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View Full Version : Carr going long??? How can he?


Marcus
12-12-2004, 04:14 PM
Did you hear that stupid color commentator yammering about why Carr didn't go up top the entire game today?

Well, if Dwight Freeney wasn't making Seth Wand his personal b***h on every single friggin pass play, then maybe Carr could have a little time to look down field. Todd Wade wasn't doing that much better against Mathis. But that Wand/Freeney matchup was a horrible thing to watch.

Hervoyel
12-12-2004, 04:16 PM
Yes it was, I hope Wand is learning while he's getting used by people and something good comes from this.

TexSon
12-12-2004, 04:24 PM
Regardless, we need to get Andre involved. How do we run 7 reverses against GB, but none today? Where is that quick pass to AJ? Where is the quick slant- that lets AJ run after the catch. Where are the TE's?

TexSon
12-12-2004, 04:35 PM
I realize that Indy has very fast ends- but when they are keying in on Carr there is no reason to not run a reverse to AJ. At the very worst it makes the D hesitate just a little bit, and AJ is a good enough athelete to make something happen.
My problem is that we managed to get about 3 receptions to our wide outs and TE's. That is absolutely unconscionable when you have somebody like AJ on your team- FIND A WAY TO WORK THEM INTO THE GAME.
Also, since we get no production out of the TE's anyway, why did we not stick them over to help Wand. He was obviously getting abused.

Fiddy
12-12-2004, 04:38 PM
its called doubling Freeney with a RB/TE and then blocking down on Mathis with a roll out to the right where AJ is streaking down the field...

Fiddy
12-12-2004, 05:01 PM
I nominatee fiddy as our defensive coordinator! Yeah sure we do that and some unknown LB starts sacking Carr. Wand should be able to handle 1-1 against Freeney. Actually this is good for the young man.Do you mean offensive??? Just wondering because I would happily accept it. lol.

When you play against Cover 2, the LBs are not going to come on the blitz because that would leave a part of the field empty. The Colts run Cover 2 a lot so their LBs wont come up and sack Carr...

rhc564
12-12-2004, 05:14 PM
idonno: ...ok, so Carr got pressure-- he gets pressure every game. Thus, we play
it close to the vest and don't even try to score. We had the Colts on the
run when DD was moving the chains, which would have been the perfect
time to go deep. Did we? No, we didn't even try. Folks, that is Dom Capers
football. It's a philosophy. It cost him his job in Carolina. We can change
this and we can change that as far as players but it won't matter--if you
never call the play or at least try the play, what changes. Do we need a
bunch of new people to obtain the Texan's goal of '2 yds and a cloud of dust.'

Marcus
12-12-2004, 05:21 PM
its called doubling Freeney with a RB/TE and then blocking down on Mathis with a roll out to the right where AJ is streaking down the field...

Yeah, that'll work. :whew

Having to use up 5 or 6 of your people to block their 4 down linemen, and you wonder why our receivers are never open?

I'm as frustrated as anyone that Domanick Davis seems to be the only receiver that gets open. But more and more, I'm understanding why that's the case.

Fiddy
12-12-2004, 05:24 PM
Having to use up 5 or 6 of your people to block their 4 down linemen, and you wonder why our receivers are never open?then you overload one the right side of the defense so there is more WR than defenders. Thats how you beat a zone, you overload one side....

Marcus
12-12-2004, 06:00 PM
It doesn't matter how much you attempt to overload a side. AJ is going to draw double or triple coverage no matter what. But where are the other receivers? Again, what does it matter if Carr doesn't have the time to look for them?

Use last week's game against the Jets for example. Carr actually had good protection, even though Carr played lousy. But even playing lousy, he still managed to get it to AJ, or at least threw it up for AJ to go get, even though he was double covered. Why? Because he had the time. The OL was giving adequate pass protection.

Not so against the Colts.

NederlandTexan
12-12-2004, 06:17 PM
Last week Billy Volek launched three TD passes against this same Colts D. Passes of 48, 28, and 48 yards. Our longest pass of the day was for 19 yards. :confused: I guess our O-line IS that bad.

Vinny
12-12-2004, 06:31 PM
Yes it is.... between Wand and Pitts. BIGGG weakness...why Carr runs 99.9% to the right. Ever seen Carr run to the left? I expect wand to bulk up next seasonCarr scrambles to the right because he is right handed.

edo783
12-12-2004, 07:34 PM
There has been a fair amount of speculation on Carr's throwing side arm and apparent lack of arm strength lately. Perhaps there is a reason nothing deep was tried today. Purly speculation on my part, but his passes have NOT looked very good for several weeks. They looked pretty darn good the first 4-5 games of the season and have looked bad for the last 4-5. Might just be in a slump, but he just looks bad out there at the moment.

Vinny
12-12-2004, 07:42 PM
lol... uh no.. ...Um. uh yes. Lefty's scramble to the left so they can throw the ball without twisting around and resetting. Right handed QB's scramble to the right for the same reason.

HJam72
12-12-2004, 09:54 PM
It's very obvious that Carr has no faith in his pass protection at all and I don't blame him. Sometimes he looks like he's headed that way knowing that he's going to have to in a few seconds anyway.

Also, no he can't throw long. The only way he's going to throw long in that game is if he takes the sack and gets back up and chunks one.

Furthermore, running a reverse would have only gotten AJ tackled for a 5 yd. loss by the DE. I'd rather have DD run between left tackle and left guard, with the DE quite possibly on the outside looking in (and backwards).

HJam72
12-12-2004, 10:02 PM
There has been a fair amount of speculation on Carr's throwing side arm and apparent lack of arm strength lately. Perhaps there is a reason nothing deep was tried today. Purly speculation on my part, but his passes have NOT looked very good for several weeks. They looked pretty darn good the first 4-5 games of the season and have looked bad for the last 4-5. Might just be in a slump, but he just looks bad out there at the moment.

Did anybody else notice that the touchdown pass to Wells was a very low sidearm throw? I swear it looked like it passed 3 or 4 players at below head level on the way to Wells. It was pretty slick at the time, but that just isn't gonna work.

TexSon
12-12-2004, 10:27 PM
Furthermore, running a reverse would have only gotten AJ tackled for a 5 yd. loss by the DE. I'd rather have DD run between left tackle and left guard, with the DE quite possibly on the outside looking in (and backwards).

Maybe. But the fact remains that AJ was criminally under used today, and really at times throughout the season. My issue is not that they didn't run a reverse, I was only pointing out that we will run a play or certain plays until they are DOA, and then not use them for long periods of time- even stretches of games.
The point is we have a huge playmaker that we did not even try to get involved in the offense. We did not do anything to make the defense hesitate-we just allow them to pin their ears back and abuse the oline and Carr. When the Colts decided to not allow DD to beat them they were stopping him in the backfield for a loss. When they were sacking Carr mercilessly with a mere four-man rush we were losing yards. What's the harm in trying to put the ball in your biggest playmakers hands and hope he can make something happen?

kuno
12-12-2004, 11:49 PM
You cant beat a Cover 2 by overloading a side. The fact will still remain that the QB has to find the hole in that cover 2 D play and it takes time. That is why Dungy takes those fast players. They will get there before the WR find the hole. Running and playaction beats the Colts.

A fake reverse could have worked tho, it might have caused one of those DE's to pursue and bought time.

HJam72
12-13-2004, 01:28 AM
He's right, you can't beat a cover 2 by overloading like that. You beat a cover 2 by PROTECTING THE QB and hitting somebody DEEP down the MIDDLE. That and by having DD stuff it right up their gut.

I don't think you can beat a zone defense by using more receivers. It's not how many. It's where they go to. Besides, how is Carr going to check off 5 receivers? He can't check off 2 receivers right now.

Vinny
12-13-2004, 01:36 AM
Actually the number of receivers is important and has an effect on the other wr's as to the coverage seams and pockets. Defenders have to react to your action.

HJam72
12-13-2004, 01:39 AM
But wouldn't they just go to a different defense with more DBs and use a coverage 3 or 4 or whatever they needed?

Seems to me like the higher that coverage number gets the less open field there will be anywhere at all. I mean, take it to rediculous purportions. Say you've got so many receivers and DBs that the entire field is covered with them. Who's going to catch a pass? The answer is that there is no answer. I know one thing: there's gonna be a lot of people trying to catch your pass and they're not all on your team.

TexansCanes
12-13-2004, 02:55 AM
going deep would be nice, but if you can't do that just have andre run a drag. he can outrun anybody and can drag tacklers. we just have to get the ball into are best player's hand any way possible, you don't see moss or to with that few passes thrown their way. i now johnson is a humble guy and doesn't have their attitude, but he needs to get with david to find a way to get the ball in his hands, but not the same way they do it. he needs some of that miami attitude back in him.

HJam72
12-13-2004, 03:07 AM
AJ goes in motion like he's going to set up on the other side. In the middle of this, the play starts and Carr tosses the ball to him for a sweep. It's just like a sweep with DD, except that AJ can flat out run. How's that?

It would keep the DE from having time to stop the whole thing on a reverse to DD. Only problem is, it wouldn't do didly squat to improve our lack of a passing game.

TexansTrueFan
12-13-2004, 03:37 AM
i'm sorry but Carr needs more than .5 sec. of pass protection in order to throw the ball down the field ! Well ATLEAST manning didnt break the record against us :loser

TheOgre
12-13-2004, 08:48 AM
Someone mentioned that Carr may have a shoulder injury and that is why he has struggle to throw downfield and why he is throwing side armed. Anyone else here that?

ArlingtonTexan
12-13-2004, 08:56 AM
Someone mentioned that Carr may have a shoulder injury and that is why he has struggle to throw downfield and why he is throwing side armed. Anyone else here that?

If Carr is really hurt enough where he can't get the ball down the field then he does not need to play. he is better than Tony banks, but he is not a half armed Favre or McNair running out there.

HJam72
12-13-2004, 09:09 AM
If Carr is really hurt enough where he can't get the ball down the field then he does not need to play. he is better than Tony banks, but he is not a half armed Favre or McNair running out there.


I can't argue with that logic. Why risk playing Carr if he can't win anyway?

Marcus
12-13-2004, 09:36 AM
First off, the idea that Carr has a hurt shoulder doesn't hold water when you break it down. You'd hear rumblings about it during the week, which we haven't. You'd see the trainers working on it during the game, which we haven't You see, and hear, and read about it from other sources than just this message board, which we haven't. And finally, they wouldn't play him at all if they got the slightest indication that his shoulder hurting was causing him to 'favor' it, or alter his motion.

I agree that it seems as if Carr has altered his throwing style, but I don't believe he's altering it because he's forced to.

edo783
12-13-2004, 10:05 AM
The thing that led to the speculation of injury sprang from his apparent lack of arm strength the last few weeks (pure speculation) and then couple that with some very errent passes and bad passing motion it LOOKS like there MIGHT be something. Probably is just reverting to old bad habits, but the apparent lack of arm strength is a bit of a concern as that is one of his strengths. The Texans have a history of being less than forth coming on the injury front.

TheOgre
12-13-2004, 10:08 AM
What if he is lying to the staff about the injury? If a long pass is called, he may be changing the play or going with the dump off to stay in the game.

Porky
12-13-2004, 11:17 AM
I think after watching Wand get beat like a rented mule yesterday, it's time to consider an upgrade at LT. Getting beat on the speed rush is one thing, but getting bull rushed and tossed like a salad by Freeney when he outweighs him by about 40 lbs is disconcerting to say the least.

I thought the defensive game plan was very good for a change yesterday. Those guys did their job. If you hold the Colts to their lowest amount of points in the season, you have to find a way to win, which brings us to the woeful offense.

Carr has had a lousy second half. Granted his passer rating was pretty good yesterday, but anyone who watched that game with an impartial eye saw that Carr simply did not play well. Starting off with an interception is the last thing you need. They could have really put some pressure on the Dolts had they converted at the end of the first half, and then you have the 4th QTR. I actually liked the game plan to a point - I thought it made sense to try and gobble up some time, and run DD if he was going good, and he was. However, I thought as the game progressed, they needed to throw some deep seam routes as it looked like the Colts finally caught on and were stacking the line better to stop the run. They needed some play action on first downs. They totally under utilized their WR's and TE's. No passes, not even once, down the field? There is no excuse for having Derrick Armstrong not even active?? You use the running game to play keep away, control the tempo, wear the D down, etc, but you use the pass to score.

Once again, the coaches played the game as if they were scared to get blown out, not like they wanted to win. I know Fisher got his arse kicked up there in Indy, but I liked his attitude of going for it, pulling out all the stops, and pulling every string imaginable. I would trrade Capers for Fischer today. Personally, for the first time, I was sort of mad at Casserly. On Allen's show last night, he said he was "proud of the team". Huh??? Proud of the team because they didn't lose by 40 points, but only by 9?

The time for moral victories is over. I am rather disapointed that the organazation seems satisfied with some sort of perceived moral victory.

Chance_C
12-13-2004, 11:45 AM
I thought yesterday's game plan was pretty sound. The reasoning behind not going long was the cover 2, which I really can't understand. See Billy Volek. The Colts did do a good job of covering our receivers because I think 2 or 3 of the 5 sacks were coverage sacks. I though Carr had an ok game, or at least he had a few moments. I saw him look off some receivers and the whole defense went the way he was looking and then he completed the pass to the other side of the field. I saw him actually step up in the pocket (only to get sacked I might add). I saw his play action fake out the defense a few times. His accuracy has been off though, I don't question that at all. I agree though, 3 catches by AJ, 2 by Miller, 2 by Bradford, 0 for Gaffney, and an inactive Armstrong is just not gonna get it. I kept thinking, they are about to go long, and they just never did.

I think the original poster was peeved about the lack of going long, but we are either 4th or 6th in the league of pass completions over 20 yards. We do go long, we just didn't yesterday. Our longest pass and catch was to Bradford for 19 yards.

Oh, how do we get 5 false starts at home? I know Pitts had 2, Miller 1, who got the others? And Wand did get abused by Freeney. I saw Freeney just flat out bull rush him, hit him in the chest, and I swear it knocked Wand back 4 or 5 feet. All Freeney had to do was use the space he created and go straight at Carr.

Marcus
12-13-2004, 12:34 PM
I think the original poster was peeved about the lack of going long, but we are either 4th or 6th in the league of pass completions over 20 yards. We do go long, we just didn't yesterday. Our longest pass and catch was to Bradford for 19 yards.

Oh Boy! :whew

No, the 'original poster' was not peeved about the lack of going long, as the 'original poster' fully understood why they couldn't go long. What I was peeved at, was that so-called 'expert' color commentator NOT understanding it.

The Colts play a Cover 2. They are adamant about NOT giving up the big play. The only way you get a ball deep downfield to AJ, Bradford, or God himself for that matter, in a Cover 2 defense is that the QB HAS to have the time to throw.

But when the Colts 4 down linemen are making punks out of our offensive linemen, how is Carr going to have time to look downfield, much less throw it downfield into double coverage? All he had time to do was dump it off, or hand it off.

People keep using that Titans game last week where Volek threw 3 long passes for TDs in the first quarter, when they had no idea what kind of protection he had. But after that 1st quarter, it was 3 and out, 3 and out, 3 and out passing, and giving the ball back to Peyton, and allowing the Colts to BLOW THEM OUT.

I really, genuinely believe that some of you are so exasperated with the "keep it close" strategy, that you'd rather see the team get blown out, just to see Carr throw it deep.

Chance_C
12-13-2004, 01:43 PM
Well sorry Marcus. I made a mistake in referring to the "original poster", and if I could get the quote thing to work right, I would quote RHC564 on his take. He was blaming the fact that we did not go long on Dom Capers' philosophy. Said it was why he lost his job in Carolina. Read my post again. Note the first sentence where I said "I thought it was a sound game plan." That should be enough to let you know that I would rather not go long than keep it close. It's a fact, our pass protection sucked and we couldn't go long. I just thought that the way we were running the ball, we might get to chunk it up the field and let AJ go get it, but our protection broke down time after time. Our game plan was to run the football, and once again, I had no problem with that at all.