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badboy
04-03-2008, 03:03 PM
The MB is slowing down & I want your thoughts. It appears a good chance exists that the hot players will be gone by 18. Williams & Stewart may be there but could be gone as will Harvey and most CBs. If no trades are offered do we reach for a guy that may be avail in 2nd? Like Sam Baker, Cason, Forte or Collins? Or if we have to go at 18 and the guys we have all discussed repeatedly are gone, do we look at Charles? Normally not one I'd take at # 18 but should be perfect Rb for ZBS especially if Brown is what we think he is.

As it is for now we have no 2nd. Remember, no one will trade and there are CBs and LTs and RBs that may be avail in 3rd, 4th and 5th.

1. Charles RB that should mesh well with Brown and even Green.
3. Tony Hills or Duane Brown either could be solid LT for years but may not be available at our selection.
4. Moulden or Tyvon Branch CB may not start immediately but soon. Solid pick

I look at top 25 on NFL Draft Big Board and try to re-assure myself we will get a need based player at #18. Someone sooth my jitters as I'm beginning to lose sleep.

Polo
04-03-2008, 03:19 PM
It's kinda surreal seeing people talk about Tony...

bah007
04-03-2008, 03:25 PM
It's kinda surreal seeing people talk about Tony...

Did you play with him?

Ole Miss Texan
04-03-2008, 03:25 PM
So if the consensus top players (Chris Long, Vernon Gholston, Glenn Dorsey, Sedrick Ellis, Darren McFadden and Jake Long: 6 players) are gone;
the next few best players (Rashard Mendenhall, Ryan Clady, Chris Williams, Branden Albert: 4 players),
the top Corners, depending on preferences (Leodis McKelvin, Mike Jenkins, Dominic Rodgers-Cromartie: 3 players)
some more top players, (Jonathan Stewart, Keith Rivers, Derrick Harvey, and I'd have to assume Matt Ryan gets picked somewhere before us with some teams NEEDing QB: 4 players) that's a total of 17 players and as I see probably worst case scenario for us.

I think we'd be forced to look at BPA which would probably be a WR- I think we're looking good at WR but they may look at a top guy- just sayin'

I don't see a pass rushing DE (maybe Calais Campbell?), or stud OLB, or any stud LT or OL (Otah just may not fit our team but he's available or replace him and Matt Ryan since we won't pick Ryan). No stud RB.

I really like Antoine Cason would like that pick with these guys off the board, look at Reggie Smith or Brandon Flowers..Aqib Talib? Kenny Phillips? RB-wise: Felix Jones, Jamaal Charles, Matt Forte, Ray Rice, Chris Johnson... i couldn't bring myself to select ANY of these RB's at #18.

Out of this 'worst case scenario': I'd focus on Calais Campbell-DE, Antoine Cason-CB, Kenny Phillips-our FS, Reggie Smith-CB/FS or Brandon Flowers-CB, or Aqib Talib-CB and if the Smith/Kubiak really don't like these guys we may actually look for a "playmaker" (gulp-D.Jackson) or a WR like Kelly, Thomas, Sweed??

I like Kevin Smith as a RB in the 3rd that we have a shot at as Rice/Forte/Charles will not fall that far. Duane Browns stock seems to be going up so I could see him being gone before our pick in the 3rd-otherwise solid pick up.

bah007
04-03-2008, 03:26 PM
Charles is a reach at #18.

I really like him, but I wouldn't be too happy if we grabbed him there. There are better players at need positions on the board.

Polo
04-03-2008, 03:26 PM
Did you play with him?

With and against.

Against him in middle school, with him in high school. I'm happy for him.

The Pencil Neck
04-03-2008, 03:29 PM
At 18, no matter what happens, we're going to get a good player that we can use.

bah007
04-03-2008, 03:29 PM
With and against.

Against him in middle school, with him in high school. I'm happy for him.

Yea he seems like a good kid.

I'm always happy to see another local kid succeed.

badboy
04-03-2008, 03:45 PM
So if the consensus top players (Chris Long, Vernon Gholston, Glenn Dorsey, Sedrick Ellis, Darren McFadden and Jake Long: 6 players) are gone;
the next few best players (Rashard Mendenhall, Ryan Clady, Chris Williams, Branden Albert: 4 players),
the top Corners, depending on preferences (Leodis McKelvin, Mike Jenkins, Dominic Rodgers-Cromartie: 3 players)
some more top players, (Jonathan Stewart, Keith Rivers, Derrick Harvey, and I'd have to assume Matt Ryan gets picked somewhere before us with some teams NEEDing QB: 4 players) that's a total of 17 players and as I see probably worst case scenario for us.

I think we'd be forced to look at BPA which would probably be a WR- I think we're looking good at WR but they may look at a top guy- just sayin'

I don't see a pass rushing DE (maybe Calais Campbell?), or stud OLB, or any stud LT or OL (Otah just may not fit our team but he's available or replace him and Matt Ryan since we won't pick Ryan). No stud RB.

I really like Antoine Cason would like that pick with these guys off the board, look at Reggie Smith or Brandon Flowers..Aqib Talib? Kenny Phillips? RB-wise: Felix Jones, Jamaal Charles, Matt Forte, Ray Rice, Chris Johnson... i couldn't bring myself to select ANY of these RB's at #18.

Out of this 'worst case scenario': I'd focus on Calais Campbell-DE, Antoine Cason-CB, Kenny Phillips-our FS, Reggie Smith-CB/FS or Brandon Flowers-CB, or Aqib Talib-CB and if the Smith/Kubiak really don't like these guys we may actually look for a "playmaker" (gulp-D.Jackson) or a WR like Kelly, Thomas, Sweed??

I like Kevin Smith as a RB in the 3rd that we have a shot at as Rice/Forte/Charles will not fall that far. Duane Browns stock seems to be going up so I could see him being gone before our pick in the 3rd-otherwise solid pick up.OMT you nailed exactly what my thoughts were! I see Cason and Talib as probable starters eventually and maybe not a huge reach as someone else posted on another thread "If you need a guy that is BPA go for it". Forte for example is really impressing and we could use him but at 18?

badboy
04-03-2008, 03:46 PM
Charles is a reach at #18.

I really like him, but I wouldn't be too happy if we grabbed him there. There are better players at need positions on the board.Ok but who are those better player you would reach down for if not Charles?

badboy
04-03-2008, 03:47 PM
At 18, no matter what happens, we're going to get a good player that we can use.Give me 2-3 players so I can calm my nerves. I mean it's not a panic attack just slow creeping dread I can't shake loose from. Guess I could read a Stephen King novel to shed the creepy feeling?

badboy
04-03-2008, 03:55 PM
So if the consensus top players (Chris Long, Vernon Gholston, Glenn Dorsey, Sedrick Ellis, Darren McFadden and Jake Long: 6 players) are gone;
the next few best players (Rashard Mendenhall, Ryan Clady, Chris Williams, Branden Albert: 4 players),
the top Corners, depending on preferences (Leodis McKelvin, Mike Jenkins, Dominic Rodgers-Cromartie: 3 players)
some more top players, (Jonathan Stewart, Keith Rivers, Derrick Harvey, and I'd have to assume Matt Ryan gets picked somewhere before us with some teams NEEDing QB: 4 players) that's a total of 17 players and as I see probably worst case scenario for us.

I think we'd be forced to look at BPA which would probably be a WR- I think we're looking good at WR but they may look at a top guy- just sayin'

I don't see a pass rushing DE (maybe Calais Campbell?), or stud OLB, or any stud LT or OL (Otah just may not fit our team but he's available or replace him and Matt Ryan since we won't pick Ryan). No stud RB.

I really like Antoine Cason would like that pick with these guys off the board, look at Reggie Smith or Brandon Flowers..Aqib Talib? Kenny Phillips? RB-wise: Felix Jones, Jamaal Charles, Matt Forte, Ray Rice, Chris Johnson... i couldn't bring myself to select ANY of these RB's at #18.

Out of this 'worst case scenario': I'd focus on Calais Campbell-DE, Antoine Cason-CB, Kenny Phillips-our FS, Reggie Smith-CB/FS or Brandon Flowers-CB, or Aqib Talib-CB and if the Smith/Kubiak really don't like these guys we may actually look for a "playmaker" (gulp-D.Jackson) or a WR like Kelly, Thomas, Sweed??

I like Kevin Smith as a RB in the 3rd that we have a shot at as Rice/Forte/Charles will not fall that far. Duane Browns stock seems to be going up so I could see him being gone before our pick in the 3rd-otherwise solid pick up.Another thought, say it breaks down as you have identified. Dallas knows we want an RB and might select Felix Jones which some mocks have Dallas picking, would Dallas feel need to trade up? Not getting McFadden or Jones would it bother Arkansas alumni JJ? If they traded above us for Jones that could force one of the top 17 down to us. Or would Dallas still go WR and then get a 2nd tiered back? I think I saw a mock recently with Dallas taking Charles with second pick first round.

Second Honeymoon
04-03-2008, 04:12 PM
With and against.

Against him in middle school, with him in high school. I'm happy for him.

Mack Brown really liked the kid and took good care of him at UT during some really tough injuries. I give MB a lot of credit for the class he shows his recruits even when things dont pan out.

The Pencil Neck
04-03-2008, 05:35 PM
Give me 2-3 players so I can calm my nerves. I mean it's not a panic attack just slow creeping dread I can't shake loose from. Guess I could read a Stephen King novel to shed the creepy feeling?

Keith Rivers may fall to us. A good CB like Jenkins, Cason, or Talib will be there. Quinton Groves, Merling, or Calais Campbell would be good DE's who are probably going to be there. Branden Albert will probably be there and might be someone we can groom for that LT spot.

The bottom line is I trust Smithiak to find good players that are going to help the team regardless of the round.

Kaiser Toro
04-03-2008, 05:46 PM
I like Jamaal, but just do not see value for the Texans in drafting him until the fourth. I still would be surprised to see him drafted in first or second.

beerlover
04-03-2008, 06:11 PM
I like Jamaal, but just do not see value for the Texans in drafting him until the fourth. I still would be surprised to see him drafted in first or second.

there are some real interesting gamebreakers in this draft & Jamaal is one of them. to me he looks like a natural slot receiver. he is a great fit for the Texans zbs. I like Chris Johnson too in similar role. both are going somewhere in the 2nd. doubtfull to the 3rd. no way 4th.

BSofA04
04-03-2008, 06:46 PM
Jamaal Charles and 1st Round don't go together. Unless you want the Ted Ginn Jr. reaction by the fans.

Polo
04-03-2008, 08:22 PM
both are going somewhere in the 2nd. doubtfull to the 3rd. no way 4th.

With all the RB's coming out I'd say it's very possible one, if not both,will fall to the third...

badboy
04-04-2008, 09:39 AM
Jamaal Charles and 1st Round don't go together. Unless you want the Ted Ginn Jr. reaction by the fans.If Brown is what he is supposed to be, I could see Charles getting 70 -75 yds rushing avg/game + 400-500 yds for the season in receptions in the new ZBS. That is definitely first round material. Other backs might do it later in draft but no guarantee we can get one.

The1ApplePie
04-04-2008, 09:49 AM
I see Felix Jones as a far better prospect, though Charles in the 2nd would be nice.

I would take Slaton in the 4th in a heartbeat. Great ZBS back, with tons of value.

If we can get Hillis, Hester or Schmitt at FB in the 5th, and Charles or Slaton earlier, I could like our running game

Polo
04-04-2008, 09:54 AM
I would take Slaton in the 4th in a heartbeat. Great ZBS back, with tons of value.

I really don't like Slatons game..

He has some nice speed, and can catch, but I don't like how he runs...

beerlover
04-04-2008, 10:00 AM
If Brown is what he is supposed to be, I could see Charles getting 70 -75 yds rushing avg/game + 400-500 yds for the season in receptions in the new ZBS. That is definitely first round material. Other backs might do it later in draft but no guarantee we can get one.

I'm not going as far to give him a 1st rd. grade but he would be very productive in this scheme, so it really wouldnt even matter. Jamaal offers speed out of the backfield, something still lacking, excellent pair of hands receiving, use in 4 WR sets, create mis-matches against LB's & Safetys with strength to overpower DB's & come down in bounds with rule changes. Would give Kubiak a weapon to limit AJ double teams, Jacoby breathing space to enhance his playmaking ability & complements the power running game between & outside the tackles in cut-back lanes.

badboy
04-04-2008, 12:10 PM
Andre Johnson and JJ on left Charles and A. Davis on right with Brown in back field. All you need is a quick release by Schaub. Like the Run & Shoot, he could just air it out to a spot and let the WR antelope under it. Even a sucker play to allow the blitz and a dump to Brown could be immeasurable.

beerlover
04-04-2008, 12:58 PM
got this off Hoth-Boys link via Dallas Morning News - Rick Gosselin

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/03/dallas-cowboys-nfl-draft-series-texas-ru.html

Polo
04-04-2008, 01:05 PM
got this off Hoth-Boys link via Dallas Morning News - Rick Gosselin

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/03/dallas-cowboys-nfl-draft-series-texas-ru.html

JC would look so good in a Texans Uni...

One thing I do notice about Charles that he needs to work on in the NFL is that he doesn't use his free arm to break tackles...I saw plenty of times he could have gotten extra yardage if he just sticks a hand in a defenders frontal...

But the boy definitely has skills...

Hookem Horns
04-04-2008, 01:14 PM
If he is there for Bud I am sure he will take him. It's part of his whole plan to have a Nashville, Texas and an Austin, Tennessee.

bah007
04-04-2008, 01:27 PM
JC would look so good in a Texans Uni...

One thing I do notice about Charles that he needs to work on in the NFL is that he doesn't use his free arm to break tackles...I saw plenty of times he could have gotten extra yardage if he just sticks a hand in a defenders frontal...

But the boy definitely has skills...

I think it may have had something to do with his fumbling problem.

Upon contact, sometimes he would instinctively throw his other arm over to help cover the ball.

I think his problems can definitely be fixed by an NFL RB coach.

badboy
04-04-2008, 01:37 PM
got this off Hoth-Boys link via Dallas Morning News - Rick Gosselin

http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/03/dallas-cowboys-nfl-draft-series-texas-ru.htmlExcellent article. All should read O.C.'s comment about running between tackles and fumbling. I'm telling ya this guy has ZBS RB written all over him. If we got Williams in first and Charles in 2d (Sage) I'd be very pleased.

badboy
04-04-2008, 01:39 PM
If he is there for Bud I am sure he will take him. It's part of his whole plan to have a Nashville, Texas and an Austin, Tennessee.Think Vince would like to have Charles to hand off and throw to? 4.38 whooeee! QB option with J.C. leading?

b0ng
04-04-2008, 01:54 PM
Think Vince would like to have Charles to hand off and throw to? 4.38 whooeee! QB option with J.C. leading?

He'd probably rather have Sweed catching his horrificly thrown passes.

bah007
04-04-2008, 02:18 PM
He'd probably rather have Sweed catching his horrificly thrown passes.

VY throws great passes.....they just dont always land in the right spot.

b0ng
04-04-2008, 02:37 PM
VY throws great passes.....they just dont always land in the right spot.

You can also apply the word "horrific" to his mechanics too :)

Doesn't matter though, Crumpler is a decent receiving option and I'm sure the Titans will draft soem sort of WR help (Like the did last year). Pretty much this year will be make or break for Vince and I think people will not give him credit for his defense playing outstanding football and winning games outright.

But really this is about Jamaal Charles, and I think that worst comes to worst theres no way the Texans draft Charles @ 18. I mean, they COULD do that, but that really be surprising to a lot of people. Especially with how well we've drafted in previous years.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind having Kenny Phillips if he fell to #18. I also think that Antoine Cason is a decent option at CB at 18 although many would think of it as a huge reach. I feel that there are about 20 - 25 players or so I wouldn't mind the Texans picking with their first rounder, so I'm guessing that there will be somebody with qualities the Texans FO looks for in a 1st round pick.

badboy
04-04-2008, 02:45 PM
He'd probably rather have Sweed catching his horrificly thrown passes.Nah, Charles would be closer to Young and he might be able to hit him.

badboy
04-04-2008, 02:49 PM
You can also apply the word "horrific" to his mechanics too :)

Doesn't matter though, Crumpler is a decent receiving option and I'm sure the Titans will draft soem sort of WR help (Like the did last year). Pretty much this year will be make or break for Vince and I think people will not give him credit for his defense playing outstanding football and winning games outright.

But really this is about Jamaal Charles, and I think that worst comes to worst theres no way the Texans draft Charles @ 18. I mean, they COULD do that, but that really be surprising to a lot of people. Especially with how well we've drafted in previous years.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind having Kenny Phillips if he fell to #18. I also think that Antoine Cason is a decent option at CB at 18 although many would think of it as a huge reach. I feel that there are about 20 - 25 players or so I wouldn't mind the Texans picking with their first rounder, so I'm guessing that there will be somebody with qualities the Texans FO looks for in a 1st round pick.
Cason would be ok with me at 18 because I've read he is most ready to start Cb.

Philips? I think we will be ok with pro bowl alternate Demps for 16 games as starter. Theoretically, Phillips should be the back-up at FS and no way I want my #18 as a back up. Understand your position though.

infantrycak
04-04-2008, 02:51 PM
Philips? I think we will be ok with pro bowl alternate Demps for 16 games as starter. Theoretically, Phillips should be the back-up at FS and no way I want my #18 as a back up. Understand your position though.

If they were to draft Phillips (and this certainly isn't a prediction they will) they would move Demps to SS and get both of them on the field.

b0ng
04-04-2008, 08:25 PM
If they were to draft Phillips (and this certainly isn't a prediction they will) they would move Demps to SS and get both of them on the field.

This is my thinking as well because Demps doesn't seem like the best "cover" guy out there. He plays like he wants to take somebody's head off, and I think he could move over.

Bubbajwp
04-04-2008, 08:59 PM
If they were to draft Phillips (and this certainly isn't a prediction they will) they would move Demps to SS and get both of them on the field.

I think he might be our best option if it goes down like the worst case scenario thread.

infantrycak
04-04-2008, 09:41 PM
I think he might be our best option if it goes down like the worst case scenario thread.

While I am not advocating him, I can kind of see the Texans valuing him highly if reports on their theories of safety are true--playing left right safeties that are kind of tweeners. Phillips is doubted by some as a true FS. Hmmm. Sounds like someone approaching tweener safety from the other end of the spectrum from the SS guys we have.

threetoedpete
04-05-2008, 10:51 AM
. It appears a good chance exists that the hot players will be gone by 18. Williams & Stewart may be there but could be gone as will Harvey and most CBs. Or if we have to go at 18 and the guys we have all discussed repeatedly are gone, do we look at Charles? Normally not one I'd take at # 18 but should be perfect Rb for ZBS especially if Brown is what we think he is.

As it is for now we have no 2nd. Remember, no one will trade and there are CBs and LTs and RBs that may be avail in 3rd, 4th and 5th.

1. Charles RB that should mesh well with Brown and even Green.
.



http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/879121,CST-SPT-bear05.article

Spencer met with Tulane running back Matt Forte on Thursday in New Orleans, a day after putting Texas' Jamaal Charles through a private workout in Austin. Could the Bears be looking at Charles, who succeeded Benson with the Longhorns, to do the same in Chicago?......


Both Charles, who ran a 4.38-second 40-yard dash at the combine, and Forte are projected to be second-round draft picks. The Bears also have shown interest in Arkansas' Felix Jones as they investigate backs who might be available after they address another need -- perhaps offensive tackle -- with the 14th pick in the first round.

Texaninlild
04-05-2008, 11:45 AM
The MB is slowing down & I want your thoughts. It appears a good chance exists that the hot players will be gone by 18. Williams & Stewart may be there but could be gone as will Harvey and most CBs. If no trades are offered do we reach for a guy that may be avail in 2nd? Like Sam Baker, Cason, Forte or Collins? Or if we have to go at 18 and the guys we have all discussed repeatedly are gone, do we look at Charles? Normally not one I'd take at # 18 but should be perfect Rb for ZBS especially if Brown is what we think he is.

As it is for now we have no 2nd. Remember, no one will trade and there are CBs and LTs and RBs that may be avail in 3rd, 4th and 5th.

1. Charles RB that should mesh well with Brown and even Green.
3. Tony Hills or Duane Brown either could be solid LT for years but may not be available at our selection.
4. Moulden or Tyvon Branch CB may not start immediately but soon. Solid pick

I look at top 25 on NFL Draft Big Board and try to re-assure myself we will get a need based player at #18. Someone sooth my jitters as I'm beginning to lose sleep.

Charles in the first...uhh no for any team. Charles has an uphill climb with Cedric 'the bust' Benson riding his back in the draft. Sorry Horn..Charles to the second or third round. If Charles is there in the third..maybe.

threetoedpete
04-05-2008, 11:58 AM
I wouldn't mind him as a value pick in the forth. Trouble is he isn't going to make it there. "explosive" and "playmaker" fits.... we just don't have the ammo to go a'wandering this year. They have the task at banging four holes ( Cb, RB, DE, OLT, and some would argue FS/OLB) with two decent picks. We'll be very lucky to hit two of those.

steelbtexan
04-05-2008, 12:18 PM
I wouldn't mind him as a value pick in the forth. Trouble is he isn't going to make it there. "explosive" and "playmaker" fits.... we just don't have the ammo to go a'wandering this year. They have the task at banging four holes ( Cb, RB, DE, OLT, and some would argue FS/OLB) with two decent picks. We'll be very lucky to hit two of those.

RS & KUBES draft history says that they will hit on 3 of those 4 holes.

I hope they hit on in order LT, DE, DB