
The WCO features a lot of short-intermediate range passes. That's pretty much Vince's strong point in his passing game.

exactly....the reason they didn't want Vince was, because they wanted to give Carr another chance....God knows why, but they did it.......

almost like he's shooting darts

lol my dad has said the same exact thing since his UT days....

Blazing Arrow
06-03-2008, 04:16 PM
This thread should be merged with the other VY thread.

Texan_Bill
06-03-2008, 04:23 PM
This thread should be merged with the other VY thread.

I'm not sure VY could handle the move. He might contemplate quitting again.

HOU-TEX
06-03-2008, 04:24 PM
This thread should be merged with the other VY thread.

Truthfully, they both should be merged with the flatulence Bud disperses before his morning dumpage of the previous evenings rodent buffet.

That's what the threads mean to me. :gun:

Tedc
06-03-2008, 04:25 PM
I'm not sure VY could handle the move. He might contemplate quitting again.

Nice!

Blazing Arrow
06-03-2008, 05:37 PM
Truthfully, they both should be merged with the flatulence Bud disperses before his morning dumpage of the previous evenings rodent buffet.

That's what the threads mean to me. :gun:

Funny that is basically the fealing from the league on the Texans orginazation. Arizona Central. :fans:

Blazing Arrow
06-03-2008, 05:38 PM
I'm not sure VY could handle the move. He might contemplate quitting again.

lol ... that made me laugh.

mussop
06-24-2008, 06:17 PM
I am sure those pics of VY got you all hot and bothered didn't it? You say he is your type a guy, now we all know what ya ment.

leave Mack alone. So what if they have a special relationship.

Second Honeymoon
06-24-2008, 06:43 PM
2004 Rose Bowl Champion. Total bad ass in this game. Play after play.
2005 National Champion. 41-38. Nuff said.
2006 Taken 3rd Overall. Played extremely well for rookie. misses playoffs by 1 game after 0-4 start without him starting.
2007 Titans make playoffs in his 2nd year. Lose to Chargers in Wild Card Round.

i don't know what he has to worry about as far as pressure. he needs to realize that you dont just come in and pwn the league from Day One. i don't think the Tennessee media is pressuring him to do more (with so little around him) he must be doing it to himself and he needs to get over it or risk screwing up his career. one thing is for sure, he is a helluva football player and he just needs some veteran to help him along in his development. their new OC will be counted on to do that if the Titans have any dream of being relevant in 08. If the Titans find a way to make the playoffs this year with that talent, they should open up a Jeff Fisher wing of the Hall Of Fame. Just an incredible football coach....sucks he works for a scumbag like Bud.

Specnatz
06-25-2008, 08:29 AM
2004 Rose Bowl Champion. Total bad ass in this game. Play after play.
2005 National Champion. 41-38. Nuff said.
2006 Taken 3rd Overall. Played extremely well for rookie. misses playoffs by 1 game after 0-4 start without him starting.
2007 Titans make playoffs in his 2nd year. Lose to Chargers in Wild Card Round.

i don't know what he has to worry about as far as pressure. he needs to realize that you dont just come in and pwn the league from Day One. i don't think the Tennessee media is pressuring him to do more (with so little around him) he must be doing it to himself and he needs to get over it or risk screwing up his career. one thing is for sure, he is a helluva football player and he just needs some veteran to help him along in his development. their new OC will be counted on to do that if the Titans have any dream of being relevant in 08. If the Titans find a way to make the playoffs this year with that talent, they should open up a Jeff Fisher wing of the Hall Of Fame. Just an incredible football coach....sucks he works for a scumbag like Bud.


I like how you pointed out how his play was during all seasons but 2007 and then you go and say the titans made it to the playoffs. Because we all know for damn sure they made the playoffs despite VY's play. His TD to Int ratio was just great and showed how much of a leader he was by showing the team what they were not supposed to do.