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b0ng
05-19-2008, 02:36 PM
Article found here (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=williamson_bill&id=3402791)

2. Mario Williams, DE, Houston Texans: Williams will secure Charley Casserly's legacy. Casserly's last move as Houston's general manager was to take Williams over Reggie Bush in the 2006 draft. Casselry was hammered for the decision initially, and the criticism only intensified when Williams struggled as a rookie (4½ sacks).

But Williams came on strong last season and was dominant in the final month. His 14 sacks tied for third in the NFL. This high ranking for Williams might be considered a reach by many, but this is a player who has already figured out the NFL and will be dominant for the next several years.

Love by ESPN. Who knew. I guess they don't all hate him now?

I guess this question is worth it now:

Is Mario Williams getting a lot of love for a really good second half of 2007? Is he teetering on going from draft bust, to over-hyped?

barrett
05-19-2008, 02:42 PM
Love It!!!!

Goldensilence
05-19-2008, 02:47 PM
Secure what legacy?

I hate how ESPN makes it seem like Mario Williams was Casserly's swan song/ final gift for Houston. What about the past bungled Picks or trades? I guess when shoved in their face the golden boy failed miserably and with Vince Struggling they have no choice but to in a round about way say they were wrong.

barrett
05-19-2008, 02:52 PM
either way, he was the GM at the time. It was his last draft. It was a great draft. He doesn't deserve all of the credit. He may not deserve any of it. But we don't know that.

What we DO know is that Mario Williams and the Houston Texans are beginning to see the light at the end of the expansion franchise / "habitual looser" / "draft F-ups" tunnel! and the Media is recognizing it!

El Tejano
05-19-2008, 02:57 PM
I also hate how they say we passed up Reggie for Mario. They hardly acknowledge the fact that most of us in Houston feel we passed up Vince for Mario.

But no matter which way you look at it, we made the right choice.

beerlover
05-19-2008, 03:02 PM
I beleive Mario was Kubiak & his coaches pick. Casserly was initially for Bush & Dan Reeves, who was brought in as consultant was in favour of dumping Carr & taking QB, Vince Young. in the end & with the signing issue resovled going with Mario they came to a consensus opinion, at least thats how I rememeberd it :shades:

kravix
05-19-2008, 03:10 PM
It should be a pretty easy assumption to to say that CC had squat to do with that draft and the picks based upon his previous drafting record. He had two good draft picks and 3-4 more ok draft picks in 4 years.

Since Kubes has been here we have had more good draft picks than CC could probably claim for his entire career.

barrett
05-19-2008, 03:19 PM
It should be a pretty easy assumption to to say that CC had squat to do with that draft and the picks based upon his previous drafting record. He had two good draft picks and 3-4 more ok draft picks in 4 years.

Since Kubes has been here we have had more good draft picks than CC could probably claim for his entire career.

it's very easy to make assumptions. that's the problem.

i'm in no way sticking up for CC. I'm just saying, who cares... Mario is getting credit, the Texans are getting credit.

ChampionTexan
05-19-2008, 03:21 PM
I also hate how they say we passed up Reggie for Mario. They hardly acknowledge the fact that most of us in Houston feel we passed up Vince for Mario.

But no matter which way you look at it, we made the right choice.

I disagree with that. VY supporters were definitely more vocal, and more hardcore about it, but in terms of numbers, I think Reggie still had it. (If for no other reason than the early renewing of Carr).

NBT
05-19-2008, 03:28 PM
Casserly was weak. He let Capers make all the decisions when he was the head coach, and in the one draft where Kubiak was the head coach, Casserly gets all the credit because he was the G.M.? Jeez what a load!

b0ng
05-19-2008, 03:30 PM
I think you guys are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, whether Williams was a Casserly pick or not, I didn't see too many of the other NFL franchises and try to swoop up the smart GM who picked Williams.

I think that's the most telling part of this whole saga.

Texans_Chick
05-19-2008, 03:39 PM
I beleive Mario was Kubiak & his coaches pick. Casserly was initially for Bush & Dan Reeves, who was brought in as consultant was in favour of dumping Carr & taking QB, Vince Young. in the end & with the signing issue resovled going with Mario they came to a consensus opinion, at least thats how I rememeberd it :shades:

I believe that from at least what John McClain has said, Casserly wanted to announce the Bush pick early. There were some media leaks that said Bush was the guy. Reeves said why decide so early, let's make sure. Kubiak said same thing.

Casserly ended up saying Mario was the top defensive player on the board and Bush was the top offensive player on the board, and we went offense. Casserly was very high on Mario, saying he graded out higher than Julius Peppers.

Reeves said that the Texans should look at Young, even if they were keeping Carr. This, of course, made little sense salary cap wise to invest that much money in the QB position. If Reeves thought Carr was an issue and had lost the lockerroom, he should have pushed the organization not to keep him. Reeves specifically said that Carr was not a problem for the organization.

Mario was not on Reeves radar.

tulexan
05-19-2008, 06:44 PM
I believe there was a Sporting News article that was inside the draft room for the Texans and said that Casserly was high on Mario very early and Kubiak fell in love with his potential after watching film on him.

I know the article has been posted in this forum before.

tulexan
05-19-2008, 06:46 PM
found it

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=88233

Lucky
05-19-2008, 07:40 PM
I believe there was a Sporting News article that was inside the draft room for the Texans and said that Casserly was high on Mario very early and Kubiak fell in love with his potential after watching film on him.
A lot of people were high on Mario. When he entered the draft, Mario was considered a top 5 pick. Really, nowhere in the article does it state that Casserly didn't want to announce early that Bush was the pick. Coaching candidates were asked to look at tapes of Bush and describe how they would implement him in the offense. Attner wasn't around the Texans offices for those discussions.

From the Attner piece in TSN:
For Kubiak, this decision about No. 1 will become a watershed moment in his early months as a head coach. He already made one franchise-shaping choice when he advised owner Bob McNair and Casserly to pay David Carr an $8 million bonus to retain the quarterback's services for at least the next three years.The decision to keep Carr was made before the Texans interviewed coaching candidates. That wasn't Kubiak's decision. That he agreed in keeping Carr was probably a prerequisite in landing the job.

Not that Kubiak was being dishonest in his desire to keep Carr on, or in his final evaluation of Mario being the pick. Just that he didn't have autonomy in making those choices. In the end, they were Bob McNair's calls.

aj.
05-19-2008, 07:48 PM
In terms of Casserly's legacy, if he gets any of the credit for the Mario selection then he also deserves some of the blame for the litany of distastrous coaching and player personnel decisions during the first four years of his tenure.

I'm sure Casserly had a vote on the Mario pick but I think McNair had learned enough by April '06 to not allow his lame duck GM to unilateraly or even highly influence a 50 million dollar decision for him that would affect his organization for years to come.

Kubiak said during his first ever public speaking event as the Texans HC that Carr was his guy - meaning it was a condition of getting the job. It would take McNair several more months to finally see the light.

BornOrange
05-19-2008, 08:15 PM
Another big factor, if not the deciding factor, was the controversy about Bush's relationship with several agents while he was in college. I think Casserly and McNair were concerned that would blow up much more than it has so far and they didn't want to be associated with the first Heisman winner who had to forfeit his trophy.

Combined with the difficulty that they were having in negotiating a contract with Bush, Williams started looking like a much safer pick.

Kaiser Toro
05-20-2008, 09:33 AM
If we would have taken Bush we would have had ~27m wrapped up in three offensive skill position players (Carr, AJ and Bush) for four years on a 102M cap that does go up incrementally. We would have a lopsided differential between the offensive and defensive units to the tune of ~62m vs ~40M.

In essence, if we took Bush the Texans situation would have been more like the 2005 Texan campaign for many more years.

FWIW, I was told by a very reputable source that Kubiak wanted Bush when he joined the Texans.

nunusguy
05-20-2008, 09:55 AM
Another big factor, if not the deciding factor, was the controversy about Bush's relationship with several agents while he was in college. I think Casserly and McNair were concerned that would blow up much more than it has so far and they didn't want to be associated with the first Heisman winner who had to forfeit his trophy.

Combined with the difficulty that they were having in negotiating a contract with Bush, Williams started looking like a much safer pick.
That's the version of the Texans & their 2006 Draft saga that I've always understood to be so far as how it all went down with Mario & Bush.
Possibly choosing VY was preempted by a pre-draft decision by McNair & Casserly to retain Carr.
As far as trading the pick, I dunno about the latest version of the story about any opportunities the Texans may have had ? I've heard the Jets
were interested because they wanted Bush, but others are skeptical they
or any other team made a bona fide offer to the Texans for their top pick ?

dalemurphy
05-20-2008, 11:43 AM
If we would have taken Bush we would have had ~27m wrapped up in three offensive skill position players (Carr, AJ and Bush) for four years on a 102M cap that does go up incrementally. We would have a lopsided differential between the offensive and defensive units to the tune of ~62m vs ~40M.

In essence, if we took Bush the Texans situation would have been more like the 2005 Texan campaign for many more years.

FWIW, I was told by a very reputable source that Kubiak wanted Bush when he joined the Texans.

Well, Kubiak himself said he wanted Bush. It was later into the process after watch Mario on tape that Kubiak became intrigued by him and approached Casserly about his opinion. After the two met about Mario, that's when the Mario Williams train started moving.

Anyway, that's the story that Kubiak tells. I think Casserly was trying to trade out of the spot the whole time- that's why they were floating VYoung's name out there for so long as well as RBush.

El Tejano
05-20-2008, 12:24 PM
As far as I'm concerned, we got Mario and screw the rest.

ObsiWan
05-20-2008, 09:28 PM
I also hate how they say we passed up Reggie for Mario. They hardly acknowledge the fact that most of us in Houston feel we passed up Vince for Mario.

But no matter which way you look at it, we made the right choice.

When you consider that we had re-upped HWSRU (He Who Shall Remain Unnamed) prior to the draft, any thoughts about drafting a QB went out the window. So the only logical alternative to Mario was Bush.

barrett
05-21-2008, 01:52 AM
who was the forth best "super greatest player ever to take your franchise to the superbowl in one year" after those three guys?

mexican_texan
05-31-2008, 08:33 PM
Don't forget that when the FO was getting blasted, Casserly went on the record and said "blame me, I'm the one that made the decision."