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View Full Version : This is why I love Kubiak and Smith


DocBar
04-02-2008, 01:50 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5667114.html
After all the "What is Sage Worth" and all, the Texans front office answered us unambiguously. If it doesn't make us a better team, we aren't doing it. Kubes and Smith aren't about making deals for the sake of making deals and headlines. They are about making the Texans a better team. A lot of us got soured by the former regime's propensity for signing a second tier player for firt tier)or above) money because of a "name", then playing the guy regardless of production. "Smithiak" has shown every indication of being abobe that and targeting specific needs within the budget restraints and signing the best player within those restraints. I have loved our offseason to date. We've made good signings that will help the team without putting us un salary cap hell. We haven't made any huge splashes, but we've been solid. If we have a solid draft along the lines of our past two drafts, we should be in position to compete for a wild card slot in '08. IMHO. McNair struck oil AND gold with Kubiak and Smith.

ccdude730
04-02-2008, 04:01 AM
i love that you have a GM and head coach working so well together to benefit this team, but i really wanted another pick on the first day! :wild:


also, did you catch this in the other article?

General manager Rick Smith and coach Gary Kubiak expect to get a starter with their first-round pick — 17th overall.
Kubiak weighs needs ahead of NFL draft (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5666927.html)

:gun: lets see how long the chron keeps this up

RipTraxx
04-02-2008, 06:05 AM
i love that you have a GM and head coach working so well together to benefit this team, but i really wanted another pick on the first day! :wild:


also, did you catch this in the other article?


Kubiak weighs needs ahead of NFL draft (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5666927.html)

:gun: lets see how long the chron keeps this up

1st rd Pass rusher? Really?

The two that will be left are merling and harvey. Like em both. Merlings a little bigger so he might hold up against the run better.

Both should be a available plus or minus 2 picks.

Any Takers?

Thorn
04-02-2008, 08:40 AM
After reading the Chronicle article this morning, I certainly feel a lot better from Kubiac's comments. I'm waiting for their second draft together, but so far I'm a firm believer that Kubiac and Smith will take us to the promised land.

Plus, being the Sage supporter that I am, that article obviously makes me feel good. LOL

Kaiser Toro
04-02-2008, 08:45 AM
John McClain written article and no quotes from Rick Smith.

ArlingtonTexan
04-02-2008, 08:57 AM
John McClain written article and no quotes from Rick Smith.

Seriously, the only difference between this an all of the other pre-draft articles is that a pass rusher was included in the mix.

nunusguy
04-02-2008, 09:28 AM
""We have (three) right-handed quarterbacks (Matt Schaub, Sage Rosenfels and Quinn Gray). Look who we play in our division — Dwight Freeney (Colts) and Kyle Vanden Bosch (Titans) twice a year. You better be good at protecting the quarterback."
********************************
That's a pretty dang explicit expression of Kubiaks concern about getting somebody who can address their need at this position over the long-term.
For the first time I think I'm of the opinion that if they are really high on a particular LT and think they have to move up to get him or he'll be gone at #18, they might make a real effort to do a deal.

Specnatz
04-02-2008, 10:43 AM
i love that you have a GM and head coach working so well together to benefit this team, but i really wanted another pick on the first day! :wild:


also, did you catch this in the other article?


Kubiak weighs needs ahead of NFL draft (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5666927.html)

:gun: lets see how long the chron keeps this up

It has been fixed.

badboy
04-02-2008, 10:59 AM
Kubes mentioned CB, RB and LT as well as DE. Nothing new on first three and we at least know those three will be addressed unless a DE is there unexpectedly. We just don't know what round the CB,RB and LT will be selected in. A 2 would be nice on draft day.

hadaad
04-02-2008, 11:09 AM
I won't believe anything that comes out of any NFL Player/Coach/GM/Owner until after the draft.

And then only half.

I don't currently know which half.

El Tejano
04-02-2008, 11:51 AM
You want to win, you gotta control the LOS. You addressed it on the defensive side, now's time to address it on the offensive side.

Texan in Japan
04-02-2008, 12:38 PM
""We have (three) right-handed quarterbacks (Matt Schaub, Sage Rosenfels and Quinn Gray). Look who we play in our division — Dwight Freeney (Colts) and Kyle Vanden Bosch (Titans) twice a year. You better be good at protecting the quarterback."
********************************
That's a pretty dang explicit expression of Kubiaks concern about getting somebody who can address their need at this position over the long-term.
For the first time I think I'm of the opinion that if they are really high on a particular LT and think they have to move up to get him or he'll be gone at #18, they might make a real effort to do a deal.

I'm not following your line of reasoning on moving up, can you elaborate? There are about 4-5 OTs that could go in the 1st round. If are RT is the prototype, then looking at someone w/ his skills/demeanor and LT body should lead us to players we may be targeting.

Guys like Long, Clady and Williams probably go before our pick. So maybe we're looking hard at Otah, Baker, Cherilus, etc. Baker seems a lot like Eric Winston and Otah seems to have some Spencer in him. I'd really like to address LT this year, so I hope we get the guy we want,

Lucky
04-02-2008, 12:58 PM
For the first time I think I'm of the opinion that if they are really high on a particular LT and think they have to move up to get him or he'll be gone at #18, they might make a real effort to do a deal.
With what? The Texans only have 5 picks in the draft (tied for fewest). With the Rosenfels deal extinguished, they don't have the ammo to move up if they wanted.

Goldensilence
04-02-2008, 01:01 PM
I think there would've been a nice oppurtunity with the third we could've garnered for Sage.

I do think McNair is a bit off to say Schaub and Sage 1 and 1A. It'd be different if we have a situation like Cleveland where both QBs are young with still lots of upside in Anderson and Quinn. We have one starter and one capable backup. I'm okay to leave it at that.

threetoedpete
04-02-2008, 01:10 PM
You want to win, you gotta control the LOS. You addressed it on the defensive side, now's time to address it on the offensive side.

We may get lucky this draft. We will never be in a poition to take one in the top half of the first round of a draft.

The spotless guy is always going to be just out of reach. Whomever they take...past the first three rounds... will have some warts on him. Doesn't mean it can't work. If all three top propects for his system, Williams , Claddy and now I believe alberts.... are off the board @ 18, it makes sense to bang the CB hole. If Gibbs can find someone he can work with in the second day, fine. Just really bothers me to spend this much capitol on QBs and not do your best as a franchise to protect them. I posted last year this is the draft the second round picks we gave for MS would come back to hunt the franchise... I can think of nothing worse than to watch four or five o-lineman go off the board while the Texans are left one more draft wiffing...tring to plug the Bosselli black hole. It's come to point it isn't just bad luck...it's lack of will.

nunusguy
04-02-2008, 01:34 PM
I'm not following your line of reasoning on moving up, can you elaborate? There are about 4-5 OTs that could go in the 1st round. If are RT is the prototype, then looking at someone w/ his skills/demeanor and LT body should lead us to players we may be targeting.

Guys like Long, Clady and Williams probably go before our pick. So maybe we're looking hard at Otah, Baker, Cherilus, etc. Baker seems a lot like Eric Winston and Otah seems to have some Spencer in him. I'd really like to address LT this year, so I hope we get the guy we want,
The Texans have their own internal rankings of players like any team right ?
Of all the O tackles out there, hypothetical speaking of course, lets say that Chris Williams is their highrest rated LT and they even have him rated #4overall on the Board. And as Kubiak admits in this article, LT is one of their biggest needs, both short-term and more importantly over the long-term.
OK, here's the scenario: they are sitting there at #18 and the team with the
15th pick is about ready to select and to the Texans surprise Williams is still on the Board and they also know both teams picking between them & 15 want Williams real bad. If they can move up to 15 by throwing in their third-rounder even though that would leave them with only a 4th, 5th , & 7th rounder, should they make that move ? I would in a heart-beat.

threetoedpete
04-02-2008, 02:02 PM
I'm not following your line of reasoning on moving up, can you elaborate? There are about 4-5 OTs that could go in the 1st round. If are RT is the prototype, then looking at someone w/ his skills/demeanor and LT body should lead us to players we may be targeting.

Guys like Long, Clady and Williams probably go before our pick. So maybe we're looking hard at Otah, Baker, Cherilus, etc. Baker seems a lot like Eric Winston and Otah seems to have some Spencer in him. I'd really like to address LT this year, so I hope we get the guy we want,

I'm pretty much with vinny on ohat. Except for the fact that McNeil, who I conider simular to Ohtah, turned out to be prety fair OT. The ony way they'd Baker or Cherlilus is with move down, far from a sure thing. Hello King Dunlap -tony Hills. What's that guy from Toledoe's name ?



"We're not interested in getting rid of Sage," McNair said. "Somebody would have to value him much more highly than we do, and so far, it hasn't happened."

Which means if Minnie would of thrown in the other three...sage would be the strater for them by the forth game.

dalemurphy
04-02-2008, 02:44 PM
The Texans have their own internal rankings of players like any team right ?
Of all the O tackles out there, hypothetical speaking of course, lets say that Chris Williams is their highrest rated LT and they even have him rated #4overall on the Board. And as Kubiak admits in this article, LT is one of their biggest needs, both short-term and more importantly over the long-term.
OK, here's the scenario: they are sitting there at #18 and the team with the
15th pick is about ready to select and to the Texans surprise Williams is still on the Board and they also know both teams picking between them & 15 want Williams real bad. If they can move up to 15 by throwing in their third-rounder even though that would leave them with only a 4th, 5th , & 7th rounder, should they make that move ? I would in a heart-beat.



More likely would be trading something from next year's draft- like a 2 in order to move up 3 or 4 spots. With the needs of the team and the depth of this draft, I seriously doubt they get rid of their 3 middle round picks, regardless of the situation.

Texan in Japan
04-02-2008, 02:46 PM
The Texans have their own internal rankings of players like any team right ?
Of all the O tackles out there, hypothetical speaking of course, lets say that Chris Williams is their highrest rated LT and they even have him rated #4overall on the Board. And as Kubiak admits in this article, LT is one of their biggest needs, both short-term and more importantly over the long-term.
OK, here's the scenario: they are sitting there at #18 and the team with the
15th pick is about ready to select and to the Texans surprise Williams is still on the Board and they also know both teams picking between them & 15 want Williams real bad. If they can move up to 15 by throwing in their third-rounder even though that would leave them with only a 4th, 5th , & 7th rounder, should they make that move ? I would in a heart-beat.

Ok, got it. I really doubt we'll give up our 3rd and if any of the pre-draft mocks are close we'd need to get up before DEN and CAR for Williams...our third probably won't do it.

nunusguy
04-02-2008, 03:03 PM
More likely would be trading something from next year's draft- like a 2 in order to move up 3 or 4 spots. With the needs of the team and the depth of this draft, I seriously doubt they get rid of their 3 middle round picks, regardless of the situation.
The scenario I've suggested certainly isn't the most likely. We're just talking here, killing time during the offseason.

TK_Gamer
04-02-2008, 03:59 PM
I dont think clady is a zbs prospect, I think williams is the only match and Otah is a stretch not worth trading up at all. a 2nd next year or a 3rd and a 5th might do it, but who knows.

dalemurphy
04-02-2008, 04:17 PM
The scenario I've suggested certainly isn't the most likely. We're just talking here, killing time during the offseason.

Yeah, I'm not really disagreeing with you. I see the real possibility of going to get a guy this year. We don't have infinit needs this year. We have 4. So, while I think that may happen, I'm just saying we won't use this year's resources to do it for a couple reasons. We only have 5 picks in a very good draft class. And, three of our greatest areas of needs (OT, RB, CB), are very well represented in this year's draft.

badboy
04-02-2008, 04:27 PM
The Texans have their own internal rankings of players like any team right ?
Of all the O tackles out there, hypothetical speaking of course, lets say that Chris Williams is their highrest rated LT and they even have him rated #4overall on the Board. And as Kubiak admits in this article, LT is one of their biggest needs, both short-term and more importantly over the long-term.
OK, here's the scenario: they are sitting there at #18 and the team with the
15th pick is about ready to select and to the Texans surprise Williams is still on the Board and they also know both teams picking between them & 15 want Williams real bad. If they can move up to 15 by throwing in their third-rounder even though that would leave them with only a 4th, 5th , & 7th rounder, should they make that move ? I would in a heart-beat.I do not want to trade up in that scenario. THere are too many opportunities to get a solid LT below 18. A trade down to Dallas for example and pick up anything and still select a LT that could start this year would be better imo and then use your 3rd for Rb or CB or that infamous DE that can rush the QB. Two starters for one and you have extra draft pick from trade down for Smith to do his magic with.

Texans_Chick
04-02-2008, 08:53 PM
"We're not interested in getting rid of Sage," McNair said. "Somebody would have to value him much more highly than we do, and so far, it hasn't happened."

Which means if Minnie would of thrown in the other three...sage would be the strater for them by the forth game.

Kubiak/Smith aren't going to be the ones dishing to the media on who is interested in Sage. The original Sage trade rumors came from places other than the Texans.

There are enough teams in the league with sucky backups (or starters for that matter) where it wouldn't surprise me at all if something got done before the draft. Recovering Schaub shoulder and all.

Basically, McNair in so many words is saying let's make a deal, but that deal needs to be good.

maddogmrb
04-02-2008, 10:16 PM
The Texans have their own internal rankings of players like any team right ?
Of all the O tackles out there, hypothetical speaking of course, lets say that Chris Williams is their highrest rated LT and they even have him rated #4overall on the Board. And as Kubiak admits in this article, LT is one of their biggest needs, both short-term and more importantly over the long-term.
OK, here's the scenario: they are sitting there at #18 and the team with the
15th pick is about ready to select and to the Texans surprise Williams is still on the Board and they also know both teams picking between them & 15 want Williams real bad. If they can move up to 15 by throwing in their third-rounder even though that would leave them with only a 4th, 5th , & 7th rounder, should they make that move ? I would in a heart-beat.

I agree, we've got to address the LT position in a big way. Like another poster said, most games are won in the trenches.:texflag:

edo783
04-02-2008, 10:47 PM
tring to plug the Bosselli black hole. it's lack of will.

Some how, that just sounds wrong.

mussop
04-03-2008, 04:50 AM
I agree, we've got to address the LT position in a big way. Like another poster said, most games are won in the trenches.:texflag:






It will be interesting if we are faced with a choice of a top DE like Harvey and a top OT like Williams both available. Do you pass up DE for an OT even though the talent level at our next pick is clearly talent dominated by OT? In fact after the second round DE is going to be weak and not likely to have any impact IMO. On the other hand OT looks to be still plentiful in the 3rd.

I disagree with those who say the D Line is good enough like it no longer needs any attention. Besides Mario we have what? A young player with allot of unfilled potential so far in Okoye. We have no idea if he is going to live up to his potntial. Hope so! An inconsistent TJ who is IMO underrated a little by most here. A player that is a role player and one year from retiring in Kalu. Weaver who is not the answer and who’s time is most likely limited until his contract is no longer a financial problem to terminate. Maddox who is just a warm body and no one else worth listing at all.

The Dline needs more talent and more depth especially at DE. Smithiak has already proven they can find OT's in the 3rd that can contribute.

A top DE in the 1st with the pick of a OT that should be available in the 3rd would be a stronger combination than say, one of the top OL in the 1st and one of the DE's projected to go in the 3rd. There is more than one side to a LOS. Don’t be surprised if a top notch DE is our pick if that situation occurs.

nunusguy
04-03-2008, 08:15 AM
I agree, we've got to address the LT position in a big way. Like another poster said, most games are won in the trenches.:texflag:
After QB, is there any single position on this team or any NFL team more important than OLT ? And how long have we been trying to acquire a LT for the long-term ? The answers to those 2 questions is no and 6 years, respectively.
A Chris Williams or another LT in this Draft who Smith, Kubiak, & Co. feel could be our long-term solution at that position is absolutely worth our 1st and 3rd rounders IMO.

badboy
04-03-2008, 02:34 PM
After QB, is there any single position on this team or any NFL team more important than OLT ? And how long have we been trying to acquire a LT for the long-term ? The answers to those 2 questions is no and 6 years, respectively.
A Chris Williams or another LT in this Draft who Smith, Kubiak, & Co. feel could be our long-term solution at that position is absolutely worth our 1st and 3rd rounders IMO.I agree that LT that can lock position for years is important but would not pay the 1st & 3rd as I fully believe a quality LT will be therre in 3rd. Of course I believe we will get a 2 for Sage also. If Williams is there at #18 ok he's ours. My worry is all top LTs Rbs & Cbs are gone at 18 and no one will trade up to get us out of 18.

I do not think Harvey will be at 18, but if he is I think Smith may select him. I disagree as I do not see DE as higher priority than LT CB & RB. I am hopeful the entire Dline is improved this year as well as Mr. Weaver. I would not draft DE period.

threetoedpete
04-03-2008, 05:40 PM
I dont think clady is a zbs prospect, I think williams is the only match and Otah is a stretch not worth trading up at all. a 2nd next year or a 3rd and a 5th might do it, but who knows.

Well I wtached him for five games...he's a dead on mtach from what I understand about it. Long arms, Quick feet....wanna bang his run blocking that's one thing. no one is going to speed rush the guy on the left edge. no one.

ObsiWan
04-03-2008, 06:37 PM
It will be interesting if we are faced with a choice of a top DE like Harvey and a top OT like Williams both available. Do you pass up DE for an OT even though the talent level at our next pick is clearly talent dominated by OT? In fact after the second round DE is going to be weak and not likely to have any impact IMO. On the other hand OT looks to be still plentiful in the 3rd.

I disagree with those who say the D Line is good enough like it no longer needs any attention. Besides Mario we have what? A young player with allot of unfilled potential so far in Okoye. We have no idea if he is going to live up to his potntial. Hope so! An inconsistent TJ who is IMO underrated a little by most here. A player that is a role player and one year from retiring in Kalu. Weaver who is not the answer and who’s time is most likely limited until his contract is no longer a financial problem to terminate. Maddox who is just a warm body and no one else worth listing at all.

The Dline needs more talent and more depth especially at DE. Smithiak has already proven they can find OT's in the 3rd that can contribute.

A top DE in the 1st with the pick of a OT that should be available in the 3rd would be a stronger combination than say, one of the top OL in the 1st and one of the DE's projected to go in the 3rd. There is more than one side to a LOS. Don’t be surprised if a top notch DE is our pick if that situation occurs.

I know this is just for gabbing purposes, but I'd rather stick with the plan. Get us an OT or CB/FS in round one & three because that's were the draft gems match our biggest needs. In subsequent rounds take the best player available at RB, OLB, and DE - no particular order meant to be implied.

Round one is where you find your starters - out of our seven total first-rounders we have five still starting for us. So I don't want to burn our #1 pick for a situational pass rusher (see Jason Babin) and ignore the spots where we need the most help.

DocBar
04-03-2008, 09:30 PM
I'm pretty OK with just sitting back and letting the offers, if there are any, come to us. If the interest in Sage is high enough, we can set the price ( within reason) and let the other guys sweat it out and make a choice.
#18 isn't a horrible spot to be picking at. Smith and Kubiak have stated that they will take BPA. They won't reach for an OLT, DE or CB at that spot if they don't have the players left at that spot rated there. I would LOVE to get an OLT in this draft. It's deep enough at that position that we could end up having one of the top 3 fall to us. I could see us trading back to mid 20's for a 4th if there's a player that another team just has to have. That would be OK, too. I don't see us trading down at all. We're hurting too bad for draft picks as it is.

vtech9
04-03-2008, 10:00 PM
I actually think the Texans would take Virginia OG Albert before they would take OT Williams. After watching video of Albert, I think he would make a better OT in our system than Williams. But, that is just my opinion.

Goldensilence
04-04-2008, 01:05 AM
I know this is just for gabbing purposes, but I'd rather stick with the plan. Get us an OT or CB/FS in round one & three because that's were the draft gems match our biggest needs. In subsequent rounds take the best player available at RB, OLB, and DE - no particular order meant to be implied.

Round one is where you find your starters - out of our seven total first-rounders we have five still starting for us. So I don't want to burn our #1 pick for a situational pass rusher (see Jason Babin) and ignore the spots where we need the most help.

I think you can mark off FS now. I just don't think Kubiak and Smith are interested in a ball hawking FS. I think we've done a good job of putting together a quiet but good offseason so we can look at BPA at one of three spots in the first.

As thing stand right now I think we're looking at LT if Williams drops or CB in the first. If Harvey drops to us I think we might comtemplate him or offers. What could make things interesting is there's a few teams behind that are probably going to look to add a WR. Someone might be willing to jump ahead of the others to get their guy.

ccdude730
04-04-2008, 03:41 AM
I think you can mark off FS now. I just don't think Kubiak and Smith are interested in a ball hawking FS. I think we've done a good job of putting together a quiet but good offseason so we can look at BPA at one of three spots in the first.

lets not go around crapping on fan's hearts. i want a ball-hawking FS

infantrycak
04-04-2008, 09:30 AM
I think you can mark off FS now. I just don't think Kubiak and Smith are interested in a ball hawking FS. I think we've done a good job of putting together a quiet but good offseason so we can look at BPA at one of three spots in the first.

I don't think two off-seasons are enough to make generalizations about what the team might like ideally. The last two years they have been two high in the draft to take a FS and get value. This year, although lower, there is some thought once again the top FS might not be a good value.

mussop
04-04-2008, 10:34 AM
So I don't want to burn our #1 pick for a situational pass rusher (see Jason Babin) and ignore the spots where we need the most help.

Any DE that falls to us in the first wouldnt be a "situational pass rusher ". Take a look at the production from the DE spot opposite of Mario and tell me that isnt a spot where we need help. In fact I would rate DE, OT and CB as need # 1, 1a & 1b.

It is well known that Smithiack tend/prefer to go after OL in the later rounds and have already been sucesfull doing just that in their short time here. It is also well known that they like or prefer to go with D in the early rounds. If by some miricle Harvey should fall to #18 I couldnt imagine anyone being rated higher on ou board.

TK_Gamer
04-04-2008, 01:30 PM
I think you can mark off FS now. I just don't think Kubiak and Smith are interested in a ball hawking FS. I think we've done a good job of putting together a quiet but good offseason so we can look at BPA at one of three spots in the first.

As thing stand right now I think we're looking at LT if Williams drops or CB in the first. If Harvey drops to us I think we might comtemplate him or offers. What could make things interesting is there's a few teams behind that are probably going to look to add a WR. Someone might be willing to jump ahead of the others to get their guy.

I agree, I think if a WR in demand is there at 18, that is the only way we trade down. But if it's a any of the following DE, OT, CB, RB, LB we stand pat and pick BPA. I think if they feel all the need spots are gonna be gone at 18, I could see us trying to move up a short ways. I also would not rule out a strait up trade of one of our QB's for a positon of need player. but who knows.

Arky
04-04-2008, 04:21 PM
Any DE that falls to us in the first wouldnt be a "situational pass rusher ". Take a look at the production from the DE spot opposite of Mario and tell me that isnt a spot where we need help. In fact I would rate DE, OT and CB as need # 1, 1a & 1b.

It is well known that Smithiack tend/prefer to go after OL in the later rounds and have already been sucesfull doing just that in their short time here. It is also well known that they like or prefer to go with D in the early rounds. If by some miricle Harvey should fall to #18 I couldnt imagine anyone being rated higher on ou board.

Yes, that is the way I see it, too.

You've got a coach (Gibbs) who's bold enough to say he only needs late round OL to accomplish what he needs to do. Going by YPG, you've got the 14th ranked offense and the 24th ranked defense... What side of the ball are you looking to improve? Defense is where I would go and most likely a CB.

Having said that, I sure wish they would get the future LT in the 1st round and be done with it....

badboy
04-04-2008, 04:31 PM
Yes, that is the way I see it, too.

You've got a coach (Gibbs) who's bold enough to say he only needs late round OL to accomplish what he needs to do. Going by YPG, you've got the 14th ranked offense and the 24th ranked defense... What side of the ball are you looking to improve? Defense is where I would go and most likely a CB.

Having said that, I sure wish they would get the future LT in the 1st round and be done with it....I don't care if my offense is #1 if the QB is in danger as ours were last season, I want a better LT and RB. We can get the CB in 3rd and pretty good ones in 4th. 5th round can go for OLB or DE.

ObsiWan
04-04-2008, 05:11 PM
Any DE that falls to us in the first wouldnt be a "situational pass rusher ". Take a look at the production from the DE spot opposite of Mario and tell me that isnt a spot where we need help. In fact I would rate DE, OT and CB as need # 1, 1a & 1b.

It is well known that Smithiack tend/prefer to go after OL in the later rounds and have already been sucesfull doing just that in their short time here. It is also well known that they like or prefer to go with D in the early rounds. If by some miricle Harvey should fall to #18 I couldnt imagine anyone being rated higher on ou board.

Check this out, even ESPN thinks we can find a gem at DE on the second day. Some of the guys listed in the piece below are from small colleges, but then, so was Jacoby.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/insider/columns/story?columnist=muench_steve&id=3327311


Mississippi State DE Titus Brown (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&id=12070)

There's no use in sugarcoating it: Brown doesn't have the size or speed teams are looking for in a defensive end. He has limited experience dropping into coverage, something that gives pause to teams looking to make an undersized end into a 3-4 linebacker. The good news for Brown, though, is that he has shown he can get to the quarterback despite his shortcomings, and there aren't many great pass rushers in this class. He is admittedly going to have a difficult time turning the corner at the NFL level, but he has the quickness, relentlessness and upper-body strength, as well as
enough lateral mobility, to develop an effective arsenal of pass rush moves. That might be just enough to make him a fifth-round pick.
Houston might be the ideal place for Brown. The Texans' decision to take DE Mario Williams (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=7750) No. 1 overall pick in 2006 panned out and gave them an elite pass rusher. However, Anthony Weaver (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5938) lines up opposite Williams and is far better stopping the run than he is rushing the passer, so Houston would do well to add a situational pass rusher. Equally important is the fact that Brown wouldn't face many double teams with Williams and 2007 first-round DT Amobi Okoye (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=8264) drawing so much attention from blockers. The Jets, on the other hand, would not be a good fit for Brown. They just don't have that dominant edge rusher to draw attention away from him and he doesn't have the size they like at outside linebacker.



My viewpoint is that there's no sense in spending 1st day money on a 3rd down rushing specialist. Especially when the money would be better spent, IMHO, on a LT, CB, or RB who will end up starting.

I'll give you that Gibbs sez he can make the 3rd rounder of his choosing work in his system.

Fine.... to paraphrase The Tuna, Gibbs is doin' the cooking, let him pick the groceries. Let him pick his project starting with the 3rd round.

But if I'm gonna spend round one money, and it NOT be a stud LT, then I wanna spend it on a Rogers-Cromartie-kind of CB or a Mendenhall/Steward-quality RB. Like the article sez, DE/OLB pass-rusher types - that would mainly play on 3rd and long - can be found on the second day of the draft.

Polo
04-04-2008, 05:11 PM
I think if Keith Rivers falls to us we take him.

badboy
04-04-2008, 05:19 PM
I'm thinking with Dline Weaver will be better as healthy and spotlight not on Mario or Okoye this year but on him and TJ. Plus LBs to be better and faster and may see increase of sacks and QB hurries. Also I think our defense of pass will be better with Bennett knowing he is starter and Demps trying to show he can do it for 16. Will have better SS also. Then D will be on field less due to our new ZBS and GREAT rb and new LT. Whew, I need to breathe now.

Polo
04-04-2008, 05:59 PM
Not sure why folks keep picking at TJ...

The guy played pretty well last year..

mussop
04-04-2008, 08:08 PM
My viewpoint is that there's no sense in spending 1st day money on a 3rd down rushing specialist. Especially when the money would be better spent, IMHO, on a LT, CB, or RB who will end up starting. .

Again any DE we draft @18 isnt going to be a "3rd down rushing specialist". He is going to be a stud like Harvey. He most likely will be gone anyway but if he did fall he would start right away and would be an every down player for years to come.


But if I'm gonna spend round one money, and it NOT be a stud LT, then I wanna spend it on a Rogers-Cromartie-kind of CB or a Mendenhall/Steward-quality RB. Like the article sez, DE/OLB pass-rusher types - that would mainly play on 3rd and long - can be found on the second day of the draft.

Mendenhall and Cromartie most likely will be gone by our pick and what will be left over isnt that much better than what we could get in the 3rd round. The article you are refering to suggest that we get a siuational pass rusher (which is all that will be available in the later rounds) to play behind Weaver. IIRC, Weaver plus said rookies contract would add up to more than what it would cost to get a DE like Harvey @18. Not to mention this is most likely Weavers last year if he even makes it past june 1st. He is paid way to much for his production. If we draft a 3rd down specialist who takes Weavers place after he is gone?

Make no mistake about it DE that doesnt come off the field would have a huge impact for this team and you very rarely find them anywhere but at the top of the draft.

RipTraxx
04-04-2008, 10:42 PM
I think if Keith Rivers falls to us we take him.

Man i thought i was the only one......

TK_Gamer
04-04-2008, 10:53 PM
Here's the problem with "situational" pass rushers, the other teams know when you have your pass rush package in so they work around it, they pass on first down or second down, then wait for your pass rush package and run draws and screens. I like having 2 guys that are in there say 75 percent of the time and let the other team guess when we are bringin the heat. Some guys sneak thru the cracks on the second day, but most of the true edge rushers are first day guys I think.

b0ng
04-04-2008, 11:05 PM
Man i thought i was the only one......

Really I'm sure lots of us would love to have a really good OLB prospect like Rivers, but this LB class this year does not look all that great. Most of the good "LB's" that are coming out are actually defensive ends that are just going to take OLB spots in a 3-4.

Rivers would be a great prospect, but I don't see the Bengals, Bronco's, and other assorted teams passing on him enough to fall.

Other OLB's that I like are also Xavier Adibi and Erin Henderson.

ObsiWan
04-04-2008, 11:21 PM
I think if Keith Rivers falls to us we take him.

Hmmmm... now that's an interesting thought. Another stud to put along side DeMeco. I could live with that. OLB isn't at the top of my list of needs but if he's the best guy on the board when we pick, so be it.

The Pencil Neck
04-05-2008, 04:11 AM
Man i thought i was the only one......


Several of us have mentioned it over the past couple of months.

badboy
04-07-2008, 03:00 PM
Not sure why folks keep picking at TJ...

The guy played pretty well last year..I think saying focus will be on TJ this year is very reasonable. He seemed to respond to the "talk" Kubes had with him. Will he continue to grow or slide back? I think the former. I think many will be watching and hoping that he and Weaver will do well in 08.

Polo
04-07-2008, 03:28 PM
I think saying focus will be on TJ this year is very reasonable.

Sure it's reasonable. Any individual can choose what they want to focus on. It's even reasonable that the focus will be on Toro. Remember, he's the deep guy wearing number one.....

My question was in regards to those that constantly nag about him...Personally I'm not worried about TJ....I think we're ok there...

From Jethro Franklin's comments he seems to feel the same.

Rex King
04-07-2008, 04:10 PM
He gets stick because of his past history and his draft status. Maybe he'll turn out to be a late bloomer, but up to year three he hasn't played like a 1st rounder. Some things, like the fact we gave up 4.4 ypc, 26th in the league, aren't necessarily his fault. Mario aside, we have an undersized front seven. With all the positive comments about TJ as you say, and no talk about needing a DT, I suppose they're going to continue with a they're philosophy of both tackles playing the gaps. Sorry for the digression. I'm just worried about it.