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76Texan
05-15-2008, 04:54 PM
From Football Outsiders
Most Targets per Charted Pass (2007-thru 13 games)
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2007/12/21/ramblings/stat-analysis/5920/

Here are the players most often listed as DEFENDER1 compared to the number of passes charted for their defense. We can’t really do fewest targets without correcting for games played and a bunch of other stuff that takes lots of time.

Jacques Reeves, the Human Target, DAL: 21%
Nate Clements, SF: 20%
Will Allen, MIA: 20%
Ike Taylor, PIT: 20%
Marcus Trufant, SEA: 19%
Sam Madison, NYG: 19%
Kelvin Hayden, IND: 19%
Kelly Jennings, SEA: 19%
Dre’ Bly (aka “away from Champ Bailey”), DEN: 18%
Nick Harper, TEN: 18%
DeAngelo Hall, ATL: 18%
Darelle Revis, NYJ, 18%

...
Holy smoke, they call him the human target!:bat:

76Texan
05-15-2008, 05:13 PM
Eastern Kentucky had 6 All-Americans in the FCS.

4 of them were HMs.
The safety (a Junior) was on the third team.
And the other CB made first team.

Where were Antwaun Molden?

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/stat/IAA-07-team.htm

nero THE zero
05-15-2008, 05:16 PM
Jacques Reeves, the Human Target, DAL: 21%
Nate Clements, SF: 20%
Will Allen, MIA: 20%
Ike Taylor, PIT: 20%
Marcus Trufant, SEA: 19%
Sam Madison, NYG: 19%
Kelvin Hayden, IND: 19%
Kelly Jennings, SEA: 19%
Dre’ Bly (aka “away from Champ Bailey”), DEN: 18%
Nick Harper, TEN: 18%
DeAngelo Hall, ATL: 18%
Darelle Revis, NYJ, 18%

Those are some names I wouldn't particularly mind being grouped with if I were Reeves.

76Texan
05-15-2008, 05:53 PM
At any rate, I hope Molden will keep improving.
He looks like a late bloomer who grew from 5'9 from HS to around 6'2 now.
And he wasn't concentrating solely on football.
Perhaps he will be contributing for us.
I'm rooting for him.

Thorn
05-15-2008, 06:02 PM
I can understand signing Reeves, but I can't understand the money they gave him. Obviously they see something in him we don't.

76Texan
05-15-2008, 06:04 PM
I can understand signing Reeves, but I can't understand the money they gave him. Obviously they see something in him we don't.

I'm with you, Thorn!

D-ReK
05-15-2008, 06:08 PM
I can understand signing Reeves, but I can't understand the money they gave him. Obviously they see something in him we don't.

His deal is only for $4M guaranteed, so if he ends up sucking, he can just be cut after a couple of years with little ill effects. If he stays with the team and develops like the organization thinks he can, he will earn every penny of his contract.

Errant Hothy
05-15-2008, 06:15 PM
From Football Outsiders
Most Targets per Charted Pass (2007-thru 13 games)
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2007/12/21/ramblings/stat-analysis/5920/

Here are the players most often listed as DEFENDER1 compared to the number of passes charted for their defense. We can’t really do fewest targets without correcting for games played and a bunch of other stuff that takes lots of time.

Jacques Reeves, the Human Target, DAL: 21%
Nate Clements, SF: 20%
Will Allen, MIA: 20%
Ike Taylor, PIT: 20%
Marcus Trufant, SEA: 19%
Sam Madison, NYG: 19%
Kelvin Hayden, IND: 19%
Kelly Jennings, SEA: 19%
Dre’ Bly (aka “away from Champ Bailey”), DEN: 18%
Nick Harper, TEN: 18%
DeAngelo Hall, ATL: 18%
Darelle Revis, NYJ, 18%

...
Holy smoke, they call him the human target!:bat:

Maybe I'm missing something, but doesn't this just mean that of all the pass plays against the Boys D the intended target was covered by Reeves 21 % of the time?

There is no mention of his succes rate or anything, just that times tended to throw his way more often then any other Cb in the NFL, which means he couldn't have been that bad cause the Cowboys went 13-3 with a respectable D.

dalemurphy
05-15-2008, 06:18 PM
Maybe I'm missing something, but doesn't this just mean that of all the pass plays against the Boys D the intended target was covered by Reeves 21 % of the time?

There is no mention of his succes rate or anything, just that times tended to throw his way more often then any other Cb in the NFL, which means he couldn't have been that bad cause the Cowboys went 13-3 with a respectable D.

completion % was between 56 and 57. He gave up a number of big plays but he wasn't abused. He's an athletic, young player that is a borderline starter in the league with opportunity for improvement. Why would fans have a problem with this signing? Better yet, who would have been a better signing?

HJam72
05-15-2008, 06:21 PM
Just sounds to me like he was a rookie starter, got picked on a lot, and the Cowboy fans have no patience--so, he has a bad rep for now.

76Texan
05-15-2008, 06:29 PM
I sure hope Reeves turn out OK.

The fact remains that the Cowboys did not tender him a contract in order for them to draft Mike Jenkins.

ObsiWan
05-15-2008, 06:32 PM
Cowboy fans ought to be used to DBs who can't cover; otherwise how does one explain Roy Williams..??
:D

Errant Hothy
05-15-2008, 06:34 PM
I sure hope Reeves turn out OK.

The fact remains that the Cowboys did not tender him a contract in order for them to draft Mike Jenkins.

You got any sources for that?

The Cowboys had no idea that Jenkins was going to fall to them, they were figuring on having to choose from Talib and Cason.

Reeves is better then most in Dalas give him credit for. Teams did not throw to Newman's side that much, and for help over the top he has Hamlin (decent but not all that) and the absolute worst cover SS in the history of the NFL in Roy Williams.

I'd love to hear your alternative plan btw.

76Texan
05-15-2008, 06:40 PM
Maybe I shouldn't use the term "in order to".

The fact remains that:
1- They did not offer him a contract.
2. They drafted a CB in the first round.

As for alternatives:
1. The Texans could resign Hutchins for less, and target a CB higher.
2. They could also trade down a little further and pick up an additional CB, like Lowery in the fourth.

Errant Hothy
05-15-2008, 06:45 PM
Maybe I shouldn't use the term "in order to".

The fact remains that:
1- They did not offer him a contract.
2. They drafted a CB in the first round.

As for alternatives:
1. The Texans could resign Hutchins for less, and target a CB higher.
2. They could also trade down a little further and pick up an additional CB, like Lowery in the fourth.

Neccesary footnotes:
1 - The Cowboys had 2 1st round picks
2 - If the Texans had traded down again they would not have Duane Brown on the team as San Deigo was primmed to take him.
3 - The Texans did pick up an additional CB in the draft, Molden.
4 - The Texans did not have the money to target a higher CB in FA, espically if they had resigned Hutchins before making any moves.

aj.
05-15-2008, 06:46 PM
His deal is only for $4M guaranteed, so if he ends up sucking, he can just be cut after a couple of years with little ill effects. .

His deal is $6 miillion guaranteed. $4 million signing bonus already received and another $2 million in roster bonus hitting sometime in '08. He may have already earned his roster bonus. In many cases (like Schaub) they are payable on May 15. In other cases (like Ahman Green) they are prorated game by game.

Add to the $6 million his base of $1 million this year and $2.5 next year and in your scenario he would earn $9.5 million of McNair money over the first 'couple' of years of his deal.

His cap numbers are $3.8 million this year and $3.3 next year. If cut in the '09-'10 off-season, he will count $2.4 million in dead money on the '10 cap.

aj.
05-15-2008, 06:47 PM
His deal is only for $4M guaranteed, so if he ends up sucking, he can just be cut after a couple of years with little ill effects. .

His deal is $6 miillion guaranteed. $4 million signing bonus already received and another $2 million in roster bonus hitting sometime in '08. He may have already earned his roster bonus. In many cases (like Schaub) initial roster bonuses are payable on May 15. In other cases (like Ahman Green) they are prorated game by game.

Add to the $6 million, his base of $1 million this year and $2.5 next year and in your scenario he would earn $9.5 million of McNair money over the first 'couple' of years of his deal.

His cap numbers are $3.8 million this year and $3.3 next year. If cut in the '09-'10 off-season, he will count $2.4 million in dead money on the '10 cap.

JCTexan
05-15-2008, 06:50 PM
completion % was between 56 and 57. He gave up a number of big plays but he wasn't abused. He's an athletic, young player that is a borderline starter in the league with opportunity for improvement. Why would fans have a problem with this signing? Better yet, who would have been a better signing?

I don't have a problem with the signing... but if Reeves plays like Cowboy fans think he plays, and Dunta returns to form (like I expect) and Molden pans out (like I expect he will) I think that would have been alot of money for a #4 CB.

thunderkyss
05-15-2008, 07:06 PM
That's really setting the bar high for a 3rd round cornerback don't you think?? Jaques is young, with experience, and is coming from a winning team.

Right now, Jacques is arguably our best cornerback.

We've got to hope Dunta comes back healthy.

We've got to hope Bennet can beat Jacques out to start.

We've got to hope Molden can earn a starting spot...

$4 million doesn't really sound like a lot of money, when the odds are that he will very likely be starting opposite a second year second day pick, or a rookie second day pick.

PHAROAH
05-15-2008, 07:13 PM
Give him a chance guys look the cowboys played a lot of zone coverages and we all know that the cowboys safeties were horrible except for Ken Hamlin. Jacques Reeves was a rookie starter so you tell me what rookie starting corner doesn't get beat? Jacque has good size and speed that the texans look for in cornerbacks and maybe the flaws that Jon Hoke and Ray Rhodes saw on film probably thinks that they can be corrected by working on his technique.

GuerillaBlack
05-15-2008, 07:15 PM
I like our CB core. If we can get a healthy Dunta back, we have: DRob, Fred Bennett, Reeves, and Molden. Pretty good core from what I am reading/watching.

PHAROAH
05-15-2008, 07:17 PM
I still think that the Texans will bring in another Cornerback before training camp is over and I look for them to go after a guy like CB- Andre Dyson who has good speed and tons of starting experience. Guys lets calm down and let use get to mini-camp before you write the guy off as trash.

thunderkyss
05-15-2008, 07:21 PM
Jacques Reeves was a rookie starter so you tell me what rookie starting corner doesn't get beat?

Where is this coming from?? Jacques been in the league for 4 years now.

The Pencil Neck
05-15-2008, 07:22 PM
Give him a chance guys look the cowboys played a lot of zone coverages and we all know that the cowboys safeties were horrible except for Ken Hamlin. Jacques Reeves was a rookie starter so you tell me what rookie starting corner doesn't get beat? Jacque has good size and speed that the texans look for in cornerbacks and maybe the flaws that Jon Hoke and Ray Rhodes saw on film probably thinks that they can be corrected by working on his technique.

Jacque Reeves was not a rookie last year. He was in his 4th year.

JCTexan
05-15-2008, 07:31 PM
That's really setting the bar high for a 3rd round cornerback don't you think?? Jaques is young, with experience, and is coming from a winning team.

Right now, Jacques is arguably our best cornerback.

We've got to hope Dunta comes back healthy.

We've got to hope Bennet can beat Jacques out to start.

We've got to hope Molden can earn a starting spot...

$4 million doesn't really sound like a lot of money, when the odds are that he will very likely be starting opposite a second year second day pick, or a rookie second day pick.

Yeah, I'm probably setting the bar alittle too high on Molden, but I wasn't expecting Bennett to do as good as he did last year. So Bennett to improve and for Smith and Kubiak to draft another stud CB in Molden doesn't seem unrealistic to me. And Dunta seems determined to get back on the field... so if Molden plays better than Reeves I could see Reeves being the #4 corner. But with his talent I sure would be thrilled if he was.

thunderkyss
05-15-2008, 07:39 PM
Yeah, I'm probably setting the bar alittle too high on Molden, but I wasn't expecting Bennett to do as good as he did last year. So Bennett to improve and for Smith and Kubiak to draft another stud CB in Molden doesn't seem unrealistic to me. And Dunta seems determined to get back on the field... so if Molden plays better than Reeves I could see Reeves being the #4 corner. But with his talent I sure would be thrilled if he was.

My point is that the Texans signed Jacques with no idea who they would end up with in the draft. Dunta on IR, and Bennet.

$4 million is money well spent.

Maddict5
05-15-2008, 08:02 PM
he did say 'rookie starter' ie first year of actually starting.... not 'starting rookie'- starting 1st yr player

PHAROAH
05-15-2008, 08:20 PM
Jacque Reeves was not a rookie last year. He was in his 4th year.
I said he was a rookie starter (First Time) not an NFL ROOKIE!!!!

edo783
05-15-2008, 09:32 PM
My point is that the Texans signed Jacques with no idea who they would end up with in the draft. Dunta on IR, and Bennet.

$4 million is money well spent.

Exactly. And the guy is supposed to be a better press guy than a zone guy. I suspect he will be at the worst an average starting corner and for the moment I can live with that. And the money is about right for an average starting CB in the NFL.

BigBull17
05-15-2008, 10:14 PM
Neccesary footnotes:
1 - The Cowboys had 2 1st round picks
2 - If the Texans had traded down again they would not have Duane Brown on the team as San Deigo was primmed to take him.
3 - The Texans did pick up an additional CB in the draft, Molden.
4 - The Texans did not have the money to target a higher CB in FA, espically if they had resigned Hutchins before making any moves.

I know your not the one saying it, but why the rampant love for Non freakin Hutchings... Its VON HUTCHINGS! He isnt what you call a lock down CB, hard hitting CB, FS, SS, any saftey. He was stop gap, and when they got a chance to get a young guy with upside for not alot of money guaranteed, they took it. Then, as a secondary precaution, they drafted another. What more do you want? They are handling a weakness on the team the best they can, outside of giving up crazy jack for Samuels, Nannnanmnsdajbgdis Ashmoungekmmsnl, or picks for a locker room cancer named Deangello Hall.

The Pencil Neck
05-16-2008, 12:42 AM
I said he was a rookie starter (First Time) not an NFL ROOKIE!!!!

I don't think you should have worded it like that. It's too easy to misinterpret what you meant. You should have said first-time starter or something like that. Because to me and at least one other person, a rookie starter is a rookie who's starting not a veteran who's starting for the first time.

nero THE zero
05-16-2008, 07:43 AM
That's really setting the bar high for a 3rd round cornerback don't you think?? Jaques is young, with experience, and is coming from a winning team.

Right now, Jacques is arguably our best cornerback.

We've got to hope Dunta comes back healthy.

We've got to hope Bennet can beat Jacques out to start.

We've got to hope Molden can earn a starting spot...

$4 million doesn't really sound like a lot of money, when the odds are that he will very likely be starting opposite a second year second day pick, or a rookie second day pick.

Actually Bennett is our #1 CB. Fred was playing the left side of the field (Dunta's side) in mini-camp and said that Kubiak had called him and told him that he was our #1 corner this year. So, the onus would be on Reeves to beat out Fred once Dunta returns.

Hervoyel
05-16-2008, 08:29 AM
If Reeves turns out to be a truly average starting CB and can do nothing more spectacular than do his job in an adequat manner then we should send Rick Smith & Co. a muffin basket or something for taking care of our CB shortage at this price point while still taking something other than CB with our first rounder.

Reeves and Bennett are together a good enough starting pair IF our defensive line can generate some pressure AND Demps keeps playing like he did at the end of last season. They should be able to hold the fort down until Robinson gets back ASSUMING we don't get torn up by the injury bug. Once we get Dunta back the Texans will be as deep at CB with quality players as they've been since Aaron Glenn left.

I'm good with that.

Lucky
05-16-2008, 09:05 AM
Actually Bennett is our #1 CB. Fred was playing the left side of the field (Dunta's side) in mini-camp...
NTZ, I know you are just reporting what's been printed, but Robinson didn't play on the defensive left side in '07. Dunta played RCB (on the offense's left side) last year. Just as he had his rookie season with Aaron Glenn on the opposite side. Faggins played LCB until the Raider game, when Bennett replaced him in the lineup.

I don't know whether Bennett was playing Dunta's side or not. Usually, a #1 WR (or Z receiver) lines up on the right side of the formation. That means the LCB usually faces the top receiver. Despite that, the Texans moved Robinson to the RCB spot last year. Maybe because he was more comfortable, maybe because they planned to roll coverages to the other side.

Whatever the reason, Robinson was having a stellar year prior to his devastating injury. Of course, Faggins was getting murdered on the opposite side. Bennett played LCB from the Oakland game on, while Hutchins eventually moved into the RCB spot. So the question I have, is Bennett staying at LCB? Or is he playing Dunta's RCB spot? Thanks to the shoddy reporting we get on the Texans from the local media, we probably won't know until we eyeball them at training camp.

HOU-TEX
05-16-2008, 09:33 AM
NTZ, I know you are just reporting what's been printed, but Robinson didn't play on the defensive left side in '07. Dunta played RCB (on the offense's left side) last year. Just as he had his rookie season with Aaron Glenn on the opposite side. Faggins played LCB until the Raider game, when Bennett replaced him in the lineup.

I don't know whether Bennett was playing Dunta's side or not. Usually, a #1 WR (or Z receiver) lines up on the right side of the formation. That means the LCB usually faces the top receiver. Despite that, the Texans moved Robinson to the RCB spot last year. Maybe because he was more comfortable, maybe because they planned to roll coverages to the other side.

Whatever the reason, Robinson was having a stellar year prior to his devastating injury. Of course, Faggins was getting murdered on the opposite side. Bennett played LCB from the Oakland game on, while Hutchins eventually moved into the RCB spot. So the question I have, is Bennett staying at LCB? Or is he playing Dunta's RCB spot? Thanks to the shoddy reporting we get on the Texans from the local media, we probably won't know until we eyeball them at training camp.

IMO, we should stay status quo. I reckon I'm old school by saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Meaning only fix what's broke (RCB). We can all agree Bennett did well as our LCB, correct? So plug Reeves in as our RCB to start TC and see how it works out.

If we know it works...leave it. That goes for moving Winston, Pitts or Spencer around on the Oline too.

:fans:

Lucky
05-16-2008, 09:45 AM
IMO, we should stay status quo. I reckon I'm old school by saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Meaning only fix what's broke (RCB). We can all agree Bennett did well as our LCB, correct? So plug Reeves in as our RCB to start TC and see how it works out.
I see your point. But, what side does Reeves play better? I think he mainly played at LCB last year, but I'm not the most avid Cowboy fan. I think this is something they'll have to work out in camp. I'm really interested in who will play the slot receiver until Dunta returns.

HOU-TEX
05-16-2008, 09:59 AM
I see your point. But, what side does Reeves play better? I think he mainly played at LCB last year, but I'm not the most avid Cowboy fan. I think this is something they'll have to work out in camp. I'm really interested in who will play the slot receiver until Dunta returns.

Yeah, I'm not up on the Cowboys either, but iirc he was more of a nickelback, right? Or at least he was up until someone got hurt.

I'm with you. Training camp should iron everything out, but figure they'll go into camp status quo except Reeves on the right side.

Hmm, I guess it really depends how Molden does in camp. IMO, Fletch should go into camp as our #3 CB. I'd rather not see Petey near our defense for now on.

nero THE zero
05-16-2008, 10:08 AM
NTZ, I know you are just reporting what's been printed, but Robinson didn't play on the defensive left side in '07. Dunta played RCB (on the offense's left side) last year. Just as he had his rookie season with Aaron Glenn on the opposite side. Faggins played LCB until the Raider game, when Bennett replaced him in the lineup.

I don't know whether Bennett was playing Dunta's side or not. Usually, a #1 WR (or Z receiver) lines up on the right side of the formation. That means the LCB usually faces the top receiver. Despite that, the Texans moved Robinson to the RCB spot last year. Maybe because he was more comfortable, maybe because they planned to roll coverages to the other side.

Whatever the reason, Robinson was having a stellar year prior to his devastating injury. Of course, Faggins was getting murdered on the opposite side. Bennett played LCB from the Oakland game on, while Hutchins eventually moved into the RCB spot. So the question I have, is Bennett staying at LCB? Or is he playing Dunta's RCB spot? Thanks to the shoddy reporting we get on the Texans from the local media, we probably won't know until we eyeball them at training camp.

I stand corrected. That's what you get for taking the Chron for its word.

Regardless, Bennett did say Kubiak called him and said he has to step up and be out #1 corner this year. So, take that FWIW You'd assume that means he'd be lining up on the left.

Honoring Earl 34
05-16-2008, 10:08 AM
I think Reeves was a nice insurance policy for Dunta . Reeves has something that Bennett has but Petey and the others don't ... speed .

Molden is a great athlete that they think they can coach up . I put my money on they inquired about his being coachable .

Lucky
05-16-2008, 10:21 AM
Regardless, Bennett did say Kubiak called him and said he has to step up and be out #1 corner this year. So, take that FWIW
I do think that's interesting. As I said, many teams put their top CB on the defensive left side. The Broncos and Champ Bailey, for one. Some teams keep their top CB on the oppostion's #1 WR. I don't think the Texans will do that, as Richard Smith is trying to give the offense a generic look pre-snap, but who's to say for sure.

Sometimes, photos or film clips out of the mini-camps will help decipher these questions. I was looking for through some to determine where Frye was playing on the o-line. I found squat. They're being very secretive at Reliant Park. Oh for the good ol' days, when Casserly would spill the beans.

GP
05-16-2008, 10:42 AM
You guys are wayyy over-reacting.

We have Alex Gibbs.

badboy
05-16-2008, 10:56 AM
You guys are wayyy over-reacting.

We have Alex Gibbs.Even more our mascot is the bull!