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Mr PC
05-07-2008, 02:19 PM
I know its way too early to call it, much depends upon who performs well in training camp which is still a couple months away. These predictions are just for fun, and to get a feel for how the team will look in 2008. Here is one possible roster:


Offense
T: Brown, Winston, Salaam, Butler
G: Pitts, Spencer, Weary, Brisiel
C: Myers, Eslinger

RB: Green, Brown, Slaton, Walker
FB: Leach, Taylor

TE: Daniels, Bruener, Dreesen

WR: Johnson, Walter, A. Davis, J. Jones, Grice-Mullins

QB: Schaub, Rosenfels, Gray


Defense
DE: Williams, Weaver, Kalu, Cochran
DT: Johnson, Okoye, Okam, Maddox

LB: Greenwood, Ryans, Bentley, Adibi, Diles, Thompson

CB: Robinson, Bennett, Molden, Reeves, Faggins

S: Demps, Earl, Brown, Harrison, Mitchell


P: Turk
K: Brown



What are your thoughts about who will make the team?

infantrycak
05-07-2008, 02:29 PM
Pittman will almost certainly make the team. I know it is tempting every year to get rid of the long snapper but almost every team has one.

They will probably carry more than 5 CB's.

HOU-TEX
05-07-2008, 02:30 PM
I know its way too early to call it, much depends upon who performs well in training camp which is still a couple months away. These predictions are just for fun, and to get a feel for how the team will look in 2008. Here is one possible roster:


Offense
T: Brown, Winston, Salaam, Butler
G: Pitts, Spencer, Weary, Brisiel
C: Myers, Eslinger

RB: Green, Brown, Slaton, Walker Taylor
FB: Leach, Taylor

TE: Daniels, Bruener, Dreesen

WR: Johnson, Walter, A. Davis, J. Jones, Grice-Mullins

QB: Schaub, Rosenfels, Gray


Defense
DE: Williams, Weaver, Kalu, Cochran
DT: Johnson, Okoye, Okam, Maddox

LB: Greenwood, Ryans, Bentley, Adibi, Diles, Thompson

CB: Robinson, Bennett, Molden, Reeves, Faggins Fletcher

S: Demps, Earl, Brown, Harrison, Mitchell Barber


P: Turk
K: Brown



What are your thoughts about who will make the team?

Players in bold are replaced by players in red. In reality, I'd wait until at least mid to end of training camp for any kind of roster solidity. :)

kravix
05-07-2008, 02:38 PM
Offense
T: Brown, Winston, Salaam, Butler
G: Pitts, Spencer, Studdard, Brisiel
C: Myers, White

RB: Green, Brown, Slaton
FB: Leach, Taylor

TE: Daniels, Bruener, Dreesen

WR: Johnson, Walter, A. Davis, J. Jones, Anderson

QB: Schaub, Rosenfels,


Defense
DE: Williams, Weaver, Kalu, Cochran
DT: Johnson, Okoye, Okam, Maddox

LB: Greenwood, Ryans, Bentley, Adibi, Diles, Thompson

CB: Robinson, Bennett, Molden, Reeves, Faggins, Simmons, Fletcher

S: Demps, Earl, Brown, Harrison

LS: Pittman
P: Turk
K: Brown

OL is definatley the hardest to pick..

Simmons is a CB/S. I also think that Wynn is in the somewhere, maybe over Fletcher, as a KR/PR backup.

I also have a feeling that Bentley might not make the team even though we paid him more than Thompson(IIRC).

Mr PC
05-07-2008, 03:43 PM
Pittman will almost certainly make the team. I know it is tempting every year to get rid of the long snapper but almost every team has one.

yeah i know... Pittman is considered a very good long snapper, but last season he did make that bad snap which resulted in a touchdown for the Chargers. Maybe its wishful thinking but Dreesen could save a roster spot if he works out as the long snapper.



They will probably carry more than 5 CB's.
possible, might be a good idea especially w/ questions regarding D-Rob's health. I know Harrison played some CB in college he might be able to fill in as the 6th CB in a pinch. 10 O-linemen is a lot, I could see the Texans carrying one or two less in order to carry an extra CB and/or Pittman.

AnthonyE
05-07-2008, 04:04 PM
yeah i know... Pittman is considered a very good long snapper, but last season he did make that bad snap which resulted in a touchdown for the Chargers. Maybe its wishful thinking but Dreesen could save a roster spot if he works out as the long snapper.

Yeah, it was pretty bad. But--this might be my terrible memory on this one-- wasn't it very windy for that game? That and Turk can't fall the ball!

Hooston Texan
05-07-2008, 04:57 PM
yeah i know... Pittman is considered a very good long snapper, but last season he did make that bad snap which resulted in a touchdown for the Chargers. Maybe its wishful thinking but Dreesen could save a roster spot if he works out as the long snapper.

What happens if Dreesen gets hurt in the first quarter of a game while playing TE? Nothing is scarier in football than not having confidence in your long-snapper, so I doubt the Texans will want to scrimp on a roster spot there. I believe nearly every team dedicates one spot for that position. One bad snap in a year does not a bad LS make.

Hooston Texan
05-07-2008, 05:00 PM
Yeah, it was pretty bad. But--this might be my terrible memory on this one-- wasn't it very windy for that game? That and Turk can't fall the ball!

I don't think it was windy that day, but Turk actually saved us 2 points by not falling on the ball. The way the Charger offense was routing our D in the first half, they would have easily scored on the possession after the free kick. The whole team laid an egg in the first half of that game, and Pittman/Turk did not want to miss out on the comedy of errors.

Polo
05-07-2008, 05:02 PM
Don't sleep on Alex Brink. The guy has some skills.

HOU-TEX
05-07-2008, 05:04 PM
Don't sleep on Alex Brink. The guy has some skills.

Yep, he's on the brink of excellence. :yes:

The Pencil Neck
05-07-2008, 05:14 PM
Yep, he's on the brink of excellence. :yes:

I hate to see that kind of brinkmanship.

I just hope he remembers to brink his playbook to practice.

HOU-TEX
05-07-2008, 05:20 PM
I hate to see that kind of brinkmanship.

I just hope he remembers to brink his playbook to practice.

Yep, cuz if he didn't he'd be on the brink of being cut. QB's like Brink are on the brink of extinction already, so we wouldn't want to lose'em.

The Pencil Neck
05-07-2008, 05:35 PM
Yep, cuz if he didn't he'd be on the brink of being cut. QB's like Brink are on the brink of extinction already, so we wouldn't want to lose'em.


And if he performs really well and Kubiak is the magician people think he is, he could be real good. And then he'll have to back that Brinks truck up to the bank.

That would be cool.

Polo
05-07-2008, 05:45 PM
Why does Kubes have to be a magician ?

Diles was also on the brink of not being drafted....


Now he's on the brink of starting....

HOU-TEX
05-07-2008, 05:50 PM
And if he performs really well and Kubiak is the magician people think he is, he could be real good. And then he'll have to back that Brinks truck up to the bank.

That would be cool.

Very nice! I was on the brink of soiling myself after reading that.

utahmark
05-07-2008, 06:00 PM
gray is probably going to the practice squad. leaving us with only 2 qb's. thats what has happened for 2 years and it hasnt hurt us yet. so unless he really shines i bet we save that roster spot for some other position.

HOU-TEX
05-07-2008, 06:10 PM
gray is probably going to the practice squad. leaving us with only 2 qb's. thats what has happened for 2 years and it hasnt hurt us yet. so unless he really shines i bet we save that roster spot for some other position.

I'm no genius, but I'm willing to bet Gray is not going to the practice squad. :)

kiwitexansfan
05-07-2008, 06:20 PM
gray is probably going to the practice squad. leaving us with only 2 qb's. thats what has happened for 2 years and it hasnt hurt us yet. so unless he really shines i bet we save that roster spot for some other position.

Kubiak has said he is considering carrying a 3rd QB this year.

Thorn
05-07-2008, 06:39 PM
Kubiak has said he is considering carrying a 3rd QB this year.

A wise move considering our history.

Corrosion
05-07-2008, 07:11 PM
possible, might be a good idea especially w/ questions regarding D-Rob's health. I know Harrison played some CB in college he might be able to fill in as the 6th CB in a pinch. 10 O-linemen is a lot, I could see the Texans carrying one or two less in order to carry an extra CB and/or Pittman.

D-Rob quite possibly could start the season on the pup list . Im not gonna count him out just yet but it is definately a possibility .

infantrycak
05-07-2008, 08:44 PM
gray is probably going to the practice squad.

Gray is not eligible for the practice squad.

threetoedpete
05-07-2008, 10:08 PM
Looking at the last eight games on the schedule...I'd almost bet that they are going to keep an extra DT this season.

kiwitexansfan
05-19-2008, 05:50 PM
I was just doing a preliminary cull of players to try and form a 53 man roster and am stuck at 57 players. This team has some quality depth at long last.

whiskeyrbl
05-20-2008, 05:54 AM
Offense
T: Brown, Winston, Salaam, Frye
G: Pitts, Spencer, Weary, Brisiel
C: Myers, Eslinger

RB: Green, Brown, Slaton, Walker
FB: Leach, Taylor

TE: Daniels, Bruener, Dreesen

WR: Johnson, Walter, A. Davis, J. Jones

QB: Schaub, Rosenfels, Gray


Defense
DE: Williams, Weaver, Kalu, Cochran
DT: Johnson, Okoye, Okam, Maddox

LB: Greenwood, Ryans, Bentley, Adibi, Diles, Thompson, Moffitt

CB: Robinson, Bennett, Molden, Reeves

S: Demps, Ferguson, Brown, Harrison, Mitchell


P: Turk
K: Brown
LS: Pittman

BattleRedToro
05-20-2008, 07:30 AM
Offense
T: Brown, Winston, Salaam, Frye
G: Pitts, Spencer, Weary, Brisiel
C: Myers, Eslinger

RB: Green, Brown, Slaton, Walker
FB: Leach, Taylor

TE: Daniels, Bruener, Dreesen

WR: Johnson, Walter, A. Davis, J. Jones

QB: Schaub, Rosenfels, Gray


Defense
DE: Williams, Weaver, Kalu, Cochran
DT: Johnson, Okoye, Okam, Maddox

LB: Greenwood, Ryans, Bentley, Adibi, Diles, Thompson, Moffitt

CB: Robinson, Bennett, Molden, Reeves

S: Demps, Ferguson, Brown, Harrison, Mitchell


P: Turk
K: Brown
LS: Pittman
(Emphasis added)


Taylor will not be a FB, and they won't carry more than 6 LB's

A Texan
05-20-2008, 04:45 PM
(Emphasis added)


Taylor will not be a FB, and they won't carry more than 6 LB's
That's right, per Kubiak in his recap after Day 1. He mentioned that LB'ers need to be interchangeable when you "keep 5 linebackers or 6" so it may be just 5. He also said in the same interview that there were no plans to move Taylor to FB.
I think Black will be the fourth tackle. I assume they will keep trying Frye at guard like they did at the end of last season but I don't know if he can make the 53 at either position.

adam
05-20-2008, 07:12 PM
Offense:
QB: Schaub, Rosenfels, Gray
RB: Ch. Brown, Taylor, Slaton
WR: Johnson, Walter, Davis, Jones, Anderson
TE: Daniels, Dreesen, Bruener
T: D. Brown, Winston, Salaam, Frye
G: Pitts, Spencer, Brisiel, Weary
C: Myers, Eslinger

Defense:
DE: Williams, Weaver, Kalu, Cochran
DT: Okoye, Okam, Johnson, Maddox
LB: Ryans, Greenwood, Adibi, Diles, Thompson
CB: Robinson, Bennett, Molden, Fletcher, Faggins
S: C. Brown, Demps, Earl, Barber

Special Teams:
K: K. Brown
P: Turk (ugh.)
LS: Pittman

NBT
05-26-2008, 07:54 PM
WISHING the 53 man roster this far before the season is a complete excersize in futility.

The Pencil Neck
05-26-2008, 11:51 PM
WISHING the 53 man roster this far before the season is a complete excersize in futility.

But it gives people something to do in the offseason. If people enjoy doing it, why should you care?

Mr PC
07-09-2008, 01:00 PM
updated predictions

Offense
T: Brown, Winston, Salaam, Butler
G: Pitts, Weary, Brisiel
C: Myers, Eslinger

RB: Green, Brown, Slaton, Taylor
FB: Leach, Cook

TE: Daniels, Bruener, Dreesen

WR: Johnson, Walter, Davis, J. Jones, H. Williams

QB: Schaub, Rosenfels


Defense
DE: Williams, Weaver, Kalu, Cochran
DT: Johnson, Okoye, Okam, Maddox

LB: Greenwood, Ryans, Bentley, Adibi, Diles, Thompson

CB: Bennett, Reeves, Molden, Faggins, Fletcher, Roberson

S: Demps, Ferguson, Brown, Earl, Harrison


P: Turk
K: Brown
LS: Pittman


IR: Dunta Robinson

PS: Studdard, Frye, B. Mitchell, D. Walker, Barber, Brink, etc

The Pencil Neck
07-09-2008, 01:03 PM
updated predictions

Defense
DE: Williams, Weaver, Kalu, Cochran
LB: Greenwood, Ryans, Bentley, Adibi, Diles, Thompson

PS: Studdard, Frye, B. Mitchell, D. Walker, Barber, Brink, etc

So... Colvin doesn't make the team?

And are you sure Studdard has eligibility?

Mr PC
07-09-2008, 01:17 PM
So... Colvin doesn't make the team?

And are you sure Studdard has eligibility?

I knew I was forgetting something. Colvin should definitely make the team, maybe in place of Bentley or Thompson. This is only Studdard's 2nd year in the NFL and he didnt play much last year so Im assuming he does have practice squad eligibility.

Lucky
07-09-2008, 01:29 PM
This is only Studdard's 2nd year in the NFL and he didnt play much last year so Im assuming he does have practice squad eligibility.
Right. The limit for practice squad eligibility is 9 games, and I believe Studdard was only active for 3.

nunusguy
07-09-2008, 01:42 PM
I dunno, does Kula and Cochran both beat out Bullman ? Especailly when Bullman maybe can play either DE or DT in certain situations.

Spike
07-09-2008, 01:53 PM
The battle on the offensive line is going to be interesting. New coach, different emphasis with the scheme and a lot of guys coming off injury.

Assuming that Weary can come back healthy, he would have the experience and talent edge on Studdard. However, from everything we have heard, I think Studdard did a lot to help is cause in OTAs. With Weary coming off injury and signed to a short term deal, this could be a situation where youth and upside prevails. I think we have this luxury, in large part, to the emergance of Brisiel

I can't wait for July to end...

TK_Gamer
07-09-2008, 02:37 PM
I could possibly see weary starting on the pup then studdard would make the roster, otherwise studdard for sure gets the ps. I think earl beats out one of the brandons again and colvin beats out kalu or cochran. I think Brown and Molden are the only rookies with a good shot at making the non-ps roster depending on injuries in camp/pre-season. I think RB will be a tough one. pick the best 3 unless slaton is put on the ps. I think it's gonna be a real battle in camp this year to make the team and we could really see alot of surprise cuts. I think if they are all healthy then we only carry 4 safeties and barber on the ps. some good players will have to get cut for sure as we just don't have many "bad" players anymore. Unless he just plain gets beat out in camp we probably keep Faggins for insurance. I hope they make room for Bulman but its gonna be tough.

dalemurphy
07-09-2008, 03:05 PM
Right. The limit for practice squad eligibility is 9 games, and I believe Studdard was only active for 3.

I doubt Studdard is on the P.S.. First, he'd have to clear waivers and he'd be out there for anyone to poach. Also, I think Frye makes the team. That means that Salaam is gone... We can talk a lot about the depth on this team and what the OL will do this year. However, if Salaam is on the team then the OL isn't very good and neither is the depth.

Mr PC
07-09-2008, 03:13 PM
I doubt Studdard is on the P.S.. First, he'd have to clear waivers and he'd be out there for anyone to poach. Also, I think Frye makes the team. That means that Salaam is gone... We can talk a lot about the depth on this team and what the OL will do this year. However, if Salaam is on the team then the OL isn't very good and neither is the depth.

Salaam has already proven that he can play serviceably at his position in the NFL, which is more than can be said for Studdard or Frye. Im not sure how you can say that Frye makes for a better OT than Salaam. Kubiak even said that they are looking at Frye more as a guard than a tackle.

dalemurphy
07-09-2008, 03:24 PM
Salaam has already proven that he can play serviceably at his position in the NFL, which is more than can be said for Studdard or Frye. Im not sure how you can say that Frye makes for a better OT than Salaam. Kubiak even said that they are looking at Frye more as a guard than a tackle.



I'm saying that if Salaam is among the 9 best Olmen on this team in the estimation of this staff, then the Oline isn't where we are hoping it is. Salaam is past his prime, certainly lacks the athleticism to excel in the ZBS at this point in his career, and his play certainly won't be improving from last season.

If the staff doesn't feel that either Frye or Studdard should be kept over him with Alex Gibbs there to tutor them, then perhaps we've overestimated the direction of this organization.

If everyone agrees that 3 tackles for this team are: winston, brown, butler... then I think the combination of Pitts, Frye, Briesel can capably handle the depth chart at tackle if catastrophe strikes.

Lucky
07-09-2008, 03:54 PM
However, if Salaam is on the team then the OL isn't very good and neither is the depth.
I'm thinking the opposite. If a guy like Salaam (who has been a starter for 9 of 10 seasons with a 2 year tour of duty under Alex Gibbs) is a backup, you've got pretty good depth.

HOU-TEX
07-09-2008, 04:06 PM
I'm thinking the opposite. If a guy like Salaam (who has been a starter for 9 of 10 seasons with a 2 year tour of duty under Alex Gibbs) is a backup, you've got pretty good depth.

Agreed! Lately I've been putting a little thought into who I would have on my 53 man roster and realized how hard the cuts are going to be for the coaching staff. I remembered saying last year how bad it would suck being the one who had to make the decisions on who to cut. Well, this year's twice as hard as last year.

In the end it's an awesome problem to have because it only means the depth on the team has gotten that much stronger.

:texflag:

Malloy
07-09-2008, 04:11 PM
I'll bet a case of beer (with one person only) that Dayne will be back! :)

dalemurphy
07-09-2008, 05:41 PM
I'm thinking the opposite. If a guy like Salaam (who has been a starter for 9 of 10 seasons with a 2 year tour of duty under Alex Gibbs) is a backup, you've got pretty good depth.

The last thing I want to do is be mean-spirited about a guy whos efforts I really appreciate.

That being said, Salaam is a freakin' turnstyle and he's not impressive in the run game either. I know we only gave up 22 sacks last season. Believe me, I've watched and rewatched every game- except for San Diego ( I couldn't bear that one a second time). Salaam too frequently gets badly beat. We are now in our third year under this regime and we've spent a lot of resources on this line. Salaam doesn't have the flexibility to play multiple positions, he doesn't have upside, and he doesn't do any one thing very well. I think it's a good sign for the team if he can't make the team. If he does, it's a bad sign. That's all.

dalemurphy
07-09-2008, 05:42 PM
I'll bet a case of beer (with one person only) that Dayne will be back! :)

I may drink a case of beer if he makes the team.

Ole Miss Texan
07-09-2008, 06:33 PM
Time to go home, so I took a quick stab at it... may edit later

Offense: (25)
QB- Matt Schaub, Sage Rosenfels
RB- Ahman Green, Chris Brown, Chris Taylor, Steve Slaton
FB- Vonta Leach, Jameel Cook
WR- Andre Johnson, Kevin Walter, Andre Davis, Jacoby Jones
TE- Owen Daniels, Mark Bruener, Joel Dreesen
LT- Duane Brown, Ephraim Salaam
LG- Chester Pitts, Kasey Studdard
C- Chris Myers, Greg Eslinger
RG- Mike Brisiel, Fred Weary
RT- Eric Winston, Rashad Butler

Defense: (25)
DE- Mario Williams, Anthony Weaver, Earl Cochran, Roosevelt Colvin
DT- Amobi Okoye, Travis Johnson, Frank Okam, Anthony Maddox, Tim Bulman
LB- Demeco Ryans, Morlon Greenwood, Zac Diles, Xavier Adibi, Chaun Thompson, Kevin Bentley
CB- Fred Bennett, Jacques Reeves, Antwan Molden, Jimmy Williams, Demarcus Faggins
S- CC Brown, Will Demps, Glenn Earl, Brandon Harrison, Dominique Barber

Special Teams: (3)
K- Kris Brown
P- Matt Turk
LS- Brian Pittman

PUP: (1)
CB- Dunta Robinson

PS:
QB- Alex Brink
RB- Darius Walker
WR- Darnell Jenkins
G- Brandon Frye
LB- Ben Moffit
CB- Derrick Roberson

ObsiWan
07-09-2008, 06:48 PM
Comments (based on Mr. PC's revised roster):

- Either Bulman (non-stop motor & work ethic) or Powell (S/T wedgebuster potential) might make it over Kalu. ...and I like N.D. but he's at the end of the trail; just like Zgonina.

- Boyd stays. I believe our injury history has made Kubes just paranoid enough to carry 3 QBs - however, there's nothing in the rules that dictates that all three must be active every week ....is there?

- It will be interesting to see if Jimmy Williams proves to be a significant upgrade over Faggins and/or Fletcher. Only one of these three get to stay.

- Tim Carter could edge out Harry Williams for the 5th WR spot. Or maybe we'll carry 6 WRs since Carter has game experience and Williams can return kicks....

- Ferguson is iffy because I just don't think we'll carry five safeties. And he's the last one on my depth chart

- I'm not 100% convinced we'll carry two FBs either.

gary
07-09-2008, 07:40 PM
Time to go home, so I took a quick stab at it... may edit later

Offense: (25)
QB- Matt Schaub, Sage Rosenfels
RB- Ahman Green, Chris Brown, Chris Taylor, Steve Slaton
FB- Vonta Leach, Jameel Cook
WR- Andre Johnson, Kevin Walter, Andre Davis, Jacoby Jones
TE- Owen Daniels, Mark Bruener, Joel Dreesen
LT- Duane Brown, Ephraim Salaam
LG- Chester Pitts, Kasey Studdard
C- Chris Myers, Greg Eslinger
RG- Mike Brisiel, Fred Weary
RT- Eric Winston, Rashad Butler

Defense: (25)
DE- Mario Williams, Anthony Weaver, Earl Cochran, Roosevelt Colvin
DT- Amobi Okoye, Travis Johnson, Frank Okam, Anthony Maddox, Tim Bulman
LB- Demeco Ryans, Morlon Greenwood, Zac Diles, Xavier Adibi, Chaun Thompson, Kevin Bentley
CB- Fred Bennett, Jacques Reeves, Antwan Molden, Jimmy Williams, Demarcus Faggins, Jamar Fletcher
S- CC Brown, Will Demps, Glenn Earl, Brandon Harrison

Special Teams: (3)
K- Kris Brown
P- Matt Turk
LS- Brian Pittman

IR: (1)
CB- Dunta Robinson

PS:
QB- Alex Brink
RB- Darius Walker
WR- Darnell Jenkins
LB- Ben Moffit
CB- Derrick RobersonI'd post my roster but I really like this one.

dalemurphy
07-09-2008, 07:42 PM
Time to go home, so I took a quick stab at it... may edit later

Offense: (25)
QB- Matt Schaub, Sage Rosenfels
RB- Ahman Green, Chris Brown, Chris Taylor, Steve Slaton
FB- Vonta Leach, Jameel Cook
WR- Andre Johnson, Kevin Walter, Andre Davis, Jacoby Jones
TE- Owen Daniels, Mark Bruener, Joel Dreesen
LT- Duane Brown, Ephraim Salaam
LG- Chester Pitts, Kasey Studdard
C- Chris Myers, Greg Eslinger
RG- Mike Brisiel, Fred Weary
RT- Eric Winston, Rashad Butler

Defense: (25)
DE- Mario Williams, Anthony Weaver, Earl Cochran, Roosevelt Colvin
DT- Amobi Okoye, Travis Johnson, Frank Okam, Anthony Maddox, Tim Bulman
LB- Demeco Ryans, Morlon Greenwood, Zac Diles, Xavier Adibi, Chaun Thompson, Kevin Bentley
CB- Fred Bennett, Jacques Reeves, Antwan Molden, Jimmy Williams, Demarcus Faggins, Jamar Fletcher
S- CC Brown, Will Demps, Glenn Earl, Brandon Harrison

Special Teams: (3)
K- Kris Brown
P- Matt Turk
LS- Brian Pittman

IR: (1)
CB- Dunta Robinson

PS:
QB- Alex Brink
RB- Darius Walker
WR- Darnell Jenkins
LB- Ben Moffit
CB- Derrick Roberson


I like it, but a couple of things:

1. I'm guessing Frye makes the team instead of Salaam
2. I also like Brandon Mitchell over either Fletcher or JWilliams.

Otherwise, I'm right there with you.

gary
07-09-2008, 07:55 PM
I like it, but a couple of things:

1. I'm guessing Frye makes the team instead of Salaam
2. I also like Brandon Mitchell over either Fletcher or JWilliams.

Otherwise, I'm right there with you.We'll see.

Ole Miss Texan
07-09-2008, 09:17 PM
I like it, but a couple of things:

1. I'm guessing Frye makes the team instead of Salaam
2. I also like Brandon Mitchell over either Fletcher or JWilliams.

Otherwise, I'm right there with you.

I forgot about Frye. I'm convinced they see him as a guard and put him on the practice squad.

I also forgot about Dominique Barber... I think he makes the roster and plays mostly special teams this year.

TEXANRED
07-09-2008, 10:04 PM
Offense:

QB: Schaub, S.R.
WR: AJ, Walter, Davis, Jones, Anderson
RB: Green, Taylor, Slaton, Brown
FB: Leach
TE: OD, Dreesen, M.B.
OL: Brown, Pitts, Myers, Brisiel, Winston, Salaam, Studdard, Weary, White

Special Teams:

Kris Brown, Matt Turk, Pittman

Defense:

DL: Williams, A.O., Okam, Weaver, Bullman, Cochran, Maddox, Johnson
LB: Ryans, Greenwood, X, Bentley, Thompson, Colvin, Diles
DB: Bennett, Reeves, Molden, DRob, Faggins
S: Demps, Brown, Barber, Harrison, Mitchell, Ferguson

dalemurphy
07-10-2008, 01:05 AM
I forgot about Frye. I'm convinced they see him as a guard and put him on the practice squad.

I also forgot about Dominique Barber... I think he makes the roster and plays mostly special teams this year.



Oh yeah, Barber...

I don't think Salaam will keep his job because he's the 4th tackle. With the talent and depth there now, I think he's gone if he can't beat out Butler. After all, Pitts, Briesel, and Frye can all serve as the 4th tackle- not to mention their youth and ability to play at guard as well. When you only dress seven OLmen, it's better to have someone that can swing outside or play inside.

If Salaam makes the team as the 4th tackle, he'll never even dress unless we have injuries to one of the three tackles.

gary
07-10-2008, 09:29 AM
Oh yeah, Barber...

I don't think Salaam will keep his job because he's the 4th tackle. With the talent and depth there now, I think he's gone if he can't beat out Butler. After all, Pitts, Briesel, and Frye can all serve as the 4th tackle- not to mention their youth and ability to play at guard as well. When you only dress seven OLmen, it's better to have someone that can swing outside or play inside.

If Salaam makes the team as the 4th tackle, he'll never even dress unless we have injuries to one of the three tackles.I really think that Salaam is getting old and run down and it's time that we give someone like Butler a chance to shine. I really like our depth this year and hope that we have this depth for years to come. I really don't exspect a guy like Salaam to make this team when like you said we do have three other guys who are more than capable of playing that LT spot. I really think it's time to get some younger players on that OL and that's what playing Butler does instead of playing Salaam if Salaam does make this team I'd say that he only has another year or two left in this league and that's about it for his career IMO.

HOU-TEX
07-10-2008, 10:22 AM
Time to go home, so I took a quick stab at it... may edit later

Offense: (25)
QB- Matt Schaub, Sage Rosenfels
RB- Ahman Green, Chris Brown, Chris Taylor, Steve Slaton
FB- Vonta Leach, Jameel Cook
WR- Andre Johnson, Kevin Walter, Andre Davis, Jacoby Jones, Darnell Jenkins
TE- Owen Daniels, Mark Bruener, Joel Dreesen
LT- Duane Brown, Ephraim Salaam
LG- Chester Pitts
C- Chris Myers, Chris White (C & G)
RG- Mike Brisiel, Fred Weary
RT- Eric Winston, Rashad Butler

Defense: (25)
DE- Mario Williams, Anthony Weaver, Earl Cochran, Roosevelt Colvin
DT- Amobi Okoye, Travis Johnson, Frank Okam, Anthony Maddox, Tim Bulman
LB- Demeco Ryans, Morlon Greenwood, Zac Diles, Xavier Adibi, Chaun Thompson, Kevin Bentley
CB- Fred Bennett, Jacques Reeves, Antwan Molden, Jammar Fletcher, Demarcus Faggins
S- CC Brown, Will Demps, Glenn Earl, Brandon Harrison, Dominique Barber

Special Teams: (3)
K- Kris Brown
P- Matt Turk
LS- Brian Pittman

IR: (1)
CB- Dunta Robinson

PS:
QB- Alex Brink
RB- Darius Walker
WR-
G- Brandon Frye
LB- Ben Moffit
CB- Derrick Roberson
OG- Kasey Studdard

Not bad at all. I'll add and subtract a little to provide my opinion.

1. We'll likely carry 5 WR's and the 5th is really up for grabs. I think someone will beat Anderson out. Maybe Darnell Jenkins? Too bad, cuz I liked DA.

2. I think it's doubtful we carry 10 OL. If Weary is cleared for TC I think it'll send Studdard to the PS. Chris White can play both G and C. I think 9 OLinemen will be the max, he might even take it down to 8.

3. Jimmy Williams?? I think it's Fletch's job to lose. I'm hoping someone can unseat Faggins. Maybe Derrick Roberson?

4. Earl must dress and impress in TC to stay on the squad. We have too many S on the team to be dickin with injuries. Brandon Mitchell might have a shot if Earl doesn't impress.

Lucky
07-10-2008, 12:16 PM
We are now in our third year under this regime and we've spent a lot of resources on this line.
Really? Only 1st round pick and zero high priced FAs. I wouldn't say the Texans have shopped strictly at the dollar store here, but it's nothing compared to the Saks prices spent on the d-line.

I'm having a difficult time believing I'm the guy defending Salaam's spot on the team. I wanted him replaced in the draft, and was hoping for Chris Williams. That didn't happen, but I've totally bought into the Duane Brown pick and am in total agreement that he should get every chance at the starting LT spot. Salaam has been a fringe starter his entire career. He's been replaced in Atlanta by Todd Weiner, in Denver by Matt Lepsis, in Jax by Khalif Barnes, and hopefully in Houston by Duane Brown. Salaam wouldn't have even been a starter the past 2 seasons but for injuries at the Tackle position.

But what Salaam has going for him is 9 seasons of starting experience in the NFL. Playing both Tackle spots. I understand that Rashad Butler has more potential, and could even beat Salaam for the swing Tackle spot. That would be great. But Brown and Butler have zero games as starting NFL Tackles between them. Zero.

I can't see Gary Kubiak and Alex Gibbs going into the season with that stat staring them in the face. I would consider Salaam a security blanket for the '08 season. A season critical for this team and this staff. All goes well, they can send Salaam on his way in '09. Not just yet.

Ole Miss Texan
07-10-2008, 12:29 PM
Getting rid of Salaam would be like getting rid of Sage. Both have capabilities of stepping into the starting role if injuries come up, with out missing too much of a beat (if any). However, neither is a longterm answer for their respective positions on this team.

I love the arguement for grooming a young guy with potential behind the starter- but that young guy being groomed is Brown. We still need some veteran presence on the team, especially while we're transitioning to Gibb's style of play.

ChampionTexan
07-10-2008, 12:57 PM
Really? Only 1st round pick and zero high priced FAs. I wouldn't say the Texans have shopped strictly at the dollar store here, but it's nothing compared to the Saks prices spent on the d-line.

I'm having a difficult time believing I'm the guy defending Salaam's spot on the team. I wanted him replaced in the draft, and was hoping for Chris Williams. That didn't happen, but I've totally bought into the Duane Brown pick and am in total agreement that he should get every chance at the starting LT spot. Salaam has been a fringe starter his entire career. He's been replaced in Atlanta by Todd Weiner, in Denver by Matt Lepsis, in Jax by Khalif Barnes, and hopefully in Houston by Duane Brown. Salaam wouldn't have even been a starter the past 2 seasons but for injuries at the Tackle position.

But what Salaam has going for him is 9 seasons of starting experience in the NFL. Playing both Tackle spots. I understand that Rashad Butler has more potential, and could even beat Salaam for the swing Tackle spot. That would be great. But Brown and Butler have zero games as starting NFL Tackles between them. Zero.

I can't see Gary Kubiak and Alex Gibbs going into the season with that stat staring them in the face. I would consider Salaam a security blanket for the '08 season. A season critical for this team and this staff. All goes well, they can send Salaam on his way in '09. Not just yet.

You're not the only one!

I won't just parrot your comments, but given his experience, Salaam's probably the best choice to play OLT if for one reason or another, someone other than Brown is playing that position this year. If Brown plays every snap of the 2008 season at OLT, then Salaam is unquestionably the best option to be his backup.

ObsiWan
07-10-2008, 02:40 PM
If they thought Salaam wasn't going to make the squad, they would have let him go just as they did Quinn Gray....
...to give him a shot to get picked up by someone else prior to T/C.

I'm with Champ, Ole Miss, & Lucky. Salaam is damned good insurance at the LT spot. And with him not having to play every down in every game, I'm thinking that his spot appearances will be of higher quality.

kiwitexansfan
07-10-2008, 03:37 PM
I'd put money on the fact that Salaam is going to start on the line sometime this season. He is an oldie but a goodie, sure he isn't the greatest LT in the League but he is probably the best LT the Texans have ever had.

infantrycak
07-10-2008, 03:56 PM
he isn't the greatest LT in the League but he is probably the best LT the Texans have ever had.

Chester Pitts and his 5.75 sacks allowed in 2003 might argue the point.

I think Salaam makes the team.

gary
07-10-2008, 04:05 PM
Maybe just another year or two for Salaam and that would be it.

barrett
07-10-2008, 05:04 PM
Really? Only 1st round pick and zero high priced FAs. I wouldn't say the Texans have shopped strictly at the dollar store here, but it's nothing compared to the Saks prices spent on the d-line.

I'm having a difficult time believing I'm the guy defending Salaam's spot on the team. I wanted him replaced in the draft, and was hoping for Chris Williams. That didn't happen, but I've totally bought into the Duane Brown pick and am in total agreement that he should get every chance at the starting LT spot. Salaam has been a fringe starter his entire career. He's been replaced in Atlanta by Todd Weiner, in Denver by Matt Lepsis, in Jax by Khalif Barnes, and hopefully in Houston by Duane Brown. Salaam wouldn't have even been a starter the past 2 seasons but for injuries at the Tackle position.

But what Salaam has going for him is 9 seasons of starting experience in the NFL. Playing both Tackle spots. I understand that Rashad Butler has more potential, and could even beat Salaam for the swing Tackle spot. That would be great. But Brown and Butler have zero games as starting NFL Tackles between them. Zero.

I can't see Gary Kubiak and Alex Gibbs going into the season with that stat staring them in the face. I would consider Salaam a security blanket for the '08 season. A season critical for this team and this staff. All goes well, they can send Salaam on his way in '09. Not just yet.

absolutely great post and great points all across the board.

key to me is i just don't see Kubiak being comfortable with D. Brown at LT without Salaam behind him for one season.


If they thought Salaam wasn't going to make the squad, they would have let him go just as they did Quinn Gray....
...to give him a shot to get picked up by someone else prior to T/C.

I'm with Champ, Ole Miss, & Lucky. Salaam is damned good insurance at the LT spot. And with him not having to play every down in every game, I'm thinking that his spot appearances will be of higher quality.

and i think Salaam is that insurance policy that makes Kubiak comfortable throwing Brown to the wolves

Getting rid of Salaam would be like getting rid of Sage. Both have capabilities of stepping into the starting role if injuries come up, with out missing too much of a beat (if any). However, neither is a longterm answer for their respective positions on this team.

not taking anything away from the younger options but when it comes to security it's a pretty big gamble to have inexperience as your security net specifically for this one season

If they thought Salaam wasn't going to make the squad, they would have let him go just as they did Quinn Gray....
...to give him a shot to get picked up by someone else prior to T/C.

I'm with Champ, Ole Miss, & Lucky. Salaam is damned good insurance at the LT spot. And with him not having to play every down in every game, I'm thinking that his spot appearances will be of higher quality.

great observation Obsi, i agree with that thinking as well. he would have been given a chance elsewhere. but i also agree with dull murphy that if salaam doesn't make the team that that says alot about our young talent that we do have.

Insideop
07-10-2008, 10:12 PM
OK, let me give this a shot.

QB- Schaub, Rosenfels, Boyd
RB- Green, Brown, Taylor, Slaton
FB- Leach, Cook
WR- Johnson, Walter, Davis, Jones, Anderson
OT- Winston, Brown, Salaam, Butler
OG- Pitts, Brisiel, Studdard
OC- Myers, White
TE- Daniels, Bruener, Dreessen

Total Offense- 26

DE- Williams, Weaver, Bulman, Colvin, Cochran
DT- Okoye, Johnson, Maddox, Okam
LB- Ryans, Greenwood, Diles, Thompson, Adibi, Bentley
CB- Bennett, Molden, Reeves, Faggins
S- Brown, Demps, Earl, Mitchell, Harrison

Total Defense- 24

LS- Pittman
K- Brown
P- Turk

Total ST- 3

Pup- Weary

IR- Robinson

PS- Abbate, Barber, Brink, Frye, Moffitt, Nading, Walker, Jenkins

Well, this is what I came up with for now. I know a lot will change between now and opening day, but this is what I think they will look like on opening day at this point in time. It's a fun exercise :jogger: that keeps the brain going during this slow period. :user:

threetoedpete
07-10-2008, 10:49 PM
Pittman will almost certainly make the team. I know it is tempting every year to get rid of the long snapper but almost every team has one.

They will probably carry more than 5 CB's.

I've seen a lot of LS's cut this off season. I think it goes 180 degrees against Kubiak's nature. Pittman makes the team.

threetoedpete
07-10-2008, 11:11 PM
I like it, but a couple of things:

1. I'm guessing Frye makes the team instead of Salaam
2. I also like Brandon Mitchell over either Fletcher or JWilliams.

Otherwise, I'm right there with you.

We'll see. My guess is Kubiak will keep the devil he knows over the devil he doesn't. he knows in pinch Salaam can give him Quality starts @ OLT. If they do this , cut a guy who provided them outstanding service above and beyond what anyone could of ever in their wildest dream expected at the time...Salaam would be the first vet they've screwed over. If anything they've done the exact opposite. all you know bout Frye at this point is that when weary went down, when the two centers went down...Frye wasn't an option.

Fletcher is the dime guy covering the slot. He's not going any where unless he's hurt.

threetoedpete
07-10-2008, 11:22 PM
IR- Robinson

You're going to put him on the shelf for the year...with the contract expiring in an uncapped year ? Good luck with that one. Either they pup him with a new contract or cut him. There is no third option. IMHO.

The Pencil Neck
07-10-2008, 11:27 PM
all you know bout Frye at this point is that when weary went down, when the two centers went down...Frye wasn't an option.


Not that I'm disagreeing with you on this. But Frye wasn't an option because he was on IR, right? It wasn't like Studdard where they put him in and then pulled him back out and put White in and then finally Brisiel in.

threetoedpete
07-10-2008, 11:40 PM
Not that I'm disagreeing with you on this. But Frye wasn't an option because he was on IR, right? It wasn't like Studdard where they put him in and then pulled him back out and put White in and then finally Brisiel in.

all I remember is he got the one start then got hurt....before that, there was a dire need @ center, like the Atlanta game, where Grady Jackson lite up Flanagan like a Christmas tree, and he couldn't get on the field. Pitts was playing hurt, Salaam's playing hurt two centers down...Frye can't get on to the field. maybe I'm ready too much here. I can take a hint. Frye isn't playing center or OLT.

The Pencil Neck
07-11-2008, 01:45 AM
all I remember is he got the one start then got hurt....before that, there was a dire need @ center, like the Atlanta game, where Grady Jackson lite up Flanagan like a Christmas tree, and he couldn't get on the field. Pitts was playing hurt, Salaam's playing hurt two centers down...Frye can't get on to the field. maybe I'm ready too much here. I can take a hint. Frye isn't playing center or OLT.

My bad. Frye was on the PS the first 8 games and then made the roster the final 8 games but was never activated for a game.

And... yeah, you're right. That's not a whole lot of confidence in the kid when we needed a warm body to stick in there. Especially if they're looking at him as a guard and not a tackle.

BattleRedToro
07-11-2008, 07:58 AM
I remember reading that the Texans were going to try Frye at Guard.

V3rm0nt3r
07-11-2008, 01:00 PM
OK, let me give this a shot.

QB- Schaub, Rosenfels, Boyd
RB- Green, Brown, Taylor, Slaton
FB- Leach, Cook
WR- Johnson, Walter, Davis, Jones, Anderson
OT- Winston, Brown, Salaam, Butler
OG- Pitts, Brisiel, Studdard
OC- Myers, White
TE- Daniels, Bruener, Dreessen

Total Offense- 26

DE- Williams, Weaver, Bulman, Colvin, Cochran
DT- Okoye, Johnson, Maddox, Okam
LB- Ryans, Greenwood, Diles, Thompson, Adibi, Bentley
CB- Bennett, Molden, Reeves, Faggins
S- Brown, Demps, Earl, Mitchell, Harrison

Total Defense- 24

LS- Pittman
K- Brown
P- Turk

Total ST- 3

Pup- Weary

IR- Robinson

PS- Abbate, Barber, Brink, Frye, Moffitt, Nading, Walker, Jenkins

Well, this is what I came up with for now. I know a lot will change between now and opening day, but this is what I think they will look like on opening day at this point in time. It's a fun exercise :jogger: that keeps the brain going during this slow period. :user:

your probably right on almost all of these but i don't think Kubiak will keep Cook for another year with not only Abbate healthy but with such a deep backfield. correct me if im wrong but isn't one of the key attributes of Cook's game his versatility. now you have Walker on PS and Walker isn't a bad player. sure 3 out of the 5 RBs on the roster are injury prone but the number 5 looks pretty safe to me.

my only other prediction is that Grice-Mullen will come back during TC unless Simmons, Carter, or Tim McCoy show that they can beat out Anderson for the last spot. It happened with Walker last year and i remember a Rick Smith interview where he said that Walker couldn't believe he wasn't drafted after leaving after his junior season and got destracted during OTAs with that fact. i don't know if that is what happened here but consivably it could be. yeah he played in a pass heavy offense but he was still a threat. i don't know if he beats out Anderson for the 5th spot or even Jenkins for PS but he'll be back.

dalemurphy
07-11-2008, 03:56 PM
You're not the only one!

I won't just parrot your comments, but given his experience, Salaam's probably the best choice to play OLT if for one reason or another, someone other than Brown is playing that position this year. If Brown plays every snap of the 2008 season at OLT, then Salaam is unquestionably the best option to be his backup.


When we talk CBs, you guys so infatuated with experience, be sure to pipe up in defense of Petey Faggins!

Lucky
07-11-2008, 04:03 PM
When we talk CBs, you guys so infatuated with experience, be sure to pipe up in defense of Petey Faggins!
Salaam's not as bad as Petey. Come on! Besides, didn't the Texans bring in a CB with some experience (Reeves)?

Specnatz
07-11-2008, 04:12 PM
When we talk CBs, you guys so infatuated with experience, be sure to pipe up in defense of Petey Faggins!

It is not just about experience it is about who can at least be servicable and perform the job. Faggins sucks and is completely worthless in my opinion he is not even a good nickle corner. Hell I am not sure I would put him against any WR in the league cause I do not know any the run4.7 and are only 6' tall.

At least Salaam you can put in there and you know he is not a world beater but you know it was not be the autoban of DE going by him.

dalemurphy
07-11-2008, 04:20 PM
Salaam's not as bad as Petey. Come on! Besides, didn't the Texans bring in a CB with some experience (Reeves)?



1. Petey had a bad season last year, no doubt. However, many Jaguar fans would gladly tell you how bad Salaam was for a couple years as well. Also, just because overall sacks were down doesn't mean that I was dreaming when I saw Salaam getting thrown around like a rag doll most of the year.

2. We're going to start the season with a second year CB, Reeves (who has only started about 12 games in his career) and a Div. II rookie- as our top three CBs, probably.... Somehow, that situation doesn't encourage members of this board to want a stable veteran like Faggins... Yet, our OL has very good depth this year with plenty of tackle options to be explored, and people scream over keeping Salaam... I just don't get it!

ChampionTexan
07-11-2008, 05:07 PM
1. Petey had a bad season last year, no doubt. However, many Jaguar fans would gladly tell you how bad Salaam was for a couple years as well. Also, just because overall sacks were down doesn't mean that I was dreaming when I saw Salaam getting thrown around like a rag doll most of the year.

2. We're going to start the season with a second year CB, Reeves (who has only started about 12 games in his career) and a Div. II rookie- as our top three CBs, probably.... Somehow, that situation doesn't encourage members of this board to want a stable veteran like Faggins... Yet, our OL has very good depth this year with plenty of tackle options to be explored, and people scream over keeping Salaam... I just don't get it!

1. After 2 years of decent (nobody said great) play, I don't care what Jacksonville fans think of Salaam any more than Patriots fans care what we (or Philly fans) think of Jabar Gaffney. I don't see Gibbs and Kubiak sitting down with him and saying "We just realized you sucked two years ago in J'ville, so we're gonna have to let you go.

2. Reeves has only started 14 games, but he's played in 60 games. I don't know how many of those were ST only, and how many were as a replacement or nickel, but I do know he's gone through 4 Training Camps, and 4 years worth of in-season practices and game review/prep.

And no, I don't compare Faggins to Salaam just because he has experience. If experience were the only thing I cared about, I'd still want Jordan Black around. Salaam is servicable as a starter, and above average as a backup. Typically guys don't spend 10-plus years in the NFL if they don't have something to offer. If you're going to try to bust on Reeves because he's only got "about 12" starts in the NFL, how about giving some credit to Salaam for having 129

dalemurphy
07-11-2008, 05:27 PM
1. After 2 years of decent (nobody said great) play, I don't care what Jacksonville fans think of Salaam any more than Patriots fans care what we (or Philly fans) think of Jabar Gaffney. I don't see Gibbs and Kubiak sitting down with him and saying "We just realized you sucked two years ago in J'ville, so we're gonna have to let you go.

2. Reeves has only started 14 games, but he's played in 60 games. I don't know how many of those were ST only, and how many were as a replacement or nickel, but I do know he's gone through 4 Training Camps, and 4 years worth of in-season practices and game review/prep.

And no, I don't compare Faggins to Salaam just because he has experience. If experience were the only thing I cared about, I'd still want Jordan Black around. Salaam is servicable as a starter, and above average as a backup. Typically guys don't spend 10-plus years in the NFL if they don't have something to offer. If you're going to try to bust on Reeves because he's only got "about 12" starts in the NFL, how about giving some credit to Salaam for having 129


I'm not busting on Reeves. I'm excited about him. I am not the one arguing that experience should carry heavy weight at a position. We've been in a talent deficit for a long time and have finally climbed out of it. So, the last thing I want to see this season are guys like : Salaam, Zoniga, Faggins, Fletcher, Ferguson, etc... make this team because they have experience. Meanwhile, talented players get cut becuase they are unproven.

Regarding Salaam, specifically, I'd rather have a fall back plan of using Pitts at LT if Brown and Butler falter if that enables us to keep a promising young player like Studdard or Frye.

I don't believe this team can win anything of significance with Salaam at LT. That's what I've learned from all of his experience in Houston. I appreciate his efforts and the contributions he made, much like I appreciated Ron Dayne, and Billy Miller... But they aren't good enough to contribute substantively on a team trying to win the AFC south and make Superbowls.

Ole Miss Texan
07-11-2008, 05:45 PM
We just got Duane Brown to be our franchise LT.
Ephraim Salaam provides quality depth as a LT.

If Duane Brown goes down for an extended amount of time, Salaam provides servicable play. If Brown goes down due to injury, we've got problems. He'd be injured, unable to play, practice, etc. would lose the quality learning time and experience... it'd be Charles Spencer all over again. What I hear some of you saying is, IF that were to happen again you would want the next franchise young left tackle to be the back up to be able to step in and play without missing a beat.

I think it would be unrealistic to expect to get two brand new starter quality young left tackles in one offseason. Salaam is good insurance that gives us time to find quality starters/depth at other positions for another 1/2/3 years and not have to worry about finding one for the LT spot.

76Texan
07-12-2008, 10:41 AM
Regarding Derrick Roberson, I was wrong when I thought he was released.

It was a different guy, Derrick Johnson, who was cut.

5/29/2008 Waived CB Derrick Johnson

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/Transactions.asp

ObsiWan
07-12-2008, 11:20 AM
When we talk CBs, you guys so infatuated with experience, be sure to pipe up in defense of Petey Faggins!

LOL
Now you knew when you formed this thought it was wrong.
Like 3TP said, its the devil he knows vs. the devil he doesn't. And I'll say it again, if Kubes felt that Salaam was gonna be cut, he would have already released him out of respect. See Quinn Gray or Jordan Black.

Its not just experience
its the QUALITY of that experience vs. the quality of the alternatives.
OLT
Brown, Salaam, Frye, Butler
IMHO Salaam is the better option of the three guys behind Brown.

CB
Bennett, Reeves, J.Williams, Fletcher, Faggins, Molden, Roberson
Once you get past Reeves (we know he's only a placeholder till Dunta is 100%) and Molden (who's this year's project CB) you can put the others in a bag and grab any one of 'em.

My guess is, there's gonna be a free-for-all between Faggins, Fletcher, Williams, and Roberson for that last CB spot. And Petey may have the inside track due to starting experience with the team, but unlike Salaam, it wasn't of high enough quality to make me wanna keep him as "insurance". Actually, no one of that last four inspires gobs of confidence:
- Faggins' photo is in the dictionary next to the word "TOAST".
- Fletch is too small for my tastes.
- Williams was a decent cover guy in Seattle but didn't even make a team last year
- Roberson is a P/S guy without the size/speed that Molden brings to the table.

dalemurphy
07-12-2008, 01:00 PM
LOL
Now you knew when you formed this thought it was wrong.
Like 3TP said, its the devil he knows vs. the devil he doesn't. And I'll say it again, if Kubes felt that Salaam was gonna be cut, he would have already released him out of respect. See Quinn Gray or Jordan Black.

Its not just experience
its the QUALITY of that experience vs. the quality of the alternatives.
OLT
Brown, Salaam, Frye, Butler
IMHO Salaam is the better option of the three guys behind Brown.

CB
Bennett, Reeves, J.Williams, Fletcher, Faggins, Molden, Roberson
Once you get past Reeves (we know he's only a placeholder till Dunta is 100%) and Molden (who's this year's project CB) you can put the others in a bag and grab any one of 'em.

My guess is, there's gonna be a free-for-all between Faggins, Fletcher, Williams, and Roberson for that last CB spot. And Petey may have the inside track due to starting experience with the team, but unlike Salaam, it wasn't of high enough quality to make me wanna keep him as "insurance". Actually, no one of that last four inspires gobs of confidence:
- Faggins photo is in the dictionary next to the word "TOAST".
- Fletch is too small for my tastes.
- Williams was a decent cover guy in Seattle but didn't even make a team last year
- Roberson is a P/S guy without the size/speed that Molden brings to the table.



I don't understand what you people are watching when you come away with the impression that Salaam is a "quality" tackle. Sure, he's better than Jimmy Herndon and Victor Riley but that's not what we're talking about. In order to keep Salaam on the team, people like Briesel, Studdard, Frye, Butler, C.White are going to be cut. I wouldn't do that in order to keep Salaam. If Butler beats out Salaam at swing tackle, then I would use Pitts or Frye for further tackle depth and keep someone younger with more ability from the list above.

The idea that Salaam doesn't have to win his job in what will be a highly competitive camp doesn't make sense. Faggins has been on the team since 2002. Why wouldn't he be guaranteed a job if he wasn't already cut.. I don't understand the distinction everyone is making.

What's so special about Salaam?

b0ng
07-12-2008, 01:18 PM
What's so special about Salaam?

1.) Salaam != Faggins. Those are two entirely different positions. One keeps your QB healthy, the other tries not to get burned deep.

2.) Salaam has about 10 times the game experience that Butler, Frye and Brown have put together. Not for nothing, but what happens if you put Duane Brown in at left tacke in game 1 vs Pittsburgh and Jerry Porter comes in untouched and wrecks Matt Schaub? Put in Butler? Okay, what if that happens again? You at least know what you're getting in Salaam and that's the distinction. As much as we want Brown to succeed he hasn't done it yet, and frankly, I'd keep Salaam over White, Butler, and Frye just because he is a capable LT. He's not great, not even good, but Schaub will at least survive a few games with him in there.

I think that's why everybody is in favor of keeping a 10+ veteran who CAN do the job rather than a rookie or 2 year pro who hasn't played any games that we don't know if they are even capable of playing on this level. Right?

However, during training camp, if it is shown that Salaam just doesn't have what it takes anymore, or that all other options are better, then yeah go ahead and cut him. But I don't think we'll see him getting cut unless we have a lot of great things happen in TC (Like the entire OT department just showing up big). Also, I'd be on board with any decisions Kubiak or Gibbs makes reguarding the line.

ChampionTexan
07-12-2008, 02:39 PM
I don't understand what you people are watching when you come away with the impression that Salaam is a "quality" tackle. Sure, he's better than Jimmy Herndon and Victor Riley but that's not what we're talking about. In order to keep Salaam on the team, people like Briesel, Studdard, Frye, Butler, C.White are going to be cut. I wouldn't do that in order to keep Salaam. If Butler beats out Salaam at swing tackle, then I would use Pitts or Frye for further tackle depth and keep someone younger with more ability from the list above.

The idea that Salaam doesn't have to win his job in what will be a highly competitive camp doesn't make sense. Faggins has been on the team since 2002. Why wouldn't he be guaranteed a job if he wasn't already cut.. I don't understand the distinction everyone is making.

What's so special about Salaam?

I have a hard time seeing Brisiel not making this team regardless, and if White or Studdard are cut, I don't believe it's going to have anything to do with us keeping Salaam.

I don't believe anybody ever said Salaam shouldn't have to earn the roster spot - but including him in a predicted 53 man roster kind of implies the belief on the part of the poster that he will earn it.

My point is that with Brown coming on board as the hoped for 10-year solution, youth and future upside gets less weight when selecting a backup. I want to know who's better today if we need him, and who will help make Duane Brown a better OLT down the road if we don't. As to who's better today, clearly at the end of the '07 season, the coaches thought it was Salaam or they wouldn't have been starting him. Both Butler and Frye were available last year, and neither was deemed to be a better option than Salaam. Has the offseason allowed Frye or Butler to become better offensive linemen than Salaam, or has an additional 8 months of time caused Salaam's skills to deteriorate to the point where he's not as good as those two guys? I'm thinking the answer is no. If training camp causes the coaches to say it has, then I'm good with that, but I'm just addressing the question that was posed. As to who can make Duane Brown better down the road, I just believe 10 years of experience and well over 100 starts give Salaam the opportunity to become a tremendous mentor.

You made the comment earlier that you were concerned about Frye clearing waivers if they put him on the PS. I'm not. I don't think anyone will claim him. He's a 5th round pick who didn't get claimed in the first half of the '07 season, and I don't think 8 games of being inactive will change that for '08. If I'm right, and he does go on the PS, and develops, then great-maybe he can take Salaam's place as backup OT when he retires (which if it happened after next year wouldn't surprise me at all). As to Butler, my belief is that he'll be on the roster as the 4th OT in addition to Salaam.

I'm not expecting you to change you're opinion, just clarifying a different one.

barrett
07-12-2008, 05:17 PM
...My point is that with Brown coming on board as the hoped for 10-year solution, youth and future upside gets less weight when selecting a backup. I want to know who's better today if we need him, and who will help make Duane Brown a better OLT down the road if we don't. As to who's better today, clearly at the end of the '07 season, the coaches thought it was Salaam or they wouldn't have been starting him. Both Butler and Frye were available last year, and neither was deemed to be a better option than Salaam. Has the offseason allowed Frye or Butler to become better offensive linemen than Salaam, or has an additional 8 months of time caused Salaam's skills to deteriorate to the point where he's not as good as those two guys? I'm thinking the answer is no. If training camp causes the coaches to say it has, then I'm good with that

excellent angle. great point.

I don't think anyone will claim (Frye). He's a 5th round pick who didn't get claimed in the first half of the '07 season, and I don't think 8 games of being inactive will change that for '08. If I'm right, and he does go on the PS, and develops, then great.

yeah. me too. what he said there also.

dalemurphy
07-12-2008, 05:20 PM
I have a hard time seeing Brisiel not making this team regardless, and if White or Studdard are cut, I don't believe it's going to have anything to do with us keeping Salaam.

I don't believe anybody ever said Salaam shouldn't have to earn the roster spot - but including him in a predicted 53 man roster kind of implies the belief on the part of the poster that he will earn it.

My point is that with Brown coming on board as the hoped for 10-year solution, youth and future upside gets less weight when selecting a backup. I want to know who's better today if we need him, and who will help make Duane Brown a better OLT down the road if we don't. As to who's better today, clearly at the end of the '07 season, the coaches thought it was Salaam or they wouldn't have been starting him. Both Butler and Frye were available last year, and neither was deemed to be a better option than Salaam. Has the offseason allowed Frye or Butler to become better offensive linemen than Salaam, or has an additional 8 months of time caused Salaam's skills to deteriorate to the point where he's not as good as those two guys? I'm thinking the answer is no. If training camp causes the coaches to say it has, then I'm good with that, but I'm just addressing the question that was posed. As to who can make Duane Brown better down the road, I just believe 10 years of experience and well over 100 starts give Salaam the opportunity to become a tremendous mentor.

You made the comment earlier that you were concerned about Frye clearing waivers if they put him on the PS. I'm not. I don't think anyone will claim him. He's a 5th round pick who didn't get claimed in the first half of the '07 season, and I don't think 8 games of being inactive will change that for '08. If I'm right, and he does go on the PS, and develops, then great-maybe he can take Salaam's place as backup OT when he retires (which if it happened after next year wouldn't surprise me at all). As to Butler, my belief is that he'll be on the roster as the 4th OT in addition to Salaam.

I'm not expecting you to change you're opinion, just clarifying a different one.


a few things:

1. The argument was that Salaam wouldn't be cut now. If the coaches were going to cut him, they would've done it already. My argument is that he'd better be one of the 9 best OLmen on this team if he makes it, and, I don't believe he will be when the dust settles in the preseason.

2. Furthermore, I've been saying that if Butler beats out Salaam as the swing tackle, it is at that point that I believe we need to cut Salaam. If Butler can't do that, then I agree he should make the team.

3. The tremendous upgrade in coaching combined with the talent and the acquired experience over the past year had better improved the quality of play of Studdard and Frye.

4. Watch tape of last season. Salaam was flopping all over the place. He was consistently getting beat pretty badly.

ObsiWan
07-12-2008, 05:20 PM
The idea that Salaam doesn't have to win his job in what will be a highly competitive camp doesn't make sense. Faggins has been on the team since 2002. Why wouldn't he be guaranteed a job if he wasn't already cut.. I don't understand the distinction everyone is making.

What's so special about Salaam?

Hell, I liked the Frye pick. I thought he was going to make his move last year. But apparently he didn't show enough to move Salaam out last season. Maybe he will be a better fit under Gibbs' system. Maybe.
we'll see when camp starts.... I can hardly wait


a few things:

1. The argument was that Salaam wouldn't be cut now. If the coaches were going to cut him, they would've done it already. My argument is that he'd better be one of the 9 best OLmen on this team if he makes it, and, I don't believe he will be when the dust settles in the preseason.

The fact that he hasn't been cut already merely indicates the coaches aren't all that impressed with Butler or White over Salaam. For example, they knew Jordan Black didn't stand a chance so he's gone. That's not to say that the younguns can't/won't step up in T/C and beat the old man out. If Salaam gets outplayed, he gets cut. No argument.


2. Furthermore, I've been saying that if Butler beats out Salaam as the swing tackle, it is at that point that I believe we need to cut Salaam. If Butler can't do that, then I agree he should make the team.

No one is arguing against this viewpoint.


3. The tremendous upgrade in coaching combined with the talent and the acquired experience over the past year had better improved the quality of play of Studdard and Frye.

This remains to be seen.


4. Watch tape of last season. Salaam was flopping all over the place. He was consistently getting beat pretty badly.


no one said that Salaam would be GIVEN his job. Those days are over. All I'm saying is that, until one or more of those young'uns go out and prove otherwise, Salaam is the better option at backup.

dalemurphy
07-12-2008, 05:20 PM
excellent angle. great point.



yeah. me too. what he said there also.



If he has a good preseason they will!

dalemurphy
07-12-2008, 05:24 PM
1.) Salaam != Faggins. Those are two entirely different positions. One keeps your QB healthy, the other tries not to get burned deep.

2.) Salaam has about 10 times the game experience that Butler, Frye and Brown have put together. Not for nothing, but what happens if you put Duane Brown in at left tacke in game 1 vs Pittsburgh and Jerry Porter comes in untouched and wrecks Matt Schaub?


That would be amazing! The fact that you envision Jerry Porter playing for Pittsburgh in 2008 belies your view of Salaam being the best option for us at LT in 2008... Only two years ago, you would've been right on both counts.

Kaiser Toro
07-12-2008, 05:31 PM
That would be amazing! The fact that you envision Jerry Porter playing for Pittsburgh in 2008 belies your view of Salaam being the best option for us at LT in 2008... Only two years ago, you would've been right on both counts.

Yes, begs a multiple choice question:

A) b0ng has become a case of life imitating virtual life.

B) he is a serious gamer and the line of roster movements in his world has become blurred

C) he had a momentary lapse of reason

D) He is the Architect and is trying to fix the glitch

E) This faux-pas once again proves that the Germans love David Hasselhoff

dalemurphy
07-12-2008, 05:33 PM
Regarding the first bolded statement, ChampionT already covered it.

Regarding the 2nd one, no one said that Salaam would be GIVEN his job. Those days are over. All I'm saying is that, until one or all of those young'uns go out and prove otherwise, Salaam is the better option at backup.

Hell, I liked the Frye pick. I thought he was going to make his move last year. But apparently he didn't show enough to move Salaam out last season. Maybe he will be a better fit under Gibbs' system. Maybe.
we'll see when camp starts.... I can hardly wait
(sings: I got my tiiiickets! I got my tiiiickets!)

You said they would've already cut him if they were going to do that...

that pretty much eliminates the possibility of cutting him in preseason if you say that they won't cut him in preseason. Am I missing something? Sounds like you're saying that he's already earned his spot on the roster regardless of the efforts, improvements, and play of others during training camp and the assessment of the staff of those players in comparison to Salaam.

ObsiWan
07-12-2008, 05:36 PM
Yes, begs a multiple choice question:

A) b0ng has become a case of life imitating virtual life.

B) he is a serious gamer and the line of roster movements in his world has become blurred

C) he had a momentary lapse of reason

D) He is the Architect and is trying to fix the glitch

E) This faux-pas once again proves that the Germans love David Hasselhoff

If "he had a momentary lapse of reason" = "temporary brain fart" then I'm going with "C" Regis.
And that's my final answer
:)

aj.
07-12-2008, 06:06 PM
... but what happens if you put Duane Brown in at left tacke in game 1 vs Pittsburgh and Jerry Porter comes in untouched and wrecks Matt Schaub?

Why would a Jags WR be rushing the passer for the Steelers?

b0ng
07-12-2008, 06:09 PM
That would be amazing! The fact that you envision Jerry Porter playing for Pittsburgh in 2008 belies your view of Salaam being the best option for us at LT in 2008... Only two years ago, you would've been right on both counts.

At least you almost acknowledged that you know who I'm talking about :rolleyes:

Why would a Jags WR be rushing the passer for the Steelers?

Great addition thanks.

dalemurphy
07-12-2008, 06:45 PM
Besides trying to encite a heated exchange, this is what I'm trying to say...


Sometime in August, the coaching staff is going to be sitting in a room, having to cut this team down to 53. When they go over this list:

Brown
Pitts
Winston
Myers
Briesel
Weary
Studdard
Frye
Butler
Eslinger
C. White
Spencer (I know!)
Salaam

They are going to be looking at 3 or 4 cuts out of that group, at least.
Assuming the top 5 guys are locks, then either Eslinger or CWhite has to make the team, then only three of these guys can make the squad:

Weary
Salaam
Butler
Frye
Spencer
Eslinger/CWhite
Studdard

There will be some tough decisions that day. I think it's likely that they're going to have enough confidence in some of that youth to let Salaam go. He's by far the oldest of the group and offers the least roster flexibility... Everyone else on that list, other than Studdard?, can play multiple positions on the line, in theory.

ChampionTexan
07-12-2008, 06:52 PM
4. Watch tape of last season. Salaam was flopping all over the place. He was consistently getting beat pretty badly.

And yet none of the guys we're talking about could displace him in the starting lineup.

dalemurphy
07-12-2008, 06:58 PM
And yet none of the guys we're talking about could displace him in the starting lineup.

Butler had a disease that was causing him to lose weight. Once resolved, he went from an afterthought to the swing tackle. Frye was a 5th round rookie they were working to convert to guard. Brown wasn't on the team.

My point, again, is that if Brown wins the starting job, which he likely will- I think Butler will likely beat out Salaam, based on the coaches' enthusiasm for his play this offseason, his youth, and superior athleticism. If that happens, treating Pitts or Briesel or Frye (if he makes the team) as our 4th option at tackle, makes more sense than hanging on to Salaam and cutting a young, athletic guard that the coaches have hopes for.

barrett
07-12-2008, 07:11 PM
11 days until each of us start building our case as to why we were right and everybody else was wrong. googoogoogoo.

dalemurphy
07-12-2008, 07:20 PM
11 days until each of us start building our case as to why we were right and everybody else was wrong. googoogoogoo.



to quote Chevy Chase,

"Barrett, you ignorant Sl*t!"... 13 days. Don't offer false hope.

ChampionTexan
07-12-2008, 08:28 PM
11 days until each of us start building our case as to why we were right and everybody else was wrong. googoogoogoo.

to quote Chevy Chase,

"Barrett, you ignorant Sl*t!"... 13 days. Don't offer false hope.

Yeah - when you're having heated in-depth discussions about backup offensive linemen, it's probably time for some real football!

The Pencil Neck
07-12-2008, 08:35 PM
At least you almost acknowledged that you know who I'm talking about :rolleyes:


You mean, the guy that's playing LB for the DOLPHINS now? :)

ObsiWan
07-12-2008, 08:53 PM
to quote Chevy Chase,

"Barrett, you ignorant Sl*t!"... 13 days. Don't offer false hope.

that was Dan Ackroyd and Jane Curtain
Listen (http://video.aol.com/partner/hulu/saturday-night-live-point-counterpoint-lee-marvin-and-michelle-triola/L40MNT7XBfXlDBk9nZRykX6Er3EYMY5u)

30 yrs later, its still funny

back to topic...
I find it interesting that no one is giving Spencer any chance of making it back to his starting job - or even supplanting Salaam as a backup OT

aj.
07-12-2008, 09:23 PM
I find it interesting that no one is giving Spencer any chance of making it back to his starting job - or even supplanting Salaam as a backup OT


I find it more interesing that anyone thinks Spencer has a chance to come back as a starter based on how it's all evolved and how it came down at the end of OTAs. It wouldn't shock me if he's cut before camp as part of the 80 pare when the rest of the draft choices sign.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4374

ObsiWan
07-13-2008, 01:54 AM
I think Smithiak are still trying to give Spencer every reasonable chance to make a comeback. I'll admit that I would be mildly surprised if he got cut before T/C but it wouldn't shock me if he didn't make the final 53.

The Pencil Neck
07-13-2008, 02:10 AM
I think Smithiak are still trying to give Spencer every reasonable chance to make a comeback. I'll admit that I would be mildly surprised if he got cut before T/C but it wouldn't shock me if he didn't make the final 53.

I'm going to be surprised if he makes it to TC. I hope he does make it and I'm cheering for him but from what I was hearing here during the OTAs and minicamp, I don't think he's going to.

TK_Gamer
07-13-2008, 03:28 AM
If I remember right, Kubiak said the next step was to see how he did around a pile. Unfortunately he and the coaches apparently didn't feel comfortable even trying that yet. I never heard anything more about it from the staff. I would assume if he does get "stress" tested on the field and doesnt measure up they will almost certainly have to make some kind of injury settlement and then release him, although I'm not really sure how that works. I personally think we are a bit thin still at OT if he is released or doesnt play. I think most teams would like to have 4 to 5 able OT's to start camp with.

dalemurphy
07-13-2008, 01:26 PM
If I remember right, Kubiak said the next step was to see how he did around a pile. Unfortunately he and the coaches apparently didn't feel comfortable even trying that yet. I never heard anything more about it from the staff. I would assume if he does get "stress" tested on the field and doesnt measure up they will almost certainly have to make some kind of injury settlement and then release him, although I'm not really sure how that works. I personally think we are a bit thin still at OT if he is released or doesnt play. I think most teams would like to have 4 to 5 able OT's to start camp with.


Brown
Winston
Salaam
Butler
Frye
Pitts
Briesel

CloakNNNdagger
07-13-2008, 04:08 PM
Brown
Winston
Salaam
Butler
Frye
Pitts
Briesel

Did Briesel ever play the tackle position?

steelbtexan
07-13-2008, 04:30 PM
Did Briesel ever play the tackle position?

Not even in college.

barrett
07-13-2008, 04:34 PM
then he's perfect! suit him up! dalemurphy's logic is flawless here. ANYONE is better than salaam. should we put faggins in at LT dale?

barrett
07-13-2008, 05:23 PM
to quote Chevy Chase,

"Barrett, you ignorant Sl*t!"... 13 days. Don't offer false hope.

at the time of that post I had gone to HT.com to check their counter and it said 11 days! right now july 13th at 4:25 pm it says 11days. my post was 22hours ago. technically that is the same day. so my claim was valid.

ObsiWan
07-13-2008, 05:36 PM
at the time of that post I had gone to HT.com to check their counter and it said 11 days! right now july 13th at 4:25 pm it says 11days. my post was 22hours ago. technically that is the same day. so my claim was valid.

Training camp in 'lebbin daze!

I got my tiiiiic-kets!
:marionaner:
I got my tiiiiic-kets!

dalemurphy
07-13-2008, 06:57 PM
Did Briesel ever play the tackle position?

Having absolutely no evidence to provide, I believe he worked fairly extensively last off-season at the tackle position.

Regardless, it's true, I may prefer a guy who played 1/2 season at RG last season over Salaam at LT... That doesn't hurt my credibility does it? If it does, then I take it back!

barrett
07-13-2008, 08:09 PM
you have pretty good cred. i wouldn't worry too much that you wiffed once. i've certainly never won an argument with you.

painekiller
07-14-2008, 12:00 AM
Having absolutely no evidence to provide, I believe he worked fairly extensively last off-season at the tackle position.

Regardless, it's true, I may prefer a guy who played 1/2 season at RG last season over Salaam at LT... That doesn't hurt my credibility does it? If it does, then I take it back!

I know he played center last spring in europe, have not heard of him working at tackle.

TK_Gamer
07-14-2008, 03:34 AM
we have alot of guys that "could" play tackle. I said "capable" as in can do an adequate job now, in a starting or swing role at the NFL level and are slotted as a tackle on the depth chart. Briesel, Pitts and Frye will probably only be at a tackle spot in an emergency/injury relief role, and Salaam I believe is a liability in the run game. wich leaves... Brown (rookie), Winston, and Butler. Ofcourse that's just my oppinion.

aj.
07-14-2008, 07:52 AM
Brisiel substituted at G in 4 preseason games in '07. He started at G in 4 regular season games after Weary got hurt.