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Dallas_Texan
05-13-2008, 05:34 PM
Okam question from someone who doesn't watch UT football:

How was the rest of Okam's line at UT? Is it possible that the rest of his line made him look better, or was he the superstar on that line? Just wondering.

TexansFanatic
05-13-2008, 05:44 PM
Okam question from someone who doesn't watch UT football:

How was the rest of Okam's line at UT? Is it possible that the rest of his line made him look better, or was he the superstar on that line? Just wondering.

I'm a big Longhorn fan. I can tell you that Okam was a 5-star recruit coming out of high school and he did extremely well his first couple of years at Texas. He underwent a coaching transition that took him from being an attacking monster to being a load meant to take up space and allow the linebackers to make the plays. I believe he is one of the bigtime steals of this entire draft. Can't wait for him to prove me right.

Dallas_Texan
05-13-2008, 05:55 PM
I'm a big Longhorn fan. I can tell you that Okam was a 5-star recruit coming out of high school and he did extremely well his first couple of years at Texas. He underwent a coaching transition that took him from being an attacking monster to being a load meant to take up space and allow the linebackers to make the plays. I believe he is one of the bigtime steals of this entire draft. Can't wait for him to prove me right.

I second that!

bah007
05-13-2008, 07:11 PM
Orakpo was the best player on that line. He was injured a lot of last year after taking an illegal chop block.

But Okam's job was to take up blockers so the sub-par LBs could have a 50% chance of making a play, which they usually didn't do.

Big Lou
05-13-2008, 07:38 PM
Yeh, he was a stud the first couple of years, and then due to his change in role it really seemed to prevent him from playing to his strengths. i think if they hadn't changed the defensive scheme he could have been a first day pick on draft day.

swtbound07
05-13-2008, 08:01 PM
Orakpo was the best player on that line. He was injured a lot of last year after taking an illegal chop block.

But Okam's job was to take up blockers so the sub-par LBs could have a 50% chance of making a play, which they usually didn't do.

Bobino is ANYTHING but a sub-par linebacker.

nunusguy
05-13-2008, 08:08 PM
Was he a starter back when he was a sophomore and if so how did he match
up against an outstanding USC OLine in the Championship Rose Bowl game ?
I dunno for sure, but I seem to recall that several members of that USC interior OLine were drafted high into the NFL ?

TexanSam
05-13-2008, 08:19 PM
Bobino is ANYTHING but a sub-par linebacker.

Yeah, but guys like Robert Killebrew were.

Goldensilence
05-13-2008, 08:29 PM
For someone who had "dropped off" his senior year he posted his best statistical year.

Voted a captain by his teammates, Okam earned one of the Dr. Nasser Al-Rashid Strength and Conditioning Awards and was named one of UT's Outstanding Defensive Linemen. He picked up first-team All-Big 12 and Academic All-Big 12 honors as a senior in 2007, starting all 13 games. He recorded a career-high 52 tackles (25 solos) with five sacks and 11 stops behind the line of scrimmage. He generated 16 pressures with five pass deflections, a fumble recovery and a forced fumble.

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/517028

Consider this while he was the anchor of the line Texas was usually in the top 15 in run defense.

Nunusguy,

I recall him getting a sack against that vaunted line and probably helped stop that critical 4th down run late in the game against USC.

TexansFanatic
05-13-2008, 09:01 PM
Was he a starter back when he was a sophomore and if so how did he match
up against an outstanding USC OLine in the Championship Rose Bowl game ?
I dunno for sure, but I seem to recall that several members of that USC interior OLine were drafted high into the NFL ?

A portion of the 2006 Rose Bowl writeup on Wikipedia:
"...a Reggie Bush 12-yard run took the Trojans to the Texas 13-yard line with 40 seconds to play in the half. However, two sacks by defensive tackle Frank Okam pushed Southern California back 13 yards and forced the Trojans to use two timeouts. Consequently, a Danelo 43-yard field goal allowed USC three points, and the half ended with Texas still ahead, the score then 16-10."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Rose_Bowl

A pic of Okam taking down Leinert in January of 2006:
http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/56534761.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1939847EC77F5F8D1CE4CB881AD5D590373 A40A659CEC4C8CB6

dalemurphy
05-13-2008, 09:11 PM
Bobino is ANYTHING but a sub-par linebacker.



I was very excited about the Okam pick... UNTIL, a certain poster reminded me the endless parade of UT homer posts that will follow the player around his entire career and 3 years after the guys is retired from football.

My greatest wish as a sports fan is for a Texan Superbowl, or series of them. A close second has to be for the complete demolition of the UT football program. That way, maybe these ridiculous fans in Austin can learn to appreciate a real coach and actually learn the game of basketball instead of polluting football with their ludicrous homerisms.

DocBar
05-13-2008, 09:12 PM
I love it when we draft under the radar like this and give the talking head aholes at ESPiN heartburn when we don't draft like they think we should(as if they've ever watched more than highlight clips of the Texans) and give us poor draft grades. In another 2 years or so, Smithiak will be renowned around the country for their ability to find the draft day diamonds, ala Bill Belichik. I think we had a GREAT draft and got some bigtime players.

Hardcore Texan
05-13-2008, 09:13 PM
I watch a lot of UT football, I am big fan, I think he was quite a steal where we got him. On top of his massive size, football instincts, and atheleticism for a big man, he is a very smart dude, the kind of headsy player Kubiak and Smith really like and for good reason. I really like this pick.

Hardcore Texan
05-13-2008, 09:16 PM
I love it when we draft under the radar like this and give the talking head aholes at ESPiN heartburn when we don't draft like they think we should(as if they've ever watched more than highlight clips of the Texans) and give us poor draft grades. In another 2 years or so, Smithiak will be renowned around the country for their ability to find the draft day diamonds, ala Bill Belichik. I think we had a GREAT draft and got some bigtime players.

Great post, I have been telling a good friend of mine this for at least two years.

HJam72
05-13-2008, 09:25 PM
Great post, I have been telling a good friend of mine this for at least two years.

Yeah, well, I've been telling people that for like 6 years now, and....wait, I shouldn't've told you that. Nevermind. :headhurts::gun:

TexansFanatic
05-13-2008, 09:33 PM
Yeah, well, I've been telling people that for like 6 years now, and....wait, I shouldn't've told you that. Nevermind. :headhurts::gun:

Fortunately, there's a new sheriff in town. This team is going to be good. Hang in there....won't be long now.

DocBar
05-13-2008, 09:34 PM
Yeah, well, I've been telling people that for like 6 years now, and....wait, I shouldn't've told you that. Nevermind. :headhurts::gun:

Starting with the LARGE huevos it took to take Mario, to the guts to trade for Schaub AND draft ANOTHER (stud) D lineman in the first last year, Smith and Kubes have what it takes to make the right decision for our team and to hell with what everyone else thinks. This team is FINALLY getting over the train wreck of CC and co. IMHO, things are going to get real interesting, year in and year out, in January for Texans football.

dalemurphy
05-13-2008, 09:51 PM
Starting with the LARGE huevos it took to take Mario, to the guts to trade for Schaub AND draft ANOTHER (stud) D lineman in the first last year, Smith and Kubes have what it takes to make the right decision for our team and to hell with what everyone else thinks. This team is FINALLY getting over the train wreck of CC and co. IMHO, things are going to get real interesting, year in and year out, in January for Texans football.


Well, the biggest difference is what they do with the middle round picks. These guys are gold in the 2nd - 4th rounds.
On the other hand, I believe Casserly had a value placed on each round and it was something like having a 25% shot at a 3rd rounder cracking your lineup. It's one of the reasons he was so sloppy handing out those picks. And, perhaps that was his ratio: to hit 1 of every 4 in the 3rd, but it's not what these guys do!

DocBar
05-13-2008, 10:11 PM
Well, the biggest difference is what they do with the middle round picks. These guys are gold in the 2nd - 4th rounds.
On the other hand, I believe Casserly had a value placed on each round and it was something like having a 25% shot at a 3rd rounder cracking your lineup. It's one of the reasons he was so sloppy handing out those picks. And, perhaps that was his ratio: to hit 1 of every 4 in the 3rd, but it's not what these guys do! I can go with that to a point, but your really good personnel guys get it done throughout the draft. They draft players not X pick in Y round. It's almost like he just didn't really care after the 2nd round or so. Smith and co. are working their butts off and doing their job from way before draft day til after it's over and getting good UFA's. This is something I'm very happy getting used to.

TexansFanatic
05-13-2008, 10:15 PM
Well, the biggest difference is what they do with the middle round picks. These guys are gold in the 2nd - 4th rounds.
On the other hand, I believe Casserly had a value placed on each round and it was something like having a 25% shot at a 3rd rounder cracking your lineup. It's one of the reasons he was so sloppy handing out those picks. And, perhaps that was his ratio: to hit 1 of every 4 in the 3rd, but it's not what these guys do!

Excellent observation. I remember hearing CC a number of times on the radio talking about how unlikely it was that a certain round pick would make your team. At the time it sounded reasonable to me and I rolled with it. But now, thinking back, it just irritates the hell out of me because it's become clear that he had such a dim view of middle round picks that he would just waste them.

What's even more irritating is how many high picks he wasted as well. It's really a miracle, when you think about it, how far this team has progressed and how quickly it has recovered in the aftermath of the complete incompetence that was Charley Casserly.

ATXtexanfan
05-14-2008, 12:48 AM
okam heading into his junior year was a top 10 prospect, was hurt most of the year and in his senior year seemed not to care. prior to his junior year most believed he would be the greatest DT in texas history ( over hampton and rogers). dude has all the potential of dorsey, yet is bigger and taller. if a fire can be lit under his ass he could be the steal of the draft in my opinion. also, the kid is smart, apparently law school was his fall back plan to football. i live in the austin area and he never reached the hype but the talent is there

badboy
05-14-2008, 05:24 PM
This guy could be really good. I think he will get thrown into some tough situations to see how he responds.

edo783
05-14-2008, 06:41 PM
He looked faster in the tackling dummy drills than I was expecting for a man his size. That bodes well if it tranfers to the field.

Lucky
05-14-2008, 06:52 PM
He looked faster in the tackling dummy drills than I was expecting for a man his size.
Coach Franklin told Okam the last dummy was stuffed with donuts. You could see Frank tear up a little after realizing he had been punk'd.

bah007
05-14-2008, 06:58 PM
Coach Franklin told Okam the last dummy was stuffed with donuts. You could see Frank tear up a little after realizing he had been punk'd.

I thought I heard him say cheeseburgers.

Either way, Okam was going after it.

BigBull17
05-15-2008, 12:21 PM
I love it when we draft under the radar like this and give the talking head aholes at ESPiN heartburn when we don't draft like they think we should(as if they've ever watched more than highlight clips of the Texans) and give us poor draft grades. In another 2 years or so, Smithiak will be renowned around the country for their ability to find the draft day diamonds, ala Bill Belichik. I think we had a GREAT draft and got some bigtime players.

Well, look how NE got praised for taking people way to early. They reached on a few players, including a QB in the 3rd. A FREAKIN QB! Whatever, we rock...

Vinny
05-15-2008, 12:27 PM
Well, look how NE got praised for taking people way to early. They reached on a few players, including a QB in the 3rd. A FREAKIN QB! Whatever, we rock...
I don't think they reached at all...Mayo was one of my favorite front7 players in this draft. People tend to praise NE because they draft so well. People tend to not praise us since we had such a miserable draft record leading up to the new management and coaching staff. For the record, NE was reamed up and down for their first draft in the Belicheck era....people were giving them F's and D's and hammered them for "reaching" and passing on "proven talent"...but it turned out to be an outstanding draft.

Texans_Chick
05-15-2008, 02:20 PM
I don't think they reached at all...Mayo was one of my favorite front7 players in this draft. People tend to praise NE because they draft so well. People tend to not praise us since we had such a miserable draft record leading up to the new management and coaching staff. For the record, NE was reamed up and down for their first draft in the Belicheck era....people were giving them F's and D's and hammered them for "reaching" and passing on "proven talent"...but it turned out to be an outstanding draft.

I think especially in the upper rounds, you have to be pretty darn sure you want to give THAT much money to THAT guy because of the way the rookie salary cap works. BPA really needs to acknowledge team fit too.

FWIW:

You want to know why Rick Smith keeps on talking about working with coaches and assistant coaches on the draft? Word I heard from Reliant was that Casserly did very little consultation with most of the assistant coaches, and that McNair wanted a better explanation of that than "that's how we do it in the NFL, see."

I've also heard through a pretty decent source that the Texans are one of the few teams in the league that puts together their draft board with tons of imput from both offensive and defensive coaches working all together. That each side of the ball, working with the scouts, works on their draft boards. Then, they all get together and advocate for different players in the draft for their team board. I was told that this approach takes more time than some teams do in the league, but they are happier with the results in the end.

The coaches have to believe in the players they draft or the guys aren't going to be developed well. There were a number of players in the Capers/Casserly era who were penalized because Cass liked them but Capers didn't. (There were also players that Capers adored, that Cass thought were mistakes--they were often not on the same page).

Looking at NE, what did they have before the draft? Old guys at LB. Draft linebackers are guys who if they are good, their skills translate to the field faster than some other positions. NE grabbed their 2008 version of Ryans/Willis--that works out well for them if they can get a DROY no matter where they draft.

TexansFanatic
05-15-2008, 02:40 PM
Word I heard from Reliant was that Casserly did very little consultation with most of the assistant coaches, and that McNair wanted a better explanation of that than "that's how we do it in the NFL, see."



Very irritating, especially considering how often throughout his career Casserly has been quoted as saying: "Well, now, the coaches wanted him, see," when discussing one of the many busts that peppered his drafts....

Lucky
05-15-2008, 04:06 PM
FWIW:

You want to know why Rick Smith keeps on talking about working with coaches and assistant coaches on the draft? Word I heard from Reliant was that Casserly did very little consultation with most of the assistant coaches, and that McNair wanted a better explanation of that than "that's how we do it in the NFL, see."

Very irritating, especially considering how often throughout his career Casserly has been quoted as saying: "Well, now, the coaches wanted him, see," when discussing one of the many busts that peppered his drafts....

That doesn't make sense to me. Palmer was in love with Carr and had a ton of input in that pick. Capers & Fangio were supposedly desperate for Babin. And several players selected in the '03 draft had been coached and scouted by the assistants at the Senior Bowl. My understanding has been that Capers and staff's fingerprints were all over those drafts. Mainly because Casserly knew squat about scouting.

Second Honeymoon
05-15-2008, 04:26 PM
Okam has a world of potential but he is a little top heavy to be a top DT. He needs to add some meat to those legs so he can get his root down and hold his position. He can then use his quickness, talent, and intellect to bust free from the block and make a play.

The donuts comment seems a bit over the top but if it was done with a little heart it could entice Okam to work on his conditioning and I don't really care how you motivate guys as long as it works. Okam has 1st Round talent no doubt. Hopefully our defensive staff can polish him and keep him motivated because getting a starting DT so late in the draft would be a coup.

Second Honeymoon
05-15-2008, 04:29 PM
That doesn't make sense to me. Palmer was in love with Carr and had a ton of input in that pick. Capers & Fangio were supposedly desperate for Babin. And several players selected in the '03 draft had been coached and scouted by the assistants at the Senior Bowl. My understanding has been that Capers and staff's fingerprints were all over those drafts. Mainly because Casserly knew squat about scouting.

and very little about being a GM as well. he gravy trained his name off of Bobby Beathard. cass is responsible for drafting 2 complete busts as franchise QB...Shuler and Carr. that alone shows him to be inept and we all know that he isn't just prone to bad picks at QB either. The guy is a complete joke and a complete jerk and the fact that he is unemployed in the NFL tells you all you need to know about how he is viewed around the league. He was always so willing to act like he was smarter than everyone and prove himself to be an abject moron.

Maddict5
05-15-2008, 04:50 PM
and very little about being a GM as well. he gravy trained his name off of Bobby Beathard. cass is responsible for drafting 2 complete busts as franchise QB...Shuler and Carr. that alone shows him to be inept and we all know that he isn't just prone to bad picks at QB either. The guy is a complete joke and a complete jerk and the fact that he is unemployed in the NFL tells you all you need to know about how he is viewed around the league. He was always so willing to act like he was smarter than everyone and prove himself to be an abject moron.

obvious case of closet casserly fan imo :thinking:

HOU-TEX
05-15-2008, 04:52 PM
obvious case of a closet carr and casserly fan imo :thinking:

Fixed it. :stirpot:

76Texan
05-15-2008, 07:12 PM
I watched the first half ot the UT-OU game last night.
Seems like Bob Stoops didn''t want anything to do with Okam.
He had him doubled up at least half the time.
Other times, the Sooners would run away from him.

I would have like to see Okam spending less time on the ground though (for whatever reason).
And when OU ran ZBS, the offensive lineman could push him away from the side.

He's a space eater for sure, and isn't slow by any mean.
Somehow I envision that he can be a force if he plays at a lower weight.
He seems to be about half-to-one step away from making great plays.

It was a very good first half for him nonetheless, and he was quite close to be a dominant force.

Texans_Chick
05-16-2008, 11:58 PM
That doesn't make sense to me. Palmer was in love with Carr and had a ton of input in that pick. Capers & Fangio were supposedly desperate for Babin. And several players selected in the '03 draft had been coached and scouted by the assistants at the Senior Bowl. My understanding has been that Capers and staff's fingerprints were all over those drafts. Mainly because Casserly knew squat about scouting.

That's what I thought when the person told me this. But it was from someone who would have known what McNair was thinking about stuff. I didn't get to talk long about this, but I am thinking that this is more the lower assistants. Like what the linebacker coaches thought about linebackers wasn't anything that Casserly wanted to know.

From public information, we know that one of the things that Smith did was to get the player information about current players and college players more together and computerized--that they were very segregated so that there wasn't cross referenceable information. There was an article about that a little while after Smith came on board. I'd show it to you on HT.com but that would be hard to find on search engines.

Lucky
05-17-2008, 08:06 AM
Like what the linebacker coaches thought about linebackers wasn't anything that Casserly wanted to know.
I couldn't remember who the Texans LB coach was prior to Holland without looking him up (Tom Olivadotti). I'm thinking those drafts would have been equally inept had these lower assistants had input. Other than the assistants the Texans kept (Marciano, Harris, Hoke), I don't know of any others still in the league (wait, Kippy Brown is with the Lions).

Here's a post-draft review (http://profootballexperts.scout.com/2/751682.html) of the Texans effort from Scout.com's Tom Marino. Not that I agree with Marino on much of anything he said. He thinks Duane Brown was a major reach. He thinks Molden was drafted in the 2nd round. But, Marino was a scout for 35 years. And his take on the Texans coaches' involvement in the draft is interesting.

This is what you get when coaches run your draft instead of scouts! An entire year spent preparing and this is the best they can do?As a former scout, Marino is complaining about coaches mucking up the draft process. Scouts watch players all season, then the coaches see them in all star games and workouts and disregard the scouts' opinions. I can see both sides. The coaches should be able to do some grocery shopping, but the scouts have followed the players more closely. Some balance between the two sides is likely needed. Who knows for sure how that plays out for the Texans? Perception is that Brown was an Alex Gibbs pick. Did Gibbs fall in love with Browns measurables, or does he know a winner when he sees one?

edo783
05-17-2008, 08:31 AM
Did Gibbs fall in love with Browns measurables, or does he know a winner when he sees one?

My guess: A little of the former and a lot of the latter.

barrett
05-17-2008, 12:45 PM
on HT.com Okam is asked who he'd like to play against the most. I love his response...

"...the Titans because I finally will have a chance to sack Vince Young. We never got to touch him in practice at Texas.”

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4324

TexansFanatic
05-17-2008, 12:48 PM
My guess: A little of the former and a lot of the latter.

I sure hope you're right. I would hate to see a great coach like Gibbs fade off into the twilight of his career with egg on his face. Especially if that egg is thrown by Texans fans....

TexansFanatic
05-17-2008, 12:50 PM
on HT.com Okam is asked who he'd like to play against the most. I love his response...

"...the Titans because I finally will have a chance to sack Vince Young. We never got to touch him in practice at Texas.”

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4324

HA! Thanks for posting that. Great quote.

barrett
05-17-2008, 12:56 PM
no problem.

i hate vince young. i live in austin. you have no idea. i was at academy two days ago and i walked past there sports wear section and all you can see is cowboys jerseys and vince young jerseys. not one texans jersey, t-shirt, or even a {ucking hat.

Texans_Chick
05-17-2008, 02:39 PM
I couldn't remember who the Texans LB coach was prior to Holland without looking him up (Tom Olivadotti). I'm thinking those drafts would have been equally inept had these lower assistants had input. Other than the assistants the Texans kept (Marciano, Harris, Hoke), I don't know of any others still in the league (wait, Kippy Brown is with the Lions).

Here's a post-draft review (http://profootballexperts.scout.com/2/751682.html) of the Texans effort from Scout.com's Tom Marino. Not that I agree with Marino on much of anything he said. He thinks Duane Brown was a major reach. He thinks Molden was drafted in the 2nd round. But, Marino was a scout for 35 years. And his take on the Texans coaches' involvement in the draft is interesting.

As a former scout, Marino is complaining about coaches mucking up the draft process. Scouts watch players all season, then the coaches see them in all star games and workouts and disregard the scouts' opinions. I can see both sides. The coaches should be able to do some grocery shopping, but the scouts have followed the players more closely. Some balance between the two sides is likely needed. Who knows for sure how that plays out for the Texans? Perception is that Brown was an Alex Gibbs pick. Did Gibbs fall in love with Browns measurables, or does he know a winner when he sees one?

I take the Texans at their word on Brown. They scouted who might fit as a ZBS O linemen. Then they looked at who was likely going to be still available by the time the Texans picked. Then they really focused on those guys to see if they made sense for the team.

(And they pretty much nailed Brown's value in this particular draft given what the 49ers were planning to do next).

With only 5 picks in the draft and lots of needs, it was pretty obvious that they weren't going to have any room to move up.

And if you look at Brown's career, in some ways it is right up the alley of what the Texans like. Selfless guys who do what the coaches want and the team needs, are teachable and are leaders and good guys in the lockerroom.

I think some scouts look at players in a vacuum without figuring out how they might fit on a particular team. Through Round 5, the Texans picked a bunch of guys who you can picture in your mind as someone who fits what the Texans are looking for. That they are the type of guys they like, and fit very specific needs. Especially in lower rounds, relative worth of players is very very subjective.

I've been told by more than one person for the Texans that fit is a really important thing to Kubiak and company. That guys who don't fit the true believer, try hard, have their football priorities straight, just get it guys, really stand out in the locker room as people who don't fit in.

If getting those players who get it is a priority, a lot of players may come off your draft board.

Honoring Earl 34
05-17-2008, 02:45 PM
I take the Texans at their word on Brown. They scouted who might fit as a ZBS O linemen. Then they looked at who was likely going to be still available by the time the Texans picked. Then they really focused on those guys to see if they made sense for the team.

(And they pretty much nailed Brown's value in this particular draft given what the 49ers were planning to do next).

With only 5 picks in the draft and lots of needs, it was pretty obvious that they weren't going to have any room to move up.

And if you look at Brown's career, in some ways it is right up the alley of what the Texans like. Selfless guys who do what the coaches want and the team needs, are teachable and are leaders and good guys in the lockerroom.

I think some scouts look at players in a vacuum without figuring out how they might fit on a particular team. Through Round 5, the Texans picked a bunch of guys who you can picture in your mind as someone who fits what the Texans are looking for. That they are the type of guys they like, and fit very specific needs. Especially in lower rounds, relative worth of players is very very subjective.

I've been told by more than one person for the Texans that fit is a really important thing to Kubiak and company. That guys who don't fit the true believer, try hard, have their football priorities straight, just get it guys, really stand out in the locker room as people who don't fit in.

If getting those players who get it is a priority, a lot of players may come off your draft board.

I believe you're exactly right . It seems like the good fit guys can play a bit also , hopefully good enough to go to a super bowl .

Rex King
05-17-2008, 06:09 PM
And if you look at Brown's career, in some ways it is right up the alley of what the Texans like. Selfless guys who do what the coaches want and the team needs, are teachable and are leaders and good guys in the lockerroom.
And in the classroom/smart. How many guys were captains of their college teams? At least four from this class alone.

I think some scouts look at players in a vacuum without figuring out how they might fit on a particular team. If getting those players who get it is a priority, a lot of players may come off your draft board.
Good article in the draft issue of ProFootballWeekly about understanding draft value and the difference between grading for the league (more media and workout influenced) and grading for the scheme. I think one of Casserley's big problems was he didn't know how to pick players to fit their scheme, most glaringly the 3-4, and probably why he undervalued middle-round picks. He was grading for the league. But he did say that Kubiak was extremely good at articulating exactly the type of player he wanted for the 06 draft.

Interestingly, in the book The Draft: A Year Inside the NFL's Search for Talent, the Atlanta Falcons took TJ off their board because he didn't pass their character filter. Of course, that didn't really help them a whole lot with Ron Mexico.

NitroGSXR
05-17-2008, 06:13 PM
Of course, that didn't really help them a whole lot with Ron Mexico.
Sorry to disrupt the flow of the conversation but who is Ron Mexico? I don't get the name? I did a search and it only came up with a Michael Vick. What's the correlation?

Rex King
05-17-2008, 06:18 PM
From wiki:

"In March 2005 a woman named Sonya Elliott filed a civil lawsuit against Vick alleging she contracted genital herpes from Vick, in the autumn of 2002, and that he failed to inform her that he had the disease.[25] Elliot further alleged that Vick had visited clinics under the alias "Ron Mexico" to get treatments and thus he knew of his condition. On April 24, 2006 Vick's attorney, Lawrence Woodward, revealed that the lawsuit had settled out of court with an undisclosed amount.[26] Many fans bought custom jerseys from NFL.com with Vick's number 7 and the name "MEXICO" on the back, as a reference to his lawsuit. The NFL has since banned customizing jerseys with the name Mexico."

http://thesaloon.net/ronmexicojersey.jpg

swtbound07
05-17-2008, 06:18 PM
Sorry to disrupt the flow of the conversation but who is Ron Mexico? I don't get the name? I did a search and it only came up with a Michael Vick. What's the correlation?

ron mexico is the alias michael vick used at a clinic getting an STD test

langonelives
05-22-2008, 01:42 AM
5 16(151) Frank Okam DT TEXAS
Okam is a classic underachiever. Although he has outstanding size and flashes great lateral mobility, he's extremely inconsistent. He takes far too many plays off and appears to wear down. There are also questions about his work ethic and love for the game.


-espn

76Texan
05-22-2008, 02:11 AM
I don't know where they got that from.

But after reviewing the UT-OU game, I was very impressed with Okam. Especially in the fourth quarter. He definitely did not take any play off the whole game. He was fighting through double teams about 2/3 of the times.

If he plays like that fourth quarter, I would see him as our starter on day one.

If he plays like he did through that whole game and also the first half of the 06 Rose Bowl (I haven't reviewed the 2nd half yet), I see him in the rotation on day one and eventually compete for the starting job.

Maybe I need to see more of him before I think so highly of the guy! :)

barrett
05-22-2008, 03:50 AM
I take the Texans at their word on Brown....

if you look at Brown's career, in some ways it is right up the alley of what the Texans like. Selfless guys who do what the coaches want and the team needs, are teachable and are leaders and good guys in the lockerroom.

If getting those players who get it is a priority, a lot of players may come off your draft board.

one of the main reasons why i love this team. they get guys that get it. guys that are good people and hard working members of something great.

Dan B.
05-22-2008, 03:58 AM
Great breakdown of Okam's career opposed to other DT's taken here (http://www.battleredblog.com/2008/5/16/510140/frank-okam-setting-the-rec).

PapaL
05-22-2008, 07:24 AM
Great breakdown of Okam's career opposed to other DT's taken here (http://www.battleredblog.com/2008/5/16/510140/frank-okam-setting-the-rec).

Well worth the read.

Hopefully AO and Big Frank will form a bond and feed off of each other. They would make an awesome duo.

Texans_Chick
05-22-2008, 08:13 AM
Great breakdown of Okam's career opposed to other DT's taken here (http://www.battleredblog.com/2008/5/16/510140/frank-okam-setting-the-rec).

Everybody here should read that article. It is great.

BigBull17
05-22-2008, 09:13 AM
I don't think they reached at all...Mayo was one of my favorite front7 players in this draft. People tend to praise NE because they draft so well. People tend to not praise us since we had such a miserable draft record leading up to the new management and coaching staff. For the record, NE was reamed up and down for their first draft in the Belicheck era....people were giving them F's and D's and hammered them for "reaching" and passing on "proven talent"...but it turned out to be an outstanding draft.

Mayo was a great pick, but I feel they reached on their other picks. I think they could have gotten more value with their 2nd and 3rd rounders than they did IMO.

Texans_Chick
05-22-2008, 09:18 AM
on HT.com Okam is asked who he'd like to play against the most. I love his response...

"...the Titans because I finally will have a chance to sack Vince Young. We never got to touch him in practice at Texas.”

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4324


He is not just saying that because he is with the Texans. That was his response in interviews before the draft.

edo783
05-22-2008, 09:26 AM
He is not just saying that because he is with the Texans. That was his response in interviews before the draft.

Mmm, that's kind of interesting. I suspect that there may be a bit of resentment in Frank that VY was treated that way and may really want to smack him around. I thought he was just saying to play to the Texans fans. Go big Frank!:doot:

Lucky
05-22-2008, 09:46 AM
From the article above linked by Dan B.
Wonderlic score of 39 (http://deadspin.com/384576/a-usc-football-player-got-a-low-test-score-what)This is a case where a high wonderlic score might have hurt a prospect. I can see the coaches & scouts thinking "We want D-linemen who react, not think." I realize that I'm pretty much alone in this opinion. I know the NFL disagrees with me. But I think the Wonderlic is worthless is determining a prospect's ability to play in the NFL.

"Lucky, you must have flunked the Wonderlic yourself. NFL playbooks are huge and complex, and the Wonderlic helps teams identify players who can absorb that information and utilize it in a timely manner."

OK, then give these guys a football test. The playbook doesn't have anything about two trains leaving Chicago. It has formations and plays. That there are teams out there using this test to make football decisions is just plain nutty. If I were a NFL GM, I'd use the test results to line the birdcage.

So I think Okam's Wonderlic score probably played into the notion that he lacked passion for the game. But, so did showing up at the combine in the 340 lb range. If Frank paid for one of these draft prep camps, he should ask for his money back.

Ole Miss Texan
05-22-2008, 10:26 AM
Great breakdown of Okam's career opposed to other DT's taken here (http://www.battleredblog.com/2008/5/16/510140/frank-okam-setting-the-rec).

I think that's a good article to read and I really do like Okam. He could be such a perfect fit next to Okoye.

But... I really dislike when people/articles/commentators/etc. focus their entire thoughts or article on stats. Stats, stats, stats... you can only read into them SO much. Obviously, you want a player to have better stats than the next but there are SOOO many different variables that go into how a player got those stats (or didn't) that are rarely ever talked about.

I understand the point of the article was addressing how Okam had just as good or better stats than any other DT in the draft... and that's awesome, it really opened up my eyes about that- but I think you can find a lot of players like that at other positions too.

Take Colt Brennan for example, you could probably compare his passing stats and everything and he may come out very near the top of the QB's. Just using that as an example, I really don't feel like looking up the stats- but the point being is that most players on every team are asked to do different things and take on certain responsibilities to make THAT team the best it can be. A coach can easily put a player in a situation to go after the QB more which may in turn lead to more sacks, but if they have a better chance of winning by focusing on the run, then that's what is going to happen.

Not trying to take away anything from Okam because I absolutely love the pick and think he's a steal in the 5th round, but just trying to play devils advocate. :)

bigbrewster2000
05-22-2008, 12:02 PM
I think that's a good article to read and I really do like Okam. He could be such a perfect fit next to Okoye.

But... I really dislike when people/articles/commentators/etc. focus their entire thoughts or article on stats. Stats, stats, stats... you can only read into them SO much. Obviously, you want a player to have better stats than the next but there are SOOO many different variables that go into how a player got those stats (or didn't) that are rarely ever talked about.

I understand the point of the article was addressing how Okam had just as good or better stats than any other DT in the draft... and that's awesome, it really opened up my eyes about that- but I think you can find a lot of players like that at other positions too.

Take Colt Brennan for example, you could probably compare his passing stats and everything and he may come out very near the top of the QB's. Just using that as an example, I really don't feel like looking up the stats- but the point being is that most players on every team are asked to do different things and take on certain responsibilities to make THAT team the best it can be. A coach can easily put a player in a situation to go after the QB more which may in turn lead to more sacks, but if they have a better chance of winning by focusing on the run, then that's what is going to happen.

Not trying to take away anything from Okam because I absolutely love the pick and think he's a steal in the 5th round, but just trying to play devils advocate. :) I can see where you are going with that but the difference is once Colt Brennan played against top college talent he looked like garbage paste and Okam played against top talent for the majority of the season. That being said, Okam didnt ever seem to dominate a game like Glenn Dorsey did so I dont think that there is much of a comparison between the two.

I will say this I think the Texans will put him in a position to succeed with the other talent that we already have on the line. And the line minus Okam wasnt the strength of the Texas defense.

Thorn
05-22-2008, 01:54 PM
Okam is a steal in the 5th round as far as his talent and upside goes. This guy, given time and coaching, will develop into a winner.

We now have the future of the D-line in place, we just need to find a bookend for Mario and we are set.

mussop
05-22-2008, 03:21 PM
We now have the future of the D-line in place, we just need to find a bookend for Mario and we are set.

I'm thinking/hoping that this could be the year that the light goes on for Earl Cochran. Has anyone heard or read anything about him lately? I would think he has to realize how big of an opportunity he has this year and come to camp in the best shape of his life. I will be disappointed if he doesn’t.

Carr Bombed
05-22-2008, 03:33 PM
I couldn't remember who the Texans LB coach was prior to Holland without looking him up (Tom Olivadotti). I'm thinking those drafts would have been equally inept had these lower assistants had input. Other than the assistants the Texans kept (Marciano, Harris, Hoke), I don't know of any others still in the league (wait, Kippy Brown is with the Lions).

Here's a post-draft review (http://profootballexperts.scout.com/2/751682.html) of the Texans effort from Scout.com's Tom Marino. Not that I agree with Marino on much of anything he said. He thinks Duane Brown was a major reach. He thinks Molden was drafted in the 2nd round. But, Marino was a scout for 35 years. And his take on the Texans coaches' involvement in the draft is interesting.

As a former scout, Marino is complaining about coaches mucking up the draft process. Scouts watch players all season, then the coaches see them in all star games and workouts and disregard the scouts' opinions. I can see both sides. The coaches should be able to do some grocery shopping, but the scouts have followed the players more closely. Some balance between the two sides is likely needed. Who knows for sure how that plays out for the Texans? Perception is that Brown was an Alex Gibbs pick. Did Gibbs fall in love with Browns measurables, or does he know a winner when he sees one?

Sorry, but the guy lost me at....."Adibi doesn't make plays and lacks playing instincts". I mean, what game film was this guy watching.....all Adibi did was make plays throughout his college career, I think it's pretty safe to say Marino didn't watch much (if any) game tape of most of the players we drafted.

76Texan
05-22-2008, 05:37 PM
Sorry, but the guy lost me at....."Adibi doesn't make plays and lacks playing instincts". I mean, what game film was this guy watching.....all Adibi did was make plays throughout his college career, I think it's pretty safe to say Marino didn't watch much (if any) game tape of most of the players we drafted.
Yeah, I was taken aback by what he said.

76Texan
05-22-2008, 05:51 PM
I can see where you are going with that but the difference is once Colt Brennan played against top college talent he looked like garbage paste and Okam played against top talent for the majority of the season. That being said, Okam didnt ever seem to dominate a game like Glenn Dorsey did so I dont think that there is much of a comparison between the two.

I will say this I think the Texans will put him in a position to succeed with the other talent that we already have on the line. And the line minus Okam wasnt the strength of the Texas defense.
That pretty much sums it up.
I thought that without Okam, the Texas D doesn't look good at all.
As opposed to the Tigers who had good players all through the defensive line up. If the LBs and the secondary do their job well, it gives the defensive line that extra 1/2-1 second to create havoc. Something that the Texas D-line did not have the luxury of.

76Texan
05-22-2008, 05:57 PM
I'm thinking/hoping that this could be the year that the light goes on for Earl Cochran. Has anyone heard or read anything about him lately? I would think he has to realize how big of an opportunity he has this year and come to camp in the best shape of his life. I will be disappointed if he doesn’t.Cochran played fairly well, IMO.
I believed he started getting more playing time when the Texans decided to cut Orr and Weaver was slowed a bit by injury.
I hope Cochran continues to improve.