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Vinny
05-02-2008, 10:18 AM
The Bengals are a disgrace to the league. I mean seriously.....just a disgrace to the NFL.

Ahmad Brooks is the latest Bengal who thinks he can act above the law.

Brooks was ordered to appear June 6 in Boone District Court on a complaint filed this week by Destiny Rosich. Based on the complaint, prosecutors charged Brooks with fourth-degree assault, a misdemeanor that carries up to a year in prison.

Rosich's complaint said Brooks got into a loud disagreement with one of her neighbors in nearby Florence on April 9. When she tried to intervene, Brooks punched her in the left eye, temporarily knocking her unconscious, the complaint said. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/nfl/05/01/bc.fbn.bengals.brooks.ap/index.html

WWJD
05-02-2008, 10:21 AM
Awful.

Texan_Bill
05-02-2008, 10:21 AM
:dontknowa

WTF????

Texaninlild
05-02-2008, 10:33 AM
Let's move all the remaining bad eggs to Cinci and change the team name to Mean Machine. They can get Mike Vick on a work release program, Carson does not have any felonies.

Every year they can draft from the prison system..you might as well go to the source.

awtysst
05-02-2008, 10:33 AM
You know, the Bengals really are appropriately named. Striped Cats after all...

nunusguy
05-02-2008, 10:34 AM
The Cinci Bengals are a Bail-Bondsman Dream.

HOU-TEX
05-02-2008, 10:35 AM
I feel bad for Carson. He's surrounded by losers.:bat:

The1ApplePie
05-02-2008, 10:36 AM
Maybe he got surpised and in a moment of anger thought she was Chad Johnson

Specnatz
05-02-2008, 10:36 AM
OK the first thing that came to mind was ..."Mama said knock you out".

My question is why is he only being charged with a 4th degree assualt? Seriously an unprovoked punch to a woman and being the size he is he could have seriously hurt her.

Double Barrel
05-02-2008, 10:51 AM
Maybe he got surpised and in a moment of anger thought she was Chad Johnson

heh, I was going to say something similar. What a sad state of affairs for a team. Character issues can make or break teams, and fortunately, this has been a quality high on Mr. McNair's list as he's built our team.

D-ReK
05-02-2008, 12:42 PM
Wow. This is just way too cliche.

bah007
05-02-2008, 01:28 PM
Too bad he is a professional athlete, so he won't see the inside of a prison cell.

He will probably get probation.

Ahmad Brooks is scum.

Lucky
05-02-2008, 01:36 PM
If any franchise is worthy of the "Death Penalty", it's the Cincinnati Bengals. Think about it, Roger.

kastofsna
05-02-2008, 01:42 PM
so where's the news?

Second Honeymoon
05-02-2008, 01:52 PM
Man, this is just ridiculous. What is in the water at Camp Bengal?

drugs, guns, beating up women, DUI, and bar room brawls. I guess they still have homicide left.

right after the draft too. if anyone deserves to demand a trade its Carson Palmer. that place is a mess and its not gonna get any better.

this guy should be cut immediately to send a message. after all, they just drafted squeaky clean Keith Rivers so BFD.

Nawzer
05-02-2008, 03:13 PM
Well at least someone from the Bengals defense is knocking someone out!.....Ok that was bad. I hope this scum goes to prison for a long time.

Double Barrel
05-02-2008, 03:18 PM
Man, this is just ridiculous. What is in the water at Camp Bengal?

drugs, guns, beating up women, DUI, and bar room brawls. I guess they still have homicide left.

right after the draft too. if anyone deserves to demand a trade its Carson Palmer. that place is a mess and its not gonna get any better.

this guy should be cut immediately to send a message. after all, they just drafted squeaky clean Keith Rivers so BFD.

Why would you feel that way? I could've sworn that you wanted low character players in another thread to play dirty because you think that's the only way to win. Seems like the Bengals would be a perfect fit for your boy Haynesworth.

stingray
05-02-2008, 03:19 PM
I was listening to Pat Kirwin on Sirius NFL Radio and he stated that the problem with the Bengals is that they don't take any players for bad conduct off the board. Most of these players that the Bengals drafted had some problems in college. And most NFL teams will take many of these players off their draft board. Well, he stated that the Bengals will draft them in a later round even though they have all these question marks. They did it again this year. They don't learn.

gtexan02
05-02-2008, 04:12 PM
This is totally expected.
Ahmad Brooks was kicked out of UVa for similar violent crime incidents, and was put into the supplemental draft

The Bengals drafted him KNOWING that he had a history of this kind of offense

They should get the punnishment as wlel as Brooks

Ole Miss Texan
05-02-2008, 04:28 PM
This is totally expected.
Ahmad Brooks was kicked out of UVa for similar violent crime incidents, and was put into the supplemental draft

The Bengals drafted him KNOWING that he had a history of this kind of offense

They should get the punnishment as well as Brooks

I'm not too familiar with him/the situation(s) but I think you may be on to something. If you start making the teams more responsible for their players actions (on and off the field) we will probably start seeing less incidents from NFL players.

Think about it. Players will absolutely know that if they do something stupid that not only will they get in trouble but their organization will to. Teams are much more likely to cut/release or not sign players that do dumb off field stuff like this. Players will eventually realize that they need to stay out of trouble because they will get "fired" and that another team down the road is likely NOT to "hire" them for fear they will get in trouble when something happens again.

See how the leauge fined both Bilichek AND the Patriots for their actions. This is much different than a fight, failed drug test, etc. but maybe it's time to see something similar in the team and player both getting fined.

This also would make teams invest more time and commitment to the players as far as having programs or meetings, or something, that prevents them from being idiots. A team will invest $ in this to save themselves $ down the road.

Sometimes you have to hold 'higher ups' accountable when the perp is an animal, not an adult, insane, etc. I think fining teams will continue to get the message across of 'quit drafting and/or signing thugs, problem childs, or evildoers'.

Hervoyel
05-02-2008, 04:41 PM
Lets don't get too far away from people being responsible for their own actions. The last thing I want to see is every football team getting sued into oblivion because one of their "employees" did something on his own time.

If I go home, flip out, and beat up my wife does that mean she can sue the company I work for or that the company I work for should be punished? Of course that's crazy and it's crazy in this guys case too.

The answer to this is to enforce the laws we have which are perfectly good laws. Ahmad Brooks did this so Ahmad Brooks should get charged with a crime (and if 4th degree assault it what fits then that's what fits). He should be judged like any other person would be judged and in this case his history of violence should probably get him some jail time.

The woman involved should sue him for a pile of feel-better money. The Bengals should be deprived of his services while he pays his debt to society. Finally a criminal record and a pattern of repeated violent behavior should be grounds enough for this very "activist" Commissioner to ban him from professional football.

The punishment for the Bengals for drafting turds should be that they lose those talented turds to long or lifetime bans. Then they continue to suck and hopefully eventually learn something.

Ole Miss Texan
05-02-2008, 04:53 PM
Lets don't get too far away from people being responsible for their own actions. The last thing I want to see is every football team getting sued into oblivion because one of their "employees" did something on his own time.

If I go home, flip out, and beat up my wife does that mean she can sue the company I work for or that the company I work for should be punished? Of course that's crazy and it's crazy in this guys case too.

The answer to this is to enforce the laws we have which are perfectly good laws. Ahmad Brooks did this so Ahmad Brooks should get charged with a crime (and if 4th degree assault it what fits then that's what fits). He should be judged like any other person would be judged and in this case his history of violence should probably get him some jail time.

The woman involved should sue him for a pile of feel-better money. The Bengals should be deprived of his services while he pays his debt to society. Finally a criminal record and a pattern of repeated violent behavior should be grounds enough for this very "activist" Commissioner to ban him from professional football.

The punishment for the Bengals for drafting turds should be that they lose those talented turds to long or lifetime bans. Then they continue to suck and hopefully eventually learn something.

I generally agree with you. The only thing I 'somewhat' disagree with is about he company getting sued. For the most part i think people just need to be responsible for their actions and quit suing companies b/c they can win $ even if the company didn't do anything wrong.

However, I think the company should get in trouble if they knowingly hired someone of this sort of behavior and didn't do anything to mediate it, cause it not to happen, or put the public in harms way. Of course, this is really straying from the point, kind of. It's just a very fine line that I think Goodell needs to address and be careful of at the same time. There's no way teams should be accountable for 100% of their players actions, nor should they have to "watch over" these 'adults' 24/7. But there is a line... which may be hard to find, and there will always be circumstances that arise and the plan should be amended.

Lucky
05-02-2008, 06:05 PM
The punishment for the Bengals for drafting turds should be that they lose those talented turds to long or lifetime bans. Then they continue to suck and hopefully eventually learn something.
I think if a franchise continually brings in players of questionable character, they should receive some punishment on a league level. The Bengals had several incidents involving their players prior to drafting Brooks, who came into the league with baggage.

Just last week, the Bengals drafted a player with multiple DUIs (Jason Shirley). They just won't learn. Sure, other teams bring in players with questionable character. But no team has had the number of incidents as the Bengals. Their poor judgement causes a black mark on the entire league. I think they need to be taught a lesson regarding player selection, and the best way to do that would be to withhold some TV $money until they prove to be a responsible franchise.

Texaninlild
05-02-2008, 06:58 PM
Just in...

The State of Ohio has decided to retire the former jumpsuits worn by inmates, as seen here:
http://www.akrondesign.com/Masquerade/Men/Prisoner%20Jumprsuit.jpg


To go with a newer more updated version:
http://mall.ballparks.com/images/BENGALS_matt.jpg

Brando
05-02-2008, 07:06 PM
Just in...

The State of Ohio has decided to retire the former jumpsuits worn by inmates, as seen here:
http://www.akrondesign.com/Masquerade/Men/Prisoner%20Jumprsuit.jpg


To go with a newer more updated version:
http://mall.ballparks.com/images/BENGALS_matt.jpg


Well done!

TheRealJoker
05-02-2008, 07:17 PM
Goodell needs to step in and do something about that team since the coaches/front office are incompetent.

Blazing Arrow
05-02-2008, 07:23 PM
Makes you wonder what's in Palmers closet.

Hottoddie
05-03-2008, 02:51 AM
If I go home, flip out, and beat up my wife does that mean she can sue the company I work for or that the company I work for should be punished?

Well, given the current state of our judicial system, I'd say she might have a pretty good case. :D

It's time again for the annual "Stella Awards"! For those unfamiliar with these awards, they are named after 81-year-old Stella Liebeck who spilled hot coffee on herself and successfully sued the McDonald's in New Mexico where she purchased the coffee. You remember, she took the lid off the coffee and put it between her knees while she was driving. Who would ever think one could get burned doing that, right? That's right; these are awards for the most outlandish lawsuits and verdicts in the U.S. You know, the kinds of cases that make you scratch your head. So keep your head scratcher handy.Here are the Stella's for the past year:

7TH PLACE: Kathleen Robertson of Austin, Texas was awarded $80,000 by a jury of her peers after breaking her ankle tripping over a toddler who was running inside a furniture store. The store owners were understandably surprised by the verdict, considering the running toddler was her own son.

6TH PLACE: Carl Truman, 19, of Los Angeles, California won $74,000 plus medical expenses when his neighbor ran over his hand with a Honda Accord. Truman apparently didn't notice there was someone at the wheel of the car when he was trying to steal his neighbor's hubcaps.Go ahead, grab your head scratcher.

5TH PLACE: Terrence Dickson, of Bristol, Pennsylvania, was leaving a house he had just burglarized by way of the garage. Unfortunately for Dickson, the automatic garage door opener malfunctioned and he could not get the garage door to open. Worse, he couldn't re-enter the house because the door connecting the garage to the house locked when Dickson pulled it shut. Forced to sit for eight, count 'em, EIGHT, days on a case of Pepsi and a large bag of dry dog food, he sued the homeowner's insurance company claiming undue mental Anguish. Amazingly, the jury said the insurance company must pay Dickson $500,000 for his anguish. We should all have this kind of anguish.Keep scratching. There are more...

4TH PLACE: Jerry Williams, of Little Rock, Arkansas, garnered 4th Place in the Stella's when he was awarded $14,500 plus medical expenses after being bitten on the butt by his next door neighbor's beagle - even though the beagle was on a chain in its owner's fenced yard. Williams did not get as much as he asked for because the jury believed the beagle might have been provoked at the time of the butt bite because Williams had climbed over the fence into the yard and repeatedly shot the dog with a pellet gun.Grrrrr .. Scratch, scratch.

3RD PLACE: Third place goes to Amber Carson of Lancaster, Pennsylvania because a jury ordered a Philadelphia restaurant to pay her $113,500 after she slipped on a spilled soft drink and broke her tailbone. The reason the soft drink was on the floor: Ms. Carson had thrown it at her boyfriend 30 seconds earlier during an argument. Whatever happened to people being responsible for their own actions? Scratch, scratch, scratch. Hang in there; there are only two more Stellas to go...

2ND PLACE: Kara Walton, of Claymont, Delaware sued the owner of a night club in a nearby city because she fell from the bathroom window to the floor, knocking out her two front teeth. Even though Ms Walton was trying to sneak through the ladies room window to avoid paying the $3.50 cover charge, the jury said the night club had to pay her $12,000....oh, yeah, plus dental expenses. Go figure.

1ST PLACE: (May I have a fanfare played on 50 kazoos please)This year's runaway First Place Stella Award winner was Mrs. Merv Grazinski, of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, who purchased a new 32-foot Winnebago motor home. On her first trip home from an OU football game, having driven onto the freeway, she set the cruise control at 70 mph and calmly left the driver's seat to go to the back of the Winnebago to make herself a sandwich. Not surprisingly, the motor home left the freeway, crashed and overturned. Also not surprisingly, Mrs. Grazinski sued Winnebago for not putting in the owner's manual that she couldn't actually leave the driver's seat while the cruise control was set. The Oklahoma jury awarded her, are you sitting down, $1,750,000 PLUS a new motor home. Winnebago actually changed their manuals as a result of this suit, just in case Mrs. Grazinski has any relatives who might also buy a motor home.

Yes, these are old, but they still crack me up. How can I get one of these juries?

Specnatz
05-03-2008, 04:04 AM
Lets don't get too far away from people being responsible for their own actions. The last thing I want to see is every football team getting sued into oblivion because one of their "employees" did something on his own time.

The punishment for the Bengals for drafting turds should be that they lose those talented turds to long or lifetime bans. Then they continue to suck and hopefully eventually learn something.

I generally agree with you. The only thing I 'somewhat' disagree with is about he company getting sued. For the most part i think people just need to be responsible for their actions and quit suing companies b/c they can win $ even if the company didn't do anything wrong.

However, I think the company should get in trouble if they knowingly hired someone of this sort of behavior and didn't do anything to mediate it, cause it not to happen, or put the public in harms way. Of course, this is really straying from the point, kind of. It's just a very fine line that I think Goodell needs to address and be careful of at the same time. There's no way teams should be accountable for 100% of their players actions, nor should they have to "watch over" these 'adults' 24/7. But there is a line... which may be hard to find, and there will always be circumstances that arise and the plan should be amended.

I think if a franchise continually brings in players of questionable character, they should receive some punishment on a league level. The Bengals had several incidents involving their players prior to drafting Brooks, who came into the league with baggage.

Just last week, the Bengals drafted a player with multiple DUIs (Jason Shirley). They just won't learn. Sure, other teams bring in players with questionable character. But no team has had the number of incidents as the Bengals. Their poor judgement causes a black mark on the entire league. I think they need to be taught a lesson regarding player selection, and the best way to do that would be to withhold some TV $money until they prove to be a responsible franchise.


The thing is Goodell has already said he is not only to hold the player responsible for their actions but also hold the team responsible because if they continue to have bad character guys then there is something wrong with the management structure.

So I can see Goodell putting his down on Cinci.

infantrycak
05-03-2008, 07:47 AM
Well, given the current state of our judicial system, I'd say she might have a pretty good case. :D

It's time again for the annual "Stella Awards"! For those unfamiliar with these awards, they are named after 81-year-old Stella Liebeck who spilled hot coffee on herself and successfully sued the McDonald's in New Mexico where she purchased the coffee. You remember, she took the lid off the coffee and put it between her knees while she was driving. Who would ever think one could get burned doing that, right? That's right; these are awards for the most outlandish lawsuits and verdicts in the U.S. You know, the kinds of cases that make you scratch your head. So keep your head scratcher handy.Here are the Stella's for the past year:

7TH PLACE: Kathleen Robertson of Austin, Texas was awarded $80,000 by a jury of her peers after breaking her ankle tripping over a toddler who was running inside a furniture store. The store owners were understandably surprised by the verdict, considering the running toddler was her own son.

6TH PLACE: Carl Truman, 19, of Los Angeles, California won $74,000 plus medical expenses when his neighbor ran over his hand with a Honda Accord. Truman apparently didn't notice there was someone at the wheel of the car when he was trying to steal his neighbor's hubcaps.Go ahead, grab your head scratcher.

5TH PLACE: Terrence Dickson, of Bristol, Pennsylvania, was leaving a house he had just burglarized by way of the garage. Unfortunately for Dickson, the automatic garage door opener malfunctioned and he could not get the garage door to open. Worse, he couldn't re-enter the house because the door connecting the garage to the house locked when Dickson pulled it shut. Forced to sit for eight, count 'em, EIGHT, days on a case of Pepsi and a large bag of dry dog food, he sued the homeowner's insurance company claiming undue mental Anguish. Amazingly, the jury said the insurance company must pay Dickson $500,000 for his anguish. We should all have this kind of anguish.Keep scratching. There are more...

4TH PLACE: Jerry Williams, of Little Rock, Arkansas, garnered 4th Place in the Stella's when he was awarded $14,500 plus medical expenses after being bitten on the butt by his next door neighbor's beagle - even though the beagle was on a chain in its owner's fenced yard. Williams did not get as much as he asked for because the jury believed the beagle might have been provoked at the time of the butt bite because Williams had climbed over the fence into the yard and repeatedly shot the dog with a pellet gun.Grrrrr .. Scratch, scratch.

3RD PLACE: Third place goes to Amber Carson of Lancaster, Pennsylvania because a jury ordered a Philadelphia restaurant to pay her $113,500 after she slipped on a spilled soft drink and broke her tailbone. The reason the soft drink was on the floor: Ms. Carson had thrown it at her boyfriend 30 seconds earlier during an argument. Whatever happened to people being responsible for their own actions? Scratch, scratch, scratch. Hang in there; there are only two more Stellas to go...

2ND PLACE: Kara Walton, of Claymont, Delaware sued the owner of a night club in a nearby city because she fell from the bathroom window to the floor, knocking out her two front teeth. Even though Ms Walton was trying to sneak through the ladies room window to avoid paying the $3.50 cover charge, the jury said the night club had to pay her $12,000....oh, yeah, plus dental expenses. Go figure.

1ST PLACE: (May I have a fanfare played on 50 kazoos please)This year's runaway First Place Stella Award winner was Mrs. Merv Grazinski, of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, who purchased a new 32-foot Winnebago motor home. On her first trip home from an OU football game, having driven onto the freeway, she set the cruise control at 70 mph and calmly left the driver's seat to go to the back of the Winnebago to make herself a sandwich. Not surprisingly, the motor home left the freeway, crashed and overturned. Also not surprisingly, Mrs. Grazinski sued Winnebago for not putting in the owner's manual that she couldn't actually leave the driver's seat while the cruise control was set. The Oklahoma jury awarded her, are you sitting down, $1,750,000 PLUS a new motor home. Winnebago actually changed their manuals as a result of this suit, just in case Mrs. Grazinski has any relatives who might also buy a motor home.

Yes, these are old, but they still crack me up. How can I get one of these juries?

They aren't just old, they are fake or lies. For instance Liebeck wasn't driving, she was the passenger, and they weren't moving when the coffee spilled, they pulled to the side of the road and stopped. Most of the others are just made up BS. Not referring to you, but if people want to complain about something it should be based on the real facts not made up crap. If you have to embellish to make your point, maybe it isn't worth making.

Specnatz
05-03-2008, 08:49 AM
They aren't just old, they are fake or lies. For instance Liebeck wasn't driving, she was the passenger, and they weren't moving when the coffee spilled, they pulled to the side of the road and stopped. Most of the others are just made up BS. Not referring to you, but if people want to complain about something it should be based on the real facts not made up crap. If you have to embellish to make your point, maybe it isn't worth making.

Urban Legends.

gtexan02
05-03-2008, 09:50 AM
Ahmad Brooks' playing days at Virginia are now over.
Ahmad Brooks, considered among the best linebackers in the nation when healthy, will no longer be a part of the Virginia program, according to sources close to the situation.

The decision to release Brooks from the team was made after an off-field incident that recently took place, although sources refused to elaborate on the specifics.

The 6-foot-4, 249-pound rising senior had just decided last month to return to UVa for his final year of eligibility and not enter the NFL draft.

Sources said he will now submit an appeal to be included in the draft this April or look to be a part of the NFL's supplemental draft that takes place each summer.

Brooks had 207 tackles and 12 sacks in his first two seasons with the Cavaliers and as a sophomore was named a finalist for the Butkus Award, which goes to the nation's top linebacker.

This is the only info I could find. I remember when it happened, there were a lot of rumors going around. He ha dbeen in trouble for pot at least a few times before this s well, I seem to remember. They never really gave the details, but you don't kick your best linebacker off the team for nothing

Hooston Texan
05-03-2008, 02:40 PM
To this day, nobody knows precisely why Al Groh punted Ahmad Brooks from UVA. But it was bad enough that Groh had no qualms about dumping the most decorated recruit in UVA history even though he knew it meant he would be starting a walk-on in his place. Brooks had previous issues with the Weed, but there had not been any documentation of violent acts. But nobody really knows what the last straw was--it could have been pot or something else. Nonetheless, the mere fact that he was kicked off the team and forced into the supplemental draft was red flag enough.

As for the rationale behind Goodell's warnings to teams, it is, in part, to discourage teams from taking unfair advantage of the NFL's character- screening process. Some time ago, background checks were done by the individual teams, but the NFL recently started doing them and sending the results to all the league. Since that information is shared, everyone knows who has the proverbial "red flags". Those flagged players inevitably would be drafted lower than their talent would otherwise indicate. But teams like the Bengals could game the system by drafting such falling-stock players in rounds nobody else would touch them. I think Goodell's threat to such teams is an effort to at least discourage a team from repeatedly adopting this strategy like the Bengals obviously have.

Of course, losing a player to a legal issue is a pretty powerful deterrent to taking such a risk, but Goodell has shown that he has no qualms about punitive action. So the Bengals are on real thin ice. But what I'm waiting for is Tank Johnson or Pac-Man having a post-suspension imbroglio while with the Cowboys. If Goodell isn't wild about teams drafting problem guys, I can imagine the disdain he will have for teams that trade for them.

Hooston Texan
05-03-2008, 02:56 PM
This is the only info I could find. I remember when it happened, there were a lot of rumors going around. He ha dbeen in trouble for pot at least a few times before this s well, I seem to remember. They never really gave the details, but you don't kick your best linebacker off the team for nothing

[Sorry if this post is too UVA specific.] Brooks' ouster came a few weeks after Groh had already run some guys for pot--these were the players who ended up at Liberty. According to the rumors I heard, Brooks' last straw was yet another encounter with the Demon Weed (though, again, that is just a rumor--it could have been something more serious than that, but nobody will say). Groh was concerned that Brooks' past, along with the Liberty guys, would give his team the reputation of being a bunch of dope-smoking underachievers. So he had no qualms about taking the short-term hit of running Brooks. Plus, Brooks was always skating the edge of being declared academically ineligible.

I was never impressed with anything about Brooks besides his raw physical ability. The dude is every bit the athletic freak that Mario is, but he had no clue how to play his position (or do much else on the field). When he played, UVA's defense was never anything better than mediocre, and often far worse than that. It was no accident that when he was replaced by a walk-on, the Hoo defense improved dramatically.

But the bottom line is shame on Cincinnati for drafting him after they already had ample warning of his failings.

281
05-03-2008, 04:20 PM
According to the rumors I heard, Brooks' last straw was yet another encounter with the Demon Weed (though, again, that is just a rumor--it could have been something more serious than that, but nobody will say). Groh was concerned that Brooks' past, along with the Liberty guys, would give his team the reputation of being a bunch of dope-smoking underachievers.

DEVIL WEED IS RIGHT!!! for those of you who don't believe... WATCH "REEFER MADNESS"!

Hottoddie
05-03-2008, 05:11 PM
They aren't just old, they are fake or lies. For instance Liebeck wasn't driving, she was the passenger, and they weren't moving when the coffee spilled, they pulled to the side of the road and stopped. Most of the others are just made up BS. Not referring to you, but if people want to complain about something it should be based on the real facts not made up crap. If you have to embellish to make your point, maybe it isn't worth making.

Well, I guess that's what I get for passing on a humorous email without researching it first. :embarrass :shrug: