PDA

View Full Version : Possible Trading Partners-QB


Texans_Chick
03-26-2008, 01:31 PM
Obviously the Vikings have come up in rumors, but I'm thinking that there are a bunch more situations where Rosenfels might be an upgrade over the current situation. (Just look that the NFL.com stats) Maybe ones that might not immediately come to mind.

What are the list of teams who really:

1. Need a backup QB.

and/or

2. Have a starting QB who is a little eh.

3. May be wanting to groom a new QB and have a reasonably good training starter.

4. Don't have reasons not to get Rosenfels (i.e. just signed a backup QB for too much money, don't want to cause QB problems).


For those teams:

1. What do they have to offer the Texans as far as draft picks or other considerations.

2. What other reasons might they want to deal. (Relationships with coaches, the Texans often deal with them, etc).

I know that this has been talked about at various places in different threads but I would like for this thread to be only on possible trading partners with the Texans for Sage Rosenfels. The Texans sometimes do things that are suprising, so I'd like to make this a specific topic for discussion.

Basically, I'm looking for situations that have the potential of being win-win for both teams because those are a lot of the trades that happen.

badboy
03-26-2008, 01:39 PM
I wanted to ask this but did not think I could word it to say what I wanted. It seems there might be teams that could bid against each other for Sage as we get closer to pick #18. Thanks TC.

beerlover
03-26-2008, 01:50 PM
Atlanta has three 2nd rd. picks, use one to draft your future starting QB & trade a second for a QB (Sage) ready to start now. Like Joe Flacco, similar talent to Schaub but like Matt untested & will need time to develop. In meantime Sage can come in run the offense as your starter, on the cheap, if trading two 2nd rd. picks worked to address the QB situation for the Texans why not the Falcons? I feel this is a safer more cost effective route than using the 3rd overall pick on Matt Ryan.

Goldensilence
03-26-2008, 01:55 PM
Carolina comes to mind but might have soured with us after taking on Davey. They'd be smart to draft Brohm though instead of taking LT Williams...at least I am hoping they will.

Baltimore needs help but I think they'll draft another QB this year maybe Woodson.

Packers who just got an extra second will probably be looking for backup help.

ATL now has 3 second rounders. Would be way easier and faster to give usa second back and at least solidify their QB situation until their QB draftee gets ready.

TexanSam
03-26-2008, 02:20 PM
The Bills might. They have Trent Edwards and JP Losman. Sage might be an upgrade over both.

Heck, maybe the Bucs too. Just because Jon Gruden seems to collect QBs.

Trap_Star
03-26-2008, 02:22 PM
The Bills might. They have Trent Edwards and JP Losman. Sage might be an upgrade over both.

Heck, maybe the Bucs too. Just because Jon Gruden seems to collect QBs.

i think the Bills are sold with Edwards as the future.

b0ng
03-26-2008, 02:34 PM
Baltimore, San Fran, NYJ, and KC are all teams that I think have big question marks at QB.

EDIT: I will expound on this at a later time.

chicagotexan2
03-26-2008, 02:36 PM
I still can't believe that Lovey has faith in Wrecks Grossman. They should be considering another option, if not then Lovey & Angelo can't be too bright.

DiehardChris
03-26-2008, 02:42 PM
It won't be Atlanta, because they already signed Chris Redman... unless they somehow aren't thinking about taking a QB, which would be a shock.

TheRealJoker
03-26-2008, 02:48 PM
What does everyone think of the possibility of us trading UP to Carolina or Chicago at 13 or 14 with Sage and a pick swap?

Say Smithiak falls in love with a prospect not likely to fall to 18 that happens to be the unlikely player that unexpectedly falls every draft. Say that player is one of DRC/Mendenhall/Clady. If you were Smithiak would you trade Sage and 18 to get up to 13 or 14 and snag your franchise CB or RB or LT?

beerlover
03-26-2008, 03:10 PM
What does everyone think of the possibility of us trading UP to Carolina or Chicago at 13 or 14 with Sage and a pick swap?

Say Smithiak falls in love with a prospect not likely to fall to 18 that happens to be the unlikely player that unexpectedly falls every draft. Say that player is one of DRC/Mendenhall/Clady. If you were Smithiak would you trade Sage and 18 to get up to 13 or 14 and snag your franchise CB or RB or LT?

if my memory serves me correctly? the Texans traded back in 05 from the 13th pick to the 17th pick with N.O. for a 3rd rd. pick (which became Winston) so it would seem in the realm of possiblity :specnatz:

TheRealJoker
03-26-2008, 03:22 PM
if my memory serves me correctly? the Texans traded back in 05 from the 13th pick to the 17th pick with N.O. for a 3rd rd. pick (which became Winston) so it would seem in the realm of possiblity :specnatz:

That was a 3rd round pick NEXT year which is graded like a 4th round pick in the present year.

Just another example of Casserly's superior wheeling and dealing skills.... I swear, I think he made his career off robbing Ditka blind for Ricky Williams.

Ole Miss Texan
03-26-2008, 03:27 PM
What does everyone think of the possibility of us trading UP to Carolina or Chicago at 13 or 14 with Sage and a pick swap?

Say Smithiak falls in love with a prospect not likely to fall to 18 that happens to be the unlikely player that unexpectedly falls every draft. Say that player is one of DRC/Mendenhall/Clady. If you were Smithiak would you trade Sage and 18 to get up to 13 or 14 and snag your franchise CB or RB or LT?

I hadn't thought of that but I like where you're heading! I think a possibility could be Chris Williams. Unfortunately Carolina picks right after Denver (which is a popular spot for Williams to go).

So right after Carolina there is Chicago, Detroit, Arizona, and Minnesota. We could trade up for possibly Williams (if there) or a stud CB if we think the lions/cardinals/vikings may take him, possibly Mendenhall (over chicago/detroit/cardinals), or maybe even DE Derick Harvey (gulp, another DL).

Who are the players Carolina may be targeting? Williams, Mendenhall/Stewart, Kenny Phillips, Brohm?? I'm not exactly sure but if they think that player(s) will be there at #18 they sure would get better value.

It also really depends on what we value sage at. 2nd round pick is too vague. To get from #18 to #13 it would cost us apprx. 250 points per "the chart", which equates to the 4th pick in the 3rd round. The vikings "offered" us a 3rd rounder but they have the 10th(220pts) and the 19th(175pts) in the 3rd. If we value Sage as a "late" 2nd round pick- We may swap 1sts, give them sage, and ask for their 4th or 5th round pick.

I'd might do it if we gave up Sage and our 1st rounder and got LT Chris Williams + their 4th round pick. That is IF they think Williams would turn into a superior LT in our system.

El Tejano
03-26-2008, 04:41 PM
if my memory serves me correctly? the Texans traded back in 05 from the 13th pick to the 17th pick with N.O. for a 3rd rd. pick (which became Winston) so it would seem in the realm of possiblity :specnatz:

And when we did that Derrick Johnson went right before us to KC.

badboy
03-26-2008, 04:43 PM
I hadn't thought of that but I like where you're heading! I think a possibility could be Chris Williams. Unfortunately Carolina picks right after Denver (which is a popular spot for Williams to go).

So right after Carolina there is Chicago, Detroit, Arizona, and Minnesota. We could trade up for possibly Williams (if there) or a stud CB if we think the lions/cardinals/vikings may take him, possibly Mendenhall (over chicago/detroit/cardinals), or maybe even DE Derick Harvey (gulp, another DL).

Who are the players Carolina may be targeting? Williams, Mendenhall/Stewart, Kenny Phillips, Brohm?? I'm not exactly sure but if they think that player(s) will be there at #18 they sure would get better value.

It also really depends on what we value sage at. 2nd round pick is too vague. To get from #18 to #13 it would cost us apprx. 250 points per "the chart", which equates to the 4th pick in the 3rd round. The vikings "offered" us a 3rd rounder but they have the 10th(220pts) and the 19th(175pts) in the 3rd. If we value Sage as a "late" 2nd round pick- We may swap 1sts, give them sage, and ask for their 4th or 5th round pick.

I'd might do it if we gave up Sage and our 1st rounder and got LT Chris Williams + their 4th round pick. That is IF they think Williams would turn into a superior LT in our system.I do not think we'd get a swap of 1st up five places and get a 4th for Sage. Here is my problem with the trade up scenario, say we do the deal and get Williams who I really like; but at #18 you could have gotten Stewart. Heads up I take Williams over Stewart, but not giving up a 2nd round equivalent(Sage). I could have drafted Stewart and traded Sage for a 2nd (Vikings) and then selected Baker, Anthony Collins, Tony Hills, Cherilus, Duane Brown, John Greco or Jeremy Zuttah in 2nd or later. Of course no guarantee we get a second for Sage but it would be a draft day deal as would the trade up, I'm thinking. Don't think I'd do the trade up even if a 4th was thrown in.

nunusguy
03-26-2008, 04:58 PM
What does everyone think of the possibility of us trading UP to Carolina or Chicago at 13 or 14 with Sage and a pick swap?

If you buy into the validity of the "Value Charts", a team would need to offer "boot" equivilent to 'bout a low 2nd or high 3rd round pick to move
up to the vicinity of #12 or #13, and apparently Sage is worth that to certain teams.
Of course on the other hand we'd probably be picking there anyway had we not pulled out all the stops to win that meaningless game against the Jags scrubs in Reliant at the end of last year.

Texans_Chick
03-26-2008, 05:11 PM
If you buy into the validity of the "Value Charts", a team would need to offer "boot" equivilent to 'bout a low 2nd or high 3rd round pick to move
up to the vicinity of #12 or #13, and apparently Sage is worth that to certain teams.
Of course on the other hand we'd probably be picking there anyway had we not pulled out all the stops to win that meaningless game against the Jags scrubs in Reliant at the end of last year.

Though I know what you mean, it was not a meaningless game.

At some point your franchise needs not to be losers. That final game was as good a time as any to get a .500 record.

Ok, go back to the regularly scheduled thread in progress....

These are teams that people have mentioned as destinations:

Minnesota
Green Bay
Atlanta
Kansas City
Baltimore
Carolina
49ers
New York Jets
Bills
Bucs

Anyone care to put these in order from most likely to least? (I'm going to participate in this endeavor but at this point I want to hear your point of view). We don't have anything better to do this time of year other than discussing ooky ways to sneak beer into stadiums.

TexanSam
03-26-2008, 05:14 PM
We don't have anything better to do this time of year other than discussing ooky ways to sneak beer into stadiums.

That mission is very important! Especially since I'll be 21 by the time football season starts up again :doot:

Corrosion
03-26-2008, 05:31 PM
:deadhorse

I think this is the 3rd or 4th thread Ive seen for this discussion ..... the others have ended up locked ...... But Ill throw my two cents in . I dont see the Texans letting Sage go for anything less than a mid to top end 2nd rounder . After watching this team last season (Sage appeared in what 10 out of 16 games ?) , It would be foolish to be caught with no reliable #2 and #3 QB's ..... Unless of course the team employ's five big guy's wearing sunglasses and pistols under their coat's to protect the QB .


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5645519.html


In before the lock

David Carr ...........

:goodnight

Texans_Chick
03-26-2008, 05:37 PM
:deadhorse




http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5645519.html


In before the lock

:goodnight


I'm not sure that I understand. The last paragraph of the article indicates that the Texans may be wanting flexibility to trade to Minnesota or some other team. Clearly if someone offers the Texans a fabu deal, they are going to take it, no matter what Kubiak said recently in a March newspaper article.

I'm not trying to beat a deadhorse as it relates to whether Rosenfels should be traded or not. I'm just interested in potential destinations. Which ones make more sense than others.

I just want to have a realistic discussion about this. You know, like we were hanging out around a tailgate and just wondering out loud about different options.

The Pencil Neck
03-26-2008, 06:06 PM
These are teams that people have mentioned as destinations:

Minnesota
Green Bay
Atlanta
Kansas City
Baltimore
Carolina
49ers
New York Jets
Bills
Bucs

Anyone care to put these in order from most likely to least? (I'm going to participate in this endeavor but at this point I want to hear your point of view). We don't have anything better to do this time of year other than discussing ooky ways to sneak beer into stadiums.


I think there might be a few other interested parties:

Minnesota -- They've already made an offer.
Atlanta -- Draft a rookie and let Sage mentor.
Kansas City -- QB is a mess for this team.
Green Bay -- As a safety net for Rodgers.
Baltimore -- McNair is done and the others don't look good.
------- UNLIKELY BELOW THIS LINE ----------------
New York Jets -- I think they're focused on the Clemens experiment.
Bills -- I think Edwards is their guy.
Miami -- I don't think Sage could go back, but he would be a better mentor that McCown.
Chicago -- Their QB situation is not pretty. But I don't expect them to make a move.
Carolina -- I don't know how comfy they feel. But they probably appreciate Delhome more now.
49ers -- Martz already has Smith and he brought in "his boy" JT O'Sullivan for a backup.
Bucs -- No way.

CloakNNNdagger
03-26-2008, 07:13 PM
As screwy as Davis is, I don't believe that the Raiders' have made their final decisions on anything, that includes their QB(s) situation.

nero THE zero
03-26-2008, 07:36 PM
I know it seems to be a forgone conclusion that Sage is headed to the Vikings but I think GB is also a sleeper in this deal. They don't have a back up and Rogers is essentially unproven. I think, at the least, Houston could use Green Bay to drive up the price for Minnesota, if not come in and steal Sage.

TEXANRED
03-26-2008, 07:54 PM
We will trade Sage to the Titans for there 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and swap 5th's.

CloakNNNdagger
03-26-2008, 08:44 PM
We will trade Sage to the Titans for there 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and swap 5th's.

See, TEXANRED, you finally agree that Sage isn't going anywhere.:shades:

hollywood_texan
03-26-2008, 09:29 PM
If the Texans can get a 3rd or 4th round pick out of Sage, I say do it. I understand the strategy of holding firm to get a higher offer, but they need the extra pick. The Texans have sunk too much into the QB position (meaning David Carr and Matt Schaub) at the expense of the other positions. If you calculated some form of ROI on their investment in QBs, it would be a seriously underperforming asset.

Which brings me to Sage. The guy was cut/released/not resigned by the Dolphins and that is how the Texans picked him up at a bargain price. Buy low and sell high, that's how you make it in life and business.

Some people seem to believe Sage is a proven commodity that we can bank on the future. That is highly debatable. I believe 2007 was the first year Sage won a game as a starter!

There are a lot Pro Bowlers out there in the 3rd and 4th rounds, and if Rick Smith is as good as everyone thinks, this is his time to shine and leverage this asset. The Texans have so many needs in so many areas, you can't tell me there isn't one potential/development guy that could start immediately.

I understand the need for a backup as an insurance policy, but it just doesn't seem like an appropriate policy to pay for considering the current state of the team. The team is improving, but needs to make a big jump in 2008!

Which means the Texans are going to have to take a few calculated risks with personnel this offseason to get better faster and compete in the AFC South legitimately in 2008. Using Sage to accomplish that seems like a great opportunity.

Texans_Chick
03-26-2008, 11:05 PM
I think there might be a few other interested parties:

Minnesota -- They've already made an offer.
Atlanta -- Draft a rookie and let Sage mentor.
Kansas City -- QB is a mess for this team.
Green Bay -- As a safety net for Rodgers.
Baltimore -- McNair is done and the others don't look good.
------- UNLIKELY BELOW THIS LINE ----------------
New York Jets -- I think they're focused on the Clemens experiment.
Bills -- I think Edwards is their guy.
Miami -- I don't think Sage could go back, but he would be a better mentor that McCown.
Chicago -- Their QB situation is not pretty. But I don't expect them to make a move.
Carolina -- I don't know how comfy they feel. But they probably appreciate Delhome more now.
49ers -- Martz already has Smith and he brought in "his boy" JT O'Sullivan for a backup.
Bucs -- No way.

Thanks for responding to this thread on topic. Thoughtful points, while adding the Raiders because nobody knows what Davis will do.

Any thoughts about this particular list, with additional or different comments?

(Not really interested in whether Sage should be traded because I have a good sense of that, pros and cons--I'm just trying to get a better sense of what the market might be. I have thoughts rattling around in my head, but sometimes it is nice to see things in black and white).

CloakNNNdagger
03-26-2008, 11:38 PM
After last year's VY performance, with all due respect, he should have been putting every waking hour up till the time of the 2008 season concentrating on honing his football IQ and skills before reattending to what he should have already done in school. Having said that, I have to wonder how advantageous a "teacher" and backup Terry Collins is. I am not one who believes that VY will turn into what many believed at the draft. But that would be going off subject. However, Collins' tutelage, in my opinion is not giving Young the best chance for complete development, or the Tacks the best option at backup. Maybe someone in the Tacks organization recognizes all this and starts looking for a better alternative.......maybe.............With that said, the Tacks should make that list.............

Ole Miss Texan
03-27-2008, 12:59 AM
Any thoughts about this particular list, with additional or different comments?


I actually think Green Bay could be a good partner.

1) For us: They have two 2nd round picks- we want a second, maybe we'd take one of them from them (both are later 2nd rd)

2) For them: With Favre retiring (right? lol) They're left with Aaron Rodgers who isn not exactly making anyone excited. Obviously it's going to be hard to step in behind Favre but I don't think the packers are sold on rodgers being all that solid. They have a great young team that just went 13-3. I think they not only want insurance for Rodgers but that they may be looking at rodgers staying at backup and may see in training camp that Sage would be their starter. Could they draft a QB like Brohm at 30? probably but he's just going to hold the clip board and may not solve any problems, plus they miss out at a solid player that would be a starter.

I think Green Bay would make the perfect trading partner.

Joe Texan
03-27-2008, 01:04 AM
What do yall think, Trade sage and we have a qb problem, Matt goes down in the 1st game and we have a tight end and a newbie to run our team to the promis land. Not going to happen I tell you, Gary has done his homework and if a qb gets traded it will be the newest aquisition. We picked up this newbie for that reason. He was a good back up for another system, does not mean he is a good backup for our system. He is our #3 or we will trade. All this other hogwash is just that Hogwash.

Wolf
03-27-2008, 01:24 AM
for what Quinn Gray signed for, I doubt he will be traded or any team in the league would have jumped for him.

If Sage gets traded he gets traded, if not that is fine by me

way things sound from the front office is Sage will be here (smokescreen,could be but we will see)

The Pencil Neck
03-27-2008, 01:30 AM
With that said, the Tacks should make that list.............

I actually put them on the list and then removed them before I hit submit. Just because I think they have serious problems at QB doesn't mean they're allowing themselves to realize the problem they have.

AND...

I don't think we're going to trade Sage within the division unless they give us a deal of Casserlian proportions.

So that's why I pulled them from the list.

Goldensilence
03-27-2008, 02:11 AM
I actually put them on the list and then removed them before I hit submit. Just because I think they have serious problems at QB doesn't mean they're allowing themselves to realize the problem they have.

AND...

I don't think we're going to trade Sage within the division unless they give us a deal of Casserlian proportions.

So that's why I pulled them from the list.

I dunno about that he seemed to like Titans. He did throw the defense 4 passes this year...of course that's more completions then Vince has for their offense.

Giant Tiger
03-27-2008, 10:05 AM
I know it seems to be a forgone conclusion that Sage is headed to the Vikings but I think GB is also a sleeper in this deal. They don't have a back up and Rogers is essentially unproven. I think, at the least, Houston could use Green Bay to drive up the price for Minnesota, if not come in and steal Sage.

That's what I'm thinking too. Also don't count out the Bears. They want to stay a step ahead of the Vikings. So we should get a 2nd rounder. Nothing less. :cool:

CloakNNNdagger
03-27-2008, 10:13 AM
This is slowly turning into a trade Sage thread instead of who would be a possible trading partner.

badboy
03-27-2008, 10:14 AM
I think there might be a few other interested parties:

Minnesota -- They've already made an offer.
Atlanta -- Draft a rookie and let Sage mentor.
Kansas City -- QB is a mess for this team.
Green Bay -- As a safety net for Rodgers.
Baltimore -- McNair is done and the others don't look good.
------- UNLIKELY BELOW THIS LINE ----------------
New York Jets -- I think they're focused on the Clemens experiment.
Bills -- I think Edwards is their guy.
Miami -- I don't think Sage could go back, but he would be a better mentor that McCown.
Chicago -- Their QB situation is not pretty. But I don't expect them to make a move.
Carolina -- I don't know how comfy they feel. But they probably appreciate Delhome more now.
49ers -- Martz already has Smith and he brought in "his boy" JT O'Sullivan for a backup.
Bucs -- No way.Shh! Don't put Atlanta in for Sage. I have it on good authority from my make believe friend that Atlanta will trade up for our 1st and 5th rounds and give us their two 2nd rounds. We will then trade Sage to Vikings for their second round. We then sign Baker or Anthony Collins LT, Justin King CB and Forte RB. In 3rd, we draft Godfrey 6' 207 4.43 CB/FS and in 4th Tyvon Branch a chart climber CB/FS/KR @ 6' 204 4.31.

Texans_Chick
03-27-2008, 10:19 AM
I know I've seen these links in various different places, but if anyone has any links of different fans MBs talking about Sage Rosenfels to their team, please put them in this thread.

Though they may not have a good sense of what Rosenfels pros/cons are, they may have a very good sense of what they need at their QB position.

Remember, if you want to talk about the wisdom of such a trade, please put it in the other thread not in this one. This thread is about what the market might be for Rosenfels.

As for the Titans, I do not think that they would be interested in rocking their Vince Young/Kerry Collins boat. Nor do I think that the Texans would be inclined to make this sort of deal in division. I do think that the Titans are on the list of teams that would be improved with better QB-WR play, but given their investment in Young, I don't see them messing with his head or creating any controversy with their fans. That they believe they will get better QB play with further development and new coaching. (Do not want this paragraph to make this thread go into stupid land).

CloakNNNdagger
03-27-2008, 10:36 AM
That's what I'm thinking too. Also don't count out the Bears. They want to stay a step ahead of the Vikings. So we should get a 2nd rounder. Nothing less. :cool:

The Bears have brought in a "no name" QB to compete with their "unreliable" Wrecks Grossman. The Bears could/should be in the hunt for a known consistent performer.

nero THE zero
03-27-2008, 10:57 AM
I know I've seen these links in various different places, but if anyone has any links of different fans MBs talking about Sage Rosenfels to their team, please put them in this thread.

Though they may not have a good sense of what Rosenfels pros/cons are, they may have a very good sense of what they need at their QB position.


Here is a link to a FF forum. The consensus of Viking fan here is that even a third is too much to give up for "a back-up QB who's only had a couple of good games" (Sage.)

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=388160

Texans_Chick
03-27-2008, 11:07 AM
Here is a link to a FF forum. The consensus of Viking fan here is that even a third is too much to give up for "a back-up QB who's only had a couple of good games" (Sage.)

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=388160

That sort of sentiment is consistent with a more national view. Of course, given how their starting quarterback played last year in comparison to the games Rosenfels played, they should be the beggers who shouldn't be choosers.

Lucky
03-27-2008, 02:24 PM
Of course, given how their starting quarterback played last year in comparison to the games Rosenfels played, they should be the beggers who shouldn't be choosers.
I'm sure the Vikings coaches and front office realize that their season fell apart when they had to go to the backup QB (as did the Panthers). Even if their fans don't. What I don't know is how the Vikings plan to address the QB situation. I think their decision comes down to Rosenfels or J.P. Losman. Losman provides more upside, while Sage has more experience in the WCO. I still think it will be Rosenfels.

But if Losman is dealt, the Bills become a possible destination for Sage. And the Packers are a remote possibility.

ObsiWan
03-27-2008, 02:33 PM
What does everyone think of the possibility of us trading UP to Carolina or Chicago at 13 or 14 with Sage and a pick swap?

Say Smithiak falls in love with a prospect not likely to fall to 18 that happens to be the unlikely player that unexpectedly falls every draft. Say that player is one of DRC/Mendenhall/Clady. If you were Smithiak would you trade Sage and 18 to get up to 13 or 14 and snag your franchise CB or RB or LT?

No.
None of your example guys are worth giving up Sage AND a pick to make sure we get this Mr. Wonderful...
Since everyone says we need a stud OT, I'll start there.

After Clady on the OT prospect list, there's Williams, Otah, Cherilius, and Sam Baker. Now is Clady so much better than those guys (and they can't ALL be gone by 18) that I'd give up Sage AND a pick to get him. I don't think so. And I'd bet Smithiak won't either.

And that's just one position, as you well know, we've got needs other places. So if the OT I'm targeting is gone, then I'll look at CB or S or RB. No way do I weaken one of the strengths of the team, QB, on a prospect.

CloakNNNdagger
03-27-2008, 02:43 PM
No.
None of your example guys are worth giving up Sage AND a pick to make sure we get this Mr. Wonderful...
Since everyone says we need a stud OT, I'll start there.

After Clady on the OT prospect list, there's Williams, Otah, Cherilius, and Sam Baker. Now is Clady so much better than those guys (and they can't ALL be gone by 18) that I'd give up Sage AND a pick to get him. I don't think so. And I'd bet Smithiak won't either.

And that's just one position, as you well know, we've got needs other places. So if the OT I'm targeting is gone, then I'll look at CB or S or RB. No way do I weaken one of the strengths of the team, QB, on a prospect.

Wiser words could not be written.

ObsiWan
03-27-2008, 03:04 PM
I think there might be a few other interested parties:

Minnesota -- They've already made an offer.
Atlanta -- Draft a rookie and let Sage mentor.
Kansas City -- QB is a mess for this team.
Green Bay -- As a safety net for Rodgers.
Baltimore -- McNair is done and the others don't look good.
------- UNLIKELY BELOW THIS LINE ----------------
New York Jets -- I think they're focused on the Clemens experiment.
Bills -- I think Edwards is their guy.
Miami -- I don't think Sage could go back, but he would be a better mentor that McCown.
Chicago -- Their QB situation is not pretty. But I don't expect them to make a move.
Carolina -- I don't know how comfy they feel. But they probably appreciate Delhome more now.
49ers -- Martz already has Smith and he brought in "his boy" JT O'Sullivan for a backup.
Bucs -- No way.

Disclaimer:
I do NOT subscribe to the idea of trading Sage given our historically bad luck with injuries.

Now that we have that out of the way...

I like the teams on your list. In fact, I hadn't thought about GB but now that the old guy is gone, their backup QBs are all "whodats". Good call.

The only change I'd make is to move the Bills above the line. I don't think Losman wants to hang around playing second fiddle. I hear he didn't show up for "voluntary" workouts. I'd move them from "Unlikely" to maybe.

I think Carolina would be more than a little interested also. But since they, too, are in rebuilding mode, I doubt they want to give up a first day pick for a #2 guy. Besides, their fanbase may storm the front office with torches and pitch forks if they pick up another Texan QB.
:D

TEXANRED
03-27-2008, 06:22 PM
See, TEXANRED, you finally agree that Sage isn't going anywhere.:shades:

I responded to you with a joke and my post was deleted. Not even a little hey this is why I deleted your post.

infantrycak
03-27-2008, 06:28 PM
I responded to you with a joke and my post was deleted. Not even a little hey this is why I deleted your post.

Didn't do it, but no rickrolling.

CloakNNNdagger
03-27-2008, 08:27 PM
I responded to you with a joke and my post was deleted. Not even a little hey this is why I deleted your post.

All in fun......:toast2:

TEXANRED
03-27-2008, 08:34 PM
Didn't do it, but no rickrolling.

ahh c'mon. Could have been worse, could have linked Demp's man thong site, again.

hollywood_texan
03-27-2008, 08:39 PM
What do yall think, Trade sage and we have a qb problem, Matt goes down in the 1st game and we have a tight end and a newbie to run our team to the promis land. Not going to happen I tell you, Gary has done his homework and if a qb gets traded it will be the newest aquisition. We picked up this newbie for that reason. He was a good back up for another system, does not mean he is a good backup for our system. He is our #3 or we will trade. All this other hogwash is just that Hogwash.

I don't think we can count on Sage taking the Texans to the promise land.

The secondary is extremely thin even with Dunta Robinson, and without him it seems ridiculous. Still don't have a running back for the long term, same situation with the left tackle position.

We got Sage for cheap. It's time to cash out and find another guy the same way we got Sage.

The guys are out there for Rick Smith to find and for Kubiak to coach up. I believe this Sage situation can be duplicated again.

Sage is luxury/insurance policy that really doesn't add value to the team getting out of last place in the AFC South.

Joe Texan
03-27-2008, 09:16 PM
No way I am selling out the best backup for our system,

I think that any team with any question at QB is a possible trading partner, seems that we have the most info on the Broncos. I say we are putting together a good team and we do not really have the personell to trade for profit.

2slik4u
03-27-2008, 09:18 PM
i would like to see us trade with the vikings for one of two possibilities:

1. for a 3rd round AND a 6th round(to make up for the 6th we gave up)

or

2. obviously for a 2nd rounder.


other teams???? washington? maybe jacksonville, no quinn, no leftwich?

you decide.


fat d sucks

:texflag:

badboy
03-28-2008, 11:20 AM
i would like to see us trade with the vikings for one of two possibilities:

1. for a 3rd round AND a 6th round(to make up for the 6th we gave up)

or

2. obviously for a 2nd rounder.


other teams???? washington? maybe jacksonville, no quinn, no leftwich?

you decide.


fat d sucks

:texflag:Does Sage have to be traded for draft picks? What about teams that might offer a player? Does that widen the horizons? Example Bryant McKinnie for Sage.

TK_Gamer
03-28-2008, 11:55 AM
I think Sage is a good backup, so what? Some people on this board act like he is the 2nd comming or something and can't be touched or traded or replaced. Sorry, anyone can be replaced. I have no doubt that in 3 months time Quinn Gray will know the offense well enough to back up Schaub or whoever else we have starting at QB. I stated a long time ago that Carr or Kubiak would be gone and everyone acted the same way. "There's no way they get rid of Carr next year" that's what everyone said. Well... I guess they can get rid of or trade anyone they want now can't they? I'm not trying to be a jerk, just trying to be realistic. Anyone can be replaced and Sage is not our golden boy that will carry us to the Super Bowl. If they get a chance to improve our team and it costs us a BACKUP QB, then so be it. The fact of the matter is we plain just don't know what they will or won't do, but I guarantee, they won't be asking for our input on the subject. Make the team a winner, that's all that matters to me..

Thorn
03-28-2008, 12:36 PM
The reason I donít want Sage traded has nothing to do with Sage himself. Itís because it has yet to be shown that Schaub can play a full season and we need someone who can come in for a stretch and win, which Sage has proven he can do.

So, when Schaub proves he can stand up for 16 games, Iíll be more inclined towards trading Sage if Gray works out. To be honest, Iíd like to keep all three this season.

drewmar74
03-28-2008, 02:16 PM
The reason I donít want Sage traded has nothing to do with Sage himself. Itís because it has yet to be shown that Schaub can play a full season and we need someone who can come in for a stretch and win, which Sage has proven he can do.

So, when Schaub proves he can stand up for 16 games, Iíll be more inclined towards trading Sage if Gray works out. To be honest, Iíd like to keep all three this season.

I'd like to elaborate on this, but it expresses how I feel pretty succinctly.

So, in short - "Yeah, what he said."

2slik4u
03-29-2008, 09:01 PM
I think Sage is a good backup, so what? Some people on this board act like he is the 2nd comming or something and can't be touched or traded or replaced. Sorry, anyone can be replaced. I have no doubt that in 3 months time Quinn Gray will know the offense well enough to back up Schaub or whoever else we have starting at QB. I stated a long time ago that Carr or Kubiak would be gone and everyone acted the same way. "There's no way they get rid of Carr next year" that's what everyone said. Well... I guess they can get rid of or trade anyone they want now can't they? I'm not trying to be a jerk, just trying to be realistic. Anyone can be replaced and Sage is not our golden boy that will carry us to the Super Bowl. If they get a chance to improve our team and it costs us a BACKUP QB, then so be it. The fact of the matter is we plain just don't know what they will or won't do, but I guarantee, they won't be asking for our input on the subject. Make the team a winner, that's all that matters to me..



i agree with you on the "anyone can be traded" comment. what im saying is we as an orginization have an opportunity to sell high on sage with his "stock" being higher than it ever has been. i think now that we brought quinn gray in, that now gives us more flexibility to gain some draft picks that we have given up. on the other hand, schaub is a great QB but if he cant prove he can play a full season then maybe we should be talking about something else. the acquisition of quinn gray was proof that we might be a little more interested in the "sage for draft picks" talk.

also, to reply to a post earlier, i dont think i would be very interested in getting a player in a trade for sage unless its a automatic starter (which i dont think we will get). the future is in the draft picks, hopefully a 2nd rounder, or a possibly a 3rd and a 6th. either one of those scenarios i would be happy with.

ObsiWan
03-29-2008, 09:26 PM
I don't think we can count on Sage taking the Texans to the promise land.

The secondary is extremely thin even with Dunta Robinson, and without him it seems ridiculous. Still don't have a running back for the long term, same situation with the left tackle position.

We got Sage for cheap. It's time to cash out and find another guy the same way we got Sage.

The guys are out there for Rick Smith to find and for Kubiak to coach up. I believe this Sage situation can be duplicated again.

Sage is luxury/insurance policy that really doesn't add value to the team getting out of last place in the AFC South.

Okay Hollywood, name names. Don't just throw a statement like that out in the wind. Let's hear some names.

And another thing that's wrong with that premise. Whoever you find will need "coaching up". Sage already knows the offense as well as Matt does. So no drop off in effectiveness should Sage need to step in. And before you mention Quinn Gray, even he is going to go through a learning period while he picks up our offense. He won't be ready to step in and be as effective as Sage would until probably midseason. With some youngster needing "coaching up", it would be worse.

Unless we get a Godfather deal (an offer we can't refuse), we'll have 3 QBs and probably one on the practice squad, in 2008.

The Pencil Neck
03-30-2008, 12:11 AM
the acquisition of quinn gray was proof that we might be a little more interested in the "sage for draft picks" talk.


Don't write too much into the acquisition of Quinn Gray. If we had signed him to backup money, then I'd say we were actively shopping Sage. But we signed Gray for the bare minimum allowed. That's almost like we were saying "If you want to come here, great. But you should probably look elsewhere. You're only going to play in an emergency."

So while I agree with you that having Gray gives us a little more insurance if someone comes to us with a great deal for Sage, I don't think it means that we're actively preparing for that. The QB position, which I think was a strength before this move, just became stronger.

The thing I can't understand is why Quinn would choose to come here where he's almost definitely a #3 and will make less money. I expected someone, somewhere to offer him more than the minimum and I would have expected him to prefer that to coming here.

beerlover
03-30-2008, 12:17 AM
The thing I can't understand is why Quinn would choose to come here where he's almost definitely a #3 and will make less money. I expected someone, somewhere to offer him more than the minimum and I would have expected him to prefer that to coming here.

he's stated he loves Houston & the warmer climate. secondly he likes the direction of the Texans & its coaching staff. thirdly he's expereinced to know he'll get a shot @ some PT to showcase his wares, make a statement to the league & to the Texans if they want to keep him around he needs some long term security. its basicly a win-win situation for everyone :)

ObsiWan
03-30-2008, 08:34 AM
Don't write too much into the acquisition of Quinn Gray. If we had signed him to backup money, then I'd say we were actively shopping Sage. But we signed Gray for the bare minimum allowed. That's almost like we were saying "If you want to come here, great. But you should probably look elsewhere. You're only going to play in an emergency."

So while I agree with you that having Gray gives us a little more insurance if someone comes to us with a great deal for Sage, I don't think it means that we're actively preparing for that. The QB position, which I think was a strength before this move, just became stronger.

The thing I can't understand is why Quinn would choose to come here where he's almost definitely a #3 and will make less money. I expected someone, somewhere to offer him more than the minimum and I would have expected him to prefer that to coming here.

That is confusing. Someone said Quinn is a warm-weather boy so maybe he wanted to stay in the south. I know he totally blew off the Buffalo trip in deciding to stay here. And he said on the HT.com video that F/A "didn't turn as well as I wanted it to..." So maybe he didn't get any better offers.

http://houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4230

He also said that he's got friends on the team, guys that he knew in Florida, A.J., Travis Johnson, Anthony Maddox were the guys he named... Maybe they talked to him

CloakNNNdagger
03-30-2008, 10:02 AM
The thing I can't understand is why Quinn would choose to come here where he's almost definitely a #3 and will make less money. I expected someone, somewhere to offer him more than the minimum and I would have expected him to prefer that to coming here.

Something still tells keeps telling me that the Texans may feel that his value goes up as time goes on. And that with the NFL QB positions now pretty well dried up and someone doesn't work out or someone gets injured, a Quinn deal can be had.

Joe Texan
03-30-2008, 10:37 AM
A team with the need for a back up is just as likely to take Quinn as Sage, Sure they want sage but they can't have him, Take Quinn. We have done this with other QB's late in the draft. Sage is a solid Texan, Quinn is a learner, But I see a trading partner leaning for a QB will be more inticed to take a guy who was not as schooled in our system and able to learn thier system quicker. Sage is A solid Texan and will stay and ride the train to the playoffs baby.

Lucky
03-30-2008, 11:08 AM
...But I see a trading partner leaning for a QB will be more inticed to take a guy who was not as schooled in our system and able to learn thier system quicker.
Unless they run a similar WCO as the Texans. As the Vikings & Packers do.

Specnatz
03-30-2008, 11:28 AM
A team with the need for a back up is just as likely to take Quinn as Sage, Sure they want sage but they can't have him, Take Quinn. We have done this with other QB's late in the draft. Sage is a solid Texan, Quinn is a learner, But I see a trading partner leaning for a QB will be more inticed to take a guy who was not as schooled in our system and able to learn thier system quicker. Sage is A solid Texan and will stay and ride the train to the playoffs baby.

Joe if this was the case the Vikings would have tried to sign Gray before offering us a third for Sage while Gray was still a FA.

CloakNNNdagger
03-30-2008, 01:02 PM
Joe if this was the case the Vikings would have tried to sign Gray before offering us a third for Sage while Gray was still a FA.

In considering options, teams can make the wrong decisions (haven't we made some of those in the past?) and bypass choices just to find out later that when that choice is no longer available, the choice may have been the best option..........and now there seems to be no viable options for them. There comes to mind the saying "When you snooze, you lose."

threetoedpete
03-30-2008, 01:54 PM
Atlanta has three 2nd rd. picks, use one to draft your future starting QB & trade a second for a QB (Sage) ready to start now. Like Joe Flacco, similar talent to Schaub but like Matt untested & will need time to develop. In meantime Sage can come in run the offense as your starter, on the cheap, if trading two 2nd rd. picks worked to address the QB situation for the Texans why not the Falcons? I feel this is a safer more cost effective route than using the 3rd overall pick on Matt Ryan.

agreed. No less of a bust factor on Flacco than there is on Ryan. I just can't see arthur Blank running to the poduim to pony up another thirty million just after he ate forty million on Vick. There is fine line between being brave and being...well stupid. Thank you sir may I please have another ? Gruden has hoarded all of the second teired QBs...going to be funny if the rest of the league makes him carry them into august.

If Minnie offer up the threes...both of them, for Sage do the deal.

Thorn
03-30-2008, 02:45 PM
Sage is A solid Texan and will stay and ride the train to the playoffs baby.


That is worth quoting.

ObsiWan
03-30-2008, 02:47 PM
Atlanta and KC both need to find a starter. Sorry, I'm not sold on Brodie Croyle.

Carolina, Minnesota, and Green Bay all need a reliable back up QB.

Come to think of it who does Denver have as Cutler's backup? Patrick Ramsey? They might be shopping to upgrade the back-up QB spot too.