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Silver Oak
05-06-2008, 07:32 PM
NFL teams will be held accountable for draft-day gambles

05:38 PM CDT on Monday, April 28, 2008



NEW YORK Wide receiver Mario Manningham admitted to NFL teams during the 2008 draft process that he failed drug tests at the University of Michigan.

Manningham projected as a first-round pick when he decided to skip his senior year at Michigan but his admitted marijuana use raised a character flag that triggered his draft-day slide over the weekend. The New York Giants finally selected him late in the third round.

Draft prospects with suspensions, arrests and failed drug tests have tumbled down the board the last two drafts following NFL commissioner Roger Goodell's crackdown on player misconduct in 2007. They may tumble farther and faster in 2009.

Goodell informed NFL teams at the league's annual meeting in March that he would begin holding the clubs accountable when their players stray.

"If you have an individual player that has discipline from the personal conduct policy, a portion of that salary is going to be withheld as a fine," Goodell said Monday. "And that's going to escalate."

In the past, if a player was earning $500,000 and was suspended by the league, he would not be paid his salary and his team could just pocket that money.

"Now I may say pay $250,000 of that to us 50 percent of it," Goodell said. "If it's his second incident, it might be $300,000. If it's his fourth incident, it might be $500,000."

That's how you get the attention of teams hit them where they feel it most. In the pocketbook.

Right now, there is little risk for the club. A team can draft a player with first-round value but character concerns in the fifth round and view him as tremendous bargain.

If the player doesn't work out, he doesn't work out. There's no real damage to the team. He's just another fifth-round pick who didn't make it. Except that now the clubs will be held accountable for those draft-day gambles.

"At a certain point, we can have all these policies and resources available," Goodell said. "But if you start picking the wrong people, there's nothing I can do about that. I'm not ever going to make the choices of who you can have but you're going to have to make better choices of the people you do . That's the only way I can get to that [point].

[B]"And I haven't ruled out competitive consequences, by the way draft choices and such."
But Goodell said those details are still being worked out.

In 2007, Goodell took the first step toward cleaning up the league's image by cracking down on the players, suspending Pacman Jones, Odell Thurman and Chris Henry.

The second step by Goodell in 2008 will be the crackdown on teams.


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/columnists/rgosselin/stories/042908dnspogosselin.ac2e179d.html

Corrosion
05-06-2008, 11:42 PM
"If you have an individual player that has discipline from the personal conduct policy, a portion of that salary is going to be withheld as a fine," Goodell said Monday. "And that's going to escalate."

In the past, if a player was earning $500,000 and was suspended by the league, he would not be paid his salary and his team could just pocket that money.

"Now I may say pay $250,000 of that to us 50 percent of it," Goodell said. "If it's his second incident, it might be $300,000. If it's his fourth incident, it might be $500,000."

That's how you get the attention of teams hit them where they feel it most. In the pocketbook.

Right now, there is little risk for the club. A team can draft a player with first-round value but character concerns in the fifth round and view him as tremendous bargain.

If the player doesn't work out, he doesn't work out. There's no real damage to the team. He's just another fifth-round pick who didn't make it. Except that now the clubs will be held accountable for those draft-day gambles.


Absolutely FANtastic Idea ...

kiwitexansfan
05-07-2008, 02:17 AM
Well with the Texans emphasis on character it shouldn't be too much of a problem for us.

The Bengals on the other hand better take out a second mortgage.

dc_txtech
05-07-2008, 02:48 AM
Taking away draft picks is something me and a buddy talked about a few weeks ago. Why should the Cowboys be able to acquire a huge threat like Pac-man with no more risk than a 5'th round pick? In my eyes that is not fair to the teams who don't support women beating sociopaths. Dallas will sweep anything he does under the rug (if they can) and have a guy who is scoring TD's and arranging murders at the same time and they could care less.

Silver Oak
05-07-2008, 07:19 AM
the Cowboys were the first team I thought of when reading this article, although it doesn't specifically speak about acquiring free agents that have character issues, just the draft picks.

I like the idea alot, but the financial discipline could be stepped up in my opinion.

Corrosion
05-07-2008, 09:12 AM
the Cowboys were the first team I thought of when reading this article, although it doesn't specifically speak about acquiring free agents that have character issues, just the draft picks.

I like the idea alot, but the financial discipline could be stepped up in my opinion.

In the past, if a player was earning $500,000 and was suspended by the league, he would not be paid his salary and his team could just pocket that money.

"Now I may say pay $250,000 of that to us

I dont think this applies to only draft picks .... It doesnt say If a draft pick .... It says If a player...... To me that means anyone in the league falls under this . I think what was said is that teams would gamble on bad character guy's with talent later in the draft with very little downside to taking this player .... Now when the player screws up not only is he held accountable , so is the team .

hobie
05-07-2008, 09:17 AM
I am interested in what the Players Union thinks about this......

Corrosion
05-07-2008, 09:27 AM
I am interested in what the Players Union thinks about this......

I dont see what this has to do with the NFL-PA . This is the team paying for the actions of its player . Previously if the player if suspended didnt get paid and the team kept the money , now the team will lose that cash (or a portion of it) to the league office .
How does that effect the player other than making teams think twice when they take a questionable character ?.... This makes it more difficult for the "Bad Seed" to become a member of the PA ...... I think its good for them .

Mike F.
05-07-2008, 09:45 AM
Taking away draft picks is something me and a buddy talked about a few weeks ago. Why should the Cowboys be able to acquire a huge threat like Pac-man with no more risk than a 5'th round pick? In my eyes that is not fair to the teams who don't support women beating sociopaths. Dallas will sweep anything he does under the rug (if they can) and have a guy who is scoring TD's and arranging murders at the same time and they could care less.

"the Cowboys were the first team I thought of when reading this article, although it doesn't specifically speak about acquiring free agents that have character issues, just the draft picks.

I like the idea alot, but the financial discipline could be stepped up in my opinion."

What about Ahman Green. He was arrested for domestic violence in 2005. So, I guess that means the Texans support "woman beating sociopaths".

HoustonFrog
05-07-2008, 10:28 AM
Taking away draft picks is something me and a buddy talked about a few weeks ago. Why should the Cowboys be able to acquire a huge threat like Pac-man with no more risk than a 5'th round pick? In my eyes that is not fair to the teams who don't support women beating sociopaths. Dallas will sweep anything he does under the rug (if they can) and have a guy who is scoring TD's and arranging murders at the same time and they could care less.

I'm so tired of the same old BS on the Cowboys...again. Jerry Jones took a very sound chance on a guy who might screw up and if he turns it around it works. Its not like he likes felons. He likes to give a guy another chance and if he is still a loser, like PacMan very well could be..,,then they are cut for no loss. Dallas has been far from the worst offender of having these guys over the past 5 years.

I do agree with what the commish is doing though....if you want more info on the league, here are some things I wrote before:

See this is where I get peeved. When the Cowboys had problems it was 15 years ago. 15 YEARS. The Texans have had more DWIs and problems than the Cowboys since then. The Vikings, the Bengals and a ton of others have had a lot more arrests.

Let me run some stats real quick. In 2006 the Charger team had 3 people out there who ranged from selling cough syrup, to being shot by an off duty officer to a DEA probe. The Vikings led the league in arrests in 2003, 2004 and 2005. Denver had an average of 1-2 arrests every year from 2000-2006. In 2008 the Bears had 5 arrests...Tank twice, The Chargers 6, The Bengals 10...the Cowboys 1....a guy who came from the Texans and didn't even really play..Marcus Coleman.

People need to pull their head out. I don't like what PacMan does and don't condone stupidity. But making a good deal that can either be great or go pffft doesn't bother me. Either the guy turns his life around or he is gone. I'll give him this chance. If the Cowboys let him be a thug, then I'll get peeved. For right now I'll see if his last chance was worth it. Charles Haley was a mental case and did well in Dallas. Tank didn't get in trouble last year. I am just not going to pretend that the NFL doesn't have their good and bad.

http://www.forbes.com/leadership/2007/08/13/sports-athletes-revenues-lead-cx_mw_0813nfl.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/nfl/longterm/2006/nfl_chart_12162006.html

Second Honeymoon
05-07-2008, 10:35 AM
I'm so tired of the same old BS on the Cowboys...again. Jerry Jones took a very sound chance on a guy who might screw up and if he turns it around it works. Its not like he likes felons. He likes to give a guy another chance and if he is still a loser, like PacMan very well could be..,,then they are cut for no loss. Dallas has been far from the worst offender of having these guys over the past 5 years.

don't tell that to ignorant Houston sports fan....it's all about their Napoleonic complex-agenda towards Dallas...especially the Cowboys.

some of these yayhoos actually think that the Cowboys are the Texans rival. that is just priceless, a rivalry has to go both ways and the fans in Dallas could give a rat's ass about the Texans or their fans. They know what a real rivalry is and not some wannabe rivalry like typical Houston fan. Give me a break. The Titans are our rivals.....end of story. We have a little bit of a rivalry with Jacksonville and we are the Colt's prison *****, and that is pretty much it. Rivals don't meet every 4 years......no matter how many time Houston Fan says 'Cowboys Suck' or something really intelligent and par for the course like that.

Texan_Bill
05-07-2008, 10:39 AM
. Its not like he likes felons. He likes to give a guy another chance and if he is still a loser,

Frog, let's not act like Jerrah is the purveyor of redemption here. If he signs Mike Vick or even Rae Carruth someday, it won't be because he believes in giving guys a second chance.

I do however, have your back on you saying that the Cowboys - not being one of the worst teams in the last 5 years or so, with respect to having hoodlums and offenders on their roster..

BigBull17
05-07-2008, 11:02 AM
don't tell that to ignorant Houston sports fan....it's all about their Napoleonic complex-agenda towards Dallas...especially the Cowboys.

some of these yayhoos actually think that the Cowboys are the Texans rival. that is just priceless, a rivalry has to go both ways and the fans in Dallas could give a rat's ass about the Texans or their fans. They know what a real rivalry is and not some wannabe rivalry like typical Houston fan. Give me a break. The Titans are our rivals.....end of story. We have a little bit of a rivalry with Jacksonville and we are the Colt's prison *****, and that is pretty much it. Rivals don't meet every 4 years......no matter how many time Houston Fan says 'Cowboys Suck' or something really intelligent and par for the course like that.

Damn, I would have argued, but you said end of story...

BigBull17
05-07-2008, 11:04 AM
I'm so tired of the same old BS on the Cowboys...again. Jerry Jones took a very sound chance on a guy who might screw up and if he turns it around it works. Its not like he likes felons. He likes to give a guy another chance and if he is still a loser, like PacMan very well could be..,,then they are cut for no loss. Dallas has been far from the worst offender of having these guys over the past 5 years.

I do agree with what the commish is doing though....if you want more info on the league, here are some things I wrote before:



http://www.forbes.com/leadership/2007/08/13/sports-athletes-revenues-lead-cx_mw_0813nfl.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/nfl/longterm/2006/nfl_chart_12162006.html


I really dont think it has as much to do with "helpin a guy out" or "giving a second chance". Jones just wants to win, and quit being made fun of for great regular seasons and 1st round exits. "End of story"...

Corrosion
05-07-2008, 11:29 AM
I really dont think it has as much to do with "helpin a guy out" or "giving a second chance". Jones just wants to win, and quit being made fun of for great regular seasons and 1st round exits. "End of story"...

I agree completely on Jerrah's "Motives" ..... the guy just wants win . Before now he could make moves like this with absolutely no consequences .... Now the teams have to weigh the risk vs reward of giving these people a second opportunity . The rules have changed . Rather than low risk high reward they are looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars in risk with a questionable player , the more valuable the contract the greater the risk .

HoustonFrog
05-07-2008, 11:30 AM
I really dont think it has as much to do with "helpin a guy out" or "giving a second chance". Jones just wants to win, and quit being made fun of for great regular seasons and 1st round exits. "End of story"...

Yeah he wants to win but part of that is taking a shot. Its not like he actively looks for felons. They havce a program since the "white house" days with Calvin Hill that they think works. In the SB days they took a chance on a "malcontent" like Haley and he basically helped get them to the SB and never did anythign to make things bad for the team. There are hits and misses...Spellman and Underwood with their mental issues misses. But the Titans are taking the rap on this. Jerry gets a #1 guy who really is a win/win guy. I'm 99% sure he will punk out. I don't like him. But there is that 1% that you get a Haley type deal where the guy is a stud, doesn't make waves and pretty much does his job. For the cheap price, it is worth it.

Frog, let's not act like Jerrah is the purveyor of redemption here. If he signs Mike Vick or even Rae Carruth someday, it won't be because he believes in giving guys a second chance.

I do however, have your back on you saying that the Cowboys - not being one of the worst teams in the last 5 years or so, with respect to having hoodlums and offenders on their roster..

I know TB...maybe I overstated it..lol. But overall it is a good risk/reward proposition. I think he does his homework a little more than people give him credit for. PacMan is a speeding ticket away from no job basically.

Overalls
05-07-2008, 11:41 AM
Man.... Cowboy fans get their panties twisted pretty quick.


:fans:

infantrycak
05-07-2008, 11:47 AM
Absolutely FANtastic Idea ...

Not to get back on topic, but:

Actually I think it is a horrible idea unless there is some accommodation on the cap if the team cuts a player for misconduct. Imagine player is drafted with no prior history of misconduct and gets $20 mil up front. Now he has a series of incidents. The team has no right to control the guys conduct outside of scheduled activities. Their only option is to cut him. Totally unfair to fine the team as if they have the right to control his off-duty conduct unless you say fine, no cap hit for letting miscreants go. No if you are in the Vick coming back into the league scenario it is fine because the team is knowingly taking the risk.

HoustonFrog
05-07-2008, 11:54 AM
Man.... Cowboy fans get their panties twisted pretty quick.


:fans:

Honestly, I never get mad on here for the most part..I just look to enlighten..lol:thinking:

I just think 15 years after the fact starts to get a little much when the league is full of teams doing much worse and there are players you just don't know about....Marvin Harrison.

Overalls
05-07-2008, 11:56 AM
Not to get back on topic, but:

Actually I think it is a horrible idea unless there is some accommodation on the cap if the team cuts a player for misconduct. Imagine player is drafted with no prior history of misconduct and gets $20 mil up front. Now he has a series of incidents. The team has no right to control the guys conduct outside of scheduled activities. Their only option is to cut him. Totally unfair to fine the team as if they have the right to control his off-duty conduct unless you say fine, no cap hit for letting miscreants go. No if you are in the Vick coming back into the league scenario it is fine because the team is knowingly taking the risk.

I could see where there should be some type of provison for teams that do the right thing when faced by incidents by a previously clean player.

Double Barrel
05-07-2008, 11:57 AM
don't tell that to ignorant Houston sports fan....it's all about their Napoleonic complex-agenda towards Dallas...especially the Cowboys.

What about us educated Houston sports fans that just don't like the Cowboys becuase we've never lived in Dallas/Ft. Worth and are not a bunch of punkass bandwagonners?

Forget about us, did ya'? :shades:

The Titans are our rivals.....end of story. We have a little bit of a rivalry with Jacksonville and we are the Colt's prison *****, and that is pretty much it.

1-11 against the Colts
2-10 against the Titans

I do not see much of a rivalry when we have only beaten the Titans in one season out of six. I'd say we are Tennessee's "prison *****" as much as we are Indy's right now. We've been swept as many times by the Titans as we have by the Colts. What kind of lop-sided 'rivalry' is that? Do you honestly think people in Tennessee see the Texans as a rivalry? They see us as two W's on their schedule every year.

I'm pretty sure that a true rivalry requires competition, not just one-sided hate. We have yet to be good enough to earn real rivalries. The Jaguars are about as close as we have right now, but we have never been in a position to duke it out in the playoffs, so it is a weak rivalry at best. Bottom dwelling teams who have never sported a winning record, much less playoffs, don't have the right to claim rivalries.

Man.... Cowboy fans get their panties twisted pretty quick.


:fans:

Bandwagon is as bandwagon does. Oh wait, they've "been Cowboy fans since they were kids". O.K., so your parents were bandwaggoners, too. So what? :victory:

Some folks don't like the city of New York, and some of us just don't like Dallas. It is not a rivalry, or any kind of complex, I just don't root for teams that don't represent my city. Might as well be a New York Yankees fan as a Dallas Cowboy fan in my book. Same difference.

Corrosion
05-07-2008, 12:08 PM
Not to get back on topic, but:

Actually I think it is a horrible idea unless there is some accommodation on the cap if the team cuts a player for misconduct. Imagine player is drafted with no prior history of misconduct and gets $20 mil up front. Now he has a series of incidents. The team has no right to control the guys conduct outside of scheduled activities. Their only option is to cut him. Totally unfair to fine the team as if they have the right to control his off-duty conduct unless you say fine, no cap hit for letting miscreants go. No if you are in the Vick coming back into the league scenario it is fine because the team is knowingly taking the risk.



Good point . Its highly likely that teams write into their contracts terms of service which would give them the ability to terminate said contract if a player violates those terms . If the Player voilates the terms of the contract the team should be off the hook from salary cap ramifications in your scenario .

In the case of players like Pacman , Vick and others who have been suspended or cut by another team for behavioral issues ..... If the team takes the risk of giving them a second opportunity I think they should run the risk of eating the cap hit .

HoustonFrog
05-07-2008, 12:14 PM
What about us educated Houston sports fans that just don't like the Cowboys becuase we've never lived in Dallas/Ft. Worth and are not a bunch of punkass bandwagonners?

Forget about us, did ya'? :shades:



1-11 against the Colts
2-10 against the Titans

I do not see much of a rivalry when we have only beaten the Titans in one season out of six. I'd say we are Tennessee's "prison *****" as much as we are Indy's right now. We've been swept as many times by the Titans as we have by the Colts. What kind of lop-sided 'rivalry' is that? Do you honestly think people in Tennessee see the Texans as a rivalry? They see us as two W's on their schedule every year.

I'm pretty sure that a true rivalry requires competition, not just one-sided hate. We have yet to be good enough to earn real rivalries. The Jaguars are about as close as we have right now, but we have never been in a position to duke it out in the playoffs, so it is a weak rivalry at best. Bottom dwelling teams who have never sported a winning record, much less playoffs, don't have the right to claim rivalries.



Bandwagon is as bandwagon does. Oh wait, they've "been Cowboy fans since they were kids". O.K., so your parents were bandwaggoners, too. So what? :victory:

Some folks don't like the city of New York, and some of us just don't like Dallas. It is not a rivalry, or any kind of complex, I just don't root for teams that don't represent my city. Might as well be a New York Yankees fan as a Dallas Cowboy fan in my book. Same difference.

Man DB is harsh on us:)

Specnatz
05-07-2008, 12:16 PM
I'm so tired of the same old BS on the Cowboys...again. Jerry Jones took a very sound chance on a guy who might screw up and if he turns it around it works. Its not like he likes felons. He likes to give a guy another chance and if he is still a loser, like PacMan very well could be..,,then they are cut for no loss. Dallas has been far from the worst offender of having these guys over the past 5 years.

I do agree with what the commish is doing though....if you want more info on the league, here are some things I wrote before:



http://www.forbes.com/leadership/2007/08/13/sports-athletes-revenues-lead-cx_mw_0813nfl.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/nfl/longterm/2006/nfl_chart_12162006.html

don't tell that to ignorant Houston sports fan....it's all about their Napoleonic complex-agenda towards Dallas...especially the Cowboys.

some of these yayhoos actually think that the Cowboys are the Texans rival. that is just priceless, a rivalry has to go both ways and the fans in Dallas could give a rat's ass about the Texans or their fans. They know what a real rivalry is and not some wannabe rivalry like typical Houston fan. Give me a break. The Titans are our rivals.....end of story. We have a little bit of a rivalry with Jacksonville and we are the Colt's prison *****, and that is pretty much it. Rivals don't meet every 4 years......no matter how many time Houston Fan says 'Cowboys Suck' or something really intelligent and par for the course like that.

We are not ignorant, we understand that Jerry would sign satan, hitler and Osam Bin Ladan if he thought it would help him win. He does not care about character and he sure does not give a rats ass about being this savior of souls, it is all about not being the joke of the league when getting bounced in the first round. Look at the players Dallas has signed as of late, Qubert, tank johnson and team obliterator. It is not about redemtion.

SH I am not sure where you are pulling this rivalry crap out of but you can put it back. I have read all the comments and not one time did anyone mention rivalry, they mentioned hating dallas and dallas is filled with thugs and scum bags. So you can get off that high horse of yours, because it is a personal belief when those of us say the cowgirls suck. Oh and just you know the cowboy suck more than any yankee team ever could.

Yes frog it has been 10+ years since dallas had all the thugs and it has been that long since they have been relivant in the super bowl picture.

Texan_Bill
05-07-2008, 12:25 PM
don't tell that to ignorant Houston sports fan....it's all about their Napoleonic complex-agenda towards Dallas...especially the Cowboys.

some of these yayhoos actually think that the Cowboys are the Texans rival. that is just priceless, a rivalry has to go both ways and the fans in Dallas could give a rat's ass about the Texans or their fans. They know what a real rivalry is and not some wannabe rivalry like typical Houston fan. Give me a break. The Titans are our rivals.....end of story. We have a little bit of a rivalry with Jacksonville and we are the Colt's prison *****, and that is pretty much it. Rivals don't meet every 4 years......no matter how many time Houston Fan says 'Cowboys Suck' or something really intelligent and par for the course like that.

I thought we had a lengthy conversation about this a few months back? You seemed like you had finally understood what was up... I guess not.

What about us educated Houston sports fans that just don't like the Cowboys becuase we've never lived in Dallas/Ft. Worth and are not a bunch of punkass bandwagonners?

Forget about us, did ya'? :shades:



1-11 against the Colts
2-10 against the Titans

I do not see much of a rivalry when we have only beaten the Titans in one season out of six. I'd say we are Tennessee's "prison *****" as much as we are Indy's right now. We've been swept as many times by the Titans as we have by the Colts. What kind of lop-sided 'rivalry' is that? Do you honestly think people in Tennessee see the Texans as a rivalry? They see us as two W's on their schedule every year.

I'm pretty sure that a true rivalry requires competition, not just one-sided hate. We have yet to be good enough to earn real rivalries. The Jaguars are about as close as we have right now, but we have never been in a position to duke it out in the playoffs, so it is a weak rivalry at best. Bottom dwelling teams who have never sported a winning record, much less playoffs, don't have the right to claim rivalries.

Bandwagon is as bandwagon does. Oh wait, they've "been Cowboy fans since they were kids". O.K., so your parents were bandwaggoners, too. So what? :victory:

Some folks don't like the city of New York, and some of us just don't like Dallas. It is not a rivalry, or any kind of complex, I just don't root for teams that don't represent my city. Might as well be a New York Yankees fan as a Dallas Cowboy fan in my book. Same difference.

QFT!!!

Man DB is harsh on us:)

It's only because DB cares.... :ok:

HoustonFrog
05-07-2008, 12:31 PM
We are not ignorant, we understand that Jerry would sign satan, hitler and Osam Bin Ladan if he thought it would help him win. He does not care about character and he sure does not give a rats ass about being this savior of souls, it is all about not being the joke of the league when getting bounced in the first round. Look at the players Dallas has signed as of late, Qubert, tank johnson and team obliterator. It is not about redemtion.

SH I am not sure where you are pulling this rivalry crap out of but you can put it back. I have read all the comments and not one time did anyone mention rivalry, they mentioned hating dallas and dallas is filled with thugs and scum bags. So you can get off that high horse of yours, because it is a personal belief when those of us say the cowgirls suck. Oh and just you know the cowboy suck more than any yankee team ever could.

Yes frog it has been 10+ years since dallas had all the thugs and it has been that long since they have been relivant in the super bowl picture.

They have been relevant, they just haven't done anything in the playoffs. I'm not going to get on here and whine to you guys. I see the crap daily but SH had some good points. While I don't think there is P envy with every fan around here...just like all Cowboys fans aren't bandwagoners or a-holes...I do think there are many who hate just to do it. It definitely doesn't go both ways. Of course there were none of these threads when the "classy" Pats signed Moss....ahem. I just think these name calling rituals go both ways and there is truth is some of it but not alot.

WWJD
05-07-2008, 12:31 PM
What about us educated Houston sports fans that just don't like the Cowboys becuase we've never lived in Dallas/Ft. Worth and are not a bunch of punkass bandwagonners?

Forget about us, did ya'? :shades:



1-11 against the Colts
2-10 against the Titans

I do not see much of a rivalry when we have only beaten the Titans in one season out of six. I'd say we are Tennessee's "prison *****" as much as we are Indy's right now. We've been swept as many times by the Titans as we have by the Colts. What kind of lop-sided 'rivalry' is that? Do you honestly think people in Tennessee see the Texans as a rivalry? They see us as two W's on their schedule every year.

I'm pretty sure that a true rivalry requires competition, not just one-sided hate. We have yet to be good enough to earn real rivalries. The Jaguars are about as close as we have right now, but we have never been in a position to duke it out in the playoffs, so it is a weak rivalry at best. Bottom dwelling teams who have never sported a winning record, much less playoffs, don't have the right to claim rivalries.



Bandwagon is as bandwagon does. Oh wait, they've "been Cowboy fans since they were kids". O.K., so your parents were bandwaggoners, too. So what? :victory:

Some folks don't like the city of New York, and some of us just don't like Dallas. It is not a rivalry, or any kind of complex, I just don't root for teams that don't represent my city. Might as well be a New York Yankees fan as a Dallas Cowboy fan in my book. Same difference.

He likes some of us....:)

hobie
05-07-2008, 12:36 PM
He likes some of us....:)

Don't be fooled into thinking that..DB likes nobody !! And if you crossdress, he feels like you are picking on his way of life !! If you ever see him, just nod your head and continue to go about your business, you'll be glad you did !

Texan_Bill
05-07-2008, 12:36 PM
Some folks don't like the city of New York, and some of us just don't like Dallas. It is not a rivalry, or any kind of complex, I just don't root for teams that don't represent my city. Might as well be a St. Louis Cardinals fan as a Dallas Cowboy fan in my book. Same difference.

I had to fix one thing for you DB..... :pirate:

WWJD
05-07-2008, 12:39 PM
Don't be fooled into thinking that..DB likes nobody !! And if you crossdress, he feels like you are picking on his way of life !! If you ever see him, just nod your head and continue to go about your business, you'll be glad you did !

Ha!:spit:

Specnatz
05-07-2008, 12:47 PM
They have been relevant, they just haven't done anything in the playoffs. I'm not going to get on here and whine to you guys. I see the crap daily but SH had some good points. While I don't think there is P envy with every fan around here...just like all Cowboys fans aren't bandwagoners or a-holes...I do think there are many who hate just to do it. It definitely doesn't go both ways. Of course there were none of these threads when the "classy" Pats signed Moss....ahem. I just think these name calling rituals go both ways and there is truth is some of it but not alot.

Actually from having lived in dullas, yes it goes both ways. I never hated dullas until I had to live there and dealt with people who were rude, obnoxious and just down right shitty because I was from Houston. Frog I would suggest going to a bar wearing a Texans jersey next year during an away game and stay there when crybabys come in and see how they react to you and talk to you and they bring up the 5 rings, of course they can't handle beind told after that about all the playoff wins they have or the fact they have as many as the Texans during the same stretch or the history of there first few years in the league (but they do not want to talk about that history). Then you come back and talk about why some of have a total dislike for anything to do with the crybabys.

To be relivant in the super bowl picture you have to at least get out of the first round, other wise your just a speed bump.

HoustonFrog
05-07-2008, 12:59 PM
Actually from having lived in dullas, yes it goes both ways. I never hated dullas until I had to live there and dealt with people who were rude, obnoxious and just down right shitty because I was from Houston. Frog I would suggest going to a bar wearing a Texans jersey next year during an away game and stay there when crybabys come in and see how they react to you and talk to you and they bring up the 5 rings, of course they can't handle beind told after that about all the playoff wins they have or the fact they have as many as the Texans during the same stretch or the history of there first few years in the league (but they do not want to talk about that history). Then you come back and talk about why some of have a total dislike for anything to do with the crybabys.

To be relivant in the super bowl picture you have to at least get out of the first round, other wise your just a speed bump.

I'll take the pass on the dare. Growing up in Ft. Worth I always just thought Texas football teams were all good. So there was no animosity from me towards anything Houston.

One bone of contention with DB though. My parent grew up in Baltimore and upstate NY. I'm the youngest of 5. They moved around but after being born in Baltimore they moved to Ft. Worth for good. I was 6 mos old. They loved Johnny U and the Colts and the old Pitt teams. Cowboy fans they were not. They actually started becoming fans post Landry when they had been there 20 years and started liking home teams. So I didn't get any bandwagon things from their bandwagon. Just woke up a Dallas fan as a kid...only one in the family at the time. At least I lived in the area and am not a guy from the Midwest who likes the Cowboys, the Yankees, the Bruins and the Lakers.

infantrycak
05-07-2008, 01:15 PM
Growing up in Ft. Worth I always just thought Texas football teams were all good. So there was no animosity from me towards anything Houston.

That was always my attitude and most of the folks I grew up with in Richardson (north Dallas suburb)--cheer for every Texas team unless they are playing your Texas team.

they bring up the 5 rings

Should be 6 except for one of the most bizarre officiating errors in NFL history.

HoustonFrog
05-07-2008, 01:25 PM
That was always my attitude and most of the folks I grew up with in Richardson (north Dallas suburb)--cheer for every Texas team unless they are playing your Texas team.


Should be 6 except for one of the most bizarre officiating errors in NFL history.

Exactly!I mean I was 6-8 when my bro was at UT and Earl was there and then he is on the Oilers. Why wouldn't I cheer for them too unless playing the Cowboys.

Double Barrel
05-07-2008, 01:29 PM
Man DB is harsh on us:)

He likes some of us....:)

I have no problem with the majority of Cowboy fans. Matter-of-fact, one of my best friends is a fan, as well as several beloved family members. I don't like obnoxious fans, regardless of the team (including the Texans). But because of their winning history, the Cowboys tend to have a few more of these than most teams, very much like the Yankees.

I just like to yank your chains, but I also willingly admit (and even defend, to a point) the fact that the Cowboys have scoreboard and a buttload of trophies.

I just don't like the city of Dallas. Arlington and Ft. Worth rocks, though! :headbang:

It's only because DB cares.... :ok:

I do give a rat's ass! :howdy: about yanking chains, of course!

Don't be fooled into thinking that..DB likes nobody !! And if you crossdress, he feels like you are picking on his way of life !! If you ever see him, just nod your head and continue to go about your business, you'll be glad you did !

Don't make me call your parole officer (again!). :bat:

One bone of contention with DB though. My parent grew up in Baltimore and upstate NY. I'm the youngest of 5. They moved around but after being born in Baltimore they moved to Ft. Worth for good. I was 6 mos old. They loved Johnny U and the Colts and the old Pitt teams. Cowboy fans they were not. They actually started becoming fans post Landry when they had been there 20 years and started liking home teams. So I didn't get any bandwagon things from their bandwagon. Just woke up a Dallas fan. At least I lived in the area and am not a guy from the Midwest who likes the Cowboys, the Yankees, the Bruins and the Lakers.

See, you qualify!

I like to pick on folks who have never lived in or near Dallas, but are self-proclaimed Cowboys fans. Why? I guess because I'm sarcastic that way, and find Seinfeldian humor in the whole thing. Many times, these are the most obnoxious of your fanbase, and they get extremely offended and agitated when teased about it.

I don't get upset when other fans talk trash about our cellar dwelling team, and obviously, I hate that our franchise is seen that way. But it's just a game a the end of the day, an entertainment medium, so picking on each other in good fun is just part of the deal.

Except for hobie. He can get pretty prone to emotional outbursts, especially if you point out that his dress doesn't match his high heels. Bring the tissue box if you want to go there with him. And definitely do NOT pull his finger. The man is a walking lethal weapon.

Goldensilence
05-07-2008, 01:30 PM
Most of the cowboy fans I've met here have been pretty amicable to be honest.

Far as Jerruh goes. I know he wants to win but his meddling has cost them past Jimmy Johnson's tenure.

I still think the time and energy spent on Dallas hating could be better used bashing Tenn or Jax.

HOU-TEX
05-07-2008, 01:45 PM
I'll take the pass on the dare. Growing up in Ft. Worth I always just thought Texas football teams were all good. So there was no animosity from me towards anything Houston.

One bone of contention with DB though. My parent grew up in Baltimore and upstate NY. I'm the youngest of 5. They moved around but after being born in Baltimore they moved to Ft. Worth for good. I was 6 mos old. They loved Johnny U and the Colts and the old Pitt teams. Cowboy fans they were not. They actually started becoming fans post Landry when they had been there 20 years and started liking home teams. So I didn't get any bandwagon things from their bandwagon. Just woke up a Dallas fan as a kid...only one in the family at the time. At least I lived in the area and am not a guy from the Midwest who likes the Cowboys, the Yankees, the Bruins and the Lakers.

You see, right there, it's his parents fault. They were fans of teams we native Houstonians dislike, so Frog had no choice but to choose a team like the Girls.

Just ribbin ya, Frog. :spit:

HoustonFrog
05-07-2008, 01:48 PM
You see, right there, it's his parents fault. They were fans of teams we native Houstonians dislike, so Frog had no choice but to choose a team like the Girls.

Just ribbin ya, Frog. :spit:

I hear ya!!But to be fair, as a kid, I was as peeved about the Renfro out of bounds call against Pitt as anyone. So we had a very common enemy during those years.

Without hearing any Mom jokes, and on another sport...my Mom did date HOF thrid baseman from the Orioles Brooks Robinson. So that was cool while she was there.

HOU-TEX
05-07-2008, 01:53 PM
I hear ya!!But to be fair, as a kid, I was as peeved about the Renfro out of bounds call against Pitt as anyone. So we had a very common enemy during those years.

Without hearing any Mom jokes, and on another sport...my Mom did date HOF thrid baseman from the Orioles Brooks Robinson. So that was cool while she was there.

That call was horrible, but I don't think I really got to the point of Steeler hatred. I did/do really, really dislike Rod Woodson. I can't stand that guy to this day. It pains me just to watch him on NFLN. :gun: