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Htownsportsfan
04-26-2008, 09:17 PM
Poor draft value management on Smith, this guy could have been taken lower as he is not a fit for most NFL offenses.

We know he can coach, but I don't know how many O-lineman Gibbs has drafted?

I guess we'll never know, but I hate the idea of Arkansas Jerry & the Arlington County Criminals stepping in ahead of us on CB Jenkins.

We'll see if Brown works out....I'm fairly optimistic at this point he won't bust. Also, didn't McClain highlight Brown a while back as the pick?


An aside: getting tired of hearing Charlie Casserly taking full credit for Mario when we know Mr. McNair took Bush's name off the table (character) and Kubiak nixed Vince.

I have to disagee, he was not picked to play in MOST nfl offenses he was targeted for the Zone Scheme which he is thought to be a good fit for. He was the next highest rated tackle on ther board when we drafted, and considering we have no second round pick there was not chance to wait for a later oppurtunity. The way teams were trading today it was possible to have someone jump up and grab him while we were screwing around with a second trade.

J-Russ
04-26-2008, 09:17 PM
Kubiak drafts well in the 3rd round. Wait for it....

Kevin Smith and Charles Godfrey *crosses fingers*

Hagar
04-26-2008, 09:21 PM
I'm behind Smith and Kubes. Both were the guys I wanted from the begining, but that doesn't mean I don't question some of thier decisions. Your right, these guys may know more then every person on this board, but they don't know more then every person out there.

Rivals had him ranked as the 12 best OT. SI had him graded out as a 3.78 out of 6 points, which means First Year Contributer. Jeff Otah (4.12), Rashad Mendenhall (4.2) and Sam Baker (3.8) could all have been had at 17 and were considered to be Quality Prospects. Scout.com ranked Duane as the 16th best tackle with 2 out of 5 stars. And, FootballsFutures.com ranks him as the 10th best tackle.

With all the internet research I've done on this guy tonight, nobody had this guy as a first round talent. So basically, what did we end up with from today. Three 3rd round draft pick in the 2008 draft instead of a 1st and a 3rd round pick.

Kind of like the 2 minute offense last year, Kubes buckled under pressure.

We'll need to do better then this if we are going to contend in this league. Right now we did nothing to change our 8-8 record.

swtbound07
04-26-2008, 09:23 PM
Allright, allright.

I was pissed off at first. Overreacted. Thought they reached. But after I watched the interviews, I really believe this was their guy. And if so, and they got extra picks, Awesome. They've done good in the past, and i overreacted, and I'm now behind it.

Duane, welcome to Houston...I wish you the best.

In kubiak and smith we trust.

Again, I was pissed, and overreacted. I got over it.

GP
04-26-2008, 09:24 PM
Kevin Smith and Charles Godfrey *crosses fingers*

And I cannot believe Early Doucet is still available.

I'd take Choice or Smith. Don't know much about Godfrey.

I don't think Kevin Smith will be there for us.

ObsiWan
04-26-2008, 09:26 PM
I hope this was not already posted but I have read so much my damn eyes are starting to cross!

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2008/draft/players/5535.html

BIOGRAPHY: Former tight end who moved to offensive tackle as a sophomore then started the next three seasons. All-Conference selection after his junior and senior campaigns. Used on both the left and right side.

POSITIVES: Athletic college tackle who's at his best in confined quarters. Blocks with a wide base, shows good knee-bend, and effective with his hands. Jolts opponents with a violent hand-punch, stays square, and seals the edge with good body positioning. Gets out to the second level and annihilates linebackers. Patient in pass protection, can adjust to opponents, and keeps his feet moving. Does enough to ride defenders from their angle of attack.

NEGATIVES: Lacks top lateral blocking range. At times lazy with his hands.

ANALYSIS: Brown is a well-built blocker who has displayed a variety of skills the past three years. He offers potential in a zone blocking scheme, yet he could also thrive in a power-running offense when he physically matures.

A second assessment that says to me, this is Gibbs' type of tackle. I doubt he replaces Salaam from day one, in his rookie year, but this could well be the anchor of our line for years to come.

Sorry we didn't pick the hyped-up RB for you guys easily distracted by shiny things. But I'm thinking we've got our line of the future right now.

By the end of the season don't be surprised to see this lineup....
Brown, Frye, Chris Myers, Big Nasty, Winston.

Htownsportsfan
04-26-2008, 09:27 PM
Allright, allright.

I was pissed off at first. Overreacted. Thought they reached. But after I watched the interviews, I really believe this was their guy. And if so, and they got extra picks, Awesome. They've done good in the past, and i overreacted, and I'm now behind it.

Duane, welcome to Houston...I wish you the best.

In kubiak and smith we trust.

Again, I was pissed, and overreacted. I got over it.

Its all good thats why the draft has turned into a fan event! Just remember most everyone on here loves the Texans like you do and just because we have different opinions does not me we arent all after the same thing, a Texans Superbowl win. Heres hoping tomorrow gives us all picks we like!

GP
04-26-2008, 09:27 PM
Allright, allright.

I was pissed off at first. Overreacted. Thought they reached. But after I watched the interviews, I really believe this was their guy. And if so, and they got extra picks, Awesome. They've done good in the past, and i overreacted, and I'm now behind it.

Duane, welcome to Houston...I wish you the best.

In kubiak and smith we trust.

Again, I was pissed, and overreacted. I got over it.

Shoot, you have the right to get angry about it--I didn't think poorly of you for being so vocal about your displeasure.

IMO, if we went Mendenhall this year...we'd be going OL in 1st round of next year's draft. It's a deal of saying "which do we need FIRST?" and I guess Kubiak is determined to give Gibbs what he wants. Apparently, Gibbs got insode Kubiak's head and said to him "Uh, why don't we stop the madness on the defensive picks and let's start building an oline here, ok?" And Kubiak nodded.

Hopefully it's what it's deemed to be. Hopefully.

Htownsportsfan
04-26-2008, 09:30 PM
A second assessment that says to me, this is Gibbs' type of tackle. I doubt he replaces Salaam from day one, in his rookie year, but this could well be the anchor of our line for years to come.

Sorry we didn't pick the hyped-up RB for you guys easily distracted by shiny things. But I'm thinking we've got our line of the future right now.

By the end of the season don't be surprised to see this lineup....
Brown, Frye, Chris Myers, Big Nasty, Winston.

From ESPN:

http://.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/round?round=1&draftyear=2008

How he fits: Brown is better than either Ephraim Salaam or Jordan Black at left tackle. This was a need for them because the Texans struggled to produce in the running game last year. The Texans are set at right tackle with Eric Winston and improved the interior with the trade for Chris Myers. The Texans play in a tough division and in order for this team to get better, they need to bolster the offensive line and Brown does that.

kcdoubleeagle
04-26-2008, 09:31 PM
Build our offensive and defensive lines first. I think this will be a great pick. A solid O-Line can make most NFL running backs look great......a poor O-Line will make that same running back look terrible ( Edgerrin James ). Forget Mendenhall and the other running backs. YOU CANNOT WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP WITHOUT DOMINANCE IN THE TRENCHES!!

J-Russ
04-26-2008, 09:31 PM
With all the internet research I've done on this guy tonight, nobody had this guy as a first round talent. So basically, what did we end up with from today. Three 3rd round draft pick in the 2008 draft instead of a 1st and a 3rd round pick.

My surprise pick of round one. The Niners have a ton of needs but they are going to be looking for an offensive lineman very early and I've been told that Brown is a strong possibility for them, either here or at #39. If they don't grab him in round one I don't think he'd make it to their next pick and they probably realize that too, which is why they pull the trigger here. A former tight end, Brown is a fantastic athlete with experience at both left and right tackle and in the last month before the draft he has been flying up draft boards all around the league. I am out on a limb with this one...

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft2.html

Scott from NFLDC has him going to #29 slot in his final mock. I consider NFLDC the best draft site and trust Scott judgements.

I admit, from reading Duane Brown scouting reports, that I wouldn't consider him a 1st round pick. I mean they said he was similar to Brandon Frye, a 5th round pick, so I am sort of worry that he won't pan out. But so far Smith/Kubiak haven't done anything to make me question their decisions.

Playoffs
04-26-2008, 09:42 PM
...he was not picked to play in MOST nfl offenses he was targeted for the Zone Scheme....considering we have no second round pick...
You miss the point. The fact that he's a zone guy is the reason there are fewer teams interested in him. Less teams interested in him means lower draft value, which means he falls past most spots. With Denver taking an LT first round, that's one more team out of the running. Similar to Otah not being a zone scheme player, but there are more teams that can plug him into their schemes.

The second round pick comes with trading down and picking up another 4th or 3rd round pick. Drop down another 10/12 picks, add a prospect.

Not a huge deal, but there was value there that was not realized.

Ole Miss Texan
04-26-2008, 09:47 PM
Found Kubiak, Smith, and McNair's thoughts VERY intersting.

Recap of what went on:
McNair- Brown is very athletic and a solid HEALTHY player, not all the LT's they looked at were this healthy. (hints of Williams?)

Kubiak/Smith- Gibbs was nonstop talking/gooing over Brown for the past 6 weeks, perfect player for us, they WERE targeting HIM. discussions throughout the day with Baltimore and called them leading up to our #18 (I assume right after Albert was taken). Sounds like Kubiak/Gibbs really wanted Brown but Smith was pushing the trade down for him. Traded down, everybody nervous... Brown was available for us and Kubiak was extatic. We got a call with 1 minute left on the clock (at #26) and Kubiak said "don't answer that phone", Smith got an offer to move down some more and he respectfully declined the offer.
I'm really excited.

J-Russ
04-26-2008, 09:48 PM
You miss the point. The fact that he's a zone guy is the reason there are fewer teams interested in him. Less teams interested in him means lower draft value, which means he falls past most spots. With Denver taking an LT first round, that's one more team out of the running. Similar to Otah not being a zone scheme player, but there are more teams that can plug him into their schemes.

The second round pick comes with trading down and picking up another 4th or 3rd round pick. Drop down another 10/12 picks, add a prospect.

Not a huge deal, but there was value there that was not realized.

A former tight end, Brown is a fantastic athlete with experience at both left and right tackle and in the last month before the draft he has been flying up draft boards all around the league. I am out on a limb with this one...

from the post above yours.

He was already consider a 2nd round prospect that was moving up the draft boards, and was actually in some mock draft this past week going in the late 20s.

btw, if this draft wasn't so stocked with LT, where do you think DB76 would be ranked? Let's say if Williams, Otah, and Cherilus wasn't in the draft. I think he might of been consensus 1st round, with people having him go in the top 25.

J-Russ
04-26-2008, 09:51 PM
Found Kubiak, Smith, and McNair's thoughts VERY intersting.

Recap of what went on:
McNair- Brown is very athletic and a solid HEALTHY player, not all the LT's they looked at were this healthy. (hints of Williams?)

Kubiak/Smith- Gibbs was nonstop talking/gooing over Brown for the past 6 weeks, perfect player for us, they WERE targeting HIM. discussions throughout the day with Baltimore and called them leading up to our #18 (I assume right after Albert was taken). Sounds like Kubiak/Gibbs really wanted Brown but Smith was pushing the trade down for him. Traded down, everybody nervous... Brown was available for us and Kubiak was extatic. We got a call with 1 minute left on the clock (at #26) and Kubiak said "don't answer that phone", Smith got an offer to move down some more and he respectfully declined the offer.
I'm really excited.
Is there a video or audio of this online?

Ole Miss Texan
04-26-2008, 09:54 PM
He was already consider a 2nd round prospect that was moving up the draft boards, and was actually in some mock draft this past week going in the late 20s.

McClain's final mock had Pittsburgh taking Duane Brown at #23. Very insightful of Mr. McClain...


Also, regarding Arm Lengths...

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48873

Top Ten Offensive Tackles ranked by arm length:

T-1.Godser Cherilus 35"

T-1.Carl Nicks 35"

T-3.Jeff Otah 34 5/8"

T-3.Anthony Collins 34"

5. Branden Albert 33 5/8"

6. Duane Brown 33 2/8"

T-7.Ryan Clady 33 1/8"

T-7.Sam Baker 33 1/8"

T-9.Chris Williams 32 7/8"

T-9.Jake Long 32 7/8"



For Comparison: (Thanks to Hoth-Boy, Lucky)

1. Alex Barron 37 6/8"

2. D'Brickashaw Ferguson 35 4/8"

3. Marcus McNeill 35 3/8"

4. Levi Brown 34 3/8"

5. Joe Thomas 32 4/8" and 33 2/8"

6. Robert Gallery 31"

Hervoyel
04-26-2008, 09:54 PM
Just some points I'd like to make about this pick. Some of them may have been made already in this thread but I'd like to put them together and put my name on them regardless. This is what I think.

I didn't like the pick and I'm still not sure I "believe" just yet. Despite the fact that entirely different brain trusts ran the two drafts I had a distinct "Travis Johnson Feeling" with this pick. That time I wanted Derrick Johnson, saw him fall to us, and then saw the Texans trade down and lose him. This time I wanted Rashard Mendenhall and again saw him fall to us before the Texans traded down and saw him picked three selections before our new spot.

The situations are different but I still have bad feelings about that draft so I'm trying not to let that affect my judgement here.

I've read a lot about how this guy gave up 8.5 sacks last season and I understand how it's hard to look at that and not think it was significant. I think it isn't as big a deal as it's being made out to be however. They allowed 54 sacks total last year and that means that apart from the sacks Brown allowed this group managed to get their QB sacked 45.5 times. They were not a good unit. That much is obvious.

Brown was starting at LT for the first time last season. He was brought over from the right side where he'd played the two previous seasons. He's only been an OT for three years total.

First time starters at LT give up sacks. I'm glad he got his first experience there in college and not protecting the Texans QB like Charles Spencer did. Remember Spencer was a LG who was undergoing the transition to LT when he was injured. Arguably converting Spencer to LT was a more ambitious project than the reach for Brown will be. I expect him to give up some more sacks when he gets to Houston (if he's our starting LT). Chester Pitts was a LT in college and promptly gave up (I believe) something along the lines of 10-11 sacks in 2002. Seth Wand gave up a few more than Chester in his first year in the NFL.

I think that Brown is going to have to adjust to the speed of the NFL (like everybody) and I think that we'll go into the season with Salaam starting. Brown won't start until the coaches think he's ready to start.

I see people commenting on his strength and I think the Texans will have him in the weight room on a regular basis. Nobody comes to Houston and stays weak. I think this will be taken care of. I see comments about his work ethic and I think that Alex Gibbs is well known as a tough coach who gets results. I somehow don't think that Mr. Brown is going to have much luck not doing the work here while he's reporting to Gibbs.

Finally I am thinking that I don't really even believe that I can be sure he'll play LT for us. Until the Texans get to camp and see what they have in Charles Spencer I don't think we can just assume that he's the starting LT. If Spencer comes back and can do the work then he might very well have something to say about who gets that starting LT salary. I'm not ready to rule anything out yet and I mean that. I would not be stunned to see Eric Winston back over on the left side if he turns out to be our best option there. I wouldn't be shocked if Chester Pitts gets another look either.

I'm not saying that I think any of this will happen necessarily. I'm just saying that we might have just seen our new "nasty" LG drafted and not known it. We just won't know until they get to camp and start working.

I'm in the "give them the benefit of the doubt" camp on this right now. That could change. I'm not going to get down on this draft until we see what happens tomorrow. If Mendenhall does some kind of Adrian Peterson impersonation next year and runs all over everyone (including us in week 1) on his way to a rookie of the year award then this is going to be a tough one to swallow.

Ole Miss Texan
04-26-2008, 09:54 PM
Is there a video or audio of this online?

Let me track it down... and I'll post it here.

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv/

Main website -> Texans TV -> "Texans' Brass Addresses Pick"

great watch

Maddict5
04-26-2008, 09:58 PM
Is there a video or audio of this online?

http://houstontexans.com/tv/index.asp?mm_file_id=2251

Playoffs
04-26-2008, 10:01 PM
Brown's NFL Scouting Combine workout up on Texans TV now:

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv/index.asp?mm_file_id=2248

J-Russ
04-26-2008, 10:02 PM
Thanks guys, I'll watch it after the rockets game.

Htownsportsfan
04-26-2008, 10:02 PM
I like this one better:

Kiper says not a reach and Mooch says its a Gibbs pick so get out of his way!


http://houstontexans.com/tv/index.asp?mm_file_id=2248&play_clip=Y

Maddict5
04-26-2008, 10:03 PM
Finally I am thinking that I don't really even believe that I can be sure he'll play LT for us. Until the Texans get to camp and see what they have in Charles Spencer I don't think we can just assume that he's the starting LT. If Spencer comes back and can do the work then he might very well have something to say about who gets that starting LT salary. I'm not ready to rule anything out yet and I mean that. I would not be stunned to see Eric Winston back over on the left side if he turns out to be our best option there. I wouldn't be shocked if Chester Pitts gets another look either.

I'm not saying that I think any of this will happen necessarily. I'm just saying that we might have just seen our new "nasty" LG drafted and not known it. We just won't know until they get to camp and start working.

I'm in the "give them the benefit of the doubt" camp on this right now. That could change. I'm not going to get down on this draft until we see what happens tomorrow. If Mendenhall does some kind of Adrian Peterson impersonation next year and runs all over everyone (including us in week 1) on his way to a rookie of the year award then this is going to be a tough one to swallow.


hes our LT believe it.. 100% garunteed

TEXANRED
04-26-2008, 10:17 PM
I didn't like the pick and I'm still not sure I "believe" just yet. Despite the fact that entirely different brain trusts ran the two drafts I had a distinct "Travis Johnson Feeling" with this pick. That time I wanted Derrick Johnson, saw him fall to us, and then saw the Texans trade down and lose him. This time I wanted Rashard Mendenhall and again saw him fall to us before the Texans traded down and saw him picked three selections before our new spot.



Why are you inside my head?

eriadoc
04-26-2008, 10:19 PM
I am happy with the pick, actually. I have long wanted a LT, and if this is who Gibbs wanted, by God, give the man what he wants. I also don't care if it's considered a reach. I was hoping they would take Sam Baker when they traded back, which many would have called a reach. Well, Baker went ahead of Brown. So those aspects don't bother me about it.

The only part that really bothers me about it is I felt like they could have picked up a second rounder, even if it meant swapping later round picks in the process.

But hey, we got a first round left tackle. Sign me up.

281
04-26-2008, 10:20 PM
Allright, allright.

I was pissed off at first. Overreacted. Thought they reached. But after I watched the interviews, I really believe this was their guy. And if so, and they got extra picks, Awesome. They've done good in the past, and i overreacted, and I'm now behind it.

Duane, welcome to Houston...I wish you the best.

In kubiak and smith we trust.

Again, I was pissed, and overreacted. I got over it.

way to man up... i don't mind you showing displeasure, but you did overreact. a real man owns up to his shit though. much respect.

281
04-26-2008, 10:22 PM
Just some points I'd like to make about this pick. Some of them may have been made already in this thread but I'd like to put them together and put my name on them regardless. This is what I think.

I didn't like the pick and I'm still not sure I "believe" just yet. Despite the fact that entirely different brain trusts ran the two drafts I had a distinct "Travis Johnson Feeling" with this pick. That time I wanted Derrick Johnson, saw him fall to us, and then saw the Texans trade down and lose him. This time I wanted Rashard Mendenhall and again saw him fall to us before the Texans traded down and saw him picked three selections before our new spot.

The situations are different but I still have bad feelings about that draft so I'm trying not to let that affect my judgement here.

I've read a lot about how this guy gave up 8.5 sacks last season and I understand how it's hard to look at that and not think it was significant. I think it isn't as big a deal as it's being made out to be however. They allowed 54 sacks total last year and that means that apart from the sacks Brown allowed this group managed to get their QB sacked 45.5 times. They were not a good unit. That much is obvious.

Brown was starting at LT for the first time last season. He was brought over from the right side where he'd played the two previous seasons. He's only been an OT for three years total.

First time starters at LT give up sacks. I'm glad he got his first experience there in college and not protecting the Texans QB like Charles Spencer did. Remember Spencer was a LG who was undergoing the transition to LT when he was injured. Arguably converting Spencer to LT was a more ambitious project than the reach for Brown will be. I expect him to give up some more sacks when he gets to Houston (if he's our starting LT). Chester Pitts was a LT in college and promptly gave up (I believe) something along the lines of 10-11 sacks in 2002. Seth Wand gave up a few more than Chester in his first year in the NFL.

I think that Brown is going to have to adjust to the speed of the NFL (like everybody) and I think that we'll go into the season with Salaam starting. Brown won't start until the coaches think he's ready to start.

I see people commenting on his strength and I think the Texans will have him in the weight room on a regular basis. Nobody comes to Houston and stays weak. I think this will be taken care of. I see comments about his work ethic and I think that Alex Gibbs is well known as a tough coach who gets results. I somehow don't think that Mr. Brown is going to have much luck not doing the work here while he's reporting to Gibbs.

Finally I am thinking that I don't really even believe that I can be sure he'll play LT for us. Until the Texans get to camp and see what they have in Charles Spencer I don't think we can just assume that he's the starting LT. If Spencer comes back and can do the work then he might very well have something to say about who gets that starting LT salary. I'm not ready to rule anything out yet and I mean that. I would not be stunned to see Eric Winston back over on the left side if he turns out to be our best option there. I wouldn't be shocked if Chester Pitts gets another look either.

I'm not saying that I think any of this will happen necessarily. I'm just saying that we might have just seen our new "nasty" LG drafted and not known it. We just won't know until they get to camp and start working.

I'm in the "give them the benefit of the doubt" camp on this right now. That could change. I'm not going to get down on this draft until we see what happens tomorrow. If Mendenhall does some kind of Adrian Peterson impersonation next year and runs all over everyone (including us in week 1) on his way to a rookie of the year award then this is going to be a tough one to swallow.

this is our new LT, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Htownsportsfan
04-26-2008, 10:28 PM
Why are you inside my head?


As mentioned in the thread these were different staffs. Keep in mind since Kubiak took over even operating with casserly our drafts have been above average.

The common thread in our last two drafts is Kubiak, people act as thought casserly suddenly made wise decisions two years ago with Williams, Ryans and Daniel et al bit the fact is he picked the players the coaches asked for. Maybe that was hois down fall in previous years was that Capers and Co. could not find diamonds in the rough like Kubiak and his staff. Now Kubiak has another coach on his staff highly regarded as an Oline talent and scheme guru so some doubt is justified, but the staff that made this pick should provide some cofidence as well.

Yankee_In_TX
04-26-2008, 10:30 PM
We won't know until the fall. But I have faith in Gibbs. If this was Gibbs' guy, and Kubes and Smith green lighted it, I think we're gonna' like this guy.

Hervoyel
04-26-2008, 10:34 PM
hes our LT believe it.. 100% garunteed

this is our new LT, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.



I do believe it. I think that with Gibbs that our starting LT will be the best player we have for the job and nobody else. My comments about what wouldn't surprise me were about how our previous regime would draft someone or sign someone and the job was theirs whether they applied themselves or not, whether they were a good fit or not.

If Brown is all the worst things in all the articles linked in this thread and he busts then he won't be our starting LT under Kubiak and Gibbs. If he can't cut it regardless of the coaching then he won't be our starting LT. If they leave Spencer at OT (as the swing tackle) and he beats Brown out of the job then Brown won't be our starting LT.

Believe that and I'm happy to say it's also 100% guaranteed.

Honoring Earl 34
04-26-2008, 10:34 PM
The way I see it , Gibbs will be here two years maybe . Because of that you need guys he can groom now to get them up and running .

False Start
04-26-2008, 10:36 PM
At first I was kinda like WTF ? Then I had time to look into the guy , and see the highlights they showed on the local newscast . They showed the press conference with Kubiak and Smith and they sure did seem happy , and excited as hell to get this guy . They are professionals , and know what they are talking about , so I cant really pass judgment on this decision . I really do hope the guy works out . Tomorrow is gonna be interesting . I cant wait to see what Kubiak and Smith can do . Heres to hoping we can pull off a steal at RB , and CB . :texflag:

Grid
04-26-2008, 10:38 PM
Allright, allright.

I was pissed off at first. Overreacted. Thought they reached. But after I watched the interviews, I really believe this was their guy. And if so, and they got extra picks, Awesome. They've done good in the past, and i overreacted, and I'm now behind it.

Duane, welcome to Houston...I wish you the best.

In kubiak and smith we trust.

Again, I was pissed, and overreacted. I got over it.

Id give ya some rep but it says I have to spread it around :D.

Much respect to ya swtbound.

texanpride

swtbound07
04-26-2008, 11:03 PM
Allright, allright.

I was pissed off at first. Overreacted. Thought they reached. But after I watched the interviews, I really believe this was their guy. And if so, and they got extra picks, Awesome. They've done good in the past, and i overreacted, and I'm now behind it.

Duane, welcome to Houston...I wish you the best.

In kubiak and smith we trust.

Again, I was pissed, and overreacted. I got over it.

im just quoting this so its seen again. I was an ass earlier, and it was unnecessary. I wasn't being an ass to be an ass, i was legitimately pissed...but im over it. I think as a fan, your allowed a window to be pissed and second guess stuff...but at the end of the day, its my team, and brown now plays for it. Welcome to the O-line Duane. I hope your as good as advertised.

Honoring Earl 34
04-26-2008, 11:12 PM
im just quoting this so its seen again. I was an ass earlier, and it was unnecessary. I wasn't being an ass to be an ass, i was legitimately pissed...but im over it. I think as a fan, your allowed a window to be pissed and second guess stuff...but at the end of the day, its my team, and brown now plays for it. Welcome to the O-line Duane. I hope your as good as advertised.

I watched drafts where I was going ... what the hell are we doing not taking player X . Then you look back and say what happened to player X he did'nt pan out I guess .

I'm hoping we hit on this pick ... we need a LT . I think after Albert and Williams were gone , we went to plan B . The good news is we moved down and got picks and still got plan b .

TexansLucky13
04-26-2008, 11:13 PM
im just quoting this so its seen again. I was an ass earlier, and it was unnecessary. I wasn't being an ass to be an ass, i was legitimately pissed...but im over it. I think as a fan, your allowed a window to be pissed and second guess stuff...but at the end of the day, its my team, and brown now plays for it. Welcome to the O-line Duane. I hope your as good as advertised.

It's all good SWT. We knew you'd come around.

Here is our future All-Star (lets hope!)

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/04/26/PH2008042602412.jpg

Wolf
04-26-2008, 11:13 PM
About SWT.. he is a :stirpot: (champion at that), but I think I repped him on the official boards long time ago ..because he does stick to his guns and he "mans up" to his posts (and why isn't there a SWT smiley?)


confused on this because I am too lazy to look it up but was the 8.5 sacks given up in one year or two.. (I have seen it mentioned both ways)

Anyway I was like herv.. I felt it was like the TJ pick all over with but I am not a draft wizard and mainly because I haven't watched the guy..

anyway about the mocks that forcasted where he would go.. curious if they expect 7 OT's to go on a run so fast and so early so the demand went up for him .. I expect if we traded down again and Brown would have been gone by the time we picked again, the board would light up about how we didn't get an OT early.

With that said.. Positives I see

NEGATIVES: Lacks top lateral blocking range. At times lazy with his hands.


I would think that is coach able (the laziness) and (if I read right) stands up too tall and something else but that was pages ago

positives.
Coach Gibbs should bring out the best in him
probably not start but if he does that says something (I doubt the Texans would throw him in the fire).. Texans probably will let him develop
I take it he went against Chris Long (who has a good motor) in college and in TC.. possibly going against Mario

If those don't help him.. well the Texans scouts dropped a goose egg on this pick.. but time will tell

I had a few hours to chill and go over this thread and the one at www.inthebullseye.com on what was said by many people

I was shocked at first but calmness has comeover me now

TexansLucky13
04-26-2008, 11:14 PM
About SWT.. he is a :stirpot: (champion at that), but I think I repped him on the official boards long time ago ..because he does stick to his guns and he "mans up" to his posts (and why isn't there a SWT smiley?)

Here ya go

http://www.emofaces.com/en/emoticons/p/poker-emoticon-sunglasses.gif

SWT Smiley

Trail.Blazr
04-26-2008, 11:16 PM
Build our offensive and defensive lines first. I think this will be a great pick. A solid O-Line can make most NFL running backs look great......a poor O-Line will make that same running back look terrible ( Edgerrin James ). Forget Mendenhall and the other running backs. YOU CANNOT WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP WITHOUT DOMINANCE IN THE TRENCHES!!

Truth.

The only thing I don't like about the pick is that it's not the sexy pick, but I don't believe any true sexy picks were gone by the 18th. All this Mendenhall talk seems wishfull. Let's not confuse him with a McFadden caliber player. I'm not saying Menden isn't good, but we sure didn't pass on a blue chip RB. Instead, a more pressing need was addressed.

I'm sick and tired of watching our QB get laid out. I'm sick and tired of watching 3 and outs. I'm sick and tired of being at the bottom of the AFC South. We have the skill players we need. We just don't have the line shored up to give those skill players a level field to play on. LT is the weakest link on that line, and the FO has the fortitude to put a stop to it. Sure, we have the potential of Big Nasty to squash that need, but last time I recall banking on a LT coming back from the infirmary, Boselli ended up busting. Someone recently pointed out Young to me too. We've been patching long enough.

Kubes, Smith, Gibbs... you saw a hole and filled it. Thank you!

Brown will be starting week 1, I have no doubt. I don't believe for one second that Kubes, Smith and Gibbs would take an OL in the first if they didn't think he would make no better impact than a 5th round lineman. Will he be in Honolulu next February? Prolly not, but let's not confuse him with Mr. Irrelevant. While he certainly isn't the consensus 1st round grade linemane, I like what I read about how DB fit's the Gibbs scheme. I think he fits the Texans 1st round pick well.

Welcome to Houston Duane!

I have some advise for you: Don't read the forums! We are all nutz!!! :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: But in our defense, We've spent the past 2 years talking about Reggie Bush an Vince Young :brickwall:

Maddict5
04-26-2008, 11:42 PM
Id give ya some rep but it says I have to spread it around :D.

Much respect to ya swtbound.

texanpride

probably all the neg rep you gave him earlier :)

i was happy with the pick from the start but when i see the way smith and kubiak especially are gushing over him (noticeably moreso than mario and amobi imo), im starting to get really excited about him

281
04-26-2008, 11:42 PM
I'm not saying Menden isn't good, but we sure didn't pass on a blue chip RB.

i love the duane brown pick, but you're WAY off there. mendenhall is going to be very, very good... you'll see.

Hooston Texan
04-26-2008, 11:48 PM
Hopefully this draft will follow the pattern of the 2006 draft: controversial first pick that pans out followed by great pick after great pick.

I have some real concerns about Brown (more having to do with his school's systemic lack of success in the NFL), but if he can keep Schaub's backside clean, then I don't care where he was selected.

That having been said, it is instructive that no tackles were taken today in the 37 picks after Brown was taken. Most draftniks I followed had Brown grouped with Sam Baker, Anthony Collins and Carl Nicks. If Collins or Nicks are still on the board tomorrow when the Texans' next pick comes up, I may get sick. Though when the Cowboys jumped ahead of us and took Jenkins, I was really not sure where else to go.

Trail.Blazr
04-27-2008, 12:06 AM
It's just weird that our QB is taller than our future starting LT. Dammit.

Charles Spenser is 6-4 as well. It's all good. It's not like we drafted Gary Coleman

Trail.Blazr
04-27-2008, 12:42 AM
but you're WAY off there

I could very, very well could be. And I won't be alone. He's quick, but he's not THAT fast or elusive. He lacks the homerun threat that you get out of a McFadden, who I think of when I say blue chip. Did Mendenhall even sniff the heisman?

I wont deny I beleive Mendenhall to be higher rated than Brown. I would say either have a bit of a learning curve ahead of them.

BSofA04
04-27-2008, 12:51 AM
Allright, allright.

I was pissed off at first. Overreacted. Thought they reached. But after I watched the interviews, I really believe this was their guy. And if so, and they got extra picks, Awesome. They've done good in the past, and i overreacted, and I'm now behind it.

Duane, welcome to Houston...I wish you the best.

In kubiak and smith we trust.

Again, I was pissed, and overreacted. I got over it.

No worries man, I over reacted too. But after 6 months of mock drafts and fantasy scenerios, you can't blame the way we felt after we heard the pick. I never would have though that Duane Brown was our future LT but after reviewing film, I'm ok with him. Best of luck to you Duane and may you have a long ass career with the Texans!!!

BSofA04
04-27-2008, 12:54 AM
Charles Spenser is 6-4 as well. It's all good. It's not like we drafted Gary Coleman

The good thing is that he has longer arms than the 6'6" Chris Williams. My main conern is the pass protection in our division, so Duane Brown will have the PHYSICAL tools to suceed. Welcome Duane Brown!

J-Russ
04-27-2008, 12:56 AM
I could very, very well could be. And I won't be alone. He's quick, but he's not THAT fast or elusive. He lacks the homerun threat that you get out of a McFadden, who I think of when I say blue chip. Did Mendenhall even sniff the heisman?

I wont deny I beleive Mendenhall to be higher rated than Brown. I would say either have a bit of a learning curve ahead of them.

The best player in the NFL wasn't a heisman candidate in college. But I don't think you can be consider good without once being in the running for the heisman, right?

Trail.Blazr
04-27-2008, 01:00 AM
The best player in the NFL wasn't a heisman candidate in college. But I don't think you can be consider good without once being in the running for the heisman, right?


Never argued good. Prolly never will.

Trail.Blazr
04-27-2008, 01:10 AM
My main conern is the pass protection in our division, so Duane Brown will have the PHYSICAL tools to suceed. Welcome Duane Brown!

I concur. If I understand the pick from they eyes of the FO, it is the PHYSICAL tools that he possesses that cater to thier belief he was worthy of being picked at that spot. Like many have said already, I'll trust them.

J-Russ
04-27-2008, 01:13 AM
"We were worried, but I tried to be the calm before the storm because I had a room full of people who were scared to death that we weren't going to get him," Smith said. "I had to put a good face on."

The telephone rang in the Texans' war room at Reliant Stadium. It was a team inquiring if the Texans wanted to trade down again.

"I heard the phone ring, and I screamed to Rick, 'Don't answer it!' " Kubiak said. "We've been in love with Duane for a long time. He fits what we want to do. He's very athletic. I love his passion for the game. We're calling on him to help this team very, very early."

Well, considering that Brown is a slow-learner; I'm hoping Kubiak mails him the playbook over night for alittle early homework.

I hope he's ready by the time we step on Heinz field.

Mr PC
04-27-2008, 01:33 AM
The more I think about it, the happier I am with this draft pick. Brown is super athletic and super intelligent. He played tight end and had the highest GPA on his team. Gibbs knows that he can mold Brown into the LT that our zone blocking system needs. Im glad the Texans have finally filled that big hole at left tackle.

utahmark
04-27-2008, 01:38 AM
after 2 years of nothing but solid picks from this regime, i cant believe people would be upset about one of their draft picks before they even get to camp. un-freaking believable. just go back and look at some of the post's from the last 2 years after the draft and see how stupid some of those coments were.
you might wanna think twice before critizing the guys who have put together a couple of drafts that rival anyones in the league.

GuerillaBlack
04-27-2008, 01:45 AM
Add to that, OL isn't a "sexy" pick like a RB or CB (two positions of need you could say, and players were available at 18). Oh well. Move along. Hope Brown can become a stud.

ChampionTexan
04-27-2008, 01:58 AM
The more I think about it, the happier I am with this draft pick. Brown is super athletic and super intelligent. He played tight end and had the highest GPA on his team. Gibbs knows that he can mold Brown into the LT that our zone blocking system needs. Im glad the Texans have finally filled that big hole at left tackle.

I like the trade/pick alot, but I'm still glad to see the comment on his GPA. Throughout this entire thread, just about the only comment that bothered me a little bit was one questioning his intellect. I will also admit the the Va-Tech NFL track record isn't one I admire when it comes to character (I have a very good friend who's a Falcon fan and I've heard his viewpoint numerous times in the last several months).

Welcome to the Texans Mr. Brown - here's wishing you a long and successful career!

threetoedpete
04-27-2008, 02:04 AM
Add to that, OL isn't a "sexy" pick like a RB or CB (two positions of need you could say, and players were available at 18). Oh well. Move along. Hope Brown can become a stud.

Well one thing was for cetain, Mr. McNair couldn't keep going through QB contracts like M-n-Ms. they had to do something. And when ever they pulled the trigger on one...it was going to hurt. Either we tanked a season to get with in range for an elite guy...package picks to move up, or this. Look on the bright side I have to shut up about the OLT slot for a couple of years. I knew there'd be a run on tackles...but nothing like this though. There is no gaurentee he would of been there at the 79. None what so ever. By my count there are still six teams looking for them. And the pickens are getting prety slim. The only reach here is people believing Eric or Pitts was going to kick out there in pinch. Butler ?

dtran04
04-27-2008, 02:05 AM
If Gibbs really wanted this guy, then every Houston fan should want this guy. Nuff said.

run-david-run
04-27-2008, 02:18 AM
Mario Williams ignited the fanbase. That was a good pick from the beginning. He was on the radar. A guy like Brown is going to take time to build up and the Texas MUST be successful.

So now we're comparing the number one overall pick to a mid 20s pick. Exceptional.

ObsiWan
04-27-2008, 02:42 AM
Well one thing was for cetain, Mr. McNair couldn't keep going through QB contracts like M-n-Ms. they had to do something. And when ever they pulled the trigger on one...it was going to hurt. Either we tanked a season to get with in range for an elite guy...package picks to move up, or this. Look on the bright side I have to shut up about the OLT slot for a couple of years. I knew there'd be a run on tackles...but nothing like this though. There is no gaurentee he would of been there at the 79. None what so ever. By my count there are still six teams looking for them. And the pickens are getting prety slim. The only reach here is people believing Eric or Pitts was going to kick out there in pinch. Butler ?

thanks for putting me in your sig...
...but don't be like the media and just use a "soundbite" ... remember that statement was in reference to the #18 pick.

threetoedpete
04-27-2008, 02:51 AM
you wear it well. Well the moral of this little story is they did take one in the first. And....he was their target all along...I don't have to chage squat....you threw it up there.

Dan B.
04-27-2008, 02:54 AM
yeah but mario williams brings us sacks, tackles, fumbles, possibly an interception

What does a lineman bring? a pancake?

I refuse to believe that anyone who watched the Texans over the last six years could ask what a lineman brings to a football team.

ObsiWan
04-27-2008, 03:02 AM
you wear it well. Well the moral of this little story is they did take one in the first. And....he was their target all along...I don't have to chage squat....you threw it up there.

I'm just glad you think I'm worthy of quoting.
:D

and at the risk of repeating myself'
- We got the OT that our new OL coach targeted
- We get to pay him #26 money instead of #18 money
- We got two extra picks in the process

It ain't the "sexy" Mendenhall pick that some of us were thinking might happen at #18 but there's no downside that I can see.
...quote away

threetoedpete
04-27-2008, 03:08 AM
http://texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=905679&postcount=4

b0ng
04-27-2008, 03:31 AM
I know that I've flipped flopped, and right now, I think that if this was their guy from the get-go, and they get extra picks and him, then it should be a plus.

Nza
04-27-2008, 03:34 AM
Finally Houston draft an OL in the 1st. Whilst I'm not overly sure about this guy, I think it will be a solid pick - he definitely looks like an NFL LT to me. Quite athletic.

GNTLEWOLF
04-27-2008, 04:04 AM
I haven't been contributing much to the boards lately but I couldn't help myself at this time. I am one of those people who has been harping, and even angry that OLT hadn't really been addressed in any draft since that first year with the Boselli/Young debacle. I have voiced the opinion that a position as important to the safety and development of young QB's as the OLT spot is should not be relagated to late round picks and 6 FA's named Joe. Today, I waited with baited breath for our pick at #18. I just knew that one of the premier OT's that I had heard so much about would fall to us. I was really pissed when we traded out of Otah and only got a third and a sixth round pick for once again missing out on a sure OLT starter. I have always believed and still do to some extent that there are backfield busts and injured retirees whose carreers might have been saved and extended with a truely good OL. I was livid. I have gone through several hours of wondering if Smith/Kubiak have a clue. So I am not thrilled with who we wound up with. BUT!!!! we did finally address that first round OLT that I have been whining about. I will wait and see, and hope he works out. About the part where he was the guy actually targetted by Gibbs... I think that is the kind of BS coaches say when they wind up with the guy they got.... even if he truely wasn't the first choice. But at least he is an OT. I pray he is the guy that saves Shaub's backside and allows him to be the QB we have wanted. I hope my anxiety is unfounded. I hope.

Thorn
04-27-2008, 04:43 AM
For pure comedic value, this thread rocks.

Put me down right now as someone who supports this pick. So there. http://www.trekbbs.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

texdawg
04-27-2008, 06:27 AM
When this pick was turned in my first thought was "who'?, Huh?, what?.

After reading the posts on Brown's bio he sounds like a legitimate good pick for the Texans. Couple that with extra picks. Whats not to like? He seems to fit the mold for ZBS with lots of upside.

All picks have risks, this guy seems to have the potential to be a much needed addition. Glad to see the Texans finally go OT.

As time goes by, this could very well be a positive turning point for the Texans.

beerlover
04-27-2008, 07:06 AM
couldn't sleep, restless night thinking about this draft who the Texans add today should be a lot more exciting from a Texans fans viewpoint after having only the one pick yesterday :headhurts:

anyways yanked out ourlads draft guide (noticed everyone seemed to have a copy @ the draft tables) & looked up Duane Browns rating 7.07 sorry to say that does project to a late 2nd rd. grade. if the Texans had a 2nd rd. pick I think they would have been able to wait til then but he was an ascending prospect & tackle position along with DE has become the flavour of this draft.

last year for instance the Texans used a late 5th rd. pick #163 on a LT from the same school named Brandon Frye. he too was an ascending prospect with exceptional speed, athletic, tough & agile given a draft grade of 6.89. the only difference, he was a former DE instead of a TE. I just don't see the huge gap between picks on paper, either the Texans got a steal in last years draft, or they got fleeced this year, just hope the former is true :gun:

Texans made this move to gain more picks (late 3rd & early 6th) but was it enough? the Eagles picking just one spot behind us @ #19 traded their pick (Carolina wanted OT Jeff Otah) giving them 2nd & 4th round picks this year, plus next year’s first-round pick

Sideline
04-27-2008, 07:25 AM
At first when hearing about this pick I have to say I didn't want to comment too much as I did not know much about this guy, but I pulled out a few game tapes of VT that I had around and watched this guy, I am very pleased with this pick.

The guy is athletic with very quick feet, and the one thing that impresses me so much is how he gets up to that second level, a lot of the plays I have seen you see him handle his guy in the trench then get straight up to that second level and seal off the hole.

We have needed to get a first round caliber lineman for 6 years now and we finally have it, I am never going to second guess our front office with the great job they have done of recent. Good job I am pleased.

Maddict5
04-27-2008, 07:26 AM
couldn't sleep, restless night thinking about this draft who the Texans add today should be a lot more exciting from a Texans fans viewpoint after having only the one pick yesterday :headhurts:

anyways yanked out ourlads draft guide (noticed everyone seemed to have a copy @ the draft tables) & looked up Duane Browns rating 7.07 sorry to say that does project to a late 2nd rd. grade. if the Texans had a 2nd rd. pick I think they would have been able to wait til then but he was an ascending prospect & tackle position along with DE has become the flavour of this draft.

last year for instance the Texans used a late 5th rd. pick #163 on a LT from the same school named Brandon Frye. he too was an ascending prospect with exceptional speed, athletic, tough & agile given a draft grade of 6.89. the only difference, he was a former DE instead of a TE. I just don't see the huge gap between picks on paper, either the Texans got a steal in last years draft, or they got fleeced this year, just hope the former is true :gun:

well if a draft magazine says it :rolleyes:

i truly believe if we had a 2nd rd pick, we'd have taken him @#26 still. they had a possible trade down option that they didnt take because they were afraid somebody would steal him from us.

from the sounds of kubiak and co. they liked this guy alot more than the draft writers and believed others did too. heck they were reluctanct to trade down to #26 even. thank god they did because i couldn't take the crap they would've taken from everyone for taking him at #18 over rashard and jenkins..

Bubbajwp
04-27-2008, 07:30 AM
LOL @ fans. We need oline. You build from the trenches out. We need oline. We need oline. We need oline!





WHAT WE DRAFTED OLINE ARE YOU FREAKIN KIDDING ME!!!!! LOL:fans:

JayCee
04-27-2008, 07:44 AM
Either Kubiak and co are great actors or they truly targeted this guy from the get go and he isn't a compromise with what was available.

I'm excited.

Well, I’m off to bed, nearly 1am here, looking forward to seeing who we got in the 3rd when I wake up.

rmartin65
04-27-2008, 07:46 AM
I wish we could have traded down again, but this is not a bad pick. The Texans need Oline help, and they got it. Not a dynomite pick by any means, but soild.

CloakNNNdagger
04-27-2008, 08:04 AM
From ESPN chat (http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=19984)predraft:

Scoot (Syracuse): Duane, why should you get drafted?

Duane Brown: First of all, I think my work ethic and desire are my best attributes. I work hard all day, every day. I have great athleticism for my position. I think I can bring that to the team, being able to stretch guys. I'm also a good teammate, I try to motivate guys and not cause trouble in the locker room.

Howie (Los Angeles): What was your favorite moment from college?

Duane Brown: I'd have to say my first start at right tackle, going against Mario Williams. I'd only been in the position for a couple weeks and was anxious to see where I stood. I held my own and got the ball rolling out there.

Pantherstang84
04-27-2008, 08:06 AM
The more I think about it, the happier I am with this draft pick. Brown is super athletic and super intelligent. He played tight end and had the highest GPA on his team. Gibbs knows that he can mold Brown into the LT that our zone blocking system needs. Im glad the Texans have finally filled that big hole at left tackle.

Just go look at his combine and game clips on the Texans web site. THe kid can flat out move. Absolutely gorgeous kick sliding.

WaywardTexanFan
04-27-2008, 08:11 AM
Mike Mayock (NFLN) is an *****. He said Houston should have waited until the 2nd round to pick up Brown. This boy is like the rest, jackin his jaw without engaging his brain.

J-Russ
04-27-2008, 08:22 AM
anyways yanked out ourlads draft guide (noticed everyone seemed to have a copy @ the draft tables) & looked up Duane Browns rating 7.07 sorry to say that does project to a late 2nd rd. grade. if the Texans had a 2nd rd. pick I think they would have been able to wait til then but he was an ascending prospect & tackle position along with DE has become the flavour of this draft.


I don't know why it matter where he was projected then, because in the end he was moving up draft boards. If we weren't going to make the "reach" in the 1st round, another team would have.

Our big three wanted him, they had a chance to move back some more with a trade from Seattle(I don't know what pick, but heard of an extra 4th), but felt dangered of losing Duane Brown in the process

GuerillaBlack
04-27-2008, 08:56 AM
So now we're comparing the number one overall pick to a mid 20s pick. Exceptional.
WEAK.

Does not matter where in the first round. There are plenty of studs (or guys who can ignite a fanbase from the start like I said) going all over the place in the first round.

beerlover
04-27-2008, 09:00 AM
I don't know why it matter where he was projected then, because in the end he was moving up draft boards. If we weren't going to make the "reach" in the 1st round, another team would have.

Our big three wanted him, they had a chance to move back some more with a trade from Seattle(I don't know what pick, but heard of an extra 4th), but felt dangered of losing Duane Brown in the process

here is anaology:

first day as it happened - disbelief idonno: latter as the trade down & selection settles in take the company line :logo: the morning after :headhurts: & the realization who just slept with your best friends wife :hide: you just have to say no even if the desire/need is great the consequences outweigh the risk :bat:

seriously Duane Brown was never on our radar because we didn't have a 2nd rd. pick. should have been nervous I guess as soon as the Texans traded down. I can actually see the difference between Frye & Brown one is a mauler (Frye) the other is finesse (Brown). I wonder if Frye doesn't get a shot @ RT move Winston inside to RG next to Meyers with Pitts the only remaining linemen staying put. in this scenero that would answear my questions about the future & this pick. but as for now all we (draft geeks) have at our disposel are opinions, draft guides, draft sites & expert analysts feedback.

stingray
04-27-2008, 10:43 AM
I found this good analysis on Brown...

2008 NFL Draft Prospect - Scouting Report
Few players increased their value more than Duane Brown at the Combine. In a couple of days Brown pretty much went from a mid-round selection to a possible second round pick. He is still a little raw since he moved to offensive tackle from tight end just three years ago, but he quickly proved at Virginia Tech that he is a formidable lineman. During his senior season he started to improve his form and that swiftly turned into much better production.

The buzz started during Senior Week when Brown had a good showing at the East-West Shrine game. The buzz grew fast at the Combine when Brown ranked among the leaders in the 40-yard dash, vertical jump, 3-cone drill and 20-yard shuffle for offensive tackles. Brown will still need some work on his technique and to get a little stronger at the point of attack, but once that is taken care of many expect that he can be a great lineman for years to come. He will be just as quick as most ends and you cannot teach that speed or athleticism.

The second round might be a bit of a stretch, but he will be in the top ten offensive tackles on a lot of draft boards and just about everybody wants a tackle sooner or later (that could push him into the late second round). If he falls much further than that, he will be a steal as long as he can fine tune his technique and eventually live up to his Combine numbers


http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=1522

Mr teX
04-27-2008, 11:14 AM
WEAK.

Does not matter where in the first round. There are plenty of studs (or guys who can ignite a fanbase from the start like I said) going all over the place in the first round.

You guys gotta be kidding me!!!!!!!

See the bolded is the problem, You guys want someone to get happy about whereas Kubes & company are trying to build a contender; you do that from the line out. I personally didn't even know who the guy was but with Gibbs on board & his track record, plus the nasty streak that this kid looks like he has, I think we'll finally see an offensive line we can be comfortable with for years.

Threetoedpete must be ecstatic that we took an Offensive lineman in the 1st, reach or not. what's his favorite line every time the texans don't get help on the O-line: " I can take it as long as you guys can.."

Smash_Mouth_Mario
04-27-2008, 01:27 PM
From ESPN chat (http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=19984)predraft:

Duane Brown: I'd have to say my first start at right tackle, going against Mario Williams. I'd only been in the position for a couple weeks and was anxious to see where I stood. I held my own and got the ball rolling out there.

I love this! Grasshopper going against the Master!

Smash_Mouth_Mario
04-27-2008, 01:30 PM
Mike Mayock (NFLN) is an *****. He said Houston should have waited until the 2nd round to pick up Brown. This boy is like the rest, jackin his jaw without engaging his brain.

Using what 2nd round pick? :)

Pardon me, if that's why you posted that.

Smash_Mouth_Mario
04-27-2008, 01:35 PM
The Texans fans reaction on chron.com surprised me! This would not be the case 3-4 years ago. Things have changed.

The key: They trust Kubs! ---> [/URL][URL="http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid823425601/bclid769464594/bctid1519707935"]The Fans React (http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid823425601/bclid769464594/bctid1519707935)

nunusguy
04-27-2008, 01:36 PM
29. SAN FRANCISCO 49'ERS (f/IND)
DUANE BROWN OT | Virginia Tech | Scouting Report
My surprise pick of round one. The Niners have a ton of needs but they are going to be looking for an offensive lineman very early and I've been told that Brown is a strong possibility for them, either here or at #39. If they don't grab him in round one I don't think he'd make it to their next pick and they probably realize that too, which is why they pull the trigger here. A former tight end, Brown is a fantastic athlete with experience at both left and right tackle and in the last month before the draft he has been flying up draft boards all around the league. I am out on a limb with this one...
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft2.html
********************************
FWIW: maybe this is why Smith-Kubiak moved at 26 with the 49ers sitting a
couple notchs back at 29 ? And nfldraftcountdown is a Draft site with some cred.

Smash_Mouth_Mario
04-27-2008, 01:40 PM
[/URL][URL="http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid823425601/bclid769464594/bctid1519707949"]MEET DUANE BROWN (http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid823425601/bclid769464594/bctid1519707949)

b0ng
04-27-2008, 02:02 PM
[/URL][URL="http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid823425601/bclid769464594/bctid1519707949"]MEET DUANE BROWN (http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid823425601/bclid769464594/bctid1519707949)

It looked like i was watching her boobs the entire interview.

Not that, you know, that's a bad thing.

YoungTexanFan
04-27-2008, 03:16 PM
[/URL][URL="http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid823425601/bclid769464594/bctid1519707949"]MEET DUANE BROWN (http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid823425601/bclid769464594/bctid1519707949)

Very good interview. He was a bit lost when asked about Salam, but good questions and answer session. Not the generic rookie interview. Rep your way.

NitroGSXR
04-27-2008, 03:40 PM
Very good interview. He was a bit lost when asked about Salam, but good questions and answer session. Not the generic rookie interview. Rep your way.
What did he say? Please, someone help.

The Pencil Neck
04-27-2008, 03:45 PM
What did he say? Please, someone help.

Basically that he really hadn't seen much of Salaam. He hasn't watched him play. Hasn't seen the commercial but he's heard about it.

TexanSam
04-27-2008, 03:47 PM
What did he say? Please, someone help.

1. Anna Megan Riley first asks if he's surprised about being picked in the first round. He says not really, he knew it would be a possibility. He said some teams had him rated among the top 5 tackles. He's honored to selected in the first round.

2. She asks if there will be any difficulty he sees to adjusting to the LT in the NFL after only one year of LT experience in college. He says he doesn't think so, he's very committed and he thinks this is the perfect scheme for him and brings out his athleticism.

3. Shes asks about Eprhaim Salaam but he doesn't know much about him.

4. How will being reunited with Brandon Frye (former VT teammate) help? He says he will be able to help by helping him with the down times and hard times, having someone to talk to who's been through the rookie campaign.

5. She asks if there's something specific that he'll be working on. He says his hand usage is something that he really needs to work on, along with run blocking and rolling with his hips and being more explosive with his hips.

NitroGSXR
04-27-2008, 03:49 PM
1. Anna Megan Riley first asks if he's surprised about being picked in the first round. He says not really, he knew it would be a possibility. He said some teams had him rated among the top 5 tackles. He's honored to selected in the first round.

2. She asks if there will be any difficulty he sees to adjusting to the LT in the NFL after only one year of LT experience in college. He says he doesn't think so, he's very committed and he thinks this is the perfect scheme for him and brings out his athleticism.

3. Shes asks about Eprhaim Salaam but he doesn't know much about him.

4. How will being reunited with Brandon Frye (former VT teammate) help? He says he will be able to help by helping him with the down times and hard times, having someone to talk to who's been through the rookie campaign.

5. She asks if there's something specific that he'll be working on. He says his hand usage is something that he really needs to work on, along with run blocking and rolling with his hips and being more explosive with his hips.
THANK YOU! Would rep but have to spread.

TexanSam
04-27-2008, 03:51 PM
THANK YOU! Would rep but have to spread.

No problem man. He seems like a down to earth type of guy from what I could tell from the interview.

The Pencil Neck
04-27-2008, 03:52 PM
THANK YOU! Would rep but have to spread.

I repped him for you.

NitroGSXR
04-27-2008, 03:54 PM
No problem man. He seems like a down to earth type of guy from what I could tell from the interview.
He really does but he also has the look of a fellow who has a learning disability. I'm sure I'm wrong but that's what I saw out of the interview.

Thanks Pencil. Also have to spread so couldn't rep you.

Ryan
04-27-2008, 03:54 PM
I repped him for you.

me too.

NitroGSXR
04-27-2008, 04:02 PM
me too.
Rep Pencilneck for me.

TexanSam
04-27-2008, 04:03 PM
I hope he has a sense of humor. And I hope Salaam stays here as long as possible along with Pitts that way we can have a comedy trio!

TexansLucky13
04-27-2008, 04:03 PM
Rep Pencilneck for me.

Rep TexansLucky13 for me.

:spy:

ubecool454
04-27-2008, 05:00 PM
i hate this. I want to cry. Pathetic. Pathetic. An utter failure. No. Damnit NO.

Now this is a perfect example of why I say we have some of the most pitiful fans in the NFL..lol. This guy has to be one of the people that was against the Mario pick...lol I guess football was gone away from Houston for so long that the fans forgot how to be real fans...man back that pick up. :aggressive:

ubecool454
04-27-2008, 05:01 PM
explain yaself swt.

He can't explain..lol:goodpost:

ubecool454
04-27-2008, 05:02 PM
we reached massively, and passed on cason and phillips. this WILL haunt us. Screw Gibbs.We reached for the 8th freaking tackle. I hate this.

find another team:wild:

kiwitexansfan
04-27-2008, 05:03 PM
Now this is a perfect example of why I say we have some of the most pitiful fans in the NFL..lol. This guy has to be one of the people that was against the Mario pick...lol I guess football was gone away from Houston for so long that the fans forgot how to be real fans...man back that pick up. :aggressive:

Know him before you judge him Ubecool.

SWT is a hardcore Texans fan expressing his dissappointment, he is well known around these parts and we understand him.

The pick was way out of left field and could be seen as a reach, time will tell but you need to respect that SWT is a passionate fan expressing himself passionately.

swtbound07
04-27-2008, 06:04 PM
find another team:wild:

hey douche...i already said twice in THIS thread that i was pissed at the pick, but overreacted.....and i don't need to find another team. your not the god and judge of nfl fandom.

NitroGSXR
04-27-2008, 06:11 PM
Know him before you judge him Ubecool.

SWT is a hardcore Texans fan expressing his dissappointment, he is well known around these parts and we understand him.

The pick was way out of left field and could be seen as a reach, time will tell but you need to respect that SWT is a passionate fan expressing himself passionately.
I know him via the board (not personally) and I think his behavior was an embarrassment to Texan fans out there. Thousands of people read this board worldwide. I felt it to be a poor representation of Texans fans overall.

He did apologize so take that for what it's worth.

drewmar74
04-27-2008, 06:19 PM
He really does but he also has the look of a fellow who has a learning disability. I'm sure I'm wrong but that's what I saw out of the interview.

Thanks Pencil. Also have to spread so couldn't rep you.

Well, he was actually reasonably articulate so there was a lot going on in what you couldn't hear.

In short, nah. It's alright.

Smash_Mouth_Mario
04-27-2008, 06:20 PM
Now this is a perfect example of why I say we have some of the most pitiful fans in the NFL..lol. This guy has to be one of the people that was against the Mario pick...lol I guess football was gone away from Houston for so long that the fans forgot how to be real fans...man back that pick up. :aggressive:

This has changed a bit over the years since Kubs have taken over. In the past, we would have picked Reggie Bush (fan pressure) and just given him the ball every play (a single player savior mentality). Similarly to how we used Hakeem in the 80's - give him the ball every play but failed to put good complintary players around him (until later, of course). We saw this with the Astros as well with Baggs and Biggs. Milk'em as if Baggs would homer us to a Pennant. It doesn't work.

We're following the example of the Spurs/Ravens/Patriots/Broncos method of team building this time around.

And although, we do have a few "overreacting fans." It's not like it used to be. Plus, we have fans that set them straight (we send them to a reeducation program). :cowboy1:

NitroGSXR
04-27-2008, 06:26 PM
Well, he was actually reasonably articulate so there was a lot going on in what you couldn't hear.

In short, nah. It's alright.
Oh I saw that. His speaking ability appeared to be quite fluid when he was talking to Anna-Megan. I'm talking more so about his look. It really.... I don't know... a lot of people say that he looks mean... I don't feel scared of him by looking at him. I actually want to speak slowly to him (like half of the planet does with me. LMAO.) and maybe pat him on the head or something.

I'm real glad to hear that he sounded real articulate. That's definitely something extremely positive to be hearing because we need a smart LT here.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Duane Brown doubter. I'm happy to have him on the Houston Texans and have been since he was selected. I flinched a little bit but I did jump for joy right after. Honest. Kinda like... Yeeee...uh?....aaaaahhhhhhhh!!

Mailman
04-27-2008, 06:50 PM
Know him before you judge him Ubecool.

SWT is a hardcore Texans fan expressing his dissappointment, he is well known around these parts and we understand him.

The pick was way out of left field and could be seen as a reach, time will tell but you need to respect that SWT is a passionate fan expressing himself passionately.

The pick was not really that far out in left field. I read about Brown climbing the draft charts a day or two before the draft. I'm no expert by any means, in fact I am a total moron, so if I was reading about him (along with Gosder Cherilus), then you can be damn sure the NFL teams had him on their boards and were ready to grab him.

Don't invest too much in the words of Todd McShay, Lance Zierlein, John Harris, etc...What did they all say about Limas Sweed? Devin Thomas? Not only were both of these guys bested in the draft by Coog receiver Donnie Avery, there wasn't a single wideout taken in the entire first round.

What about Joe Flacco? How many experts had him going in the middle of the first round before Brian Brohm?

Or Sam Baker? I don't recall his name being a consensus first round pick.

sbalderrama
04-27-2008, 07:17 PM
Interesting column in sporting news:

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=405215

Matt Hayes is already calling Jake Long a bust, and that Duane Brown should have been the #1 pick.

Smash_Mouth_Mario
04-27-2008, 07:31 PM
It looked like i was watching her boobs the entire interview. Not that, you know, that's a bad thing.

Him or you? :shades:

NitroGSXR
04-27-2008, 07:31 PM
Interesting column in sporting news:

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=405215

Matt Hayes is already calling Jake Long a bust, and that Duane Brown should have been the #1 pick.
Lol. Not quite the #1 pick. If so... then they shouldn't be writing articles. I don't doubt Brown's potential but I would have never thought of him as a #1 selection. Ever. Not coming from Virginia Tech. A poor offensive team.

PapaL
04-27-2008, 07:49 PM
I thought it was a very good interview. He seems sur eof himself. I was especially impressed when he said he had things he wanted to work on (hand and rolling of hips). I think it shows that he knows he hasn't be given a free pass and will have to eanr his way.

Smash_Mouth_Mario
04-27-2008, 08:08 PM
Interesting column in sporting news:

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=405215

Matt Hayes is already calling Jake Long a bust, and that Duane Brown should have been the #1 pick.

Heh. I was wondering when we'd start seeing the "Long is a bust" articles.

Turning Leaf: Pick No. 1, right out of the box, has all the panache of pea soup. NFL guys say Long is the prototype left tackle, a player who can have a Tony Boselli-like career. I covered Tony Boselli way back when, and trust me, Jake Long is no Tony Boselli.

Hello, West Texas A&M: Did anyone else notice how every draft expert on the planet says Long needs to improve his pass blocking? You don't use the No. 1 overall pick on a mauler still developing as a pass blocker (see: Robert Gallery) -- especially when he's protecting the most important position on the field.

Bill Polian's perfect world: Duane Brown, Virginia Tech. Texans took him with the 26th overall pick. Former tight end, huge wingspan, very athletic, nasty attitude.

ATXtexanfan
04-27-2008, 08:14 PM
long is a bust already? the burden of #1 overall. i still can't believe mario came out on top this year. bush, young, demeco getting droy in his first year

Blake
04-27-2008, 08:27 PM
Ill admit that I was surprised to see Duane called in the first. I thought we were targeting Chris Williams in the first and since he was drafted ahead of us we accepted the trade down to 26. I think the Texans let the run on tackles get to them, and personally feel that a 2nd trade down still would have netted them Duane Brown. But maybe the NFL teams thought of Brown as well as we did and were prepaired to take him with a later 1 or early 2.

Sometimes you just have to stay where you are and take your man rather than trade down and end up with a guy you didnt like as much.

Mailman
04-27-2008, 08:33 PM
Ill admit that I was surprised to see Duane called in the first. I thought we were targeting Chris Williams in the first and since he was drafted ahead of us we accepted the trade down to 26. I think the Texans let the run on tackles get to them, and personally feel that a 2nd trade down still would have netted them Duane Brown. But maybe the NFL teams thought of Brown as well as we did and were prepaired to take him with a later 1 or early 2.

Sometimes you just have to stay where you are and take your man rather than trade down and end up with a guy you didnt like as much.

Orlando Pace is getting older and coming off a season-ending injury. Considering St. Louis took an OT (Greco) in the third and an OG in the fifth (Scheuning), if Brown had been available I could see them taking him over Avery with the second pick of the second round. Smithiak not pulling the trigger at 26 would've been a gamble that could have undermined the Texans entire draft strategy. Wise move, IMO.

leebigeztx
04-27-2008, 09:19 PM
Yall might think I'm crazy, but for all his Williams gifts, he's not a tough guy mentally. At the senior bowl he was abused and just seem like he didnt care. Gibbs probably interviewed the guy once and passed because of this. I like Brown because he fits their profile. Now that the texans have systems in place, their draft board looks different now. Dont worry about what people say.

ReliantTexan
04-27-2008, 10:02 PM
Sometimes you just have to stay where you are and take your man rather than trade down and end up with a guy you didnt like as much. Kubiak said that this is the player that he and Gibbs wanted all along. Albert, Williams and Brown were the Ot's they had their eye on coming in to this draft. They were actually thinking of trading back up to make sure they could get Brown.

threetoedpete
04-28-2008, 12:12 AM
Kubiak said that this is the player that he and Gibbs wanted all along. Albert, Williams and Brown were the Ot's they had their eye on coming in to this draft. They were actually thinking of trading back up to make sure they could get Brown.

yeah i mean there is a clear line of deliniation here...either these guys are bald faced liars or they took the guy they dearly wanted among the top 63. I mean anyone thinks Kubes and Smith lack integrity...post that. I wanna see that s%$t .

What I'm thirilled about is that Smith called the shot. He knew what teams were going to take who. And instead of panicking, he pulled the trigger on a trade and got more picks. Last time we tried that we got punked. They know what they are doing. let it go.

The Pencil Neck
04-28-2008, 12:48 AM
yeah i mean there is a clear line of deliniation here...either these guys are bald faced liars or they took the guy they dearly wanted among the top 63. I mean anyone thinks Kubes and Smith lack integrity...post that. I wanna see that s%$t .

What I'm thirilled about is that Smith called the shot. He knew what teams were going to take who. And instead of panicking, he pulled the trigger on a trade and got more picks. Last time we tried that we got punked. They know what they are doing. let it go.

You know, you and I agreeing on something is one of the signs of the Apocalypse.

Errant Hothy
04-28-2008, 03:37 PM
Y'all want a gauge on Brown's athleticism?

Brown played on the punt coverage unit and occasionally made the tackle, and this is for the specials teams master, Frank Beamer.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/10/AR2006111001461.html

Against Clemson, Brown released quickly and charged down the field as a punt fell out of the sky into the arms of C.J. Spiller, one of the faster players in the country. Brown squared him up with the sideline to his left, funeled him that way and made the tackle alone.

"He wasn't the only scared one," Brown said. "I was looking around, waiting for him to make a move. If he made one move, it could have got ugly. But I just tried to use the sideline as my friend. I knew if I had him in the open field, it wouldn't have been any kind of match."

Bubbajwp
04-28-2008, 04:22 PM
[/URL][URL="http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid823425601/bclid769464594/bctid1519707949"]MEET DUANE BROWN (http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid823425601/bclid769464594/bctid1519707949)

Seems like a clean cut, well spoken kidd. Oh ya and he's pretty big too.

mussop
04-29-2008, 02:00 AM
I dont know if this has been posted this thread is too long and Im to tired to read it all.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d807bafd0&template=with-video&confirm=true


8. Duane Brown, Virginia Tech
Height: 6-4 Weight: 315
College stats: 40 starts
Vital numbers: 5.03 40-yard dash, 24 bench reps, 4.55 short shuttle

Brown is the second-fastest rising offensive lineman in this draft as he chases Branden Albert up the board. He might be a hair short for the prototypical left tackle but he has the athleticism to get the job done. Too many players who lined up against Brown this past season have told me he was the best they faced. There are game tapes that will keep him from the first round, but O-line coaches seem to think a year of coaching and he's ready to go. Draft projection: Round 2.

LZ
04-29-2008, 04:03 PM
The pick was not really that far out in left field. I read about Brown climbing the draft charts a day or two before the draft. I'm no expert by any means, in fact I am a total moron, so if I was reading about him (along with Gosder Cherilus), then you can be damn sure the NFL teams had him on their boards and were ready to grab him.

Don't invest too much in the words of Todd McShay, Lance Zierlein, John Harris, etc...What did they all say about Limas Sweed? Devin Thomas? Not only were both of these guys bested in the draft by Coog receiver Donnie Avery, there wasn't a single wideout taken in the entire first round.

What about Joe Flacco? How many experts had him going in the middle of the first round before Brian Brohm?

Or Sam Baker? I don't recall his name being a consensus first round pick.

What does where a player goes have to do with how he is going to do? I'm sure everyone remembers that super-cool move the Cavs pulled off when they shocked everyone by drafting Tradgon Langdon with a lottery pick in the NBA draft. Nobody saw that coming but that ended up being a great pick..... wait...... no, it wasn't.

I think Brown went early but I've covered the entire topic on my blog. However, you can discount people's opinion all you want but John Harris also pointed out how Alex Gibbs 1st round tackle, George Foster, has been a bust and was even dealt from Denver. I trust in Alex Gibbs the coach but I have seen many a quality coach fail in the area of evaluation. Do we not remember Dom Capers - one of the most respected 3-4 defensive minds in history? He felt like the Texans needed Travis Johnson, had to re-sign Gary Walker and must move up for Jason Babin. Coaching and evaluation are often mutually exclusive. That's all I'm saying.

With all of this said, I'm not sure Brown would have gotten past #30.

Honoring Earl 34
04-29-2008, 04:10 PM
What does where a player goes have to do with how he is going to do? I'm sure everyone remembers that super-cool move the Cavs pulled off when they shocked everyone by drafting Tradgon Langdon with a lottery pick in the NBA draft. Nobody saw that coming but that ended up being a great pick..... wait...... no, it wasn't.

I think Brown went early but I've covered the entire topic on my blog. However, you can discount people's opinion all you want but John Harris also pointed out how Alex Gibbs 1st round tackle, George Foster, has been a bust and was even dealt from Denver. I trust in Alex Gibbs the coach but I have seen many a quality coach fail in the area of evaluation. Do we not remember Dom Capers - one of the most respected 3-4 defensive minds in history? He felt like the Texans needed Travis Johnson, had to re-sign Gary Walker and must move up for Jason Babin. Coaching and evaluation are often mutually exclusive. That's all I'm saying.

With all of this said, I'm not sure Brown would have gotten past #30.

As fans though it's more enjoyable to hope for the best ... not blindly ... like five years ... but let's get him on the field and we'll see .

Lucky
04-29-2008, 05:48 PM
I think Brown went early but I've covered the entire topic on my blog. However, you can discount people's opinion all you want but John Harris also pointed out how Alex Gibbs 1st round tackle, George Foster, has been a bust and was even dealt from Denver.
That George Foster was Alex Gibbs' selection in the 2003 draft is a pretty big assumption. One, Foster was nothing like the ZBS prototypical lineman that Gibbs favored, small & athletic. Two, Gibbs was a part-time coach at Denver in 2003. Then he left the Broncos to join the Falcons in '04. That Gibbs was instrumental in Foster's selection and development isn't well founded. And even if the Foster pick received Gibbs' blessing in '03, Gibbs has obviously gone back to his comfort zone with Duane Brown.

I'm always suspicious of the sacks allowed stat. Watching one of the networks video highlights on Duane Brown, a sack by the defender engaged by Brown was shown. The implication was that this was a sack allowed by Brown, that he had quit on the block. What they didn't say was that the QB took a 3 step drop. The ball was supposed to be out well before the pass rusher completely circled Brown and found the QB. As we've seen in the past here in Houston, sometimes the sack allowed belongs to the QB.

Regarding technique, clearly Brown will have to be broken down and built up by Gibbs and Benton. But, they would have to do the same with Ryan Clady or Chris Williams. Think about all the work that would have to be done with Branden Albert, who had a total of 2 games at LT his entire career.

If Duane Brown becomes an accomplished LT, this wouldn't be the first time that John Harris was wrong on a prospect. He was calling Reggie Bush the best player in college football as a freshman. Everyone makes mistakes. Some of us are just more willing to side with Alex Gibbs opinion than internet scouts, like John Harris or Todd McShay.

Honoring Earl 34
04-29-2008, 08:47 PM
Well it ain't exactly the NFL network but it's funny . Warning Language !

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2Jpb-YkYO1I

Texans_Chick
05-01-2008, 07:06 AM
That George Foster was Alex Gibbs' selection in the 2003 draft is a pretty big assumption. One, Foster was nothing like the ZBS prototypical lineman that Gibbs favored, small & athletic. Two, Gibbs was a part-time coach at Denver in 2003. Then he left the Broncos to join the Falcons in '04. That Gibbs was instrumental in Foster's selection and development isn't well founded. And even if the Foster pick received Gibbs' blessing in '03, Gibbs has obviously gone back to his comfort zone with Duane Brown.

I'm always suspicious of the sacks allowed stat. Watching one of the networks video highlights on Duane Brown, a sack by the defender engaged by Brown was shown. The implication was that this was a sack allowed by Brown, that he had quit on the block. What they didn't say was that the QB took a 3 step drop. The ball was supposed to be out well before the pass rusher completely circled Brown and found the QB. As we've seen in the past here in Houston, sometimes the sack allowed belongs to the QB.

Regarding technique, clearly Brown will have to be broken down and built up by Gibbs and Benton. But, they would have to do the same with Ryan Clady or Chris Williams. Think about all the work that would have to be done with Branden Albert, who had a total of 2 games at LT his entire career.

If Duane Brown becomes an accomplished LT, this wouldn't be the first time that John Harris was wrong on a prospect. He was calling Reggie Bush the best player in college football as a freshman. Everyone makes mistakes. Some of us are just more willing to side with Alex Gibbs opinion than internet scouts, like John Harris or Todd McShay.

Nice points.

Check out what Peter King said at the time (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/peter_king/news/2003/04/26/five_things_three/)with the George Foster pick:

3. I think the Broncos, in selecting 338-pound Georgia product George Foster at No. 20, have gone against the Alex Gibbs school of picking offensive tackles. Gibbs is the longtime offensive line coach, now Denver's line consultant, who always, always, always liked quick and smallish guys. I'm sure the Broncos think because Foster's a relatively lithe 5.1-in-the-40-yard-dash guy that he'll be quick enough to play on their active offensive line.

Tailgate
05-02-2008, 12:47 PM
FINALLY... some real expert opinions on Brown!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Jpb-YkYO1I

Vinny
05-02-2008, 12:50 PM
What does where a player goes have to do with how he is going to do? I just watched a show on the NFL network and the class of 1993 had 41 Pro Bowl players in it. I saw a graphic that showed that most years there were around 30 or so Pro Bowlers in every draft class...and these Pro Bowl players are in every round of the draft as well as in the undrafted FA market also. People get too caught on on draft slotting.

The Pencil Neck
05-02-2008, 01:31 PM
I just watched a show on the NFL network and the class of 1993 had 41 Pro Bowl players in it. I saw a graphic that showed that most years there were around 30 or so Pro Bowlers in every draft class...and these Pro Bowl players are in every round of the draft as well as in the undrafted FA market also. People get too caught on on draft slotting.


1983.

Second Honeymoon
05-02-2008, 01:41 PM
What does where a player goes have to do with how he is going to do? I'm sure everyone remembers that super-cool move the Cavs pulled off when they shocked everyone by drafting Tradgon Langdon with a lottery pick in the NBA draft. Nobody saw that coming but that ended up being a great pick..... wait...... no, it wasn't.

I think Brown went early but I've covered the entire topic on my blog. However, you can discount people's opinion all you want but John Harris also pointed out how Alex Gibbs 1st round tackle, George Foster, has been a bust and was even dealt from Denver. I trust in Alex Gibbs the coach but I have seen many a quality coach fail in the area of evaluation. Do we not remember Dom Capers - one of the most respected 3-4 defensive minds in history? He felt like the Texans needed Travis Johnson, had to re-sign Gary Walker and must move up for Jason Babin. Coaching and evaluation are often mutually exclusive. That's all I'm saying.

With all of this said, I'm not sure Brown would have gotten past #30.

totally agree Lance. but don't say that around here though. you may get burned alive on a stake for speaking ill of the messiah Gibbs. After all, Gibbs is the greatest OL coach in the history of football and his arrival here guarantees success. Get with the program, LZ.

Gibbs has yet to coach a down for the Texans and is inviso to the media but he is above criticism and we should be lucky to be in his presence. Oh, and how many Super Bowls has Gibbs been in without Elway? Thats right, zero.

this deal stinks of Babin. coaches pick. workout warrior. raw project. bit of a reach based on many boards.

I always thought the ZBS was a system that didn't necessitate early selections on OL and that you could get guys that 'fit' later in the draft or even in UDFA. Especially when you have such glaring weaknesses at CB, DE, OLB, and RB...but whatever, hope it works out or its gonna be really a tough pill to swallow. Good luck, Duane Brown. Hope you are kickass. You will be the ones answering the questions from the media. We all know that is beneath Gibbs. Media be damned.

Lucky
05-02-2008, 02:00 PM
this deal stinks of Babin. coaches pick. workout warrior. raw project. bit of a reach based on many boards.

I always thought the ZBS was a system that didn't necessitate early selections on OL and that you could get guys that 'fit' later in the draft or even in UDFA.
A reach on who's boards? NFL teams or draftniks?

Weren't you clamoring for Rashard Mendenhall at #18? There's also the theory that ZBS teams shouldn't take backs early. In fact, there are enough draft theories out there to criticize any position selected. Don't take safeties or interior linemen early. Linebackers can be found in the later rounds. QBs are made, not born. Doesn't matter who the Texans could have selected, someone would complain.

How about waiting to biacth about the Brown pick until he plays a NFL game? At least then, we could have a debate with something tangible. Unlike the draft gurus, I'll wait until this class gets on the field before I grade them.

Second Honeymoon
05-02-2008, 02:44 PM
A reach on who's boards? NFL teams or draftniks?

Weren't you clamoring for Rashard Mendenhall at #18? There's also the theory that ZBS teams shouldn't take backs early. In fact, there are enough draft theories out there to criticize any position selected. Don't take safeties or interior linemen early. Linebackers can be found in the later rounds. QBs are made, not born. Doesn't matter who the Texans could have selected, someone would complain.

How about waiting to biacth about the Brown pick until he plays a NFL game? At least then, we could have a debate with something tangible. Unlike the draft gurus, I'll wait until this class gets on the field before I grade them.

No I wasn't clamoring for Mendenhall. The trade down was necessary and got us another quality player in Adibi (who may be the most impactive rookie we got) At #26 I would have taken Merling or Phillips or Cason. Our defense was and still is the problem with our team. Everyone knows you cant win without a good defense...something that we have yet to attain since we dumped Glenn and added PBurnt pre-2005 2-14 season.

Lucky
05-02-2008, 03:03 PM
Our defense was and still is the problem with our team.
That was true this past season. But, building a team is like a juggling act. Smith & Kubiak have to take into account a rise in production from the young defenders like Williams, Okoye, Bennett, Diles, and the Brandons (Harrison & Mitchell). And a possible drop in production from older vets, like Salaam.

The better teams take a player a year ahead of when they'll really need him. Smith and Kubiak are acting as if they're here for the long haul, as opposed to C & C when they went for broke on the Babin & Buchanon deals.

ChampionTexan
05-02-2008, 03:09 PM
this deal stinks of Babin. coaches pick. workout warrior. raw project. bit of a reach based on many boards.




I'm a fan, and I'll admit to looking at things through rose-colored Homer glasses.

But then again, this is the off-season, and the week after the draft. The time of year where optimism (warranted or unwarranted) is acceptable. The time of year when 32 out of 32 teams are Super Bowl contenders. If it's a good pick, then I'll be happy again many times in the coming seasons. If it's a bad pick, then there'll be plenty of times down the road where criticism and frustration is more warranted.

If being a fan did nothing but cause me to ***** and moan (regardless of whether I was right), I think I'd re-consider being a fan, unless I found bitching and moaning enjoyable. If I found bitching and moaning enjoyable, I'd re-consider lots of things.

Mailman
05-02-2008, 04:00 PM
What does where a player goes have to do with how he is going to do?

Oh absolutely nothing. The only thing it affects is the size of his new house and the size of what's expected of him by the fans and media.


I think Brown went early but I've covered the entire topic on my blog. However, you can discount people's opinion all you want but John Harris also pointed out how Alex Gibbs 1st round tackle, George Foster, has been a bust and was even dealt from Denver. I trust in Alex Gibbs the coach but I have seen many a quality coach fail in the area of evaluation. Do we not remember Dom Capers - one of the most respected 3-4 defensive minds in history? He felt like the Texans needed Travis Johnson, had to re-sign Gary Walker and must move up for Jason Babin. Coaching and evaluation are often mutually exclusive. That's all I'm saying.

With all of this said, I'm not sure Brown would have gotten past #30.

My intent wasn't to wholly discount your opinion, LZ. I respect it because you obviously know your O-lines. My point was simply to put all the post-draft analysis into proper perspective, which I think some people just refuse to do. And by "some people" I mean draft pudnicks like Todd McShay, who continually make factually incorrect statements in handing out their silly draft grades.

Alex Gibbs is a highly respected coach whose reputation for O-line genius is probably a mix of six parts truth and four parts hyperbole. There is a real chance that Gibbs has overrated Duane Brown, but the Texans hired him to get the the damn line fixed so they had to get him a player to work with. If Brown was a guy they felt fit what Gibbs wants, who am I to quibble? Brown could be just another guy, or he could prove to be a long-term answer at LT. I don't know the answer yet, but I am excited to see if he can develop into a good player.

My beef is with the "reach" crowd who were baffled by the Texans' first pick because they'd either never heard of the guy or had him graded in the middle of the second or third round. The Texans desperately needed a tackle, they didn't have a second round pick, and it's a reach that they traded down to snag the last remaining OT off the board and got an extra third round pick in the process? Really? That argument never made any sense to me, and we now know for a fact that San Diego would've taken him at 27. Brown's actual draft value proved to be much higher than most experts thought, so I think the Texans deserve some credit for turning an unfavorable Saturday (no Chris Williams or Branden Albert) into a reasonably good draft.

LT? Check.
CB? Check.
RB? Check.

I have a sneaky suspicion this team is going to be pretty damn good in 2008.

Second Honeymoon
05-03-2008, 02:17 AM
the Texans didn't desparately need a tackle so bad they had to use the 1st Round irregardless of value. the OL wasn't the reason we didn't make the playoffs last year. quite the contrary. the porous defense was.

infantrycak
05-03-2008, 07:35 AM
the OL wasn't the reason we didn't make the playoffs last year. quite the contrary. the porous defense was.

True the overall performance of the O was better than the D, but there was a clear problem remaining on the O--Salaam giving up 10 sacks and who knows how many QB hurries, hits, etc. How many of those resulted in INT's, fumbles and 3rd downs not converted? Salaam did a great job for who he is supposed to be, a backup, but there were two giant problems on O and those were LT and RB--the Texans addressed both in the off-season.

Here is the other equation--overall value. Imagine the Texans use a point system and are sitting there with Cason and Brown available at 26 with Cason ranked at 86 and Brown at 80 but then they look down their board and see that what's likely in the third are a LT they have ranked at 20 and Molden who they have ranked at 60. The overall better value to the team is Brown and Molden.

dalemurphy
05-03-2008, 07:42 AM
the Texans didn't desparately need a tackle so bad they had to use the 1st Round irregardless of value. the OL wasn't the reason we didn't make the playoffs last year. quite the contrary. the porous defense was.

It sounds like you think they should have used a 1st round pick on defense "irregardless of value". What info do you have that DBrown wasn't the highest player on the board for them- certainly he was for the Chargers who picked Cason right after us.

Are you actually going to criticize the same team who chose Mario over Reggie and Vince two years ago for under-emphasizing the defense?

Let's look at the attention to defense the past three off-seasons:

2006: 1st and 2nd round- Mario and Demeco, signing of Weaver, Maddox, WRainer, Kalu, Cochran, etc...

2007: 1st, 4th, 5th round- Okoye, Bennett, Harrison, signing of Danny Clark, Fletcher, Demps, trade for M.Boulware.

2008: 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th round- Molden, Adibi, Okam, Barber, signing of J.Reeves, Bentley, CThompson


I'm not sure how anyone could honestly suggest that this team doesn't adequately weight the importance of defense. Your argument really has nothing to stand on. We know other teams also had Brown rated ahead of guys like Cason and that he wouldn't have made it out of the 1st round. Also, clearly, the team has sunk a lot of money and picks into the defense the past 3 years. So, what's your point other than an inability to admit when you are in error.

dalemurphy
05-03-2008, 07:45 AM
the Texans didn't desparately need a tackle so bad they had to use the 1st Round irregardless of value. the OL wasn't the reason we didn't make the playoffs last year. quite the contrary. the porous defense was.



You and Salaam's mother may be the only two people in the world that would say such a thing!

Specnatz
05-03-2008, 08:43 AM
the Texans didn't desparately need a tackle so bad they had to use the 1st Round irregardless of value. the OL wasn't the reason we didn't make the playoffs last year. quite the contrary. the porous defense was.

Nope we need to continue to wait on Spencer and never ever get a player whom the Team thinks can be the LT for the next decade. Makes perfect sense.

Oh and as Dale has pointed out, they are drafting players for the defense incase you have not noticed. It is called balancing what they do on both sides of the ball versus just the one side like you are doing.

b0ng
05-03-2008, 09:04 AM
Him or you? :shades:

Both I'd assume. I know I only heard what he was saying and saw that he had to look quite a ways down to see the shorter Megan-Riley.

But yes, I'd say our new LT has a propensity to look at boobies.

Mailman
05-03-2008, 09:15 AM
the Texans didn't desparately need a tackle so bad they had to use the 1st Round irregardless of value. the OL wasn't the reason we didn't make the playoffs last year. quite the contrary. the porous defense was.

Um, they took him right where he would've gone. If they don't take him at 26, the Chargers take him at 27. And even if they hadn't, Green Bay or St. Louis probably would have.

In other words, the Houston Texans got the right value out of the pick.

Thorn
05-03-2008, 09:20 AM
In other words, the Houston Texans got the right value out of the pick.


Exactly. Brown was far from being the best LT in the draft, but the drop off after him was fairly steep. The Texans made the right choice. He's gonna need some coaching to get his pass defensive skills up, and I don't seem him as our starting LT going into the season, but he will be someday. And he should be a good one.

Polo
05-03-2008, 09:27 AM
Well Kubiak has said he plans on throwing Brown into the fire...

He'll have to suck it up to get his spot taken before the first game of the season...

b0ng
05-03-2008, 09:27 AM
totally agree Lance. but don't say that around here though. you may get burned alive on a stake for speaking ill of the messiah Gibbs. After all, Gibbs is the greatest OL coach in the history of football and his arrival here guarantees success. Get with the program, LZ.



You know, I'm pretty sure you just try to say stuff to get other people to respond with statements like this. It's obvious that people are willing to discuss their points with LZ (See Lucky's very well thought out post above your absolutely crappy one) in a normal and lucid manner. You try to get people mad and embellish your opinions to the point of them being inflammatory (Or you really need some meds to help calm you down some). This is why you get shit on with most of your posts, and people call you a troll and whatnot, while LZ gets tons of respect. Just saying.

To end my thoughts on Brown. It's pretty much a week after the draft. We'll start having mini-camp news and OTA news coming soon, and I think we can only really begin to scratch the surface of what we will think of the Brown pick when that starts. I am glad the Texans got some value for trading down (Slaton, Barber), and they still picked up a guy they were targeting. Sure he went a little early (But he's not getting a 30 million dollar contract either, so it's moot), but I don't see anybody left in the 3rd rounds or later that I would think could fill the shoes of "starting LT" in the NFL.

Oh how soon we forget the pathetic drafting of Asserly.

threetoedpete
05-03-2008, 10:14 AM
I guess it comes down too what your value is on an anchor for the o-line. Now this guy has the numbers, the arm length, and the starts, and qucikness they are looking for. What he doesn't have is Joe Thomas marine boot shine.

Running backs life span is five years. O-lineman eight. One thing is a fact today that wasn't April 29th. Duane Brown wasn't gong to make it to the 79 pick........Brown is Gibbs hand picked boy. Now you can argue that there would of been better value at giving up '09 picks to jump K.C. to land Alberts. They didn't have the ammo to jump Chicago. But at what price ? sacrifice Molden and Slaton ? Ah, no.

As I posted earllier SH...you have no point. the only thing you are doing now is showing your a$$. Dice it up any way you want.. the Texans got value with the pick(s). And they didn't reach. Be gald it wasn't me I'd of spent every pick in the bag moving up for Alberts. Damn the corner back.

Second Honeymoon
05-03-2008, 11:54 AM
It sounds like you think they should have used a 1st round pick on defense "irregardless of value". What info do you have that DBrown wasn't the highest player on the board for them- certainly he was for the Chargers who picked Cason right after us.

Are you actually going to criticize the same team who chose Mario over Reggie and Vince two years ago for under-emphasizing the defense?

Let's look at the attention to defense the past three off-seasons:

2006: 1st and 2nd round- Mario and Demeco, signing of Weaver, Maddox, WRainer, Kalu, Cochran, etc...

2007: 1st, 4th, 5th round- Okoye, Bennett, Harrison, signing of Danny Clark, Fletcher, Demps, trade for M.Boulware.

2008: 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th round- Molden, Adibi, Okam, Barber, signing of J.Reeves, Bentley, CThompson


I'm not sure how anyone could honestly suggest that this team doesn't adequately weight the importance of defense. Your argument really has nothing to stand on. We know other teams also had Brown rated ahead of guys like Cason and that he wouldn't have made it out of the 1st round. Also, clearly, the team has sunk a lot of money and picks into the defense the past 3 years. So, what's your point other than an inability to admit when you are in error.

just because you use a bunch of picks on defense doesnt mean your defense is goood.

oh and you know 'certainly he was highest rated player for the Chargers'. Oh really? i have read the same report as you but that doesnt make it fact.

my point is that the defense held better value at the position we drafted IMHO.

I also did not feel we 'desparately' needed a tackle. sure we needed a tackle but i felt other needs were more pressing IMHO.

you have opinion. i have opinioin. just like you used to make excuses for carr because that was your opinion. just like you blamed everything wrong with Carr ont eh coaching staff. that was your opinion too. I had my opinion then and I have my opinion now. sorry it doesnt jive with mine and dont be surprised if 10 years from now Brown is sacking groceries and Kenny Phillips is playing in his 6th Pro Bowl....

sorry if I dont buy into the whole 'Alex Gibbs Is God' argument that seems so pervasive around here. I guess i am not as good of a fan as you.

*yawns*

Second Honeymoon
05-03-2008, 11:56 AM
True the overall performance of the O was better than the D, but there was a clear problem remaining on the O--Salaam giving up 10 sacks and who knows how many QB hurries, hits, etc. How many of those resulted in INT's, fumbles and 3rd downs not converted? Salaam did a great job for who he is supposed to be, a backup, but there were two giant problems on O and those were LT and RB--the Texans addressed both in the off-season.

Here is the other equation--overall value. Imagine the Texans use a point system and are sitting there with Cason and Brown available at 26 with Cason ranked at 86 and Brown at 80 but then they look down their board and see that what's likely in the third are a LT they have ranked at 20 and Molden who they have ranked at 60. The overall better value to the team is Brown and Molden.

I agree with you 100% icak in theory just not in practice in this example. I just feel the team panicked a bit and in hindsight could have gotten more value with Collins or Hills in the 3rd.

I just hate when we keep trying to fit square pegs into round holes. thats all.

Second Honeymoon
05-03-2008, 12:03 PM
You know, I'm pretty sure you just try to say stuff to get other people to respond with statements like this. It's obvious that people are willing to discuss their points with LZ (See Lucky's very well thought out post above your absolutely crappy one) in a normal and lucid manner. You try to get people mad and embellish your opinions to the point of them being inflammatory (Or you really need some meds to help calm you down some). This is why you get shit on with most of your posts, and people call you a troll and whatnot, while LZ gets tons of respect. Just saying.

To end my thoughts on Brown. It's pretty much a week after the draft. We'll start having mini-camp news and OTA news coming soon, and I think we can only really begin to scratch the surface of what we will think of the Brown pick when that starts. I am glad the Texans got some value for trading down (Slaton, Barber), and they still picked up a guy they were targeting. Sure he went a little early (But he's not getting a 30 million dollar contract either, so it's moot), but I don't see anybody left in the 3rd rounds or later that I would think could fill the shoes of "starting LT" in the NFL.

Oh how soon we forget the pathetic drafting of Asserly.

bong, do you really think i care what you or really anyone on this board thinks about me? i never have and i never will.

sorry that I aint one of the sheeple. never have been and never will be. you would think some of you would learn that its ok to criticize your team and its ok for others to criticize your team. you would think you would have learned that after the littany of errors this team has made in the past but every move was practically championed and praised by all of the sheeple until the whole outhouse went up in flames.

bong, your not a sheeple. you do have a legitiimate non-homer take and that is great. i have liked reading much of your stuff. just dont bash me because I am not on the 'Gibbs Is God' bandwagon before he even coaches one freaking down for us. and don't bash me for feeling they reached and panicked after the run on LTs in the early and mid 1st Round. i get 'shit on' with my posts? generally if people on this board disagree with me, that means I am right, so take that for what its worth.

how many Super Bowls has Gibbs been to without Elway? ZERO. Excuse me if I wait for him to 'Show Me' that he can make it work here. You would think based on some people's opinions of his system that defensive lines will part like Moses at the Red Sea and we will run through the playoffs like a hot knife through butter.

the same argument yall use on me about brown 'wait and see' is the same argument i use about gibbs. i aint crownin' his ass yet.

Second Honeymoon
05-03-2008, 12:08 PM
It sounds like you think they should have used a 1st round pick on defense "irregardless of value". What info do you have that DBrown wasn't the highest player on the board for them- certainly he was for the Chargers who picked Cason right after us.

Are you actually going to criticize the same team who chose Mario over Reggie and Vince two years ago for under-emphasizing the defense?

Let's look at the attention to defense the past three off-seasons:

2006: 1st and 2nd round- Mario and Demeco, signing of Weaver, Maddox, WRainer, Kalu, Cochran, etc...

2007: 1st, 4th, 5th round- Okoye, Bennett, Harrison, signing of Danny Clark, Fletcher, Demps, trade for M.Boulware.

2008: 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th round- Molden, Adibi, Okam, Barber, signing of J.Reeves, Bentley, CThompson


I'm not sure how anyone could honestly suggest that this team doesn't adequately weight the importance of defense. Your argument really has nothing to stand on. We know other teams also had Brown rated ahead of guys like Cason and that he wouldn't have made it out of the 1st round. Also, clearly, the team has sunk a lot of money and picks into the defense the past 3 years. So, what's your point other than an inability to admit when you are in error.

so in the previous two drafts we get 4 quality defenders and you act like we have devoted our life to defense in Texans land draft-wise. for schaub alone we spent two 2nd Rounders....but that doesnt support your argument now does it?

we have gone defense in the 1st Round but you can't just take that as 'mission accomplished' like Bush did in Iraq. Those players can be individually awesome but the defense still sucks as a unit. Pedigrees and draft position be damned. Production and wins is all that matters....but to ask a former Carr zealot to realize that may be asking a little much. After all, for some of you all you do is parrot what the team says and think you are somehow smart or insightful. Wrong. You probably need to grow a pair and realize that its ok to have opinions and its ok to not agree with the team. you were one of the biggest carr homers of all time so please excuse me if i discount your credibility and objectivity. i have forgotten more about football than you have ever known.

you have no credibility imho on anything texans-related and that is based on history not hyperbole or prejudice.

Mailman
05-03-2008, 12:19 PM
oh and you know 'certainly he was highest rated player for the Chargers'. Oh really? i have read the same report as you but that doesnt make it fact.


Wow, this is an astonishingly stupid comment. Let's review...

The draft tracker at nfl.com says the San Diego Chargers drafted at #27. Norv Turner [on not drafting a tackle in the first round]: “We came up one pick short.”

27-1 = 26.

Hmm, who got drafted at 26?

OH MY IT'S DUANE BROWN! To the Houston Texans!

ObsiWan
05-03-2008, 12:20 PM
FINALLY... some real expert opinions on Brown!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Jpb-YkYO1I

they made more sense than Todd McShay.

Mailman
05-03-2008, 12:24 PM
"Guys, I read the same report but that doesn't make it fact! Pay no attention to what Norv Turner says."

Unable to get their right tackle of the future in last weekend's NFL Draft, the Chargers got a backup for now.

They agreed to terms today with veteran L.J. Shelton on a two-year deal, addressing their depth problem at the position.

Shelton started 16 games at right tackle for the Dolphins in 2007. In 10 NFL seasons, he has started 125 games. He has played guard as well.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20080429-1431-shelton.html

dalemurphy
05-03-2008, 12:26 PM
so in the previous two drafts we get 4 quality defenders and you act like we have devoted our life to defense in Texans land draft-wise. for schaub alone we spent two 2nd Rounders....but that doesnt support your argument now does it?

we have gone defense in the 1st Round but you can't just take that as 'mission accomplished' like Bush did in Iraq. Those players can be individually awesome but the defense still sucks as a unit. Pedigrees and draft position be damned. Production and wins is all that matters....but to ask a former Carr zealot to realize that may be asking a little much.

you have no credibility imho on anything texans. you are still blaming capers for all the ills years later. turn page.


Why even converse with you... I'm not sure, because you have no interest in truth, only in defending your angrily entrenched position. But, here goes anyway:

1. Regarding my defense of Carr 3 years ago. I believed it made sense for the team to see if he could respond to quality coaching. I was never a Carr homer, though I was quite optimistic about his future in 2004.

2. I never argued that our defense was good last year or any other time. I simply stated that the evidence the past three off-seasons clearly shows that this organization realizes the significance of defense and hasn't been derilect in its efforts to build ours. I'm not sure how trading for Schaub defeats that argument. We aren't trying to build the 2000 Baltimore Ravens after all, nor was I arguing that we were.

3. You were the one complaining that we didn't take a defensive player in round 1 this year, even though we went defense in rounds 3-6. It was you that used the Duane Brown pick to complain that the organization doesn't get the significance of the defense. So, you were actually doing what you are errantly accusing me of. Personally, I think using 4 of the team's first 6 draft picks on the defensive side of the ball illustrates that the team does realize the defense needs help... For some reason, you do not. Could you possibly explain why that would be?

b0ng
05-03-2008, 12:39 PM
bong, do you really think i care what you or really anyone on this board thinks about me? i never have and i never will.

sorry that I aint one of the sheeple. never have been and never will be. you would think some of you would learn that its ok to criticize your team and its ok for others to criticize your team. you would think you would have learned that after the littany of errors this team has made in the past but every move was practically championed and praised by all of the sheeple until the whole outhouse went up in flames.

bong, your not a sheeple. you do have a legitiimate non-homer take and that is great. i have liked reading much of your stuff. just dont bash me because I am not on the 'Gibbs Is God' bandwagon before he even coaches one freaking down for us. and don't bash me for feeling they reached and panicked after the run on LTs in the early and mid 1st Round. i get 'shit on' with my posts? generally if people on this board disagree with me, that means I am right, so take that for what its worth.

how many Super Bowls has Gibbs been to without Elway? ZERO. Excuse me if I wait for him to 'Show Me' that he can make it work here. You would think based on some people's opinions of his system that defensive lines will part like Moses at the Red Sea and we will run through the playoffs like a hot knife through butter.

the same argument yall use on me about brown 'wait and see' is the same argument i use about gibbs. i aint crownin' his ass yet.

Wow, I just wish you would read over some of the garbage you spew from your finger tips. It's obvious that if somebody disagree's with you then "they don't get it" and "they are sheeple" forget it. You're an attention whore who will troll the ever loving piss out of a subject until all parties are just disgusted with even trying to talk to you. I'm glad I won't have to worry about your posts anymore because YOU are sheeple, and YOU are the one going along with all the jock sniffers at ESPN and NFL.com with your evaluation of the draft.

And I wouldn't even have a problem with your posting if you didn't act like such an uppity troll who knows more about football than the entirety of this board.

The bottom line is You don't know more about football than everybody, you aren't always right, and you troll more often than make valid points.

But since you don't care anyway you can just go to my ignore list.

But I like the pick more and more now that there are some posters who are giant trolls and are against it. Go Brown Go.

dalemurphy
05-03-2008, 12:43 PM
so in the previous two drafts we get 4 quality defenders and you act like we have devoted our life to defense in Texans land draft-wise. for schaub alone we spent two 2nd Rounders....but that doesnt support your argument now does it?

we have gone defense in the 1st Round but you can't just take that as 'mission accomplished' like Bush did in Iraq. Those players can be individually awesome but the defense still sucks as a unit. Pedigrees and draft position be damned. Production and wins is all that matters....but to ask a former Carr zealot to realize that may be asking a little much. After all, for some of you all you do is parrot what the team says and think you are somehow smart or insightful. Wrong. You probably need to grow a pair and realize that its ok to have opinions and its ok to not agree with the team. you were one of the biggest carr homers of all time so please excuse me if i discount your credibility and objectivity. i have forgotten more about football than you have ever known.

you have no credibility imho on anything texans-related and that is based on history not hyperbole or prejudice.


I'm not sure I see what is brave about what you do. Cynicism is a coward's defense mechanism. You, and fans like you, can't cope with dissapointment so you develop a cynical and hypercritical view because you lack the coping skills of a mature adult.

Sure, I tend to err on the optimistic side of things. You're damn right! I would hope so. I believe quite confidently that I am an objective fan. However, anyone with limited access to information will often display a bias when making his judgements known. How can one not? As for me, I'll gladly be known for giving the team whom I root for and who has given me moments of great joy the benefit of the doubt.

If that means that I'm not credible and I have no testicles, I guess I'll need to learn to wear such labels with honor.

cuppacoffee
05-03-2008, 12:50 PM
Wow, this is an astonishingly stupid comment. Let's review...

The draft tracker at nfl.com says the San Diego Chargers drafted at #27. Norv Turner [on not drafting a tackle in the first round]: “We came up one pick short.”

27-1 = 26.

Hmm, who got drafted at 26?

OH MY IT'S DUANE BROWN! To the Houston Texans!

"Guys, I read the same report but that doesn't make it fact! Pay no attention to what Norv Turner says."


Teams say a lot of things pre-draft that are not factual.

I don't see any reason for them to lie after the draft, especially since what they are saying isn't going to make the player they actually drafted feel real good.

Most teams, ours included, usually say good things about their pick.

"He's the player we targeted, really wanted, yada yada."

They don't usually say " we came up one pick short". JMHO though.

:coffee:

Second Honeymoon
05-03-2008, 01:04 PM
Wow, this is an astonishingly stupid comment. Let's review...

The draft tracker at nfl.com says the San Diego Chargers drafted at #27. Norv Turner [on not drafting a tackle in the first round]: “We came up one pick short.”

27-1 = 26.

Hmm, who got drafted at 26?

OH MY IT'S DUANE BROWN! To the Houston Texans!

its really easy for Turner to say that after the fact. i read that report as well and mentioned that in my post...but that would require some reading comprehension.

ObsiWan
05-03-2008, 01:06 PM
the Texans didn't desparately need a tackle so bad they had to use the 1st Round irregardless of value. the OL wasn't the reason we didn't make the playoffs last year. quite the contrary. the porous defense was.

I respectfully disagree.

The reason that the defense was so "porous" was turnovers.

We were 2nd worse in the league in giveaways with 38. That's more than two extra possessions for the other guys each game - quite often on our side of the 50. Very few teams have such a bad-a$$ defense that they can afford to give the ball away twice a game. I know we don't.

We cut down the turnovers maybe our defense has a chance to do a better job.
What happened to the theory that our offense could move the chains and let our defense stay fresh. Giving the ball away twice a game sure didn't help execute that strategy.

ObsiWan
05-03-2008, 01:07 PM
its really easy for Turner to say that after the fact. i read that report as well and mentioned that in my post...but that would require some reading comprehension.

nobody tips their hand before or during the draft do they?

Second Honeymoon
05-03-2008, 01:12 PM
Why even converse with you... I'm not sure, because you have no interest in truth, only in defending your angrily entrenched position. But, here goes anyway:

1. Regarding my defense of Carr 3 years ago. I believed it made sense for the team to see if he could respond to quality coaching. I was never a Carr homer, though I was quite optimistic about his future in 2004.

2. I never argued that our defense was good last year or any other time. I simply stated that the evidence the past three off-seasons clearly shows that this organization realizes the significance of defense and hasn't been derilect in its efforts to build ours. I'm not sure how trading for Schaub defeats that argument. We aren't trying to build the 2000 Baltimore Ravens after all, nor was I arguing that we were.

3. You were the one complaining that we didn't take a defensive player in round 1 this year, even though we went defense in rounds 3-6. It was you that used the Duane Brown pick to complain that the organization doesn't get the significance of the defense. So, you were actually doing what you are errantly accusing me of. Personally, I think using 4 of the team's first 6 draft picks on the defensive side of the ball illustrates that the team does realize the defense needs help... For some reason, you do not. Could you possibly explain why that would be?

1. it made no sense and anyone who wasn't homering could see that the guy was a total scrub and no amount of coddling and coaching would ever change his mechanics, intelligence, and work ethic. but the homers, such as yourself, blamed everything under the moon besides the problem because of blind allegiance to a player much less the team. this shows lack of objectivity.

2. our defense still sucks and may be worse this year. our defense needed more help than our offense IMHO.

3. my point is that other than Adibi, the defensive help we got will probably make little impact in 2008 outside of maybe Moulden as a nickel.

Second Honeymoon
05-03-2008, 01:14 PM
Wow, I just wish you would read over some of the garbage you spew from your finger tips. It's obvious that if somebody disagree's with you then "they don't get it" and "they are sheeple" forget it. You're an attention whore who will troll the ever loving piss out of a subject until all parties are just disgusted with even trying to talk to you. I'm glad I won't have to worry about your posts anymore because YOU are sheeple, and YOU are the one going along with all the jock sniffers at ESPN and NFL.com with your evaluation of the draft.

And I wouldn't even have a problem with your posting if you didn't act like such an uppity troll who knows more about football than the entirety of this board.

The bottom line is You don't know more about football than everybody, you aren't always right, and you troll more often than make valid points.

But since you don't care anyway you can just go to my ignore list.

But I like the pick more and more now that there are some posters who are giant trolls and are against it. Go Brown Go.

translation: you don't agree with the Texans so you are ignored.

if the Texans had a better track record, I may give them the benefit of the doubt, but this pick smells like the Babin pick.

Mailman
05-03-2008, 01:16 PM
its really easy for Turner to say that after the fact. i read that report as well and mentioned that in my post...but that would require some reading comprehension.

Yes, it really is easy to tell the truth after the fact. Your ego is making you cling to absurdities. You don't really think Turner just blew smoke up everyone's ass, do you? Why would he lie about it? What purpose would it serve? If the Chargers really weren't interested in drafting the last available grade A tackle in the first round, why did they immediately sign a free agent tackle?

Second Honeymoon
05-03-2008, 01:17 PM
I respectfully disagree.

The reason that the defense was so "porous" was turnovers.

We were 2nd worse in the league in giveaways with 38. That's more than two extra possessions for the other guys each game - quite often on our side of the 50. Very few teams have such a bad-a$$ defense that they can afford to give the ball away twice a game. I know we don't.

We cut down the turnovers maybe our defense has a chance to do a better job.
What happened to the theory that our offense could move the chains and let our defense stay fresh. Giving the ball away twice a game sure didn't help execute that strategy.

I respect your opinion and you make a good point in regards to takeaways putting our defense in a bad spot. I think our talent on defense has more to do with the poor performance but no doubt, the large amount of takeaways were a factor in it's bad stats and bad results.

feebleminded
05-03-2008, 01:23 PM
its really easy for Turner to say that after the fact. i read that report as well and mentioned that in my post...but that would require some reading comprehension.

Either he meant it or he didn't.

What possible motivation would Turner have in saying such a thing untruthfully?

Mailman
05-03-2008, 01:25 PM
Teams say a lot of things pre-draft that are not factual.


They don't usually say " we came up one pick short". JMHO though.

:coffee:

Exactly. It wasn't a secret to anyone that the Bolts were seeking a RT to bolster their solid line.

b0ng
05-03-2008, 01:53 PM
Exactly. It wasn't a secret to anyone that the Bolts were seeking a RT to bolster their solid line.

What?! That's absolutely preposturous that somebody else would be targeting such a HUGE, MASSIVE, OH-MY-GOD-I-HAVE-TO-KILL-MYSELF-REACH. It's obvious that Norv Turner is lying just to make sure that certain trolls look bad on their message board.

Duane Brown (Much like tons of other players in all NFL drafts) appears to have been much more liked as an LT than most media people even knew about. What. A. Shocker.

:sarcasm:

dalemurphy
05-03-2008, 02:00 PM
1. it made no sense and anyone who wasn't homering could see that the guy was a total scrub and no amount of coddling and coaching would ever change his mechanics, intelligence, and work ethic. but the homers, such as yourself, blamed everything under the moon besides the problem because of blind allegiance to a player much less the team. this shows lack of objectivity.

2. our defense still sucks and may be worse this year. our defense needed more help than our offense IMHO.

3. my point is that other than Adibi, the defensive help we got will probably make little impact in 2008 outside of maybe Moulden as a nickel.



1. Well, in 2004, at least for the first half of the season, we were winning games and he had a high QB rating, particularly in the 4th quarter. Do you recall the Minnesota game that season? Also, I never heard anything about his work ethic until things unraveled in 2005. By that point, I wanted a new staff and wanted the new staff to independantly evaluate all the players, including Carr.

2. The defense got the majority of the draft picks and the free agent attention this off-season, so it did get more help than the offense. I'm not sure why you think the defense will be worse this year- I guess that's your cynicism shining through again

3. Rookies usually struggle to make much impact. So, if we have two defensive rookies that make a positive impact on the defense, that's good.

I still don't understand how fans are still blaming this regime for decisions like the Babin trade and the PBurnt trade. That was a different staff. This staff makes very good decisions- even when it's not popular to do so... you are a UT homer right? Still bitter about the fact that we didn't take a QB in the draft that was much worse his second season that Carr was in his second season, '03.

Mailman
05-03-2008, 02:01 PM
translation: you don't agree with the Texans so you are ignored.

if the Texans had a better track record, I may give them the benefit of the doubt, but this pick smells like the Babin pick.

First, please don't play the martyr card.

Second, your Babin/Brown comparison is fundamentally flawed because you're ignoring the cost/benefit analysis behind each pick.

The Texans traded up to get Babin, and it cost them a 2nd, 3rd, and a 4th to get the deal done.

They traded down to get Brown, picking up an extra 3rd, which they used to draft Steve Slaton.

Texans Chick wrote a great blog entry recently about the damage Charley Casserly did to the franchise with his handling of mid-round picks. The Babin trade is a perfect example of what she was referring to. We all agree that the franchise has made a number of poor draft decisions since its inception, but the guys running the show now have a completely different approach. Even if Brown proves to be a reach, what did he cost? Very little, IMO.

Ole Miss Texan
05-03-2008, 02:11 PM
how many Super Bowls has Gibbs been to without Elway? ZERO. Excuse me if I wait for him to 'Show Me' that he can make it work here. You would think based on some people's opinions of his system that defensive lines will part like Moses at the Red Sea and we will run through the playoffs like a hot knife through butter.


Well, I'd like to know your opinion of other coaches around the league. Let's just take your thought process. (of course Gibbs isn't a head coach so I'm not too sure it's that fair in the 1st place)

How many Super Bowls has Bill Bilichik been too without Tom Brady?
How many Super Bowls has Tony Dungy been too without Peyton Manning?
How many Super Bowls has Coach X been to without Franchise QB Y?

You get my point.

I think a more fair assessment would be to analyze how the Offenses have faired in relation to other teams in the league while Gibbs has been with that team, don't you? More importantly, a main reason for hiring Gibbs is to get better at running the ball- Kubiak has stated countless times, 'we have to get better running the ball.' Keep in mind, Gibbs isn't here to coach the team to multiple super bowls, Kubiak is. Gibbs is here to install his system and players, and get the lines blocking correctly for better rushing and passing.

Gibbs brings a wealth of coaching and administrative experience to the Texans. In his most recent coaching position, he served as the assistant head coach/offensive line, as well as consultant, with the Atlanta Falcons from 2004-06. In 2004 the Falcons led the NFL in rushing for the first time in team history. They rushed for a team-record 2,672 yards, third highest rushing yards total in the NFL since 1990.

During the three seasons with Gibbs on staff in Atlanta, the team led the NFL in rushing with 8,157 yards. Atlanta was the only team over that three-year period to record a rushing average above five yards at 5.1.


Gibbs worked with Texans head coach Gary Kubiak, who served as the offensive coordinator in Denver, from 1995-03. During their time together, the Broncos led the NFL in rushing with 20,150 yards. Denver finished second in total offense with 54,167 yards during their nine seasons together.

He spent 13 combined seasons (1984-1987 and 1995-2003) mentoring the offensive line with the Broncos, where he established several franchise records. He played an essential role with the Broncos during their back-to-back Super Bowl wins in the late 90s. The offensive line set numerous franchise records during his second tenure with Denver, including most total yards (6,554 in 2000), most first downs (383 in 2000), most rushing yards (2,468 in 1998) and most rushing touchdowns (32 in 1998).

From 1995-2000, Gibbs’ offensive lines did not allow more than 35 sacks in a season. And during that span center Tom Nalen went to four consecutive Pro Bowls; and in 1998, three Broncos offensive linemen were nominated to the Pro Bowl for their role in winning their second consecutive Pro Bowl and blocking for NFL MVP Terrell Davis, who rushed for over 2,000 yards.


Alex Gibbs Bio (http://www.houstontexans.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=27)

b0ng
05-03-2008, 02:17 PM
Alex Gibbs Bio (http://www.houstontexans.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=27)

Don't you pollute this conversation with your stupid FACTS:splits:

b0ng
08-19-2011, 11:01 PM
I hate this pick. In fact this is the same way I felt when we passed on DJ and drafted Travis Johnson.

Wanted to bump this thread.

How do you guys feel about the pick now?

Honoring Earl 34
08-19-2011, 11:13 PM
Wanted to bump this thread.

How do you guys feel about the pick now?

A quality LT is worth a first round pick .

Carr Bombed
08-19-2011, 11:26 PM
It was a good pick. Duane Brown has out performed the majority of the tackles drafted ahead of him. He's a good player who's still developing and with his athleticism he's already dominant in the running game.

The Pencil Neck
08-19-2011, 11:39 PM
I consider this a very good pick. I think this pick frequently gets over looked and under-rated.

b0ng
08-20-2011, 12:53 AM
Brown does have his shortcomings, no lied about that. He is a pretty good LT though and I think the moves made to get him into the fold were well worth it. I definitely would not have said this after his inaugural season though, cause he was straight up bad.

SAMURAITEXAN
08-23-2011, 02:19 AM
Worth a first round pick. Alex deserves a credit in drafting Brown. Alex taught the fundamental of ZBS and Dennison took our running game to the next level.

Go Texans!!!

Blake
08-23-2011, 07:38 AM
Ill admit that I was surprised to see Duane called in the first. I thought we were targeting Chris Williams in the first and since he was drafted ahead of us we accepted the trade down to 26. I think the Texans let the run on tackles get to them, and personally feel that a 2nd trade down still would have netted them Duane Brown. But maybe the NFL teams thought of Brown as well as we did and were prepaired to take him with a later 1 or early 2.

Sometimes you just have to stay where you are and take your man rather than trade down and end up with a guy you didnt like as much.

Looking back I am proud of my early analysis post and stand by it. Alot of posters in this thread cant say the same thing. Overreact much? SWTbound?

Looking back after the 3 year rule I can safely say that I am happy with this pick as you can never have enough good linemen and Brown is a good one.

Texans34Life
08-23-2011, 09:17 AM
If we haven't heard about him in the news, then it's a good thing.

beerlover
08-23-2011, 09:22 AM
you know a couple months ago Chris Williams was projected as a 2nd rd. pick. Albert was'nt even being mentioned. Brown to people who have access to game film or followed Virginia Tech football know all about him. he is a ZBS LT prospect & Gibbs will coach him up. he has reach & hand size over Williams, is clean on & off the field. I'll trust Rick that he believes Gibbs recomendation. the Texans had to address this position, Matt Schaub has to be protected better & I hear he (Duane) has a nasty mean streak :bowser:

Guess I was wrong about being clean on & off the field :cool: seriously that had to be just a common mistake. Duane Brown has turned into a very serviceable starting caliber NFL LT. For a late first round pick that's good value & if Slaton can return to form that makes Rick Smith move even better.

Fox
08-26-2011, 04:24 PM
Great pick. Starting caliber LT for one of the league's most potent offensive teams.... Great value and provides a solution at a key position for the foreseeable future barring injury.

badboy
08-26-2011, 04:44 PM
I likee the pick also but would like to see him in a non-zbs offense along with Winston.

edo783
08-26-2011, 11:24 PM
Quietly competent, much like our whole offensive line. Good pick and good value. Probably will never be an all pro, but MIGHT make a probowl.

Honoring Earl 34
08-27-2011, 09:18 AM
Quietly competent, much like our whole offensive line. Good pick and good value. Probably will never be an all pro, but MIGHT make a probowl.

I think there were 6 LTs drafted before him . I'll bet he's doing better than most .

nero THE zero
08-27-2011, 11:23 AM
This makes me think back on and laugh at the epic John Harris meltdown about the pick.

It's actually a microcosm of John Harris in and of himself.

The Pencil Neck
08-27-2011, 02:49 PM
I think there were 6 LTs drafted before him . I'll bet he's doing better than most .

Jake Long, drafted #1 overall by the Dolphins. 3 times to the Pro Bowl. 1 time first team All Pro. Started every game since drafted.

Ryan Clady, drafted #12 overall by the Broncos. 1 Pro Bowl and 1 time first team All Pro. Started every game since drafted.

Chris Williams, drafted #14 overall by the Bears. Has had some problems. Last year started 13 games as their left guard. (I was hoping we'd get this guy; I didn't think Clady would fall to us.)

Gosder Cherilous, drafted #17 overall by the Lions. Plays RT. Has missed games every year.

Jeff Otah, drafted #19 by the Panthers. Plays RT. Has missed games every year and missed all of 2010.

Sam Baker, drafted #21 by the Falcons. Considered by some to be "the most NFL ready" but with a low ceiling. He's the Falcons starting LT.

Duane's turned out pretty good.

HJam72
08-27-2011, 03:53 PM
Not to bash him, because he's doing great, but I seem to remember Brown (as well as Cushing) having to sit out some games because of 'roid-type accusations. My point is that maybe Cushing will be fine once he gets settled this year.

b0ng
09-02-2011, 03:16 PM
Jake Long, drafted #1 overall by the Dolphins. 3 times to the Pro Bowl. 1 time first team All Pro. Started every game since drafted.

Ryan Clady, drafted #12 overall by the Broncos. 1 Pro Bowl and 1 time first team All Pro. Started every game since drafted.

Chris Williams, drafted #14 overall by the Bears. Has had some problems. Last year started 13 games as their left guard. (I was hoping we'd get this guy; I didn't think Clady would fall to us.)

Gosder Cherilous, drafted #17 overall by the Lions. Plays RT. Has missed games every year.

Jeff Otah, drafted #19 by the Panthers. Plays RT. Has missed games every year and missed all of 2010.

Sam Baker, drafted #21 by the Falcons. Considered by some to be "the most NFL ready" but with a low ceiling. He's the Falcons starting LT.

Duane's turned out pretty good.

Don't forget Brandon Alberts who has bounced from LT to guard and a couple other spots on the line. Love this pick.

YoungTexanFan
09-02-2011, 04:27 PM
He's turned into a solid enough player after a few seasons. He wasn't worth his pick when we drafted him, and that's why it's a bad pick. He was more of a developmental pick than anyone is saying. He's a solid player but it was a bad pick. You take those guys in the 3rd round or so. Patriots with Ryan Mallet, Texans with Seth Wand. Thankfully we had Alex Gibbs to teach Brown. Competent coaching helps, because Brown was no better of a prospect coming out than Seth Wand. When there is a name attached to what I've been saying for years, I hope it makes sense to some people. You don't draft Seth Wand in the first round.

Rey
09-02-2011, 04:37 PM
He's turned into a solid enough player after a few seasons. He wasn't worth his pick when we drafted him, and that's why it's a bad pick. He was more of a developmental pick than anyone is saying. He's a solid player but it was a bad pick. You take those guys in the 3rd round or so. Patriots with Ryan Mallet, Texans with Seth Wand. Thankfully we had Alex Gibbs to teach Brown. Competent coaching helps, because Brown was no better of a prospect coming out than Seth Wand. When there is a name attached to what I've been saying for years, I hope it makes sense to some people. You don't draft Seth Wand in the first round.

What?

Sounds like you're trying to justify something you may have said about the pick because your post didn't make a lot of sense.

b0ng
09-02-2011, 07:40 PM
He's turned into a solid enough player after a few seasons. He wasn't worth his pick when we drafted him, and that's why it's a bad pick. He was more of a developmental pick than anyone is saying. He's a solid player but it was a bad pick. You take those guys in the 3rd round or so. Patriots with Ryan Mallet, Texans with Seth Wand. Thankfully we had Alex Gibbs to teach Brown. Competent coaching helps, because Brown was no better of a prospect coming out than Seth Wand. When there is a name attached to what I've been saying for years, I hope it makes sense to some people. You don't draft Seth Wand in the first round.

Can't really say any of that is true unless you had access to all 32 draft boards from 2008. The fact he developed into a good tackle by year two only makes this more wrong. It's okay to admit you were wrong about a pick.

YoungTexanFan
09-03-2011, 02:30 AM
Can't really say any of that is true unless you had access to all 32 draft boards from 2008. The fact he developed into a good tackle by year two only makes this more wrong. It's okay to admit you were wrong about a pick.

I've been wrong about plenty. He's not a "good" LT. He's good enough. He's someone the Texans should have no hesitation to draft over if a LT is available.

Rey
09-03-2011, 08:12 AM
I've been wrong about plenty. He's not a "good" LT. He's good enough. He's someone the Texans should have no hesitation to draft over if a LT is available.

I disagree.

LT's play an important position and it doesn't make a lot if sense to get rid of a good young one and pray the rookie you bring in isn't s bust.

Maybe give him some good competition, but to just draft over a guy that has been as steady as brown and knows the system well and is a good run blocker would be foolish IMO.

Brown may not be dominant, but for the most part he's been a part of a line that has kept Matt from getting killed all while facing some of the leagues best pass rushers. Brown should be a staple on this line for a long time to come.

b0ng
09-03-2011, 08:57 AM
I've been wrong about plenty. He's not a "good" LT. He's good enough. He's someone the Texans should have no hesitation to draft over if a LT is available.

I'm sorry I couldn't hear you over the rushing title and passing title our respective position players have gotten the last two years.

Carr Bombed
12-28-2011, 08:12 PM
He's turned into a solid enough player after a few seasons. He wasn't worth his pick when we drafted him, and that's why it's a bad pick. He was more of a developmental pick than anyone is saying. He's a solid player but it was a bad pick. You take those guys in the 3rd round or so. Patriots with Ryan Mallet, Texans with Seth Wand. Thankfully we had Alex Gibbs to teach Brown. Competent coaching helps, because Brown was no better of a prospect coming out than Seth Wand. When there is a name attached to what I've been saying for years, I hope it makes sense to some people. You don't draft Seth Wand in the first round.

I've been wrong about plenty. He's not a "good" LT. He's good enough. He's someone the Texans should have no hesitation to draft over if a LT is available.

LMAO..

I came in here to bump this thread and forgot it was already bumped earlier in the season....was even more shocked to see you were still bashing the pick clearly after it become apparent that Duane Brown was a HELLUVA good pick.

So are you finally able to admit that you were wrong about the caliber of player Brown is and how you completely over blew his "project status". Duane Brown was never even really a project player. He was a player that needed to get his stamina up to the NFL level and a player that had to grow into the league....just like every other player that gets drafted.

Didn't you say you were going to school to be a scout? ...I wonder how that's working out. :spin:

Anyways this thread is funny and they're are some ridiculous responses in it. I loved how the great Texan online jersey thief was ready to jump off a ledge right after the pick was made. I'm sure he's posting under another alias now and wonder how he feels about the pick now. Maybe he can order me one of Brown's jerseys??? It'll be C.O.D. for sure though. :)

Heath Shuler
12-28-2011, 09:12 PM
Anyways this thread is funny and they're are some ridiculous responses in it. I loved how the great Texan online jersey thief was ready to jump off a ledge right after the pick was made. I'm sure he's posting under another alias now and wonder how he feels about the pick now. Maybe he can order me one of Brown's jerseys??? It'll be C.O.D. for sure though. :)

Man I hope not, good riddance to bad trash. What username do you think he is using?

thunderkyss
12-28-2011, 09:19 PM
... & I hear he (Duane) has a nasty mean streak :bowser:

You know.. you hear people saying, "I wouldn't want to mess with this guy, or that guy" all the time. A lot of times with athletes, it's just because they're athletes.

Last week, I think, after Jay Ratliff got into it with a reporter, Rob Ryan says, "I wouldn't want to mess with Rat."

Most of the time, I'm thinking, "screw him, he ain't that bad."

Like Ratliff.... I'd take my chances.

But Duane Brown.... in all honesty, I wouldn't want to be standing in front of him on a bad day.

kastofsna
12-29-2011, 08:59 AM
YTF, it's time to realize that "draft value" is a pretty meaningless metric. Brown is a good player, and that's all that matters now. the focus of a draft for any team is to get players who will play well for you, not to achieve some sort of perfect idealized image of "value" from those picks.

Señor Stan
12-29-2011, 10:57 AM
if he turns into a franchise LT, i'll eat my texans hat live on webcam.

In my best Judge Smails voice..."WELL...we're waiting!"

beerlover
12-29-2011, 11:06 AM
Duane Brown was Alex Gibbs gift to the Texans much like JJ Watt is via Wade Phillips. Both are old school football players, without flash & hype they give Texans production week in & week out. :clap:

Honoring Earl 34
12-29-2011, 11:35 AM
Duane Brown was Alex Gibbs gift to the Texans much like JJ Watt is via Wade Phillips. Both are old school football players, without flash & hype they give Texans production week in & week out. :clap:

I think there was 7 OTs taken in the first round in 2008 . Brown is easily the best value .

Long Mia
Alberts KC
Williams CHI
Big Dude from Pitt
Gosder Dertoit
Baker Atl
Brown Hou

Playoffs
12-29-2011, 11:37 AM
Duane Brown was Alex Gibbs gift to the Texans...Either that or he was the very last available OT with a 1st or 2nd round grade.

I remember lusting after Clady ... then Albert ... then Williams ... then just praying we got any one of the OTs. Draftniks thought Duane had a low ceiling -- Gibbs said "Don't worry, he'll be fine."

Playoffs
12-29-2011, 11:42 AM
1 1 Miami Dolphins Jake Long OT Michigan Big Ten

1 12 Denver Broncos Ryan Clady OT Boise State WAC

1 14 Chicago Bears Chris Williams OT Vanderbilt SEC

1 15 Kansas City Chiefs Branden Albert OT Virginia ACC from Detroit

1 17 Detroit Lions Gosder Cherilus OT Boston College ACC from Minnesota via Kansas City

1 19 Carolina Panthers Jeff Otah OT Pittsburgh Big East from Philadelphia

1 21 Atlanta Falcons Sam Baker OT USC Pac-10 from Washington

1 26 Houston Texans Duane Brown OT Virginia Tech ACC from Jacksonville via Baltimore

Texecutioner
12-29-2011, 11:47 AM
I've been wrong about plenty. He's not a "good" LT. He's good enough. He's someone the Texans should have no hesitation to draft over if a LT is available.

He's been a very good LT. It's alright to admit that you were wrong on that now in hind sight. I was wrong myself. I hated the pick. I'm glad that I was wrong though. We ended up getting a pretty good LT. Brown didn't need to become an elite LT that makes Pro Bowls every season for this pick to have turned out to be a really good one. Brown has been a pleasant surprise.

76Texan
12-29-2011, 01:34 PM
I used to argue long and hard with YTF about Duane Brown.
I used to argue long and hard with CB (and a few others) about Chris Myers.

I'm still arguing long and hard with ... about ...

Can't wait for 2013! :evil:

thunderkyss
12-29-2011, 02:33 PM
I used to argue long and hard with YTF about Duane Brown.
I used to argue long and hard with CB (and a few others) about Chris Myers.

I'm still arguing long and hard with ... about ...

Can't wait for 2013! :evil:

you ever do anything long & hard concerning Okoye?
:kitten:

76Texan
12-30-2011, 12:16 AM
you ever do anything long & hard concerning Okoye?
:kitten:

Nothing of the sort!

Never sing him, never hate him.

Didn't watch him in college.
Didn't have an opinion on him.

It was the year after that I started looking hard into the draft.

Somebody made an avatar and I thought it's cool to support a player.
That's about it.

A couple years ago, when CB complained about Okoye during TC, I simply said "forget about where he was drafted", "he isn't great, but he's not a bust".
No, he doesn't play up to his draft status, but he can still be a part of the defense while we continue to plug other holes.

He's still playing the same for the Bears.

mussop
12-30-2011, 04:56 PM
if he turns into a franchise LT, i'll eat my texans hat live on webcam.

Dinner time

ObsiWan
01-02-2012, 03:19 PM
Dinner time

hahahahahahahahaha

This thread is funny.
:barman:

GP
01-02-2012, 03:54 PM
I was in support of the pick.


Originally Posted by TexanSam
I don't know what the Titans are doing with their RB corps. They have Lendale White. They drafted Chris Henry from Arizona last year then this year they take Chris Johnson from ECU in the 1st round. Seems kinda dumb to me.
But I think THIS pick is like hitting the "undo" button.

My response to TexanSam:

I think THIS pick is the real deal. Nobody, not even the casual NFL fan, thought Chris Henry was a good pick.

I watched Chris Johnson play in his bowl game...he was a FORCE. It got to the point where they were faking handoffs, or faking pitches, or faking throws to Chris Johnson...just because he was doing so much damage earlier in the game...and it was opening up the whole offense.

And unlike Reggie Bush, Chris Johnson would lower his shoulder and plow a defender. He is a scrapper. He's a Marshawn Lynch-type player, but with amazing speed.

But hey...we needed RB AND OL. We chose OL. That's how it goes. I expect RB in the third.

------------------

IIRC, we did pick up a RB (Slaton) in the 3rd. This was the rumored reason why we went with Brown in the 1st round. It got us a pick, we slid down and still got Brown.

beerlover
11-29-2012, 09:37 AM
you know a couple months ago Chris Williams was projected as a 2nd rd. pick. Albert was'nt even being mentioned. Brown to people who have access to game film or followed Virginia Tech football know all about him. he is a ZBS LT prospect & Gibbs will coach him up. he has reach & hand size over Williams, is clean on & off the field. I'll trust Rick that he believes Gibbs recomendation. the Texans had to address this position, Matt Schaub has to be protected better & I hear he (Duane) has a nasty mean streak :bowser:

Oh yeah, he does :)

BullNation4Life
11-30-2012, 08:11 AM
I remember defending this pick hard. Allot of people said it was a reach, but after researching Brown and understanding why (was Gibbs the great ZBS line coach) they wanted him, I knew it was a good pick. Then when SD said they were going to take him if the Texans didn't...

b0ng
11-30-2012, 09:56 AM
This thread is now well over 4 years old and I still find the people who hated this pick funny. I don't know if Brown makes the PB in his career but he's a great left tackle and he absolutely murders defenders in the ZBS.

PFF writeup on Brown vs Detroit (https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/28/analysis-notebook-week-12-2/).

thunderkyss
11-30-2012, 10:13 AM
Mike Mayock (NFLN) is an *****. He said Houston should have waited until the 2nd round to pick up Brown. This boy is like the rest, jackin his jaw without engaging his brain.

I like how most of these guys evaluate players. I like how they break down the good the bad. Some of them you can tell think way too much of combine numbers, others, not enough.

But none of them have any idea what happens inside a war room. & even though they do a decent job of ranking players & projected players, their understanding of selecting players is academic at best.

dc_txtech
11-30-2012, 12:36 PM
this pick will haunt us. mark my words....we messed up bad. We traded back ignorantly, and for what??? really? im curious...espn hasn't covered the trade. What did we get for passing on mendenhall

Lol

We've been bitching for 6 years about a LT and we get one and everybody starts crying.

Doppelganger
11-30-2012, 01:09 PM
It's a lot more comfy on the bandwagon now with all of you apparently jumping off.

Because all of you draft experts already know Phillips, Mendenhall, Cason, and whoever else you wanted already know that Duane Brown isn't going to be as good as them. You are all ready to put Rick Smith, Alex Gibbs, and Kubiak's head on a pike because you hate this pick. You guys are lame.

Welcome to the Texans Duane Brown!

Well done!

I had Brown as a early to mid 2nd. Is it a reach? A little bit. I like him as a player and was hoping to target him in the second.

That said, I see a trend going on and that is that the CBs are falling. The RB class also looks pretty solid. Now with 2 thirds I could see us taking a 2nd round graded CB, RB or both.

I think a lot of people are looking at this move as disappointing, but I think that he will change your minds.

WOW. You really knew what you were talking about. You were right, he did change a lot of people's minds. He became the franchise LT we were hoping. I like how you off handely just project the next two Texans picks! You said they would go with a CB and RB and were right. You even nailed the order Moulden and then Slaton. While Moulden ended up being a bust, I think Slaton could have been great if used properly. VERY impressive sir! Its too bad you didn't stick around. I would have loved to hear your thoughts on the upcoming draft!

this pick will haunt us. mark my words....we messed up bad. We traded back ignorantly, and for what??? really? im curious...espn hasn't covered the trade. What did we get for passing on mendenhall

if he turns into a franchise LT, i'll eat my texans hat live on webcam.

Of course the most amusing posts came from this guy...the same guy who ripped off his so called friends. Yeah...not surprising in the least bit.

beerlover
11-30-2012, 02:20 PM
I always enjoyed working with Awtysst, he was exceptional in his talent evals.

Doppelganger
12-03-2012, 04:28 PM
I always enjoyed working with Awtysst, he was exceptional in his talent evals.

Any idea why he left or have any contact info for him?

SteveSlaton20
12-04-2012, 06:52 PM
if he turns into a franchise LT, i'll eat my texans hat live on webcam.

...so, when are we going to see this?

Doppelganger
12-06-2012, 09:38 AM
...so, when are we going to see this?

After the way he schemed, stole, and ripped off his so called friends, I seriously doubt that guy will ever show his face around here again.

Porky
12-06-2012, 05:52 PM
what a waste. pathetic. pathetic. I hate this pick... I'm even more disturbed that porky likes it. Now i know we crapped out.

And how's that working out for you. Who was right? Who's your daddy? :spit:

The Pencil Neck
12-06-2012, 08:33 PM
In other news: last year, SWTBOUND07 called the first round pick of J.J. Watt the worst first round pick in the history of the NFL and another indication that the Texans would never, ever have a winning season... EVAR... or he would swallow something that I can't actually mention on the board.


note: I have no evidence for this. Just sayin.

EllisUnit
12-06-2012, 09:37 PM
In other news: last year, SWTBOUND07 called the first round pick of J.J. Watt the worst first round pick in the history of the NFL and another indication that the Texans would never, ever have a winning season... EVAR... or he would swallow something that I can't actually mention on the board.


note: I have no evidence for this. Just sayin.

Prob why the guy hasnt come back, he must be the titans GM now :hurrah:

NitroGSXR
12-06-2012, 09:46 PM
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/423093_390839417651330_629344465_n.jpg