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View Full Version : Where is the progress???


the wonger need food
12-07-2004, 01:50 PM
Does anyone really see any progress in this team? Statistically they are better than last year, but their record is the same even with an easier schedule. They have been blown-out more times this year than the first two combined.

Coach Capers laid it on the table going into the locker room for halftime last week. He said the second half is going to show the maturity level of this team. Well, it most certainly did.

We've now lost 4 out of 5 with 3 of those losses being very embarrassing. All of this season's earlier progress has been erased and the team is again labeled as an expansion team.

So if this team goes 6-10 or 7-9, is that progress? Not in my opinion.

The most disturbing part of the equation is that the team has talented players. On defense, they have several pro bowl-caliber players. This is essentially the same defense that was great in 2002. Coach Capers is allegedly a defensive-minded coach, yet this unit continues to disappoint. The offense has talent, as we have seen in spurts this season, but for some reason they cannot put 4 quarters of consistent football together. As a team they have not played a complete game all year.

Bottom line is that changes have to be made if this team is going to mature into a consistent winner. The talent is in place, they now need an X's and O's head coach that can put a 4-quarter gameplan together.

Houston wants a winner and will not settle for anything less. We appreciate everything Dom has done to get this franchise off the ground, but it is time to take it to the next level.

swisher
12-07-2004, 02:13 PM
So if this team goes 6-10 or 7-9, is that progress?

Yes it is. These posts are starting to get really annoying.

ATX
12-07-2004, 02:23 PM
i don't think its the record as much as the improvement. remember last year when the texans were oh so close ot beating the colts and the patriots. now i'd take another 5-11 season if the losses weren't so bad. i mean if we were in the games unitl the 4th quarter and say lost on a fieldgoal, i think that would show improvement over going say 7-9 barely winning the seven and getting beat bad in the 9 losses. in my opinion, we've only dominated one game this season, which was the riaders game, and that could be in part because of collins, but we' just haven't shown the progress, i believe. this has to do with our lackluster effotrs in the second half of games this year. now whether coaches or players fault, we just need to go out and play tough the next 4 games and try to win them all.

bckey
12-07-2004, 02:34 PM
Yes it is. These posts are starting to get really annoying.


These posts too.

swisher
12-07-2004, 03:43 PM
These posts too.


As is this one.

HJam72
12-07-2004, 04:15 PM
7-9 will show progress. I'm not so sure that 6-10 will. In fact, I don't think 6-10 will prove anything, except they haven't gotten worse.

And yes, I know this post is annoying, lol.

LiveForTheGame
12-07-2004, 04:32 PM
It just depends on how they feel in the locker room and as a team. No one knows how well or bad they're actually playing except for them.

TheOgre
12-07-2004, 04:34 PM
Would 9-7 show progress?

rhc564
12-07-2004, 04:37 PM
As is this one.

...somebody making you read posts you don't like or agree with? Freedom
of speech, gotta love it!!!!~ :hmmm:

brickmantexanfan
12-07-2004, 04:54 PM
Does anyone really see any progress in this team? Statistically they are better than last year, but their record is the same even with an easier schedule. They have been blown-out more times this year than the first two combined.

Coach Capers laid it on the table going into the locker room for halftime last week. He said the second half is going to show the maturity level of this team. Well, it most certainly did.

We've now lost 4 out of 5 with 3 of those losses being very embarrassing. All of this season's earlier progress has been erased and the team is again labeled as an expansion team.

So if this team goes 6-10 or 7-9, is that progress? Not in my opinion.

The most disturbing part of the equation is that the team has talented players. On defense, they have several pro bowl-caliber players. This is essentially the same defense that was great in 2002. Coach Capers is allegedly a defensive-minded coach, yet this unit continues to disappoint. The offense has talent, as we have seen in spurts this season, but for some reason they cannot put 4 quarters of consistent football together. As a team they have not played a complete game all year.

Bottom line is that changes have to be made if this team is going to mature into a consistent winner. The talent is in place, they now need an X's and O's head coach that can put a 4-quarter gameplan together.

Houston wants a winner and will not settle for anything less. We appreciate everything Dom has done to get this franchise off the ground, but it is time to take it to the next level.
Encarta defines progress as follows

pro·gress

n [pró grčss, prō grčss]
1. improvement: gradual development or improvement of something
2. motion toward something: movement forward or onward
3. (plural pro·gress·es) royal tour: an official royal tour (archaic)


v [prə gréss, prō gréss] (past pro·gressed, past participle pro·gressed, present participle pro·gress·ing, 3rd person present singular pro·gress·es)
1. vi improve: to develop or advance continuously
2. vi move along: to move forward or onward
3. vt help complete something: to bring something toward completion


[15th century. From Latin progressus , the past participle of progredi “to go forward,” from gradi “to walk.”]


Hope this made it clearer for you to understand.Yes we made progress every single year in the Texans Franchise,so all you negative bottom dwelling scum suckers,need to stop and think abpout your post,this is our 3rd year in the NFL we are aquiring talent and just now getting some talent on the depth chart,just watch the best is yet to come. :hairpull:

Double Barrel
12-07-2004, 05:04 PM
I'm not so sure about calling this season's schedule "easier". Take a look at our games so far:

San Diego Lost 20-27 - Chargers record 9-3
Detroit Lost 16-28 - Lions record 5-7
Kansas City Won 24-21 - Chiefs record 4-8
Oakland Won 30-17 - Raiders record 4-8
Minnesota Lost 28-34 - Vikings record 7-5
Tennessee Won 20-10 - Titans record 4-8
Jacksonville Won 20-6 - Jaguars record 6-6
Denver Lost 13-31 - Broncos record 7-5
Indianapolis Lost 14-49 - Colts record 9-3
Green Bay Lost 13-16 - Packers record 7-5
Tennessee Won 31-21 - Titans record 4-8
N.Y. Jets Lost 7-29 - Jets record 9-3

Out of our 7 losses so far, 6 of them have been to teams with current winning records. The 7th game was to the Lions, which could still have a good shot to make the wildcard spot in a very weak NFC (and could still end up with a winning record this year).

With league parity, any of these teams could be Superbowl contenders.

o.k., let's compare to last year's schedule:

Miami Won 21-20 - Dolphins record 10-6
New Orleans Lost 10-31 - Saints record 8-8
Kansas City Lost 14-42 - Chiefs record 13-3
Jacksonville Won 24-20 - Jaguars record 5-11
Tennessee Lost 17-38 - Titans record 12-4
N.Y. Jets Lost 14-19 - Jets record 6-10
Indianapolis Lost 21-30 - Colts record 12-4
Carolina Won 14-10 - Panthers record 11-5
Cincinnati Lost 27-34 - Bengals record 8-8
Buffalo Won 12-10 - Bills record 6-10
New England Lost 20-23 - Patriots record 14-2
Atlanta Won 17-13 - Falcons record 5-11
Jacksonville Lost 0-27 - Jaguars record 5-11
Tampa Bay Lost 3-16 - Bucs record 7-10
Tennessee Lost 24-27 - Titans record 12-4
Indianapolis Lost 17-20 - Colts record 12-4

So in 2003 we played 6 teams with winning records (two of those teams twice - Colts and Titans).

While in 2004, we've already played 6 teams with winning records, and we still have to play two teams with current winning records (Colts & possibly the Jaguars by then).

It's not like this year's schedule is a walk in the park.

Factor in the fact that they could not put two wins back-to-back last year (already done TWICE this year) and we swept a division opponent for the first time ever, I think we have to look at this year as a potential "success"...provided they win at least 1-2 more games this season.

They ended the 2003 season on a FOUR GAME LOSING STREAK!

HJam72
12-07-2004, 06:25 PM
Would 9-7 show progress?

9-7 would be MAJOR progress.

...and that's from a negative, bottom dwelling scum sucker. :bguitar:

swisher
12-08-2004, 03:48 PM
...somebody making you read posts you don't like or agree with? Freedom
of speech, gotta love it!!!!~ :hmmm:

Its even more annoying when people throw freedom of speech in your face when you DO disagree. :hmmm:

TheOgre
12-08-2004, 03:53 PM
9-7 would be MAJOR progress.

...and that's from a negative, bottom dwelling scum sucker. :bguitar:

That was meant in Jest. I don't think you would find many people, if anyone, that would look at 9-7 as anything but progress.

Texas_Heat
12-08-2004, 04:20 PM
No its even more annoying when some people on this board act like if you don't think everything is ok with this team your not a fan.

Tayton
12-08-2004, 04:54 PM
I have been wondering if we are making progress myself. I'm not sure what the answer is. Are we a better team, probably. Are we playing better, you decide. Whether or not we have an easier schedule is debatable. For the most part we are beating bad teams, losing to average teams, and getting blown out by good teams. Are we a player or two away from being a decent team? I'm a homer and my heart tells me we are, but my head tells me something else. To me the progress question is a fair one. I didn't expect the playoffs, but I had hoped for better this year. I could be wrong but I think that the team thinks they are under achieving this year also.

infantrycak
12-08-2004, 07:58 PM
i'm more disappointed with some "bigger picture" things.

How about telling us what they are?

TexansTrueFan
12-08-2004, 09:01 PM
Oh lord people. I'm SORRY this team didnt deliver a championship to houston this season, but this season has been an improvment, regardless of record ! We have gotten 2 new great starters on defense, and we have seen flashes of hope from the offense this season. So overall i would have to say this season has been fairly successful, and i know we dont all agree but to get mad at people because of their opinions is just dumb !

profan
12-08-2004, 09:26 PM
I think progress has been made over last season, however, it appears the progress has stopped over the past five games. Will wait for the end of the season to make an overall judgement. All the talent is not in place, we need more time with the zone blocking and it should come around, defense needs to play together as we have three rookies and others at different positions, Payne will be back to his old self next season. Next season will determine Capers future with this team and I think we will be a playoff team.

Texans Pride
12-08-2004, 10:08 PM
I posted this message in another thread, but I feel it's relevant to this one as well, so I am going to repost it. I'm sure I will get heat for it, but that's ok. I feel it is important, and needs to be said AGAIN:

Football is a brutal, aggressive, and nasty game. It’s not a game of tennis or polo; it is a game where men beat the tar out of each other and walk away with blood on their jerseys. I for one do not want a bunch of refined gentlemen playing on my team. I want tough, ruthless, monsters that will step on the opposing player because he is in his path, rather than pick them up off the ground.

Where is the fire, where is the point of attack? There is none. Our players use words like please and thank you, and the same goes for our coach as well. Yesterday was the FIRST TIME I’ve seen Capers show any emotion at all. I was so shocked I had to rewind the TIVO just to see it again.

I say bring on the Ray Lewis, the Chad Johnson, and hell yeah, bring me TO! They're jerks, they're rude, they care about themselves, say whatever you want, but one thing you have to say is that they are amazing football players that pump their teams up. Look at the Eagles; they were a good team the last few years. With the addition of TO, they are a great team, and it is because of his attitude and fire that he brings to the table.

GET RID OF THE NICE GUYS, COACH CAPERS AND CHRIS PALMER! THERE IS A REASON THESE PEOPLE DIDN’T HAVE JOBS WHEN THIS TEAM STARTED! I love this team, but it’s not a tennis team or a polo team….IT’S A DAMN FOOTBALL TEAM!

This third year excuse is lame. I don't care if this is your first year or your 60th year in the league. You play 60 FULL MINUTES of football when you head out on that field, you don't quit, and you don't play scared.

I am a Texans fan, hell, I live in a state where I might be one of 10 Texans fans. I catch heat EVERYDAY from my friends and co-workers about this team and I defend them through and through. If you'd like to question my loyality go head!

TexansTrueFan
12-08-2004, 10:28 PM
i dont think you can question a lot of our loyalty to this team ! We all love this team and only complain because we want to see them become a great team, and we have all the weapons to do so, one more off season and everything should be in place ! We have a bright future !

infantrycak
12-08-2004, 10:46 PM
Since the question of difficulty of the schedule has come up, the schedule next year is:

AFC South plus:

Home:
Cleveland
Pittsburgh
Arizona
St. Louis
and currently Kansas City--this spot depends on final standings.

Away
Baltimore
Cincinnati
San Francisco
Seattle
and Buffalo--depends on final standings.

TexansTrueFan
12-08-2004, 10:55 PM
seems like a pretty easy schedule ! about time the patriots had an harder schedule than us !

HardCoreTxn
12-08-2004, 11:06 PM
What do people expect from a 3rd year franchise?!? How many drafts have we been thru?!? How many Veterans do we have?!? Geez let this organization get a little grass under them......we swept Buds Titans, thats a MAJOR improvement, not to mention we kept Priest from scoring, shut down Mcnair/C.Brown and Leftwich/F.Taylor...if you wanna look up stats, look at our TE stats, that is our weakest link by far...15 rec and 1 td between 2 TE's?!? :hmmm:

TexansTrueFan
12-08-2004, 11:11 PM
What do people expect from a 3rd year franchise?!? How many drafts have we been thru?!? How many Veterans do we have?!? Geez let this organization get a little grass under them......we swept Buds Titans, thats a MAJOR improvement, not to mention we kept Priest from scoring, shut down Mcnair/C.Brown and Leftwich/F.Taylor...if you wanna look up stats, look at our TE stats, that is our weakest link by far...15 rec and 1 td between 2 TE's?!? :hmmm:


oh i agree we have a solid foundation, and this team will be special ! the owner and GM have done a good job and i dont think anyone could of done any better !

HardCoreTxn
12-08-2004, 11:34 PM
GET RID OF THE NICE GUYS, COACH CAPERS AND CHRIS PALMER! THERE IS A REASON THESE PEOPLE DIDN’T HAVE JOBS WHEN THIS TEAM STARTED! I love this team, but it’s not a tennis team or a polo team….IT’S A DAMN FOOTBALL TEAM!


I felt the same way the first 2 seasons about Capers, But if anyone's improved for this team he has, I hated his play calling, he was WAY too conservative, but he has taken alot of chances this season and alot of the times it's worked in our favor, Capers may not be one of the best coaches, and by far not a miracle worker, but give the man a chance, at least another year. :soapbox:

"A good leader can take you where you want to go, A great leader takes you where your meant to be"

TexansTrueFan
12-08-2004, 11:39 PM
i think this team can win with capers still here ! next season will be his make or break season !

bckey
12-09-2004, 02:36 AM
I like the way people are willing to give 5 full years before deciding whether someone is doing their job good enough or not. No measuring stick along the way just do your thing. Capers is a loser as a head coach and Palmer is a bigger one. It wouldn't be a setback to bring in a new coaching staff in the offseason it would be a step forward. It wouldn't take much for a new coaching staff to beat this years record by at least 1 game next year so some of you could get your 1 game improvement over the previous year and be happy.

I know. We are an expansion team and this only our 3rd year blah balh blah.


PS-The Texans were tied with 1 other team last year for the toughest schedule.
We won 5 games with probably the most players on ir in the league. Where is
the improvement this year. Heck the 2003 Texans could beat the pants off
the 2004 Texans.

p-money
12-09-2004, 04:06 AM
aight im gonna do something against my better judgement here and tell you that i think the texans have (had) the ability to be a playoff team this year and next. with that said you need a little more talent on both sides of the ball, andre johnson is a stud and carr is pretty good but he is inconsistant. davis is a decent back but you also need to add a redzone back, someone who can catch and or pound it in.

your linebackers are terrible in pass coverage and the secondary plays to soft. consistancy is the key for the texans, you guys will play above your expectaions one week and then have a melt down the next week. in the nfl you have to have a play action threat and the texans as far as ive seen dont, they are far to predictible on play calling.

but all in all for a 3rd year team you guys are hangin in there and will be better for it in the long run if you stick it out with carr and company. as far as firing the coaches goes capers deserves at least another year to get you guys over the hump imo. i think you guys will get there, prob not this sunday but next year should be better than the previous 3.

CrumplerFan
12-09-2004, 05:18 AM
I say bring on the Ray Lewis, the Chad Johnson, and hell yeah, bring me TO! They're jerks, they're rude, they care about themselves, say whatever you want, but one thing you have to say is that they are amazing football players that pump their teams up. Look at the Eagles; they were a good team the last few years. With the addition of TO, they are a great team, and it is because of his attitude and fire that he brings to the table.

GET RID OF THE NICE GUYS, COACH CAPERS AND CHRIS PALMER! THERE IS A REASON THESE PEOPLE DIDN’T HAVE JOBS WHEN THIS TEAM STARTED! I love this team, but it’s not a tennis team or a polo team….IT’S A DAMN FOOTBALL TEAM

What has rudeness to do with football skills? The Eagles added an excellent receiver and got better that way. The didn't look for a jerk to come in and add some fire! As far as i know they considered him a risk for team chemistry because of his Egoism and smash mouthing. But he isn't a better player, cause he's rude,as it sounds like this in your text.

Peyton Manning is a quiet and nice guy compared to monsters like Ray Lewis or a trash-talker Owens. Does that diminish his skills?

Having said that i believe the Texans can every draft pick they can get and one or two FA. Just some quality players to get them closer.

aj.
12-09-2004, 06:05 AM
What do people expect from a 3rd year franchise?!? I expected 7-9 or 8-8. Anything less than 7 wins is a disappointment for me, considering it's been a relatively injury free season up until now.

Next year I expect 9-7. That's what the 4th year Browns did.

It's a fine line. If the Texans had won - say ...one more game so far this season, and were sitting at 6-6 we'd be talking about wild card potential and there wouldn't be all the Capers/Palmer bashing. (what about Fangio?)

On second thought - yes ... there still would be Capers Palmer bashing because if we were 6-6, the haters would be saying why not 7-5?, and if we were 7-5, they'd be *****ing about not being in first place or the stupid Palmer play call that prevented us from being in first place... whatever ... there's still 1/4 of the season to play. Get back to me after the Cleveland game. We have all off season to play owner or GM.

Doug
12-09-2004, 08:04 AM
The last couple of years we pretty much lost to anybody and won a few here and there because we didn't give up, had some luck go our way, or the other team just wasn't up to par and we were able to take advantage...several of the games we won weren't won because we were just that good. I heard a sports announcer say something a few weeks back and it stuck with me and you all can take it how ya like but I see it as an improvement. The announcer had said that the Texans have won the games they are supposed to and lost the ones they were expected to lose (not by Texans fans of course). The blow outs are rediculous and there's no excuse. There were a couple of games we were in and should have won against very good teams but couldn't pull them out because we couldn't stay consistent throughout the game. From what I can see we're not losing to the bad teams anymore. Teams that are on a losing streak don't look at us as a win to break the cycle. Good teams, whether admitted or not, are scared of us because they don't know what to expect. Next year, we will be the surprise team. I'm not giving up on this year yet. If we do go 7-9 I will be exstatic and if not then I'm sure that will be the talk for the next 5 - 7 months so there's plenty of time to discuss it. I don't believe firing people is the answer but a few do need to get their heads out of their rears. Thank you for your time and I'll be here all week. LOL

MichaelMC
12-09-2004, 10:07 AM
Personally I see a lot of progress. People who say they don't must not be really paying attention. Does anyone really think that a team that has only been around 3 years when most of the big play guys everyone keeps saying we need haven't even been here the whole 3 years is supposed to play error free consistant football. If so I don't know what league you have been watching. With everything the Texans have been working through things are going great. As a fan ofcourse I would like to see us in the top of the division headed to the playoffs, but that is a dream not an accoplishable goal at this point in the evolution. We have the first 1000 yard reciever in Texans history and everyone want to say there has to be problems with the offense. We start 3 rookies on defence and everyone says are defence should be a top ten defence. Daunta has inpressed me with not only his pass protection but also his willingness to make a hit. Andre is leading all the best recivers of all time almost when compared with them at the same number of games. DD is a good running back possibly a great running back but they changed the way the line blocks and that takes some adjustment time. That is like someone changing the computer program you use at work to do your job and expecting you to work twice as fast with little training. Most of the people on this board are not only discouraging to the fans but possibly also the players and I think you need to give credit where credit is due.

SESupergenius
12-09-2004, 12:13 PM
The Texans have the Bears and Browns coming up, 2 very winnable games. If we win just one more game then that is 1 more than we had last, so yes it is without any doubt a progress. I pointed out at the beginning of the season that we should call a 6-10 season a success when you factor in that we are starting 3 guys on our offensive line that are playing for the first time at their spots, every year there has been a different rotation of men on the offensive line. Add to that that we are using a new offensive blocking scheme. Carr is in his 3rd year and has one of the younger receiving corps in the league. All this and we havn't even gotten to the defensive side of the ball where as it stands now 8 of the guys playing at their positions where not there a year ago. Thats over 70% of defense in a new positon and some of you expect the playoffs???? I don't get all that. It pretty easy to tell that the Texans lack cohesion and timing. You may look for answers in the coaching ability of Capers, Palmer and Fangio, but it's a pretty glaring reality why we have only 5 wins right now. I'm surprised to see people reaching for clues as to why we are not successfull yet. You can even look at last game when Carr gets nail and then has a neck injury, yet everyone expects him to play like a superstar against a top 5 defense. Now I hear that we have no excuses because we are injury free?? Take a look now, we have 9 guys on the defensive side of the ball that weren't at that position significantly last year.

TexansTrueFan
12-09-2004, 12:23 PM
The Texans have the Bears and Browns coming up, 2 very winnable games. If we win just one more game then that is 1 more than we had last, so yes it is without any doubt a progress. I pointed out at the beginning of the season that we should call a 6-10 season a success when you factor in that we are starting 3 guys on our offensive line that are playing for the first time at their spots, every year there has been a different rotation of men on the offensive line. Add to that that we are using a new offensive blocking scheme. Carr is in his 3rd year and has one of the younger receiving corps in the league. All this and we havn't even gotten to the defensive side of the ball where as it stands now 8 of the guys playing at their positions where not there a year ago. Thats over 70% of defense in a new positon and some of you expect the playoffs???? I don't get all that. It pretty easy to tell that the Texans lack cohesion and timing. You may look for answers in the coaching ability of Capers, Palmer and Fangio, but it's a pretty glaring reality why we have only 5 wins right now. I'm surprised to see people reaching for clues as to why we are not successfull yet. You can even look at last game when Carr gets nail and then has a neck injury, yet everyone expects him to play like a superstar against a top 5 defense. Now I hear that we have no excuses because we are injury free?? Take a look now, we have 9 guys on the defensive side of the ball that weren't at that position significantly last year.


i no longer look at games on the schedule and consider any of the "winnable" ! Cant do that considering we play like a play-off team one wek and a team full of rookies the next week. With alittle added consistency maybe we could, but u'd be crazy to bet money on this team even if they were playing the Arizona Cardnials. All that beign said i still support this team and watch EVERY game so dont call me an unloyal fan, if i was why would i be here !

Texans Pride
12-09-2004, 08:42 PM
What has rudeness to do with football skills? The Eagles added an excellent receiver and got better that way. The didn't look for a jerk to come in and add some fire! As far as i know they considered him a risk for team chemistry because of his Egoism and smash mouthing. But he isn't a better player, cause he's rude,as it sounds like this in your text.

You are correct, rudness doesn't have anything to do with football skills. That is not what I was saying. Over the off season, when players with this "bad attitude" were talked about by the fans, many would say, "Don't bring them here, we don't need that kind of attitude on this team." It seems that people want the good wholesome guys that are rold model citizens.

What I am saying, is I don't care if they are nice guys or not, I don't care if they say please and thank you, I care about thier football playing skills, and that is it! If a guy is a great athlete then I want him on this team, I don't care about anything else. With that being said, I do believe that there is a certain attitude that a player should have. I want a tough, ruthless player, who yes, doesn't give a damn what others think.

But to answer your question. No, being rude doesn't make you a good football player, but having a certain swagger and fire about you sure helps.

texansfan88
12-09-2004, 09:48 PM
yeah you can talk to most college players and some nfl guys

if you have a guy on the team that you can get ticked off once in awhile, it'll make you play better

T.O. is more than likely not well liked on gamedays because he cries about wanting that ball. That makes the other receivers go out there and try to show they're on his level.

Guys like T.O., Al Harris, Ray Lewis, John Henderson, Chad Johnson, and earlier in the year, Steve Smith help get a team fired up to go compete up at his level