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TexanSam
04-14-2008, 11:20 PM
Just thought it would be interesting to see who you think is the Texans best and worst draft picks over the years.

This has a list of all the draft picks we've made over the years

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Houston_Texans_draft_selections

Here's my best and worst

Best:

1. Andre Johnson - The guy should be a superstar but he doesn't get the publicity like other receivers. His time will come though

2. DeMeco Ryans - The guy's going to be a beast for years and years. Many more Pro Bowls to come.

3. Dunta Robinson - Before his injury he was on his way to being a top flight CB IMO. Hopefully he can recover back to full speed.

Worst (this list could go on forever. Thanks Casserly):

1. David Carr - Duh.

2. Bennie Joppru - Ugh. I think the only highlight I remember from him is during the 2006 training camp or mini camp and he made a good catch in the end zone. In fact, that's the only time I think I've seen him on the field period.

3. Jason Babin - I can't remember what exactly we gave up to trade up and grab him, but it was way too much.

4. Tony Hollings - Another waste of a 2nd rounder

5. Vernand Morency - Waste of a 3rd rounder

What are you best and worst picks by the Texans?

I think it's too early to put Mario as one of the best picks yet. He had one average to slightly below average year in 2006 and a good year in 2007.

Trap_Star
04-14-2008, 11:29 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnRb1X_bGMw

"nuff said..." LMAO!

Ckw
04-14-2008, 11:30 PM
Just thought it would be interesting to see who you think is the Texans best and worst draft picks over the years.

This has a list of all the draft picks we've made over the years

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Houston_Texans_draft_selections

Here's my best and worst

Best:

1. Andre Johnson - The guy should be a superstar but he doesn't get the publicity like other receivers. His time will come though

2. DeMeco Ryans - The guy's going to be a beast for years and years. Many more Pro Bowls to come.

3. Dunta Robinson - Before his injury he was on his way to being a top flight CB IMO. Hopefully he can recover back to full speed.

Worst (this list could go on forever. Thanks Casserly):

1. David Carr - Duh.

2. Bennie Joppru - Ugh. I think the only highlight I remember from him is during the 2006 training camp or mini camp and he made a good catch in the end zone. In fact, that's the only time I think I've seen him on the field period.

3. Jason Babin - I can't remember what exactly we gave up to trade up and grab him, but it was way too much.

4. Tony Hollings - Another waste of a 2nd rounder

5. Vernand Morency - Waste of a 3rd rounder

What are you best and worst picks by the Texans?

I think it's too early to put Mario as one of the best picks yet. He had one average to slightly below average year in 2006 and a great year in 2007.

fixed*

gtexan02
04-14-2008, 11:34 PM
CC Brown, Fred Bennett, and Owen Daniels are two of my favorites. They aren't our best players, but to getsolid starters out of late picks is always a boost.

ChampionTexan
04-14-2008, 11:53 PM
Somewhere on this list should be the name of Charles Hill. He was a DL drafted in the third round of the '02 draft. He was cut prior to the Texans first regular season game.

Picked by an expansion team in the third freakin' round, and he can't make it out of training camp? That's some fine pickin' there CC & Dom!

Another nit to pick on this is that Joppru needs a huge asterick if he should be on this list at all. No injury history in college, and no evidence to say what kind of pro he would have been. The case for CC being incompetent in virtually every phase of his job is quite strong without including the unfortunate Mr. Joppru.

Norg
04-15-2008, 12:28 AM
If we hadent picked david carr who would u have choosen ?????? has a QB how would of we know David would be a bust he was at the time looked like a sure fire good pick

YellerLotYeller
04-15-2008, 12:38 AM
If we hadent picked david carr who would u have choosen ?????? has a QB how would of we know David would be a bust he was at the time looked like a sure fire good pick

Boselli was a sure fire pick too.

TexanSam
04-15-2008, 12:39 AM
If we hadent picked david carr who would u have choosen ?????? has a QB how would of we know David would be a bust he was at the time looked like a sure fire good pick

Julius Peppers...

Wolf
04-15-2008, 01:11 AM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48915

best worst .funny stuff

about #1 draft pics..

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48411

RipTraxx
04-15-2008, 01:14 AM
Julius Peppers...

Second that

YellerLotYeller
04-15-2008, 01:47 AM
Julius Peppers...

Can you prove Peppers would have been a better pick than Carr?
:sarcasm:

DiehardChris
04-15-2008, 01:52 AM
If we hadent picked david carr who would u have choosen ?????? has a QB how would of we know David would be a bust he was at the time looked like a sure fire good pick

This is not hindsight for me - because I'm a firm believer in building up your O and D-lines before anything else... Peppers was by far the best choice of any offensive or defensive linemen (and really, the ONLY one that could have been justified at that time as the #1 overall pick.) So by my way of thinking, Peppers was the way to go.

That said - if Peppers doesn't rebound and have a few more great years, you can't say in retrospect he would have been worth the top overall pick either. He should be in the prime of his career right now.

beerlover
04-15-2008, 02:04 AM
Worst

1. Tony Hollings was easily the worst. total of 4 games played @ RB, then coming off a season ending ACL. not only was he supplemental pick I doubt he would have been drafted & it cost the Texans the first pick of the 2nd rd.

2. Jason Babin, productive small school prospect, undersized with short wingspan 3rd/4th rd prospect moved up & traded almost the whole draft to get the Titans 1st rd. pick thus helping them re-tool on the run.

3. David Carr, #1 overall not such a reach at the time but like stated in many threads unless the guy is true franchise QB you don't spend a top 5 or even top 10 on a guy like that.

Best

1. Mario Williams, in the face of all that pressure they resisted popular demand & made the right selection, that takes guts. not only that he turned out to be the once in a decade defensive lineman.

2. Dunta Robinson, excellent cb best in draft above DeAngelo Hall, could have taken Ben Rothelisberger but he would have been wasted behind that OL.

3. Amobi Okoye, great young DT with tons of upside. very lucky he dropped to #10 IMO. passed on a great LB Patrick Willis, but with DeMeco as our starting MLB it made sense to give Mario a running mate & look what happened.

TEXANRED
04-15-2008, 06:51 AM
All time worst.

1. Charles Hill - 3rd

2. Jason Babin - 1st

3. Tony Hollings - 3rd

4. Seth Wand - 3rd

5. David Carr -1st

Jabar Gaffney gets an honorable mention.

Who am I kidding, the 2003 and 2004 draft was horrible. I list them all except for DRob and AJ. No wonder we went 2-14 in 05.

Best moves

1. AJ

2 Ryans

3 DRob

4 Winston

5 Williams

Bennett gets an honorable mention

OD gets an honorable mention.

BigBull17
04-15-2008, 07:17 AM
CC Brown, Fred Bennett, and Owen Daniels are two of my favorites. They aren't our best players, but to getsolid starters out of late picks is always a boost.

So, three guys are your 2 favorite picks... Those are all solid picks. Ill add Winston, DDW, and Faggins as well. For a CB drafted so low to even be on the team as long as he was is pretty cool. Ill also add Mario, because some teams would have felt pressured to take the glammer girls instead.

Julius Peppers...

Bryant McKinnie(sp) the LT for Minnisota.

TEXANS84
04-15-2008, 08:00 AM
If he hadn't had his career shortened, Domanick Davis in the 4th round was a great pick at the time.

El Tejano
04-15-2008, 10:12 AM
I've saw where someone said Charles Hill and Vernand Morency were busts but both were taken in the 3rd round and they are still playing on the teams they are with. Charles Hill actually had a great year last year with Tampa Bay and Morency has been a very solid servicable back for Green Bay.

As for bad picks:

Jason Babin
David Carr
The rest are the bad FAs Casserly brought in.

Good picks:

Owen Daniels
Eric Winston
Domanik Davis
Dunta
Andre
Demeco
Freddie B

The Pencil Neck
04-15-2008, 10:21 AM
I've saw where someone said Charles Hill and Vernand Morency were busts but both were taken in the 3rd round and they are still playing on the teams they are with. Charles Hill actually had a great year last year with Tampa Bay and Morency has been a very solid servicable back for Green Bay.

I think you've got Charles Hill and Greg White confused.

I think Greg White was a 7th round pick for us (?).

Bubbajwp
04-15-2008, 10:22 AM
OMG http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKi5-P0EiRg&feature=related

Seriously though D Davis was a steal. for awhile.

HOU-TEX
04-15-2008, 10:23 AM
I've saw where someone said Charles Hill and Vernand Morency were busts but both were taken in the 3rd round and they are still playing on the teams they are with. Charles Hill actually had a great year last year with Tampa Bay and Morency has been a very solid servicable back for Green Bay.

As for bad picks:

Jason Babin
David Carr
The rest are the bad FAs Casserly brought in.

Good picks:

Owen Daniels
Eric Winston
Domanik Davis
Dunta
Andre
Demeco
Freddie B

FYI, Hill was a Panther last season and didn't play 1 game. I believe you're thinking of Greg White. He ran around Salaam (who doesn't) a few times and had 2 sacks.

Morency had 108 rushing yards and 199 receiving yards. He hasn't been a "solid servicable" back either. He's been hurt every year.

Bubbajwp
04-15-2008, 10:24 AM
We probably wouldnt have picked mario williams if we did pick Julius Peppers instead of DC. But could you imagine our Dline


Mario Williams, TJ, Okoy, Juilius Peppers


Holy cow

ChampionTexan
04-15-2008, 10:29 AM
I've saw where someone said Charles Hill and Vernand Morency were busts but both were taken in the 3rd round and they are still playing on the teams they are with. Charles Hill actually had a great year last year with Tampa Bay and Morency has been a very solid servicable back for Green Bay.



I don't know if you're confusing Hill with Philip Buchannon, but the Charles Hill the Texans drafted was signed by the Bears but never played a game for them, and has been out of the NFL since then (2003).

ChampionTexan
04-15-2008, 10:31 AM
We probably wouldnt have picked mario williams if we did pick Julius Peppers instead of DC. But could you imagine our Dline


Mario Williams, TJ, Okoy, Juilius Peppers


Holy cow

In a perfect world, we'd still have drafted Mario because we never signed Anthony Weaver.

Bubbajwp
04-15-2008, 10:33 AM
In a perfect world, we'd still have drafted Mario because we never signed Anthony Weaver.

And we never would have drafted Jason Babin to play OLB in our 3-4.

oh what could have been.

RipTraxx
04-15-2008, 11:51 AM
So, three guys are your 2 favorite picks... Those are all solid picks. Ill add Winston, DDW, and Faggins as well. For a CB drafted so low to even be on the team as long as he was is pretty cool. Ill also add Mario, because some teams would have felt pressured to take the glammer girls instead.



Bryant McKinnie(sp) the LT for Minnisota.

I cant believe Owen Daniels was a 4th rounder!! Guys like a younger dallas clark.

El Tejano
04-15-2008, 11:54 AM
I don't know if you're confusing Hill with Philip Buchannon, but the Charles Hill the Texans drafted was signed by the Bears but never played a game for them, and has been out of the NFL since then (2003).
My bad, I think I am talking about White who we also drafted that same year. I don't know, but one guy was drafted by us and is now playing in Tampa. He had a good game against us this past year.

RipTraxx
04-15-2008, 11:56 AM
My bad, I think I am talking about White who we also drafted that same year. I don't know, but one guy was drafted by us and is now playing in Tampa. He had a good game against us this past year.


only guy i remember was phil buchannon

TexSon
04-15-2008, 12:09 PM
My bad, I think I am talking about White who we also drafted that same year. I don't know, but one guy was drafted by us and is now playing in Tampa. He had a good game against us this past year.

Yeah, Greg White. I believe he was "Mr. Irrelevant" that year.

The Pencil Neck
04-15-2008, 12:33 PM
My bad, I think I am talking about White who we also drafted that same year. I don't know, but one guy was drafted by us and is now playing in Tampa. He had a good game against us this past year.

That was Greg White.

Not a 3rd round pick but a 7th round pick. Set the Texan pre-season sack record and then was cut by us. Bounced around. I think he ended up in Arena Football and played for Gruden's brother's team and then got a chance at Tampa Bay this year.

The Pencil Neck
04-15-2008, 12:34 PM
Yeah, Greg White. I believe he was "Mr. Irrelevant" that year.

We took 2 more guys after him. Last guy we took was Milford Brown.

TexSon
04-15-2008, 12:52 PM
We took 2 more guys after him. Last guy we took was Milford Brown.

Didn't we take Brown in the supplemental draft? I think we had to give up a sixth for him.

The Pencil Neck
04-15-2008, 12:53 PM
Didn't we take Brown in the supplemental draft? I think we had to give up a sixth for him.

Yes. I read it wrong. Milford Brown was a supplemental pick and Ahmad Miller was our last pick of 2002.

My bad.

Trap_Star
04-15-2008, 07:19 PM
We probably wouldnt have picked mario williams if we did pick Julius Peppers instead of DC. But could you imagine our Dline


Mario Williams, TJ, Okoy, Juilius Peppers


Holy cow

had we taken peppers, these could of probably been our future 1st round picks.

02: Peppers
03: Palmer
04: Fitzgerald or Roy Williams
05: Carlos Rogers
06: Hawk
07: Okoye

rmartin65
04-15-2008, 07:23 PM
You gotta throw Mathis in there as one of the best. He did make a pro bowl.

infantrycak
04-15-2008, 07:31 PM
You gotta throw Mathis in there as one of the best. He did make a pro bowl.

No you don't when the oft injured miscreant couldn't make himself useful enough to even stay on the roster. Owen Daniels is a great 4th round gem as was DD. Mathis is someone who could have been and pissed it away.

rmartin65
04-15-2008, 08:04 PM
No you don't when the oft injured miscreant couldn't make himself useful enough to even stay on the roster. Owen Daniels is a great 4th round gem as was DD. Mathis is someone who could have been and pissed it away.

He made it to the pro bowl. That is value. He could have been better, but a fourth round pick making the pro bowl? He has to be on here. How many Texans drafted players have made the pro bowl?

Warren
04-15-2008, 08:31 PM
Charles Hill actually made the team his rookie year (2002) but played sparingly other than special teams. He never made another regular season roster other than the Berlin Thunder and the Orlando Predators. He was healthy and since he couldn't survive the cut with another NFL team, it wasn't (just) a case of him not fitting the system or being poorly coached when he was here -- he's just not an NFL player. For the 83rd pick in the draft, that's pretty bad and has to merit serious consideration for the Texans' worst pick ever. Even Tony Hollings managed to earn an NFL paycheck for a few years.

By the way, Greg White had eight sacks last year for the Bucs. White racked up a lot of frequent flyer miles bouncing around on practice squads, camp rosters, arena ball, and NFL-Europe before finally making it in Tampa Bay.

mussop
04-15-2008, 08:42 PM
If we hadent picked david carr who would u have choosen ?????? has a QB how would of we know David would be a bust he was at the time looked like a sure fire good pick

David Carr did not look like a sure fire good pick. Everyone except the Texans front office thought Peppers was the #1 rated player in that draft. It was a horrible decision to draft a QB the first year. Even if Bosseli would of worked out. We should of signed a veteran QB like Dilfer and built the trenches up.

There were alot of QB's coming out in the following years that would of been better choices than Carr. Because of Capers success in Carolina, Casserly got over confident and went for our FRANCHISE QB. It cost him his job and us lots of heart ache. Thank god thatís all over and we finally have people running our team that have things in perspective.

Vinny
04-17-2008, 07:36 PM
Charles Hill actually made the team his rookie year (2002) but played sparingly other than special teams. He never made another regular season roster other than the Berlin Thunder and the Orlando Predators. He was healthy and since he couldn't survive the cut with another NFL team, it wasn't (just) a case of him not fitting the system or being poorly coached when he was here -- he's just not an NFL player. For the 83rd pick in the draft, that's pretty bad and has to merit serious consideration for the Texans' worst pick ever. Even Tony Hollings managed to earn an NFL paycheck for a few years.

By the way, Greg White had eight sacks last year for the Bucs. White racked up a lot of frequent flyer miles bouncing around on practice squads, camp rosters, arena ball, and NFL-Europe before finally making it in Tampa Bay.
Glad to see you here Warren....I was a bit shocked when we released White after his huge sack day in the preseason. My theory back then was that he wasn't overly bright after hearing him speak.

TheRealJoker
04-17-2008, 07:42 PM
Glad to see you here Warren....I was a bit shocked when we released White after his huge sack day in the preseason. My theory back then was that he wasn't overly bright after hearing him speak.

If I remember correctly the C & C claimed that White's sacks were "easy" sacks which made it easier to cut him. But I am of the opinion that 4 sacks is 4 sacks any way you slice it...

Wolf
04-17-2008, 08:20 PM
If I remember correctly the C & C claimed that White's sacks were "easy" sacks which made it easier to cut him. But I am of the opinion that 4 sacks is 4 sacks any way you slice it...

now we know the real "sacks" where the ones running the show (minus Bob and he was learning the NFL way)

Warren
04-17-2008, 08:31 PM
Glad to see you here Warren....I was a bit shocked when we released White after his huge sack day in the preseason. My theory back then was that he wasn't overly bright after hearing him speak.Thanks. Kind of like Steve Foley, who supposedly wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer either, but had 10 sacks for the Chargers a year after having none for the Texans.

In fairness to the Texans, White was on the Bucs' practice squad, the Falcons' practice squad, the Titans' practice squad, the Saints' camp and practice squad, the Redskins' practice squad, the Cologne Centurions, the Bears' camp, and the Orlando Predators before finally making the Bucs' roster. He also had the second most forced fumbles in the NFL last year with seven. An overnight success... five years in the making.

infantrycak
04-17-2008, 09:38 PM
Thanks. Kind of like Steve Foley, who supposedly wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer either, but had 10 sacks for the Chargers a year after having none for the Texans.

In fairness to the Texans, White was on the Bucs' practice squad, the Falcons' practice squad, the Titans' practice squad, the Saints' camp and practice squad, the Redskins' practice squad, the Cologne Centurions, the Bears' camp, and the Orlando Predators before finally making the Bucs' roster. He also had the second most forced fumbles in the NFL last year with seven. An overnight success... five years in the making.

Welcome aboard as well. Love to see the hpf guys around here (except for sly).

Texans Horror
04-17-2008, 11:21 PM
Dre and Carr. Best and worst. Nobody has done more for one side of the ball, and the team in general, than Dre. No player hindered the Texans more than Carr.

Both were Casserly picks.

hadaad
04-18-2008, 11:01 AM
Best:
1. Domanick Davis: we thought we were getting a return specialist and a guy to spell Stacy Mack. We got much more.
2. Andre Johnson: He was #3 over-all but he has meant that much and more to our team over the long haul.
3. DeMeco Ryans: How he lasted into the second round, I'm not sure but I am very glad we ended up with him.
4. Demarcus Faggins: Yes, I know. I know. But how many 6th rounders make their team, let alone starting for stretches (even if it's not all that spectacular)?
5. Mario Williams: He has actually played like a #1 overall pick.
6. Dunta Robinson: Our best d-back since he's been on the team.
7. Owen Daniels: Very productive.

Worst:
1. David Carr: #1 over all, never got comfortable in any of the offenses and then lost his mind.
2. Tony Hollings: I want to punch someone in the face for this.
3. Charles Hill: Uh... yeah.
4. Jason Babin: He was okay as a player -- especially in that first game against SD but dear lord, the price...
5. Dave Ragone: We'll give up a first-day pick for a quarterback who we'll keep as a #3 until we release him. FANTASTIC!
6. Vernand Morrency: Ugh.
7. Jabbar Gaffney: if only because of who else was still available.

Hooston Texan
04-18-2008, 11:20 PM
A couple of my personal groundrules in this analysis:
1. The Hakeem Rule: if you get a good player with your pick, it is not a bad pick even if there is (arguably) a better player available. The difference must be tremendous.
2. The Tom Brady Rule: I won't denigrate a pick unless the "shoulda drafted" player was taken shortly thereafter.
3. The Mathis/Spencer rule: injuries or legal problems are forgiven unless the player had a known history at the time of the pick.
4. The I'm Trying to Have a Life Rule: didn't look at 6th round or later. Also didn't undo trades or supplemental picks.

With those rules, here's my roll-call:

THE BEST OF THE BEST
Demeco Ryans--a near-immediate Pro-Bowler in the second round.
Owen Daniels--a solid starter in the fourth round
Domanick Williams/Davis--another fourth round find
Mario--memo to the rest of the world: go screw yourselves. This gets rated ahead of AJ's pick because of all the assumptions that we'd take Bush or Vince!.

GOOD, SOLID PICKS
Andre Johnson--you should get a great player with the #3 pick
Dunta Robinson--thank goodness the Falcons had a thing for Hokies and thus saved us from drafting Me-Angelo.
Jerome Mathis--the Mathis Rule keeps this from being a dud.
Eric Winston--did some good medical investigative work to land a guy once projected as a first-rounder
Fred Weary--not a stunningly great pick, but none of the next 15 or so picks were very distinguished, so under the Tom Brady Rule, this goes down as a decent pick.

QUESTIONABLE
Chester Pitts--in a liberal reading of the Hakeem Rule, I overlook the fact that Clinton Portis went a couple of picks later.
Travis Johnson (the pick, not the trade)--the latter half of the first round that year was a wasteland (best of the rest: Jason Campbell, Aaron Rogers, Fabian Washington), so I can't denigrate the pick itself too much. But trading down when we could have drafted Jamaal Brown or Derrick Johnson? :brickwall:

THE BAD PICKS (this will take awhile)
Jabar Gaffney--Dallas took Andre Gurode five picks later. Wouldn't it have been nice to get an All-Pro to anchor your young O-line?
Jonathan Wells--Alex Brown was one of many, many decent-to-great DEs we missed out on during the Casserly era. Would have been great value for a fourth-round pick.
Jarrod Baxter--only a 5th round pick, but did an expansion team need to draft a fullback in its first draft? Andra Davis--a decent LB--was taken a few picks later.
Bennie Joppru--to get the benefit of the Mathis Rule, you have to show something, anything on the field. The list of players taken shortly thereafter is heartbreaking: Ken Hamlin, Drayton Florence (thug), Kawika Mitchell, Osi Umenyiora, Anquan Bolden. Probably should be in the next category.
Seth Wand--at least we were trying to fix the OL. Not alot drafted right behind him, but Ricky Manning was a good corner.
Glenn Earl--on another team, he probably doesn't stick. Jared Allen went four picks later. Another great pass-rusher passes us by . . .
Ramon Walker--Never heard of him, but you might have heard of the guy taken three picks later: Aaron Kampmann

WHY, GOD? WHY?!?
David Carr--add Julius Peppers to the list of pass-rushers that we were too sexy for.
Charles Hill--inexcusable for an expansion team to draft a guy in the third round who can't make the team. Anyone think that Akin Ayodele or (gulp) Brian Westbrook could have helped us?
Antwan Peek--OK, he was somewhat productive for us, but Lance Briggs and Jason Witten were the next two picks.
Dave Ragone--what a waste of a first-day pick. If you wanted a QB project, a far-better lefty (Chris Simms) was on the board. Or, if you wanted a useful player at another position, you could have had Chris Brown, Angelo Crowell or Justin Fargas
Jason Babin--this is more for the trade as the picks immediately behind Babin were nothing to write home about. But, oh, if we'd have kept our second-rounder, we could have done the entire NFL a favor and snatched Bob Sanders away from the Colts.
Vernand Morency--and there goes another pass-rusher, this time, Justin Tuck. Basically, we passed on the entire New York Giant front seven (minus Strahan).


TOO SOON TO TELL:
Charles Spencer
The Class of 2007

Little wonder we only just now notched our first non-losing season. And, yes, I know that some of those DEs we passed on would not have fit a 3-4. But that was some wretched drafting. And I'm going to grimace whenever I see a highlight of those Giant defenders pounding on Tom Brady during the Super Bowl.

TexanSam
04-18-2008, 11:23 PM
THE BEST OF THE BEST
Demeco Ryans--a near-immediate Pro-Bowler in the second round.
Owen Daniels--a solid starter in the fourth round
Domanick Williams/Davis--another fourth round find
Mario--memo to the rest of the world: go screw yourselves. This gets rated ahead of AJ's pick because of all the assumptions that we'd take Bush or Vince!.

GOOD, SOLID PICKS
Andre Johnson--you should get a great player with the #3 pick


I would switch Mario and Andre. It's too early to say Mario is one of the best picks the Texans have made. He's had one very good season and one "meh" season. Andre Johnson is one of the best receivers in the NFL.

Hooston Texan
04-18-2008, 11:37 PM
I would switch Mario and Andre. It's too early to say Mario is one of the best picks the Texans have made. He's had one very good season and one "meh" season. Andre Johnson is one of the best receivers in the NFL.

A fair criticism, but I'm giving them more credit for Mario because of the way they bucked the near-universally prevailing wisdom. Still, the story of the 2006 draft is still unfolding . . .

D-ReK
04-18-2008, 11:39 PM
A quick list of 5 on both sides and a defense of player I've seen mentioned a few times:

Good:
1. Andre Johnson
2. Mario Williams
3. Dunta Robinson
4. Owen Daniels
5. Eric Winston

Bad:
1. David Carr
2. Jason Babin
3. Tony Hollings
4. Charles Hill
5. Dave Ragone

My defense of Jabar Gaffney:
I've seen him listed a few times as a bad pick, but there's no reason to believe that. He was a solid player here who had a lot of potential and would have been, at least, a solid slot receiver here, or at best a good compliment to AJ. We're using the same type of player in that role now with Kevin Walter. Gaffney was a great value at 33 (he had been projected as high as 9th overall), but he was a victim of poor QB play. We know how bad Carr was at progressing through his reads. Gaffney made his mistakes, like all young players are, but he was 21 through most of his rookie year and needed a bit of maturing. Once he got to a team with a good QB, look what happened. If anyone wants to bring up "OMG we could have had Portis", you should be questioning the Pitts selection, since Portis was taken right after him and Pitts had very little football experience.

ObsiWan
04-19-2008, 12:27 AM
A couple of my personal groundrules in this analysis:
1. The Hakeem Rule: if you get a good player with your pick, it is not a bad pick even if there is (arguably) a better player available. The difference must be tremendous.
2. The Tom Brady Rule: I won't denigrate a pick unless the "shoulda drafted" player was taken shortly thereafter.
3. The Mathis/Spencer rule: injuries or legal problems are forgiven unless the player had a known history at the time of the pick.
4. The I'm Trying to Have a Life Rule: didn't look at 6th round or later. Also didn't undo trades or supplemental picks.

With those rules, here's my roll-call:

THE BEST OF THE BEST
Demeco Ryans--a near-immediate Pro-Bowler in the second round.
Owen Daniels--a solid starter in the fourth round
Domanick Williams/Davis--another fourth round find
Mario--memo to the rest of the world: go screw yourselves. This gets rated ahead of AJ's pick because of all the assumptions that we'd take Bush or Vince!.

GOOD, SOLID PICKS
Andre Johnson--you should get a great player with the #3 pick
Dunta Robinson--thank goodness the Falcons had a thing for Hokies and thus saved us from drafting Me-Angelo.
Jerome Mathis--the Mathis Rule keeps this from being a dud.
Eric Winston--did some good medical investigative work to land a guy once projected as a first-rounder
Fred Weary--not a stunningly great pick, but none of the next 15 or so picks were very distinguished, so under the Tom Brady Rule, this goes down as a decent pick.

QUESTIONABLE
Chester Pitts--in a liberal reading of the Hakeem Rule, I overlook the fact that Clinton Portis went a couple of picks later.
Travis Johnson (the pick, not the trade)--the latter half of the first round that year was a wasteland (best of the rest: Jason Campbell, Aaron Rogers, Fabian Washington), so I can't denigrate the pick itself too much. But trading down when we could have drafted Jamaal Brown or Derrick Johnson? :brickwall:

THE BAD PICKS (this will take awhile)
Jabar Gaffney--Dallas took Andre Gurode five picks later. Wouldn't it have been nice to get an All-Pro to anchor your young O-line?
Jonathan Wells--Alex Brown was one of many, many decent-to-great DEs we missed out on during the Casserly era. Would have been great value for a fourth-round pick.
Jarrod Baxter--only a 5th round pick, but did an expansion team need to draft a fullback in its first draft? Andra Davis--a decent LB--was taken a few picks later.
Bennie Joppru--to get the benefit of the Mathis Rule, you have to show something, anything on the field. The list of players taken shortly thereafter is heartbreaking: Ken Hamlin, Drayton Florence (thug), Kawika Mitchell, Osi Umenyiora, Anquan Bolden. Probably should be in the next category.
Seth Wand--at least we were trying to fix the OL. Not alot drafted right behind him, but Ricky Manning was a good corner.
Glenn Earl--on another team, he probably doesn't stick. Jared Allen went four picks later. Another great pass-rusher passes us by . . .
Ramon Walker--Never heard of him, but you might have heard of the guy taken three picks later: Aaron Kampmann

WHY, GOD? WHY?!?
David Carr--add Julius Peppers to the list of pass-rushers that we were too sexy for.
Charles Hill--inexcusable for an expansion team to draft a guy in the third round who can't make the team. Anyone think that Akin Ayodele or (gulp) Brian Westbrook could have helped us?
Antwan Peek--OK, he was somewhat productive for us, but Lance Briggs and Jason Witten were the next two picks.
Dave Ragone--what a waste of a first-day pick. If you wanted a QB project, a far-better lefty (Chris Simms) was on the board. Or, if you wanted a useful player at another position, you could have had Chris Brown, Angelo Crowell or Justin Fargas
Jason Babin--this is more for the trade as the picks immediately behind Babin were nothing to write home about. But, oh, if we'd have kept our second-rounder, we could have done the entire NFL a favor and snatched Bob Sanders away from the Colts.
Vernand Morency--and there goes another pass-rusher, this time, Justin Tuck. Basically, we passed on the entire New York Giant front seven (minus Strahan).


TOO SOON TO TELL:
Charles Spencer
The Class of 2007

Little wonder we only just now notched our first non-losing season. And, yes, I know that some of those DEs we passed on would not have fit a 3-4. But that was some wretched drafting. And I'm going to grimace whenever I see a highlight of those Giant defenders pounding on Tom Brady during the Super Bowl.

First, let me compliment you on a fantastic post. Excellent work!
But I do have a couple of nits to pick.

First, I must agree that Andre Johnson belongs with the "Best of the Best" no matter where he was picked. We of ALL people should know that being picked in the top five or ten is no guarantee of success.

Second, pencil me in as another defender of Jabar Gaffney. He sure looks solid with Tom Brady chucking to him. Perhaps he wasn't the bad pick but was paired with a suspect QB.

Third, I'm going to give Fred Bennett and Jacoby Jones the benefit of the doubt and place them with the "Good" bunch. For sure Bennett, for sure, has earned his way out of the "Too Soon to Tell" class and there isn't another place to put him. Maybe Jones hasn't quite yet, but I'm feeling generous. :o)

Lastly, you do realize this exercise will drive us all crazy. Every draft is going to have some hits and some misses.

threetoedpete
04-19-2008, 03:59 AM
Worst pick....selecting Tony Bosselli off the Fa board. However CC spins it, that killed this club progress. Set the club up to Fail in mutipul ways. We still haven't recovered from it.

Hooston Texan
04-19-2008, 02:01 PM
A couple of replies here on my late-night magnum opus:

1. Comparisons to other teams. I completely agree that all teams have great picks and busts in some combination. You could play this game for any team. So I can't say if our homerun-to-bust ratio is different from that of other teams. But I suspect we'd be in the bottom half over that time period.

2. Jabar Gaffney. We're going to have to agree to disagree on him. The guy has topped out as a #4 receiver, catching 36 passes last year for the best offense in league history. That's not the stuff of the #33 pick. I agree he may not have been a reach when we drafted him and we did him no favors by saddling him with Carr, but we needed some immediate production out of the second draft pick in franchise history. Even by 2002, the world knew that WRs out of Florida were fools' gold.

3. Hindsight is 20/20. You bet it is. Still, McNair pays his front office tall money to have as much foresight as possible. It appears that he is only now seeing a return on that expenditure.

Mr PC
04-19-2008, 02:52 PM
best:
Andre Johnson
Mario Williams
DeMeco Ryans
Owen Daniels
Fred Bennet


worst:
D. Carr
R. Hollings
B. Joppru
J. Babin
D. Anderson (selected before just before Colston in the 7th round)

Vinny
04-19-2008, 02:54 PM
best:
Andre Johnson
Mario Williams
DeMeco Ryans
Owen Daniels
Fred Bennet


worst:
D. Carr
R. Hollings
B. Joppru
J. Babin
D. Anderson (selected before just before Colston in the 7th round)
Anderson one of the worst picks? No way pards...just because one guy had something in him no other team saw doesn't make Anderson a bad pick....using that logic every team in the NFL drafted busts a few years back because nobody drafted Priest Holmes.

ChampionTexan
04-19-2008, 02:58 PM
Anderson one of the worst picks? No way pards...just because one guy had something in him no other team saw doesn't make Anderson a bad pick....using that logic every team in the NFL drafted busts a few years back because nobody drafted Priest Holmes.


Agreed. It's pretty much impossible for a 7th round pick to be a bust.

Mr PC
04-19-2008, 03:03 PM
I didnt say Anderson was a bust, did I? The question is what are the best/worst draft picks the Texans have made. The Texans were looking for a WR in the 7th round, and we could have had a probowler, but we got David Anderson instead. In my mind, thats a really bad decision.

GuerillaBlack
04-19-2008, 03:19 PM
I didnt say Anderson was a bust, did I? The question is what are the best/worst draft picks the Texans have made. The Texans were looking for a WR in the 7th round, and we could have had a probowler, but we got David Anderson instead. In my mind, thats a really bad decision.

Everyone in the NFL passed up Colston. He was the LAST player taken in the draft.

ChampionTexan
04-19-2008, 03:34 PM
I didnt say Anderson was a bust, did I? The question is what are the best/worst draft picks the Texans have made. The Texans were looking for a WR in the 7th round, and we could have had a probowler, but we got David Anderson instead. In my mind, thats a really bad decision.

You're splitting hairs, and it's still a weak argument. David Anderson is a 7th round pick who's played in 17 games over two years, and is on the roster as we speak. Regardless of who went one pick after him, it's not a bad pick.

Marcus
04-19-2008, 05:33 PM
THE BAD PICKS (this will take awhile)
Jabar Gaffney--Dallas took Andre Gurode five picks later. Wouldn't it have been nice to get an All-Pro to anchor your young O-line?
Jonathan Wells--Alex Brown was one of many, many decent-to-great DEs we missed out on during the Casserly era. Would have been great value for a fourth-round pick.
Jarrod Baxter--only a 5th round pick, but did an expansion team need to draft a fullback in its first draft? Andra Davis--a decent LB--was taken a few picks later.
Bennie Joppru--to get the benefit of the Mathis Rule, you have to show something, anything on the field. The list of players taken shortly thereafter is heartbreaking: Ken Hamlin, Drayton Florence (thug), Kawika Mitchell, Osi Umenyiora, Anquan Bolden. Probably should be in the next category.
Seth Wand--at least we were trying to fix the OL. Not alot drafted right behind him, but Ricky Manning was a good corner.
Glenn Earl--on another team, he probably doesn't stick. Jared Allen went four picks later. Another great pass-rusher passes us by . . .
Ramon Walker--Never heard of him, but you might have heard of the guy taken three picks later: Aaron Kampmann

WHY, GOD? WHY?!?
David Carr--add Julius Peppers to the list of pass-rushers that we were too sexy for.
Charles Hill--inexcusable for an expansion team to draft a guy in the third round who can't make the team. Anyone think that Akin Ayodele or (gulp) Brian Westbrook could have helped us?
Antwan Peek--OK, he was somewhat productive for us, but Lance Briggs and Jason Witten were the next two picks.
Dave Ragone--what a waste of a first-day pick. If you wanted a QB project, a far-better lefty (Chris Simms) was on the board. Or, if you wanted a useful player at another position, you could have had Chris Brown, Angelo Crowell or Justin Fargas
Jason Babin--this is more for the trade as the picks immediately behind Babin were nothing to write home about. But, oh, if we'd have kept our second-rounder, we could have done the entire NFL a favor and snatched Bob Sanders away from the Colts.
Vernand Morency--and there goes another pass-rusher, this time, Justin Tuck. Basically, we passed on the entire New York Giant front seven (minus Strahan).

Anyone find it interesting that those picks were all from the first regime?

And then there's "crap shoot" and "crystal ball".

Must be draft time.:wacko:

ObsiWan
04-19-2008, 07:16 PM
wonder why Wali Lundy didn't make anyone's list...? Is he exempt because he was a 7th round guy? If so, then David Anderson is exempt also.

Hooston Texan
04-20-2008, 12:04 AM
wonder why Wali Lundy didn't make anyone's list...? Is he exempt because he was a 7th round guy? If so, then David Anderson is exempt also.

For my list, I didn't go past the fifth round--out of a combination of laziness on my part and a belief that anything you get from the sixth or seventh round is pure gravy. Lundy gave us a little bit of gravy, so I consider it to be an OK pick. Of course, I also think Smithiak made a mistake keeping Gado over him, but that's a discussion for another time (perhaps never).

ObsiWan
04-20-2008, 01:22 AM
Anderson one of the worst picks? No way pards...just because one guy had something in him no other team saw doesn't make Anderson a bad pick....using that logic every team in the NFL drafted busts a few years back because nobody drafted Priest Holmes.

I wouldn't say Anderson was a "bust"; its just frustrating for some to see what we could have had in Colston.

I used to think that way myself. I've said, "...dang, we couldda had him..." more time than I can count.

But then I realized, that was 2006. HWWNBN was still here. Heck, he barely was able to get the ball to Andre Johnson reliably. So even had we drafted Colston, its likely he wouldn't have blossomed here - not with chuckNduck at the helm. Look how much better Gaffney seemed to produce when he left and went to a team whose QB actually went thru his progressions. ...what a concept!

Mr PC
04-20-2008, 09:52 PM
You're splitting hairs, and it's still a weak argument. David Anderson is a 7th round pick who's played in 17 games over two years, and is on the roster as we speak. Regardless of who went one pick after him, it's not a bad pick.

Not splitting hairs. It has already has been pointed out you cant call anyone who was picked in the 7th round a bust because players taken that late are all considered longshots. That is the reason I dont call Anderson a bust, but do consider him to be a bad pick.

Colston- 2,240 yards, 19 touchdowns
Anderson- 150 yards, 1 touchdown

It stands out especially because the Texans took Anderson in the 7th round with pick #251 and Colston was taken at pick #252, the very next selection after Anderson. Not that I blame Kubiak because nobody not even the Saints knew Colston would be that great in the NFL. But still Anderson is one of the more unfortunate picks I can think of.

TEXANRED
04-21-2008, 07:35 AM
Someone in Panther country really hates David Carr. Did anyone click this little gem after watching the first you tube clip?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKi5-P0EiRg&NR=1

Hooston Texan
04-21-2008, 01:22 PM
On Colston versus David Anderson:

The seventh round is simply a crapshoot, and teams have wildly different lists of players that they are targeting. While most NFL people will be in general agreement about who's in the top 100 or so, when you get to the 250th pick, all such consensuses are gone. Which is why the "we could have drafted ____ instead of the bum we got" exercise becomes increasingly precarious as the draft wears on (my earlier post in this thread on the subject did not consider 6th and 7th round picks).

For a small-school player like Colston, the biggest challenge is sometimes getting on the radar screens of the 32 teams. He clearly had the Saints' attention, but he did not have ours. We instead went with the guy we knew--for whatever reason, the brass was paying close attention to the Colorado State program during that period.

So I'm more likely to ascribe the decision to take Anderson over Colston as a scouting failure rather than a war-room blunder. And by "scouting failure", I don't mean that we considered the two players and erroneously gave a higher grade to Anderson; instead, I mean that we may not have beat the bushes sufficiently to find an unheralded guy out of the many hundreds (thousands) who try to make NFL rosters each year.