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False Start
05-09-2008, 11:57 AM
I just heard on 790 that Kubiak said Duane Brown will definitely be the starter . They also said hes playing with the first team in mini-camp .

Ole Miss Texan
05-09-2008, 12:47 PM
If he provides the ability RIGHT NOW to beat out Salaam for our starting LT spot, this is very very good news. Then throw in the fact of how young he is and how much upside he has, how much experience will help him get better- it makes it even better.

infantrycak
05-09-2008, 01:17 PM
He will probably be raw to begin with but I think this is the right decision. LT's need experience. Kubiak and Schaub are smart enough to add an early season "how is the LT doing" read to the progression.

Mr PC
05-09-2008, 01:26 PM
Smart decision. Brown has all the physical tools to be a great LT in Gibbs system. The only thing he lacks is the knowledge that comes from expert coaching and experience. There are 4 months until week one of the NFL season. I think Brown is smart and talented enough to soak up the knowledge quickly so that he can be effective as a starter on the first game of the season.

nunusguy
05-09-2008, 01:27 PM
I just heard on 790 that Kubiak said Duane Brown will definitely be the starter . They also said hes playing with the first team in mini-camp .

That is stunning, really almost too difficult to believe ?
While I've heard many positive comments about Browns upside, and actually
some very good reports about his ability right now to function as a blocker on rushing plays, nowhere have I heard that he's ready to be an NFL passblocker, especially at LT ? Actually just the opposite.

Fox
05-09-2008, 01:28 PM
I'm a little concerned about Brown starting from day 1 because of all of the talk about him being so raw and a project. If he can get up to speed and not be too much of a drop off from Salaam to start the year then that's great, more experience. I just don't want him to be a detriment to the team during our very difficult opening season stretch.

alphajoker
05-09-2008, 01:30 PM
Baptism by fire...I can dig it.

nero THE zero
05-09-2008, 01:37 PM
That is stunning, really almost too difficult to believe ?
While I've heard many positive comments about Browns upside, and actually
some very good reports about his ability right now to function as a blocker on rushing plays, nowhere have I heard that he's ready to be an NFL passblocker, especially at LT ? Actually just the opposite.

I imagine he'll get a lot of help from scheme to playcalling. They're probably pretty high on his run blocking and feel that they can cook up some stuff to minimize his pass blocking deficiencies while getting him the necessary experience.

Honoring Earl 34
05-09-2008, 01:39 PM
He beat him out before they got on the field . Does this mean our draft is now an A+ ?

Double Barrel
05-09-2008, 01:39 PM
That is stunning, really almost too difficult to believe ?
While I've heard many positive comments about Browns upside, and actually
some very good reports about his ability right now to function as a blocker on rushing plays, nowhere have I heard that he's ready to be an NFL passblocker, especially at LT ? Actually just the opposite.

I best most of those reports were from talking heads and not actual NFL coaches, correct?

This is encouraging news, especially this early into off-season workouts.

I'm just glad Ron Dayne isn't here to break another promising LT's leg. ;)

badboy
05-09-2008, 01:42 PM
Baptism by fire...I can dig it.unless it is a Qb says David Carr. Actually based on size and physical skills (quick feet and long arms) Brown should do well. If not Old Faithful is right there which is why Salaam was signed. I can't believe that Spencer will not get at least some plays at some point as he did beat out pretty good starter two years ago. Kubes has identified CS as RG. Frye may yet have something to say & then there is my fave of all faves (drum roll please) Jordan SParks! No, that was last year's Idol, I meant Black.

Honoring Earl 34
05-09-2008, 01:42 PM
I'm just glad Ron Dayne isn't here to break another promising LT's leg.


I thought of that ... maybe we can sacrifice Dayne in an injury excorcism .

badboy
05-09-2008, 01:45 PM
I thought of that ... maybe we can sacrifice Dayne in an injury excorcism .There was supposed to be an animal sacrifice, but Dayne barbqued it.

HOU-TEX
05-09-2008, 01:48 PM
I best most of those reports were from talking heads and not actual NFL coaches, correct?

This is encouraging news, especially this early into off-season workouts.

I'm just glad Ron Dayne isn't here to break another promising LT's leg. ;)

A-freakin-men! As I've said many times before, I'm giddy of the fact he won't be in our backfield anymore. :cool:

TexanSam
05-09-2008, 01:48 PM
I think you misheard. On 790 they said Kubiak said he'll be starting with the first team in minicamp and training camp. That doesn't mean he'll be starting on opening day. I think they want to see how well he does and if they don't think he can start immediately then Salaam will be put back as the starting LT. Kubiak didn't say Duane Brown would be the starter at the beginning of the season.

790 (David Dalati to be specific) also said that Salaam wasn't happy about it and that Kubes had to talk to him about it.

IlliniJen
05-09-2008, 01:50 PM
I'm just glad Ron Dayne isn't here to break another promising LT's leg. ;)

And put countless numbers of buffet restaurants out of business. :thisbig:

nunusguy
05-09-2008, 01:50 PM
I don't care if he's out there at LT in practice as long as there's no contact involving the QBs. But frankly I'd be real anxious if he was on the field even in a preseason game with Schaub or Sage out there, unless this guy has got an Einstinean ability to comprehend, learn, and apply pass-blocking skills.

Texan_Bill
05-09-2008, 01:50 PM
Start the kid?? What's the worst case scenario (besides a broken leg - knock on wood)? If he struggles to get things figured out, Salaam is a decent (not great) back-up.. Or at least until the ROok feels comfortable.

TexanAddict
05-09-2008, 02:02 PM
I think you misheard. On 790 they said Kubiak said he'll be starting with the first team in minicamp and training camp. That doesn't mean he'll be starting on opening day. I think they want to see how well he does and if they don't think he can start immediately then Salaam will be put back as the starting LT. Kubiak didn't say Duane Brown would be the starter at the beginning of the season.

790 (David Dalati to be specific) also said that Salaam wasn't happy about it and that Kubes had to talk to him about it.

I think you are correct. Kubiak's quote, per houstontexans.com blog:

Big mini camp news right off the bat: as of today, Duane Brown is the Texans' starting left tackle. After the team's first mini camp practice of 2008, Texans head coach Gary Kubiak named the first-round draft pick out of Virginia Tech as the current starter over veteran Ephraim Salaam.

"We’ve got to see how far we can bring this kid in the next month, so we put him right in there with the first group today," Kubiak said. "And I know it was very tough on Ephraim, and y’all know I have a great deal of respect for Ephraim and I can understand why it was tough, but as I explained to him, I’ve got to see how far I can bring this young man. But I know Ephraim’s going to do his job and I’m expecting good things from him, but we felt like we had to put this kid to work right away."

Brown worked with the first team for much of practice, facing off against defensive end Mario Williams (who looked even quicker and more aggressive than he did last year).

"He’ll be working with the first group, and that’s the only way we’re going to find out if this kid’s going to get to where we want him to go and how quick he can get there," Kubiak said of Brown. "You draft these kids in the first round to come in, and play and that’s nothing against Ephraim, as I said, and we’ve had this conversation. I understand the difficulty in that (for Salaam), but we as coaches feel like we have to put this kid to work right away."

While it's common knowledge that Brown was selected to eventually take the reigns from Salaam, it's quite a surprise to hear an announcement like this so soon.

houstontexans.com (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/blogs.asp?post_id=281)

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
05-09-2008, 02:24 PM
Brown worked with the first team for much of practice, facing off against defensive end Mario Williams (who looked even quicker and more aggressive than he did last year).



:fans:

nero THE zero
05-09-2008, 02:39 PM
I think the most amazing thing in this thread is that people actually listen to 790.

YoungTexanFan
05-09-2008, 02:42 PM
Baptism by fire...I can dig it.

Signed,
David Carr

Hervoyel
05-09-2008, 02:50 PM
Charles Spencer was drafted in the third round and was transitioning to LT from guard and he still beat out the competition (that included Ephraim Salaam) to start opening day in 2006. This was under the instruction of Mike Sherman who I believe probably comes in somewhere behind Alex Gibbs.

I think Brown will be the starter on opening day unless there's just a real disconnect and he's very much not getting it.

D-ReK
05-09-2008, 02:53 PM
(on how T Duane Brown looked) “Well, I’ll have to go back and see but, you know, we’ve got to see how far we can bring this kid in the next month and so we put him right in there with the first group today. And I know it was very tough on Ephraim (Salaam), and y’all know I have a great deal of respect for Ephraim and I can understand why it was tough, but as I explained to him, I’ve got to see how far I can bring this young man. But I know Ephraim’s going to do his job and I’m expecting good things from him, but we felt like we had to put this kid to work right away.

(on if T Duane Brown is first on the depth chart) “Yes, he’ll be working with the first group, and that’s the only way we’re going to find out if this kid’s going to get to where we want him to go and how quick he can get there. You draft these kids in the first round to come in and play and that’s nothing against Ephraim (Salaam), as I said, and we’ve had this conversation. But I understand the difficulty in that, but we as coaches feel like we have to put this kid to work right away.”
LINK (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4306)

Basically it seems like they're just working him with the first team to see how he looks and to help him progress faster.

Corrosion
05-09-2008, 02:54 PM
He will probably be raw to begin with but I think this is the right decision. LT's need experience. Kubiak and Schaub are smart enough to add an early season "how is the LT doing" read to the progression.

I dont like that thought process ....


You want your QB to have his eyes down field confident that his blockers are doing their jobs . Adding a checkdown to "see the LT's assignment" considering he's on his blind side .... This is taking the QB's eye's off of what he should be seeing and putting them exactly where they shouldnt be .... I think it would ruin any timing and continuity in the passing game .... I dont want to see a repeat of HWWNBM .

A QB has to "Feel" the pressure rather than see it and know when to step up or out of the pocket .

infantrycak
05-09-2008, 03:04 PM
A QB has to "Feel" the pressure rather than see it and know when to step up or out of the pocket .

QB's "feel" the pressure by either hearing or seeing it coming. There is no mythical 6th sense.

The extra read was a poorly framed joke that I am sure Kubiak and Schaub are smart enough to realize they have a rookie at LT.

TheRealJoker
05-09-2008, 03:10 PM
We'll find out a lot about Brown in the first 5 games. Road visits to the Steelers, Tacks, and Jags are going to be big tests for the OL. Plus Brown is gonna have to face Terrell Suggs and Dwight Freeney at Reliant Stadium.

If he gets through those first 5 games and holds his own he's our guy for the next decade imo. But realistically, the most important thing is that those first 5 games dont break his will, that's a tough stretch for any LT much less a rookie.

The toughest one imo will be against the Steelers opening day. I remember YTF posting about how much trouble he had against the Kansas zone blitz defense in their bowl game last season. The Steelers are undoubtedly going to throw some exotic coverages at Brown and see how handles it.

Goldensilence
05-09-2008, 03:16 PM
I'll just throw in how much I think the rest of the line will also have improved by opening day. We got a legit starting Center now and I think we'll have one hell of a battle for the RG position.

Much like last year it is monumental that whomever is lined up in the backfield is able at times to help on the blitz.

El Tejano
05-09-2008, 03:17 PM
Man I love the way our coach plays mind games!!!!!

Corrosion
05-09-2008, 03:26 PM
QB's "feel" the pressure by either hearing or seeing it coming. There is no mythical 6th sense.

The extra read was a poorly framed joke that I am sure Kubiak and Schaub are smart enough to realize they have a rookie at LT.

The QB has to trust that the his blockers are doing their job's so that he can do his . If he See's the LT's man coming ..... Its probably too late .

As for that "mythical 6th sense" its being able to destinguish when to move up or out of the pocket based on peripheral vision or hearing ..... Not often do you see a right handed QB looking over his left shoulder at his protection . Its not conducive to him going thru downfield progressions .Thats why the LT spot is the most important on the line with a right handed QB .


Learn to :sarcasm:

Runner
05-09-2008, 03:30 PM
Start the kid?? What's the worst case scenario (besides a broken leg - knock on wood)? If he struggles to get things figured out, Salaam is a decent (not great) back-up.. Or at least until the ROok feels comfortable.


Worst case scenario? He exhibits a learning curve and becomes the most hated player on the team on this message board.


Raw means raw. Let's all remember that when he gets schooled by some veteran come game time.

Dallas_Texan
05-09-2008, 03:31 PM
:fans:

That's what I got out of it too!!!!!!!!!
:d: :d: :d:

Corrosion
05-09-2008, 03:33 PM
I'll just throw in how much I think the rest of the line will also have improved by opening day. We got a legit starting Center now and I think we'll have one hell of a battle for the RG position.

Much like last year it is monumental that whomever is lined up in the backfield is able at times to help on the blitz.



Im not sold on the Center position being sewn up just yet ..... If Chris Myers is such a big deal why would Denver not have a higher value than a 6th rounder on him when its pretty apparent that Tom Nalen is coming to the end of his career after 14 seasons ?... We'll soon find out if the Texans stole something or got what they paid for .

Second Honeymoon
05-09-2008, 03:34 PM
I have no problem with this move. As someone who wasn't a big fan of the pick, this declaration really displays how highly they thought of Brown and gives me some hope that it may indeed ending up being a quality/high value selection. Now that he has been in rookie camp maybe they are now even more sold on the guy and are letting him know that they expect him to be the starting LT from Day One. If they had any doubts, you would doubt they would make such a statement this early in the guy's development/career. Sounds promising.

Go Brown in 2008!

Double Barrel
05-09-2008, 03:36 PM
Charles Spencer was drafted in the third round and was transitioning to LT from guard and he still beat out the competition (that included Ephraim Salaam) to start opening day in 2006. This was under the instruction of Mike Sherman who I believe probably comes in somewhere behind Alex Gibbs.

I think Brown will be the starter on opening day unless there's just a real disconnect and he's very much not getting it.

Good points, and I agree. I think it is safe to trust Gibbs' judgement on linemen, so the fact that he was high on Brown in the draft speaks volumes, IMO. It would surprise me if there is a disconnect because of this particular endorsement.

Texan_Bill
05-09-2008, 03:38 PM
Worst case scenario? He exhibits a learning curve and becomes the most hated player on the team on this message board.


Raw means raw. Let's all remember that when he gets schooled by some veteran come game time.

Hence, "if he struggles.......... Salaam"

Wasn't Chester Pitts called upon to play some LT in his rookie season (2002)?

Honoring Earl 34
05-09-2008, 03:39 PM
I have no problem with this move. As someone who wasn't a big fan of the pick, this declaration really displays how highly they thought of Brown and gives me some hope that it may indeed ending up being a quality/high value selection. Now that he has been in rookie camp maybe they are now even more sold on the guy and are letting him know that they expect him to be the starting LT from Day One. If they had any doubts, you would doubt they would make such a statement this early in the guy's development/career. Sounds promising.

Go Brown in 2008!

SH is now giving the Texans an A+ for their draft . :smiliedance:

D-ReK
05-09-2008, 03:40 PM
Hence, "if he struggles.......... Salaam"

Wasn't Chester Pitts called upon to play some LT in his rookie season (2002)?

He played LT for the entirety of the 2002 and 2003 seasons, then was moved to LG to make way for Seth Wand.

Hooston Texan
05-09-2008, 03:41 PM
Start the kid?? What's the worst case scenario (besides a broken leg - knock on wood)? If he struggles to get things figured out, Salaam is a decent (not great) back-up.. Or at least until the ROok feels comfortable.

I would say the worst-case scenario is that Schaub gets hurt because of a missed block by the rookie.

My guess is that the coaches are already comfortable with Salaam's demonstrated ability to handle the position. Thus, they want to give Brown as much "starter's reps" as possible prior to the start of live action to make sure that he's ready to protect the investment the team made in Schaub. If they are not absolutely confident that Brown can hold his own, then Salaam will be the one guarding Matt's back on the first snap of preseason.

nunusguy
05-09-2008, 03:48 PM
But realistically, the most important thing is that those first 5 games dont break his will, that's a tough stretch for any LT much less a rookie.

I dunno 'bout breakin his will, but I for one am more concerned about Schaub breakin his neck if Brown is out there too soon.

Texan_Bill
05-09-2008, 03:48 PM
He played LT for the entirety of the 2002 and 2003 seasons, then was moved to LG to make way for Seth Wand.

YUP.. Thanks for that. I wasn't 100% sure that it was the entire season or not, so I erred towards the lesser..


BTW, how'd that Wand guy work out???

dripping in

:sarcasm:

Maddict5
05-09-2008, 03:53 PM
(on facing Mario Williams now compared to four years ago) “It’s a way different Mario than I lined up against four years ago. He’s a beast out there. Like I said, it’s good going against him. It can really help you out on Sundays.”


ha.. i love it

Second Honeymoon
05-09-2008, 04:12 PM
SH is now giving the Texans an A+ for their draft . :smiliedance:

oh hush :)

Specnatz
05-09-2008, 04:48 PM
I have no problem with this move. As someone who wasn't a big fan of the pick, this declaration really displays how highly they thought of Brown and gives me some hope that it may indeed ending up being a quality/high value selection. Now that he has been in rookie camp maybe they are now even more sold on the guy and are letting him know that they expect him to be the starting LT from Day One. If they had any doubts, you would doubt they would make such a statement this early in the guy's development/career. Sounds promising.

Go Brown in 2008!

SH are you drunk already? WOW coming on board, glad to see it, shocked but glad to see it.

thunderkyss
05-09-2008, 04:54 PM
QB's "feel" the pressure by either hearing or seeing it coming. There is no mythical 6th sense.

The extra read was a poorly framed joke that I am sure Kubiak and Schaub are smart enough to realize they have a rookie at LT.

I'm with you 'cak.. also knowing the guys around you. If the QB has a good feel for Brown, he'll know by the time the QB get's to his 6th step whether he should start moving up in the pocket, or slide to his right, or stay put. It's all about chemistry & communication.

If Matt understands that Duane is going to make Freeney go the long way around, then I think Matt can compensate for that. It happens all the time, it's one of those unspoken things, but it happens.

Maddict5
05-09-2008, 05:04 PM
QB's "feel" the pressure by either hearing or seeing it coming. There is no mythical 6th sense.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AlUkz4bKJg :whistle:

76Texan
05-09-2008, 05:15 PM
Brown got beat quite a few times by the edge guys, but it's of the variety of 2 secs or more. He will be helped by the quick release of MS and Sage's experience in getting rid of the ball quickly.

Almost always, he did get a hand on the rusher though.
I'm still a bit worry because the guys in the NFL are even faster.

He does have power and can also get off to the next level pretty nicely for his size.

As for Myers, he looked much better in the 2 games I watch him play at guard alongside with Nalen. Not as good in the 3 games he played at center.
The thing I'm most impressed with Myers is his ability to release to the next level to block in space. And he seems to do that better at Guard.

At center, he's not as efficient at run blocking, having problem with guys who throw a cut at his knees, moving him back from the LOS. And he will need help with big guys like Haynesworth (just as most Centers and Guards).

But I think I like both guys for the long term.

Lucky
05-09-2008, 06:12 PM
Charles Spencer was drafted in the third round and was transitioning to LT from guard and he still beat out the competition (that included Ephraim Salaam) to start opening day in 2006.
Excellent point. Need to spread rep and all of that blah-blah.

Salaam is a backup Tackle on most any team. He's the kind of player who's just good enough, but teams are always trying to replace. Stopgap is the term. And stopgap looks pretty good, when you've had worse the initial 4 years of the franchise. Winning teams have quality depth, and that's what Salaam is.


I'm just glad Ron Dayne isn't here to break another promising LT's leg. ;)
The Dayne Train is only a phone call away. :)

TK_Gamer
05-09-2008, 06:18 PM
I take it all at face value with a little common sense thrown in. Kubes says he giving him time with first team to see what he can handle, I would leave it at that. I honestly think at best Brown will start the season as the swing tackle. You don't risk your QB and possibly your whole season to prove you made the right draft pick. I think if he EARNS the starting spot he will start, the rest is all just conjecture and koolaid. Eventually though he will be a long term answer for us at LT with the help of Gibbs.

Hardcore Texan
05-09-2008, 06:45 PM
This is good news, no matter how you slice it. We are going to find out quick, fast, and a hurry if this man can do what he was drafted to do. Gibbs and Kubiak are going to have this thing nailed down one way or another, and I suspect the kid just might be very good.


It's an exciting time to be a Texans fan. :texflag:

Lucky
05-09-2008, 07:07 PM
I honestly think at best Brown will start the season as the swing tackle. You don't risk your QB and possibly your whole season to prove you made the right draft pick. I think if he EARNS the starting spot he will start...
Just over 50% of Tackles drafted in the 1st round during this decade have been opening day starters. For those who think Brown should have been a 2nd rounder, about 40% of the tackles selected in that round have started their 1st NFL game.

One of the 2nd round Tackles who didn't start in initial game is Jacksonville's Khalif Barnes. Barnes didn't start until his 5th game. Whose job did he take? Ephraim Salaam's.

b0ng
05-09-2008, 07:39 PM
I think you misheard. On 790 they said Kubiak said he'll be starting with the first team in minicamp and training camp. That doesn't mean he'll be starting on opening day. I think they want to see how well he does and if they don't think he can start immediately then Salaam will be put back as the starting LT. Kubiak didn't say Duane Brown would be the starter at the beginning of the season.

790 (David Dalati to be specific) also said that Salaam wasn't happy about it and that Kubes had to talk to him about it.

I listened to the 6:00 pm ticker and Dalati again said that Duane Brown was the starting LT. They made it sound a lot like he was going to be the guy from week 1. The Texans did this before so it's not that much of a shocker. Salaam does have a good habit of getting beaten out by rooks.

ObsiWan
05-09-2008, 07:47 PM
I listened to the 6:00 pm ticker and Dalati again said that Duane Brown was the starting LT. They made it sound a lot like he was going to be the guy from week 1. The Texans did this before so it's not that much of a shocker. Salaam does have a good habit of getting beaten out by rooks.

But those "rooks" have all turned out to be studs. Sounds like a good screening process to me.

ATXtexanfan
05-09-2008, 07:55 PM
i thought we were drafting a LT for the future? if this works out then i'll follow kubiak and smith of a cliff screamin " GOOOOOOOOOO TEXANS"

edo783
05-09-2008, 07:56 PM
When you have a proven veteran like Salaam in the backgound it makes it easy to name a guy the starting LT for TC. However, it's harder to say the same thing on opening day. This is a great way to microwave his progression at the NFL level. I noticed he was going against Mario. You don't suppose that was on purpose or anything do you? After several months of Gibbs kicking his backside and Mario bruising his ribs, he might be ready. Barring injury, the worst I see the kid doing is starting after the bye week. He shot a 32 on the test, so he isn't a bag of doorknobs and should be able to pick it up, just a question of how soon and how well IMO.

Polo
05-09-2008, 08:13 PM
Shocker.

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

False Start
05-09-2008, 08:30 PM
I listened to the 6:00 pm ticker and Dalati again said that Duane Brown was the starting LT. They made it sound a lot like he was going to be the guy from week 1. The Texans did this before so it's not that much of a shocker. Salaam does have a good habit of getting beaten out by rooks.

Thats what was originally said earlier . I hope he can take the heat , and be that breakout star LT Texans fans have been dreaming of since day one .

Htownsportsfan
05-09-2008, 08:35 PM
I imagine he'll get a lot of help from scheme to playcalling. They're probably pretty high on his run blocking and feel that they can cook up some stuff to minimize his pass blocking deficiencies while getting him the necessary experience.

I could not agree more, almost everything I read had good things to say about Browns run blocking and Kubiak has been saying for two years we will run to set up the pass. If, HUGE if A. Green is healthy he was always a good blocker and will help with pass protection. Nastyness and scheme will rule the O'line!

Marcus
05-09-2008, 09:29 PM
Worst case scenario? He exhibits a learning curve and becomes the most hated player on the team on this message board.

That is a fact. He'll be Seth Wand II.


Raw means raw. Let's all remember that when he gets schooled by some veteran come game time.

Oh, trust me, they won't.

PapaL
05-09-2008, 09:42 PM
2 things:

No signed contract = No Play

Spencer might have something say about it; Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3389248):


...Spencer was wearing a knee brace during Friday's workout and Kubiak said he'll hold Spencer out of full-squad drills during the minicamp. Spencer will gladly follow Kubiak's orders as long as he's considered for his old job in the fall.

"This is huge, because I went from a starting role to not playing to playing behind guys right now," Spencer said. "I've got to work hard to get back in the starting lineup. I can get in my stance, I can explode. I'm looking forward to contributing."

If it doesn't work out at left tackle, Spencer said he'd be willing to play either guard spot. After two seasons impatiently watching from the sideline, he just wants to play again...

ubecool454
05-09-2008, 09:46 PM
That is stunning, really almost too difficult to believe ?
While I've heard many positive comments about Browns upside, and actually
some very good reports about his ability right now to function as a blocker on rushing plays, nowhere have I heard that he's ready to be an NFL passblocker, especially at LT ? Actually just the opposite.

I don't want to hear anywhere that he is a ready LT in the NFL, I want to SEE him be ready to be a LT for time on this team. If Gibbs said this is his guy, I am down with it. No offense Salaam.

ObsiWan
05-09-2008, 10:21 PM
Just because D.Brown is getting 1st team reps doesn't mean he will be handed the starting job in Sept. Check this quote (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4307)from Kubiak...


Passing the torch? Don’t let the practice reps fool you. Just because first-round pick Duane Brown is receiving the majority of snaps with the first-team offense doesn’t mean he was handed the starting job.

Kubiak clarified that following the second practice Friday after Brown lined up at left tackle alongside guard Chester Pitts for most of the day.

“No, we have not made any decisions,” Kubiak said. “We’re lining up, working reps. We have a long way to go before we play, but we think it’s very important that this young man gets every possible rep he can get. Ephraim has seen a few reps in his day. This kid needs all he can get.”


Like others have said, they KNOW what they have in Salaam. They're seeing what they have in D.Brown.

Goldensilence
05-10-2008, 12:40 AM
Im not sold on the Center position being sewn up just yet ..... If Chris Myers is such a big deal why would Denver not have a higher value than a 6th rounder on him when its pretty apparent that Tom Nalen is coming to the end of his career after 14 seasons ?... We'll soon find out if the Texans stole something or got what they paid for .


Two years ago this staff made an offer to a team about a player buried on their depth chart at what they felt was a stacked position. We gave up a seventh rounder and signed him to what most people on the board felt was like a larger contract then a 7th rounder deserved. How has Kevin Walter Worked out?

I also thought they like Kuper and doesn't hurt whom they drafted this year in the fourth :
http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=498&contentID=8660

BattleRedToro
05-10-2008, 06:43 AM
I don't understand why so many people act shocked and surprised at the idea of Duanne Brown starting at LT on Opening Day.

It seems that for some time now I have read glowing posts about Charles Spencer and his potential at LT, but it seems many of these same people have forgotten that Spencer was a rookie starting LT on Opening Day, and Ephraim Salaam only became the starter after Spencer was injured.

Therefore, it shouldn't come as a surprise if the Texans again start a rookie LT on Opening Day, and Salaam returns to the coaching staff's original intention as the Swing Tackle.

Texans_Chick
05-10-2008, 01:11 PM
I don't understand why so many people act shocked and surprised at the idea of Duanne Brown starting at LT on Opening Day.

It seems that for some time now I have read glowing posts about Charles Spencer and his potential at LT, but it seems many of these same people have forgotten that Spencer was a rookie starting LT on Opening Day, and Ephraim Salaam only became the starter after Spencer was injured.

Therefore, it shouldn't come as a surprise if the Texans again start a rookie LT on Opening Day, and Salaam returns to the coaching staff's original intention as the Swing Tackle.


Yeah, and Spencer was a third round pick.

The Texans know what they have in Salaam. They don't want him to get wore out. They don't know what they have in Brown, and he needs a lot of work.

All that being said, it is waaaaaaay to early to say who definitely the starting LT will be for game one of the NFL season.

TexansFanatic
05-10-2008, 01:13 PM
He shot a 32 on the test, so he isn't a bag of doorknobs and should be able to pick it up, just a question of how soon and how well IMO.

Sorry to split hairs, but he actually scored a 29 out of the 32 questions he managed to answer on the 50 question test. Still an excellent score!

edo783
05-10-2008, 03:03 PM
Sorry to split hairs, but he actually scored a 29 out of the 32 questions he managed to answer on the 50 question test. Still an excellent score!

Not spliting hairs here either, but he took it two times. The first he scored 29 and the second 32.

TexansFanatic
05-10-2008, 03:14 PM
Not spliting hairs here either, but he took it two times. The first he scored 29 and the second 32.

Do you have a link for that?

The Wonderlic scores are typically posted as two numbers separated by a slash. (For instance 29/32 or 17/50.)

I think the common misconception is that the second number represents the second score from a second test, when actually it's the number of questions the test-taker answered and the first number is the number of correct answers.

Corrosion
05-10-2008, 03:31 PM
Two years ago this staff made an offer to a team about a player buried on their depth chart at what they felt was a stacked position. We gave up a seventh rounder and signed him to what most people on the board felt was like a larger contract then a 7th rounder deserved. How has Kevin Walter Worked out?

I also thought they like Kuper and doesn't hurt whom they drafted this year in the fourth :
http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=498&contentID=8660

I'll agree that the Walter trade has turned out well for the Texans . But when it was made people were scratching their heads over it . Me not being sold on the guy yet as a starter doesnt mean I dont like the deal .... Anytime you can turn a 6th round pick into a starting player its good for your team .... Even if he doesnt start or perform well at least they made an attempt to fix a problem that has plagued this team for quite a while , McKinney wasnt very good at center (better at guard) and Flanagan was a failure from the get go .

As for the Bronco's 4th rounder this year , Lichtensteiger , I think its a pretty solid pick . I wish the Texans had the luxury of picking OL to groom behind a player like Nalen . I really think at this point in the teams development they are still looking for a few pieces that can start right away rather than learn the NFL game .... Casserly and Capers didnt leave Kubiak and Smith much to work with .

beerlover
05-10-2008, 04:03 PM
its smart for teams to have developmental players in areas of strength who can either play later of provide future draft picks. right now for the Texans its the QB position. from a position of weakness to one of strength, this is what makes the selection of Brink :cool:

adam
05-10-2008, 05:25 PM
I would say the worst-case scenario is that Schaub gets hurt because of a missed block by the rookie.

As opposed to Schaub getting hurt because of a missed block by a par (at best) veteran? I would say that if Kubiak and Co. believe in Brown to be a day one starter, then he should be our guy. I shudder at the idea of watching another season of Salaam getting run through like a turnstile, leading to another injury for Schaub.

Goldensilence
05-10-2008, 05:39 PM
I'll agree that the Walter trade has turned out well for the Texans . But when it was made people were scratching their heads over it . Me not being sold on the guy yet as a starter doesnt mean I dont like the deal .... Anytime you can turn a 6th round pick into a starting player its good for your team .... Even if he doesnt start or perform well at least they made an attempt to fix a problem that has plagued this team for quite a while , McKinney wasnt very good at center (better at guard) and Flanagan was a failure from the get go .

As for the Bronco's 4th rounder this year , Lichtensteiger , I think its a pretty solid pick . I wish the Texans had the luxury of picking OL to groom behind a player like Nalen . I really think at this point in the teams development they are still looking for a few pieces that can start right away rather than learn the NFL game .... Casserly and Capers didnt leave Kubiak and Smith much to work with .

Also think Eslinger will be a much better backup option then we have had in the past. Totally agree on the McKinney take.

I think Myer looks a lot better then what we've had in the past at Center. My thought is they were looking at options for center when guys like Hadnot were brought in and deceided to take a flyer on him and see if they'd match. I think Denver liked their options enough to not care too much to match.

CloakNNNdagger
05-10-2008, 06:14 PM
Do you have a link for that?

The Wonderlic scores are typically posted as two numbers separated by a slash. (For instance 29/32 or 17/50.)

I think the common misconception is that the second number represents the second score from a second test, when actually it's the number of questions the test-taker answered and the first number is the number of correct answers.


Many times the Wonderlic is taken multiple times........this is only one link (http://stripehype.com/2008/03/25/wonderlic-test-scores-for-the-upcoming-draft/)that demonstrates this............if you note Chris Williams (32/31/37)
and Jeff Otah (28/16/35), they took the exam THREE times.

Wolf
05-10-2008, 06:23 PM
The main topic of conversation was the fact that rookie Duane Brown was lining up with the first team instead of Ephraim Salaam. Brown said today that he was told the day after he was drafted that he would be practicing with the first team. He got a crash course in the NFL by lining up constantly against Mario Williams. As everyone should expect (and hope), Williams beat Brown often.

"I just think it's important that he gets every rep he can get for the next five or six weeks before we head into training camp," Kubiak said. "You put him in there right away and he has to see Mario Williams every dang day, so we know he has a long way to go, but we're going to get him the reps to get him there as quick as we can."

Williams, who looked in shape and ready to open the regular season, could be as instrumental in the transition of Brown from college to the NFL as any of the coaches will be. He will challenge Brown each day, which was why the Texans decided to have Brown with the first team instead of the second team.

This also means that the job is Brown's to lose. They are not going to declare him their starter for Week 1 right now, but they don't have to. They didn't draft him in the first round to be a backup. They want him to start — and the sooner the better. It will be big news if in the midst of training camp he is running with the second team.

Salaam refused to talk to the media after either of the practices. That is unusual for the media-savvy 10-year-veteran. He is clearly unhappy with the decision by Gary Kubiak to put him on the second team.

"To me there's competition every where on the football team," Kubiak said. "There's nothing etched in stone. We're just working right now. But as I told Ephraim, I think it's very important. It's my decision to put the kid there and go to work.

"Ephraim is a big part of this team and I'm counting on him being a big part of this team. I know it's hard to swallow. I understand that. But he and I have had a talk. We'll move forward. But I think the kid needs to work, and you don't get it unless you put him in there."


http://blogs.chron.com/gamedaytexans/2008/05/duane_browns_first_practice_ev.html

TexansFanatic
05-10-2008, 06:35 PM
Many times the Wonderlic is taken multiple times........this is only one link (http://stripehype.com/2008/03/25/wonderlic-test-scores-for-the-upcoming-draft/)that demonstrates this............if you note Chris Williams (32/31/37)
and Jeff Otah (28/16/35), they took the exam THREE times.

Hey Cloak,

I looked at that same page before my previous post. If what you say is true then there are a number of players on that page who made perfect scores and I'm quite certain that's not true. Of particular interest would be one Wallace Gilberry who made a 17 on his first try and then a 50 on his second.....

mussop
05-10-2008, 07:06 PM
Totally agree on the McKinney take.


Both of you are crazy. McKinney was way better at Center than Guard & our line played best when he wa in the middle.

Honoring Earl 34
05-10-2008, 08:12 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/dr_z/05/09/draft.mail/index.html

Chris of Houston begins his litany of my past failures with that deadly phrase, "Aren't you the same one who...?" OK, I'll be brief -- I gave them a pair of D's in '06 and '07 (but not this year because we've done away with the dreaded letter grades). Ripped them again, this time for their O-line choice, forgetting that Alex Gibbs thrives on coaching these lighter, athletic types. And his summation, which really must be considered: "Do you really know anything of which you speak? It's embarrassing."

I'll give you this -- I might have been too hasty in judging top draft pick, OT Duane Brown. The rest of the board doesn't thrill me. Do me a favor. Check back in December, and let's see how the year goes. If the record is about the same, or worse, you don't need to respond. If there's a real boost, and the rookie class has a big hand in it, remind me in an e-mail and I'll do the full mea culpa number for you, OK? Better take it, you're not gonna get a better deal anywhere.

edo783
05-10-2008, 08:44 PM
Do you have a link for that? .

Sorry no. I read it in some artical about Brown and if I remember correctly it had several others in it also. What struck me and made it stick was he wasn't satisfied with a 29 which is a fairly good number, but wanted better. The thing I also remember was that one of the other LTs had scored 32 and that made me wonder if he was trying to beat him. That means he is pretty darn competative if it was that way.

Wolf
05-10-2008, 08:50 PM
Sorry no. I read it in some artical about Brown and if I remember correctly it had several others in it also. What struck me and made it stick was he wasn't satisfied with a 29 which is a fairly good number, but wanted better. The thing I also remember was that one of the other LTs had scored 32 and that made me wonder if he was trying to beat him. That means he is pretty darn competative if it was that way.

http://potencial.wordpress.com/2008/03/23/2008-wonderlic-scores/

Jake Long 26
Duane Brown 29/32
Devin Clark 11/29
Roy Schuening 26/45
Steve Justice 19/27
Jeff Otah 28/16/35
John Greco 28/36
Mike McGlynn 19/32
Chad Rinehart 35/42
Kory Lichtensteiger 29/36
Sam Baker 27
Chris Williams 32/31/37
Heath Benedict 28/39
Godser Cherilus 25/50
Brandon Albert 23
Mike Pollak 24/34
Ryan Clady 13

TexansFanatic
05-10-2008, 09:15 PM
http://potencial.wordpress.com/2008/03/23/2008-wonderlic-scores/

Thanks for the link, Wolf, but as I mentioned in my previous post:

I have serious trouble believing that those numbers indicate a second attempt at the test since no fewer than three of those test-takers mentioned in that list achieved a perfect score on their second attempt (if you assume that's what the second number means). Since historically there has been only one (at most two) perfect Wonderlic scores achieved by pre-NFL draftees, I find it virtually impossible to believe that---

Lex Hilliard got a 24 on his first attempt and a perfect score his second try,
Gosder Cherilus got a 25 on his first attempt and a perfect score his second try,
Wallace Gilberry got a 17 on his first attempt and a perfect score his second try.

Wolf
05-10-2008, 09:22 PM
I have heard agents have copies(or the type of questions) of the wonderlic that they give their clients and I guess it is up to the clients to study them and I guess after the first go round with the test, clients learn how to not stay on one question too long and move on being it is times..

but just brainstorming

TexansFanatic
05-10-2008, 09:31 PM
If you study that list long enough it becomes very clear that the second number is not a second test score. I don't want to come off too harshly, but there is no way some of those guys scored as high as that second number on the second try. If you know anything about the Wonderlic, you know that a 30 is extremely impressive, like something a scientist would score....not something a cornerback or running back would score...

ObsiWan
05-10-2008, 11:36 PM
If you study that list long enough it becomes very clear that the second number is not a second test score. I don't want to come off too harshly, but there is no way some of those guys scored as high as that second number on the second try. If you know anything about the Wonderlic, you know that a 30 is extremely impressive, like something a scientist would score....not something a cornerback or running back would score...

well, now that's an interesting assumption...

without knowing any of these guys personally how can you say that CBs and RBs cannot be both intelligent AND athletic?

Didn't we have a RB on our team last season that's studying to be a doctor? Or have you forgotten about Gado? Isn't one of this year's crop of rookies considering law school? I'm a bit surprised you would make that kind of generalization.

edo783
05-11-2008, 05:15 AM
If you know anything about the Wonderlic, you know that a 30 is extremely impressive, like something a scientist would score.

We seem to be getting wrapped around the axle here on some minutia when in truth we should be pretty happy our guy shot at least a 29 which is pretty darn good. Bodes well for his ability to pick up a complex scheme.

Vinny
05-11-2008, 10:43 AM
For a big man he gets great knee bend like a smaller man as opposed to the Herman Munster like posture that guys like Todd Wade has. This enables him to get behind his pads and lower his center of gravity in space to deliver blows like a smaller more athletic body-type can....I'm kinda excited about his long term prospects.

http://houstontexans.com/uploads/photo/thumbs/7086.jpg

awtysst
05-11-2008, 10:59 AM
If you study that list long enough it becomes very clear that the second number is not a second test score. I don't want to come off too harshly, but there is no way some of those guys scored as high as that second number on the second try. If you know anything about the Wonderlic, you know that a 30 is extremely impressive, like something a scientist would score....not something a cornerback or running back would score...


I have posted this before, but it warranted a repost. Here is an approximte list of scores and the kind of jobs a "typical" person with that score might occupy. Of course there is no such thing as a "typical person" as everyone is an individual, but yall get the idea.

* Chemist - 31
* Programmer - 29
* Journalist - 26
* Sales - 24
* Bank teller - 22
* Clerical worker - 21
* Security guard - 17
* Warehouse - 15

TexansFanatic
05-11-2008, 11:14 AM
well, now that's an interesting assumption...

without knowing any of these guys personally how can you say that CBs and RBs cannot be both intelligent AND athletic?

I'm a bit surprised you would make that kind of generalization.

Hilarious! You're right, I'm sure there are dozens of running backs in the NFL who have scored 50's on the Wonderlic.....My bad.

TexansFanatic
05-11-2008, 11:16 AM
We seem to be getting wrapped around the axle here on some minutia when in truth we should be pretty happy our guy shot at least a 29 which is pretty darn good. Bodes well for his ability to pick up a complex scheme.

Fair enough. I'm still going to try to verify those scores though. :cool:

Playoffs
05-11-2008, 01:14 PM
The message will be pretty clear in the comments. If the reports are not
"glowing"....if you're not reading/hearing about how impressive Brown was at minicamp---that's not great news.

Comments like "coming along"/"good start"/"transition to NFL"/"learned some stuff"---- all veil some disappointment.

Not that Brown won't develop into a solid LT, just that he's not a(the) natural.

So far I have not heard about anyone being bowled over by Brown, yet, but it's early. Another week will clear things up as it trickles down.

I'm sure hoping for big upside surprise. :texflag:

Playoffs
05-11-2008, 01:17 PM
I have posted this before, but it warranted a repost. Here is an approximte list of scores and the kind of jobs a "typical" person with that score might occupy. Of course there is no such thing as a "typical person" as everyone is an individual, but yall get the idea.

* Chemist - 31
* Programmer - 29
* Journalist - 26
* Sales - 24
* Bank teller - 22
* Clerical worker - 21
* Security guard - 17
* Warehouse - 15

I'll take a team of "warehouse" over "security guard" any day --- they need to re-order that list. :thinking:

Drew_Smoke
05-11-2008, 01:19 PM
I think the most amazing thing in this thread is that people actually listen to 790.

Even our resident blogger knows they're full of crap. 790 is just bad, unlistenable radio, y'all. 97.5 is right on their heels though.

TexansFanatic
05-11-2008, 01:55 PM
I'll take a team of "warehouse" over "security guard" any day --- they need to re-order that list. :thinking:

:laughjump:

Vinny
05-11-2008, 01:59 PM
The message will be pretty clear in the comments. If the reports are not
"glowing"....if you're not reading/hearing about how impressive Brown was at minicamp---that's not great news.

Comments like "coming along"/"good start"/"transition to NFL"/"learned some stuff"---- all veil some disappointment.

Not that Brown won't develop into a solid LT, just that he's not a(the) natural.

So far I have not heard about anyone being bowled over by Brown, yet, but it's early. Another week will clear things up as it trickles down.

I'm sure hoping for big upside surprise. :texflag:

They aren't even hitting each other yet....Why do you think he isn't a 'natural" for this (your words not mine)? I think you are really reading way too much into everything right now.

Lucky
05-11-2008, 02:50 PM
The message will be pretty clear in the comments. If the reports are not
"glowing"....if you're not reading/hearing about how impressive Brown was at minicamp---that's not great news.

Comments like "coming along"/"good start"/"transition to NFL"/"learned some stuff"---- all veil some disappointment.
Quite a job reading the tea leaves. I'm going to take a stab at it utilizing these Kubiak Day 3 quotes (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4316):

“It was a good weekend,” Kubiak said. “Like I said, the whole philosophy behind changing the schedule up a little bit, to me, was that I wanted all these young guys to have an idea after today of the way we do things so when we get started on the 19th, we don’t waste two or three days getting in the right mode.Translation: "I'm at my wit's end. I've done everything I can think of, and they know less football now than when we started. Hell, I couldn't teach these noobs how to tie their shoes. Loop, swoop, and pull. How hard is that?"

“That light went on for Mario somewhere last year about Week 7 or 8,” Kubiak said.Translation: "If Mario dogs it again at the start of the season, I'll be out on my arse and begging Shermie to take me on as the Aggie QB coach."

“2008’s well on its way. It’s fun to get started.”Translation: "We have no chance. I wouldn't even bother to go inside for the game. Just come for the tailgate and pack it up at kickoff. I'd rather spend the 3 hours knitting and watching American Idol reruns."

Honoring Earl 34
05-11-2008, 03:24 PM
Well ... I guess it could be worse . Mike Jenkins can't cover Danny Amendola a FA wr from Texas Tech .

Ole Miss Texan
05-12-2008, 09:17 AM
I'll take a team of "warehouse" over "security guard" any day --- they need to re-order that list. :thinking:

Caretaker: Who we gonna crush?
Prisoners team: The guards!
Caretaker: Who we gonna kill?
Prisoners team: The guards!
Caretaker: Who we gonna kiss?
Brucie: [shouting out loud all alone] The guards!
Caretaker: [smile] Gotcha!

HOU-TEX
05-12-2008, 09:29 AM
For a big man he gets great knee bend like a smaller man as opposed to the Herman Munster like posture that guys like Todd Wade has. This enables him to get behind his pads and lower his center of gravity in space to deliver blows like a smaller more athletic body-type can....I'm kinda excited about his long term prospects.

http://houstontexans.com/uploads/photo/thumbs/7086.jpg

Is it me, or does Gibbs have a severe case of bedhead?

I agree, Vinny. Although your last statement doesn't really portray much enthusiasm as an immediate improvement over Salaam. IMO, Salaam is the Ron Dayne of LT's. I'd hope someone as "athletic" as Brown is would unseat Salaam with ease.

:texflag:

Specnatz
05-12-2008, 10:46 AM
Even our resident blogger knows they're full of crap. 790 is just bad, unlistenable radio, y'all. 97.5 is right on their heels though.

Not to Hijack the thread but what is 97.5 FM? I know 610, 790, and 1150 but not 97.5.

Ole Miss Texan
05-12-2008, 11:10 AM
Not to Hijack the thread but what is 97.5 FM? I know 610, 790, and 1150 but not 97.5.

ESPN radio

BigBull17
05-12-2008, 11:28 AM
I think you misheard. On 790 they said Kubiak said he'll be starting with the first team in minicamp and training camp. That doesn't mean he'll be starting on opening day. I think they want to see how well he does and if they don't think he can start immediately then Salaam will be put back as the starting LT. Kubiak didn't say Duane Brown would be the starter at the beginning of the season.

790 (David Dalati to be specific) also said that Salaam wasn't happy about it and that Kubes had to talk to him about it.

Its so he can get reps to have a chance to learn the offense and has a chance to beat out Salaam. Salaam knows everything we do, and doesnt need the reps in mini camp.

BigTimeTexanFan
05-12-2008, 11:58 AM
Is it me, or does Gibbs have a severe case of bedhead?
I agree, Vinny. Although your last statement doesn't really portray much enthusiasm as an immediate improvement over Salaam. IMO, Salaam is the Ron Dayne of LT's. I'd hope someone as "athletic" as Brown is would unseat Salaam with ease.

:texflag:

I think that's the Jack Nicholson look.

Overalls
05-12-2008, 12:25 PM
Do you have a link for that?

The Wonderlic scores are typically posted as two numbers separated by a slash. (For instance 29/32 or 17/50.)

I think the common misconception is that the second number represents the second score from a second test, when actually it's the number of questions the test-taker answered and the first number is the number of correct answers.

So if your theory is correct we could then say that since a certain QB for a certain team had a score something like 6/16 we could then say that not only could he not come close to finishing the test he also was not often correct in his answers. That would mean he was slow and wrong.

Anyway I wouldn't read too much in Duane running with the first team at OTAs

:fans:

76Texan
05-13-2008, 03:44 PM
Just watch another VT game.
vs. Clemson in 06.
(just the 1st half.)

Frye was at LT and Brown at RT for VT.
Gaines Adams and Philip Merling at DE (switching side from time to time.)

Some good battles there.
Frye was on a bit of the losing end while Brown look pretty good. The guy is athletic and can definitely move.

On one particular play, the QB couldn't find a receiver, but scrambled and still hold on to the ball too long. Brown made two blocks, one on each side of the field. The QB should have thrown the ball away or lay down, but he didn't and eventually lost the ball. Brown turned around and make the tackle on the guy who recovered. He looked like a LB.

Lucky
05-18-2008, 10:39 AM
Is it too late for an internet hack...er, scout to trash the Texans 1st round pick? Apparently not, as this Chris Steuber guy (writing for the fading fast draft site scout.com) believes Duane Brown is the Rookie Most Likely To: Fade Into Obscurity (http://profootballexperts.scout.com/2/755588.html).

Every year there is a workout warrior who emerges at the Scouting Combine, shows good athleticism and appears fluid during positional drills, but for some reason scouts ignore the game film and get enamored with a player’s measureables.

A former tight end at Virginia Tech, the 6-foot-4, 315-pound Brown has a lot of upside, but on film he played soft and at times got manhandled by the opposition. He possesses quick feet, but he has to improve his strength in his upper body and legs.

There were six OTs taken in the first round, and I expect Brown to be the most disappointing of them all.I get a good laugh at these internet scouts who makes claims like "...he has to improve his strength in his upper body and his legs." One, just about every rookie in the league needs to improve their strength. Why single Brown out? Two, unless he's Brown's strength and conditioning coach, how would he know exactly what Brown needs to improve in? These guys love to talk out of their arse whenever they can't come up with a reasonable explanation for their assertions.

So, Brown will be the most disappointing OT selected in the 1st round? Well, he was the 6th of the OTs drafted. If the NFL always took the best player available at each slot, which has never happened, Brown would be the worst of the 6 tackles. That alone wouldn't make him a bad pick. The Steelers GM, Kevin Colbert, claimed that this OT draft class was the best he had seen in 25 years. If true, would it be that unlikely for all 6 of these Tackles to become good players?

Finally, isn't Duane Brown already rather obscure? Just how much fading has to occur? Brown could start all 16 games as a rookie for the Texans, and still wouldn't get much notoriety. Not outside of Houston, anyway.

Hey, I realize the guy had to pick some player as Most Likely To Bust. Why not the Texans draft pick? They're always an easy target. Fine. As our own threetoedpete might say, "Got 'er marked."

badboy
05-19-2008, 10:29 AM
Is it too late for an internet hack...er, scout to trash the Texans 1st round pick? Apparently not, as this Chris Steuber guy (writing for the fading fast draft site scout.com) believes Duane Brown is the Rookie Most Likely To: Fade Into Obscurity (http://profootballexperts.scout.com/2/755588.html).

I get a good laugh at these internet scouts who makes claims like "...he has to improve his strength in his upper body and his legs." One, just about every rookie in the league needs to improve their strength. Why single Brown out? Two, unless he's Brown's strength and conditioning coach, how would he know exactly what Brown needs to improve in? These guys love to talk out of their arse whenever they can't come up with a reasonable explanation for their assertions.

So, Brown will be the most disappointing OT selected in the 1st round? Well, he was the 6th of the OTs drafted. If the NFL always took the best player available at each slot, which has never happened, Brown would be the worst of the 6 tackles. That alone wouldn't make him a bad pick. The Steelers GM, Kevin Colbert, claimed that this OT draft class was the best he had seen in 25 years. If true, would it be that unlikely for all 6 of these Tackles to become good players?

Finally, isn't Duane Brown already rather obscure? Just how much fading has to occur? Brown could start all 16 games as a rookie for the Texans, and still wouldn't get much notoriety. Not outside of Houston, anyway.

Hey, I realize the guy had to pick some player as Most Likely To Bust. Why not the Texans draft pick? They're always an easy target. Fine. As our own threetoedpete might say, "Got 'er marked."I think Lucky, that you are using entirely too much logic and common sense. This guy probably has dreams that he will eventually take Kiper's spot on ESPN and you keep messing with him. heehehe.

NBT
05-19-2008, 02:39 PM
Why do you think they call guys like this jerk talking heads? Maybe empty talking head would be more apt in his case.

barrett
05-19-2008, 02:45 PM
i'm curious. lets all take a shot at being an internet hack... er, scout. who do ya'll see as the first round pick most likely to flop?

Mr teX
05-19-2008, 02:57 PM
i'm curious. lets all take a shot at being an internet hack... er, scout. who do ya'll see as the first round pick most likely to flop?

IMO Mcfadden. he'll be hurt within the 1st 6 games mark my words.

b0ng
05-19-2008, 03:18 PM
i'm curious. lets all take a shot at being an internet hack... er, scout. who do ya'll see as the first round pick most likely to flop?

Going to have to be a lineman. I'm going to say, hmmm, Jake Long. Total freaking guess though, and I have nothing to support or back this up in any way shape or form.

BigTimeTexanFan
05-19-2008, 03:21 PM
Going to have to be a lineman. I'm going to say, hmmm, Jake Long. Total freaking guess though, and I have nothing to support or back this up in any way shape or form.

You must be a writer, lol.

barrett
05-19-2008, 03:26 PM
hilarious!!

barrett
05-19-2008, 03:28 PM
i forgot to pick. i'm going to say one of jacksonville's two DE picks. and i'm basing it on the exact same data as "bong".

aj.
05-19-2008, 07:14 PM
It's the zeroth law of fan nature. If they say something you happen to agree with, then he/she is 'spot on' and insightful. If they don't, then he/she is a moron, hack, bum, hater, talking head or douchebag - except of course for those that are always bums or hacks even if you do agree with them from time to time.

threetoedpete
05-21-2008, 10:32 AM
The message will be pretty clear in the comments. If the reports are not
"glowing"....if you're not reading/hearing about how impressive Brown was at minicamp---that's not great news.

Comments like "coming along"/"good start"/"transition to NFL"/"learned some stuff"---- all veil some disappointment.

Not that Brown won't develop into a solid LT, just that he's not a(the) natural.

So far I have not heard about anyone being bowled over by Brown, yet, but it's early. Another week will clear things up as it trickles down.

I'm sure hoping for big upside surprise. :texflag:

There is no disappointment here. These are the same posts we got when Spencer was making the transition. Believe it or not, they choose to move back and pick this guy. Not move up and waist picks on a higher rated guy.
He can dip his hips and is very athletic. That makes him better than two thirds of the guys coming out every year... off the bat. No one is going to be bowled over until the bullets are live and he picks up an exotic stunt. He isn't a prima donna and Gibbs will work him to death. Want perfect ? trade every pick you got in the bag and move into the top five. The big question is: is four months enough time ? and at this point no one knows for sure. If they aren't fawning all over him now, that's one reason why. The other is that Gibbs will break down his game over the next few months. Then Gibbs will attempt to build him back up. He doesn't have to relearn anything. Brown is starting from scratch.

ArlingtonTexan
05-21-2008, 10:40 AM
It's the zeroth law of fan nature. If they say something you happen to agree with, then he/she is 'spot on' and insightful. If they don't, then he/she is a moron, hack, bum, hater, talking head or douchebag - except of course for those that are always bums or hacks even if you do agree with them from time to time.

:goodpost:

beerlover
05-21-2008, 10:52 AM
i'm curious. lets all take a shot at being an internet hack... er, scout. who do ya'll see as the first round pick most likely to flop?

not sure but I know one thing- its not going to be a Texan :logo:

barrett
05-21-2008, 11:00 AM
there could potentially be so much shakeup on the offensive line who knows who will excel in Gibbs' system and who will not.

BigBull17
05-21-2008, 11:15 AM
Going to have to be a lineman. I'm going to say, hmmm, Jake Long. Total freaking guess though, and I have nothing to support or back this up in any way shape or form.

I kind of agree with you. Jake Long will be a RT before all is said and done.

Ole Miss Texan
05-21-2008, 11:22 AM
Personally, I see one of the CB's being a complete bust. Which one(s) I don't know... but of all the players in the 1st round, they have the most upside as well as the most bust potential.

beerlover
05-21-2008, 11:27 AM
there could potentially be so much shakeup on the offensive line who knows who will excel in Gibbs' system and who will not.

don't know about that. Rick Smith traded for Chris Meyers to be the starting Center. Winston is the starting RT & Pitts the starting LG. if Brown progresses on schedule he will be the starting LT. that leaves only RG position as unknown.

El Tejano
05-21-2008, 11:40 AM
I say Chris Johnson with Tennessee.

TheRealJoker
05-21-2008, 11:46 AM
don't know about that. Rick Smith traded for Chris Meyers to be the starting Center. Winston is the starting RT & Pitts the starting LG. if Brown progresses on schedule he will be the starting LT. that leaves only RG position as unknown.

Was anyone else impressed with Brisiel last season when he came in? He definately didn't look too shabby for a 2006 UDFA imo. I think we may have ourselves a steal in Brisiel!!!

adam
05-21-2008, 12:03 PM
Was anyone else impressed with Brisiel last season when he came in? He definately didn't look too shabby for a 2006 UDFA imo. I think we may have ourselves a steal in Brisiel!!!

Absolutely. His play last season was endlessly superior to that of Weary's. Brisiel is starter quality and is hopefully given a fair chance to start in light of the impending return of Tony Bosell...ahem, Charles Spencer.

dalemurphy
05-21-2008, 12:20 PM
Was anyone else impressed with Brisiel last season when he came in? He definately didn't look too shabby for a 2006 UDFA imo. I think we may have ourselves a steal in Brisiel!!!

Briesel was very solid, I thought. I believe he'll make the team but I have doubts about him being a long term starter here because of the better athletes that could eventually overtake him at RG: spencer, frye... not to mention the competition he faces from Weary, Studdard and possibly CWhite or Eslinger.

nunusguy
05-21-2008, 12:23 PM
I think the max downside for Brown is that he ends up on the inside as a
guard, but still a starter who could be very good. That's not a huge disappointment for a guy taken at 26, like it is for a #2 overall like Robert Gallery.

beerlover
05-21-2008, 01:34 PM
OK, I'll play (still awhile before the season starts-bored). I would go with Kentwan Balmer, DT North Carolina. not that he's a bad prospect but he is raw & developmental, he plays a difficult position for rookies to be successful, & not much support around him to succeed.

DEFENSIVE TACKLE (IMPACT: 5, OVA: 8%) http://ourlads.com/rookieimpact.cfm

In 2006, 20 rookie defensive tackles contributed on the field in the regular season. Based on the Landers efficiency model, the average rookie DT’s productivity was measured at 17.36 in 2006 (see model details below). Of the 115 veteran DTs who contributed in 2006, the average productivity was 35.80 – nearly double the average rookie. Only four of the 2006 rookie DTs had higher productivity than the average veteran. To punctuate the point, twenty rookie defensive tackles were good enough to contribute on the field right away in the NFL in 2006, but only four surpassed the average veteran. The 57th best veteran defensive tackle in 2006 would’ve measured 35.8 in their productivity. Only four rookie DTs performed better than the top-57 veterans. Is that good? Is that bad? Whatever it is, those four rookie defensive tackles represent 7% of the league’s defensive tackles that performed above average. (7% were Over Veteran Average, OVA) Congratulations go out to Kyle Williams, Barry Cofield, Domata Peko, and Kedric Golston. Three of these four also surpassed the league average in 2007. Also of note, respectively, they were drafted in the 5th, 4th, 4th, and 6th rounds.

In 2007, 18 rookie defensive tackles contributed on the field in the regular season. The average productivity for those 18? 19.73. 114 veteran DTs contributed in 2007. The average veteran DT’s productivity: 30.76. Only five of those contributing 18 rookie DTs had a higher productivity than the average veteran defensive tackle. Four out of twenty in 2006 and five out of eighteen in 2007 – fairly consistent. As far as 2007, goes that comes out to 8% of the league’s above average DTs being rookies. Congratulations go out to Adam Carriker, Amobi Okoye, Clifton Ryan, Ed Johnson, and Brandon Mebane. (1st round, 1st rd, 5th, undrafted, and 3rd.)

In 2008, based on the 2006 and 2007 numbers (7% and 8%), odds are that we’re looking no higher than 9% and no lower than 6% of the league’s upper half of defensive tackles being rookies. Approximately five rookie defensive tackles can be expected to perform among the top-60 DTs in the league. Will Glenn Dorsey be one of those five? Considering that the #1 source for DTs on NFL two-deeps is the 1st round (21%), odds are decent that Glenn Dorsey (and/or Sedrick Ellis) will be one of the five rookie DTs that perform above league average in 2008.

disaacks3
05-21-2008, 03:05 PM
Absolutely. His play last season was endlessly superior to that of Weary's. Brisiel is starter quality and is hopefully given a fair chance to start in light of the impending return of Tony Bosell...ahem, Charles Spencer. WAYYYY unfair comparison there. Boselli never played a single down for the Texans, even in a pre-season game and (this is a guess) cost us more per year than Spencer's entire contract. Spencer went down after getting Dayne-trained from behind.

Kubes still sounds VERY encouraged about Spencer's return, w/o the same sort of spin he uses when talking about more 'questionable' injuries. I think too many people are still hearing Capers/Casserly in their heads when injuries are being reported and not giving Kubiak the benefit of the doubt here.

Salaam, nice guy that he is, simply should NOT be able to keep up w/ Duane Brown as the kid progresses. Salaam was hired as a stopgap, an he's done so at a very serviceable level. If Brown isn't the starter for the first regular-season game, it'll happen by season's end.

beerlover
05-21-2008, 03:08 PM
WAYYYY unfair comparison there. Boselli never played a single down for the Texans, even in a pre-season game and (this is a guess) cost us more per year than Spencer's entire contract. Spencer went down after getting Dayne-trained from behind.

Kubes still sounds VERY encouraged about Spencer's return, w/o the same sort of spin he uses when talking about more 'questionable' injuries. I think too many people are still hearing Capers/Casserly in their heads when injuries are being reported and not giving Kubiak the benefit of the doubt here.

Salaam, nice guy that he is, simply should NOT be able to keep up w/ Duane Brown as the kid progresses. Salaam was hired as a stopgap, an he's done so at a very serviceable level. If Brown isn't the starter for the first regular-season game, it'll happen by season's end.

most excellent post, my freind :goodpost:

Carr Bombed
05-21-2008, 03:49 PM
Personally, I see one of the CB's being a complete bust. Which one(s) I don't know... but of all the players in the 1st round, they have the most upside as well as the most bust potential.

How about Mike Jenkins...who's already said he doesn't like to tackle in run support and is currently getting taken to school by the UDFA WR Dallas signed after the draft.

76Texan
05-21-2008, 06:01 PM
If Brown isn't the starter for the first regular-season game, it'll happen by season's end.

I concur.
After watching 4 VT games (06 Clemson, 07 UNC, BC, KS), I'm quite positive that Brown will become a better LT than Salaam at some point. He won all 4 matchups.

He dominated Kentwan Balmer (UNC) - Balmer lined up mostly at DE in this particular game. I believe he got moved to DT.

And if we look hard at the opponents that VT faced, we'll see that Brown lined up against very good competition almost every single week.

E.Car: Marcus Hands DE (rated #34 by Walterfootball for 2009 draft)
LSU: Glenn Dorsey DE #5 pick
Tyson Jackson DE (rated #3 by Walterfootball for 2009 draft)
Kriston Pittman DE (rated #18 by Walterfootball for 2009 draft)
Al Woods DT (rated #3 by Walterfootball for 2009 draft)
Marlon favorite DT (rated #12 by Walterfootball for 2009 draft)
Ohio: Landon Cohen DE #216 pick
Jameson Hartke DT (rated #32 by Walterfootball for 2009 draft)
UNC: Kentwan Balmer DE #29
Hilee Taylor DE (rated #28 by NFLDraftcountdown) signed with Panthers
Clemson: Phillip Merling DE #32
Dorell Scott DT (rated #15 by Walterfootball for 2009 draft)
Rashaad Jackson DT (rated #33 by Walterfootball for 2009 draft)
Don't forget Gaines Adams
Duke: Vince Oghobaase DT (rated #5 by Walterfootball for 2009 draft)
BC: B.J. Raji DT (rated #14 by Walterfootball for 2009 draft)
Ga Tech: Adamm Oliver DE (rated #29 by NFLDraftcountdown)
Darrell Robertson DE (rated #15 by Walterfootball)
Michael Johnson DE (rated #1 by Walterfootball for 2009 draft)
Vance Walker DT (rated #4 by Walterfootball for 2009 draft)
Darryl Richard DT (rated #16 by Walterfootball for 2009 draft)
Fla.St.: Andre Flellen DT #87
Letroy Guion DT #152
Alex Boston DE (rated #40 by Walterfootball) signed with Jaguars
Neefy Moffett DT (rated #26 by Walterfootball for 2009 draft)
Miami: Calais Campbell DE (rated #11 by Walterfootball) signed by Cardinals
Antonio Dixon DT (rated #21 by Walterfootball for 2009 draft)
Eric Moncur DE (rated #16 by Walterfootball for 2009 draft)
Va: Chris Long DE #2
Jeffrey Fitzgerald (rated #29 by Walterfootball for 2009 draft)
KS: James McClinton DT (rated #25 by NFLDraftcountdown)
Russell Brorsen DE (rated #40 by NFLDraftScout

Runner
05-21-2008, 06:01 PM
Kubes still sounds VERY encouraged about Spencer's return, w/o the same sort of spin he uses when talking about more 'questionable' injuries. I think too many people are still hearing Capers/Casserly in their heads when injuries are being reported and not giving Kubiak the benefit of the doubt here.


Kubiak has been just as bad about spinning injuries. I think it is unlikely Spencer plays football at a high level again. Of course, few believed it when I said (months before camp) that he wouldn't be back last year. As always, time will tell.

b0ng
05-21-2008, 06:13 PM
Was anyone else impressed with Brisiel last season when he came in? He definately didn't look too shabby for a 2006 UDFA imo. I think we may have ourselves a steal in Brisiel!!!

Yes. I thought Brisiel added a lot to the running game the games he started on the line. I honestly was hoping that he would be taking over for RG because I like his play more than Weary, but, I've never been a real big fan of Weary.

I read that Brisiel has been taking 1st team snaps. Good sign.

Lucky
05-21-2008, 07:55 PM
I think it is unlikely Spencer plays football at a high level again.
Why would you say that?

http://www.houstontexans.com/uploads/photo/thumbs/7226.jpg

b0ng
05-21-2008, 08:21 PM
That is one gigantic ass.

nunusguy
05-21-2008, 08:52 PM
I dunno, I can't figure out if "Big Spence" is closer to 350 or 400 ?

NitroGSXR
05-21-2008, 10:00 PM
It really seems like that his left leg is significantly thinner than his right. That's not really a good sign at this point in time. Sure, it's normal to lose some density after being off the leg for so long but the man is trying to play some professional football with a gimpy leg. This isn't Finding Nemo.

I really think his career is over.

barrett
05-22-2008, 03:01 AM
when i saw that pick on HT.com i gulped very very loud.