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View Full Version : O-Line, Who Stays, Who Goes?


Insideop
05-12-2008, 10:45 PM
I haven't posted in awhile, but I've been reading the threads the past few weeks and just wanted to get some opinions on who you think will make it on Gibbs O-Line. After checking the roster, I found we have a total of 18 linemen, including Pittman, the Long Snapper, but excluding the TE's. A breakdown of the positions shows we have 7 Tackles, 6 Guards, 4 Centers and the LS. This doesn't take into account players who can play multiple positions which is a plus, and will probably go into the decision making by Kubes/Gibbs when it gets down to making cuts.

Here are the players listed by their primary position:

Tackles
* Jordan Black 6'5" 310
* Duane Brown 6'4" 308
* Rashad Butler 6'4" 293
* Brandon Frye 6'4" 302
* Ephraim Salaam 6'7" 300
* Charles Spencer 6'4" 352
* Eric Winston 6'7" 310

Guards
* Mike Brisiel 6'5" 300
* Scott Jackson 6'4" 300
* Chester Pitts 6'3" 320
* Dan Stevenson 6'5" 300
* Kasey Studdard 6'2" 302
* Fred Weary 6'4" 308

Centers
* Greg Eslinger 6'3" 292
* Chris Myers 6'4" 300
* Chukky Okobi 6'1" 305
* Chris White 6'2" 285

The Texans carried 10 O-Linemen last year, counting Pittman, the LS. Assuming they carry 10 again this year, including Pittman, which of the remaining players do you think will make the team and who will be put on the Practice Squad (I'm not sure but I think only Frye and Studdard are PS eligible) if any? :user:

As of now this is the way I see it:
RT Winston, Salaam
RG Brisiel, Weary(if 100% recovered)
C Myers, Eslinger
LG Pitts, Spencer
LT Salaam (until Brown is ready)

PS Frye, Studdard
PUP/IR White

The1ApplePie
05-12-2008, 10:59 PM
Black will be gone

Ole Miss Texan
05-12-2008, 11:05 PM
This is how I would like it (tought call though):

RT Winston, Butler
RG Brisiel, Weary(if 100% recovered)
C Myers, Eslinger
LG Pitts, Spencer
LT Salaam (until Brown is ready)

PS Frye, Studdard
LS Pittman

I like Brown, Salaam, Winston and Butler as our 4 tackles.
I'd like to see Pitts, Weary, Brisiel, and Spencer as our guards.
At Center i see Myers being a C/G, and i'm not familiar with the other C's.

I think Frye is a guy that needs to make the team and he'll be a Guard. If we can Keep him on the PS, that's the way to go. I don't see Studdard making the 53 man roster but I still want him on this team. Pittman will make the team as well. And I'm running out of room on the roster!

dalemurphy
05-12-2008, 11:23 PM
Brown Salaam
Pitts Frye
Myers Eslinger
Spencer Briesel
Winston Butler

Studdard, is he P.S. eligible
C. White PUP


Who knows... I think Salaam may get cut if they're confident in spencer's health. I've got Weary and Studdard not making the squad- those are a couple tough cuts. Also, I've got 10 on the roster when it's unlikely we carry more than 9.

I don't know... this is going to be a tough camp!

Polo
05-12-2008, 11:23 PM
I hope Pittman doesn't make the team...

Since Kubiak has been here he's said that he wants guys to be able to play dual roles...

I just think that if we can find one more roster player besides Dreesen who can long snap he's outta here...

TEXANRED
05-12-2008, 11:30 PM
Brown
Pitts
Myers
Spencer
Winston

Salaam, Studdard, Weary, White make the second crew.

D-ReK
05-12-2008, 11:31 PM
We carried 10 guys on the OL last year, so assuming we keep that the same, I'm guessing we will have:

LT -- Brown, Salaam
LG -- Pitts, Frye
C - Myers, Eslinger
RG -- Brisiel, Weary
RT -- Winston, Spencer

Specnatz
05-12-2008, 11:50 PM
With the unknowns as of right now as far as injuries are concerned it is impossible to answer.

Chris White, Fred Weary and Charles Spencer all could be on pup to start the season. Kubiak has already mentioned Spencer for Guard not tackle so I doubt they will even look at him there.

I thought White if healthy would be great as a swing Center Guard from what my blind eyes (meaning I have no eye for talent eval) could tell last year. I do think more of the younger guys will be making the roster.

keyser
05-12-2008, 11:51 PM
I think the following 7 are highly likely to make the team:
Brown (obviously)
Winston (obviously)
Salaam (reliable, even if only as a backup)
Brisiel (good performance last year)
Pitts (long-term contributor with no one clearly better)
Myers (he's basically one of this year's draft picks, chosen for this role, probably with heavy input by Gibbs et al.)
Spencer (assuming he's recovered, even if not at the level he was before - showed too much potential, and might not clear waivers)

If they keep a LS, that probably leaves only a couple of open positions. They'll need someone else as a Center, and I think that will depend on White's recovery (I don't know his status). If he has recovered, I expect him to have the spot, and if not, Eslinger. For the last spot, I think Fred Weary will have first shot, if he has really recovered, and if not, I expect them to go for someone with flexibility to play several positions, probably Brandon Frye. I would expect Studdard to go to the PS.

ObsiWan
05-13-2008, 12:10 AM
We carried 10 guys on the OL last year, so assuming we keep that the same, I'm guessing we will have:

LT -- Brown, Salaam
LG -- Pitts, Frye
C - Myers, Eslinger
RG -- Brisiel, Weary
RT -- Winston, Spencer

THis looks reasonable to me. Although I'm not sure about Eslinger vs. White. I ain't sayin' its wrong, I just haven't seen enough of either of them to make a call.

PapaL
05-13-2008, 07:37 AM
Remember that our LS is actually a TE so that may come into the mix come time for roster cuts.

infantrycak
05-13-2008, 10:00 AM
Remember that our LS is actually a TE so that may come into the mix come time for roster cuts.

Which is pretty irrelevant since he will never touch the field as a TE.

Mr teX
05-13-2008, 10:32 AM
We carried 10 guys on the OL last year, so assuming we keep that the same, I'm guessing we will have:

LT -- Brown, Salaam
LG -- Pitts, Frye
C - Myers, Eslinger
RG -- Brisiel, Weary
RT -- Winston, Spencer

looks reasonable to me except I don't know where this dude Eslinger comes from so, i'll have to assume he's 1 of the odd men out. I think Weary will be kept around just b/c he's versatile (guard & center) & i think Studdard will push someone for one of the guard spots.

nero THE zero
05-13-2008, 11:12 AM
IMO:

Tackles
* Duane Brown 6'4" 308
* Brandon Frye 6'4" 302
* Ephraim Salaam 6'7" 300
* Eric Winston 6'7" 310

Guards
* Mike Brisiel 6'5" 300
* Chester Pitts 6'3" 320
* Kasey Studdard 6'2" 302
* Fred Weary 6'4" 308

Centers
* Greg Eslinger 6'3" 292
* Chris Myers 6'4" 300

I don't know who's eligiable for PS or anything so I won't get into that, but these are the guys I think will be on our opening roster.

Really tough choices there.

Lucky
05-13-2008, 11:17 AM
Did anyone see or hear of where Brandon Frye lined up during mini camp? I had heard somewhere prior to this camp (radio?) that he would see time at Guard.

beerlover
05-13-2008, 11:49 AM
OT's

lock & load - Duane Brown, Ephraim Salaam, Eric Winston, Charles Spencer
roster battle - Jordan Black vs. Rashad Butler

OG's

lock & load - Mike Brisiel, Chester Pitts, Fred Weary, Brandon Frye
roster battle - Kasey Studdard vs. Dan Stevenson vs. Scott Jackson

OC's

lock & load - Greg Eslinger, Chris Myers
roster battle - Chukky Okobi vs. Chris White

Ole Miss Texan
05-13-2008, 11:59 AM
Did anyone see or hear of where Brandon Frye lined up during mini camp? I had heard somewhere prior to this camp (radio?) that he would see time at Guard.

I heard a comment that Kubiak made sometime that they actually drafted Frye with the intention of moving him to guard and never really considered him as a tackle. It was a surprise to me since I had never heard that. Not sure where he's lining up at mini camp but my money is he's in as guard and not a tackle.

badboy
05-13-2008, 12:22 PM
I know Kubes has Spencer penciled in at RG but I can not believe that if he is healthy, Kubes would not give him a chance @ LT. Spencer beat all comp two years ago including the guy who started in his place for 2 seasons and he doesn't even get a chance at LT? If Brown is the guy & CS is at RG, ok, but I'd want to see CS at LT a few plays. No coach is talking about moving Dunta to nickle CB and he is worse physically than CS.
Anyone have any clue how Jordan Black would do in ZBS? I have been against him since he signed but he might do better under Gibbs.
I could see Weary on IR at beginning of season to keep another player on roster for longer eval and to work Fred in. Why make a cut until you have to?

PapaL
05-13-2008, 12:29 PM
Which is pretty irrelevant since he will never touch the field as a TE.

Well until LS becomes an official position it is relevant. He'll be on the roster as either a TE or C.

Add to that Spencer has been playing G and that makes the way the roster is laid out different. It's way too early to try and guess whats going happen.

Goldensilence
05-13-2008, 12:40 PM
This is how I would like it (tought call though):

RT Winston, Butler
RG Brisiel, Weary(if 100% recovered)
C Myers, Eslinger
LG Pitts, Spencer
LT Salaam (until Brown is ready)

PS Frye, Studdard
LS Pittman

I like Brown, Salaam, Winston and Butler as our 4 tackles.
I'd like to see Pitts, Weary, Brisiel, and Spencer as our guards.
At Center i see Myers being a C/G, and i'm not familiar with the other C's.

I think Frye is a guy that needs to make the team and he'll be a Guard. If we can Keep him on the PS, that's the way to go. I don't see Studdard making the 53 man roster but I still want him on this team. Pittman will make the team as well. And I'm running out of room on the roster!

This is pretty much How I'd call it too Ole Miss. Brisiel looked good last year and Myers and Eslinger could end up in a pretty good battle for center.

I think there are some real variables here in the form of the health of Spencer and Weary. If and its a big if he's cleared and is ready to go by TC both guard spots aren't safe. I think he'll have to make it as a guard to and won't see reps at Tackle. Weary is in a tough place coming of an injury and only signed to a one year deal. I like the guy but I can't help but wonder if he's now a stop gap guy instead of a long term player on the team.

I'd love to see Studdard's tenacity make the team but I think he's got one year or so left for PS eligibility.

On a side note is anyone else seeing a David Anderson vs Grice-Mullins battle for the 5th WR spot?

Ole Miss Texan
05-13-2008, 02:46 PM
On a side note is anyone else seeing a David Anderson vs Grice-Mullins battle for the 5th WR spot?

That's the problem I keep coming to. There's just so many player I think should make this team and a limited number of spots. First and foremost I look at the OL and RB positions- I could easily fill 15 spots between the two of them. Throw in the necessary QB, TE, FB and I run out of room for these Wide outs. I would like to see 5 because 4 just doesn't seem like enough.

Back to your question- I definitely see that happening. I think Darnell Jenkins (the other rookie fa) just sounds like he'd be a good football player. Havn't seen much of either though, so I think it'd be Anderson's job to lose.

For those that have, how similar type of player is Anderson compared to Grice-Mullins and Jenkins?? And what would we be looking for out of our 5th wide out? I see Johnson, Walter, and even Jacoby so to speak as good possession receivers- Davis a speedster HR threat. And I see Slaton being used in the slot some... I suspect we'd be looking for another 'smaller' faster type of WR?

HOU-TEX
05-13-2008, 02:53 PM
That's the problem I keep coming to. There's just so many player I think should make this team and a limited number of spots. First and foremost I look at the OL and RB positions- I could easily fill 15 spots between the two of them. Throw in the necessary QB, TE, FB and I run out of room for these Wide outs. I would like to see 5 because 4 just doesn't seem like enough.
Back to your question- I definitely see that happening. I think Darnell Jenkins (the other rookie fa) just sounds like he'd be a good football player. Havn't seen much of either though, so I think it'd be Anderson's job to lose.

For those that have, how similar type of player is Anderson compared to Grice-Mullins and Jenkins?? And what would we be looking for out of our 5th wide out? I see Johnson, Walter, and even Jacoby so to speak as good possession receivers- Davis a speedster HR threat. And I see Slaton being used in the slot some... I suspect we'd be looking for another 'smaller' faster type of WR?


That's an excellent problem to have too. In years past that was never a problem. As Kubiak began saying before last season, it's becoming more and more difficult to make the Texans squad.

:fans:

infantrycak
05-13-2008, 02:56 PM
AJ is far more than a "possession receiver."

D-ReK
05-13-2008, 03:01 PM
AJ is far more than a "possession receiver."

Exactly. He has grown into one of the most complete WRs in the NFL. He is a deep threat that will go over the middle and pick up the tough yards. Not to mention he's a good blocker. If only he could stay healthy this entire season. With Schaub at QB, 100/1250/10 is not out of the question at all. People keep saying "we need playmakers!!!!!!!!11111!" but everyone overlooks that we have a top 5 WR who can not be neutralized.

bigbrewster2000
05-13-2008, 03:02 PM
I know Kubes has Spencer penciled in at RG but I can not believe that if he is healthy, Kubes would not give him a chance @ LT. Spencer beat all comp two years ago including the guy who started in his place for 2 seasons and he doesn't even get a chance at LT? If Brown is the guy & CS is at RG, ok, but I'd want to see CS at LT a few plays. No coach is talking about moving Dunta to nickle CB and he is worse physically than CS.
Anyone have any clue how Jordan Black would do in ZBS? I have been against him since he signed but he might do better under Gibbs.
I could see Weary on IR at beginning of season to keep another player on roster for longer eval and to work Fred in. Why make a cut until you have to?

If Weary goes on IR he cant play. If they did that it would have been a waste of money. I could definantly see him on the PUP list at the begining of the season though for the purpose that you stated above.

And I also want to see if Spencer can play LT still. If he can do it then we have or starter and his back up for the next 10 years. :cool:

Specnatz
05-13-2008, 03:06 PM
If Weary goes on IR he cant play. If they did that it would have been a waste of money. I could definantly see him on the PUP list at the begining of the season though for the purpose that you stated above.

And I also want to see if Spencer can play LT still. If he can do it then we have or starter and his back up for the next 10 years. :cool:

He probably ment pup

nunusguy
05-13-2008, 03:09 PM
If Weary goes on IR he cant play. If they did that it would have been a waste of money. I could definantly see him on the PUP list at the begining of the season though for the purpose that you stated above.

And I also want to see if Spencer can play LT still. If he can do it then we have or starter and his back up for the next 10 years. :cool:

I dunno, but don't think they've got that much invested in Fred ? Actually the only OLineman who is a big investment at this time is Brown. Maybe Chester still has a fair chunk of unamortized cap on the books ?
I'm not hopeful about Spencer. Reports are is that he is still walking with a limp. Frankly, his chances just don't sound very good.

Lucky
05-13-2008, 03:10 PM
Well until LS becomes an official position it is relevant. He'll be on the roster as either a TE or C.

Pittman is on the roster (http://www.houstontexans.com/team/Roster.html) as a Long Snapper (http://www.houstontexans.com/team/player.asp?player_id=55).

Hey, Long Snappers are people, too.

Spike
05-13-2008, 03:14 PM
This is pretty much How I'd call it too Ole Miss. Brisiel looked good last year and Myers and Eslinger could end up in a pretty good battle for center.

I think there are some real variables here in the form of the health of Spencer and Weary. If and its a big if he's cleared and is ready to go by TC both guard spots aren't safe. I think he'll have to make it as a guard to and won't see reps at Tackle. Weary is in a tough place coming of an injury and only signed to a one year deal. I like the guy but I can't help but wonder if he's now a stop gap guy instead of a long term player on the team.

I'd love to see Studdard's tenacity make the team but I think he's got one year or so left for PS eligibility.

On a side note is anyone else seeing a David Anderson vs Grice-Mullins battle for the 5th WR spot?

I think you are spot on regarding the variables described above. I would add versatility, in addition to health and future prospects, as an important variable for making the squad. With the exception of LT, which may flip flop, I think we are set with the first team: Salaam/ Brown, Pitts, Meyers, Brisiel and Winston - 5.

6th Spot - Either Salaam or Brown. Salaam is our insurance policy for Brown this season.
7th Spot - Butler in entrenched at the back-up RT spot.

I think those 7 spots are set, barring injury. I think that competition is fierce for the remaining three spots. My picks are below, but think that the 9th, 10th and first two runners up could easily be interchangable.

8th Spot - Eslinger. The guy is young, has experience in the ZBS system and has the body type for the system. He is also a guy that can move over to guard if necessary.
9th Spot - Studdard. Just a hunch. The knock on him last year was that he may be a little small, which may work to his advantage in the current system. He has a mean streak that the coaches like. He was ahead of Frye last year and I don't see why that changes.
10th Spot - Spencer. If he is back healthy, he has the updside, versatility and tenacity to take a chance on. Everyone sees him projected as a guard, but if he can get a full season under his belt, I think he would have the ability to move to tackle. I think we know sooner than later on Spencer.
First Runner Up - White. I was rootnig for White last season and was disappointed when he got hurt. He is a guy that has put his time in and has experiance and can play both guard and center. All things equal, if we think if we can keep Studdard on the PS without risk of losing him, maybe he takes that spot.
Second Runner Up - Weary. It is hard to complain too much about his production, but I think this team is looking forward. He is coming off injury and has a one year deal. All things equal, I think one of the younger guys takes his spot.
Third Runner Up - Frye. The potential may be there, but I think you can keep this guy on the PS one more year.

One thing is for sure, you have to believe that the final 10 will be a strong group. The competition should bring out the best in this unit.

bigbrewster2000
05-13-2008, 03:22 PM
He probably ment pup
He probably did. But he still didnt say it so I was just covering the angle.

I dunno, but don't think they've got that much invested in Fred ? Actually the only OLineman who is a big investment at this time is Brown. Maybe Chester still has a fair chunk of unamortized cap on the books ?
I'm not hopeful about Spencer. Reports are is that he is still walking with a limp. Frankly, his chances just don't sound very good.

They have just over a million with some playing time escelators in his contract. While in the grand scheme of things it's not alot, it would still be a waste of money to sign a guy to a 1 year contract to just ut him on the IR.

We really dont know what the contract for Brown is going to be but the 26th overall pick wont make that much. He probably wont make more than 1.5 mil this year. Which incidentally is a little less than the max that Fred Weary could make this year.

I am not really hopeful about Spencer either but it is still worth him getting the chance to prove himself. The only thing that you give up at this point by giving Spencer a little playing time is reps for Brown. And you dont really have to give Spencer that many reps to see what he can do. And if you run him on the 2nd squad instead of the 1st then Brown doesnt lose any reps.

HOU-TEX
05-13-2008, 03:22 PM
Pittman is on the roster (http://www.houstontexans.com/team/Roster.html) as a Long Snapper (http://www.houstontexans.com/team/player.asp?player_id=55).

Hey, Long Snappers are people, too.

Heck yeah we are!

Signed,

Tyler Schmitt (LS) San Diego State.
Seattle's 6th round pick

PHAROAH
05-13-2008, 03:29 PM
Here is my Lineup at the season opener.



Starters:


RT* Eric Winston 6'7" 310
RG* Charles Spencer 6'5" 350
C* Chris Myers 6'4" 300
LG* Chester Pitts 6'3" 320
LT* Duane Brown 6'4" 308


Backups

RT* Rashad Butler 6'4" 298
RG* Fred Weary 6'4" 308
C* Greg Eslinger 6'4" 295
LG* Mike Brisiel 6'5" 300
LT* Ephraim Salaam 6'7" 300


Go Texans!!!!

BigTimeTexanFan
05-13-2008, 03:34 PM
If the coaches see enough out of Brown to man the LT spot and Spencer is healthy enough to play I thin k the Oline will look like this:
Brown Pitts Myers Spencer Winston
That has the potential to be a very good Oline. I still think we need to keep Salaam because he is a very capable Tackle. Let Spencer gain some experience and prove that he is healthy. If he does, then Spencer becomes very valuable because hge can now be a swing Tackle while being a starting guard. I say this because it is easier to plug someone in as guard if Spencer has to slide over to tackle. It's a very good problem to have, one that we have never had before.

badboy
05-13-2008, 03:34 PM
If Weary goes on IR he cant play. If they did that it would have been a waste of money. I could definantly see him on the PUP list at the begining of the season though for the purpose that you stated above.

And I also want to see if Spencer can play LT still. If he can do it then we have or starter and his back up for the next 10 years. :cool:
Think I got the two confused. Is it PUP that allows player to come back after 5 games or so?

Goldensilence
05-13-2008, 03:34 PM
That's the problem I keep coming to. There's just so many player I think should make this team and a limited number of spots. First and foremost I look at the OL and RB positions- I could easily fill 15 spots between the two of them. Throw in the necessary QB, TE, FB and I run out of room for these Wide outs. I would like to see 5 because 4 just doesn't seem like enough.

Back to your question- I definitely see that happening. I think Darnell Jenkins (the other rookie fa) just sounds like he'd be a good football player. Havn't seen much of either though, so I think it'd be Anderson's job to lose.

For those that have, how similar type of player is Anderson compared to Grice-Mullins and Jenkins?? And what would we be looking for out of our 5th wide out? I see Johnson, Walter, and even Jacoby so to speak as good possession receivers- Davis a speedster HR threat. And I see Slaton being used in the slot some... I suspect we'd be looking for another 'smaller' faster type of WR?

I agree on thinking we'll see 5 WR. I have heard Grice-Mullins is fast and great hands. Can't recall perfectly as I really didn't get to see a lot of the Texans games last year because of work and school as the season wore on. I rememeber David Anderson having good hands but not enough speed. You'll have to help me on this one.

I think with Davis coming on last year like he did this WR corps is deep and complete across the board. Not too bad considering some people last preseason thought we were throwing anything on the wall and hoping it'd stick at WR. I think LB this year has the possibility to make the same jump.

I think you are spot on regarding the variables described above. I would add versatility, in addition to health and future prospects, as an important variable for making the squad. With the exception of LT, which may flip flop, I think we are set with the first team: Salaam/ Brown, Pitts, Meyers, Brisiel and Winston - 5.

6th Spot - Either Salaam or Brown. Salaam is our insurance policy for Brown this season.
7th Spot - Butler in entrenched at the back-up RT spot.

I think those 7 spots are set, barring injury. I think that competition is fierce for the remaining three spots. My picks are below, but think that the 9th, 10th and first two runners up could easily be interchangable.

8th Spot - Eslinger. The guy is young, has experience in the ZBS system and has the body type for the system. He is also a guy that can move over to guard if necessary.
9th Spot - Studdard. Just a hunch. The knock on him last year was that he may be a little small, which may work to his advantage in the current system. He has a mean streak that the coaches like. He was ahead of Frye last year and I don't see why that changes.
10th Spot - Spencer. If he is back healthy, he has the updside, versatility and tenacity to take a chance on. Everyone sees him projected as a guard, but if he can get a full season under his belt, I think he would have the ability to move to tackle. I think we know sooner than later on Spencer.
First Runner Up - White. I was rootnig for White last season and was disappointed when he got hurt. He is a guy that has put his time in and has experiance and can play both guard and center. All things equal, if we think if we can keep Studdard on the PS without risk of losing him, maybe he takes that spot.
Second Runner Up - Weary. It is hard to complain too much about his production, but I think this team is looking forward. He is coming off injury and has a one year deal. All things equal, I think one of the younger guys takes his spot.
Third Runner Up - Frye. The potential may be there, but I think you can keep this guy on the PS one more year.

One thing is for sure, you have to believe that the final 10 will be a strong group. The competition should bring out the best in this unit.

Agree on the strong unit no matter who starts with the way the TC battles are setting up. I thought I saw some video on Spencer on HT.com coming out of his stance. He looked good for a guy trying to get back into playing shape. I know people are talking about the limp but as his weight gets back down and he starts to fully trust the leg again I think we'll see a difference.

badboy
05-13-2008, 03:38 PM
Concerning Spencer. On yesterday morning 610 radio program I caught Mark and Andre both casting doubts on Charles looking like he will make it back. Not sure exactly if they meant as LT or at RG or at all.

D-ReK
05-13-2008, 03:38 PM
Think I got the two confused. Is it PUP that allows player to come back after 5 games or so?

It's 6 games. After 6 games, the team has the option to activate him at any point between the 6th game and the 10th week of the season. If he is not activated by week 10, he must be placed on IR, ending his season.

infantrycak
05-13-2008, 03:47 PM
It's 6 games. After 6 games, the team has the option to activate him at any point between the 6th game and the 10th week of the season. If he is not activated by week 10, he must be placed on IR, ending his season.

To expound--players on PUP cannot practice with the team. Between weeks 6 and 10 a team can have a player practice with the team for two weeks and then must either IR him or put him on the active roster. So start practicing week 6, a decision must be made week 8. Start practicing week 8, a decision must be made week 10.

barrett
05-13-2008, 04:04 PM
Brown Salaam
Pitts Frye
Myers Eslinger
Spencer Briesel
Winston Butler

Studdard, is he P.S. eligible
C. White PUP


Who knows... I think Salaam may get cut if they're confident in spencer's health. I've got Weary and Studdard not making the squad- those are a couple tough cuts. Also, I've got 10 on the roster when it's unlikely we carry more than 9.

I don't know... this is going to be a tough camp!

i agree with the possibility of Salaam getting cut. It's hard to swallow how cut throat NFL organizations can be but it's the nature of the game. Look at McKinney. As soon as you are expendable you are gone. It's the nature of the game.

It's a big if but IF Spencer comes back strong as a guard and they are confident in his health and mental state after two years of no football then It wouldn't suprise me in the slightest to keep him on as a guard who is capable of playing LT with Butler staying on as the official "swing tackle" but at that point you've got several guys on the line that can play multiple positions which is exactly what you need to be successful when you have a limited number of roster spots. Having a guy like Spencer IF he's healthy is extremely valuable and frees up a roster spot. (see the decision to keep less WR's last year because of Jacoby Jones' apparent ability to be productive on special teams as well as some natural ability to compete at a high level at WR strait out of college. or two years ago we kept one less guard because McKinney could play both guard and center)

Ole Miss Texan
05-13-2008, 04:12 PM
AJ is far more than a "possession receiver."

Thanks for critiqueing such an integral part of the post... ;)

I guess I really gotta be careful how to phrase things- trying not to be long winded and trying not to completely derail this thread from OL to WR.

I was really intending to talk more about their size:
A. Johnson 6'3 219lbs
K. Walter 6'3 214lbs
J. Jones 6'2 210lbs

So I don't see us needing another 'big man' wide receiver.

Andre Davis 6'1 195lbs

Battle for the 5th spot- Small 'slot' type of wr or deep threat?
David Anderson 5'10 194lbs
Ryan Grice Mullins 5'10 187 lbs
Darnell Jenkins 5'10 188lbs

DocBar
05-13-2008, 09:43 PM
I don't see them making any changes at LS. Pittman has been excellent and so has K. Brown and Turk. Why mess with the chemistry when Special Teams was such a strength the last couple of years? As for the rest of the O-line, may the best men win. I'm glad we can start cutting decent players because they aren't good enough for our team. It shows we're actually making FORWARD progress.:fans:

dalemurphy
05-14-2008, 12:58 AM
Here's what I think you'd get from Kubiak in a very candid moment:

If everything works out perfectly this off-season: Spencer is totally healthy, Brown is ready to start, etc... This is what his ideal OL would be:

LT: brown
LG: pitts
C: myers
RG: Winston
Rt: Spencer

Winston is going to have more quickness to get to the second level and cross the MLB on the stretch play. Spencer has the brute strength, punch, and arm length ideal for RT. I don't think this is a likely scenario, but if we see it, I think this could be a great OL!

BigTimeTexanFan
05-14-2008, 09:26 AM
I would not move Winston to guard. He is becoming an excellent RT.

nunusguy
05-14-2008, 09:39 AM
I would not move Winston to guard. He is becoming an excellent RT.

Which is kinda a surprise since he's always been considered a finess sort of OLineman who seems more of a fit at LT where he played in college, notwithstand reservations some have about his arm length.

TK_Gamer
05-14-2008, 10:09 AM
what worries me about Spencer being at RT is the scheme. In zone blocking, you basicly have a sideways moving frieght train clearing a lane for the running back. Depending on wich way the run goes, either the LT is the engine and the RT is the caboose, or vice versa. The 2 tackles have to be the most athletic because they will need to do alot of the backside cutblocks. if the run goes right the LT will have backside close-off, a run left it will be the RT. My point is the tackles need to be the most consitent linemen we have, and I think we need to let them perfect the system with 100% healthy and mobile guys or the lineman around the gimp guy will have to take up the slack constantly or we will have alot of busted run plays.

BigTimeTexanFan
05-14-2008, 10:14 AM
If Spencer can regain his form, I think he could be an awesome guard because of his size combined with his athleticism. He is a huge cog in the middle of the Oline that can help the center with the bigger DT while also being quick enough to pulle and get to the next level. Again, assuming he makes it back to his old form. We have a chance of having a good Oline.

threetoedpete
05-14-2008, 10:20 AM
IMO:

Tackles
* Duane Brown 6'4" 308
* Brandon Frye 6'4" 302
* Ephraim Salaam 6'7" 300
* Eric Winston 6'7" 310

Guards
* Mike Brisiel 6'5" 300
* Chester Pitts 6'3" 320
* Kasey Studdard 6'2" 302
* Fred Weary 6'4" 308

Centers
* Greg Eslinger 6'3" 292
* Chris Myers 6'4" 300

I don't know who's eligiable for PS or anything so I won't get into that, but these are the guys I think will be on our opening roster.

Really tough choices there.



They aren't keeping ten. unless they can squirel someone away on the IR out of camp. They won't gamble with Pittman. and....they should keep an extra DT this season. The theme this season is getting younger, quicker. I posted earlier...Weary and Pitts are on thier way out.


Salaam didn't start breaking down untill he had piled alot of games on his legs...he isn't going anywhere. He'll be slotted where he was supposed to be in the first place. Back up swing Tackel.

BigTimeTexanFan
05-14-2008, 10:30 AM
I don't think Pitts is on his way out. He is one of our best and consistant Olineman. Now Weary on the other hand...

bigbrewster2000
05-14-2008, 10:30 AM
They aren't keeping ten. unless they can squirel someone away on the IR out of camp. They won't gamble with Pittman. and....they should keep an extra DT this season. The theme this season is getting younger, quicker. I posted earlier...Weary and Pitts are on thier way out.


Salaam didn't start breaking down untill he had piled alot of games on his legs...he isn't going anywhere. He'll be slotted where he was supposed to be in the first place. Back up swing Tackel.

While I agree that Weary could be out, it's for the reason that he may not come back from injury, not age. There is no way Pitts is going anywhere. He is our best and most consisant player on our line. What exactly is it that you have against Pitts? 30 is not even close to old for a lineman. The only old lineman we have is Salaam.

threetoedpete
05-14-2008, 10:35 AM
Here's what I think you'd get from Kubiak in a very candid moment:

If everything works out perfectly this off-season: Spencer is totally healthy, Brown is ready to start, etc... This is what his ideal OL would be:

LT: brown
LG: pitts
C: myers
RG: Winston
Rt: Spencer

Winston is going to have more quickness to get to the second level and cross the MLB on the stretch play. Spencer has the brute strength, punch, and arm length ideal for RT. I don't think this is a likely scenario, but if we see it, I think this could be a great OL!


Can you have a 6'7" LG. why not ? He is the most athletic o-lineman they've got. Pitts and Spencer have the best shot at making the switch to RT.
Only negtive I can think of is passing lanes.

I think if they are going to bow their necks with Brown it make sense to move Winston into the LG spot. I posted befor, you don't put your most athletic lineman into a phone booth.

Pitts has become more of a pile driver than ZBS LG.
That belongs on the right side. He has trouble on the second level executing blocks. The only one who doesn't is Winston. I put that at LG.
We'll see if Gibbs agrees.

infantrycak
05-14-2008, 10:41 AM
We'll see if Gibbs agrees.

He won't. When he doesn't can we please have an end of the get rid of Pitts and move Winston arguments?--Gibbs is the guru after all.

BigTimeTexanFan
05-14-2008, 10:45 AM
Winston is a cornerstone on our Oline. Why would you move him to guard and replace him with an unexperienced guy to man the RT spot? It doesn't make sense.

threetoedpete
05-14-2008, 10:48 AM
He won't. When he doesn't can we please have an end of the get rid of Pitts and move Winston arguments?--Gibbs is the guru after all.

Got 'er marked. They're not going to war with Pitts at LG. We're not pile driving Green bay power gaame any more....supposedly. and if that is true...pitts is either toast or moving. But that is my last one except of course, for the ITYS in September.
Mr. Cak.

Vinny
05-14-2008, 11:46 AM
Got 'er marked. They're not going to war with Pitts at LG. We're not pile driving Green bay power gaame any more....supposedly. and if that is true...pitts is either toast or moving. But that is my last one except of course, for the ITYS in September.
Mr. Cak.
Pitts isn't even what I consider a "mauler" Guard. I certainly don't see him as a piledriver kind of Guard...he is a finesse guy wrapped up in a big body. Pitts has the feet to do what Gibbs wants as far as I'm concerned. He's smart enough too. Hopefully he can get his mean on.

barrett
05-14-2008, 12:11 PM
i can't help but wonder if there is alot of turnover on the line with guys moving to different positions (and there very well may be), what will the learning curve be and how will it effect us in those first 5 games? we have probably the hardest first 5 games of anyone in the league. we are going to have to be super prepared come week 1!

badboy
05-14-2008, 12:24 PM
Pitts isn't even what I consider a "mauler" Guard. I certainly don't see him as a piledriver kind of Guard...he is a finesse guy wrapped up in a big body. Pitts has the feet to do what Gibbs wants as far as I'm concerned. He's smart enough too. Hopefully he can get his mean on.Now ya talking!!

dalemurphy
05-14-2008, 12:26 PM
Winston is a cornerstone on our Oline. Why would you move him to guard and replace him with an unexperienced guy to man the RT spot? It doesn't make sense.

Because the personnel and scheme has changed!!

I don't know that it will happen, but my point is valid:

A healthy Spencer at RT and Winston at RG in a strict ZBS makes for a very strong line. That is no indictment against Winston. Again, Winston's agility and athleticism is the reason he could excel at guard in the ZBS. The guard often has to cross the face of the MLB when the play is flowing away from them. I don't know that Spencer can do that, but I think Winston could.

Texans_Chick
05-14-2008, 12:34 PM
Pitts isn't even what I consider a "mauler" Guard. I certainly don't see him as a piledriver kind of Guard...he is a finesse guy wrapped up in a big body. Pitts has the feet to do what Gibbs wants as far as I'm concerned. He's smart enough too.

Well said.

I think it is way too early to say who stays or goes because it isn't like these guys have all played together on a line for a long time.

You can have nice words about a Seth Wand early in camp, and then find out that he gets cut by the end.

BTW, as long as we are having a discussion about WRs, did anyone else notice that in the video with DeMeco and AJ, AJ talks about how it is good for him to be out running around because he has been doing mostly rehabbing?

He played on his hurt knee at the end of the season, but truly the only treatment for it is to strengthen the muscles around it.

Don't mean to be alarmist about that, but I found it to be a surprising comment to me.

barrett
05-14-2008, 12:43 PM
i noticed it but am in complete denial about any injuries that may be lingering.

BigTimeTexanFan
05-14-2008, 01:39 PM
Because the personnel and scheme has changed!!

I don't know that it will happen, but my point is valid:

A healthy Spencer at RT and Winston at RG in a strict ZBS makes for a very strong line. That is no indictment against Winston. Again, Winston's agility and athleticism is the reason he could excel at guard in the ZBS. The guard often has to cross the face of the MLB when the play is flowing away from them. I don't know that Spencer can do that, but I think Winston could.

If Spencer can't do that then he certaintly isn't athletic enough to play RT. I just think since Winston has already proven he can man the RT spot witgh great efficiency, why would you change that and create an unknown at two positions?

infantrycak
05-14-2008, 03:10 PM
A healthy Spencer at RT and Winston at RG in a strict ZBS makes for a very strong line. That is no indictment against Winston. Again, Winston's agility and athleticism is the reason he could excel at guard in the ZBS. The guard often has to cross the face of the MLB when the play is flowing away from them. I don't know that Spencer can do that, but I think Winston could.

If, obviously big IF, Spencer can return to form he has the athleticism to do exactly that. Plus he has the size to play the Haynesworths of the league. Seriously, he has a much better chance IF healthy to dump Haynesworth on his ass than Winston does.

beerlover
05-14-2008, 03:38 PM
If, obviously big IF, Spencer can return to form he has the athleticism to do exactly that. Plus he has the size to play the Haynesworths of the league. Seriously, he has a much better chance IF healthy to dump Haynesworth on his ass than Winston does.

I wonder how much specific match-ups dictate who Gibbs uses? for instance do the Texans use the same 5 pretty much every down or would they use some platoon system to the Texans advanatage. in this scenero if you ask Spencer to slide inside to RG, for example & knock Haynesworth on his butt, I'm sure he would relish the assingment.

bottom line having flexability with linemen who can fill in & play multiple positions should be a strengh of Gibbs group.

:)

HOU-TEX
05-14-2008, 04:07 PM
I wonder how much specific match-ups dictate who Gibbs uses? for instance do the Texans use the same 5 pretty much every down or would they use some platoon system to the Texans advanatage. in this scenero if you ask Spencer to slide inside to RG, for example & knock Haynesworth on his butt, I'm sure he would relish the assingment.

bottom line having flexability with linemen who can fill in & play multiple positions should be a strengh of Gibbs group.

:)

I would assume barring any injuries it'd be the same 5. Especially considering the ZBS is considered unstoppable when all 5 work in unison. I'd think mixing and matching would be more detrimental than benefical due to the "gel" factor.

dalemurphy
05-14-2008, 05:27 PM
why would you change that and create an unknown at two positions?


Well, first, it's not an unknown that Spencer can play tackle- There is no reason to think he'd struggle at RT.

Second, when the two were drafted, even though all of Winston's experience was at tackle and Spencer's experience at guard, the coaching staff projected Spencer at LT and Winston as a guard. Why?.. Spencer had the big punch and are length that Winston lacked. Both men were very athletic. Of course, Winston being a former TE and 30 lbs lighter is quicker on his feet.

Third, in the ZBS, more athleticism is required at guard because of what he is asked to do. Particularly at RT, agility is de-emphasized a little because usually you are facing a bigger, slower DE and also because the scheme doesn't require, usually, to cross the face of a LB at the second level while the play is working away from you.

Fourth, this is something that would be worked out in training camp and preseason. I'm not suggesting a change simply be made on a whim in week three.

If Spencer were to be 100% healthy, do you honestly believe that Winston would be a better tackle than Spencer?

Perhaps Spencer would be the better guard in a power blocking scheme but I don't see it in a ZBS. I think Winston would be a probowl caliber guard with Gibbs.

barrett
05-14-2008, 05:39 PM
poor duane brown. even STILL we're all talking about BIG NASTY. i'd love to get him back and see him succeed.

why do we love this man so much?

i know i do. is it because he was the first "answer at LT finally!!!!" all i can remember is the sense i got from Kubiak about what a steal they'd landed and that we were gonna be set at that position.

for the record i wish the best for brown as well but it's just great to hear us talking about where spencer is going to dominate not "it would've been nice if his career hadn't ended".

Lucky
05-14-2008, 05:43 PM
Well, first, it's not an unknown that Spencer can play tackle- There is no reason to think he'd struggle at RT.
The guy hasn't played football in 2 years. There's every reason to believe he will struggle in training camp just to get back into football shape.

If Spencer can get into shape, and that's a big if considering the poor conditioning he's had for the past 18 months, maybe he can challenge for a backup role at some position TBD. And if he proves he can get through an NFL training camp and season uninjured, maybe Spencer makes a run at a starting job in '09. But this is absolutely the wrong time to experiment with position changes on an offensive line that needs to gel by week 1.

barrett
05-14-2008, 05:47 PM
no doubt a quick start out of the gates is crucial.

dalemurphy
05-14-2008, 05:48 PM
The guy hasn't played football in 2 years. There's every reason to believe he will struggle in training camp just to get back into football shape.

If Spencer can get into shape, and that's a big if considering the poor conditioning he's had for the past 18 months, maybe he can challenge for a backup role at some position TBD. And if he proves he can get through an NFL training camp and season uninjured, maybe Spencer makes a run at a starting job in '09. But this is absolutely the wrong time to experiment with position changes on an offensive line that needs to gel by week 1.

This whole argument is predicated on the unlikely assumption that Spencer his totally healthy for the preseason. So, it's not much of a counter argument to say that he probably won't be healthy. I've already said that.

If you read my original post, I suggested that if someone was talking to Kubiak during a candid moment and asked him what his ideal vision for the OL would be, it would be DBrown at LT.... a totally healthy Spencer at RT with Winston sliding into RG. I'm simply trying to illustrate what an amazing Oline that could be if everything worked out just right- which, as a Texan fan is pretty hard to imagine.

Lucky
05-14-2008, 06:07 PM
This whole argument is predicated on the unlikely assumption that Spencer his totally healthy for the preseason.
Spencer has been given the medical OK to practice. Really, if he's not OK to go by training camp, he becomes another Boselli or Joppru and should be cut loose. I'm not talking about having the full range in his knee as prior to the injury. Just medically cleared, which he pretty much is.

That doesn't mean Spencer is in shape. Certainly not the kind of shape necessary to perform in Gibbs blocking scheme. Bringing in a new LT & C is daring enough. But, the talent level had to be upgraded. The talent level at RT & LG is just fine. The winner of a Weary-Brisiel battle should be OK at RG. There's no room to experiment with a big ? like Spencer. He needs to take this time to get in condition, learn as many positions as possible, and be ready to backup. With Salaam, Butler, and Frye competing for backup spots, I'd give Spencer less than a 50% chance to make this team.

BigTimeTexanFan
05-14-2008, 08:49 PM
Well, first, it's not an unknown that Spencer can play tackle- There is no reason to think he'd struggle at RT.

Second, when the two were drafted, even though all of Winston's experience was at tackle and Spencer's experience at guard, the coaching staff projected Spencer at LT and Winston as a guard. Why?.. Spencer had the big punch and are length that Winston lacked. Both men were very athletic. Of course, Winston being a former TE and 30 lbs lighter is quicker on his feet.

Third, in the ZBS, more athleticism is required at guard because of what he is asked to do. Particularly at RT, agility is de-emphasized a little because usually you are facing a bigger, slower DE and also because the scheme doesn't require, usually, to cross the face of a LB at the second level while the play is working away from you.

Fourth, this is something that would be worked out in training camp and preseason. I'm not suggesting a change simply be made on a whim in week three.

If Spencer were to be 100% healthy, do you honestly believe that Winston would be a better tackle than Spencer?

Perhaps Spencer would be the better guard in a power blocking scheme but I don't see it in a ZBS. I think Winston would be a probowl caliber guard with Gibbs.
There is no reason to think he would succeed either. If Spencer is such a known commodity, then why isn't he slotted as the LT. What is known is that Winston can play RT very well. When was the last time Spencer played RT? When was the last time Winston played RG? Never, that's why I'm saying there would be two unknowns. There's an old saying "If it aint broke, don't fix it." If Spencer can make it back healthy, he has the size, strength, and athleticism to be an interior Olineman. I just want the best player at each position.

Mr PC
05-14-2008, 10:54 PM
T: Brown, Salaam, Winston
G: Pitts, Weary, Salaam, Brisiel
C: Myers, Eslinger
LS: Pittman



is Butler eligible for the practice squad? I hope so.

dalemurphy
05-15-2008, 12:41 AM
There is no reason to think he would succeed either. If Spencer is such a known commodity, then why isn't he slotted as the LT. What is known is that Winston can play RT very well. When was the last time Spencer played RT? When was the last time Winston played RG? Never, that's why I'm saying there would be two unknowns. There's an old saying "If it aint broke, don't fix it." If Spencer can make it back healthy, he has the size, strength, and athleticism to be an interior Olineman. I just want the best player at each position.



Are you people not reading my posts, or do you struggle with comprehension?

He is a known commodity if healthy. Once again, the argument is based on the assumption that he's totally healthy- something that I stated is not likely. However, if he is totally healthy, clearly he would be a good RT. It's silly to argue otherwise. That man can play!

With the talent on the team now, Brown would likely fit better on the left and Spencer on the right. Remember, the team originally drafted Winson with the intention of making him a guard.

dalemurphy
05-15-2008, 12:46 AM
T: Brown, Salaam, Winston
G: Pitts, Weary, Salaam, Brisiel
C: Myers, Eslinger
LS: Pittman



is Butler eligible for the practice squad? I hope so.

No, I think we took him off another P.S and therefore had to keep him on the roster all season. That makes him ineligible for it this year.

If Butler can play he should be able to beat out Salaam. Salaam needs to get cut. I appreciate his efforts the past two seasons but some of these younger and superior athletes like Butler, Frye, Spencer need to step up and replace him now.

BigTimeTexanFan
05-15-2008, 11:12 AM
Are you people not reading my posts, or do you struggle with comprehension?

He is a known commodity if healthy. Once again, the argument is based on the assumption that he's totally healthy- something that I stated is not likely. However, if he is totally healthy, clearly he would be a good RT. It's silly to argue otherwise. That man can play!

With the talent on the team now, Brown would likely fit better on the left and Spencer on the right. Remember, the team originally drafted Winson with the intention of making him a guard.

I understand what you're saying, I just don't agree with it. Let's assume Spencer is completely healthy, he still has only played one and a half games as a pro. How is that a known commodity. We know Winston is a ver good RT, so why change things up. Just because Spencer looked promising in his 1 1/2 games at LT doesn't mean he can automatically move to the right side and succeed. I just want the best player at each position and if that means Spencedr plays RT and Winston plays RG then fine. At this point, I just don't see that happening. That's all.

BigBull17
05-15-2008, 11:23 AM
I think we keep 9. 3 T, 2 G, 2 G/C, 1 G/T, and a C. Our staff likes versitle.

Pitts, Winston, Salaam, Weary, Myers, Brown, Briesle, White, Spencer.

Number19
05-15-2008, 02:23 PM
Spencer has been given the medical OK to practice. Really, if he's not OK to go by training camp, he becomes another Boselli or Joppru and should be cut loose. I'm not talking about having the full range in his knee as prior to the injury. Just medically cleared, which he pretty much is.

That doesn't mean Spencer is in shape. Certainly not the kind of shape necessary to perform in Gibbs blocking scheme. Bringing in a new LT & C is daring enough. But, the talent level had to be upgraded. The talent level at RT & LG is just fine. The winner of a Weary-Brisiel battle should be OK at RG. There's no room to experiment with a big ? like Spencer. He needs to take this time to get in condition, learn as many positions as possible, and be ready to backup. With Salaam, Butler, and Frye competing for backup spots, I'd give Spencer less than a 50% chance to make this team.Something I haven't seen mentioned anywhere, is that if Spencer is unable to get himself into "playing condition" sufficiently to win a spot on the team outright, would he be eligible for the practice squad. He was on the active roster for, what, only two games?

Goldensilence
05-15-2008, 02:47 PM
I understand what you're saying, I just don't agree with it. Let's assume Spencer is completely healthy, he still has only played one and a half games as a pro. How is that a known commodity. We know Winston is a ver good RT, so why change things up. Just because Spencer looked promising in his 1 1/2 games at LT doesn't mean he can automatically move to the right side and succeed. I just want the best player at each position and if that means Spencedr plays RT and Winston plays RG then fine. At this point, I just don't see that happening. That's all.

Excellent post and i agree on Spencer really being a known "commodity". I hate using economic terms for people. If he's a proven player that's one thing but you're right. 1 1/2 games looking promising at LT doesn't = proven player add that to two years away from the line. Good luck geting Winston out of that RT spot.

I think if Spencer wants to make this team it's going to have to be at guard.Good news is he was all Big East at guard which is probably his more natural position anyway.

Picking Duane Brown in the first has this team moving forward at the Tackle position from here out. Signing Weary to a one year deal is a big signal to me FWIW that we're going to be moving forward at RG as well.From what I've heard Pitts looked great at mini camp.

BigBull17
05-15-2008, 02:53 PM
Something I haven't seen mentioned anywhere, is that if Spencer is unable to get himself into "playing condition" sufficiently to win a spot on the team outright, would he be eligible for the practice squad. He was on the active roster for, what, only two games?

He may have some time left, but he may make it because he could fill in at Tackle as a last resort.

Lucky
05-15-2008, 03:30 PM
Something I haven't seen mentioned anywhere, is that if Spencer is unable to get himself into "playing condition" sufficiently to win a spot on the team outright, would he be eligible for the practice squad. He was on the active roster for, what, only two games?

Number19? Haven't heard from you in awhile.

That's a good question, and one probably aj or Keith at inthebullseye (http://www.inthebullseye.com/forums/)
might have an answer readily available. Here's what the famous Miguel at patscap.com (http://www.patscap.com/capsources.html) has to say.

Quoting Section 7 of Article 38 of the CBA, " For purposes of calculating Credited Seasons under this Article only, a player shall earn one Credited Season for each season during which he was on, or should have been on, full pay status for a total of three or more regular season games, but which, irrespective of the player's pay status, shall not include games for which this player was on: (i) the Exempt Commissioner Permission List; (ii) the Reserve PUP List as a result of a non-football injury; (iii) a Club's Practice or Developmental Squad; or (iv) a Club's Injured Reserve List."


Quoting Section 1 of Article 18 of the CBA,
"(a) For the purposes of calculating Accrued Seasons under this Agreement a player shall receive one Accrued Season for each season during which he was on, or should have been on, full pay status for a total of six or more regular season games, but which, irrespective of the player's pay status, shall not include games for which the player was on: (i) the Exempt Commissioner Permission List, (ii) the Reserve PUP List as a result of a nonfootball injury, or (iii) a Club's Practice or Development Squad."


How many accrued seasons a player has also affects his eligibility for the practice squad. According to the CBA, "the practice squad shall consist of the following players, provided that they have not served more than one previous season on a Practice Squad: (i) players who do not have an Accrued Season of NFL experience; and (ii) free agent players who were on the Active List for fewer than nine regular season games during their only Accrued Season(s). No player may be a practice squad player for more than two seasons.
First, Spencer would have to be waived and clear waivers after the 53 man roster was set. Spencer would have 2 accrued seasons, since he spent 14 weeks on IR in '06 and the entire '07 season on IR. But, he was only on the Active List for 2 games in his career, which is fewer than the 9 game limit. So my guess is that Spencer would be eligible for the practice squad.

Number19
05-15-2008, 03:47 PM
I've been over at the now defunct HPF, but most recently, haven't been paying much attention to football - spending my free time supporting Ron Paul. When HPF went belly up, I re-found TexansTalk. I've also found the new InTheBullsEye.

mussop
05-15-2008, 04:57 PM
Got this from Cron blogs


http://blogs.chron.com/fanblogtexans/2008/05/running_away_from_injuries_run.html

Hey TH,

You responded to a comment about Spencer moving to Guard "It's not looking good for Spencer according to Kubiak."

Can you elaborate in a future posting. I'm curious to find out if this is due to the injury or the switch in position. Also is it so bad that we may cut him, or would he probably just move to 2nd string.

Obviously you may have not gotten that much from Kubes.

I've been painstakingly waiting to hear anything about Spencer for the last two years. I thought for a while that he was rehabing at Area 51.

Thanks,
Big Lou

BL,

The next time we see Charles Spencer, he may be at Area 51 having the Govt. doing some type of alien autopsy on that morbid obese body he has become. I kind of feel sorry for the guy, but he should have stayed in better shape, unless he's dealing with mental or physical problems. -TH

From what I am hearing in the organization, Spencer's weight is up to 350+ pounds now and he has lost a great deal of maneuverability and speed. Kubiak has no choice but to move him to guard in that kind of shape and condition. The guy is huge, but not in a good football way, if you know what I am implying? Please let me know if this helps and makes Spencer's puzzle a little more clear. Take care. -TH

Dont know how accurate this is. The guy answered the same question twice. Wierd! But anyway, has anyone seem him lately? Is this true? If so it just makes me hate the chron even more after all those feel good articles about Spencers earlier in the year.

HOU-TEX
05-15-2008, 05:09 PM
Got this from Cron blogs


http://blogs.chron.com/fanblogtexans/2008/05/running_away_from_injuries_run.html

Hey TH,

You responded to a comment about Spencer moving to Guard "It's not looking good for Spencer according to Kubiak."

Can you elaborate in a future posting. I'm curious to find out if this is due to the injury or the switch in position. Also is it so bad that we may cut him, or would he probably just move to 2nd string.

Obviously you may have not gotten that much from Kubes.

I've been painstakingly waiting to hear anything about Spencer for the last two years. I thought for a while that he was rehabing at Area 51.

Thanks,
Big Lou

BL,

The next time we see Charles Spencer, he may be at Area 51 having the Govt. doing some type of alien autopsy on that morbid obese body he has become. I kind of feel sorry for the guy, but he should have stayed in better shape, unless he's dealing with mental or physical problems. -TH

From what I am hearing in the organization, Spencer's weight is up to 350+ pounds now and he has lost a great deal of maneuverability and speed. Kubiak has no choice but to move him to guard in that kind of shape and condition. The guy is huge, but not in a good football way, if you know what I am implying? Please let me know if this helps and makes Spencer's puzzle a little more clear. Take care. -TH

Dont know how accurate this is. The guy answered the same question twice. Wierd! But anyway, has anyone seem him lately? Is this true? If so it just makes me hate the chron even more after all those feel good articles about Spencers earlier in the year.

I quit reading this guy's blog. There have been several times he's said something that he couldn't back up with proof. Additionally, he agrees with practically everyone's posts. Back when TC ran the blog there were links to practically every statement she produced. She'd also let her own opinion be known rather than being a yes man/woman.

You see TC, you're missed dearly from peeps you don't even know.

Runner
05-15-2008, 06:11 PM
First, Spencer would have to be waived and clear waivers after the 53 man roster was set. Spencer would have 2 accrued seasons, since he spent 14 weeks on IR in '06 and the entire '07 season on IR. But, he was only on the Active List for 2 games in his career, which is fewer than the 9 game limit. So my guess is that Spencer would be eligible for the practice squad.

Agreed.

Bennie was practice squad eligible when the Texans cut him. The Texans wanted to move him onto the practice squad, but he went to the Bears PS instead.

If Bennie could, no doubt Spencer could. Theoretically.

mussop
05-18-2008, 11:13 AM
I quit reading this guy's blog. There have been several times he's said something that he couldn't back up with proof. Additionally, he agrees with practically everyone's posts. Back when TC ran the blog there were links to practically every statement she produced. She'd also let her own opinion be known rather than being a yes man/woman.

Ok but still has anyone actually seen Spencer lately? Is he really bad out of shape?

PS I like youre sig. Not many people remember Karl Mecklenburg. Hes one of my favorite players of all time. I would watch Denver just to see him play. He was all out on every play.

Insideop
05-23-2008, 04:51 PM
Not real big news, but it does affect the O-Line. Just read from the Yahoo Sports article about Ahman Green that Chukky Okobi was put on IR. Anybody know why? I figured he was going to have trouble making this team and maybe this is a way to "shelve" him away for a season. Anyway, I guess we're down to 3 Centers now (Meyers, Eslinger, and White).

Here is the link http://us.rd.yahoo.com/sports/rss/nfl/SIG=12bgs3ckk/*http%3A//sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-texans-green&prov=ap&type=lgns but you have to go down to the bottom to the Notes section.

nunusguy
06-02-2008, 04:38 PM
At 6-2, 303 pounds, Studdard doesn’t boast the ideal body type for the zone blocking scheme the team is installing. The scheme typically requires quick, athletic offensive linemen, but Benton says that Studdard quickly has picked up his assignments.
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4350
******************************************
To me that's analogous to someone saying that outside of a player not having any speed or power, he'll be a good running-back because he knows which holes in the OLine to hit on the basis of the play called.
I dunno whether to be confused or discouraged by this statement from the Texans main website ?

76Texan
06-02-2008, 04:55 PM
At 6-2, 303 pounds, Studdard doesn’t boast the ideal body type for the zone blocking scheme the team is installing. The scheme typically requires quick, athletic offensive linemen, but Benton says that Studdard quickly has picked up his assignments.
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4350
******************************************
To me that's analogous to someone saying that outside of a player not having any speed or power, he'll be a good running-back because he knows which holes in the OLine to hit on the basis of the play called.
I dunno whether to be confused or discouraged by this statement from the Texans main website ?He has decent power but he's not very agile (footwork).

Like Flanagan, the guy didn't look pretty or athletic but he made a career for himself by masterring all the fundamentals and applying good techniques (like Bill Lambier in basketball.)

The Pencil Neck
06-02-2008, 04:56 PM
What's bothering me right now is that Frye has been injured a lot during the OTA's. That's not good. He's going to have to get healthy and kick some butt during Training Camp or he's PS, at best.

76Texan
06-02-2008, 05:19 PM
What's bothering me right now is that Frye has been injured a lot during the OTA's. That's not good. He's going to have to get healthy and kick some butt during Training Camp or he's PS, at best.
I remember being a little iffy about Frye when we took him last year.
I thought he has a shot to make the team, but I don't know if he can become a starter in the NFL.

As I reviewed Duane Brown's play (as a JR) against Gaines Adams (SR) and Phillip Merling (JR) (Clemson 2006), I mentioned that Frye (SR) didn't look too good (as the Tigers switch DE from side to side.)

It doesn't look any easier for Brandon now. He will have a task to make opening day roster.

Insideop
06-03-2008, 02:06 AM
I remember being a little iffy about Frye when we took him last year.
I thought he has a shot to make the team, but I don't know if he can become a starter in the NFL.

As I reviewed Duane Brown's play (as a JR) against Gaines Adams (SR) and Phillip Merling (JR) (Clemson 2006), I mentioned that Frye (SR) didn't look too good (as the Tigers switch DE from side to side.)

It doesn't look any easier for Brandon now. He will have a task to make opening day roster.

I remember having high hopes for Frye last year and then he got hurt the 1st day at TC. It's been down hill ever since, and now he's injured again. Not good! :gun:

da Bull
06-03-2008, 12:26 PM
In a thread a few weeks back I asked the VT trainer who was posting with regard to Adibi and Brown about Frye. IIRC, he stated that Frye was a great guy but was a so-so player at VT and battled to keep weight on (30 lbs.). Statistically (combine), he looks athletic like Brown but I don't think he proved to be what his stats projected him to be. However, I hope Brown doesn't follow along those same "projection" lines.

76Texan
06-03-2008, 06:01 PM
Oh well, you can't win them all, I guess!

I'm not sure about the 06 season, but in 07, Brown lined up agaisnt good competition almost every week, so I think he should be ready for the next level sooner than later.

It's about time we settle that LT position, dang it!
(Cross my fingers)

Insideop
07-23-2008, 04:06 PM
I haven't posted in awhile, but I've been reading the threads the past few weeks and just wanted to get some opinions on who you think will make it on Gibbs O-Line. After checking the roster, I found we have a total of 18 linemen, including Pittman, the Long Snapper, but excluding the TE's. A breakdown of the positions shows we have 7 Tackles, 6 Guards, 4 Centers and the LS. This doesn't take into account players who can play multiple positions which is a plus, and will probably go into the decision making by Kubes/Gibbs when it gets down to making cuts.

Here are the players listed by their primary position:

Tackles
* Jordan Black 6'5" 310 Cut
* Duane Brown 6'4" 308
* Rashad Butler 6'4" 293
* Brandon Frye 6'4" 302
* Ephraim Salaam 6'7" 300
* Charles Spencer 6'4" 352 Cut
* Eric Winston 6'7" 310

Guards
* Mike Brisiel 6'5" 300
* Scott Jackson 6'4" 300
* Chester Pitts 6'3" 320
* Dan Stevenson 6'5" 300 Cut
* Kasey Studdard 6'2" 302
* Fred Weary 6'4" 308

Centers
* Greg Eslinger 6'3" 292
* Chris Myers 6'4" 300
* Chukky Okobi 6'1" 305 IR then cut
* Chris White 6'2" 285
* Mark Fenton 6'4" 295 Added after cutting Okobi

The Texans carried 10 O-Linemen last year, counting Pittman, the LS. Assuming they carry 10 again this year, including Pittman, which of the remaining players do you think will make the team and who will be put on the Practice Squad (I'm not sure but I think only Frye and Studdard are PS eligible) if any? :user:

As of now this is the way I see it:
RT Winston, Salaam
RG Brisiel, Weary(if 100% recovered)
C Myers, Eslinger
LG Pitts, Spencer
LT Salaam (until Brown is ready)

PS Frye, Studdard
PUP/IR White

Well, just wanted to update where the team stands with the O-line before TC starts. After cutting Spencer and Stevenson yesterday, we are down to 14 O-linemen not counting Pittman. At this point, Brown still has not signed, but I expect that to happen soon.

At this time I see the line shaping up like this:
RT Winston, Salaam
RG Brisiel, Weary (if 100% recovered)
C Meyers, White or Eslinger (Not sure yet who wins backup role.)
LG Pitts, Studdard
LT Brown, Salaam (if brown is ready)

PS Frye

dalemurphy
07-23-2008, 04:14 PM
Well, just wanted to update where the team stands with the O-line before TC starts. After cutting Spencer and Stevenson yesterday, we are down to 14 O-linemen not counting Pittman. At this point, Brown still has not signed, but I expect that to happen soon.

At this time I see the line shaping up like this:
RT Winston, Salaam
RG Brisiel, Weary (if 100% recovered)
C Meyers, White or Eslinger (Not sure yet who wins backup role.)
LG Pitts, Studdard
LT Brown, Salaam (if brown is ready)

PS Frye


Butler will make the team.... likely over Salaam.

Honoring Earl 34
07-23-2008, 04:21 PM
Butler will make the team.... likely over Salaam.

I bet that's why Salaam was peeved when he was'nt named the starter at LT .

ChampionTexan
07-23-2008, 04:35 PM
Butler will make the team.... likely over Salaam.

http://www.rudezone.net/images/notThisShitAgain.gif

J/K - But I choose to not participate in any ensuing discussion!

HJam72
07-23-2008, 04:39 PM
Letting Salaam go before Brown has proven himself makes me very nervous. Salaam and Pitts are the only LTs we've had that haven't completely sucked most of the time, and Pitts is definitely locked at LG.

painekiller
07-23-2008, 04:44 PM
Frye was made a guard last training camp and that is the position is supposed to be practicing at.

I know the official roster has him at OT, but they never changed Travis Johnson from the NT position he ran in the 3-4. I know they call the big tackle in the 4-3 a NT but they do not have Okam listed as a NT.

HOU-TEX
07-23-2008, 05:02 PM
http://www.rudezone.net/images/notThisShitAgain.gif

J/K - But I choose to not participate in any ensuing discussion!

Agreed!

barrett
07-23-2008, 05:07 PM
i'll third that as well. there is an entire 4 pages devoted to this. this is going to get answered REALLY soon.

dalemurphy
07-23-2008, 05:17 PM
i'll third that as well. there is an entire 4 pages devoted to this. this is going to get answered REALLY soon.



Predictions:
1. Faggins makes the 53 man roster
2. Salaam doesn't.
2. Chris Taylor finishes the season with more carries than CBrown.
3. Okam is getting at least 15 snaps a game by week 4.
4. Adibi and Molden are playing significant minutes by October.
5. Dunta is playing and healthy by midseason.
6. CC Brown doesn't finish the year as a starter.

barrett
07-23-2008, 05:20 PM
i predict one of us two falls a few rows after jumping up and down in a narrow isle and breaks or sprains something.

barrett
07-23-2008, 05:22 PM
i also predict that our offense improves drastically but our defense only improves slightly and the Richard Smith arguments come full force by weak 10.

barrett
07-23-2008, 05:53 PM
we've got to make one more cut when D. Brown is signed. Surely it's zgonina right? please? please can it be so?

painekiller
07-23-2008, 05:54 PM
we've got to make one more cut when D. Brown is signed. Surely it's zgonina right? please? please can it be so?

Go count the roster, it is at 80 with Brown, so no more precamp cuts to come.

dalemurphy
07-23-2008, 06:43 PM
Go count the roster, it is at 80 with Brown, so no more precamp cuts to come.



If Zgoniga runs into a player with ability on accident and it results in an injury, I'm going to blame you!

barrett
07-23-2008, 10:37 PM
what did you think of my injury prediction dale?

dalemurphy
07-23-2008, 10:58 PM
what did you think of my injury prediction dale?

While my ligaments and cartilidge may be unjustly brittle, you are the only one of us capable of that kind of lack of coordination. Now, if I get too excited and throw you down to the field level seats in a moment of jubilation I may feel some sense of responsibility that could border on guilt.

beerlover
08-18-2008, 12:32 PM
I haven't posted in awhile, but I've been reading the threads the past few weeks and just wanted to get some opinions on who you think will make it on Gibbs O-Line. After checking the roster, I found we have a total of 18 linemen, including Pittman, the Long Snapper, but excluding the TE's. A breakdown of the positions shows we have 7 Tackles, 6 Guards, 4 Centers and the LS. This doesn't take into account players who can play multiple positions which is a plus, and will probably go into the decision making by Kubes/Gibbs when it gets down to making cuts.

Here are the players listed by their primary position:

Tackles
* Jordan Black 6'5" 310
* Duane Brown 6'4" 308
* Rashad Butler 6'4" 293
* Brandon Frye 6'4" 302
* Ephraim Salaam 6'7" 300
* Charles Spencer 6'4" 352
* Eric Winston 6'7" 310

Guards
* Mike Brisiel 6'5" 300
* Scott Jackson 6'4" 300
* Chester Pitts 6'3" 320
* Dan Stevenson 6'5" 300
* Kasey Studdard 6'2" 302
* Fred Weary 6'4" 308

Centers
* Greg Eslinger 6'3" 292
* Chris Myers 6'4" 300
* Chukky Okobi 6'1" 305
* Chris White 6'2" 285

The Texans carried 10 O-Linemen last year, counting Pittman, the LS. Assuming they carry 10 again this year, including Pittman, which of the remaining players do you think will make the team and who will be put on the Practice Squad (I'm not sure but I think only Frye and Studdard are PS eligible) if any? :user:

As of now this is the way I see it:
RT Winston, Salaam
RG Brisiel, Weary(if 100% recovered)
C Myers, Eslinger
LG Pitts, Spencer
LT Salaam (until Brown is ready)

PS Frye, Studdard
PUP/IR White

Tackles

* Duane Brown 6'4" 308
* Rashad Butler 6'4" 293
* Brandon Frye 6'4" 302
* Ephraim Salaam 6'7" 300
* Eric Winston 6'7" 310

Guards

* Mike Brisiel 6'5" 300
* Chester Pitts 6'3" 320
* Kasey Studdard 6'2" 302

Centers

* Chris Myers 6'4" 300
* Chris White 6'2" 285