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View Full Version : What Team Is One Draft Pick Away From Contention?


Drew_Smoke
04-07-2008, 05:35 PM
Wow...saw this exchange on NFL Live today...

Todd McShay: "The Jets added alot of pieces but if McFadden falls to them, they could be in the playoffs."

Kiper: "I'll go with the Houston Texans. If they can land a running back like Jonathon Stewart, if they could get that one weapon they are missing on offense, I see them having a breakthru year and being in the playoffs."

McShay: I agree...they are one playmaker away from the playoffs."

I told y'all it wouldn't take as long as some of you thought for expert opinions to swing to what we knew was coming....hopefully.

Grid
04-07-2008, 05:52 PM
Dunno if im happy about Kiper backing us.

Kiper's draft boards are usually somewhat accurate.. but his judge of actual talent has been off recently.

The Pencil Neck
04-07-2008, 05:53 PM
Wow.

Mel Kiper?

We're doomed.

This means we fall apart this year.

GuerillaBlack
04-07-2008, 06:16 PM
Wow...saw this exchange on NFL Live today...

Todd McShay: "The Jets added alot of pieces but if McFadden falls to them, they could be in the playoffs."

Kiper: "I'll go with the Houston Texans. If they can land a running back like Jonathon Stewart, if they could get that one weapon they are missing on offense, I see them having a breakthru year and being in the playoffs."

McShay: I agree...they are one playmaker away from the playoffs."

I told y'all it wouldn't take as long as some of you thought for expert opinions to swing to what we knew was coming....hopefully.
Saw it, too. Couldn't believe it. Not like any of us here didn't know that, but to here it from both guys on there was different....especially on ESPN (outside of a guy named Michael Smith).

awtysst
04-07-2008, 06:23 PM
Yeah and as soon as we pass on Jonathan Stewart or another Back and instead go OL, CB, or DL once again we will hear how we have made the wrong choice and the only coverage we get will be negative.

BSofA04
04-07-2008, 06:23 PM
He's setting himself up for disappointment IMO. I can't see the Texans drafting a RB outside Mendenhall when we have gaping holes at LT and secondary. It'll be an easy excuse for him to bash us for messing up his draft board.

Hardcore Texan
04-07-2008, 06:24 PM
Saw it, too. Couldn't believe it. Not like any of us here didn't know that, but to here it from both guys on there was different....especially on ESPN (outside of a guy named Michael Smith).

Wow!

I suppose there are dollar bills on the trees outside.

We are about to see this: :pigfly:

And the Icecapades are showing in hell......


:whip:

Texans_Chick
04-07-2008, 06:35 PM
The Texans are two draft picks away.

They need a playmaking running back and a playmaking secondary player. Those won't necessarily come from the 18th pick.

They can makedo, I believe, on the offensive line of the ball.

I think that 2008 marks yet another year in the offensive system. The offensive line has to get on board with changes, but I've seen enough to think that offensively with a little tweaking, the Texans can be a playoff team.

The defense, however is a boat anchor. The best defensive performances last year were when youngish quarterbacks on the other side of the ball made mistakes. But I dearly hope to see a defense that isn't just trying to mask its many deficiencies and just plays simple stupid ball.

Nothing like Browns TE Kellen Winslow making fun of how simple the Texans defense was BEFORE we played them. It's not trash talk if it is true.

Running game was awful.

Defense was awful, and not just the secondary. The secondary was a complete horror show, so that makes the rest of the defense just normal regular bad as opposed to car accident into a train wreck bad like the secondary.

Ergo, more than one draft pick away. I think a legit running game would take pressure off of the defense, but not enough to mask its deficiencies. I would love to see dominant defense this year, but I am not sure this is the year where the switch gets turned on.

ATXtexanfan
04-07-2008, 06:35 PM
when people say we need a rb i cant help but think they don't know much about the texans

beerlover
04-07-2008, 06:43 PM
do they mean making the playoffs? or in contention for the SB?

the Texans may just make the playoffs regardless who they draft, JS would add talent & depth to the backfield, something we've never had. Gibbs can take a tackle latter he likes to develop & Rhodes lends his expertise with help in the secondary.

now the SB the Texans are at least two or three years away. key will be landing better & better free agents to smart contracts, keeping the core of our team together & drafting smart as the picks rise to the end of each rd.

:texflag:

Hardcore Texan
04-07-2008, 06:47 PM
The Texans are two draft picks away.

They need a playmaking running back and a playmaking secondary player. Those won't necessarily come from the 18th pick.

They can makedo, I believe, on the offensive line of the ball.

I think that 2008 marks yet another year in the offensive system. The offensive line has to get on board with changes, but I've seen enough to think that offensively with a little tweaking, the Texans can be a playoff team.

The defense, however is a boat anchor. The best defensive performances last year were when youngish quarterbacks on the other side of the ball made mistakes. But I dearly hope to see a defense that isn't just trying to mask its many deficiencies and just plays simple stupid ball.

Nothing like Browns TE Kellen Winslow making fun of how simple the Texans defense was BEFORE we played them. It's not trash talk if it is true.

Running game was awful.

Defense was awful, and not just the secondary. The secondary was a complete horror show, so that makes the rest of the defense just normal regular bad as opposed to car accident into a train wreck bad like the secondary.

Ergo, more than one draft pick away. I think a legit running game would take pressure off of the defense, but not enough to mask its deficiencies. I would love to see dominant defense this year, but I am not sure this is the year where the switch gets turned on.

I agree, especially about the defense. We have been the bottom of the barrel or there abouts for a few seasons straight. It baffles me that Richard Smith hasn't seen a sharp blade looking for his whiskers.

Texans_Chick
04-07-2008, 06:47 PM
when people say we need a rb i cant help but think they don't know much about the texans

We do need running back.

We have an old injured guy that could be a June 1 casualty, a guy who has an injury history, a young guy, and another young guy with an injury history.

In other words, the Texans have a bottom quartile running back group for an offense that is supposed to emphasize the running game but hasn't been able to.

We don't necessarily need the fastest back in the draft, but we do need a good decision maker, nice size with good speed. A durable young back.

GuerillaBlack
04-07-2008, 07:43 PM
^^I would like Jonathan Stewart. Hoping he is there at #18.

RipTraxx
04-07-2008, 08:27 PM
I agree, especially about the defense. We have been the bottom of the barrel or there abouts for a few seasons straight. It baffles me that Richard Smith hasn't seen a sharp blade looking for his whiskers.

Amen!

Ryan
04-07-2008, 08:47 PM
Definitely surprised that kiper of all people would take our side, although we will not draft a RB early because that is not our biggest need. Dunta may never play at the same level again, so we need a gamebreaking CB or a franchise LT.

TEXANRED
04-07-2008, 09:07 PM
There are two ways to think about who and which position we should draft first.

First would be to build your team to beat the Colts. After all, if you want to be the man you have to beat the man. If that is the case one of three positions come to mind:

RB: Payton can't score if he's not on the field and a grind it out running game that batters the Colts D is just what the doctor ordered. I think the only way we use the 18th pick on a back is if Mendenhall is there, otherwise we can get a back in later rounds.

DE: Payton can't score if he's got pressure in his face. That is a tested and confirmed statement. He starts to throw a fit and losses his composure. He is no Tom Brady.

CB: Someone needs to be able to cover the slot. Seriously, if I see one more quick slant for a first down I am going to puke.

Then if you look at our division as a whole, and our up coming opponents (***coughVikingscough***) we better be able to stop the run or we are going 2-14 again. So to be able to beat the Jags and Titans we need:

DT: someone that can tie up OL and take up space needs to play next to A.O. He doesn't even have to be athletic, just be there and keep guys off Ryans so he can do his job. I would love to see Ryans get a clean shot at MJD. I dont want to say that these guys are easy to find but they are not first round caliber so would expect us to start looking for this guy on the second day.

DE: Not only do they need to be able to rush the passer but contain. Williams does a good job of that but we are lacking the other half of the field unless Cochran takes a huge step. These type of guys are hard to find, even in the first round, so it wouldn't surprise me at all to see us take a DE in the first if the right player is there.

SS: How nice it would be to get a guy that can play this position. This guy is hard to find and this draft is lite on safeties. I wouldn't expect us to draft one.

Then of course you have to be able to not get your QB killed. This entire unit is a question mark except Winston. Don't know much about Myers, Spencer is a question mark, RG is up in the air, Pitts should be OK, and how much longer can Salaam hold out? IMO Winston should move to LT and maybe try Spencer at RG or RT.

So to sum it up, who the hell knows.

edo783
04-07-2008, 09:31 PM
Helmet hair may just be pitching a RB for us so that he can say "See, all they needed was a running back. If they had listened to me and taken RB when I said they should, they would have been in the playoffs sooner". Probably ouldn't be quit that out spoken, but he would say things that would allude to it.

Fox
04-07-2008, 09:53 PM
It's kinda nice to see us being considered, again, as a team on the rise who could contend next year. Reminds me of some of the articles and talk about this team coming off of our 7-9 season. I think how this team responds to the expectations will be different than last time.

It's interesting to consider the health status of our running backs when you put it into context relative to the rest of the league and the nature of the position itself. No doubt, we have two guys who have major, consistent medical problems, and a third coming off of a knee injury. But then again, these are running backs, they have one of the shortest life spans in the NFL of any position for a reason. They take a beating game in and game out for their entire career, it's not surprising to see them hobbled so often. Look at all of the teams in the NFL, you won't be hard pressed to find 2/3's+ of them have primary backs, or backs who are intended to play a major part in their rotation, who have chronic injury concerns or a history of a significant injury. It's the nature of the position. That said, I do believe we need to acquire a young healthy back in the draft to fill out our rotation.

As to the one pick away, what would get us over the hump... I don't think we're 1 solid pick away, I think we're 1 good draft away from contending. We desperately need a corner, a LT, and a play maker to help out in the backfield, IMO. I think unless a real stud RB falls to 18 we should take the best LT, CB, or if the value for those positions is not there take BPA. I feel like LT and CB are two premium positions who give us the biggest bang for our buck based on our needs and draft position. We have Kubiak and Gibbs running our offense now. One of the benefits to a guy like Gibbs and the zone blocking scheme is you can go find guys, who aren't worth as much to traditional style running teams, who fit your scheme later in the draft and get big production from them. That's an advantage to us because it allows us to take other needs earlier in the draft, IMO. Granted, you can make the case that Gibbs should be able to make a player out of a later round tackle just as I expect him to do with a RB, but I like the top talent at tackle this year. I think RB is deep enough where we can still find a player in the 3rd, 4th, or later who can produce for us.

The bottom line is it's tough to come by premium tackles and CB's in free agency, and there's a decent 1st round crop for both of those positions this year. If we get a little luck and get some help at tackle, CB, and RB I think we could make some noise this year. Can't wait for draft day...... :doot:

TheRealJoker
04-07-2008, 09:58 PM
This is the same Mel Kiper that still thinks we made a mistake passing on Bush...

Trap_Star
04-07-2008, 10:14 PM
Texans + Jonathan Stewart = :yes:

steelbtexan
04-07-2008, 10:15 PM
Spot on TC

I hope we spend #18 on a LT.

The rest of our draft picks should be spent on CB's & DL

Texans_Chick
04-07-2008, 10:38 PM
Spot on TC

I hope we spend #18 on a LT.

The rest of our draft picks should be spent on CB's & DL

I take the Texans at their word that they are a best player available type of team. (with the very few exceptions of where they seem set). I could see any number of positions being filled at #18 depending on who is there. I could see them trading down if they have any takers as #18 is where there often is movement and the Texans need players. (Get a good player, but the salaries aren't as high as in the top 10)

I could completely see the fans freaking out if such a trade down occurs if someone in a need position is there, it is the fan's fave, and we don't take that guy. (Though it wasn't a trade down situation, people freaked when the Texans took DeMeco Ryans at the beginning of the second instead of lineman).

The newspapers and fans are often CB, LT, RB, but depending on how the draft board goes, it could be any number of players.

By the way, out of the first round players, who are the guys that are physically the most gifted, academically and football smart, and are known as having very high character? (They are not afraid of small school guys or upside guys with good measurables). The Texans love these guys.

Once you start moving down off the top of the draft where player evaluation gets much more subjective from team to team, these are the factors that become very important to the Texans. Tell me who the reputed smart, good character guys are, the guys with the light shining behind their eyes, and those are the guys the Texans are sniffing out.

Just as a matter of odds, there are a bunch of good linemen and corners in this draft, so it may be where BPA meets need right away.

Specnatz
04-07-2008, 10:50 PM
Just as a matter of odds, there are a bunch of good linemen and corners in this draft, so it may be where BPA meets need right away.

This is the phrase I should repeat often, because I am not a BPA guy myself persay. Position has to play a role into it as well.

As always TC your spot on with great vision.

steelbtexan
04-07-2008, 10:50 PM
I would not mind trading down.

Hopefully someone wants Brohm & we can do the trade down thing.

I believe there is more value in 2nd rd. LT's (Nicks or Collins) than if we stay @ 18 & don't get extra picks.

Texans_Chick
04-07-2008, 11:02 PM
I would not mind trading down.

Hopefully someone wants Brohm & we can do the trade down thing.

I believe there is more value in 2nd rd. LT's (Nicks or Collins) than if we stay @ 18 & don't get extra picks.


You say this but what if your favo guy is at #18 and the team trades down and misses him. Will you freak?

I try to keep an open mind on draft day and work backwards. I have biases I am leaning towards, but I see the picks they chose and try to figure out why they might have chosen a particular guy instead of the Kiper/draft guy way of seeing things. I try not pretend to be expert because I know all I have done with most of the drafted players is read about them and not see them play, and that there is much misinformation out there. Then I watch em play.

People for years have had difficulties figuring out who Denver was going to draft on the offensive side of the ball, particularly with running backs. Especially on the offensive side of the ball, the Texans may make some headscratching picks that they feel fit what they are trying to do. (Owen Daniels?)

vtech9
04-07-2008, 11:30 PM
You say this but what if your favo guy is at #18 and the team trades down and misses him. Will you freak?

I try to keep an open mind on draft day and work backwards. I have biases I am leaning towards, but I see the picks they chose and try to figure out why they might have chosen a particular guy instead of the Kiper/draft guy way of seeing things. I try not pretend to be expert because I know all I have done with most of the drafted players is read about them and not see them play, and that there is much misinformation out there. Then I watch em play.

People for years have had difficulties figuring out who Denver was going to draft on the offensive side of the ball, particularly with running backs. Especially on the offensive side of the ball, the Texans may make some headscratching picks that they feel fit what they are trying to do. (Owen Daniels?)

Actually, I tend to agree with him. I wouldn't mind a trade down either. I think the quality of players is pretty close from the last half of the 1st round through the first half of the 2nd round. I just think that there are going to be several players of the same value there for us at 18 that we could afford to trade down and still come away with a player we targeted.

Texans_Chick
04-07-2008, 11:47 PM
Actually, I tend to agree with him. I wouldn't mind a trade down either. I think the quality of players is pretty close from the last half of the 1st round through the first half of the 2nd round. I just think that there are going to be several players of the same value there for us at 18 that we could afford to trade down and still come away with a player we targeted.

I would love a trade down. Everyone loves a trade down. Unless.....

Their favorite guy shows up available at #18. And you might miss him if you trade down.

I just think it is funny how fans get attached to certain players in the draft. And then in retrospect holler about the ones that weren't picked but ended up being good, (and don't say much about the ones who ended up being non-good).

I'm not arguing with anyone on this point, but just mentally preparing people for this as a possibility.

vtech9
04-08-2008, 12:05 AM
I would love a trade down. Everyone loves a trade down. Unless.....

Their favorite guy shows up available at #18. And you might miss him if you trade down.

I just think it is funny how fans get attached to certain players in the draft. And then in retrospect holler about the ones that weren't picked but ended up being good, (and don't say much about the ones who ended up being non-good).

I'm not arguing with anyone on this point, but just mentally preparing people for this as a possibility.

I understand what you are saying. Personally, I don't see anyone falling to us that I couldn't do without. I mean, sure there are guys that I would like for us to take, but there isn't any one guy that I am sold on over the rest. Right now, my top choice is Brandon Albert, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if he fell to us and we traded back for more picks. What it would mean to me is that we will get one more quality player that we wouldn't have otherwise been able to get. The draft is a crap shoot anyway. We don't know for sure if any one player is going to be a stud or a dud when he gets to the NFL. With a trade down, we increase our odds of finding that stud by being able to pick one more player.

That's just my POV, but I see what you are talking about. I keep seeing some people drool over OT Williams, but I'm really not that impressed with him. Some people want Mendenhall or Stewart, but I believe we can find a very good back in the 4th, or even later.

ccdude730
04-08-2008, 12:40 AM
i would not mind a trade down because im still waiting for a ball-hawk at FS. trade down several spots, pick up whatever smith can get us and draft phillips. i think im one of the only people on the boards wanting us to go that direction because alot of people are satisfied with demps.

i remember a few years back i really wanted the texans to trade up for sean taylor. that was a bad draft year for houston IMO. we got dunta, but the only other player still on the roster is earl. (that was the babin draft)

The Pencil Neck
04-08-2008, 12:54 AM
This is the same Mel Kiper that still thinks we made a mistake passing on Bush...

This is the same Mel Kiper that said that there was absolutely no way that David Carr OR Joey Harrington would be busts.

beerlover
04-08-2008, 01:36 AM
This is the same Mel Kiper that said that there was absolutely no way that David Carr OR Joey Harrington would be busts.

he is also still standing by his pick of Reggie Bush #1 overall :)

TK_Gamer
04-08-2008, 02:31 AM
The real problem with drafts, is BPA is often confused with most popular player available, and BEST is a relative term and subject to criticism. The hype machine tells us each year who the BEST is, but rarely do these guys get it right. I was one of the few people that thought Mario was the BPA, contrary to all the hype. The words "Freak, Phenom, etc usually don't describe the media's top picks. They do however describe a lot of the top players taken in the draft every year. People may not want to admit it, but genetics has a lot to do with athletes. The problem I have this year is I really don't see many of those types of players. That's why I think more picks is better this year, and we can find talent all the way down to round 6. The biggest weakness of our team in my opinion is not running, but stopping the run. I think to address that we need a space-eating DT and tackling machine at SSLB to compliment Ryans and Mario. I unfortunately also believe Kubiak and companies willingness to settle for mediocre safeties will always weaken or ability to stuff the run. I have no idea who we will draft. Like someone else mentioned, I tend to evaluate our effectiveness in the draft AFTER the draft, maybe even AFTER the season plays out.

Malloy
04-08-2008, 03:35 AM
I would love a trade down. Everyone loves a trade down. Unless.....

Their favorite guy shows up available at #18. And you might miss him if you trade down.



I have no college favorites, being somewhat pragmatic I never buy into the hype of an unproved player. Sometimes I'll buy into the anti-hype, but most often that is because I lothe absolute arguments such as 'Bush is the best player'.

Our Coach and GM can draft and sign whomever they want, I trust that they have a plan and are following it. Whether or not the plan will be a success in regards to the W/L column, I do not know, but having a plan and following it, being consistant, increases the odds of that success.

badboy
04-08-2008, 08:43 AM
For me the point with Kiper is not whether he is right or not but that both guys said the Texans have made progress. To hear anything positive was startling. To me this is the most interesting draft as I have a clearer sense of what Smith and Kubiak can do. Texans have done well recently with lower picks and I'll take a starter in 6th round every year. I don't care how it happened, the team got better.

I don't want a very good player even with a lower round pick attached, if I can get a franchise type player at #18. Williams at LT and Stewart at RB qualify. If I am staring at one of these guys, I don't go Vegas, close my eyes and throw the dice. You lock in a multi- year player at a need spot. I am of the opinion that we will get a 2 from Vikings for Sage. I've been wrong but it is an opinion like the others here. If it looks like Dunta is going to be back around mid-season and it has been said that Cason is the most ready to go CB and could start game one, why not go for him in second round? He is not a burner but speed is not the highest priority in our defense. I don't see him falling that low but some do. With a second round from Minnesota, I'd go Sam Baker LT who should be there and fits the ZBS. I like Godfrey or Chevis Jackson for CB in 3rd and one should be there.

It is the 4th, 5th and 7th rounds I am looking for the Smithiak to do the magic. Trade down or no, I expect to get starters in first and third rounds. When you are 8-8 and pick where we do, to come out of day two with three starters (Myers), that is a pretty good draft.

BigBull17
04-08-2008, 09:22 AM
This is the phrase I should repeat often, because I am not a BPA guy myself persay. Position has to play a role into it as well.

As always TC your spot on with great vision.

yeah, but we have so few positions that are set in stone, we need to BPA for a few posiion. Outside of WR and QB, we could use upgrades at most positions.

You say this but what if your favo guy is at #18 and the team trades down and misses him. Will you freak?

I try to keep an open mind on draft day and work backwards. I have biases I am leaning towards, but I see the picks they chose and try to figure out why they might have chosen a particular guy instead of the Kiper/draft guy way of seeing things. I try not pretend to be expert because I know all I have done with most of the drafted players is read about them and not see them play, and that there is much misinformation out there. Then I watch em play.

People for years have had difficulties figuring out who Denver was going to draft on the offensive side of the ball, particularly with running backs. Especially on the offensive side of the ball, the Texans may make some headscratching picks that they feel fit what they are trying to do. (Owen Daniels?)

You may hear some heartbreak if Mendenhall falls to us. No way he is the pick, and people will freak. People will trade up for him at that spot, and we will jump on it, IF he falls.

bigbrewster2000
04-08-2008, 09:40 AM
i would not mind a trade down because im still waiting for a ball-hawk at FS. trade down several spots, pick up whatever smith can get us and draft phillips. i think im one of the only people on the boards wanting us to go that direction because alot of people are satisfied with demps.
i remember a few years back i really wanted the texans to trade up for sean taylor. that was a bad draft year for houston IMO. we got dunta, but the only other player still on the roster is earl. (that was the babin draft)

The real problem with drafts, is BPA is often confused with most popular player available, and BEST is a relative term and subject to criticism. The hype machine tells us each year who the BEST is, but rarely do these guys get it right. I was one of the few people that thought Mario was the BPA, contrary to all the hype. The words "Freak, Phenom, etc usually don't describe the media's top picks. They do however describe a lot of the top players taken in the draft every year. People may not want to admit it, but genetics has a lot to do with athletes. The problem I have this year is I really don't see many of those types of players. That's why I think more picks is better this year, and we can find talent all the way down to round 6. The biggest weakness of our team in my opinion is not running, but stopping the run. I think to address that we need a space-eating DT and tackling machine at SSLB to compliment Ryans and Mario. I unfortunately also believe Kubiak and companies willingness to settle for mediocre safeties will always weaken or ability to stuff the run. I have no idea who we will draft. Like someone else mentioned, I tend to evaluate our effectiveness in the draft AFTER the draft, maybe even AFTER the season plays out.
I am really trying to figure out what the love affair is with Philips. He is not a ball hawking free safety. What he is is a very over rated player from a college program that in the past has had some great ball hawking FS. See Ed Reed, and the late Sean Taylor. Philips had one good season (not great) and last season he played bad. He also had sub par workouts. This guy is just not worth it at all. I will totally eat my crow if I am wrong but I dont think I am. Kenny Philips will absolutely BUST in the NFL. He will never live up to the hype. Unless he gets drafted in the 3rd round he will be over drafted.

Ok now to the space eater. I agree with you but the Texans dont. Jethro Franklin was on 1560 (you can listen to the pod cast) and said as much. He like Travis Johnson and what he brings to the team and the Texans feel that they already have the DT's in place on this team. They want guys that can move sideline to sideline and that are more athletic, not a big fat wall of a man. If they go DT in the draft it's gonna be a smaller DT meaning 300-315 in size not the 350 pound big boys.

HOU-TEX
04-08-2008, 09:52 AM
I'm going to go with the Cardinals. A little help on defense and they have a good chance of going to the playoffs given they're in a weak division. :shades:

BigBull17
04-08-2008, 10:08 AM
I'm going to go with the Cardinals. A little help on defense and they have a good chance of going to the playoffs given they're in a weak division. :shades:

Never heard such a statement before... Oh, wait, I hear that EVERY year. Im not buying it. Only reason theyt have any chance is because they are in the worst division in the NFL.

HOU-TEX
04-08-2008, 10:10 AM
Never heard such a statement before... Oh, wait, I hear that EVERY year. Im not buying it. Only reason theyt have any chance is because they are in the worst division in the NFL.

Which is what I stated, correct? :thinking:

BigBull17
04-08-2008, 10:16 AM
Which is what I stated, correct? :thinking:

Yeah, I was just repeating it. Despite the fact they had an awful year, I still think the Rams are better. They arent nearly as bad as their record showed. I have just been the guy bitten by calling them my sleeper pick, only to watch them win 4 games. Not falling for it again.

The Pencil Neck
04-08-2008, 10:29 AM
Yeah, I was just repeating it. Despite the fact they had an awful year, I still think the Rams are better. They arent nearly as bad as their record showed. I have just been the guy bitten by calling them my sleeper pick, only to watch them win 4 games. Not falling for it again.

I used to live in Phoenix back in the late 80's/early 90's. And I rooted for the Cards for a while and I was always hoping that they'd pull it together and do well. But like you said, every year they're the sleeper pick and every year they blow it (except for one bizarre year with Plummer when they reached the playoffs without having beaten a winning team all season and then beat the Cowgirls in the playoffs which was suweet.) So I agree with you. I will not pick the Cardinals to even have a winning record until they actually have one for a couple of years running.

Hervoyel
04-08-2008, 10:57 AM
It's true, we are one draft pick away from being considered a playoff contender. We finished .500 and in some divisions, in down years a .500 team can make the playoffs as a wild card. One and done isn't my idea of fun though so sure, there's still a lot of work to do before we are where we would all like to be year-in and year-out.

Say the Texans picked a RB and that guy blew up like Peterson did last year for the Vikings. We're looking at taking 10-11 games next year and we're a playoff team. Once we get there our defense will be exposed like Britney Spears getting out of a sports car but we'll be in the show.

Porky
04-08-2008, 11:27 AM
With the addtion of Chris Brown, I don't think a RB is in the cards in round 1, whether it's Stewart or the fumble prone Mendenhall. I'm really honing in on a LT, of which there are several I like that could be there. I could also see a CB, and if Keith Rivers falls, I could see that move too.

badboy
04-08-2008, 12:20 PM
With the addtion of Chris Brown, I don't think a RB is in the cards in round 1, whether it's Stewart or the fumble prone Mendenhall. I'm really honing in on a LT, of which there are several I like that could be there. I could also see a CB, and if Keith Rivers falls, I could see that move too.Williams is the only LT I've seen that might be there. Otah and Baker projected late first or early 2nd. You would not take a franchise type back in Stewart? We have little idea what we get with Brown and while I am glad he is on roster, he would go quickly to # 2 if we got Stewart. If WIlliams there,he has my first vote. Next is Stewart and Mike Jenkins third. I think all 3 will be gone and a trade may not be there as most teams have same chance to get a good player after 18 as we do.

TexanAddict
04-08-2008, 12:51 PM
By the way, out of the first round players, who are the guys that are physically the most gifted, academically and football smart, and are known as having very high character? (They are not afraid of small school guys or upside guys with good measurables). The Texans love these guys.

Once you start moving down off the top of the draft where player evaluation gets much more subjective from team to team, these are the factors that become very important to the Texans. Tell me who the reputed smart, good character guys are, the guys with the light shining behind their eyes, and those are the guys the Texans are sniffing out.

Taking this into consideration, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the Texans were perhaps thinking about Antoine Cason. The guy is reportedly high character, smart, and productive. A couple scouting reports:

Strengths:
Good athleticism...Decent size with long arms...Excellent instincts, anticipation and awareness...Playmaker with terrific hands and ball skills...Is quick and plays faster than he times...Very aggressive...Good technique and footwork...Does a solid job of supporting the run...A reliable tackler...Pretty tough...Smart, a hard worker and a leader...Very productive...Confident and has a short memory...Terrific bloodlines.

Weaknesses:
Does not have great timed speed and lacks a burst...Will have to get stronger...Is not overly physical...Struggles to recover when beat...Hips are not very fluid...Has trouble taking on / shedding blockers...Probably won't be an ideal fit for everyone.

Notes:
Father Wendell played at Oregon and for the Atlanta Falcons from 1984-1987, his brother Dione ran track at Washington St. and two of his cousins (Ken-yon Rambo and Avieon Cason) played in the NFL...Started the Cason Cares campaign to raise money for the American Cancer Society in honor of his late grandfather...Was also a member of the Wildcat track team...Prototypical zone corner...Also being looked at as a potential safety..Not quite the pro prospect that his college press clippings would lead you to believe...Very good player whose lack of top speed will hurt him on draft day...He's the type you hate to doubt due to those top-notch intangibles.
nfldraftcountdown.com (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/cb/antoinecason.html)

POSITIVES

Game tape, plain and simple. You can question his athleticism, if you'd like to. But if you watch the kid play, I'll wish you good luck in finding a better corner in the college ranks. Smooth, sound and instinctive, and just looks very natural playing football. A four-year starter at Arizona, Cason won the Thorpe Award as a senior, and was leaned on scheme-wise to do a lot in the Wildcats defense. Cason's also big and plays a physical brand ball, able to effectively jam receivers and also come up strong in run support. He plays the ball well while it's in the air, and displays exceptional route recognition. Very smart, great character, a leader and student of the game. Among the corners in this year's draft, there probably isn't a player who is more ready to step in right away than Cason. And he was an excellent return man as a collegian. Comes up big when you need him most, and finishes on the ball.

NEGATIVES

Most revolve around his speed. He can break on the ball, but could struggle downfield with receivers that can kick it into another gear well into their routes, and might have problems recovering from mistakes, even if neither of those things are really apparent on tape. Because of that, he's earned the moniker that corners that aren't track stars inherit - cover-2 corner. Also, he doesn't drop or flip his hips as well as Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie or Mike Jenkins, though he has been able to make up for it with technique and intelligence.
DallasMorningNews (http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/04/dallas-cowboys-nfl-draft-series-arizona.html)

Sounds to me like Demeco as a DB.

badboy
04-08-2008, 01:25 PM
Cason is ranked #24 of top 64 by NFL draft Scout behind CBs McKelvin, Mike Jenkins and DRC. He should be at 18 but may be avail if we got a trade down for even better value. I've read he is the most ready to start of CBs even if others have more upside. If Dunta will be back mid season or so, what better player to select unless, Smithiak feels comfortable with Reeves.

Second Honeymoon
04-08-2008, 02:28 PM
As much as the Texans would love to trade down its only going to happen if someone very coveted falls into their lap (Williams out of Vandy, Clady, Rivers, etc.) and then the Texans would have to consider drafting the player themselves.

Sage is our only real asset that could be moved for draft picks. we want a 2nd and there are no biters, so it looks like we are pretty much stuck at #18 barring someone falling on draft day in our laps.

I just think they should go the BPA route at #18 and hope one of our highest rated players falls in our lap. I would love to have Rivers playing alongside DeMeco for the next 8 years. I would also love to have a top OT prospect for Gibbs to groom. Those would be something we could hang our hat on for sure. I would lean towards defense but that is because I believe you build the defense first and let the offense do enough to win. It may not be the prettiest brand of football but it wins games and most importantly championships.

Second Honeymoon
04-08-2008, 02:33 PM
Cason is ranked #24 of top 64 by NFL draft Scout behind CBs McKelvin, Mike Jenkins and DRC. He should be at 18 but may be avail if we got a trade down for even better value. I've read he is the most ready to start of CBs even if others have more upside. If Dunta will be back mid season or so, what better player to select unless, Smithiak feels comfortable with Reeves.

They don't give the Thorpe trophy away. Cason can play but he has some fundamental flaws in his mechanics that could be exposed at the pro level and doesnt have the closing speed that scouts covet. That is why all the red flags.

I would have no problem with them taking Cason at #18. He would be nearly BPA with that pick and would address an area of critical need.

I would prefer defense but I feel the team is leaning towards LT because there are a few quality LT candidates that could fall in our lap when the smoke clears. It's pretty much up to Gibbs. He may defer and ask to draft another Guard prospect in the 3rd instead and let #18 go to defense. WHo knows?

AnthonyE
04-08-2008, 02:49 PM
Texans + Jonathan Stewart = :yes:

Agreed!

steelbtexan
04-08-2008, 03:03 PM
I would love a trade down. Everyone loves a trade down. Unless.....

Their favorite guy shows up available at #18. And you might miss him if you trade down.

I just think it is funny how fans get attached to certain players in the draft. And then in retrospect holler about the ones that weren't picked but ended up being good, (and don't say much about the ones who ended up being non-good).

I'm not arguing with anyone on this point, but just mentally preparing people for this as a possibility.

That's why you wait till #18 & if your guy has fallen to you (DRC, Williams, Clady) you take him.

If noone has fallen you listen to trade offers & if some team makes it worth your while you do the deal. Other wise you take BPA.

This is why I love the draft. All of the cat & mouse games.

I feel very comfortable with the draft being in Smithiak's hands, as opposed to what went on with the CC regime.

I can't wait till next years draft when Smithiak have their full compliment of draft choices.

barrett
04-08-2008, 03:07 PM
i am definitely in favor of the trade down for more picks philosophy. with rick smith, alex gibbs and gary kubiak running the draft i think anything to get more picks and more options increases our chances of success. i DON'T thing we're one pick away from success. i would agree that we are one good DRAFT away. and i think the more chances you give those three guys to hit oil, the more oil they hit.

especially in this supposedly talent rich draft that we have this year.

barrett
04-08-2008, 03:10 PM
p.s.

i think y'all should consider changing smithiak to SMIGGSIAK. you're nuts if you don't think alex gibbs is going to have a profound influence on their decisions.

all in favor?

badboy
04-08-2008, 03:25 PM
p.s.

i think y'all should consider changing smithiak to SMIGGSIAK. you're nuts if you don't think alex gibbs is going to have a profound influence on their decisions.

all in favor?Absolutely not. This is a Smith and Gary Kubiak team. Gibbs is a valued employee and contributor with good teaching skills. He will be listened to but Kubes and Smith make the decisions.

steelbtexan
04-08-2008, 03:34 PM
Absolutely not. This is a Smith and Gary Kubiak team. Gibbs is a valued employee and contributor with good teaching skills. He will be listened to but Kubes and Smith make the decisions.

agreed

Goldensilence
04-08-2008, 03:40 PM
when people say we need a rb i cant help but think they don't know much about the texans

My thought is the difference between we need a RB and we NEED a RB.

I think the Chris Brown signing pushed us back drafting RB til 3-4th. A guy like Allen Patrick, Dantrell Savage, or Tashard Choice would plug and play nicely.

In the past we might've been looking for that ball hawking FS but I don't think this staff places nearly a high importance on the rangey type. I'd expect we'd stick with Demps and either Earl or Brown as the starter at SS where the the later two belong. Very curious to see what a healthy Brandon Harrison brings to the table. I'd love to see us take a flyer in the 4th or 5th on Blake from TCU and have the possibility of getting a presence across from Mario regularly.

I'm expecting zone secondary this next year and hopefully Smith being more agressive earlier in the year in getting pressure one way or another with the front 7.

Texans_Chick
04-08-2008, 03:47 PM
My thought is the difference between we need a RB and we NEED a RB.

I think the Chris Brown signing pushed us back drafting RB til 3-4th. A guy like Allen Patrick, Dantrell Savage, or Tashard Choice would plug and play nicely.

In the past we might've been looking for that ball hawking FS but I don't think this staff places nearly a high importance on the rangey type. I'd expect we'd stick with Demps and either Earl or Brown as the starter at SS where the the later two belong. Very curious to see what a healthy Brandon Harrison brings to the table. I'd love to see us take a flyer in the 4th or 5th on Blake from TCU and have the possibility of getting a presence across from Mario regularly.

I'm expecting zone secondary this next year and hopefully Smith being more agressive earlier in the year in getting pressure one way or another with the front 7.


I think that the way that Smith/Kubiak handle the offseason is that they try to acquire certain offseason free agents such that they can take the best player available in the draft and do not have to reach for need.

So, Chris Brown doesn't preclude taking running back high if the best player available is located there. Just as Reeves doesn't preclude CB, etc.

If an unexpected guy is still available at #18, and the Texans value him high, they will want to take him no matter who they acquired in free agency.

Goldensilence
04-08-2008, 03:59 PM
I think that the way that Smith/Kubiak handle the offseason is that they try to acquire certain offseason free agents such that they can take the best player available in the draft and do not have to reach for need.

So, Chris Brown doesn't preclude taking running back high if the best player available is located there. Just as Reeves doesn't preclude CB, etc.

If an unexpected guy is still available at #18, and the Texans value him high, they will want to take him no matter who they acquired in free agency.

Agreed for the most part. I'm just equally saying I think Brown getting signed makes the decision easier far value goes IMO. If Mendenhall fell that'd be one thing but for me the shelf life of a RB isn't nearly as long as CB or T.

As usual there will be someone jumping into the top 15 unexpectedly that will cause somone to drop. The front office has done a great job of giving us draft flexibility.

steelbtexan
04-08-2008, 04:25 PM
IMO Thomas Brown would be agreat choice in the 5th rd. Vermiel really liked him @ the East West Shrine Game.

That's if they decide to go in that direction.

Personally I want to see them take BPA, but if all things are eaqual I would like to see them draft defense. Minus LT.

Drew_Smoke
04-08-2008, 04:36 PM
I feel very comfortable with the draft being in Smithiak's hands, as opposed to what went on with the CC regime.


I almost get the giggles when I hear "Draft Expert Charlie Casserly" on tv. Then you see the caption below "Texans GM 2000 - 2006" and you realize it wasn't a bad dream afterall.

Second Honeymoon
04-08-2008, 04:49 PM
I almost get the giggles when I hear "Draft Expert Charlie Casserly" on tv. Then you see the caption below "Texans GM 2000 - 2006" and you realize it wasn't a bad dream afterall.

yeah and now its being spun that he chose Mario over Bush. McNair and Kubiak chose Mario over Bush, not Casserley. In fact, after the draft Casserley said he had Bush as the #1 rated player on the board, after the fact. Now he wants to take credit for it now that it looks better. Screw Cass. The only reason he announced the pick was because McNair didn't want to fire him before his big NFL Executive position interview because McNair wanted a friend in the NFL hierarchy and wanted Casserley to save face so he could possibly get into the NY offices...of course, he was not chosen for the position and has been unemployed ever since. Real 'experts' don't stay unemployed long, in fact, they are normally picked up ijmmediately.

The only thing he was an expert at was giving away picks, making reaches on scrubs, and acting like he was smarter than 'joe fan'. Total prick and his interviews were normally about as abrasive as his cratered face.

steelbtexan
04-08-2008, 05:12 PM
I almost get the giggles when I hear "Draft Expert Charlie Casserly" on tv. Then you see the caption below "Texans GM 2000 - 2006" and you realize it wasn't a bad dream afterall.

So true

How he still has a job talking about football is beyond me.

People on this board have a higher football I.Q. than CC.

The fact that he was always kissing up to the league office & didn't get the job with them humors me.

Rex King
04-08-2008, 05:37 PM
As much as the Texans would love to trade down its only going to happen if someone very coveted falls into their lap (Williams out of Vandy, Clady, Rivers, etc.) and then the Texans would have to consider drafting the player themselves.

There's also the reality of having few realistic trading partners, and they would have to covet said player. Different teams will assign players different values, and thus this is not entirely accurate, but if we're following the draft value chart,
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/features/valuechart.html
if we want to stay in the 1st round and get a 2nd rounder, we're looking at late picks in both rounds (Cowboys, Packers, Giants, discounting Indy and Jax), making it less likely the Texans could get someone they grade as a 1st rounder at a position of need; i.e., they likely miss out on the CBs and LTs and end up "reaching."

For a 1st and a 3rd only Washington, Pittsburgh, and Seattle yield near equal value. Barring a rare three-team trade, the only possibility for two 2nd rounders is with Atlanta. For an early 2nd and early 3rd we'd be giving up more and those teams - Miami, KC, St. Louis - would probably want more picks rather than fewer. The other possibilities, including some combination of 08 and 09 picks, would be unlikely to yield more players who could help the team this year.

Maddict5
04-09-2008, 05:42 AM
yeah and now its being spun that he chose Mario over Bush. McNair and Kubiak chose Mario over Bush, not Casserley. In fact, after the draft Casserley said he had Bush as the #1 rated player on the board, after the fact. Now he wants to take credit for it now that it looks better. Screw Cass.

im not a casserly fan (who is) but thats BS... i think most reasonable fans agree that casserly was consistently high on mario and made a strong case to mcnair and kubiak to take him which they also saw and agreed with


anything else you want to pull out of your ass?

Texans_Chick
04-09-2008, 08:35 AM
im not a casserly fan (who is) but thats BS... i think most reasonable fans agree that casserly was consistently high on mario and made a strong case to mcnair and kubiak to take him which they also saw and agreed with


anything else you want to pull out of your ass?

Let's play fair and be kind. :cool:


The history of Casserly and the 2006 draft has been muddled. I think the best information that is out there is that Casserly wanted to sign and announce Bush very early in the process, but that he was overruled by those who wanted to explore all options including trading the pick. This is why there were rumors early on saying that Bush was definitely the guy because CC was leaking it (and wanted it to be official).

In retrospect, I wish Casserly had made a stronger case to the media and public about Williams. They surprised folks with the pick, and then really never made a case about why they picked him other than his combine measureables and that he played DE. It would have still been a huge storm in Houston, but at least there would have been some basic information about him.

Drew_Smoke
04-09-2008, 08:38 AM
That is true...it seemed the public conception was that the Texans took Mario because he agreed to terms.

Porky
04-09-2008, 11:54 AM
Williams is the only LT I've seen that might be there. Otah and Baker projected late first or early 2nd. You would not take a franchise type back in Stewart? We have little idea what we get with Brown and while I am glad he is on roster, he would go quickly to # 2 if we got Stewart. If WIlliams there,he has my first vote. Next is Stewart and Mike Jenkins third. I think all 3 will be gone and a trade may not be there as most teams have same chance to get a good player after 18 as we do.

Sorry, but I don't think all that much of Stewart as a franchise back. I see him as a second rd back at best. I could be wrong, but in the times I have seen him he just didn't seem that elusive and he doesn't seem to run real aggresive. Granted he is so big he will break tackles, but to me he looks like he should run like Jamaal Lewis, but instead runs more like Jerry Lewis. He was also injury prone his first two years. So, he had one breakout year. I don't feel he will be a bust, but I don't see "franchise" back in him either. Not at all. JMO.

badboy
04-09-2008, 12:50 PM
Sorry, but I don't think all that much of Stewart as a franchise back. I see him as a second rd back at best. I could be wrong, but in the times I have seen him he just didn't seem that elusive and he doesn't seem to run real aggresive. Granted he is so big he will break tackles, but to me he looks like he should run like Jamaal Lewis, but instead runs more like Jerry Lewis. He was also injury prone his first two years. So, he had one breakout year. I don't feel he will be a bust, but I don't see "franchise" back in him either. Not at all. JMO.In response,
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=173412
STate record RB;
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=173412
"Consider this (2007) season another growth spurt in which Stewart no longer tries to run over people or go the distance every play and thereby risking injury as in his first two years." In other words, he is maturing into a better back. The article goes on to say "He ranks 7th in nation with 130.4 yards per game BUT #1 among top 25 RBs in yards per carry @ 6.69."

In High School after 4 years he had 7,755 yds and 95 TDS. AT combine 235 lbs he ran 4.48. His "break out year" was as a junior and he rushed for almost 1,000 as a sophomore. His cathcing ability is another positive.

Opinions are just that and you have yours and mine is "franchise type" back.

Dread-Head
04-09-2008, 01:10 PM
It HURTS me to say this, but the Cowgirls. If they had a really quick free-saftey they would be in the superbowl next year. Hopefully the Late Wade Phillips (cause he's dead to me now) doesn't realize that.

Fox
04-09-2008, 05:45 PM
Let's play fair and be kind. :cool:


The history of Casserly and the 2006 draft has been muddled. I think the best information that is out there is that Casserly wanted to sign and announce Bush very early in the process, but that he was overruled by those who wanted to explore all options including trading the pick. This is why there were rumors early on saying that Bush was definitely the guy because CC was leaking it (and wanted it to be official).

In retrospect, I wish Casserly had made a stronger case to the media and public about Williams. They surprised folks with the pick, and then really never made a case about why they picked him other than his combine measureables and that he played DE. It would have still been a huge storm in Houston, but at least there would have been some basic information about him.

I thought they said more about their decision than that he was a DE and what his measurables were. Didn't Richard Smith speak at a press conference introducing Williams extolling the virtues of building a defense, and how defenses win championships? Kubiak said he was a game changing pass rusher and someone who would cause opposing offenses problems. Smith said he had no flaws in his personal life or football abilities. I'm just curious, would you have recommended that they put a letter in the paper to the fans, more info on the web site, a TV spot, or just say more about him at his press conference? Or was it just that those words weren't coming from Casserly?

Texans_Chick
04-09-2008, 07:46 PM
I thought they said more about their decision than that he was a DE and what his measurables were. Didn't Richard Smith speak at a press conference introducing Williams extolling the virtues of building a defense, and how defenses win championships? Kubiak said he was a game changing pass rusher and someone who would cause opposing offenses problems. Smith said he had no flaws in his personal life or football abilities. I'm just curious, would you have recommended that they put a letter in the paper to the fans, more info on the web site, a TV spot, or just say more about him at his press conference? Or was it just that those words weren't coming from Casserly?

That's all right brain talking. Blah blah blah. The press conferences were all fluff. Basically, they told you that Mario Williams graded out higher than Julius Peppers, but they didn't show you why, either through playing statistics, combine numbers, video etc. They gave out stats, but they didn't give out basis of comparison. Most fans don't know what those numbers mean without context of comparing them to players that they do know about. They had no quotes from his coaches or his teammates.

And given that most stories in the Chronicle have some amount of regurgitation from the press releases, they could have given that information to the Chronicle and we could have read the regurgitation.

These are the stories that they had at the time on the HT.com website.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=2456

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=2455

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=2465

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=2457

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=2448

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=2447

If you are making a pick that you know you will get killed about, you need to sell it better than they did. Not over sell it, but make rational left brain reasons why Mario was worth a #1 pick. The way they announced this pick to the world, as a last minute idea with little selling in the context of the VY/Bush thing, left Mario in the lurch.

Bygones.

feebleminded
04-09-2008, 09:11 PM
If you are making a pick that you know you will get killed about, you need to sell it better than they did. Not over sell it, but make rational left brain reasons why Mario was worth a #1 pick. The way they announced this pick to the world, as a last minute idea with little selling in the context of the VY/Bush thing, left Mario in the lurch.

Bygones.

291

Umm yeah, I don't know if they got the memo about the TPS reports, but I understand that Matt Schaub is a hell of a leader.

Goldensilence
04-09-2008, 09:30 PM
I thought they said more about their decision than that he was a DE and what his measurables were. Didn't Richard Smith speak at a press conference introducing Williams extolling the virtues of building a defense, and how defenses win championships? Kubiak said he was a game changing pass rusher and someone who would cause opposing offenses problems. Smith said he had no flaws in his personal life or football abilities. I'm just curious, would you have recommended that they put a letter in the paper to the fans, more info on the web site, a TV spot, or just say more about him at his press conference? Or was it just that those words weren't coming from Casserly?

The thought that flashed through my mind was Cam Cameron defending Ted Ginn Jr. at the #9 pick.

"Boooo BOOOOOO Booooo!"
"crowd grumbles"
"we really believe Ted brings a lot to the offense and hey...he can return punts!"
"mock cheers with fans realizing they were in store for a long year"

Garbo
04-09-2008, 09:38 PM
I'm just worried bout us becoming like Arizona where we start becoming the team that gets a lot of preseason hype, then flame out.

Runner
04-09-2008, 09:47 PM
Didn't Richard Smith speak at a press conference introducing Williams extolling the virtues of building a defense, and how defenses win championships?

A defensive coordinator extolling the virtues of defense? I'm speechless.

Fox
04-09-2008, 10:12 PM
A defensive coordinator extolling the virtues of defense? I'm speechless.

And you'd be more verbose if it came from Sherman? Defensive coordinators aren't the only ones to blame for making "Defenses win championships" cliche. Point is they defended the pick, whether it was well received or not.

Texans_Chick
04-09-2008, 11:42 PM
And you'd be more verbose if it came from Sherman? Defensive coordinators aren't the only ones to blame for making "Defenses win championships" cliche. Point is they defended the pick, whether it was well received or not.

The way they prepared the fans for the pick and the way they promoted the pick was very poor. A very right brained discussion, when the discussions of the draft have become increasingly left brained.

They had the first freaking pick. They knew who they were going to choose. They had plenty of time to put together something more substantive than hey we need a pass rush, defense wins championships, lookie he is a big dude who can play multiple positions.

I was proud that Mario Williams put my old blog post providing basic research and information about him on his website until I realized that the reason his people did it was because the mainstream media didn't write anything that was particularly fair about his background.

Why? Because the Texans didn't spoonfeed them the information.

I had to research Mario myself because the local newspaper put nothing of substance in it. Most of the information I could find about him was BEFORE the draft, before the hype machine said he was Sam Bowie. The Chronicle writers said the pick sucked, then some went on vacation, and then weeks later John Lopez wrote an article about Mario's sister (a similar article was written by USA Today the day after the draft).


/sorry about this getting off topic, but I truly believe that CC and the Texans did a misservice to fans and to Williams with the way that the 2006 draft was handled.

ChampionTexan
04-10-2008, 12:24 AM
I was proud that Mario Williams put my old blog post providing basic research and information about him on his website until I realized that the reason his people did it was because the mainstream media didn't write anything that was particularly fair about his background.

Why? Because the Texans didn't spoonfeed them the information.

I had to research Mario myself because the local newspaper put nothing of substance in it. Most of the information I could find about him was BEFORE the draft, before the hype machine said he was Sam Bowie. The Chronicle writers said the pick sucked, then some went on vacation, and then weeks later John Lopez wrote an article about Mario's sister (a similar article was written by USA Today the day after the draft).


TC -

Everything you said is dead-on, but at the time, you had a GM with one foot out the door, a head coach who'd never participated in a draft above the level of Offensive Coordinator, and an owner who probably should have known better than to trust these guys to handle the PR side of things, but he obviously didn't.

That's not a knock on Kube's, but it's definitely a knock on CC. In the time between the end of the last season and now, I've seen it reported that the reason CC was fired was because he was responsible for the Mario pick (Which is laughable except for the fact that there are apparently people who believe it), and you've said he wanted Bush, and was overruled.

Can it possibly be a coincidence that two years later, there is still confusion and uncertainty on a national basis, and basically, CC can get away with spinning it any way he wants. Yes, he could have done a better job selling it to the media and making them understand it, but because he didn't - he was free to say later that his actions were a result of not being in favor of the pick. As it is, since MW's looking like a pretty good selection right now, we have lemmings who either don't care about accuracy or are to lazy to verify things, and end up writing about Mario's 14 sack season being "Vindication" for Casserly.

I've heard numerous times that the reason the Redskins took Shuler in '94 was because Norv Turner wanted him. I have no idea if that's accurate, but I know it's what CC wants the world to believe. I just get the feeling that he intentionally set this up to be able to deny any role if the pick bombed, and claim all the credit if it turned out to be good. The spoon-feeding you correctly claim they didn't do wouldn't have served that purpose.

Runner
04-10-2008, 05:21 AM
And you'd be more verbose if it came from Sherman?

Nope. Then I wouldn't have commented since it would had more significance (to me anyway) in making the point.

aj.
04-10-2008, 06:36 AM
If the definition of contention is playoffs (which I think is what they meant), there are probably a lot of teams that are one draft pick (and a healthy season) away from contention. I'd start by naming all the 7, 8, and 9 win teams coming back relatively intact that didn't make the playoffs last year as possibilities.

I think Kubiak/Smith would say the Texans are still a couple drafts away from where they need to be - and I think he would be right in saying that. But there's probably not too many coaches that wouldn't say that.

The Texans got a lot of 'contender' hype coming off that 7-9 in '04.

It's all noise/filler to me...

Bring on the draft so we have something real to chew on.

Thorn
04-10-2008, 06:40 AM
Bring on the draft so we have something real to chew on.


Preach it brother!

Fox
04-10-2008, 08:41 AM
The way they prepared the fans for the pick and the way they promoted the pick was very poor. A very right brained discussion, when the discussions of the draft have become increasingly left brained.

They had the first freaking pick. They knew who they were going to choose. They had plenty of time to put together something more substantive than hey we need a pass rush, defense wins championships, lookie he is a big dude who can play multiple positions.

I was proud that Mario Williams put my old blog post providing basic research and information about him on his website until I realized that the reason his people did it was because the mainstream media didn't write anything that was particularly fair about his background.

Why? Because the Texans didn't spoonfeed them the information.

I had to research Mario myself because the local newspaper put nothing of substance in it. Most of the information I could find about him was BEFORE the draft, before the hype machine said he was Sam Bowie. The Chronicle writers said the pick sucked, then some went on vacation, and then weeks later John Lopez wrote an article about Mario's sister (a similar article was written by USA Today the day after the draft).


/sorry about this getting off topic, but I truly believe that CC and the Texans did a misservice to fans and to Williams with the way that the 2006 draft was handled.

How long before the draft day did they know for sure who they were going to take? I thought it wasn't before shortly before draft day that they made their final decision and signed Mario to a contract. I think Kubiak, McNair, Casserly, and an assortment of other people defended this pick in the paper, on their web site, in a televised press conference, and in televised interviews with reasonable arguments for selecting him. Did they give a statistical analysis of the significance of his measurables and college production relative to DE's of the past? No. Did they specifically, by name, compare him to Vince Young and Reggie Bush, and say why he was better for us than them? No. But I don't think that was necessary, nor do I recall any team going out of their way to do something similar within the first week of drafting a player. I respect your opinion, I just disagree. I thought all of the media and fan hype put them in a bad spot, and considering the circumstances as a fan I felt well informed as to why they made their decision.

steelbtexan
04-10-2008, 10:16 AM
Spot on TC

Why should the Texans have to spoon feed the media anything. Isn't it their job to hunt down stories & do their own reasearch?

CC always plays both sides of the fence. Why should it be a suprise to anybody that he would play both sides of the fence in this instance.

He has made a career out of playing both sides of the fence.

Texans_Chick
04-10-2008, 11:32 AM
How long before the draft day did they know for sure who they were going to take? I thought it wasn't before shortly before draft day that they made their final decision and signed Mario to a contract. I think Kubiak, McNair, Casserly, and an assortment of other people defended this pick in the paper, on their web site, in a televised press conference, and in televised interviews with reasonable arguments for selecting him. Did they give a statistical analysis of the significance of his measurables and college production relative to DE's of the past? No. Did they specifically, by name, compare him to Vince Young and Reggie Bush, and say why he was better for us than them? No. But I don't think that was necessary, nor do I recall any team going out of their way to do something similar within the first week of drafting a player. I respect your opinion, I just disagree. I thought all of the media and fan hype put them in a bad spot, and considering the circumstances as a fan I felt well informed as to why they made their decision.

It took me, an individual person, a couple of hours to research and write what I wrote about Mario Williams with no access to agents, coaches, family, teammates, game film, draft analysis etc. Which is more information than the Texans sent out or what was in the paper.

I am guessing a corporation with the resources that the Texans have could have put together some informational stuff together that is a little better than defense wins championships, lookee at how big and strong this guy is.

Yes, there are people who would have been bitter no matter what you said about Mario. But the Texans really didn't do a good job of introducing this pick to the world at all.

CC said at the time, to boo him instead of Mario. They knew how much everyone was going to despise the pick, and despise Mario for being the face of that pick. They needed to redouble their efforts to demonstrate why he was the right pick for their team.

I believe that 2006 draft is a case study of how NOT to handle draft PR and was a disservice to the fanbase and to Mario Williams. (though getting the money stung him less).

Texans_Chick
04-10-2008, 11:35 AM
Spot on TC

Why should the Texans have to spoon feed the media anything. Isn't it their job to hunt down stories & do their own reasearch?

CC always plays both sides of the fence. Why should it be a suprise to anybody that he would play both sides of the fence in this instance.

He has made a career out of playing both sides of the fence.

His entire career was built on blame and blather.

I was talking to an out of town reporter about CC, and he said that CC was now teaching a class on how to succeed in sports adminstration.

And I asked him whether his advice was all, "find other people to blame."

He laughed and mentioned that in his last conversation with CC, he blamed other people for various things.

Fox
04-10-2008, 11:37 AM
It took me, an individual person, a couple of hours to research and write what I wrote about Mario Williams with no access to agents, coaches, family, teammates, game film, draft analysis etc. Which is more information than the Texans sent out or what was in the paper.

I am guessing a corporation with the resources that the Texans have could have put together some informational stuff together that is a little better than defense wins championships, lookee at how big and strong this guy is.

Yes, there are people who would have been bitter no matter what you said about Mario. But the Texans really didn't do a good job of introducing this pick to the world at all.

CC said at the time, to boo him instead of Mario. They knew how much everyone was going to despise the pick, and despise Mario for being the face of that pick. They needed to redouble their efforts to demonstrate why he was the right pick for their team.

I believe that 2006 draft is a case study of how NOT to handle draft PR and was a disservice to the fanbase and to Mario Williams. (though getting the money stung him less).

I respect the work you put in to further introduce Mario to fans. I think we're viewing this situation from two different perspectives and are going to have a difficult time agreeing on it's portrayal. Either way, it's water under the bridge, I'd like to leave it at that and allow the thread to get back on topic. Maybe another time.

edo783
04-10-2008, 02:42 PM
Bring on the draft so we have something real to chew on.


Preach it brother!


Can I get an AMEN to that! Or if you are feeling moved in a mighty way by the spirit of the draft, just sing out with a hearty HALLELUJAH.

vtech9
04-12-2008, 06:34 PM
you know, I keep seeing people say that OT Williams is a franchise LT, but I just don't see it. He may be serviceable, but I just don't see him as a franchise LT. IMHO, Brandon Albert is the safer pick. He has quick feet and long arms, and I think he would be the better LT in our system. If he's not able to play LT, he could be our upgrade over Pitts. I know alot of people are going to be upset with this, but I think Pitts is our weak link right now because he is slow footed. Fire away.

edo783
04-12-2008, 08:43 PM
you know, I keep seeing people say that OT Williams is a franchise LT, but I just don't see it. He may be serviceable, but I just don't see him as a franchise LT. IMHO, Brandon Albert is the safer pick. He has quick feet and long arms, and I think he would be the better LT in our system. If he's not able to play LT, he could be our upgrade over Pitts. I know alot of people are going to be upset with this, but I think Pitts is our weak link right now because he is slow footed. Fire away.

While I generaly agree that Albert may actually be a safer pick than Williams because if he strikes out at LT he is likely a pro bowl level guard, but williams is concidered the protypical WCO LT and therfore the better pick as a LT. Not sure how you arrived at that Pitts is slow footed. He has always been one of the more agile lineman and recognized as such.

ObsiWan
04-13-2008, 11:19 AM
Wow.

Mel Kiper?

We're doomed.

This means we fall apart this year.

I'm sorry. When I read your post it lost it.
Now that's comedy.
:spit:

Trail.Blazr
04-14-2008, 04:30 PM
Cleveland Browns. Arguably the best team out there not to make the post season last year.

Unfortunately for Browns fans, they won't get that One Draft pick until the 4th.

Goldensilence
04-14-2008, 05:12 PM
you know, I keep seeing people say that OT Williams is a franchise LT, but I just don't see it. He may be serviceable, but I just don't see him as a franchise LT. IMHO, Brandon Albert is the safer pick. He has quick feet and long arms, and I think he would be the better LT in our system. If he's not able to play LT, he could be our upgrade over Pitts. I know alot of people are going to be upset with this, but I think Pitts is our weak link right now because he is slow footed. Fire away.

The world Franchise is often overused in relation to projecting guys to pro careers. Williams has good measureables and is one of the more smarter guys in the draft according the wonderlic test for what that is worth. Is he one of the mythical "franchise" type players? I don't know. I know it's hard to project any player to really do that. What I do think is he has the measureables to solve, short and long term, our LT problem.

I've said before I think its a stronger possibility then some people are saying Williams will fall to us at 18. Fits a glaring need and BPA. If he doesn't make it I would hope the staff strongly considers Albert. If he doesn't make it at LT worst(and i use this loosely) we get a guy that has pro bowl potential at guard. I'm not sure about Pitts but with McKinney gone and Weary not looking like he'll be healthy or resigned by the time TC rolls around we might not be fully set at RG. Perhaps Kubiak thinks Brisiel is the guy. I am not so sure.