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View Full Version : Carr makes Top 10.....Worst #1 Picks


2BCF
04-22-2008, 01:55 PM
Davey, you'll always be #1 in my mind.

http://nfldraft.rivals.com/photofeature.asp?SID=1164&fid=22666

Texan_Bill
04-22-2008, 02:04 PM
Funny how Yahoo is displaying both Vick and Carr on their main page - with the link to that article...

Texaninlild
04-22-2008, 02:10 PM
The funny thing is if Vick came out the next year, we would have drafted him. I think we were doomed from the start...or just choosing Charlie and Dom to run the club ruined our first years.

El Tejano
04-22-2008, 02:14 PM
I don't think you can really say Vick was a bad #1 pick. He did take a crappy ATL team to the NFC championship and for the most part was a threat that DCs had to gameplan for.

Was Tony Mandarich a #1 overall?

El Tejano
04-22-2008, 02:16 PM
The funny thing is if Vick came out the next year, we would have drafted him. I think we were doomed from the start...or just choosing Charlie and Dom to run the club ruined our first years.

We have alot to thank Vick for too because he said the reason he left college was because we were going to have the #1 pick in 02.

Double Barrel
04-22-2008, 02:18 PM
At least Mr. Mittens is in the top 10 of something other than sack records! :thinking:

Texan_Bill
04-22-2008, 02:22 PM
At least Mr. Mittens is in the top 10 of something other than sack records! :thinking:

C'mon DB!! You're better than that!!

It's a well known fact that he is tied (with Tony Banks - as a Ram) for 2nd - YES SECOND in most fumbles in a season with 21. (He fell two short of Daunte Culpepper and Kerry Collins. Each with 23).

Brando
04-22-2008, 02:27 PM
I don't think you can really say Vick was a bad #1 pick. He did take a crappy ATL team to the NFC championship and for the most part was a threat that DCs had to gameplan for.

Was Tony Mandarich a #1 overall?

No he was the second pick after Troy Aikman. The Packers could have drafted Barry Sanders, Deion Sanders, or Derrick Thomas.

ChampionTexan
04-22-2008, 02:40 PM
No he was the second pick after Troy Aikman. The Packers could have drafted Barry Sanders, Deion Sanders, or Derrick Thomas.


I think that's actually on the Wonderlich now - the list of those 5 names with the question "Which of the following doesn't belong on this list?"

Texan_Bill
04-22-2008, 02:44 PM
Funny how Yahoo is displaying both Vick and Carr on their main page - with the link to that article...

Here's the pic that they show:

http://l.yimg.com/a/i/ww/news/2008/04/22/vick-carr-full.jpg

Brando
04-22-2008, 02:47 PM
Here's the pic that they show:

http://l.yimg.com/a/i/ww/news/2008/04/22/vick-carr-full.jpg

David Carr: How do I read defenses?
Mike Vick: That dog took a good chunk off my ass.

Texan_Bill
04-22-2008, 02:49 PM
David Carr: How do I read defenses?
Mike Vick: That dog took a good chunk off my ass.

I though Dave was showing off his 'bangin' soul patch.... idonno:

Brando
04-22-2008, 02:53 PM
I though Dave was showing off his 'bangin' soul patch.... idonno:


Ah, zoolander.....






http://l.yimg.com/a/i/ww/news/2008/04/22/vick-carr-full.jpg
David Zoolander: Have you ever wondered if there was more to life, other than being really, really, ridiculously good looking?
Mike Vick: Yeah, Dog Fighting

nunusguy
04-22-2008, 04:29 PM
I never though Carr was a bad pick and I still don't.
Now the way Capers and his cast of coachs "developed" him after he got here and the abysmal job they did in providing him with an adequate OLine
his first couple years, that's another story for sure.
But for whatever reason its seems to remain a local pasttime to bash him even now after he's long gone from the scene.

Vinny
04-22-2008, 04:38 PM
But for whatever reason its seems to remain a local pasttime to bash him even now after he's long gone from the scene.
it could be because lots of people around here gave him a good chunk of their money and he tells us that he didn't try that hard when he was here....sounds like 60 million reasons to dislike the guy to me.

Specnatz
04-22-2008, 04:40 PM
it could be because lots of people around here gave him a good chunk of their money and he tells us that he didn't try that hard when he was here....sounds like 60 million reasons to dislike the guy to me.

Money? hell we gave him a good chunk of our hearts as well (like we do a lot of players) and not only did he say that be he blamed everyone else on his problems versus being a man and taking ownership of them.

Double Barrel
04-22-2008, 05:04 PM
I never though Carr was a bad pick and I still don't.
Now the way Capers and his cast of coachs "developed" him after he got here and the abysmal job they did in providing him with an adequate OLine
his first couple years, that's another story for sure.

It will be an eternal debate among Texans fans with regards to Carr. Did the team "break him", or was he a flawed talent before he got here?

An argument can be made, either way. But, I do point out the fact that he did not have a dismal third year, so that sort of shows that he still had something that coaches thought was workable at that point. JMO

But for whatever reason its seems to remain a local pasttime to bash him even now after he's long gone from the scene.

Bud Adams feels his pain. ;)

Obviously Carr did nothing like The Rug, but I think the bitter aftertaste of failure is just something Houston football fans have in them (myself included).

nunusguy
04-22-2008, 05:09 PM
it could be because lots of people around here gave him a good chunk of their money and he tells us that he didn't try that hard when he was here....sounds like 60 million reasons to dislike the guy to me.
You're saying that fans should feel short-changed for buying tickets to Texans games because Carr now claims that he didn't give it his all on the field ? Ah, if you say he said that OK.
I was glad when he finally left. He was definitely here to long for all concerned. But that kid took some hard beatings. And a lot of them.
My animosity was really towards McNair & the Texans more than Carr for the way his whole situation was handled. What a waste of the first overall pick
and no telling how many lost games and really the inability for the franchise to improve as much as it could have because of the way Carr struggled.

Texan_Bill
04-22-2008, 05:14 PM
You're saying that fans should feel short-changed for buying tickets to Texans games because Carr now claims that he didn't give it his all on the field ? Ah, if you say he said that OK.
I was glad when he finally left. He was definitely here to long for all concerned. But that kid took some hard beatings. And a lot of them.
My animosity was really towards McNair & the Texans more than Carr for the way his whole situation was handled. What a waste of the first overall pick
and no telling how many lost games and really the inability for the franchise to improve as much as it could have because of the way Carr struggled.

I used to agree with a lot of what you're saying, but seriously go back and watch some old games. A lot of those beatings were because of the line BUT a lot of those beatings were self-induced. I was willing to give Carr the entire first season that Kubiak was here (Of course, to many that constituted me being a Carr homer - which I was far from and got pummeled for anyway)... He lost me half way through that season because I realized it wasn't coaching, it wasn't all on the line - it was mostly David.

I don't have the deep seeded hate for Carr, but by the same token, I enjoy funnin' on him a little... It's cathartic. He owes me that, at least..

Hervoyel
04-22-2008, 05:52 PM
We weren't "doomed from the start". All we had to do was the obvious thing and take Julius Peppers and things would have proceeded as they should have. We'd have had a brutal defensive line in 2002, a decent linebacking corps, and a veteran secondary. Aaron Glenn and Gary Brown went to the Pro Bowl our first year. Peppers might have joined them. We would have started Tony Banks and I absolutely believe we might have won 6-7 games that season without trying to start a rookie with no football instincts.

We were far from doomed. We just had no real brain trust. It angers me to no end to see Charlie Casserly making a living as a "draft expert" so soon after he demonstrated to the world that any casual fan with a dart board and an internet connection could out-draft him with ease.

I have no professional respect for that man at all and would gladly say that to his face if given the opportunity.

Errant Hothy
04-22-2008, 05:54 PM
We weren't "doomed from the start". All we had to do was the obvious thing and take Julius Peppers and things would have proceeded as they should have. We'd have had a brutal defensive line in 2002, a decent linebacking corps, and a veteran secondary. Aaron Glenn and Gary Brown went to the Pro Bowl our first year. Peppers might have joined them. We would have started Tony Banks and I absolutely believe we might have won 6-7 games that season without trying to start a rookie with no football instincts.

We were far from doomed. We just had no real brain trust. It angers me to no end to see Charlie Casserly making a living as a "draft expert" so soon after he demonstrated to the world that any casual fan with a dart board and an internet connection could out-draft him with ease.

I have no professional respect for that man at all and would gladly say that to his face if given the opportunity.

So good it needs a repeating.

I'll admit i was wrong about Carr, but then again I'm a graphics guy not a GM of an NFL team.

Honoring Earl 34
04-22-2008, 05:59 PM
We were far from doomed. We just had no real brain trust. It angers me to no end to see Charlie Casserly making a living as a "draft expert" so soon after he demonstrated to the world that any casual fan with a dart board and an internet connection could out-draft him with ease.


I agree that Peppers was the player to take .

I agree Casserly stunk .

I wish Bosselli would have been healthy .

Hill , Hollings , Babin , PBuch , Bennie , Carr , Wand , and Ragone .

I think in hindsight Dom did a much better job of coaching than CC did as a gm .

Double Barrel
04-22-2008, 06:12 PM
I used to agree with a lot of what you're saying, but seriously go back and watch some old games. A lot of those beatings were because of the line BUT a lot of those beatings were self-induced. I was willing to give Carr the entire first season that Kubiak was here (Of course, to many that constituted me being a Carr homer - which I was far from and got pummeled for anyway)... He lost me half way through that season because I realized it wasn't coaching, it wasn't all on the line - it was mostly David.

I don't have the deep seeded hate for Carr, but by the same token, I enjoy funnin' on him a little... It's cathartic. He owes me that, at least..

Good post, man.

And I feel the same way about your last point. I never hated Carr, but it is kinda' humorous in a silly way to poke fun of the whole thing. And c'mon, he deserves some of it by just being Mr. Mittens.

We weren't "doomed from the start". All we had to do was the obvious thing and take Julius Peppers and things would have proceeded as they should have. We'd have had a brutal defensive line in 2002, a decent linebacking corps, and a veteran secondary. Aaron Glenn and Gary Brown went to the Pro Bowl our first year. Peppers might have joined them. We would have started Tony Banks and I absolutely believe we might have won 6-7 games that season without trying to start a rookie with no football instincts.

We were far from doomed. We just had no real brain trust. It angers me to no end to see Charlie Casserly making a living as a "draft expert" so soon after he demonstrated to the world that any casual fan with a dart board and an internet connection could out-draft him with ease.

I have no professional respect for that man at all and would gladly say that to his face if given the opportunity.

No doubt about it. I actually have to turn the channel from NFLN when Casserly starts blathering his brain droppings.

Runner
04-22-2008, 06:25 PM
I think in hindsight Dom did a much better job of coaching than CC did as a gm .

I think Dom did a terrible job. He was just as bad as Casserly - worse in my opinion. The coaches lost the players going into that 2-14 season and it showed. The available talent didn't change that much from the preceding 7-9 season.

This organization was badly run from the top down through the assistant coaches. If nothing else, Kubiak owes some of his success to changing the corporate culture. Now it takes more than draft position, salary, and other non-performance related issues to crack the starting line-up.

Kaiser Toro
04-22-2008, 06:39 PM
What a poorly researched and written article. Carr is #1 with Couch and Brown at #2. Salary Cap era is everything in these discussions when you speak about modern players versus pre-salary cap era players.

McNair had the warm and fuzzies for Carr. Between the Cowboys being a juvenile detention center in the late 90's & early 2000's and Capers playing a 3-4 we were going with Carr. Harrington was never in the mix to my recollection. McNair wanted a good story to sell against the Toilet Bowl occupants to differentiate the two products.

If only Carr had been less good looking, things may have been different for the Texans.

Yankee_In_TX
04-22-2008, 08:38 PM
LMAO, I just saw this on Yahoo....

kastofsna
04-22-2008, 08:49 PM
i don't know a lot about Walt Patulski, but looking as his resume, i can't see how he's the worst #1 pick of all time.

PapaL
04-22-2008, 08:58 PM
The really sad part is that even as bad of QB as Vick was he was still much much much better than Mickey Mouse...I mean DC was/is.

Honoring Earl 34
04-22-2008, 09:15 PM
I think Dom did a terrible job. He was just as bad as Casserly - worse in my opinion. The coaches lost the players going into that 2-14 season and it showed. The available talent didn't change that much from the preceding 7-9 season.


This is like ... would you rather be eaten by a shark or an alligator . They were both really bad but CC was the dealer and Dom had to play the hand that was dealt .

Runner
04-22-2008, 09:52 PM
This is like ... would you rather be eaten by a shark or an alligator . They were both really bad but CC was the dealer and Dom had to play the hand that was dealt .

Except he'd keep a 3 and a 5 in his hand rather than try to get at least an 8.

Weak analogy, but you get the point. He didn't play his best cards.

Honoring Earl 34
04-22-2008, 10:00 PM
Except he'd keep a 3 and a 5 in his hand rather than try to get at least an 8.

Weak analogy, but you get the point. He didn't play his best cards.

Not really , the strength of the Texans was clearly their defense . The new QB was bad , the OL was bad , their offense was smoke and mirrors at best . So what do you do , you try to keep the game close and play D ... that's what they did .

If CC is a 2 as a GM then Dom's a 3 as a Coach . You have a hardon for Dom because of Seth Wand . Which is fine because I think of all the blown picks and bad trades .

mexican_texan
04-22-2008, 10:02 PM
We weren't "doomed from the start". All we had to do was the obvious thing and take Julius Peppers and things would have proceeded as they should have. We'd have had a brutal defensive line in 2002, a decent linebacking corps, and a veteran secondary. Aaron Glenn and Gary Brown went to the Pro Bowl our first year. Peppers might have joined them. We would have started Tony Banks and I absolutely believe we might have won 6-7 games that season without trying to start a rookie with no football instincts.

We were far from doomed. We just had no real brain trust. It angers me to no end to see Charlie Casserly making a living as a "draft expert" so soon after he demonstrated to the world that any casual fan with a dart board and an internet connection could out-draft him with ease.

I have no professional respect for that man at all and would gladly say that to his face if given the opportunity.
If that'd happen, we'd have slightly happier memories and no AJ, Mario, DeMeco, Amobi, or Dunta.

Runner
04-22-2008, 10:32 PM
Not really , the strength of the Texans was clearly their defense . The new QB was bad , the OL was bad , their offense was smoke and mirrors at best . So what do you do , you try to keep the game close and play D ... that's what they did .

If CC is a 2 as a GM then Dom's a 3 as a Coach . You have a hardon for Dom because of Seth Wand . Which is fine because I think of all the blown picks and bad trades .

No. I don't like his coaching (I understand he's a fine man) because he built a bad staff and let them run the team into the ground. Why did they go from 7-9 to 2-14? The talent didn't change that much. The coaching cratered.

eriadoc
04-23-2008, 12:13 AM
As long as Ryan Leaf is not #1 on this list, it has no merit in my eyes. As much as we all like to bag on Carr, Leaf won FOUR games in 3 years, and he conducted himself with all the maturity of an 18-y/o frat brat loaded down with a sense of entitlement.

Wolf
04-23-2008, 01:24 AM
thank goodness for the Lions and matt millen

Where would this franchise be if we took Carr #1 and the lions took AJ instead of Charlie Rogers..

Carr to Rogers... I don't even want to go there ..

not to derail this thread so take it tongue and cheek

there has to be a Higher being looking somewhat down on the Texans on that..Carr to Rogers...


I couldn't imagine what this team would be right now and even injured thank you for the Falcons taking Hall instead of D-rob

other teams took the stupidity away from our previous regime

Honoring Earl 34
04-23-2008, 06:52 AM
No. I don't like his coaching (I understand he's a fine man) because he built a bad staff and let them run the team into the ground. Why did they go from 7-9 to 2-14? The talent didn't change that much. The coaching cratered.

I agree the team quit on him . I think after Sharper and Glenn were let go they went into a death spiral .

The Pencil Neck
04-23-2008, 09:34 AM
As long as Ryan Leaf is not #1 on this list, it has no merit in my eyes. As much as we all like to bag on Carr, Leaf won FOUR games in 3 years, and he conducted himself with all the maturity of an 18-y/o frat brat loaded down with a sense of entitlement.

Ryan Leaf was a #2 pick, not a #1. That's why he's not on this list. This is a list of #1's who busted.

Brando
04-23-2008, 09:36 AM
Ryan Leaf was a #2 pick, not a #1. That's why he's not on this list. This is a list of #1's who busted.

I wish the Colts did take him #1, then Manning would be out of the AFC South.:cool:

HOU-TEX
04-23-2008, 09:40 AM
You know.....Carr could still turn it around and have an awesome career. I mean, he's got the physical tools, right? :rolleyes:

Pfft! He sucked, sucks and will always suck. I'm pissed I even had to root that peckerhead on.

:worm:

Mr. White
04-23-2008, 11:23 AM
I'm glad to see that the media's starting to get it now.

I was watching the "10 All-Time Draft Busts" on NFLN yesterday and kept thinking to myself "David Carr is more of a bust than that guy."

Vinny
04-23-2008, 12:14 PM
it could be because lots of people around here gave him a good chunk of their money and he tells us that he didn't try that hard when he was here....sounds like 60 million reasons to dislike the guy to me.

You're saying that fans should feel short-changed for buying tickets to Texans games because Carr now claims that he didn't give it his all on the field ? Ah, if you say he said that OK.
I was glad when he finally left. He was definitely here to long for all concerned. But that kid took some hard beatings. And a lot of them.
My animosity was really towards McNair & the Texans more than Carr for the way his whole situation was handled. What a waste of the first overall pick
and no telling how many lost games and really the inability for the franchise to improve as much as it could have because of the way Carr struggled. It's hard for me to think the Texans "ruined" him when he freely admits he didn't listen to his coaches or try that hard to prepare.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=866053&postcount=625

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=yasinskas_pat&id=3292963&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab3pos1
Carr says it was his "California Cool" that was the impediment to his success, while also admitting that he didn't prepare well enough.

Quote:
When Carr was in Houston, Palmer was his quarterbacks coach. The two always had a good relationship, but Carr admitted he might not always have given Palmer his best.
...It's about preparing yourself and carrying yourself the right way. Those were the things Chris always was telling me in Houston, but I wasn't always listening. This time, I'm going to listen.''

Thanks Davey! :rolleyes:

Wolf
04-23-2008, 12:17 PM
It's hard for me to think the Texans "ruined" him when he freely admits he didn't listen to his coaches or try that hard to prepare.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=866053&postcount=625

you'll love this one Vinny

Carrisms

The kick also provoked a giant sigh of relief in Houston, as the Texans (2-14) narrowly avoided ruining the only solace left in their awful season. After the game, a person close to the organization told The Associated Press that (Dom) Capers will be fired Monday to start an offseason of big changes — probably peaking with a red-white-and-blue jersey for Bush. If Houston had won, the New Orleans Saints would have received the top pick and first dibs on Bush, the Heisman Trophy-winning tailback from USC who's widely expected to enter the draft.

"You heard the talk all week: 'Play well, but don't win,"' said Texans quarterback David Carr, sidelined in the first half with a right elbow injury. "All that stuff was a little distracting at times. Maybe a lot of fans were glad I busted my elbow and Andre (Johnson) got hurt. There were some wild things about this football game.

"If we couldn't win them all, if we couldn't make the playoffs, I guess having the first pick, as bad as it is, might be good."

That's terrible, terrible stuff to read. But can you blame the fans? It's a weird position to be in, and each and every season, a few squads' faithful are saddled in it throughout the final month of the year.

*edit for link*
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8061842/On-the-Clock:-There's-case-for-NFL-Draft-lottery?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=23

geeze I never have been so wrong about a person

Brando
04-23-2008, 12:19 PM
geeze I never have been so wrong about a person

I'm still eating my crow. Taste a little better since he isn't here anymore.

Texan_Bill
04-23-2008, 12:22 PM
I'm still eating my crow. Taste a little better since he isn't here anymore.

Throw in some A-1...... :whip:

Brando
04-23-2008, 12:30 PM
Throw in some A-1...... :whip:

I'm outraged, you don't ask for A1 at Texans Talk!

j/k

:)