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View Full Version : Cowgirls/Tacks agree to deal RE: Pacman


TheRealJoker
04-23-2008, 05:52 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3364138

If he plays next season it'll be a 4th round pick and an additional as well if he plays a certain amount.

If he is not reinstated next season its an undisclosed 09 draft pick.

GuerillaBlack
04-23-2008, 05:56 PM
Typical Cowboys picking up thugs. At least he is a good player.

Texan_Bill
04-23-2008, 06:00 PM
So it seems the infamous 'White House' in Dallas will have a new resident. Perfect fit.

HoustonFrog
04-23-2008, 06:57 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3364138

If he plays next season it'll be a 4th round pick and an additional as well if he plays a certain amount.

If he is not reinstated next season its an undisclosed 09 draft pick.

Great deal. I don't like having thugs but the NFL is littered with all kinds. Basically you make it a heavily incentive laden deal and if it works you get a stuf for cheap and if it doesn't it is no big deal. The guys on 1560 all seemed to like it without the typical bashing.

Dread-Head
04-23-2008, 07:20 PM
(open letter to every rabid, bloodthirsty special teams player of the the OTHER 15 teams which comprise the National Football Conference:

Gentlemen:
Will one of you overpaid, psychotic, conceited, prima donna, raw meat eatin', skank impregnatin', steroid poppin', paid Nike shoe wearin', autograph sellin', bone crunchin' muff-huggas PLEASE put this sum-byatch in a body cast on a kick off return!? I for one am sick of hearing about him, his thuggish entouráge and his violent @ss in general. Obliterate his ribcage on a runback will ya?

Respectfully,

Sir Richard Kensington III
aka Dread Head.

P.S. Duck Fallas...QUACK!

DiehardChris
04-23-2008, 07:25 PM
My thoughts, and some photoshop fun here (http://www.houstondiehards.com/?p=372).

El Tejano
04-23-2008, 08:40 PM
Thank you Cowboys for removing a really good player from our division.

Texaninlild
04-23-2008, 08:43 PM
Thanks Cowgirls for bringing another thug into the city I live in. The new stadium should have razor wire around the field to make these guys feel more at home!

Oh..and stripper poles in the end zone..

StarStruck
04-23-2008, 09:39 PM
Welcome extended to Pacman. I trust the opportunity will work well for him and our team.

Showtime100
04-23-2008, 10:19 PM
Great deal. I don't like having thugs but the NFL is littered with all kinds.

I have never understood that kind of thinking. What's more, the Cowboys have been leading the way in the thug department for years. I guess along come the Bengals and you guys feel the need to step it up.

StarStruck
04-23-2008, 10:42 PM
I have never understood that kind of thinking. What's more, the Cowboys have been leading the way in the thug department for years. I guess along come the Bengals and you guys feel the need to step it up.

I think that Jerry has a lot of compassion when it comes to giving players chances or second chances. Hopefully, what he gets in return will not betray his trust.

HoustonFrog
04-23-2008, 10:44 PM
I have never understood that kind of thinking. What's more, the Cowboys have been leading the way in the thug department for years. I guess along come the Bengals and you guys feel the need to step it up.

See this is where I get peeved. You guys are so full of s#$%. When the Cowboys had problems it was 15 years ago. 15 YEARS. The Texans have had more DWIs and problems than the Cowboys since then. You let a pathetic hatred blind you to the reality of the NFL..most teams have bad seeds. Some a ton. Name Cowboy players from the past decade that were constant trouble?They lead no way. TO has never been arrested. People just don't like him. I don't agree with what PacMan does but if they give him incentives and he turns things around, then it is a great deal. If not, they let him go. The Vikings, the Bengals and a ton of others have had a lot more arrests.

Let me run some stats real quick. In 2006 the Charger team had 3 people out there who ranged from selling cough syrup, to being shot by an off duty officer to a DEA probe. The Vikings led the league in arrests in 2003, 2004 and 2005. Denver had an average of 1-2 arrests every year from 2000-2006. In 2008 the Bears had 5 arrests...Tank twice, The Chargers 6, The Bengals 10...the Cowboys 1....a guy who came from the Texans and didn't even really play..Marcus Coleman.

People need to pull their head out. I don't like what PacMan does and don't condone stupidity. But making a good deal that can either be great or go pffft doesn't bother me. Either the guy turns his life around or he is gone. I'll give him this chance. If the Cowboys let him be a thug, then I'll get peeved. For right now I'll see if his last chance was worth it. Charles Haley was a mental case and did well in Dallas. Tank didn't get in trouble last year. I am just not going to pretend that the NFL doesn't have their good and bad.

bah007
04-23-2008, 10:51 PM
See this is where I get peeved. You guys are so full of s#$%. When the Cowboys had problems it was 15 years ago. 15 YEARS. The Texans have had more DWIs and problems than the Cowboys since then. You let a pathetic hatred blind you to the reality of the NFL..most teams have bad seeds. Some a ton. Name Cowboy players from the past decade that were constant trouble?They lead no way. TO has never been arrested. People just don't like him. I don't agree with what PacMan does but if they give him incentives and he turns things around, then it is a great deal. If not, they let him go. The Vikings, the Bengals and a ton of others have had a lot more arrests.

Let me run some stats real quick. In 2006 the Charger team had 3 people out there who ranged from selling cough syrup, to being shot by an off duty officer to a DEA probe. The Vikings led the league in arrests in 2003, 2004 and 2005. Denver had an average of 1-2 arrests every year from 2000-2006. In 2008 the Bears had 5 arrests...Tank twice, The Chargers 6, The Bengals 10...the Cowboys 1....a guy who came from the Texans and didn't even really play..Marcus Coleman.

People need to pull their head out. I don't like what PacMan does and don't condone stupidity. But making a good deal that can either be great or go pffft doesn't bother me. Either the guy turns his life around or he is gone. I'll give him this chance. If the Cowboys let him be a thug, then I'll get peeved. For right now I'll see if his last chance was worth it. Charles Haley was a mental case and did well in Dallas. Tank didn't get in trouble last year. I am just not going to pretend that the NFL doesn't have their good and bad.

Facts don't fly around here where the Cowboys are concerned, buddy.

Either you hate the Cowboys or you are not a "real" Houston Texans fan. Trust me, I've been reminded plenty of times.

Showtime100
04-23-2008, 10:59 PM
See this is where I get peeved. You guys are so full of s#$%. When the Cowboys had problems it was 15 years ago. 15 YEARS. The Texans have had more DWIs and problems than the Cowboys since then. You let a pathetic hatred blind you to the reality of the NFL..most teams have bad seeds. Some a ton. Name Cowboy players from the past decade that were constant trouble?They lead no way. TO has never been arrested. People just don't like him. I don't agree with what PacMan does but if they give him incentives and he turns things around, then it is a great deal. If not, they let him go. The Vikings, the Bengals and a ton of others have had a lot more arrests.

Let me run some stats real quick. In 2006 the Charger team had 3 people out there who ranged from selling cough syrup, to being shot by an off duty officer to a DEA probe. The Vikings led the league in arrests in 2003, 2004 and 2005. Denver had an average of 1-2 arrests every year from 2000-2006. In 2008 the Bears had 5 arrests...Tank twice, The Chargers 6, The Bengals 10...the Cowboys 1....a guy who came from the Texans and didn't even really play..Marcus Coleman.

People need to pull their head out. I don't like what PacMan does and don't condone stupidity. But making a good deal that can either be great or go pffft doesn't bother me. Either the guy turns his life around or he is gone. I'll give him this chance. If the Cowboys let him be a thug, then I'll get peeved. For right now I'll see if his last chance was worth it. Charles Haley was a mental case and did well in Dallas. Tank didn't get in trouble last year. I am just not going to pretend that the NFL doesn't have their good and bad.

The text in bold and the rest was in response to my post, so I'll assume you were talking to me and that was unnecessary, I think more of you than to say that to me and that's the only reason I won't hit the red button for the second time ever since I've been on this board.

I'm 44. Fifteen years ago was yesterday. There is no statute of limitations here, but if I'm wrong the Cowboy faithful would know about that sort of thing. Getting caught with cocaine time and time again. Beating wives up, getting popped with tons of weed twice in rapid fire > to DWI's where no one was hurt and, I could be wrong here, if so, I'll take it back, were not repeated.

You are a Texan fan, but a Cowboy fan as well, if you want to defend the Cowboys, fine. Just get some apparently-needed thicker skin if you choose to do so on a Texan board. :texflag:

Goldensilence
04-23-2008, 10:59 PM
Not a bad deal if he gets re-instated. At least in Tenn he chose human pornographic shops instead of what the locals use; the nearest barnyard.

Personally I am eh on the cowboys they don't really bother me much. I haven't had too many bad fans up here in Dallas but then again I haven't been around here in fall with my gear on.

Sides...come on seriously why waste your energy hating the cowboys when there is a Bud Adams owned organization in Tennessee much more deserving of ire.

Showtime100
04-23-2008, 11:01 PM
Not a bad deal if he gets re-instated. At least in Tenn he chose human pornographic shops instead of what the locals use; the nearest barnyard.

Personally I am eh on the cowboys they don't really bother me much. I haven't had too many bad fans up here in Dallas but then again I haven't been around here in fall with my gear on.

Sides...come on seriously why waste your energy hating the cowboys when there is a Bud Adams owned organization in Tennessee much more deserving of ire.

I can do both. I used to have it in for the entire AFC Central + Dallas. :D

Second Honeymoon
04-23-2008, 11:14 PM
Facts don't fly around here where the Cowboys are concerned, buddy.

Either you hate the Cowboys or you are not a "real" Houston Texans fan. Trust me, I've been reminded plenty of times.

totally agree man. im a texan more than a houstonian any day of the week. i don't hate on the cowboys but this Pac Man move just plays into the hands of the haters. i hate to say it but facts be damned, Pac Man is the poster boy for bad boy behavior and anti-social behavior. this is a big risk not so much for the draft pick, which was nominal all things considered, but the risk to your locker room and franchise is pretty much unprecedented. Jones has been rewarded with giving players second chances in the past but the stakes have never been higher. Pac Man is a Grade A Jackass and to put faith in him is a dubious proposition at best. PacMan. Tank Johnson. Who's next? Tony Montana?

grats to JJ if it works out though, because he may be celebrating a Super Bowl championship if it does. Pac Man has a buttload of talent and with him and Newman at CB, that is a pretty vaunted starting CB duo. Then you factor in his ST skills, this could be the move that puts them over the top..........or the move that embarrasses the franchise once again.

Texaninlild
04-23-2008, 11:16 PM
I think that Jerry has a lot of compassion when it comes to giving players chances or second chances. Hopefully, what he gets in return will not betray his trust.

See this is where I get peeved. You guys are so full of s#$%. When the Cowboys had problems it was 15 years ago. 15 YEARS. The Texans have had more DWIs and problems than the Cowboys since then. You let a pathetic hatred blind you to the reality of the NFL..most teams have bad seeds. Some a ton. Name Cowboy players from the past decade that were constant trouble?They lead no way. TO has never been arrested. People just don't like him. I don't agree with what PacMan does but if they give him incentives and he turns things around, then it is a great deal. If not, they let him go. The Vikings, the Bengals and a ton of others have had a lot more arrests.

Let me run some stats real quick. In 2006 the Charger team had 3 people out there who ranged from selling cough syrup, to being shot by an off duty officer to a DEA probe. The Vikings led the league in arrests in 2003, 2004 and 2005. Denver had an average of 1-2 arrests every year from 2000-2006. In 2008 the Bears had 5 arrests...Tank twice, The Chargers 6, The Bengals 10...the Cowboys 1....a guy who came from the Texans and didn't even really play..Marcus Coleman.

People need to pull their head out. I don't like what PacMan does and don't condone stupidity. But making a good deal that can either be great or go pffft doesn't bother me. Either the guy turns his life around or he is gone. I'll give him this chance. If the Cowboys let him be a thug, then I'll get peeved. For right now I'll see if his last chance was worth it. Charles Haley was a mental case and did well in Dallas. Tank didn't get in trouble last year. I am just not going to pretend that the NFL doesn't have their good and bad.

Jerry has a lot of compassion for players..and that is why he gives them a chance?....:spit:
I am sure the good samaritan Jerry would be giving a third string guy a 10th chance to make it in this league too! Jerry does not give a crap about character. He never has.

Houston Frog..did you forget your friend Q, the crack head quarterback?(2004) Although a former Cowpie, your boy Irvin made news with a little crack pipe in the car during his first chance at the hall.(2005) I know all good Christians carry crack pipes. He is born again..right? Perhaps you forgot about Dwayne Goodrich and his two counts of vehicular manslaughter in 2003. Nate Newton in 2001 was toting around over 200 lbs of weed. All good folks in more 'recent' years to wear the cowboy star and the orange jumpsuit. In fact all orange jumpsuits come standard with the star here in lil d. My math is not real good, but that sure seems like less than 15 years. I thought you were an attorney Frog..do your homework..you are better than that.

Wolf
04-23-2008, 11:26 PM
If I weren't so senile now I could have had Pacman for that low price

signed
Al Davis

rollinstone18
04-23-2008, 11:29 PM
Thank you Cowboys for removing a really good player from our division.

my thoughts as well.

Wolf
04-23-2008, 11:31 PM
Flaming Meat ball fans are mainly happy..

saying no cap hit and 500,000 will be donated to charity by pac

a few aren't happy

LOL on this

Mike Williams will replace Pacman as our true 1st round pick of 2005. He will emerge as a star in 2008.


http://forums.titansonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35609&page=3

Texaninlild
04-23-2008, 11:36 PM
Cowboy fan's tribute to Pacman.

http://6.content.collegehumor.com/d1/ch6/7/f/collegehumor.f9d87bd7c3526aa128e1dacf10465896.jpg

nunusguy
04-24-2008, 07:09 AM
I'm still surprised the FtWorth/Arlington Cowboys are the only team that took
a chance on Pacman ? In good playing form he is better than any CB in this years Draft and atleast 3, maybe 4 or more are gonna be taken in the first round and all the Cowboys have invested in Pacman at this point is a 4th round pick. And I understand even that is conditional ?

WWJD
04-24-2008, 07:41 AM
If it works out fine..it's low risk for the Cowboys.

Still thinking early rounds though they will draft another corner.

HoustonFrog
04-24-2008, 08:03 AM
The text in bold and the rest was in response to my post, so I'll assume you were talking to me and that was unnecessary, I think more of you than to say that to me and that's the only reason I won't hit the red button for the second time ever since I've been on this board.

I'm 44. Fifteen years ago was yesterday. There is no statute of limitations here, but if I'm wrong the Cowboy faithful would know about that sort of thing. Getting caught with cocaine time and time again. Beating wives up, getting popped with tons of weed twice in rapid fire > to DWI's where no one was hurt and, I could be wrong here, if so, I'll take it back, were not repeated.

You are a Texan fan, but a Cowboy fan as well, if you want to defend the Cowboys, fine. Just get some apparently-needed thicker skin if you choose to do so on a Texan board. :texflag:

Apologies for the cuss word but not the message about the team. I respect you a ton. Problem is that the message wasn't just aimed at you. "Guys" was towards a full faithful who ignore the facts and pin everything evil on the Cowboys. I've respectfully done my part around here considering where I grew up and I know they aren't popular but the inane stuff I read just has to be stopped every once in awhile and reality needs to set in. Sorry it offended you but I think that, as a whole, it is true. I suggested this another time but if Texans fans don't want to start being labeled as bad as what they complain about then they shouldn't just throw out the hate without the right info.

HoustonFrog
04-24-2008, 08:05 AM
Jerry has a lot of compassion for players..and that is why he gives them a chance?....:spit:
I am sure the good samaritan Jerry would be giving a third string guy a 10th chance to make it in this league too! Jerry does not give a crap about character. He never has.

Houston Frog..did you forget your friend Q, the crack head quarterback?(2004) Although a former Cowpie, your boy Irvin made news with a little crack pipe in the car during his first chance at the hall.(2005) I know all good Christians carry crack pipes. He is born again..right? Perhaps you forgot about Dwayne Goodrich and his two counts of vehicular manslaughter in 2003. Nate Newton in 2001 was toting around over 200 lbs of weed. All good folks in more 'recent' years to wear the cowboy star and the orange jumpsuit. In fact all orange jumpsuits come standard with the star here in lil d. My math is not real good, but that sure seems like less than 15 years. I thought you were an attorney Frog..do your homework..you are better than that.

So even if you are off the team you count?I didn't know Jerry had to babysit them post career. That's rich. So let me guess if Cowboy players were being "unfairly" tasered on the side of the road and getting arrested for DWIs would they be excusable or that is only for Texan players?Look at the stats of the teams I put on here. Why don't you liter the Bronco or Viking or one of 20 other teams boards that have had more issues and more arrests....that's right, they aren't the Cowboys.

Texaninlild
04-24-2008, 08:21 AM
So even if you are off the team you count?I didn't know Jerry had to babysit them post career. That's rich. So let me guess if Cowboy players were being "unfairly" tasered on the side of the road and getting arrested for DWIs would they be excusable or that is only for Texan players?Look at the stats of the teams I put on here. Why don't you liter the Bronco or Viking or one of 20 other teams boards that have had more issues and more arrests....that's right, they aren't the Cowboys.

Well he did add the guy to the ring of honor around that time also.

I thought this was the Texan's message board? Not the Cowpie lovers board. Perhaps you can throw some Pacman love around on http://cowboyszone.com. I am sure they will be more receptive.

HoustonFrog
04-24-2008, 08:30 AM
Well he did add the guy to the ring of honor around that time also.

I thought this was the Texan's message board? Not the Cowpie lovers board. Perhaps you can throw some Pacman love around on http://cowboyszone.com. I am sure they will be more receptive.

I think you better step back a little. I've been here a long time and have been a true supporter of the Texans and have treated people with respect. I grew up for 23 years in Ft. Worth and grew up a Cowboy fan. I just have a little more mature way of supporting both and not being bandwagon. You can check that attitude elsewhere. If someone is going to misstate facts then someone needs to call them on it. Respectfully grow up about it. The onl;y time i talk Cowboys here is if this weak stuff comes up or if I have a draft or game opinion. I don't go around looking for Cowboy talk.

Texan_Bill
04-24-2008, 08:39 AM
See this is where I get peeved. You guys are so full of s#$%. When the Cowboys had problems it was 15 years ago. 15 YEARS. The Texans have had more DWIs and problems than the Cowboys since then. You let a pathetic hatred blind you to the reality of the NFL..most teams have bad seeds. Some a ton. Name Cowboy players from the past decade that were constant trouble?They lead no way. TO has never been arrested. People just don't like him. I don't agree with what PacMan does but if they give him incentives and he turns things around, then it is a great deal. If not, they let him go. The Vikings, the Bengals and a ton of others have had a lot more arrests.

Let me run some stats real quick. In 2006 the Charger team had 3 people out there who ranged from selling cough syrup, to being shot by an off duty officer to a DEA probe. The Vikings led the league in arrests in 2003, 2004 and 2005. Denver had an average of 1-2 arrests every year from 2000-2006. In 2008 the Bears had 5 arrests...Tank twice, The Chargers 6, The Bengals 10...the Cowboys 1....a guy who came from the Texans and didn't even really play..Marcus Coleman.

People need to pull their head out. I don't like what PacMan does and don't condone stupidity. But making a good deal that can either be great or go pffft doesn't bother me. Either the guy turns his life around or he is gone. I'll give him this chance. If the Cowboys let him be a thug, then I'll get peeved. For right now I'll see if his last chance was worth it. Charles Haley was a mental case and did well in Dallas. Tank didn't get in trouble last year. I am just not going to pretend that the NFL doesn't have their good and bad.

Arrested within the last decade?? Dwayne Goodrich, Marcus Coleman, Nate Newton, Michael Irvin, Harvey Martin (? Can't remember exactly what year),

Frog (as you elude to), Marcus Coleman cancels out. He had a DWI as a Texan and a Cowboy BUT since he is a Dallas native, y'all can own it...

As far as I'm concerned, I don't care if the transgressions were last year or 20 years ago when it involves a member of the Cowboys snorting cocaine on the sidelines during a Super Bowl...

BTW, I'm pretty sure the way Jerah pushed coach Landry out of the door was criminal...

Anyway, I wouldn't go as far as to say the Cowboys are any worse than the Bengals or Raiders, but they certainly have a checkered past....

HoustonFrog
04-24-2008, 09:02 AM
Arrested within the last decade?? Dwayne Goodrich, Marcus Coleman, Nate Newton, Michael Irvin, Harvey Martin (? Can't remember exactly what year),

Frog (as you elude to), Marcus Coleman cancels out. He had a DWI as a Texan and a Cowboy BUT since he is a Dallas native, y'all can own it...

As far as I'm concerned, I don't care if the transgressions were last year or 20 years ago when it involves a member of the Cowboys snorting cocaine on the sidelines during a Super Bowl...

BTW, I'm pretty sure the way Jerah pushed coach Landry out of the door was criminal...

Anyway, I wouldn't go as far as to say the Cowboys are any worse than the Bengals or Raiders, but they certainly have a checkered past....

And as I said Newton and Irvin were gone. They don't babysit players. So as far as team transgressions go they are in the minority vs the stats I put up earlier regarding the Broncos, etc, etc. You can look it all up on line. I know since the 70s, when I have watched, they have had people off an on. But so did the roided up SB decade Pitt team. So did many others like the old Browns who had dozens of players arrested. People just don't pay attention because they weren't the Cowboys. The Pats, team class brings on police running over Moss and has other guys. People just need to stop turning the other way. The last arrest I heard of was here on this team.

http://www.forbes.com/leadership/2007/08/13/sports-athletes-revenues-lead-cx_mw_0813nfl.html

Teams' revenues did fluctuate on a year by year basis, but independently from arrests, our data show. Take the Minnesota Vikings, who led the league in arrests for the 2003, 2004 and 2005 seasons, culminating in the infamous sex-boat scandal of 2005. The team's revenue grew 1% below the league average in 2003, 1% above it in 2004 and about even with the average in 2005. All this while producing nearly identical records of 9-7, 8-8 and 9-7, respectively. Average record, average income.

Meanwhile, the less troubled Denver Broncos, a team that suffered 1 or 2 player arrests every year from 2000 to 2006, saw annual revenues grow between 15% above the league average to 2% below it over that span. The club's overall financial performance was barely better than the Vikings', despite fewer criminal issues and more success on the field. All across the league, revenues ebbed and flowed, but with no statistically relevant connection to the number of arrests

This one lists out the teams and players....maybe we should count Gaffney

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/nfl/longterm/2006/nfl_chart_12162006.html

HOU-TEX
04-24-2008, 09:14 AM
As much as I dislike the Cowboys and Jerry Jones, the deal appears to be safe for them. I wouldn't want the Texans to do something like this, but I don't think the Cowboys can lose on this deal.

I now must wash my hands for typing something positive about Skeletor and his chain gang.

HoustonFrog
04-24-2008, 09:16 AM
As much as I dislike the Cowboys and Jerry Jones, the deal appears to be safe for them. I wouldn't want the Texans to do something like this, but I don't think the Cowboys can lose on this deal.

I now must wash my hands for typing something positive about Skeletor and his chain gang.

Exactly. I am not a fan of bad things but this deal is a win/win and if he punks out..bye-bye. If not I'll be peeved.

I won't argue anymore. All I wanted to do was point out the problems league wide instead of the misleading things floating around.

Texan_Bill
04-24-2008, 09:17 AM
And as I said Newton and Irvin were gone. They don't babysit players. So as far as team transgressions go they are in the minority vs the stats I put up earlier regarding the Broncos, etc, etc. You can look it all up on line. I know since the 70s, when I have watched, they have had people off an on. But so did the roided up SB decade Pitt team. So did many others like the old Browns who had dozens of players arrested. People just don't pay attention because they weren't the Cowboys. The Pats, team class brings on police running over Moss and has other guys. People just need to stop turning the other way. The last arrest I heard of was here on this team.

http://www.forbes.com/leadership/2007/08/13/sports-athletes-revenues-lead-cx_mw_0813nfl.html


This one lists out the teams and players....maybe we should count Gaffney

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/nfl/longterm/2006/nfl_chart_12162006.html

I am in no way suggesting that the Cowboys all have 'Thug Life' tattooed across their chest / stomachs. I also readily concede that there are teams with far more issues (past, present and future) than the Cowboys, but what I will not concede is that the cowboys as an organization over the years have been squeaky clean.. Far from it.

Part of the hatred towards the Cowboys comes from this 'image' that they and their fans portray as being choir boys and their crap not stinking..

HOU-TEX
04-24-2008, 09:20 AM
Exactly. I am not a fan of bad things but this deal is a win/win and if he punks out..bye-bye. If not I'll be peeved.

I won't argue anymore. All I wanted to do was point out the problems league wide instead of the misleading things floating around.

And...with Dallas having a few extra picks in this years draft, I think they could retain that 4th rounder fairly easy if they wanted. If so, and PM fails or isn't reinstated the Cowboys will get a free 4th next draft.

Ahite Frog, that's all the positive thoughts I can muster. :cool:

HoustonFrog
04-24-2008, 09:38 AM
I am in no way suggesting that the Cowboys all have 'Thug Life' tattooed across their chest / stomachs. I also readily concede that there are teams with far more issues (past, present and future) than the Cowboys, but what I will not concede is that the cowboys as an organization over the years have been squeaky clean.. Far from it.

Part of the hatred towards the Cowboys comes from this 'image' that they and their fans portray as being choir boys and their crap not stinking..

Well hell TB, I never claimed them to be choir boys. :) Not even close. I acknowledge the history of Hollywood and others. Sometimes I like having a little "edge" but it depends how far it goes. But they aren't clean at all. I just get tired of people acting like they "lead the way" and it is just a Cowboy thing. These days with the 53 players and the youth out there...I'm more surpised more arrests don't happen all over.

Texan_Bill
04-24-2008, 09:41 AM
Well hell TB, I never claimed them to be choir boys. :) Not even close. I acknowledge the history of Hollywood and others. Sometimes I like having a little "edge" but it depends how far it goes. But they aren't clean at all. I just get tired of people acting like they "lead the way" and it is just a Cowboy thing. These days with the 53 players and the youth out there...I'm more surpised more arrests don't happen all over.

Right on.. I guess were on the same page.



Well sorta! ;)

Brando
04-24-2008, 09:59 AM
Thank you Cowboys for removing a really good player from our division.


QFT! I'm glad he is in Dallas and out of the AFC South, well he was out of the AFC South anyway.:shades:


I have a little more respect for the Cowboys and their fans because of posters like StarSruck and HoustonFrog. That and I don't work for a Dallas based company anymore.:cool: Besides there is another team and it's owner that left Texas that is #1 on my hate list. Re: Tennessee

Texan_Bill
04-24-2008, 10:03 AM
Thank you Cowboys for removing a really good player from our division.

my thoughts as well.

QFT! I'm glad he is in Dallas and out of the AFC South, well he was out of the AFC South anyway.:shades:


I have a little more respect for the Cowboys and their fans because of posters like StarSruck and HoustonFrog. That and I don't work for a Dallas based company anymore.:cool: Besides there is another team and it's owner that left Texas that is #1 on my hate list. Re: Tennessee


Not sure why y'all are so glad about him being out of our division... Tennessee's defense was better last year without him, than they were with him...

Brando
04-24-2008, 10:10 AM
Not sure why y'all are so glad about him being out of our division... Tennessee's defense was better last year without him, than they were with him...

True but they missed him on ST's for sure.

ChampionTexan
04-24-2008, 10:19 AM
Frog -

Here's what my concern would be if I were a Cowboy fan. With all the former "Bad Apples" (which can be either legal problems, or locker room problems) that the 'Boys have signed, where is the leadership/guidance going to come from? With Moss and the Pats, you have a group of veterans keeping things in line (including a LB corp with about 250 years of cumulative experience). Plus, you have a coach with the "gravitas" to keep things pretty well in line. Additionally, you hear Dillon's name brought up as this type of problem player, but it's interesting to note that the Pats never had both Moss and Dillon on the roster at the same time. They've never had to deal with more than one of these guys at a time.

I'm not sure I see anyone on the Cowboys roster who can provide that leadership if and when it's needed. I absolutely don't think it's Romo, and while it could be Zach Thomas, I'm not sure if even his All Pro background overcomes the fact that he's so new to the Cowboys.

In the old days, Landry and Jimmy had the ability to keep things under control (whether it was thru preventing problems or finessing them), and I think Parcells brought the same ability to the table. However I wonder if Wade Phillips (who I like alot) following the Tuna isn't the equivalent of Switzer following Jimmy. Barry came in and won a Super Bowl with somebody else's talent, but for whatever reason, he wasn't able to keep things going. (Editorial comment - Switzer was also saddled with the same questionable GM that Wade is). I just wonder if Wade would be able to handle adversity (if it happens), and the same would hold true for Garrett if and when they make a coaching change.

You now have three guys with a history of legal and/or locker room problems (at least that I can think of off the top of my head), and while winning cures or prevents all ills, I really wonder if things turn bad at any point next year whether it all starts unravelling really fast. This is where I see the risk. Yeah, you can get rid of Pac Man, or T.O., Tank, or all of them, but if you suffered the damage that would cause you to get rid of them in the first place, how long does it take you to recover?

ChampionTexan
04-24-2008, 10:20 AM
Not sure why y'all are so glad about him being out of our division... Tennessee's defense was better last year without him, than they were with him...


I'm not sure why they're giving Dallas credit for it either - even if this trade hadn't happened, Pacman wasn't ever putting on a Titans jersey again.

Texan_Bill
04-24-2008, 11:25 AM
I'm not sure why they're giving Dallas credit for it either - even if this trade hadn't happened, Pacman wasn't ever putting on a Titans jersey again.

Right! Good point....

**********************************

Let's re-cap Pac's accomplishments, errrrrrrrrr legal issues:

July 13, 2005- Arrested and charged with assault and felony vandalism after a nightclub altercation. This began Pacman Jones NFL rap sheet. He already had a lengthy one from high school and college.

September 5, 2005- Adam was invited to attend the Nashville Sports Council Kickoff Luncheon. Jones went off on a verbal tirade while being told to wait for his car after the event. He then refused to tip the valet service.

October 2005- State of West Virginia filed a petition stating that Jones had not been contacting his probation officer and that he had not reported his July 2005 arrest. The judge extended the probation for just 90 days.

March 23, 2006- Charged with marijuana possession in Fayetteville, Georgia. He went on to claim that he knew how to beat the NFL’s drug test.

August 25, 2006- Arrested for disorderly conduct and public intoxication after being ordered by the cops to leave a Murfreesboro night club several times. Jones claimed a woman stole his wallet. The woman claimed that Jones spat on her. The judge in the case gave Pacman six months probation and told him to stay away from the club.

October 26, 2006- Jones was issued a citation for misdemeanor assault after a female student from Tennessee State University claimed that Jones spit in her face at a Nashville night club.

Feburary 19, 2007- The facts are disputed and no charges have been made yet, but Jones was in the middle of a fight and shooting at a strip club in Las Vegas that left one man paralyzed and two more wounded. The fight broke out after Jones showered strippers on stage with $81,000 dollars. The club owner claims Jones was beating a strippers head against the bar while claiming to kill one of the club’s employees.

January 3, 2008- Pacman is accused of punching Wanda S. Jackson in the face at an Atlanta strip club called the Body Tap Strip Club. Jackson says Jones reached over the counter and sucker punched her in her left eye.

The above time line doesn’t include his sentence of one year in prison for a bar fight in Morgantown, West Virginia while in college. The sentence was later suspended in exchange for two years of probation (because he is a really good football player).

Link: Pacman Jones' Criminal Record (http://bumpshack.com/2007/03/02/pacman-jones-criminal-record/)

Nice... Not thrilling, but nice.

HoustonFrog
04-24-2008, 11:37 AM
As I said the guy may be some of the biggest pieces of dirt in the league when you look at what he has done. But in the grand scheme of things and on one hand a 4th rounder is just as big of a gamble and JJ will roll the dice. On the other hand PacMan has probably one chance left before being banned for good. So that is where we are at.

The smart thing the Cowboys are doing is drafting like he isn't around and taking WR, RB and CB all in the top rounds if their guys are there. they could go WR/RB in the first and still take a Cason or someone in the 2nd

StarStruck
04-24-2008, 12:23 PM
We can argue character and arrests until cows turn blue, and everytime you pick up a paper someone out there is going to provide a reason for the arguments to continue. Heck, anybody that a team has put a lot of money into or counted on for production, will cause a problem in the locker room or team unity if they don't hold up their end of the deal.

We tend to wear blinders when someone we like or play on the team we like poses a problem within the organization. How many were reluctant to believe that sweet, charming, handsome, family man, Christian, etc. David Carr was a liability to the Texans? How many had message board fits with Dante Robinson (I think it was him) made public comments about David's team play... he need to shut up, blah blah blah. It was only after David's release that some people thought that he had a negative impact on the Texans success.

When you have players that don't measure up to the expectations then, you have to release them and move on. If PacMan, TO, Tank don't pan out, the Cowboys organization will not crash. We move on. Remember we had to cut the starting quarterback two weeks before the season started. We survived.
My hope is that not only for the Cowboys as an organization, the men contribute to the team, and even more importantly make positive changes to their personal lives. Should that be the case, I thank Jerry Jones for giving them the opportunity realize their potential in a positive manner.

Errant Hothy
04-24-2008, 12:26 PM
I'm just laughing at all the Tacks fans who were certain that they would be getting a first day pick (top 3 rounds) pick at the very least for Pac.

Second Honeymoon
04-24-2008, 07:32 PM
Frog -

Here's what my concern would be if I were a Cowboy fan. With all the former "Bad Apples" (which can be either legal problems, or locker room problems) that the 'Boys have signed, where is the leadership/guidance going to come from? With Moss and the Pats, you have a group of veterans keeping things in line (including a LB corp with about 250 years of cumulative experience). Plus, you have a coach with the "gravitas" to keep things pretty well in line. Additionally, you hear Dillon's name brought up as this type of problem player, but it's interesting to note that the Pats never had both Moss and Dillon on the roster at the same time. They've never had to deal with more than one of these guys at a time.

I'm not sure I see anyone on the Cowboys roster who can provide that leadership if and when it's needed. I absolutely don't think it's Romo, and while it could be Zach Thomas, I'm not sure if even his All Pro background overcomes the fact that he's so new to the Cowboys.

In the old days, Landry and Jimmy had the ability to keep things under control (whether it was thru preventing problems or finessing them), and I think Parcells brought the same ability to the table. However I wonder if Wade Phillips (who I like alot) following the Tuna isn't the equivalent of Switzer following Jimmy. Barry came in and won a Super Bowl with somebody else's talent, but for whatever reason, he wasn't able to keep things going. (Editorial comment - Switzer was also saddled with the same questionable GM that Wade is). I just wonder if Wade would be able to handle adversity (if it happens), and the same would hold true for Garrett if and when they make a coaching change.

You now have three guys with a history of legal and/or locker room problems (at least that I can think of off the top of my head), and while winning cures or prevents all ills, I really wonder if things turn bad at any point next year whether it all starts unravelling really fast. This is where I see the risk. Yeah, you can get rid of Pac Man, or T.O., Tank, or all of them, but if you suffered the damage that would cause you to get rid of them in the first place, how long does it take you to recover?

Switzer had nothing to do with the Cowboys decline after the 3 out 4 peat. Aikman's injury and somewhat early retirement, Irvin's injury, the annual bloodletting of talent due to Free Agency and giving up 2 first round picks and more for Joey Galloway was another panic move that made things even worse. If anyone is to blame it's Jerry but he has done a good job all-in-all righting the ship since Parcells arrived. They aren't there yet and lost one of the best coaches ever in Parcells but they are at least close to being a true SB possibility. I just can't get on board with Romo and believe they will ultimately be nothing but cannon fodder in the NFC playoffs with Romo at the helm. Getting rid of Roy Williams would help too.

If Aikman and Irvin would have stayed healthy Switzer may still be the Cowboys coach and there could be another trophy or two in the case. It isn't like Switzer ruined the Cowboys because nothing could be farther from the truth. Dude is a DAMN good football coach and had his team fired up and ready to play and well prepared nearly every week. Barry knows what it takes and like Jimmy is unprecedented in his level of success at the collegiate and professional levels. Sorry about the rant, but I can not stand the Barry Sucks And Won With Jimmy's Players argument. Ugh. He deserved better because he showed a lot of class under tough circumstances during his days in Dallas and eventually won one. I absolutely love him and Jimmy Johnson talking football on Fox's pre-game. Great stuff.

Second Honeymoon
04-24-2008, 07:48 PM
As I said the guy may be some of the biggest pieces of dirt in the league when you look at what he has done. But in the grand scheme of things and on one hand a 4th rounder is just as big of a gamble and JJ will roll the dice. On the other hand PacMan has probably one chance left before being banned for good. So that is where we are at.

The smart thing the Cowboys are doing is drafting like he isn't around and taking WR, RB and CB all in the top rounds if their guys are there. they could go WR/RB in the first and still take a Cason or someone in the 2nd

Yup, I think that would send a stern but positive message to Pac Man. He would have to realize the huge risk the Cowboys are taking and maybe the guy can fix his life and help other groups/individuals that he may have hurt in the past. The guy who got paralyzed better be getting paid. If he keeps clean for 2 years straight without a problem, he could find himself as someone with leverage to work a new deal or hit Free Agency and hit the Nate Clements/Asanti Samuels lottery.

Here is what I am worried about. What if the guy charged with shooting the bodyguard in Las Vegas said that Pac Man told him to or incited him to. Wasn't the report out that Pac Man said 'I'll kill you' and other threats? Then someone that may have been rolling with Pac Man shoots the guy nearly killing him. The NFL may not be willing to deal with that possibility if that is shown to be the case. What are the witnesses in the Las Vegas trial going to be saying about Pac Man? That is bad publicity any way you cut it. And at the same time Jerry is going to be opening up his Wonder Of The World stadium...its only a 4th round pick risk but the risk to the luster of the franchise is greater