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Bull Pen 1
04-18-2008, 03:22 PM
OK, I'll start it, now that Steve McNair retired from the Ravens, maybe the Ravins will give up a 2nd rounder for Sage.

El Tejano
04-18-2008, 03:25 PM
I would hate it if Sage beat us in week two.

badboy
04-18-2008, 03:50 PM
where do they pick in second?

Bull Pen 1
04-18-2008, 04:01 PM
where do they pick in second?

The Ravens pick # 8 in the first, I'm guessing in 8 in the 2nd also or somewhere near # 8.

CloakNNNdagger
04-18-2008, 04:06 PM
The Ravens pick # 8 in the first, I'm guessing in 8 in the 2nd also or somewhere near # 8.

#38 overall pick

SheTexan
04-18-2008, 04:14 PM
Sage needs to remain a TEXAN!!

Double Barrel
04-18-2008, 04:16 PM
Sage needs to remain a TEXAN!!

Agreed, FWIW :howdy:

badboy
04-18-2008, 04:20 PM
Not when we can get a starter at a need position in 2nd. You do not make choices on a player because he or another might get knocked out of a game. It can happen to anyone.

Polo
04-18-2008, 04:38 PM
I'd rather not give up Sage, but if the price is right you gotta strike while the irons hot...

mexican_texan
04-18-2008, 05:02 PM
A 2nd round pick sounds mighty temptin'...I'd jump at it.

disaacks3
04-18-2008, 05:18 PM
I'd rather not give up Sage, but if the price is right you gotta strike while the irons hot... Yep! I don't want to lose him either, (especially when Schaub wasn't the healthiest guy in the world for us last year) but if the deal is too good to pass, you take it.

Do NOT be surprised to see us making moves on Draft Day.

nunusguy
04-18-2008, 05:19 PM
I'd rather not give up Sage, but if the price is right you gotta strike while the irons hot...

If we could get #8 in the 2nd round, that would be tempting. I dunno anything about the Ravens offense, wonder if Sage is a fit for what they run ?

rmartin65
04-18-2008, 05:19 PM
I would take a second easy. I would probably take a 3rd and a 6th as well. Then again, I love picks. Its like a drug to me.

Double Barrel
04-18-2008, 05:20 PM
You do not make choices on a player because he or another might get knocked out of a game.

Yeah, you do. It's called depth.

Nawzer
04-18-2008, 05:20 PM
Thread title makes no sense.

Mr PC
04-18-2008, 05:22 PM
I really want to keep Sage, but if Baltimore offers the #38 pick I think would take it. But nothing less than their second round pick, Sage is too valuable to this organization.

brakos82
04-18-2008, 05:24 PM
Thread title makes no sense.
QFT

DiehardChris
04-18-2008, 05:28 PM
:popcorn:

steelbtexan
04-18-2008, 06:09 PM
I'd rather not give up Sage, but if the price is right you gotta strike while the irons hot...

I'm in total agreement.

I like Sage but if Balt. offered no.38 I would take it.

On draft day I would wait & if a player was there that I liked in the 3rd round (Molden or Johnston) & Balt. offered a 3rd I would make the deal.

I think this is what Smithiak are waiting on come draft day.

HPF Bob
04-18-2008, 06:28 PM
Don't overlook the Packers as a trading partner, particularly since the Vikings have expressed an interest and we signed Quinn Gray out from under them.

I'm definitely in the "trade Sage" camp if we can do as well as a third-rounder. My guess is that this time next year we'd be lucky to get a fifth-rounder for him. Buy low, sell high.

awtysst
04-18-2008, 06:39 PM
Why would Balti trade a second for Sage when they can draft Henne with their sec0ond rounder? Doesn't make too much sense to me. I think Henne could be a great fit for them along with a studly LT they get in the first, so doesn't seem very smart to trade away their 2nd to us. If they offer, I'd be all over it since we could go LT in round 1, or grab LB Rivers to team with Meco, and then grab a Cason or Flowers in round 2.

If Minne traded their second, we could be looking at Cason, FLowers, Forte.

I think that Schaub not being able to go a whole season is somewhat blown out of proportion. He had a couple of bad breaks with his injuries. With a stronger Oline and more time to gel, I think he will be just fine. I also believe that Sage is at his highest in terms of trade value since we saw him go out and win games. If Schaub stays healthy and plays well(which si what we all want), Sage sits on the bench and is value decreases and he is a year older. I say trade high and get starters out of it.

aj.
04-18-2008, 06:52 PM
I dunno anything about the Ravens offense, wonder if Sage is a fit for what they run ?

I don't think anyone knows what their offense will look like under Cam. Harbaugh's a defensive guy so there won't be any influence from him. Their O-line is a mess, they have no QB, and really no playmakers other than Willis.... I expect them to draft heavy on the offensive side next Saturday.

Joe Texan
04-18-2008, 07:23 PM
Cannot believe this is up again.

SAGE AIN'T GOING NOWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thorn
04-18-2008, 07:24 PM
Sage needs to remain a TEXAN!!

I'll read no farther. This is good enough for me.

hollywood_texan
04-18-2008, 07:56 PM
Kubiak and Smith are going to have to take some calculated risks to get this team competitive.

It just amazes me that it is so easy to pull the trigger to resign Carr for $8 million, release Carr, trade two 2nd round draft picks for Schaub, and then can't pull the trigger on Rosenfels because he is this supposed in the bank commodity.

The Texans have dumped so much into the QB position with 2 guys and it just appears we are still in the same position from an overall team perspective. Which means now the Texans have to have a platoon of QBs to make it through a season that probably means last place in the AFC South with or with Sage.

Please listen to this, Sage as a Texan is not a great investment to get out of the AFC cellar, particularly when you could get a 2nd round pick.

Trading Sage is minimal risk when looking at the big jump the Texans need to make and what impact Sage would be on that jump.

Sure it makes you guys feel better because there is a perceived better backup, but keeping Sage doesn't get the Texans out of the cellar.

There are too many holes to fill to keep such an insurance policy at the QB position.

I have been saying this for years now, but this fascination with the QB position is biggest problem for the Texans.

Besides, Kubiak is supposed to be a QB guru. You can't tell me he can't find another guy on the scrap heap the way he found Sage in the first place.

AnthonyE
04-18-2008, 07:58 PM
Kubiak and Smith are going to have to take some calculated risks to get this team competitive.

It just amazes me that it is so easy to pull the trigger to resign Carr for $8 million, release Carr, trade two 2nd round draft picks for Schaub, and then can't pull the trigger on Rosenfels because he is this supposed in the bank commodity.

The Texans have dumped so much into the QB position with 2 guys and it just appears we are still in the same position from an overall team perspective. Which means now the Texans have to have a platoon of QBs to make it through a season that probably means last place in the AFC South with or with Sage.

Please listen to this, Sage as a Texan is not a great investment to get out of the AFC cellar, particularly when you could get a 2nd round pick.

Trading Sage is minimal risk when looking at the big jump the Texans need to make and what impact Sage would be on that jump.

Sure it makes you guys feel better because there is a perceived better backup, but keeping Sage doesn't get the Texans out of the cellar.

There are too many holes to fill to keep such an insurance policy at the QB position.

I have been saying this for years now, but this fascination with the QB position is biggest problem for the Texans.

Besides, Kubiak is supposed to be a QB guru. You can't tell me he can't find another guy on the scrap heap the way he found Sage in the first place.

Agreed. Best post on this thread and well, whatdyaknow, it's a mirror image of what I believe as well! XD

BSofA04
04-18-2008, 08:10 PM
Kubiak and Smith are going to have to take some calculated risks to get this team competitive.

It just amazes me that it is so easy to pull the trigger to resign Carr for $8 million, release Carr, trade two 2nd round draft picks for Schaub, and then can't pull the trigger on Rosenfels because he is this supposed in the bank commodity.

The Texans have dumped so much into the QB position with 2 guys and it just appears we are still in the same position from an overall team perspective. Which means now the Texans have to have a platoon of QBs to make it through a season that probably means last place in the AFC South with or with Sage.

Please listen to this, Sage as a Texan is not a great investment to get out of the AFC cellar, particularly when you could get a 2nd round pick.

Trading Sage is minimal risk when looking at the big jump the Texans need to make and what impact Sage would be on that jump.

Sure it makes you guys feel better because there is a perceived better backup, but keeping Sage doesn't get the Texans out of the cellar.

There are too many holes to fill to keep such an insurance policy at the QB position.

I have been saying this for years now, but this fascination with the QB position is biggest problem for the Texans.

Besides, Kubiak is supposed to be a QB guru. You can't tell me he can't find another guy on the scrap heap the way he found Sage in the first place.

Ding ding ding ding ding!!!! Winna winna chicken dinner! Rep and QFT.

GuerillaBlack
04-18-2008, 08:14 PM
Wasn't Carr resigned during the Casserly era? Why, yes he was. Carr should have never been resigned, and would not have if Kubiak and Smith were leading the Texans like they are now.

J-Russ
04-18-2008, 08:18 PM
Kubiak and Smith are going to have to take some calculated risks to get this team competitive.

It just amazes me that it is so easy to pull the trigger to resign Carr for $8 million, release Carr, trade two 2nd round draft picks for Schaub, and then can't pull the trigger on Rosenfels because he is this supposed in the bank commodity.

The Texans have dumped so much into the QB position with 2 guys and it just appears we are still in the same position from an overall team perspective. Which means now the Texans have to have a platoon of QBs to make it through a season that probably means last place in the AFC South with or with Sage.

Please listen to this, Sage as a Texan is not a great investment to get out of the AFC cellar, particularly when you could get a 2nd round pick.

Trading Sage is minimal risk when looking at the big jump the Texans need to make and what impact Sage would be on that jump.

Sure it makes you guys feel better because there is a perceived better backup, but keeping Sage doesn't get the Texans out of the cellar.

There are too many holes to fill to keep such an insurance policy at the QB position.

I have been saying this for years now, but this fascination with the QB position is biggest problem for the Texans.

Besides, Kubiak is supposed to be a QB guru. You can't tell me he can't find another guy on the scrap heap the way he found Sage in the first place.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Assuming we trade for Vikings high 3rd and their 6th, we could add a quality saftey, pass-rushing DE, CB, LB, and even LT!

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraftround3.html

Look at the talents that could be there in the 3rd! I would take any of them over Sage "the product"(of kubes) Rosenfels.

hollywood_texan
04-18-2008, 08:26 PM
Wasn't Carr resigned during the Casserly era? Why, yes he was. Carr should have never been resigned, and would not have if Kubiak and Smith were leading the Texans like they are now.

I understand your point. But, I think it's important to look at the QB position and the cost of ownership since day 1.

The Texans franchise has dumped so much into the QB position with 2 guys, and they can't unload a journey man for 2nd a round pick that they picked up off the trash heap?

There are maybe 5 franchise QBs in the NFL at any give time, and twice in 6 years, the Texans have swung for the fence to get that guy when all the other pieces aren't there to make that big push anyway.

I am not against Schaub, it just was too expensive and the timing wasn't right. But, now it seems that mistake is keeping the Texans from getting some value to make the team better.

It's argueable at this time that the Texans would be better off without Schaub because of the cost to acquire him and his contract.

Therefore, it's my opinion, the Texans Franchise has been hindered since the irst draft pick because of this fascination of the QB position.

hollywood_texan
04-18-2008, 08:28 PM
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Assuming we trade for Vikings high 3rd and their 6th, we could add a quality saftey, pass-rushing DE, CB, LB, and even LT!

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraftround3.html

Look at the talents that could be there in the 3rd! I would take any of our needs over Sage "the product"(of kubes) Rosenfels.

Yeah, there is an article on espn.com about drafting in the later rounds is how you build a team.

It's time to move with Rosenfels. It will be a disaster if Schaub goes down and then Sage comes and falls flat.

Texans love to acquire QBs, but have a hard time moving on from them.

ChampionTexan
04-18-2008, 08:49 PM
In terms of would the Texans take the 38th pick - that's a no brainer. They've all but said they would have done the Vikings deal for their #2, and that's several picks later than the Ravens.

As far as the Ravens doing the deal, I think the chances are pretty much zero. There's a decent chance that Ryan will be there when they pick in round one, and if he's not, or they go in another direction, between Henne, Brohm and Flacco, somebody pretty highly regarded will be available in round two.

I love having Sage at the backup QB - I think he's just starting to get the recognition he deserves, but even I wouldn't give up the #38 pick for him.

One last thing (and I've blathered about this before), but somebody made the comment that if Sage sits on the bench all next season that his value will go down. I think it's the opposite. He's valued as high as he's ever been right now, and backup QB's who don't play only see their stock rise. I challenge anybody to give me an example of a highly rated backup QB who didn't play (or didn't play much) during a season and was subsequently downgraded. It just doesn't happen. The only way Sage's value goes down next year if he stays a Texan is if he takes a significant amount of snaps and plays poorly.

hollywood_texan
04-18-2008, 09:08 PM
One last thing (and I've blathered about this before), but somebody made the comment that if Sage sits on the bench all next season that his value will go down. I think it's the opposite. He's valued as high as he's ever been right now, and backup QB's who don't play only see their stock rise. I challenge anybody to give me an example of a highly rated backup QB who didn't play (or didn't play much) during a season and was subsequently downgraded. It just doesn't happen. The only way Sage's value goes down next year if he stays a Texan is if he takes a significant amount of snaps and plays poorly.

It depends on supply and demand.

Quality QBs are tough to find, but the market for his services could change depending on what happens with other QBs.

Point is, these are not standing trade offers and things could change rapidly, unrelated to Sage's performance.

See your point and well taken.

nero THE zero
04-18-2008, 09:09 PM
Don't overlook the Packers as a trading partner, particularly since the Vikings have expressed an interest and we signed Quinn Gray out from under them.

I'm definitely in the "trade Sage" camp if we can do as well as a third-rounder. My guess is that this time next year we'd be lucky to get a fifth-rounder for him. Buy low, sell high.

That's what I've been saying as well. Green Bay has two 2nd rounders and a bad QB with no back-up. They're essentially in the same position as the Vikings were pre-Frerotte (which doesn't do much for me itself) with more picks in our desired range, considerably less holes to fill and a young, contending team which could use a plug-and-play QB. If they offered us #60 for Sage I think we'd have to take it.

J-Russ
04-18-2008, 09:09 PM
Those back-ups QB that was valued highly wasn't 30 years old either. They were young with a year or two before entering their prime. Rosenfels on the otherhand, IS in his prime.

ChampionTexan
04-18-2008, 09:17 PM
Those back-ups QB that was valued highly wasn't 30 years old either. They were young with a year or two before entering their prime. Rosenfels on the otherhand, IS in his prime.

Sage just turned 30, and I don't think at the QB position that it's that big a factor. Especially when you throw in the fact that he's taken very little in the way of punishment on his body.

HPF Bob
04-18-2008, 10:11 PM
Besides, Kubiak is supposed to be a QB guru. You can't tell me he can't find another guy on the scrap heap the way he found Sage in the first place.

He already has. Or does nobody remember the QB who carved us up the last week of the season?

ObsiWan
04-18-2008, 11:30 PM
In terms of would the Texans take the 38th pick - that's a no brainer. They've all but said they would have done the Vikings deal for their #2, and that's several picks later than the Ravens.

As far as the Ravens doing the deal, I think the chances are pretty much zero. There's a decent chance that Ryan will be there when they pick in round one, and if he's not, or they go in another direction, between Henne, Brohm and Flacco, somebody pretty highly regarded will be available in round two.

I love having Sage at the backup QB - I think he's just starting to get the recognition he deserves, but even I wouldn't give up the #38 pick for him.

One last thing (and I've blathered about this before), but somebody made the comment that if Sage sits on the bench all next season that his value will go down. I think it's the opposite. He's valued as high as he's ever been right now, and backup QB's who don't play only see their stock rise. I challenge anybody to give me an example of a highly rated backup QB who didn't play (or didn't play much) during a season and was subsequently downgraded. It just doesn't happen. The only way Sage's value goes down next year if he stays a Texan is if he takes a significant amount of snaps and plays poorly.

On the whole, I agree with this post. If the Ravens offered the 38th pick for Sage, Rick Smith would be all over it. No question. But until we get that kind of offer, holding onto the best backup this side of Kurt Warner just makes sense to me. I checked out the list of projected 3rd rounders and there isn't a one of those rookies I'd trade an experienced backup like Sage for, straight up.

I also agree that Sage's value should do nothing but go up as we get into T/C and preseason when QBs on other teams start getting banged up.

bckey
04-19-2008, 12:04 AM
I heard Todd McShay talking today on the Herd and he thinks all the top Tackles (Long, Clady, Otah, Williams)will be gone no later than pick 15. Albert is gonna be gone most likely too. I was thinking maybe the Texans might try and move up to Chicago's #14 slot by trading Sage to them for swapping 1st round picks and getting their 3rd. Would you do it if it meant the last of the top tackle prospects was about to be drafted just ahead of you?

Read this article about mocks. I posted it in another thread but it is really enlightening on how important mocks are to nfl teams to use as a tool to help them determine where a player they have targeted will go. So if the Texans have a LT targeted it might help you in determining what you think the Texans would do.


http://texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49367

threetoedpete
04-19-2008, 03:27 AM
Kubiak and Smith are going to have to take some calculated risks to get this team competitive.

It just amazes me that it is so easy to pull the trigger to resign Carr for $8 million, release Carr, trade two 2nd round draft picks for Schaub, and then can't pull the trigger on Rosenfels because he is this supposed in the bank commodity.

The Texans have dumped so much into the QB position with 2 guys and it just appears we are still in the same position from an overall team perspective. Which means now the Texans have to have a platoon of QBs to make it through a season that probably means last place in the AFC South with or with Sage.

Please listen to this, Sage as a Texan is not a great investment to get out of the AFC cellar, particularly when you could get a 2nd round pick.

Trading Sage is minimal risk when looking at the big jump the Texans need to make and what impact Sage would be on that jump.

Sure it makes you guys feel better because there is a perceived better backup, but keeping Sage doesn't get the Texans out of the cellar.

There are too many holes to fill to keep such an insurance policy at the QB position.

I have been saying this for years now, but this fascination with the QB position is biggest problem for the Texans.

Besides, Kubiak is supposed to be a QB guru. You can't tell me he can't find another guy on the scrap heap the way he found Sage in the first place.



agreed: You get the offer for the 38...you do the deal.


Great #2 Qb is a luxuary. Some of y'all need to make up your minds....do you want to win the division or do you want to stock pile QBs ? I doubt that Baltimore makes the deal. The only mind set I can think of is that the window is closing on Baltimore prety quickly now. One more grasp for the ring befor they rebuild ? Matty ice is going to need a year to get use to the speed of the NFL game.
One reason ? Sage is locked and loaded...all he has to do is learn the offesive terminology.

But Ozzie Newome has never reached for tallent yet. So again smells like pre-draft smoke.

NFLn is Suggeting that the Vikes are now in the hunt for Jarred allen....if that is true...I think that QB deal is dead.

Malloy
04-19-2008, 03:33 AM
I'm somewhat dissapointed. This thread pops up (as it should) and people automatically revert to the love/hate - trade/keep discussion based on whether or not the want Sage on the Team. Since I'm pretty sure that this discussion is the EXACT same as we had a month ago concerning a trade to the Vikings, why not make this one about whether Sage COULD get traded, and not so much IF he should be traded.

As mentioned, a trade to GB might be in the cards, but I doubt it'll happen before training camp. Baltimore, hm.. It depends on how long they've known that Mcnair would retire. If the news hit them with surprise, they may be scrambling to get the QB position somewhat set before entering the draft. If they've known for a while, They're either drafting a starter (dodgy at best) or getting the future QB to sit through a build-up with a horrible next season.

threetoedpete
04-19-2008, 03:43 AM
I heard Todd McShay talking today on the Herd and he thinks all the top Tackles (Long, Clady, Otah, Williams)will be gone no later than pick 15. Albert is gonna be gone most likely too. I was thinking maybe the Texans might try and move up to Chicago's #14 slot by trading Sage to them for swapping 1st round picks and getting their 3rd. Would you do it if it meant the last of the top tackle prospects was about to be drafted just ahead of you?

Read this article about mocks. I posted it in another thread but it is really enlightening on how important mocks are to nfl teams to use as a tool to help them determine where a player they have targeted will go. So if the Texans have a LT targeted it might help you in determining what you think the Texans would do.


http://texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49367



I f
the Texan's moved up for a top end tackle, that would be a comitment to the QB poition that they've never made before....I'll believe it when I see it.

agreed only a fool or a baseball writer would not recognise that this could be the richest offensive line tallent in NFL draft history. and the Texan's history suggests they will wiff one more time.

threetoedpete
04-19-2008, 04:08 AM
I'm somewhat dissapointed. This thread pops up (as it should)

To qoute Peirce Bronon in the Tomas Crown afair: six days before the draft. "what the he77 else is there to do ? "

aj.
04-19-2008, 07:59 AM
Assuming we trade for Vikings high 3rd and their 6th, we could add a quality saftey, pass-rushing DE, CB, LB, and even LT!

.

If the Vikes trade for Jared Allen, I doubt they will be in a position to swing any more deals.

edo783
04-19-2008, 08:12 AM
If the Vikes trade for Jared Allen, I doubt they will be in a position to swing any more deals.

True that AJ, but if I were a Vikes fan I would be less that comfortable with the QB situation. Ferrotte..........not warming the cockles of my heart as the backup.

Lucky
04-19-2008, 08:16 AM
I f
the Texan's moved up for a top end tackle, that would be a comitment to the QB poition that they've never made before....I'll believe it when I see it.
Move up with what? A phantom 2nd round pick from a deal that will never take place? The Texans only have 5 draft picks. Unless they dig into the '09 bag of picks, they don't have the ammo to move up anyway.

Kubiak, Smith, and even McNair have spoken out this offseason in regards to finding a LT to protect Schaub. If one is available that the Texans have a high grade on, I'm certain they will make him their selection. Otherwise, they have to work with what they have and hope Alex Gibbs can preform magic.

aj.
04-19-2008, 08:35 AM
True that AJ, but if I were a Vikes fan I would be less that comfortable with the QB situation. Ferrotte..........not warming the cockles of my heart as the backup.

They have obvious issues at starter and backup.

If the Texans are unwilling to trade one of their backup QBs for a second rounder because they're afraid the starter may not last the season, that's a problem, and an indication that the Texans QB situation is not as good as some may think (*good when healthy). It's not that much different from our current RB1/RB1a situation -- hoping to get one good player-season from two players. Some may call that depth but it feels like a different kind of depth to me.

Sage was not on anyone's radar screen two years ago today. Now he's damm near untouchable. What if Gray gives you 95 cents on the Sage dollar, or even (gasp) out-performs him this summer? You're nuts not to trade one of them. If not, I guess you can lean on the Casserly 'you can never have enough quarterbacks' mantra, knowing that if your starter gets hurt, you have not one but two good backups. Not that 'everything' is wrong with that... It's all about the risk you're willing to accept.

ObsiWan
04-19-2008, 10:14 AM
I f
the Texan's moved up for a top end tackle, that would be a comitment to the QB poition that they've never made before....I'll believe it when I see it.

agreed only a fool or a baseball writer would not recognise that this could be the richest offensive line tallent in NFL draft history. and the Texan's history suggests they will wiff one more time.

You're not making sense. If this draft has "the richest offensive line tallent in NFL draft history", then why should we need to move up?? There should be someone we can use in either the 1st or 3rd round to improve upon our group of "scrubs" (who, by the way, only gave up 22 sacks - 6th in the whole NFL).

If you are right about the abundance of offensive line talent in this draft, there's no need to weaken the team by giving up picks we can't afford to lose to trade up a few spots.


Great #2 Qb is a luxuary. Some of y'all need to make up your minds....do you want to win the division or do you want to stock pile QBs ?

Keeping a quality backup, who is experienced in our offense, is a KEY to winning the division. Its not an impediment to winning the division.
'll go on record as someone who would rather keep the QB that led us to half of our wins rather than trade him for a 3rd round pick in a weak draft.

As I said before, if someone offers up a mid to early 2nd round pick, I think Sage will be sent packing. I doubt that we'll settle for less than that.

If by "stockpiling" you're talking about signing Quinn Gray, he came cheap. So cheap, in fact, it makes me suspicious. If he was "all that" why didn't the Vikes or someone else sign him? Let's see what he can do before we trade a known commodity like Sage.

Oh and one last thing, the potential Vikes deal was dead the minute they signed Gus Frerotte so we can stop talking about that.

ChampionTexan
04-19-2008, 10:33 AM
If the Vikes trade for Jared Allen, I doubt they will be in a position to swing any more deals.


Allen is the best player the Chiefs have (including Larry Johnson), and he's barely 26 years old, so trading him would be an absolutely insane thing for them to do.

Lamar Hunt would never have let it happen - hopefully Clark Hunt will carry on in the same tradition, but who knows.

281
04-19-2008, 10:37 AM
sage won't be traded.

ObsiWan
04-19-2008, 10:39 AM
sage won't be traded.

I agree.
Not this year anyway.

J-Russ
04-19-2008, 11:33 AM
sage won't be traded.

Oh, yeah?

Well I think Sage WILL be traded by next week!

*quick someone agree with me*

rmartin65
04-19-2008, 11:35 AM
Oh, yeah?

Well I think Sage WILL be traded by next week!

*quick someone agree with me*

Yea!

I got your back

Norg
04-19-2008, 11:40 AM
sage needs to be traded we dont need 4 QB

and its all about what will make the team better

trade sage and get a player in a postion we need .....

Drew_Smoke
04-19-2008, 12:05 PM
Sage's value will never be higher than it is right now...period.

He has had his chances to be the "man" but where is he?

Some good points have been made here.

Whoever said "strike while the iron's hot" is right on.

We need picks not sentimental faves.

Mr PC
04-19-2008, 12:09 PM
Sage's value will never be higher than it is right now...period.


I love it when people say "period" as if it gives their opinion more weight or something. Imagine Matt goes down again next season (god forbid). Imagine Sage leads this team on playoff run. Your period turns into a comma.

aj.
04-19-2008, 12:11 PM
Allen is the best player the Chiefs have (including Larry Johnson), and he's barely 26 years old, so trading him would be an absolutely insane thing for them to do.

Lamar Hunt would never have let it happen - hopefully Clark Hunt will carry on in the same tradition, but who knows.

If KC can get a 1st and a 3rd this year or a 1st this year and next year's 2nd they'll be all over it.

Allen said a year ago that he wants out of KC. He's franchise tagged this year so there's a risk that KC would lose him to UFA next year - with no compensation. Sounds to me that Allen has played his last in KC and the only remaining question is whether MN pays the hefty price or if some other team like Tampa jumps in.

If it's MN, they won't be trading for a backup QB.

mussop
04-19-2008, 12:58 PM
Kubiak and Smith are going to have to take some calculated risks to get this team competitive.

It just amazes me that it is so easy to pull the trigger to resign Carr for $8 million, release Carr, trade two 2nd round draft picks for Schaub, and then can't pull the trigger on Rosenfels because he is this supposed in the bank commodity.

The Texans have dumped so much into the QB position with 2 guys and it just appears we are still in the same position from an overall team perspective. Which means now the Texans have to have a platoon of QBs to make it through a season that probably means last place in the AFC South with or with Sage.

Please listen to this, Sage as a Texan is not a great investment to get out of the AFC cellar, particularly when you could get a 2nd round pick.

Trading Sage is minimal risk when looking at the big jump the Texans need to make and what impact Sage would be on that jump.

Sure it makes you guys feel better because there is a perceived better backup, but keeping Sage doesn't get the Texans out of the cellar.

There are too many holes to fill to keep such an insurance policy at the QB position.

I have been saying this for years now, but this fascination with the QB position is biggest problem for the Texans.

Besides, Kubiak is supposed to be a QB guru. You can't tell me he can't find another guy on the scrap heap the way he found Sage in the first place.

Great post!

Bubbajwp
04-19-2008, 01:09 PM
I love it when people say "period" as if it gives their opinion more weight or something. Imagine Matt goes down again next season (god forbid). Imagine Sage leads this team on playoff run. Your period turns into a comma.

Well


The Texans are never gonna win a championship with Sage as our QB... Period

281
04-19-2008, 01:41 PM
Oh, yeah?

Well I think Sage WILL be traded by next week!

*quick someone agree with me*

we'll see, my friend.

Mr PC
04-19-2008, 01:47 PM
Well


The Texans are never gonna win a championship with Sage as our QB... Period

Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson

Bubbajwp
04-19-2008, 01:57 PM
Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson

Baltimore Ravens Defense
Tampa Bay Buccaneers Defense

Houston Texans Defense

Mr PC
04-19-2008, 02:32 PM
Baltimore Ravens Defense
Tampa Bay Buccaneers Defense

Houston Texans Defense

That was kind of my point. If the Texans defense continues to improve, the team could make a real playoff run with a QB like Sage. He isnt a HOF QB thats true, but he has a good understanding of the offense and is probably the best backup QB the Texans could ask for. Rex Grossman got to the superbowl. Sage >>> Rex

Drew_Smoke
04-19-2008, 02:51 PM
I love it when people say "period" as if it gives their opinion more weight or something. Imagine Matt goes down again next season (God forbid). Imagine Sage leads this team on playoff run. Your period turns into a comma.

Imagine Matt doesn't go down? My period still means Sage has had his chances.

We need picks and if we can trade a second stringer for some/a 2nd then do it.

And period means an opinion has more weight? Well alrighty then. I'll start using it everytime I'm right.

Thanks for the clarification. I feel so much better now.

PHAROAH
04-19-2008, 03:54 PM
Trade the Bum while he is worth something we have a guy with winning experience in Quinn Gray let's pick the extra pick so that we can draft a running back in round #2 and now we can address the Secondary or Pass Rusher in round #1.

Bubbajwp
04-19-2008, 05:02 PM
That was kind of my point. If the Texans defense continues to improve, the team could make a real playoff run with a QB like Sage. He isnt a HOF QB thats true, but he has a good understanding of the offense and is probably the best backup QB the Texans could ask for. Rex Grossman got to the superbowl. Sage >>> Rex

The main reason I think we should trade Sage is so we can continue to build our defense.

1 olinemen
The rest of the draft Defense.

ObsiWan
04-20-2008, 01:26 AM
Trade the Bum while he is worth something we have a guy with winning experience in Quinn Gray let's pick the extra pick so that we can draft a running back in round #2 and now we can address the Secondary or Pass Rusher in round #1.

I'd rather trade Gray. Since he's the "guy with winning experience" he should be worth even more, right?
oh wait, nobody wanted him as a free agent.
gee... wonder why?

Thorn
04-20-2008, 05:32 AM
Glad it’s only six more days to the draft so we’ll have something real to talk about. I can’t wait for the inevitable explosions here (including mine, I confess).

aj.
04-20-2008, 09:24 AM
The Vikes will have all of their '08 draft picks intact if this happens (and they will have Allen - but maybe not until next week):

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/20/absent-trade-vikes-likely-to-sign-allen-after-draft/

nero THE zero
04-20-2008, 09:41 AM
I'd rather trade Gray. Since he's the "guy with winning experience" he should be worth even more, right?
oh wait, nobody wanted him as a free agent.
gee... wonder why?

He had been to GB and Oakland and was scheduled to visit Buffalo after he left here, but don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion.

threetoedpete
04-20-2008, 10:34 AM
Move up with what? A phantom 2nd round pick from a deal that will never take place? The Texans only have 5 draft picks. Unless they dig into the '09 bag of picks, they don't have the ammo to move up anyway.

Kubiak, Smith, and even McNair have spoken out this offseason in regards to finding a LT to protect Schaub. If one is available that the Texans have a high grade on, I'm certain they will make him their selection. Otherwise, they have to work with what they have and hope Alex Gibbs can preform magic.

We have nasty habit of losing our next years twoes don't we ? Not advocting here ....but...


Will say if the scenario plays out like McClain is suggeting this morning ....they will be in the same kind of Barrel as they were in '05 when they plucked that preenial all pro DT Travis Johnson off the board. So under that circumstance....not out of the realm of possiblities. as I posted I'll believe a trade up when I see it. If anything they'll move down if they can.

I know a lot of you think I'm crazy with the OLT posts....But I think, truely belive, that if MS is going to advance in his developement the last thing he needs is to repaly HWSNBN. We payed alot for MS beyound the salary. The second two is stinging us this draft. Lot of franchise capitol will go up in smoke if MS get killed next year. I protect that back first thing above and beyond everything else...just me re-doing another face of the franchise in two seasons holds no appeal to me. I'm funny that way.

Silver Oak
04-20-2008, 12:22 PM
very well put 3toe. echoes my thoughts exactly.

as many can recall, before MS took the two brutal shots, he was on a pace to be in the top 3-4 passers. Building a strong OL is necessary for this offense to develop.

awtysst
04-20-2008, 12:49 PM
Will say if the scenario plays out like McClain is suggeting this morning ....they will be in the same kind of Barrel as they were in '05 when they plucked that preenial all pro DT Travis Johnson off the board. So under that circumstance....not out of the realm of possiblities. as I posted I'll believe a trade up when I see it. If anything they'll move down if they can.

In 2005 we had the chance to select LT Jammal Brown. He is now a solid Probowl caliber Tackle. We did not have to move anywhere, we could have taken in in our spot. We even could have taken Alex Barron after the trade was made but we didn't. Barron would have been a solid addition to our Oline. We had 1 very good choice and one very solid choice staring us in the face and we didn't pull the trigger. I don't think this year will be like that. If we have a solid OT on the board in round 1 we will take him.

Insideop
04-20-2008, 02:28 PM
In 2005 we had the chance to select LT Jammal Brown. He is now a solid Probowl caliber Tackle. We did not have to move anywhere, we could have taken in in our spot. We even could have taken Alex Barron after the trade was made but we didn't. Barron would have been a solid addition to our Oline. We had 1 very good choice and one very solid choice staring us in the face and we didn't pull the trigger. I don't think this year will be like that. If we have a solid OT on the board in round 1 we will take him.

And right now that's looking like a big IF. I just hope the one they (Kubes/Smith/Gibbs) want falls to them. If Williams or Albert is there, I think they take either of them. I'm not sure about any of the others in the 1st round. Most of them have too many "warts," as ttp likes to say. If both of them are gone, then it becomes a question of how much they value who's left at any position, or do we trade down. This is where I think a trade of Sage may come into play.

So, with the #18 pick, if:

1) there is a LT we want (Williams, Albert, etc..) we take him. If not then..
2) take a player we value at another position if available. If not then..
3) take a trade down offer if available. If not then..
4) take a trade (Sage) for a draft pick or picks. If not then..
5) :gun:

Well, we'll see in just 6 more days! :texflag:

bckey
04-20-2008, 02:42 PM
Move up with what?

Kubiak and Smith could possibly move up with Sage instead of offering draft picks. Chicago needs a qb and so does Baltimore. We could possibly trade Sage to Chicago for their 3rd and a swap of 1st round positions which would put us at #14. OR Maybe we could send Sage to Baltimore for a swap of our 1st round pick for theirs and nothing else. You don't get an additional pick but you are sure to land a pretty good prospect at LT, DE, CB, LB or RB. Not sure either team would do a deal like that but it is not so far out that it couldn't happen. If Matt Ryan is gone by #8 then Baltimore just might want to move back.

Bubbajwp
04-20-2008, 03:03 PM
Kubiak and Smith could possibly move up with Sage instead of offering draft picks. Chicago needs a qb and so does Baltimore. We could possibly trade Sage to Chicago for their 3rd and a swap of 1st round positions which would put us at #14. OR Maybe we could send Sage to Baltimore for a swap of our 1st round pick for theirs and nothing else. You don't get an additional pick but you are sure to land a pretty good prospect at LT, DE, CB, LB or RB. Not sure either team would do a deal like that but it is not so far out that it couldn't happen. If Matt Ryan is gone by #8 then Baltimore just might want to move back.

The only reason for trading up is if theres a LT that they feel they just have to have. Anything other than that and they should just stay their and take what ever DE,LB,DB that falls.

bckey
04-20-2008, 03:05 PM
The only reason for trading up is if theres a LT that they feel they just have to have. Anything other than that and they should just stay their and take what ever DE,LB,DB that falls.

I agree. I wish the draft would hurry up already.:crying:

ObsiWan
04-20-2008, 03:16 PM
He had been to GB and Oakland and was scheduled to visit Buffalo after he left here, but don't let the facts get in the way of your opinion.

And this was his best (only?) offer - barely over league minimum for his experience/position.

My point still stands: If I traded of anyone for picks it would be Gray; not Rosenfels.

As for what I actually think will happen...?
We'll stand pat and take the OT or DB who falls to us. Unless by some miracle Mendenhall or Stewart is still available. Then we go RB.

That's my SWAG (Scientific Wild-A$$ Guess for you non-geeks)

ubecool454
04-20-2008, 03:42 PM
Sage needs to remain a TEXAN!!

Not if we can get back in the second round he doesn't.

nero THE zero
04-20-2008, 03:48 PM
And this was his best (only?) offer - barely over league minimum for his experience/position.

Well, if I understand the situation correctly, his offer couldn't be any worse as he got the minimum. Which is what makes the situation so curious and makes you wonder if there wasn't an under-the-table-agreement regarding his and Sage's futures with the team. Unless there is something about Houston that he likes enough to take a lesser role and possibly smaller contract, which would be odd to say the least.

The Pencil Neck
04-20-2008, 05:29 PM
And this was his best (only?) offer - barely over league minimum for his experience/position.


From my understanding it WAS league minimum.

That's why I'm surprised he didn't at least go to Buffalo just to see if they'd offer more than league minimum.

nero THE zero
04-20-2008, 05:59 PM
From my understanding it WAS league minimum.

That's why I'm surprised he didn't at least go to Buffalo just to see if they'd offer more than league minimum.

Or take Green Bay's offer where he is guaranteed the same contract with a better chance to start.

ObsiWan
04-20-2008, 07:47 PM
Gray is a Florida boy. I'd bet money that Houston is probably as far north as he wants to live. Plus, there are a few Florida guys on our squad that he knew, if I remember his quotes from when he signed

nero THE zero
04-20-2008, 08:35 PM
Gray is a Florida boy. I'd bet money that Houston is probably as far north as he wants to live. Plus, there are a few Florida guys on our squad that he knew, if I remember his quotes from when he signed

Competitive nature is something essential to a successful athlete and if a player is willing to settle in a lesser role, with a much lesser chance to start, just to be in a preferred climate or closer to home then he doesn't have much of a competitive nature.

It's not like he's a superstar, looking for a superstar contract, and has the luxury of playing where he feels most comfortable. He's a journeyman QB playing for the veteran minimum. In Green Bay he would have been slated as the number 2 behind a bad, unproven, oft injured QB. In Buffalo he would have been number 2 (assuming Losman is traded/released) behind an unproven QB in Edwards. Either situation would have been better than playing behind Schaub and Rosenfels.

I just don't buy the fact that he settled for less, or equal, money in the worst situation possible because he prefers a warm climate. That doesn't add up.

AnthonyE
04-20-2008, 08:47 PM
Competitive nature is something essential to a successful athlete and if a player is willing to settle in a lesser role, with a much lesser chance to start, just to be in a preferred climate or closer to home then he doesn't have much of a competitive nature.

It's not like he's a superstar, looking for a superstar contract, and has the luxury of playing where he feels most comfortable. He's a journeyman QB playing for the veteran minimum. In Green Bay he would have been slated as the number 2 behind a bad, unproven, oft injured QB. In Buffalo he would have been number 2 (assuming Losman is traded/released) behind an unproven QB in Edwards. Either situation would have been better than playing behind Schaub and Rosenfels.

I just don't bye the fact that he settled for less, or equal, money in the worst situation possible because he prefers a warm climate. That doesn't add up.

Maybe he wanted an opportunity to work with a QB guru in Kubiak.

Goldensilence
04-20-2008, 09:07 PM
That was kind of my point. If the Texans defense continues to improve, the team could make a real playoff run with a QB like Sage. He isnt a HOF QB thats true, but he has a good understanding of the offense and is probably the best backup QB the Texans could ask for. Rex Grossman got to the superbowl. Sage >>> Rex

Two years later no playoffs. Notice something about all those 3 teams? Yes two of the three won but had significant fall offs afterwards. I'll pass on the dominant defense in favor on a well balanced team that consistantly makes the playoffs.

I'm on board with a Sage trade if we can get a second or swap him for a move up to get a good LT.

nero THE zero
04-20-2008, 09:11 PM
Maybe he wanted an opportunity to work with a QB guru in Kubiak.

Maybe. I don't know how much attention our 3rd QB is getting so far as development goes though. I don't think Shane Boyd's poised to make a play somewhere.

I could be wrong though.

HPF Bob
04-20-2008, 09:14 PM
Maybe he wanted an opportunity to work with a QB guru in Kubiak.

And maybe he's been quietly assured that he won't be the #3 quarterback.

ObsiWan
04-20-2008, 11:26 PM
From HT.com...
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4229

Brooke Bentley: You had a phenomenal game here last year. You threw for over 300 yards and no interceptions. You also have some friends here like Andre Johnsonhttp://assets.houstontexans.com/images/relatedicon.gif (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4229#). That’s got to make it an easier transition?

Quinn Gray: It makes it a whole lot easier to come to a team where you know some guys. Andre played in Jacksonville with Anthony Maddoxhttp://assets.houstontexans.com/images/relatedicon.gif (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4229#). Travis Johnsonhttp://assets.houstontexans.com/images/relatedicon.gif (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4229#) played in Tallahassee at Florida State. You know, I know quite a few of the guys on the team and I’m looking forward to the opportunity to start with a fresh start.


...and maybe he does think he can unseat Sage as the #2 man, who knows...

AnthonyE
04-20-2008, 11:28 PM
Hell, maybe he just loves our state-of-the-art facilities. lol

J-Russ
04-21-2008, 08:33 AM
Competitive nature is something essential to a successful athlete and if a player is willing to settle in a lesser role, with a much lesser chance to start, just to be in a preferred climate or closer to home then he doesn't have much of a competitive nature.


Some people are just so ignorant... it's like they never been in a competitive sport before, or competed for something before in their life.:rolleyes:

Why don't you guys look through Quinn's eyes for a moment.

You're a 28 year old QB, you've been in the league for 5 years. You're coming off a career game and entering FA that has a weak QB class. You get offers from 5 different team, but you choose the lowest offer, wanting to settle as the 3rd string? Just because he want to learn under sensei Kubiak? Just because he has friends here? Yea, I'm sure he doesn't have friends anywhere else but Houston. I'm sure these are his only reason for coming here. I mean forget about getting more money, or getting a bigger role somewhere. Who needs those when you have friends and a great QB coach.:rolleyes:

Thorn
04-21-2008, 08:46 AM
Just wondering, but has Quinn been interviewed and asked why he signed with the Texans?

HoustonFrog
04-21-2008, 09:19 AM
I'm waiting for Sage to turn into future HOFer who we shouldn't even accept a 1st rounder for....:rolleyes:

nunusguy
04-21-2008, 09:58 AM
I dunno, what should Kubiak do if Shanny calls him up in the afternoon of the 26th and says we're going to take LT Chris Williams with out #12, but we'll
swap picks with you right now if you send us Sage ?

Vinny
04-21-2008, 10:40 AM
And maybe he's been quietly assured that he won't be the #3 quarterback. I'm of the mind that Rosenfels will be traded if the stars line up on draft day. Let's say a team in the top 13 are looking at Matt Ryans and they don't like the other QB's...perhaps they have already told the Texans they would make a deal for Rosenfels for their 3rd rounder (or whatever). The team that needs a QB doesn't have to force a pick and still get a guy who can start with the pick they send to the Texans. The Texans couldn't make that Gentleman's deal without having Quinn under contract, ready to back up Schaub.

barrett
04-21-2008, 11:05 AM
I'm waiting for Sage to turn into future HOFer who we shouldn't even accept a 1st rounder for....:rolleyes:

I'd get a comfortable chair and a good book.

HoustonFrog
04-21-2008, 11:08 AM
I'd get a comfortable chair and a good book.

Well some here are turning him that way. The transformation has slowly headed that way.

ChampionTexan
04-21-2008, 11:19 AM
I dunno, what should Kubiak do if Shanny calls him up in the afternoon of the 26th and says we're going to take LT Chris Williams with out #12, but we'll
swap picks with you right now if you send us Sage ?

Probably ask him why he's drunk/high on draft day (although this could explain Maurice Clarett and a few other things about recent Denver drafts). Cutler's entrenched as the starter, and Patrick Ramsey's a decent NFL backup QB.

Ignoring the likeliness - or lack thereof - of the offer, he may well say yes. It guarantees him a player I believe the Texans covet and wouldn't get otherwise, and if you look at the PFT trade chart, 18 for 12 is roughly equal to getting a very late 2nd rounder for Sage.

TEXANRED
04-21-2008, 11:19 AM
Did something happen? Why did the title to this thread change?

PapaL
04-21-2008, 11:30 AM
Did something happen? Why did the title to this thread change?

Uhh it says Sage to Baltimore. Though it did say Rosenfels Traded Before the Draft? (or something like that).

Hervoyel
04-21-2008, 12:11 PM
Threads get merged together when they're closely related in subject matter. It keeps the board from having 6-7 threads about the same thing going at one time.

I imagine someone merged it with the older existing thread.

Specnatz
04-21-2008, 12:12 PM
Did something happen? Why did the title to this thread change?

Uhh it says Sage to Baltimore. Though it did say Rosenfels Traded Before the Draft? (or something like that).

Nope someone thought it would be fun to start a new thread and a new rumor because we did not have enough of that in the first place. This thread was started when McNair retired.

steelbtexan
04-21-2008, 02:24 PM
I f
the Texan's moved up for a top end tackle, that would be a comitment to the QB poition that they've never made before....I'll believe it when I see it.

agreed only a fool or a baseball writer would not recognise that this could be the richest offensive line tallent in NFL draft history. and the Texan's history suggests they will wiff one more time.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

ChampionTexan
04-21-2008, 02:38 PM
I couldn't have said it better myself.

Then please explain - what do you mean by "Wiffing", and what about the Texans history (current regime only please) suggests they will "wiff"?

Texan_Bill
04-21-2008, 02:50 PM
Listening to Lance Z. this morning, he did a review of all 32 teams and their draft picks over the last 6 years. It was his opinion that the Texans wouldn't even be in the top 10 of worst drafts over that time period. He cited 4th round picks like DDW who gave the Texans way more production than could have been anticipated. He even threw out Jerome Mathis as a guy who was picked in the 4th round who was productive in his rookie year, by making the Pro-Bowl and being named an All-Pro. CC Brown (love 'em or hate 'em) was mentioned and has been a starter. Add in Chester Pitts, Dunta Robinson, DeMeco Ryans, etc., etc...

Yes, there have been a lot of misses, but to say the Texans have blown all their drafts is pretty short-sighted. Other teams have fallen woefully shorter than the Texans in the drafting department. Hopefully with the new regime - those misses will further and fewer in between.

TexansSeminole
04-21-2008, 03:19 PM
I think the Texans should take a 3rd for him. We only have 5 draft picks this year and honestly, Sage wasn't all that great last year. Yea he made some plays, but he also threw alot of interceptions, and just errant passes. He's really lucky he didn't throw more. I think Sage is a great backup, but I don't think he is a starter.

I was watching that Tennessee vs Houston game and that come back really wasn't Sage's doing. He threw an interception on his first pass. He also threw one to Bulluck later on, and almost another one to a linebacker toward the end of the game. Just really bad decisions. He was late on quite a few throws, and honestly that throw he made to Andre Davis at the end was Andre Davis' play.

The receivers made some great plays, and ran some great routes. Walter was killing the guy covering him. Sage missed alot of passes to receivers; he was either late or just didn't hit the receiver. Sage played well, but even in that performance I wouldn't label him a starting quarterback. You just can't stare receivers down or you will get intercepted ... ALOT.

badboy
04-21-2008, 03:35 PM
I am truly shocked at the reasons some of you are floating on why Quin signed with Texans. He has seen the passion and the words of wisdom and insight expressed on this MB. How could any player turn a ridiculously cheap contract down with no off the record promise of being #2 and know how kindly he will be treated by the fans of this board?

Goldensilence
04-21-2008, 04:33 PM
I am truly shocked at the reasons some of you are floating on why Quin signed with Texans. He has seen the passion and the words of wisdom and insight expressed on this MB. How could any player turn a ridiculously cheap contract down with no off the record promise of being #2 and know how kindly he will be treated by the fans of this board?

I'll throw my reason too. He heard people on this board LOVE backup Qbs.

Corrosion
04-21-2008, 04:36 PM
I think the closer to the draft we get the more Sage's value climbs and one of those teams with a huge questionmark at QB ... Minn , GB , Balt , Chiago (couple others less likely to be involved) may panic and give up the farm (#2or 3) for Sage . He did play pretty well last season (Sometimes better than MS) and could probably step into one of those situations and do well ... Would I hate to see him go ? Absolutely . Would I pull the trigger for the right deal ? Absolutely .

Mr PC
04-21-2008, 05:43 PM
The Vikings already offered pick #73 in this year's draft for Rosenfels and the Texans turned that offer down. Kubiak obviously understands Sage's value to this team, more so than some of the fans do. That means pretty much the only way Sage will be traded is if a team offers a draft pick higher than #73, which is not likely to happen.

El cabezon
04-21-2008, 06:06 PM
I got an of the wall idea...how about if we move up by sending Sage to Baltimore for the 8 pick and they can have our 18....Would that work?

J-Russ
04-21-2008, 06:35 PM
I don't know how it works in the new draft chart, but moving from 18 to a top ten pick would usually take a 2nd a 1st this year and next year, maybe a 3rd this year.

Now is Sage worth a future 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd draft pick?

BTW, I pulled that number out of my ***, but when you make that kind of jump in draft selection, its usually something crazy like that.

Errant Hothy
04-22-2008, 10:45 AM
The Vikings already offered pick #73 in this year's draft for Rosenfels and the Texans turned that offer down. Kubiak obviously understands Sage's value to this team, more so than some of the fans do. That means pretty much the only way Sage will be traded is if a team offers a draft pick higher than #73, which is not likely to happen.

Speaking of the Vikings there are rumors out there they offered there first and third rounders for Jared Allen, plus a pick next year...kinda kills the SAge trade rumors if it happens.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/Home_NFL.aspx

The Vikings have reportedly increased their offer to the Chiefs for franchise player Jared Allen.

Minnesota allegedly now has its first-round and third-round picks this year and a 2009 second-rounder on the table. The Vikes were previously offering only their 2008 first- and third-rounders. Assuming a contract can be agreed upon, Kansas City seems likely to take them up on the new proposal.

Source is a pay site.

Vinny
04-22-2008, 11:05 AM
I don't know how it works in the new draft chart, but moving from 18 to a top ten pick would usually take a 2nd a 1st this year and next year, maybe a 3rd this year.

Now is Sage worth a future 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd draft pick?

no, not even close

alphajoker
04-22-2008, 11:20 AM
I don't know how it works in the new draft chart, but moving from 18 to a top ten pick would usually take a 2nd a 1st this year and next year, maybe a 3rd this year.

Now is Sage worth a future 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd draft pick?

no, not even close

Not to hijack this thread, but who in the NFL would even warrant that type of consideration? At least for a 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd round pick in one draft. First name comes to mind is Peyton or LT, but in reality, I just don't see it happening.

Texan_Bill
04-22-2008, 11:45 AM
Not to hijack this thread, but who in the NFL would even warrant that type of consideration? At least for a 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd round pick in one draft. First name comes to mind is Peyton or LT, but in reality, I just don't see it happening.

A: Hershel Walker.. :whip:

Thorn
04-22-2008, 11:54 AM
Sage is worth at least a 2nd, but not all that! LOL

Well, Saturday is getting closer. I guess we'll find out soon enough if the Texans pull the trigger on a trade.

awtysst
04-22-2008, 01:38 PM
Not to hijack this thread, but who in the NFL would even warrant that type of consideration? At least for a 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd round pick in one draft. First name comes to mind is Peyton or LT, but in reality, I just don't see it happening.

Nobody is worth a first, second, and third. I cant think of any player worth more than a first quite frankly. LT is getting up there in age and so is Peyton so I would not trade a first rounder for either of them. If I was gonna trade a first, Id like to get a young solid player who would be dominant years from now. Marcus McNeil, the SD LT comes to mind as an example.

Specnatz
04-22-2008, 01:52 PM
A: Hershel Walker.. :whip:

Ricky is upset you did not mention him.

Signed


Ricky Williams.

El Tejano
04-22-2008, 02:18 PM
Ricky is upset you did not mention him.

Signed


Ricky Williams.

He said one draft, not one drag, Ricky!!!!

barrett
04-22-2008, 03:28 PM
Nobody is worth a first, second, and third. I cant think of any player worth more than a first quite frankly. LT is getting up there in age and so is Peyton so I would not trade a first rounder for either of them. If I was gonna trade a first, Id like to get a young solid player who would be dominant years from now. Marcus McNeil, the SD LT comes to mind as an example.

interesting... you wouldn't consider Manning or Brady (who are hardley old) worth your first three picks?

i'm not saying i would but i'd certainly think about it.

Drew_Smoke
04-22-2008, 03:29 PM
Sage & our #1 to move up in the top 10.....you heard it here first.

badboy
04-22-2008, 03:34 PM
Speaking of the Vikings there are rumors out there they offered there first and third rounders for Jared Allen, plus a pick next year...kinda kills the SAge trade rumors if it happens.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/Home_NFL.aspx



Source is a pay site.Why does getting Jared Allen kill a trade for Sage? Allen should be a very good player and expensive but part of Sage's "attractiveness" is his contract costs and two years left. If Vikes give a 1st & 3rd for Allen and a 2nd for a possible QB starter or a solid B/up, sounds a good deal to me.

Errant Hothy
04-22-2008, 03:36 PM
Why does getting Jared Allen kill a trade for Sage? Allen should be a very good player and expensive but part of Sage's "attractiveness" is his contract costs and two years left. If Vikes give a 1st & 3rd for Allen and a 2nd for a possible QB starter or a solid B/up, sounds a good deal to me.

Because I don't think they are the Redskins, meaning I think they would like to hold onto some of their draft picks. The have other needs besides DE and QB.

badboy
04-22-2008, 03:40 PM
interesting... you wouldn't consider Manning or Brady (who are hardley old) worth your first three picks?

i'm not saying i would but i'd certainly think about it.If Texans had 1st, 2nd and 3rd and we had neither Schaub or Sage, I would not give those picks for any QB. Especially with what we have seen Kubes do with a scrap heap QB like Sage. I would probably go LT @18, QB in 2nd and a CB in third.

badboy
04-22-2008, 03:44 PM
Because I don't think they are the Redskins, meaning I think they would like to hold onto some of their draft picks. The have other needs besides DE and QB.I agree they need picks but they have already bumped the offer (see your link) to include a high round pick 2009. You may hold he picks, but the team think Allen is worth a 1st & 3rd. The only thing we should look at is the 2nd rd selection. To the Vikings, it comes down to what they would value as priority, a QB or ? Their remain intriguing players in 4th and 5th.

Maddict5
04-22-2008, 05:35 PM
Ravens fans, you may finally have your quarterback of the future: Chad Henne. I made him the 20th pick in my mock first round Monday, chosen by Baltimore after a trade with Tampa Bay. And after talking to Henne at length Monday night, the idea seems pretty plausible.

"They seem to like me a lot, but you never know,'' the 22-year-old Henne said from his Pennsylvania home. "I think I'm a pretty good fit there. I kind of stressed with them my ability to come in and play right away, because I've been through it already [as a four-year starter at Michigan].

from MMQB... no sage imo but possible trade down partner?

J-Russ
04-22-2008, 10:29 PM
VIKES GIVE UP THREE 2008 PICKS FOR ALLEN
Posted by Mike Florio on April 22, 2008, 11:17 p.m.

Holy crap.

The Vikings, according to Adam Schefter of NFL Network, surrendered their first-round pick in the 2008 draft and both third-round selections for Chiefs defensive end Jared Allen.

The Chiefs will now add the No. 17, No. 73, and No. 82 overall selections to the No. 5, No. 35, and No. 66 picks, giving them six selections among the first 100 picks.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/

but they didn't throw in their 2nd round pick.... you know why.. :shades:

Ok, really. Forget Minnesota, onto Green Bay and Oakland and etc.

DiehardChris
04-22-2008, 10:44 PM
Why is anyone even mentioning Minnesota since they signed Gus Frerotte??

J-Russ
04-22-2008, 10:46 PM
Why is anyone even mentioning Minnesota since they signed Gus Frerotte??

Wow. Did you read that to yourself before typing it?

DiehardChris
04-22-2008, 10:48 PM
No, and I didn't read through seven pages of posts before I typed it either. Sue me.

Wolf
04-22-2008, 11:27 PM
maybe the Vikings think that Brad Childress (who coached mcNabb) and Kevin Rogers (Qb coach that coached at VT) and or Darell Bevell(OC that was Favre QB coach) can put their heads together for a game plan on improving the Qb's of the Vikes .. and can improve the team better than haven't Sage and missing a 2nd rounder (being Ukede is out)
:thinking:


and if not, they might still try to take a shot at Sage

Wolf
04-22-2008, 11:34 PM
maybe the Vikings think that Brad Childress (who coached mcNabb) and Kevin Rogers (Qb coach that coached at VT) and or Darell Bevell(OC that was Favre QB coach) can put their heads together for a game plan on improving the Qb's of the Vikes .. and can improve the team better than haven't Sage and missing a 2nd rounder (being Ukede is out)
:thinking:


and if not, they might still try to take a shot at Sage

LOL I just read the thread about Jared Allen and the 3 picks the vikes gave up

bckey
04-23-2008, 12:03 AM
A 2nd rounder for Sage would have improved the Vikings more than giving up their 1st and 2 3rds for Allen. A lot more. What are they thinking.

Wolf
04-23-2008, 12:15 AM
A 2nd rounder for Sage would have improved the Vikings more than giving up their 1st and 2 3rds for Allen. A lot more. What are they thinking.

Not a bad deal and a great bargain, I wish I would have thought of that

signed
Mike Lynn

http://min.scout.com/2/11653.html

Señor Stan
04-23-2008, 10:11 AM
LOL I just read the thread about Jared Allen and the 3 picks the vikes gave up

Cue the "Sage to the Chiefs" thread in 3...2...1...

awtysst
04-23-2008, 10:21 AM
interesting... you wouldn't consider Manning or Brady (who are hardley old) worth your first three picks?

i'm not saying i would but i'd certainly think about it.

No i wouldnt. Peyton is 32 and Brady is 30. If they play another 5 years, then I would have severely stunted my team by giving up 3 potential starters. On the other hand a LT like McNeil is only 24 and he can play for another 12 years. I might consider a first for him, but only someone like that. Young and solid.

Maddict5
04-23-2008, 12:04 PM
No i wouldnt. Peyton is 32 and Brady is 30. If they play another 5 years, then I would have severely stunted my team by giving up 3 potential starters. On the other hand a LT like McNeil is only 24 and he can play for another 12 years. I might consider a first for him, but only someone like that. Young and solid.

i doubt mcneill lasts 12 yrs.. iirc he has a narrowing of the spine (which caused him to fall to the 2nd rd in the first place)

Mr teX
04-23-2008, 12:16 PM
maybe the Vikings think that Brad Childress (who coached mcNabb) and Kevin Rogers (Qb coach that coached at VT) and or Darell Bevell(OC that was Favre QB coach) can put their heads together for a game plan on improving the Qb's of the Vikes .. and can improve the team better than haven't Sage and missing a 2nd rounder (being Ukede is out)
:thinking:


and if not, they might still try to take a shot at Sage

To my knowledge, that's only worked a hand full of times in the history of the league, Favre being the most recent. Generally, it usually turns out bad for the coach. If they're smart like kubes was after his 1st year here dealing with DC, they'll go ahead & make a move b/c Jackson isn't the answer & Ferotte damn sure isn't.

RTP2110
04-23-2008, 02:19 PM
How about Rosenfels to KC now? With the trade today, KC now has 3 3rd rounders along with thier 2nd and 4th. Seems like they have plenty of mid round ammo to entice the Texans.

Vinny
04-23-2008, 02:25 PM
How about Rosenfels to KC now? With the trade today, KC now has 3 3rd rounders along with thier 2nd and 4th. Seems like they have plenty of mid round ammo to entice the Texans.
why would they want to load up on another mediocre QB that has limited upside...they have that in Brody.

Second Honeymoon
04-23-2008, 02:31 PM
if the chiefs package their 3!! 3rd Rounders they could move up into the late first or 2nd Round and possibly get as many as 3 OL in the first 2 rounds. That would completely retool their OL and allow them to get back to Chiefs football of running behind great OL. I would imagine they will be dealing some more to turn their 3rd Rounders into possibly another 1st or maybe 2nd rounder. To get 2 1st Rounders, a 2nd and 3 3rd Rounds is really nice. That is even better than an expansion team gets. I think they did really well trading Allen when his value can't be any higher.

HOU-TEX
04-23-2008, 02:42 PM
Good grief, Saturday needs to get here faster. :)

Maddict5
04-23-2008, 02:56 PM
i think we need to start an 'All encompassing Sage thread' :)

El Tejano
04-23-2008, 03:16 PM
i think we need to start an 'All encompassing Sage thread' :)

Do you know what your asking for?

Silver Oak
04-23-2008, 03:25 PM
this thread is more a statement on the little bit of trade bait this team has, rather than will Sage get traded or not.

heaven help us when we get some real depth...this board may implode due to trade rumors.

Vinny
04-23-2008, 03:45 PM
this thread is more a statement on the little bit of trade bait this team has, rather than will Sage get traded or not.

heaven help us when we get some real depth...this board may implode due to trade rumors.
If the team didn't secure Quinn I don't think most of us would think Sage would be on the block.

Texan_Bill
04-23-2008, 03:57 PM
Good grief, Saturday needs to get here faster. :)

No kidding!!! :gun:

Texan_Bill
04-23-2008, 05:12 PM
Sweeeeet!! I killed this thread, I killed this thread!!

:bguitar: :coolb: :jumpbanan :banana:


:locked:

Joe Texan
04-23-2008, 08:12 PM
Sage is here to stay thread would be nice, And truthfull

J-Russ
04-23-2008, 08:55 PM
Sage is here to stay thread would be nice, And truthfull

*crickets*

Wolf
04-24-2008, 01:20 PM
That's what I've been saying as well. Green Bay has two 2nd rounders and a bad QB with no back-up. They're essentially in the same position as the Vikings were pre-Frerotte (which doesn't do much for me itself) with more picks in our desired range, considerably less holes to fill and a young, contending team which could use a plug-and-play QB. If they offered us #60 for Sage I think we'd have to take it.

Culpepper visits Packers

GREEN BAY -- Daunte Culpepper, one of the Green Bay Packers' chief rivals from his days with the Minnesota Vikings, could be the favorite to become Aaron Rodgers' top backup.

The 31-year-old veteran quarterback visited the Packers on Wednesday, and there's a chance the two sides will strike a deal before this weekend's draft. Culpepper arrived in Green Bay on Tuesday evening and spent most of Wednesday at the team's facility.

"We had him in for a visit, and it was a good visit," Packers General Manager Ted Thompson said late Wednesday afternoon. "We wanted to kind of introduce ourselves to him and he to us, so it went fine."


http://www.wisconsinrapidstribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080424/WRT02/804240685/1829

window could be closing IF the Texans were interested to shopping Sage.. Anyway should be a good QB battle in TC

ATXtexanfan
04-24-2008, 05:43 PM
only way sage is traded is when someone falls in training camp after the draft

Thorn
04-24-2008, 05:54 PM
If Sage is not traded this Saturday, then I don't look for him to be traded afterwards unless someone is willing to pay a very steep price.

Our starting QB has yet to prove he is a legitimate starter in the NFL and I just really don't see us trading Sage at all anyways.

Texanmike02
04-24-2008, 06:11 PM
I don't have any allegiance to any player on the roster really. Basically I expect ANY player to be traded ANYTIME someone offers us something of greater value. I love the players on the roster but nobody, not AJ not DR (either of them), not Mario... NOBODY is untradable just based on their play on the field. Now there are certain players that become untradable based on their salary but Sage's contract is VERY tradable. I don't know why its really such a sore spot for many of us. We are lucky to have a talanted backup who has a very tradable contract. It gives us flexiblity. We may all perceive the value of a player to be different but at some point he is tradable.

Take Peyton Manning. Its outrageous to think of trading him but if you were Indy would you trade him for say the best MLB in the game? What about the best MLB/DE combo? MLB/DE/1st pick in the draft? At some point the offer gets outrageous enough to consider trading Peyton. I'm not suggesting that either team would ever make that move, I'm just saying that there should be NO player that you ever say "we won't trade him no matter what". Not if your goal is to win games/superbowls.

That's why I don't understand the "sage is here to stay" talk. It is really "Sage is here until someone offers us more than he's worth to us" which may in fact be never.


Mike

adam
04-25-2008, 09:38 AM
why would they want to load up on another mediocre QB that has limited upside...they have that in Brody.

To compare Rosenfels to Brody is almost offending. How many games did Brody win for his team last season? Hell, how many did Schaub win for his team last season?

Vinny
04-25-2008, 09:49 AM
why would they want to load up on another mediocre QB that has limited upside...they have that in Brody.To compare Rosenfels to Brody is almost offending. How many games did Brody win for his team last season? Hell, how many did Schaub win for his team last season?Brody is a very young QB that doesn't have much of a different skillset than Rosenfels has. Neither guys are elite guys and many probably think that Brody has more upside than Sage does (Croyle was drafted a round earlier than Rosenfels). Croyle is just a younger Rosenfels.

adam
04-25-2008, 10:31 AM
Brody is a very young QB that doesn't have much of a different skillset than Rosenfels has. Neither guys are elite guys and many probably think that Brody has more upside than Sage does (Croyle was drafted a round earlier than Rosenfels). Croyle is just a younger Rosenfels.

I wouldn't call either player elite, but I would certainly say that Croyle is more mistake prone than Rosenfels and even less inclined to make a big play over the top. Granted, Croyle is very young and has room for development, only time will tell whether or not he becomes a solid player. However, for the time being, I don't think the two are really even comparable.

Errant Hothy
04-25-2008, 10:38 AM
I wouldn't call either player elite, but I would certainly say that Croyle is more mistake prone than Rosenfels and even less inclined to make a big play over the top. Granted, Croyle is very young and has room for development, only time will tell whether or not he becomes a solid player. However, for the time being, I don't think the two are really even comparable.

Even though Croyle (6) threw half the number of INTs that Sage (12) did, in basically one less game (30 attempts or so difference with Sage having more)?

The big play you are probably right about, in that Sage tends to make them more freguently then Croyle.