PDA

View Full Version : Maybe we don't draft oline


dalemurphy
04-25-2008, 05:00 PM
I've changed my priorities for this draft. I think our needs in order are:

1. pass rushing DE
2. CB
3. RB
4. Tackle
5. LB


With Spencer's return and Gibbs coming in, I can list 10 players under 30 currently on our roster who could all be above average linemen. Furthermore, a number of them could potentially play LT.

Winston*
Spencer*
Pitts*
Frye*
Butler*
Myers
Eslinger
GWhite
Studdard
Briesel

Also, while we certainly could use help at CB- particularly until DRob comes back, a pass rush would certainly help our DBfield. The combination of Bennett, Reeves, and DRob may end up being a pretty good combination of Corners.

However, on our Dline, we have nobody that can even potentially fill the speed rushing role at DE... Kalu is the closest thing we have to that- or C. Thompson, the LB from Cleveland.

So, here's hoping we can get our hands on DHarvey or maybe Groves in a trade down.

Polo
04-25-2008, 05:04 PM
I agree with you kinda...

BUT...

If there is a LT of value on the board when we pick and we take him, I will not be upset at all...

HPF Bob
04-25-2008, 05:07 PM
You mean, spend our FIFTH consecutive first-round pick on a defensive lineman while continuing to ignore the line that keeps killing our offense? :thinking:

Oh, yeah. I'm down with that...

Fox
04-25-2008, 05:12 PM
Charles Spencer is an enormous question mark (figuratively and literally). We need a LT.

kiwitexansfan
04-25-2008, 05:20 PM
You mean, spend our FIFTH consecutive first-round pick on a defensive lineman while continuing to ignore the line that keeps killing our offense? :thinking:

Oh, yeah. I'm down with that...

Our passing offense was good last year, the run game suffers from not having a good back so if you want to fix the offense draft a RB in the first.

For my money we draft defense in the first. I am feeling Rivers, Mayo, Harvey, Merling, McKelvin, Jenkins....

J-Russ
04-25-2008, 05:23 PM
Our passing offense was good last year, the run game suffers from not having a good back so if you want to fix the offense draft a RB in the first.

For my money we draft defense in the first. I am feeling Rivers, Mayo, Harvey, Merling, McKelvin, Jenkins....

LOL! tell that to Schaub.

Silver Oak
04-25-2008, 05:28 PM
I wanted O-line last year as a high pick of ours, and I want it again this year, but if the best player up there is either a LB or DE, then I would be happy with them too.

After reading what I typed, I just have to think I'm a pretty easygoing guy overall as far as Texans football goes.

J-Russ
04-25-2008, 05:32 PM
I can't stand seeing Salaam getting beat on the edge, again, in every game for another year; so please Rick, get us an LT. A talented one. That means 1st round.

Maddict5
04-25-2008, 05:35 PM
With Spencer's return and Gibbs coming in, I can list 10 players under 30 currently on our roster who could all be above average linemen. Furthermore, a number of them could [B]potentially[B] play LT.

Winston*
Spencer*
Pitts*
Frye*
Butler*
Myers
Eslinger
GWhite
Studdard
Briesel


by 'above average' do you mean 'unproven backup'... bar winston, pitts, possibly myers theres alot of ??? with each of those listed

if a premier LT (williams, albert) is there, we should take em... im warming up to groves as a possibility @ #18 if they aren't however

joedinkle
04-25-2008, 05:40 PM
im warming up to groves as a possibility @ #18 if they aren't however

oh, me too. I think he's a little small for DE, but would be a great blitzing linebacker.

stingray
04-25-2008, 05:45 PM
You mean, spend our FIFTH consecutive first-round pick on a defensive lineman while continuing to ignore the line that keeps killing our offense? :thinking:

Oh, yeah. I'm down with that...

The Texans were the sixth best team when it came to allowing sacks. The Oline actually played well last year.

Texan_Bill
04-25-2008, 05:49 PM
The Texans were the sixth best team when it came to allowing sacks. The Oline actually played well last year.

Thanks raytex... Spot on.

Is Salaam the long term answer? No... But that line only gave up 22 sacks last year. This year's draft??? Defense, defense, defense. Oh yeah, did I mention defense??

J-Russ
04-25-2008, 05:55 PM
Stats doesn't show everything, that's why you watch the game. If you had then you'll know after the first two game, Schaub was running for his life the rest of the season. Salaam isn't the long-term answer, yes, and thats why we need to find the solution now. We can't wait anymore. Waiting is going to destory Schaub and the two 2nd rounder and 48 mil we invested in him.

Ole Miss Texan
04-25-2008, 05:59 PM
The Texans were the sixth best team when it came to allowing sacks. The Oline actually played well last year.

Thank you Matt Schaub.

The thing that worries me about the OL is not the sacks they gave up (or lack thereof) but the number of times Schaub got hurried and/or hit. Schaub did an excellent job of getting rid of the ball like a QB is supposed to.

Wolf
04-25-2008, 05:59 PM
I can't stand seeing Salaam getting beat on the edge, again, in every game for another year; so please Rick, get us an LT. A talented one. That means 1st round.

I agree .if it is a third I am ok with it too. just get us some talent!
we will face Freeny ,Kearse/vandenbosch, and possibilty of jason taylor twice

Texan_Bill
04-25-2008, 06:01 PM
Stats doesn't show everything, that's why you watch the game. If you had then you'll know after the first two game, Schaub was running for his life the rest of the season. Salaam isn't the long-term answer, yes, and thats why we need to find the solution now. We can't wait anymore. Waiting is going to destory Schaub and the two 2nd rounder and 48 mil we invested in him.

Listen.... I watch every game, so you can check that condescending crap atthe door.

The two QB's (Matt and Sage) combined for nearly 4,000 yards. No problems there. The running game struggled due to Green - forcing Dayne to start more than he should...

The defense could hardly stop anyone. They couldn't get off the field. Remember the home game against the Titans last year. Quite a comeback, no? Too bad the defense couldn't make a stop with under two minutes left in the game.... Oh wait, that was on the O-line... :rolleyes:

J-Russ
04-25-2008, 06:15 PM
Listen.... I watch every game, so you can check that condescending crap atthe door.

The two QB's (Matt and Sage) combined for nearly 4,000 yards. No problems there. The running game struggled due to Green - forcing Dayne to start more than he should...

The defense could hardly stop anyone. They couldn't get off the field. Remember the home game against the Titans last year. Quite a comeback, no? Too bad the defense couldn't make a stop with under two minutes left in the game.... Oh wait, that was on the O-line... :rolleyes:

Uhh the problem was our starting QB was getting hurt. Gee who fault was that again?

Oh and the TEN game...

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=29287&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2007&seasonType=REG&week=7

look at T.O.P homie. Offense needs to control the tempo of game more and stop RELYING on defense to make stops for them. You probably going to blame the run game for that huh? Well we need a better o-line, specifically LT, not only to protect our QB and give him time in the pocket to read the field and make accurate throws; but to also open up the run game, which is key to controlling a game. and no we don't need a 1st round RB.

EDIT: and btw, most of our T.O.P in that game came in 4th quarter, aka garbage time, when we were getting blown out and TEN were chilling through the rest of the game, til the comeback of course.

Wolf
04-25-2008, 06:19 PM
I am going with SWT approach on this one..BPA on first round..why settle for maybe the 3rd or 4th best LT if there is the #1 rated LB or CB or whatever is there .. and you can't trade back... If you can trade back and gain some picks and still get their guy. it is a crapshoot though

texanfreak
04-25-2008, 06:20 PM
Thank you Matt Schaub.

The thing that worries me about the OL is not the sacks they gave up (or lack thereof) but the number of times Schaub got hurried and/or hit. Schaub did an excellent job of getting rid of the ball like a QB is supposed to.

LOL yeah Matt is the reason there were fewer sacks!!

Texan_Bill
04-25-2008, 06:29 PM
Uhh the problem was our starting QB was getting hurt. Gee who fault was that again?

Jury is still out on Schaub. He could be the next coming of Chris Chandelier. Sage's injury came on a special teams play.

Oh and the TEN game...

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=29287&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2007&seasonType=REG&week=7

look at T.O.P homie. Offense needs to control the tempo of game more and stop RELYING on defense to make stops for them. You probably going to blame the run game for that huh? Well we need a better o-line, specifically LT, not only to protect our QB and give him time in the pocket to read the field and make accurate throws; but to also open up the run game, which is key to controlling a game. and no we don't need a 1st round RB.

It doesn't matter what put us in the position to have to come back. All that matters in the game is that we DID come all the way back and we needed a stop in the worst way. WE couldn't stop them - period. We have no defensive backs that would start on any other team. Fred Bennett may turn out to be a fine corner (and I hope sooner rather than later). If Dunta makes it back next year it won't be until October or November and that's if he makes it back. Even if he does play, we don't even know if he will have the lateral movement to ever play corner again. We have needed safeties since 2002. The only spots that I feel comfortable with on our defense is DeMeco, Mario, Amobi (although he's gonna have to improve considerably) and I think (think mind you) that Travis will be fine. Other than Mario, we had no real pass rush.

Bottom Line:
We ranked 24th in Total Defense (25th in passing and 25th in rushing)
We ranked 14th in Total Offense (11th in passing and 22nd in rushing)

Thorn
04-25-2008, 06:34 PM
At the 18th spot, we get the left overs from the cream of the crop, if there are any left. I would like to see us get a top notch LT in the first round if possible. If not, I trust Rick Smith and Kubes to do the right thing, whatever that might be.

About the only thing that would make me go WTF is if they draft a WR in the 1st round. I don't think we'll draft offensive in the 1st round at all, unless it's a lineman.

Texan_Bill
04-25-2008, 06:36 PM
About the only thing that would make me go WTF is if they draft a WR in the 1st round. I don't think we'll draft offensive in the 1st round at all, unless it's a lineman.

No kidding... I would have to :gun:

J-Russ
04-25-2008, 06:50 PM
It doesn't matter what put us in the position to have to come back. All that matters in the game is that we DID come all the way back and we needed a stop in the worst way. WE couldn't stop them - period. We have no defensive backs that would start on any other team.

Uh, yeah. Thats why I pointed out the T.O.P. Our defense became tired and weak. And remember, this was before we started Fred Bennett(he also didn't play that game cause of injury), before we had Will Demps at safety, before Mario broke out and became a pass rushing terror.

Texan_Bill
04-25-2008, 07:01 PM
Uh, yeah. Thats why I pointed out the T.O.P. Our defense became tired and weak. And remember, this was before we started Fred Bennett(he also didn't play that game cause of injury), before we had Will Demps at safety, before Mario broke out and became a pass rushing terror.

They've been tired and weak for a long time now. That's not just because of time of possesion, it's because other than the few players I mentioned the defense needs to be upgraded. I will incurr a lot of mental issues and costs if I have to watch Petey Faggins start again. I don't mind Petey as a nickel, but not as a starter. Morlon Greenwood had a 'solid' year, but we need more than 'solid' from that position. Weaver can't stop the run OR get to the QB which is why he was brought here. QB's pick us apart. Manning looks surgical (I understand, he does that to everyone in the league, but we have to play him twice a year)....

Ole Miss Texan
04-25-2008, 07:01 PM
At the 18th spot, we get the left overs from the cream of the crop, if there are any left. I would like to see us get a top notch LT in the first round if possible. If not, I trust Rick Smith and Kubes to do the right thing, whatever that might be.

About the only thing that would make me go WTF is if they draft a WR in the 1st round. I don't think we'll draft offensive in the 1st round at all, unless it's a lineman.

No kidding... I would have to :gun:

I just hope it addresses a need and he's a player that's going to contribute on all downs for a long time.

I'm with yall on WR but particularly Desean Jackson... quite the playmaker but I would be very dissapointed if we took him in the 1st.

Texan_Bill
04-25-2008, 07:04 PM
I just hope it addresses a need and he's a player that's going to contribute on all downs for a long time.

I'm with yall on WR but particularly Desean Jackson... quite the playmaker but I would be very dissapointed if we took him in the 1st.

I'm all for BPA, but I don't think picking 18th is good spot to go LT...

What if Rick and Gary draft a WR, but with the intention of trading him away?? Huh?? What if those sly dogs have a trick up their sleeve??? :winky:

stingray
04-25-2008, 07:08 PM
Stats doesn't show everything, that's why you watch the game.

So what was I watching? Re-runs of Mash? I need to stop buying season tickets if I don't watch the games.

But seriously, when I did watch the games, I noticed that Shaub had decent protection, not flawless protection but decent. We had no run game mainly because we had horrible RB's. I'm not saying that we shouldn't draft a LT but we don't need to reach for one in the first round. And by reaching, I mean if williams and Albert are gone. I'm not too high on Cherilus or Otah.

dalemurphy
04-25-2008, 07:12 PM
It's also my understanding that LT plays a less significant role in the Denver/Gibbs system. I suppose that's because of the heavy amount of bootlegging.

Believe me, I'd love to get a very talented LT in the draft. However, I think we have other more pressing needs, especially when you consider that Frye, Spencer, Butler, Pitts could all possibly fill that role better than anyone we've had to date. I'm assuming that Pitts being coached by Gibbs would be better than Pitts being coached by Pendry.

Wolf
04-25-2008, 07:19 PM
They've been tired and weak for a long time now. That's not just because of time of possesion, it's because other than the few players I mentioned the defense needs to be upgraded. I will incurr a lot of mental issues and costs if I have to watch Petey Faggins start again. I don't mind Petey as a nickel, but not as a starter. Morlon Greenwood had a 'solid' year, but we need more than 'solid' from that position. Weaver can't stop the run OR get to the QB which is why he was brought here. QB's pick us apart. Manning looks surgical (I understand, he does that to everyone in the league, but we have to play him twice a year)....

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef.php
30th

and the DVOA against the WR's :headhurts:

3rd downs we gave up 1sts on 41.9% and 50% on forth downs

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/teams/stats?team=hou

kiwitexansfan
04-25-2008, 07:22 PM
Of the games last year how many times did our offense stink the joint up and we sat here and said we can't move the ball, I can't recall many times at all. Sure the offense turns the ball over but how much of that is on the OLine?

In general we put points on the board, I feel confident we can put the ball in the endzone (FG at least) any and every possesion, what I don't like is that anytime we are on defense I don't think we will get the stop and even less assured we can get a turnover.

I believe that schemes make an offense, but that talent makes a defense.
Offense is about creating advantages, defense is about reacting to the offense, therefore you need better athletes/talent on defense.

dalemurphy
04-25-2008, 07:27 PM
Of the games last year how many times did our offense stink the joint up and we sat here and said we can't move the ball, I can't recall many times at all. Sure the offense turns the ball over but how much of that is on the OLine?

In general we put points on the board, I feel confident we can put the ball in the endzone (FG at least) any and every possesion, what I don't like is that anytime we are on defense I don't think we will get the stop and even less assured we can get a turnover.

I believe that schemes make an offense, but that talent makes a defense.
Offense is about creating advantages, defense is about reacting to the offense, therefore you need better athletes/talent on defense.


We'll be a top 10 offense this year if we have a threat at RB- either a healthy Chris Brown or Ahman Green, even Chris Taylor, not to mention any of about 15 rookies that we could get in this RB heavy draft. And, the running game will obviously help protect the QBs and improve pass protection.

BSofA04
04-25-2008, 07:41 PM
:gun:

Without reaching, if there's a LT on the board ready to be picked (*cough* Chris Williams *cough*) I'd be very upset if we passed him up. Every interview with McNair and Kubiak indicated a need for a LT of the future, we're not counting on Spencer, and Salaam is getting old. Not picking a LT would be a serious and crippling mistake IMO.

ATXtexanfan
04-25-2008, 07:52 PM
D-e-f-e-n-s-e

Brando
04-25-2008, 08:25 PM
The key for the offense to improve is the running game. If we had a running game last year that would have taken the pressure off of Schaub. That would have opened up the passing game where the defense isn't concentrating on the pass. It would have spread the field so to speak. Our OL improved last year by getting a QB that actually had pocket presence, could get the ball out of his hands in time to avoid sacks,etc. If we can get a running back that does not run over his own blockers and one that stays healthy our line will look much better like it did when we got Schaub.

That being said if BPA-OL is available, I would have no problem going that direction. I still think we need more help on the defensive side of the ball, i.e. CB, DE.

b0ng
04-25-2008, 08:27 PM
D-e-f-e-n-s-e

And really, I think the only reason they go that way is because all the LT's will be gone by the 18th.

I don't know about a pass rusher, I'm willing to bet that the 18th pick is a defensive player though (My guess is it'll be an LB).

nunusguy
04-25-2008, 08:51 PM
It's also my understanding that LT plays a less significant role in the Denver/Gibbs system. I suppose that's because of the heavy amount of bootlegging.

Believe me, I'd love to get a very talented LT in the draft. However, I think we have other more pressing needs, especially when you consider that Frye, Spencer, Butler, Pitts could all possibly fill that role better than anyone we've had to date. I'm assuming that Pitts being coached by Gibbs would be better than Pitts being coached by Pendry.

Schaub is not that athletic, that quick on his feet so bootlegging is not something he can resort to as much as a Plumer or maybe an Elway.
But your recollection of Frye, Butler, & even Pitts (forget Spencer, I'm sure the Texans aren't counting on him at this time) is instructive. Who's to think that Gibbs doesn't look at one of those guys as more of an answer to LT than anybody else we can realistically expect to get in this weekends Draft.
And all this talk about drafting a LT in the first round may be a smokescreen by the Texans - Smith/Kubiak may be much more inclined to Draft another
play for his D front 7.

El Tejano
04-25-2008, 09:00 PM
With Spencer's return and Gibbs coming in, I can list 10 players under 30 currently on our roster who could all be above average linemen. Furthermore, a number of them could potentially play LT.




This was Caper's and Casserly's view too. I don't mind if we don't go LT in the 1st but it would definetly have to be addressed in the next round we pick. However if who we want is there at #18, we should do what this club has been needing to do for years now.

Look, we haven't taken the sexy picks by going DL but now we are becoming a force there. The team that controls the LOS is the team that can win week in and out. We've addressed the DL, now it is time for the OL. We have too much money invested in Matt Schaub.

Wolf
04-25-2008, 09:02 PM
Schaub is not that athletic, that quick on his feet so bootlegging is not something he can resort to as much as a Plumer or maybe an Elway.


I had that youtube flashback of Sage doing the bootleg for a score, it seemed like an eternity for him to go roughly 12 yards LOL

Thorn
04-25-2008, 09:05 PM
If we are lucky enough (and stranger things have happened) and a premium LT falls to 18, I would be quite shocked if we didn't take him. But if that isn't the case, I look for a trade down or the best defensive player avaliable.

CloakNNNdagger
04-25-2008, 09:13 PM
If we have Chris Williams available, you go for him. And BTW, our Oline was certainly not bad last year. Schaub had 16 sacks, thanks to the Oline and Schaub's ability to scramble........in the right direction. But, also look at Rosenfels. He had 6 sacks, thanks to the Oline and Rosenfels' (supposedly less mobile, but more wiley) true "pocket presence" being able to many times in one step into the pocket avoid the rush. Indeed, we tend to depreciate the "apparition of the past's" (QB not to be mentioned) role, who would either put many miles on the pedometer running around in circles, accidently Super Glue his hands to the ball, or not even see his "adversaries," or if he did, greet them at the door.

Wolf
04-25-2008, 09:22 PM
vinny's quote got me thinking on a thread from www.inthebullseye.com

I'm thinking Bennett eventually becomes your nickel back with two first round talents as your starters. If Bennett proves he can start with Dunta and (fill in the blank)...well, thats a good problem. Much better than rolling into the season with Bennett as your best cornerback and hoping he is a NFL starter long term with Kukla Fran and Ollie behind him with Dunta on the bench hoping to be what he used to be after a massive surgery.



whole discussion so you can see the "flow" of how the topic progressed
http://www.inthebullseye.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2

Wolf
04-25-2008, 09:37 PM
I wonder if there is going to be a run early on LT's with teams that have slight question marks there. And teams that do put more emphasis on pass rushers

Esp after the Superbowl when the Giants flat out got after the Patriots and showed what can happen when you can get to the Qb ,esp with the likes of Brady...and the Patriots tackles couldn't do anything to stop them

TexansSeminole
04-25-2008, 09:38 PM
They've been tired and weak for a long time now. That's not just because of time of possesion, it's because other than the few players I mentioned the defense needs to be upgraded. I will incurr a lot of mental issues and costs if I have to watch Petey Faggins start again. I don't mind Petey as a nickel, but not as a starter. Morlon Greenwood had a 'solid' year, but we need more than 'solid' from that position. Weaver can't stop the run OR get to the QB which is why he was brought here. QB's pick us apart. Manning looks surgical (I understand, he does that to everyone in the league, but we have to play him twice a year)....

I agree. We really need to grab a lock down guy at corner in this draft. IN all honesty I don't see very many guys in the 4th or 5th round that will be able to stick with WR's in our division, so we will have to be smart about how we approach that need in this draft. There could be a couple of guys who drop to these rounds but you really can't bank on it.

I'd like to see Petey get replaced at nickel in this draft. He was playing nickel in that Tennessee game you were talking about. If we take a first round CB we could have a solid 3 cornerbacks for a long time. I'm banking on Mike Jenkins.

Wolf
04-25-2008, 09:39 PM
I wonder if there is going to be a run early on LT's with teams that have slight question marks there. And teams that have adequate tackles put more emphasis on pass rushers

Esp after the Superbowl when the Giants flat out got after the Patriots and showed what can happen when you can get to the Qb ,esp with the likes of Brady...and the Patriots tackles couldn't do anything to stop them


hence maybe a top CB will be sliding ?

many different scenarios too bad I will be working all through the draft