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ArlingtonTexan
02-28-2008, 06:02 PM
According to a league source, Minnesota is offering Houston a third-round 2008 draft pick in exchange for backup Sage Rosenfels, who went 4-1 last season in place of injured Texans starter Matt Schaub. Houston, which finished a franchise-best 8-8 last season, is said to be seeking a second-round pick in exchange for Rosenfels, who is not a free agent.



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/don_banks/02/28/notebook/index.html

Hutch13
02-28-2008, 06:03 PM
Was just about to post this.

It'd be a tempting deal for me. I'd be suprised if the vikings would give up a 2nd for him but you never know.



For a third, I'd think about it.

For a second, yes.

Malloy
02-28-2008, 06:03 PM
oh nose :/

2 second-round picks is what we paid to get our starting QB. Tell the Vikes that the price hasn't changed ;)

brakos82
02-28-2008, 06:04 PM
oh nose :/
oh ear :/

The1ApplePie
02-28-2008, 06:05 PM
Hello John David Booty in the 4th?

maddogmrb
02-28-2008, 06:05 PM
At this point, I wouldn't trade our best QB.:fans:

nero THE zero
02-28-2008, 06:05 PM
No way I do this. Schaub hasn't proven he can stay healthy going back to his days at Virginia and, without something to legitimately back him up, I don't let our insurance go for less than a second.

Texans_Chick
02-28-2008, 06:06 PM
Do not like.

Do not like this rumor at all.

This league requires two quarterbacks, or one quarterback and a whole heck of a lot of luck. The Texans haven't had their share.

The Texans much earlier in the preseason denied a desire to shop Rosenfels.

We have enough messed up need positions on this team without creating another one.

Texan_Bill
02-28-2008, 06:07 PM
I think 60 different quarterbacks started NFL games last season. Proof alone that unless your name is Brady or Manning, you need a good back-up QB.

(Of course Carolina alone accounted for four of them)

bah007
02-28-2008, 06:08 PM
At this point, I wouldn't trade our best QB.:fans:

Schaub isnt on the market.

brakos82
02-28-2008, 06:09 PM
I think 60 different quarterbacks started NFL games last season. Proof alone that unless your name is Brady or Manning, you need a good back-up QB.

(Of course Carolina alone accounted for four of them)
Dell Homie isn't a back-up.

"Need Backup!!!"

jaayteetx
02-28-2008, 06:09 PM
Put me in the don't trade Sage camp also. Too valuable to have a guy come in off the bench and not lose a beat.

Errant Hothy
02-28-2008, 06:09 PM
I say that you have to pull the trigger on this. Schaub is the QB, and the Vikings 3rd is more then I though he would ever be worth.

Playoff caliber team's need veteran back-ups, for a team like the Texans the pick is more usefull then Sage (regardless if it's a 2nd or a 3rd round pick).

Double Barrel
02-28-2008, 06:10 PM
Don't do it, Texans!! :bat:

nero THE zero
02-28-2008, 06:10 PM
Hello John David Booty in the 4th?

That is an interesting perspective though. Considering Kubiak's background, maybe we could get away with shipping out Rosenfels, signing a veteran like Nall, and drafting a QB who fits the system in the middle rounds to groom if the Schaub experiment doesn't work out.

Kaiser Toro
02-28-2008, 06:10 PM
Do it for a 2nd round pick.

Texan_Bill
02-28-2008, 06:11 PM
Dell Homie isn't a back-up.

"Need Backup!!!"

*ahem*... 'Dell Homie' was one of four starters that Carolina played counting towards the 60+ starting QB's last season...

Nawzer
02-28-2008, 06:12 PM
I don't think Rick Smith will make this trade if it were true. He knows after making the deal for Matt Schaub that having a good backup qb is very important for the team. I would think about this deal if the Vikes would pony up a second rounder to go with the third.

bah007
02-28-2008, 06:12 PM
I know how we can piss off the VY homers!

Get this trade done (for a 2nd rounder) & then pick up the super-athletic Josh Johnson from San Diego late in the draft.

Malloy
02-28-2008, 06:13 PM
Who knows, Rosenfels might be pushing for this opportunity?

Lucky
02-28-2008, 06:13 PM
That would be a nice deal for the Vikes. And a good career move for Sage. But is it the right deal for the Texans? They'd have to find a backup on the free agent market (Josh McCown?). Then hope Schaub can play the full schedule. It seems too risky for the 73rd pick in the draft.

Leahmic223
02-28-2008, 06:14 PM
Seems like we are really trying to get a 2nd round pick back...

Honoring Earl 34
02-28-2008, 06:14 PM
How many years is Sage signed for ?

bah007
02-28-2008, 06:14 PM
If a starter is worth two 2nd rounders, then a near-starter should be worth at least a 2nd rounder.

Lucky
02-28-2008, 06:15 PM
How many years is Sage signed for ?
Through 2009.

TEXANS84
02-28-2008, 06:15 PM
Im out. Sage is a valuable product in our system.

Do NOT do it.

LonerATO
02-28-2008, 06:15 PM
I know how we can piss off the VY homers!

Get this trade done (for a 2nd rounder) & then pick up the super-athletic Josh Johnson from San Diego late in the draft.

I would back JJ

Malloy
02-28-2008, 06:17 PM
If a starter is worth two 2nd rounders, then a near-starter should be worth at least a 2nd rounder.

According to my logic, Rosenfels is as much of a starter this year as Schaub were last year. Unless Rosenfels is making alot of noice to make this deal go through, I would not trade him for less than what we gave for Schaub, 2 second-rounders.

TEXANS84
02-28-2008, 06:17 PM
Actually, we could actually trade Sage and re-sign Carr as a backup.


*just woke back up from that horrible nightmare, carry on*

Leahmic223
02-28-2008, 06:19 PM
Actually, we could actually trade Sage and re-sign Carr as a backup.


*just woke back up from that horrible nightmare, carry on*

:gun:

LOL...

I am just laughing at the thought...

Malloy
02-28-2008, 06:20 PM
Actually, we could actually trade Sage and re-sign Carr as a backup.


*just woke back up from that horrible nightmare, carry on*

I'm going to bed real soon. Thanks for feeding my soon-to-come nightmare!

Hardcore Texan
02-28-2008, 06:20 PM
Do not like.

Do not like this rumor at all.

This league requires two quarterbacks, or one quarterback and a whole heck of a lot of luck. The Texans haven't had their share.

The Texans much earlier in the preseason denied a desire to shop Rosenfels.

We have enough messed up need positions on this team without creating another one.

I agree with this, we are deep at QB and WR, and TE is not bad. Let's not take that away, and rob Peter to pay Sage.

It would be very tempting for a second rounder though.

Honoring Earl 34
02-28-2008, 06:21 PM
Through 2009.

I can see them working ... trying to clear a spot for a recently cut QB .

This was already mentioned ... oops .

I would like to keep Sage for the short term just because Schaub not exactly proven .

ledzeppelin229
02-28-2008, 06:22 PM
Actually, we could actually trade Sage and re-sign Carr as a backup.


*just woke back up from that horrible nightmare, carry on*

That's a disgusting joke with no humor in it whatsoever, regardless of context.

I would probably be sobbing on the floor if Carr ever took another snap for the Texans. Good thing I don't own a gun.

CloakNNNdagger
02-28-2008, 06:24 PM
Do not like.

Do not like this rumor at all.

This league requires two quarterbacks, or one quarterback and a whole heck of a lot of luck. The Texans haven't had their share.

The Texans much earlier in the preseason denied a desire to shop Rosenfels.

We have enough messed up need positions on this team without creating another one.

Diddo, Look what happened to Atlanta when Schaub was no longer there to "backup." For that matter, it seems that most of the cases of what happens when the starter goes down results is a downer rather than an upper. It is the exception that a "jewel" is found that will just "step in" without missing a step with the starter going down. We're fortunate to have this element of security. For those that think we can get someone in to replace Rosenfels with a player offering more "security" (especially this year) even with 2 second round picks, I'd have to say............look how many "experiments" this team has already bet on..............and lost....................One in the hand..................especially if that bird may be the better bird.

TEXANS84
02-28-2008, 06:24 PM
It's true:

Vikings | Team offers third-round pick for Rosenfels
Thu, 28 Feb 2008 16:00:09 -0800

Kevin Seifert, of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, reports the Minnesota Vikings offered the Houston Texans a third-round draft pick for QB Sage Rosenfels, who is under contract.

Errant Hothy
02-28-2008, 06:25 PM
Diddo, Look what happened to Atlanta when Schaub was no longer there to "backup." For that matter, it seems that most of the cases of what happens when the starter goes down results is a downer rather than an upper. It is the exception that a "jewel" is found that will just "step in" without missing a step with the starter going down. We're fortunate to have this element of security. For those that think we can get someone in to replace Rosenfels with a player offering more "security" (especially this year) even with 2 second round picks, I'd have to say............look how many "experiments" this team has already bet on..............and lost....................One in the hand..................

The Atlanta situation was caused by Vick's dog-fighting, not the departure of Schaub.

PapaL
02-28-2008, 06:25 PM
For a 2nd? Bye Sage. Thanks for your service.

Heck he's leaving next year anyways.

TEXANRED
02-28-2008, 06:26 PM
Dell Homie isn't a back-up.

"Need Backup!!!"

I heard Carr became available.

ledzeppelin229
02-28-2008, 06:26 PM
No way we give him up for just a 3rd. Hell we got rid of Drew Henson and drafted Dave Ragone* for 3rd rounders. Anyone that doesn't think Sage is worth more than that is crazy.

* Bad example as it does have Casserly's taint on it.

TEXANRED
02-28-2008, 06:27 PM
For a 2nd? Bye Sage. Thanks for your service.

Heck he's leaving next year anyways.

Isnt that what they said about Schaub?

Honoring Earl 34
02-28-2008, 06:27 PM
What's that RB they have ? The young guy .

Hutch13
02-28-2008, 06:28 PM
What's that RB they have ? The young guy .


Nevermind. Brain fart.

nero THE zero
02-28-2008, 06:29 PM
What's that RB they have ? The young guy .

I know you're talking about Peterson but I wouldn't be opposed to Chester Taylor and a third for Sage.

Errant Hothy
02-28-2008, 06:29 PM
Viking's fans take:
http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=42769.0

Honoring Earl 34
02-28-2008, 06:29 PM
Jerious Norwood

That's Atlanta ... the Oklahoma guy .

bah007
02-28-2008, 06:30 PM
That's Atlanta ... the Oklahoma guy .

Peterson

JCTexan
02-28-2008, 06:31 PM
For a 2nd? Bye Sage. Thanks for your service.

Heck he's leaving next year anyways.

Exactly. I would shop Sage for a second... if no team is willing accept the third from Minnesota.

PapaL
02-28-2008, 06:40 PM
Isnt that what they said about Schaub?

I sure hope Schaub doesn't own any pitbulls.

J-Russ
02-28-2008, 06:48 PM
According to a league source, Minnesota is offering Houston a third-round 2008 draft pick in exchange for backup Sage Rosenfels, who went 4-1 last season in place of injured Texans starter Matt Schaub. Houston, which finished a franchise-best 8-8 last season, is said to be seeking a second-round pick in exchange for Rosenfels, who is not a free agent.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/don_banks/02/28/notebook/index.html

We're willing to trade him...


If we do move him, I suggest bringing Davie back to replace him!! :heh:

CloakNNNdagger
02-28-2008, 06:49 PM
The Atlanta situation was caused by Vick's dog-fighting, not the departure of Schaub.


Vick goes down.........Schaub a memory.........no equally productive substitute..........wish I could'a, would'a

Second Honeymoon
02-28-2008, 06:52 PM
For a 2nd Round pick, you make that deal yesterday. I wouldn't trade Sage for a 3rd Rounder unless Sage is sending signals to the Texans front office that he isn't happy as backup and wants an opportunity and will demand a trade.

I like Sage but I would rather have another 2nd Round pick and bring in some guys to compete for the backup job.

Errant Hothy
02-28-2008, 06:53 PM
Vick goes down.........Schaub a memory.........no equally productive substitute..........wish I could'a, would'a

There is no quarentee that Vick would have gotten hurt last year. The Vick/Schaub trade situation was odd, and one not likely to be repeated in the near future.

Teams that are going to challenge for a division championship need a good veteran back-up QB. Teams that are .500, and finished last in their division need an extra draft pick more then they need a good veteran back-up QB, espically when said team is already missing a 2nd round draft pick.

J-Russ
02-28-2008, 06:53 PM
I think we should trade him. Sage deserves to start. Hes like 28 or 29, hes not getting any younger.

Besides, with the way we been drafting, we can pretty much expects atleast 4 new starters from the draft, and possibly 2 more pro-bowler type players if sage reel in that 2nd.

With that said pull the trigger when the times right Rick! Hold out for that 2nd, if it doesn't come take the 3rd and get another starter!

Wolf
02-28-2008, 06:57 PM
I think Kubiak and his system is what brought the best in Sage..

if I recall, when Sage came here some where kinda "eh" couldn't start in Miami with their horrible Qb's so.. "EH"

at least I was

Sage was very serviceable in Kubiaks system ..makes me think Kubiak can do it again with another Qb (EXCEPT for whom we dare mention his name)

Hardcore Texan
02-28-2008, 06:57 PM
I think we should trade him. Sage deserves to start. Hes like 28 or 29, hes not getting any younger.

Besides, with the way we been drafting, we can pretty much expects atleast 4 new starters from the draft, and possibly 2 more pro-bowler type players if sage reel in that 2nd.

With that said pull the trigger when the times right Rick! Hold out for that 2nd, if it doesn't come take the 3rd and get another starter!

I believe Sage has had a chance to start before.

If this goes through, and I hope it doesn't, I bet Zabransky is brought back for camp and a chance to compete.

Errant Hothy
02-28-2008, 06:57 PM
I believe Sage has had a chance to start before.

If this goes through, and I hope it doesn't, I bet Zabransky is brought back for camp and a chance to compete.

Zabransky signed with the Steelers recently.

TheRealJoker
02-28-2008, 06:58 PM
I could definately see a scenario where we trade Sage and swap picks or something for a 2nd rounder.

Hardcore Texan
02-28-2008, 06:59 PM
Zabransky signed with the Steelers recently.

Really, I did not know that, thanks.

If this does happen, who do you think the Texans would bring in for TC, we would need at least two more QB's to compete for the back up role during camp. McCown? Trent Green?

PapaL
02-28-2008, 07:02 PM
Regardless if this trade goes through or not - we will probably be drafting a low round backup QB to groom as the dependable backup.

Errant Hothy
02-28-2008, 07:04 PM
Regardless if this trade goes through or not - we will probably be drafting a low round backup QB to groom as the dependable backup.

I think Boyd is the guy being groomed to be the back-up, if we trade Sage I could see us signing on of the other FA QBs available to serve as back-up till Boyd is ready.

rmartin65
02-28-2008, 07:05 PM
I would be ok with it, providing we grab a QB in the draft. Josh Johnson would be a good pick in the third. Athletic and has good accuracy.

whiskeyrbl
02-28-2008, 07:06 PM
I know you're talking about Peterson but I wouldn't be opposed to Chester Taylor and a third for Sage.

I would have to seriously consider that trade.

J-Russ
02-28-2008, 07:06 PM
I rather take the third and get Kevin Smith/Ray Rice in the draft.

ATXtexanfan
02-28-2008, 07:08 PM
if they are offering a 3rd now then surely we can get a 2nd or 1st later. there isn't a better qb available in free agency or the draft. i say hold out, worst case scenario is we have 2 qb's this year and do this again next year

Errant Hothy
02-28-2008, 07:09 PM
Minnesota has 2 3rd round picks, just a little FYI.

nero THE zero
02-28-2008, 07:12 PM
Really, I did not know that, thanks.

If this does happen, who do you think the Texans would bring in for TC, we would need at least two more QB's to compete for the back up role during camp. McCown? Trent Green?

You think Jake Plummer needs some money?

Errant Hothy
02-28-2008, 07:13 PM
You think Jake Plummer needs some money?

Brian Greise?

ATXtexanfan
02-28-2008, 07:16 PM
Minnesota has 2 3rd round picks, just a little FYI.

that sounds good, we are in need of bodies

b0ng
02-28-2008, 07:17 PM
Brian Greise?

Trent Green?

Honestly, I don't think we move Sage unless it's something that we are sorely missing that we get in return (2nd round draft pick).

This could also end up being a draft day trade.

As an aside: Hi fans from purplepride! :heart:

mattschaub#8
02-28-2008, 07:18 PM
who here worrys about an davad carr aka matt schaub geting hurt agin who will we turn to ?

Maddict5
02-28-2008, 07:19 PM
i love sage but all things considered, we should do this:

i believe sage has talent but i think kubes brought the best out of him (as he did with DC- sage>>>>>>>>>>>dc btw just for clarification) but you get my point

kubiak has often said sage wants to be a starter and with him becoming a FA next year.....

Sideline
02-28-2008, 07:22 PM
Put me in the don't trade Sage camp also. Too valuable to have a guy come in off the bench and not lose a beat.

And me, being the most important position of the field, you need as many good ones as possible, I can't remember a season such as last year when there were so many different starters at QB around the league. Although I don't agree with him starting I don't skip a heartbeat when he goes under center for us. A definite keeper.

Hardcore Texan
02-28-2008, 07:22 PM
Trent Green?

Honestly, I don't think we move Sage unless it's something that we are sorely missing that we get in return (2nd round draft pick).

This could also end up being a draft day trade.

As an aside: Hi fans from purplepride! :heart:

Just throwing out names in case we deal or back up who would we bring in to compete for a BACKUP spot. I don't want us to trade Sage, but if we do I hope it is for a 2nd. Even if we draft a late round rookie, we are going to need more camp bodies. And could we keep a rookie in a roster spot to back up Schaub. Clearly we need someone who can step in just in case Schaub gets banged up again.

Chris Simms? Anyone know if he has fully recovered from the spleen removal. He showed some real guts before getting injured and seemed to be doing pretty decent for a very young QB.

J-Russ
02-28-2008, 07:23 PM
VIKINGS WANT TO PUT SPICE IN THEIR OFFENSE

With a quarterback who struggled at times in his first full year as a starter, the Vikings could be looking to bring in a little competition.

Or a lot.

Per Don Banks of SI.com, the Vikes are interested in Texans backup quarterback Sage Rosenfels. Rosenfels generated a passer rating of 84.8 last season, appearing in nine games. He was 4-1 and a starter.

Tarvaris Jackson was 8-4 as the starter in Minnesota last season. His passer rating of 70.8 barely put him on the right side of our patented Kordoza line.

Banks says that the Vikes have offered a third-round selection for Rosenfels. The Texans want a second-round pick.

Regardless of whether the deal goes down for a two or a three or not at all, the message to Jackson is clear -- one way or another, there will be competition for the starting job in 2008.

http://profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Another source. Pretty much solidify the rumor.

Overalls
02-28-2008, 07:25 PM
I like Sage and think he was very important to the teams success last season. I would say no to a third and be torn if they offered more than that. I don't think that he is the kind of guy that would out right demand a trade but I also think that Kubes has enough class as a former QB himself to realize that he would be doing both the team and Sage a favor with a trade. If this or another trade goes down for Sage it would leave me concerned about our back up QB going into the season. I don't like the idea of a retread or a 3rd round rookie being our back up. I also don't think that the pick we would gain in a trade would be best spent on a QB. Don't get me wrong I like the idea of picking up another pick, especially if it is a 2nd, I just think we have bigger holes in the draft than back up QB.

I will live with whatever happens and I trust RS and GK.

Maddict5
02-28-2008, 07:27 PM
for vikes fans... god what a moment that was!

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv/index.asp?mm_file_id=1833

Nighthawk
02-28-2008, 07:30 PM
Never. Schaub is the only one pushing for this deal.

CloakNNNdagger
02-28-2008, 07:30 PM
I believe Sage has had a chance to start before.

If this goes through, and I hope it doesn't, I bet Zabransky is brought back for camp and a chance to compete.


Rosenfel's only chance for starter was with the Fins who ran the Marino offense (hard act to follow to begin with) without all the pieces, and unlike Marino, was not allowed to call any plays..........a far removed situation from the Texans. I think he only ended up starting 2 games and being allowed to throw less than 50 times in all.

Even old discarded veterans thought to be ineffective any more can find their niche in the right venue. (http://nation.bodoglife.com/sports-betting-news/the-old-in-the-tooth-movement.html)

Errant Hothy
02-28-2008, 07:31 PM
Does this thread prove the theory that the back up QB is always the most popular guy in town?

Hardcore Texan
02-28-2008, 07:33 PM
for vikes fans... god what a moment that was!

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv/index.asp?mm_file_id=1833

Oh, what a play. I was at that game and in that endzone section in the corner. My wife and I were some of the ones that stayed until the end. I was in shock when Bironas made the FG for the win.

Hardcore Texan
02-28-2008, 07:36 PM
Rosenfel's only chance for starter was with the Fins who ran the Marino offense (hard act to follow to begin with) without all the pieces, and unlike Marino, was not allowed to call any plays..........a far removed situation from the Texans. I think he only ended up starting 2 games and being allowed to throw less than 50 times in all.

Even old discarded veterans thought to be ineffective any more can find their niche in the right venue. (http://nation.bodoglife.com/sports-betting-news/the-old-in-the-tooth-movement.html)

I agree, he really fits in well here and Kube's system. I thougth was the Fins were he played, not really a fighting chance it sounds like.

mattschaub#8
02-28-2008, 07:48 PM
:wild: :wild: :wild: every1 think back to 2 years ago.................... david carr......

matt schaub was hurt for more then half the year we relly dont no how hes guna do......

so i say keep sageeeeeeeeeeeeeee for the sake of humaty:wild: :wild: :wild:

Maddict5
02-28-2008, 08:00 PM
sage getting a big thumbs down in norseland so far....

somebody needs to post the link there

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv/index.asp?mm_file_id=1833

do it.. dooooooo it

michaelm
02-28-2008, 08:00 PM
If the Texans could sign Kelly Holcomb or Todd Collins, then would you be OK with trading Sage for a third? These are two guys who have proven to be decent back ups... as a matter of fact, Holcomb is maybe THE consomate NFL back up... I'm pretty sure both are UFA, but haven't checked yet.

Is Holcomb+3rd Rounder > Sage?
or
Is Collins+3rd Rounder > Sage?

Thoughts?

Errant Hothy
02-28-2008, 08:03 PM
If the Texans could sign Kelly Holcomb or Todd Collins, then would you be OK with trading Sage for a third? These are two guys who have proven to be decent back ups... as a matter of fact, Holcomb is maybe THE consomate NFL back up... I'm pretty sure both are UFA, but haven't checked yet.

Is Holcomb+3rd Rounder > Sage? YES
or
Is Collins+3rd Rounder > Sage? And, YES

Thoughts?

This team isn't good enough yet to be worried about having a top-flight back-up.

steelbtexan
02-28-2008, 08:04 PM
I would trade Sage & a 4th for a 2nd & Chester Taylor.

RD1 DRC
RD2 Nicks
RD3 Godfrey
RD5 Moffett
RD6 Zuttah
RD7 Silva

FA McCray, Traylor,Hadnot, Landon Johnson

dalemurphy
02-28-2008, 08:12 PM
I would trade Sage & a 4th for a 2nd & Chester Taylor.

RD1 DRC
RD2 Nicks
RD3 Godfrey
RD5 Moffett
RD6 Zuttah
RD7 Silva

FA McCray, Traylor,Hadnot, Landon Johnson



I don't understand where we put Chester Taylor. If we keep three backs: AGreen, Chris Taylor, and ???...

If Green's healthy, I prefer him to Chester. Whether Green's healthy or not, Chris Taylor is going to demand carries. With Chester Taylor, how do the carries get divided up? Either we get someone on the cheap as insurance, we get a stud (Turner), or we address it in the draft. That's what I think anyway.

nero THE zero
02-28-2008, 08:17 PM
I don't understand where we put Chester Taylor. If we keep three backs: AGreen, Chris Taylor, and ???...

If Green's healthy, I prefer him to Chester. Whether Green's healthy or not, Chris Taylor is going to demand carries. With Chester Taylor, how do the carries get divided up? Either we get someone on the cheap as insurance, we get a stud (Turner), or we address it in the draft. That's what I think anyway.

I don't really see how that is a concern. If you have Ron Dayne and an UDFA ending the season at starting RB two season in a row you acquire as many starting quality backs as you can and sort them out in camp.

CloakNNNdagger
02-28-2008, 08:20 PM
After last season, from all signs to date, Kubiak does not seem to be sure if, with this offer, the Texans may be contemplating trading away their backup or their starter quarterback. Like it or not, there IS a quarterback controvery in Houston.

b0ng
02-28-2008, 08:20 PM
Just throwing out names in case we deal or back up who would we bring in to compete for a BACKUP spot. I don't want us to trade Sage, but if we do I hope it is for a 2nd. Even if we draft a late round rookie, we are going to need more camp bodies. And could we keep a rookie in a roster spot to back up Schaub. Clearly we need someone who can step in just in case Schaub gets banged up again.

Chris Simms? Anyone know if he has fully recovered from the spleen removal. He showed some real guts before getting injured and seemed to be doing pretty decent for a very young QB.

I'd say Todd Collins, or that other guy would be okay backups. Hell, even Billy Volek is an UFA this year. I don't know if I like the idea of trading Sage, but a coveted 2nd rounder (And beleive me, Kubiak has shown that he can make a decent 2nd round pick), oh god so torn :cry:

I don't think Chris Simms would really be worth the look. He's never fully recovered from having his spleen exploded.

Mike Kerns
02-28-2008, 08:21 PM
Who knows, Rosenfels might be pushing for this opportunity?

Id imagine so. Im sure he would like to start. And to have a weapon like AP behind you? Id say he is certainly interested.

kiwitexansfan
02-28-2008, 08:21 PM
Two thirds or a second gets it done in my mind.....

Our commitment is to build through the draft to do that we need the picks.

dalemurphy
02-28-2008, 08:21 PM
I don't really see how that is a concern. If you have Ron Dayne and an UDFA ending the season at starting RB two season in a row you acquire as many starting quality backs as you can and sort them out in camp.

Sure, but you can't get guys with big salaries if you're going to do that. I think Chester carries some pretty big salary numbers with him- though, we wouldn't be responsible for his signing bonus.

I just think that getting a draft pick makes more sense. We can start camp with AGreen, Chris Taylor, Darius Walker and a draft pick... perhaps getting a guy cheap like Derrick Ward makes some sense. However, reality is that we will only keep 3 RBs on the active roster. So, who gets cut?

J-Russ
02-28-2008, 08:26 PM
You guys sure are overrating him. two-thirds? Chester Taylor and 3rd? For Sage?

Seriously guys. The Vikings are going over the edge with the 3rd more so a 2nd. Sage isn't worth more then a 4th IMO, the Vikings are just desperate.

We should take the offer before the chronic wears off their FO.

Errant Hothy
02-28-2008, 08:26 PM
Well that didn't last long.
http://ww3.startribune.com/vikingsblog/?p=1368

Word out of Houston is the Vikings and Texans have ended talks regarding a trade that would have landed quarterback Sage Rosenfels in purple for a third-round pick. It sounds as if the Vikings have spent much of the day exploring the possibility of adding a quarterback through a trade instead of signing one in free agency.

The Vikings are now going to go after JP Lossman.

Missed oppurtunity in my mind.

Polo
02-28-2008, 08:28 PM
I would lol @ a 3rd rounder. Minimum offer, IMO, would have to be a 2nd and a 5th.

I wouldn't even let him go for just a 2nd. Not now.

J-Russ
02-28-2008, 08:28 PM
We got greedy....

I still think theres a chance, cept the Viking won't budge for more then a 3rd. We just need to lower our high standards.

Polo
02-28-2008, 08:28 PM
But Vikes fans....








There's always David Carr.

J-Russ
02-28-2008, 08:29 PM
I would lol @ a 3rd rounder. Minimum offer, IMO, would have to be a 2nd and a 5th.

I wouldn't even let him go for just a 2nd. Not now.

for example.....

Polo
02-28-2008, 08:31 PM
for example.....

You call it greedy.

I call it smart.

To each his own.

Maddict5
02-28-2008, 08:31 PM
After last season, from all signs to date, Kubiak does not seem to be sure if, with this offer, the Texans may be contemplating trading away their backup or their starter quarterback. Like it or not, there IS a quarterback controvery in Houston.


riiiiiiiight.. except those little tell-tale signs of them saying 'matt is our starting qb' or kubiak saying at the end of last year 'sage can/wants (not sure which) be a starter somewhere in this league'= not a ringing endorsement

Polo
02-28-2008, 08:33 PM
There is no QB controversy, but if Matt sucks and Sage doesn't, Sage will start.

The same goes for everyone else.

Fox
02-28-2008, 08:35 PM
Last season Sage was at least as valuable to us as Schaub was, and we don't have enough evidence on Schaub yet to tell if that trend will continue (durability?). I wouldn't even contemplate trading Rosenfels for less than a 2nd, with the caveat that I'd have to have a good alternative available before I'd trade him period.

hollywood_texan
02-28-2008, 08:37 PM
Sage for a 3rd rounder, you definitely have to consider it.

I understand the run on QBs and injuries. But to make a playoff run, you generally need a QB to play the entire year. Your kind of sunk anyway if your starting QB goes down. I understand the insurance policy concept and the run on QBs, but it's too steep of a premium considering where the Texans are in personnel. Certain insurance policies are needed all the time or are just over insurance.

Which brings me to my next point. It is still a stretch for the Texans to make the playoffs next year at this time. They need impact starters at multiple positions. If they trade Rosenfels for a 3rd round pick and they have a couple players they have scouted that could start immediately and make an impact, you really have to consider this deal if it's out there.

Keeping 2 QBs and not have a 2nd round pick for two years is tough to swallow and make the playoffs in 2008 give the state of affairs of the Texans. Which is the reason why I was very skeptical of Schaub deal from the beginning. Good QB prospect, but the timing just wasn't right. Too much risk and bad timing.

What I am saying is, you have to be at the right place, at the right time, to make big things happen.

Texans need impact players, having one of those guys riding the pine because they both can't start at the same time, doesn't seem prudent if you can get value from one of them in a starting player that plays immediately with impact.

You have to consider the trade...

Errant Hothy
02-28-2008, 08:37 PM
So after next year, when we don't make the playoffs again, and Sage leaves via Free Agency, I think that we will all miss what could have been another starter somewhere else on the team.

Maddict5
02-28-2008, 08:45 PM
So after next year, when we don't make the playoffs again, and Sage leaves via Free Agency, I think that we will all miss what could have been another starter somewhere else on the team.

thats the spirit :fans:

wake me up in 12 months

Errant Hothy
02-28-2008, 08:48 PM
thats the spirit :fans:

wake me up in 12 months

Just being realilistic.

We are in the toughest division in the NFL, we went 1-5 in our division last year, and the teams are the top of the AFC South (Indy and Jax) are not likely to fall off that much.

Even if we do make the playoffs next year, Sage is still likely to leave, and we will still be missing what could have been a possible starter at another position.

NitroGSXR
02-28-2008, 08:51 PM
As per rotoworld, trade talks have fallen through. The Vikings will not budge from their third round offer.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/Headlines.aspx?sport=NFL&hl=113279

I guess I'm happy.

Maddict5
02-28-2008, 08:51 PM
Just being realilistic.

We are in the toughest division in the NFL, we went 1-7 in our division last year, and the teams are the top of the AFC South (Indy and Jax) are not likely to fall off that much.

Even if we do make the playoffs next year, Sage is still likely to leave, and we will still be missing what could have been a possible starter at another position.

or matt could get injured again and sage carries us into the playoffs.... or we trade sage and the 3rd rder is a bust

if its and buts....

b0ng
02-28-2008, 08:52 PM
Just being realilistic.

We are in the toughest division in the NFL, we went 1-7 in our division last year, and the teams are the top of the AFC South (Indy and Jax) are not likely to fall off that much.

Even if we do make the playoffs next year, Sage is still likely to leave, and we will still be missing what could have been a possible starter at another position.

The AFC South isn't the toughest division in 2008 because no games have been played. Also, we went 1-5, and you never know who will fall off that much.

Sage can't leave until after the 2009 season, so you probably don't have to worry about it anyway broheezy.

Errant Hothy
02-28-2008, 08:56 PM
or matt could get injured again and sage carries us into the playoffs.... or we trade sage and the 3rd rder is a bust

if its and buts....

Matt got injured this year and did Sage carry us anwhere?

Guys, this is just an opinion debate. I would value the 10th pick in the 3rd round more then a back-up QB. Espically if I was a fan of a young team.

Now if we had made the playoffs last year and were not only looking to get back but challenge for a title, Sage would certainly be worth more then the draft pick. But that is not the case.

hollywood_texan
02-28-2008, 08:56 PM
So after next year, when we don't make the playoffs again, and Sage leaves via Free Agency, I think that we will all miss what could have been another starter somewhere else on the team.

Execellent point, players are gonna move around, you can't keep them forever if some one wants them.

Besides, look at the teams that are compete for the playoffs every year. They don't have a quality back ups to rely upon. This whole concept seems to be a false sense of security because it really doesn't help to make the playoffs when you look at the odds.

It's nice to have 2 starter QBs, but just enjoy it while it lasts and be prepared to move on if you can get good value. Isn't that how we ended up with Schuab in the first place?

TEXANS84
02-28-2008, 08:58 PM
As per rotoworld, trade talks have fallen through. The Vikings will not budge from their third round offer.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/Headlines.aspx?sport=NFL&hl=113279

I guess I'm happy.

Houston Titans???? AHHHH!!

Joe Texan
02-28-2008, 08:58 PM
Absolutely NOT

Sage is a Texan and a Great Back up who should be starting. We should have left Schaub with the dirty birds but now we have two great QB's. Mrs. Schaub gets hit in the pinky and we need Sage more than any pick so NO WAY.

I sure am glad all you Boneheads who say do the deal are just that, Boneheads

Hardcore Texan
02-28-2008, 08:59 PM
Sage for a 3rd rounder, you definitely have to consider it.

I understand the run on QBs and injuries. But to make a playoff run, you generally need a QB to play the entire year. Your kind of sunk anyway if your starting QB goes down. I understand the insurance policy concept and the run on QBs, but it's too steep of a premium considering where the Texans are in personnel. Certain insurance policies are needed all the time or are just over insurance.

Which brings me to my next point. It is still a stretch for the Texans to make the playoffs next year at this time. They need impact starters at multiple positions. If they trade Rosenfels for a 3rd round pick and they have a couple players they have scouted that could start immediately and make an impact, you really have to consider this deal if it's out there.

Keeping 2 QBs and not have a 2nd round pick for two years is tough to swallow and make the playoffs in 2008 give the state of affairs of the Texans. Which is the reason why I was very skeptical of Schaub deal from the beginning. Good QB prospect, but the timing just wasn't right. Too much risk and bad timing.

What I am saying is, you have to be at the right place, at the right time, to make big things happen.

Texans need impact players, having one of those guys riding the pine because they both can't start at the same time, doesn't seem prudent if you can get value from one of them in a starting player that plays immediately with impact.

You have to consider the trade...

I hear you and we do have to consider it and we need more impact players, but Sage proved his worth last year, if we let him go we still have another hole to fill. Like I said robbing Peter to pay Sage.

I would rather keep Sage (for the third round offer) and address existing needs.

As far as the Texans not making the playoffs next year, I totally disagree. The Giants went 8-8 and then won the superbowl, why shouldnt we expect playoffs. We should always expect playoffs. And the Steelers went on a tear a couple of years back in the AFC and won the SB.

I agree about good timing to make big things happen, but I am not ready to say the Schaub deal was any of that. I think he flash some potential, he struggled some his first year starting and got banged up along the way. I think he will have a much better year and get hit a lot less often with an effective running game orchestrated by Gibb's ZBS.

Errant Hothy
02-28-2008, 08:59 PM
Absolutely NOT

Sage is a Texan and a Great Back up who should be starting. We should have left Schaub with the dirty birds but now we have two great QB's. Mrs. Schaub gets hit in the pinky and we need Sage more than any pick so NO WAY.

I sure am glad all you Boneheads who say do the deal are just that, Boneheads

I'm sure that all you guys who say you're 45 sure act like it...oh...wait...nevermid.

b0ng
02-28-2008, 09:00 PM
It's nice to have 2 starter QBs, but just enjoy it while it lasts and be prepared to move on if you can get good value. Isn't that how we ended up with Schuab in the first place?

It is, but Sage still has 2, count 'em 2, seasons left on his contract buddies. So he could still stay here, start a few more times at the end of the season, get some more value (Cause he seriously shot himself in the foot that last game vs Jacksonville, he was pretty bad), and then we could get picks for him.

The point is, he's not leaving after next season as a UFA, because he's still under contract at that point.

Polo
02-28-2008, 09:03 PM
Gary Kubiak and Rick Smith don't have the luxury to wait for next year. Of course they need to keep their expectations tempered, but at the same time each and every year their goal needs to--and should be-- to win as many games as possible.

I see your Sage leaving after next year scenario and raise you this one:

Lets suppose Schaub gets hurt, we have no capable back-up and as a result we go something stupid like 5-11 or even worse, the rest of the team is playing on a play-off level and we come up short of the post seson because of our back up QB.

Nobody's happy about that, Not me, not Bob McNair, nor any other fan of the Houston Texans. Not even a hypothetical third rd. starter would be able to make that nasty taste go away.

But enough of the rambling...My point is that even with tempered expectations you need to give your team it's best chance to win as many games as possible year in and year out.

I could very easily see a scenario where Schaub gets hurt and Sage is still able to have us in the play-off hunt vs. not having Sage, Schaub getting hurt and the losses start to pile up only further making it harder to shake the stigma of being a loser exspansion team.

I'm comfortable with the decison to make our team as good as it can be next year and not make decisons based on what may or may not happen two seasons from now. We may not be "superbowl contenders" in reality, but don't underestimate the effect WINNING has on a teams psyche.

That's all.

dalemurphy
02-28-2008, 09:05 PM
It is, but Sage still has 2, count 'em 2, seasons left on his contract buddies. So he could still stay here, start a few more times at the end of the season, get some more value (Cause he seriously shot himself in the foot that last game vs Jacksonville, he was pretty bad), and then we could get picks for him.

The point is, he's not leaving after next season as a UFA, because he's still under contract at that point.


Also, Sage's contract is up the same year that we have a decision on whether or not to extend Schaub for 3 years. It makes sense to hold on to him until that time... Also, if he leaves us via free agency we will likely get some decent compensation via compensatory draft picks.

hollywood_texan
02-28-2008, 09:06 PM
It is, but Sage still has 2, count 'em 2, seasons left on his contract buddies. So he could still stay here, start a few more times at the end of the season, get some more value (Cause he seriously shot himself in the foot that last game vs Jacksonville, he was pretty bad), and then we could get picks for him.

The point is, he's not leaving after next season as a UFA, because he's still under contract at that point.

Yeah, and his trade value is higher because it's less risk for a team that acquires him because they have two years to evaluate his progress at a cheap price.

Besides, Schaub could go down again, Sage bombs and then there is no value.

Making the right decision at the right time is how you succeed.

I am not saying to do the Sage trade, but you have to seriously consider it to fill a need at another position with an immediate impact player.

Having both Sage and Schaub together doesn't make us the Texans a playoff team considering the current roster and draft picks available because they play in the AFC South.

hollywood_texan
02-28-2008, 09:08 PM
As far as the Texans not making the playoffs next year, I totally disagree. The Giants went 8-8 and then won the superbowl, why shouldnt we expect playoffs. We should always expect playoffs. And the Steelers went on a tear a couple of years back in the AFC and won the SB.


I disagree with comparing the Texans roster/situation with the Giants and Steelers that won recent Super Bowls.

I hope I am wrong, but I just don't see it.

Polo
02-28-2008, 09:08 PM
I am not saying to do the Sage trade, but you have to seriously consider it to fill a need at another position with an immediate impact player.

How do you know we aren't trading away a good back-up QB for a third rd. bust, or a Bennie Jopru who can't stay healthy ?

We pretty much know what we have in Sage...

Why assume that this hypothetical 3rd rounder is "an immediate impact player" ?

J-Russ
02-28-2008, 09:10 PM
Absolutely NOT

Sage is a Texan and a Great Back up who should be starting. We should have left Schaub with the dirty birds but now we have two great QB's. Mrs. Schaub gets hit in the pinky and we need Sage more than any pick so NO WAY.

I sure am glad all you Boneheads who say do the deal are just that, Boneheads

You think Sage, and Kubiak doesn't know that?

He going to leave us cause he wants a starting job. Because hes capable of starting, he knows it, we know it, and he going to leave us when he becomes a FA.

Boneheads? A boneheaded move is not getting anything from him before it happens. Guess what Sage isn't going to start if Schaub is healthy, NEVER. Kubiak hand-picked Schaub, and that's his QB.

Even though Sage isn't going to say anything about it, you know he wants to start. This is the NFL, who in the league doesn't want to start? Look at it from his POV.

Btw, you sound like a Schaub hater, and a ROF (Rosenfels only fan(sorry been on clutchfans alot lately)).

hollywood_texan
02-28-2008, 09:11 PM
How do you know we aren't trading away a good back-up QB for a third rd. bust, or a Bennie Jopru who can't stay healthy ?

We pretty much know what we have in Sage...

Why assume that this hypothetical 3rd rounder is "an immediate impact player" ?

The reason you have a scouting department is to find those impact players in the later rounds at great value.

Any player can hurt at any time in the NFL, unless it is Brett Favre...

Silver Oak
02-28-2008, 09:11 PM
Absolutely NOT

Mrs. Schaub gets hit in the pinky and we need Sage more than any pick so NO WAY.



That's pretty harsh don't you think?

Schaub took two hits last season that any qb in the league would have been injured from. To imply that he is injury prone is unfair.

I know one thing for sure...if I had taken the hit under the helmet in SD like he did, I would still be in a coma or perhaps just recalling my name and address.

Polo
02-28-2008, 09:13 PM
The reason you have a scouting department is to find those impact players in the later rounds at great value.

Any player can hurt at any time in the NFL, unless it is Brett Favre...

That didn't really answer my question.

Seems like a lot of people are subsribing to the "the grass is always greener on the other side" logic.

Nothing wrong with that, cuz sometimes....it is actally greener...

Still not guaranteed tho'...

But besides that:

Gary Kubiak and Rick Smith don't have the luxury to wait for next year. Of course they need to keep their expectations tempered, but at the same time each and every year their goal needs to--and should be-- to win as many games as possible.

I see your Sage leaving after next year scenario and raise you this one:

Lets suppose Schaub gets hurt, we have no capable back-up and as a result we go something stupid like 5-11 or even worse, the rest of the team is playing on a play-off level and we come up short of the post seson because of our back up QB.

Nobody's happy about that, Not me, not Bob McNair, nor any other fan of the Houston Texans. Not even a hypothetical third rd. starter would be able to make that nasty taste go away.

But enough of the rambling...My point is that even with tempered expectations you need to give your team it's best chance to win as many games as possible year in and year out. I'm thinking Sage gives us a better chance to do that than a possible 3rd rd. starter...key word being possible...

I could very easily see a scenario where Schaub gets hurt and Sage is still able to have us in the play-off hunt vs. not having Sage, Schaub getting hurt and the losses start to pile up only further making it harder to shake the stigma of being a loser exspansion team.

I'm comfortable with the decison to make our team as good as it can be next year and not make decisons based on what may or may not happen two seasons from now. We may not be "superbowl contenders" in reality, but don't underestimate the effect WINNING has on a teams psyche.

That's all.

Texans Horror
02-28-2008, 09:15 PM
I sleep better at night knowing that Sage and Ron will be there to take the hits late in the season once Matt and Ahman get injured.

At the same time, those tackles the Texans took makes me think there could be a lot gained from that extra third round/second round pick...

Guess I'll have to sleep on it.:sleep:

Insideop
02-28-2008, 09:16 PM
Houston Titans???? AHHHH!!

I quess we're just going to have to win a few Superbowls before these idiots can get our team's name correct and we get some respect!:bat:

b0ng
02-28-2008, 09:17 PM
Yeah, and his trade value is higher because it's less risk for a team that acquires him because they have two years to evaluate his progress at a cheap price.

Besides, Schaub could go down again, Sage bombs and then there is no value.

Making the right decision at the right time is how you succeed.

I am not saying to do the Sage trade, but you have to seriously consider it to fill a need at another position with an immediate impact player.

Having both Sage and Schaub together doesn't make us the Texans a playoff team considering the current roster and draft picks available because they play in the AFC South.

The guy could set the league on fire for two games and warrant a team giving us a 1st rounder next year, so then what?

I don't get how people on this forum know that because Sage and Schaub are on the roster we aren't going to the playoffs. Where do you guys come up with this stuff?

Also 3rd rounders are not drafted to be immediate "impact" players. If they become one that's great, but if you're in the 3rd round looking for that "guy" that will take you over the top, then you are Matt Millen.

dtran04
02-28-2008, 09:20 PM
Would I trade Sage for last year's 3rd round pick Jacoby? Nope.

hollywood_texan
02-28-2008, 09:21 PM
That didn't really answer my question.



It really did answer your question.

Look at the teams that win and get deep in the playoffs.

They draft well, and they draft impact starters in the later rounds.

Giants are a perfect example of that.

Carr Bombed
02-28-2008, 09:22 PM
Would I trade Sage for last year's 3rd round pick Jacoby? Nope.

How about the year before's third round pick. Eric Winston? or that year's 4th round pick Owen Daniels? or even last year's 4th round pick Fred Bennett? Yep.

I think our FO has shown they can find gems in the mid rounds.

Polo
02-28-2008, 09:24 PM
It really did answer your question.

Look at the teams that win and get deep in the playoffs.

They draft well, and they draft impact starters in the later rounds.

Giants are a perfect example of that.

Why assume that this hypothetical 3rd rounder is "an immediate impact player" ?

That was my question.

I still haven't gotten a good reason besides it's the scouting departments job. Good picks in later rds. make teams good.

mmmmmk.....:ok:

Does that really answer the question ?

hollywood_texan
02-28-2008, 09:24 PM
The guy could set the league on fire for two games and warrant a team giving us a 1st rounder next year, so then what?

I don't get how people on this forum know that because Sage and Schaub are on the roster we aren't going to the playoffs. Where do you guys come up with this stuff?

Also 3rd rounders are not drafted to be immediate "impact" players. If they become one that's great, but if you're in the 3rd round looking for that "guy" that will take you over the top, then you are Matt Millen.

I hear ya, but knowing when to get and get out is what makes a successful person.

It's the old business concept of buy low, sell high.

Look, at the teams that win consistently and the Super Bowl winners. They don't carry 2 starting QBs on their roster.

It's nice thing to have and you work to get it. But, it isn't going to last forever. Enjoy it while you have it and move on to get value.

J-Russ
02-28-2008, 09:26 PM
Texan's 3rd round picks:

06' - Charles Spencer & Eric Winston

07' - Jacoby Jones

What do they have in common, they were/is stars in the making, for JJ and CS before injury. Solid starters with high ceilings.

Sage? Well, you're looking at his best right now, a BACK-UP. I honestly think if he goes somewhere else, he'll return to his Pre-Texans form, which was a nobody.

I'll take that 3rd for him. In fact I bet Vikings still want this guy. They're just bluffing, to try and get Texans to lower their asking price.

Or maybe I'm delusional, who knows.

hollywood_texan
02-28-2008, 09:27 PM
Why assume that this hypothetical 3rd rounder is "an immediate impact player" ?

That was my question.

I still haven't gotten a good reason besides it's the scouting departments job. Good picks in later rds. make teams good.

mmmmmk.....:ok:

Does that really answer the question ?

I don't know how else to put this.

Look at any Super Bowl winner and comb through their roster. See how they acquired some key players. Most of those key players come from drafting, and drafting in the later rounds.

If an NFL team cannot draft in the later rounds, they are going to have serious problems competing. Example, the Texans...

There is a 53 man roster and 22 starters on offense and defense.

Polo
02-28-2008, 09:29 PM
Texan's 3rd round picks:

06' - Charles Spencer & Eric Winston

07' - Jacoby Jones



You realize that only one of those players has seen significant action, and I think Winston's value vs. Sage's value is very much debatable.

The other two are pretty much balls of potential. Spencer is barely that. He's a hope and a prayer.

I don't get how that helps your case.

ArlingtonTexan
02-28-2008, 09:31 PM
I hear ya, but knowing when to get and get out is what makes a successful person.

It's the old business concept of buy low, sell high.

Look, at the teams that win consistently and the Super Bowl winners. They don't carry 2 starting QBs on their roster.

It's nice thing to have and you work to get it. But, it isn't going to last forever. Enjoy it while you have it and move on to get value.

I would argue that Sage for a 3rd rounder is selling fair versus selling high.

Polo
02-28-2008, 09:32 PM
I don't know how else to put this.

Look at any Super Bowl winner and comb through their roster. See how they acquired some key players. Most of those key players come from drafting, and drafting in the later rounds.

If an NFL team cannot draft in the later rounds, they are going to have serious problems competing. Example, the Texans...

There is a 53 man roster and 22 starters on offense and defense.

So you knew the Gianst were legit Super Bowl contenders all along ? Because of the late rd. talent they had drafted?

I'm pretty sure you just knew the Pats would fall short because of stockpiling on WR's via free agency instead of through the draft.

riiiight.

I'm glad you simplified the game of football down to such an exact science. Draft late, trade high. Someone get on the phone with Texan management and coaching staff pronto!!!

I don't get these set rules when it comes to football. I think every situation needs to be evaluated by it self.

J-Russ
02-28-2008, 09:33 PM
You realize that only one of those players has seen significant action, and I think Winston's value vs. Sage's value is very much debatable.

The other two are pretty much balls of potential.

I don't get how that helps your case.

What do they have in common, they were/is stars in the making, for JJ and CS before injury. Solid starters with high ceilings.

He was one of 4 starting rookies, how did the other rookies turned out? Well, you already know the answer to that. and he was going down that road too. He had a very high ceiling, and very highly thought off by Kubs & Sherman.

J-Russ
02-28-2008, 09:35 PM
nm.

Polo
02-28-2008, 09:40 PM
What do they have in common, they were/is stars in the making, for JJ and CS before injury. Solid starters with high ceilings.

He was one of 4 starting rookies, how did the other rookies turned out? Well, you already know the answer to that. and he was going down that road too. He had a very high ceiling, and very highly thought off by Kubs & Sherman.

One of four starting rookies on a team filled with sub-par talent.

What-an-accomplishment./sarcasm In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.


Getting too far off course. Those guys haven't proven to be more valuable than Sage.

A possible third rounder may or may not be more help than Sage. We know we have a guy that can win us games at the QB position. That's a pretty valuable asset to trade away based on what we may or may not get in return from a third rounder. I have faith in the Texans' scouting dept. too, but unless it's headed by Jesus Christ himslelf I'm not gonna assume that everything they lay their hands on is guranteed to be a sure fire success.

GP
02-28-2008, 09:45 PM
My, my, my...

So many "We need him" posts. "Don't do anything for less than a 2nd rounder!!!!" You guys would have sold him for a 5th before this past season.

Why so many posters so cautious about this deal? Because you know Schaub is always one hit away from looking like a pile of fallen Jenga blocks. Again.

Sage looked great. Schaub looked great...on the bench, shaking the cobwebs off and wearing a cap. Forget the stats. Sage was on his feet, smiling and waving at the fans after wins. Schaub was hobbling and unable to continue. But I know, I know...spare me the hate mail...Schaub was hit "worse" and in just the right spots to be seriously hurt. And I'm a turrd for saying so. I got it.

(Man, it feels good to post on this topic again)

GlassHalfFull
02-28-2008, 09:46 PM
My, my, my...

So many "We need him" posts. "Don't do anything for less than a 2nd rounder!!!!" You guys would have sold him for a 5th before this past season.

Why so many posters so cautious about this deal? Because you know Schaub is always one hit away from looking like a pile of fallen Jenga blocks. Again.

Sage looked great. Schaub looked great...on the bench, shaking the cobwebs off and wearing a cap. Forget the stats. Sage was on his feet, smiling and waving at the fans after wins. Schaub was hobbling and unable to continue. But I know, I know...spare me the hate mail...Schaub was hit "worse" and in just the right spots to be seriously hurt. And I'm a turrd for saying so. I got it.

(Man, it feels good to post on this topic again)

There is a reason you are in the witness protection program.:aggressive:

hollywood_texan
02-28-2008, 09:54 PM
So you knew the Gianst were legit Super Bowl contenders all along ? Because of the late rd. talent they had drafted?

I'm pretty sure you just knew the Pats would fall short because of stockpiling on WR's via free agency instead of through the draft.

riiiight.

I'm glad you simplified the game of football down to such an exact science. Draft late, trade high. Someone get on the phone with Texan management and coaching staff pronto!!!

I don't get these set rules when it comes to football. I think every situation needs to be evaluated by it self.

Your are totally missing the point.

When you look at the Giants roster that played in the Super Bowl, you will see that their later round draft picks over the past several year made serious impacts in that game. The Giants GM looks like a genius now.

Keeping Sage or trading Sage isn't going to make the Texans a playoff team. Hopefully we can agree on that.

How the Texans draft in the later rounds make the team. It's the same for every team in the NFL.

If the biggest roster decision for the Texans is keeping or trading Sage, that means the roster has some serious holes.

CloakNNNdagger
02-28-2008, 09:59 PM
riiiiiiiight.. except those little tell-tale signs of them saying 'matt is our starting qb' or kubiak saying at the end of last year 'sage can/wants (not sure which) be a starter somewhere in this league'= not a ringing endorsement

Chronicle Feb 23 (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5563985.html)
Despite the difference in pay, [Rick] Smith said the team won't hesitate to start Rosenfels if he outplays Schaub this season.

Hervoyel
02-28-2008, 10:00 PM
For a 2nd round pick I make this deal. It's admittedly a leap of faith but then sometimes you need to do that in order to climb the ladder in this league. Sage also would very much like to be an NFL starter and so I'm sure he's interested in a deal like this.

It's one of those deals where you're going to either be a genius or a scapegoat when it's over. The Texans have hitched their cart to Schaub and I can understand if they decide to move Sage while he's got value.

Hervoyel
02-28-2008, 10:03 PM
There is a reason you are in the witness protection program.:aggressive:

Indeed. I wouldn't have seen his post if you hadn't quoted him. This subject is the whole reason why I have GP on my ignore list (along with a few others).

Texanmike02
02-28-2008, 10:05 PM
My, my, my...

So many "We need him" posts. "Don't do anything for less than a 2nd rounder!!!!" You guys would have sold him for a 5th before this past season.

Why so many posters so cautious about this deal? Because you know Schaub is always one hit away from looking like a pile of fallen Jenga blocks. Again.

Sage looked great. Schaub looked great...on the bench, shaking the cobwebs off and wearing a cap. Forget the stats. Sage was on his feet, smiling and waving at the fans after wins. Schaub was hobbling and unable to continue. But I know, I know...spare me the hate mail...Schaub was hit "worse" and in just the right spots to be seriously hurt. And I'm a turrd for saying so. I got it.

(Man, it feels good to post on this topic again)

I just have a hard time saying either one of them played great. Sage played ok. Schaub played ok. Sage did it with Andre and against bad teams. Schaub did it without Andre (well that's not true.. Schaub convinced us we had answered the 2nd/3rd WR questions by making Davis look like a star). Sage also had an entire year in this offense. Schaub didn't. Depth in this league is a luxury, no doubt. But I for one would rather have the Luxury of having a better OL or DB or OL or RB STARTING than the luxury of having a top 5 backup. Maybe if our OL was a little better we wouldn't have seen so much of Sage.

Mike

Texanmike02
02-28-2008, 10:10 PM
double post

Maddict5
02-28-2008, 10:35 PM
Chronicle Feb 23 (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5563985.html)

Despite the difference in pay, [Rick] Smith said the team won't hesitate to start Rosenfels if he outplays Schaub this season.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/104/captainobviouslb4.jpg

and thats a clear signs they have doubts in schaub? sounds more like typical GM speak

CloakNNNdagger
02-28-2008, 10:43 PM
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/104/captainobviouslb4.jpg

and thats a clear signs they have doubts in schaub? sounds more like typical GM speak

My shoulder's fine, I'll be out there starting by the time the season begins
Tony Boselli

Maddict5
02-28-2008, 10:50 PM
Tony Boselli

indeed..

tony bosselli saying that is all the proof i need that rick smith is just playing reverse psychology on the sage/schaub situation:gun:

PHAROAH
02-28-2008, 11:12 PM
I say do in a heartbeat and draft a guy like Dennis Dixon or John D. Booty in the 5th Round to develop.

AnthonyE
02-28-2008, 11:15 PM
I say do in a heartbeat and draft a guy like Dennis Dixon or John D. Booty in the 5th Round to develop.

I wouldn't mind either of them at all.

Texans Pride
02-28-2008, 11:21 PM
Well according to this site, via Pro Football Talk, the deal between the Vikings and the Texans is dead for now.

http://www.dailynorseman.com/story/2008/2/28/214813/572

Pro Football Talk is reporting that the trade talks between the Beloved Purple and the Houston Texans involving QB Sage Rosenfels are officially off. Houston wanted a second round pick in exchange for Rosenfels, and the Vikings wanted to give up a third. Neither team would budge, so there's no deal as of now.

GP
02-28-2008, 11:30 PM
There is a reason you are in the witness protection program.:aggressive:

LOL.

I still cannot figure out why people won't let go of Schaub. He's slow getting away from the center, slow to react to pressure, and is fragile. It was a nice attempt to upgrade the QB position. I liked it when it went down in the offseason, but the herd is once again refusing to see the obvious: The anointed QB has no clothes.

All I know is that Sage is still standing, still smiling, and he did it with an even MORE banged up oline than what Schaub had. The depths that people have gone to, to save face for the Schaub deal and maintain that "all is well," is amazing. I don't know that Sage is THE starter...but he's the same QB as Schaub, except he somehow stays upright more often. Advantage: Sage. Look, this is less about how much you guys think i looooover Sage. And it's more about how much I think Schaub is NOT our starting QB for much longer (mostly due to his enormous injured-to-playing QB ratio). Sage outside of Kubiaks system (in Minnesota, for example) probably flounders BIG TIME.

Schaub looks awesome when everything is perfect. He reads a defense better, he has a stronger arm and better placement. But I defy you to show me where the NFL provides QBs with a sterile and safe environment for the majority of QBs (not named Brady or Manning). People need to dis-associate themselves for a second and recognize that Schaub DOES have some faults that have hurt him. It really is true, guys. Just sayin'....

texasguy346
02-28-2008, 11:46 PM
I believe we're scheduled to play the Vikings this year on the road so if a deal for Sage were to happen that could prove to be an interesting matchup. That being said I wouldn't trade Sage for a 3rd rounder. Didn't AJ Feeley go for more than that? If the Vikings were to offer a 2nd round pick then I'd be more open to the idea.

Ole Miss Texan
02-29-2008, 12:08 AM
This was rather interesting...

I think all things equal, trade Sage for a 3rd rounder would be great. However, unfortunately things really aren't that great in Houston currently.

1. Matt Schaub has been injured- he has the potential and shows us flashes of being a great great QB in this league but unfortunately got injured twice last season, had shoulder surgery during the offseason and he is somewhat of an unknown (only plus was it was his non-throwing shoulder).

2. On top of that, Houston doesn't have a formidable Offensive Line yet. I'd feel more comfortable putting all our eggs in the Schaub basket if our offensive line was already solid but it's far from it.

3. Then throw in the fact that we really don't know what our RB situation is and don't have a reliable running back the consistently hand the ball off to. We really don't even know who our RBs are gonna be next season.

Because of our current situation, I don't see how we can gamble that much in trading Sage away. I think Smith did a smart thing. If our OL was solid and we had a solid RB to hand the ball off to, I'd do it for a 3rd... but we don't.

Texanmike02
02-29-2008, 12:12 AM
This was kind of a parallel discussion in a different thread but figured I'd pull this part out and put it in here too:

Just for reference:
98.9% Chargers
98.7% Patriots
93.9% Steelers
93.4% Colts
82.3% Jaguars
69.5% Titans

These are the % of snaps taken by their Starting QB. The Titans are really an exception because they don't rely on their QB to win games. VY is IMHO almost a hinderance because of his style of play. In this league (and yes I will be doing more analysis of this) if you have you don't have consistency at the QB position you're not going to win many games.

60 different QB's started a game last year.

In fact here are the QB's to start every game for their team last season:

Hasslebeck 10
P Manning 13
E Manning 10
Farve 13
Kitna 7
Cutler 7
Romo 13
Palmer 7
Brady 16
Rivers 11
Brees 7

If you're counting, that's an average of 10.4 wins.

If you didn't have your QB start every game.... you won an average of 6.1 games. That's why I'm not so worried about a backup QB. Rather than worrying about who the backup is we need to worry about getting a quality guy and standing him upright and keeping him in there for the Majority of the year.

Mike

RagingBull
02-29-2008, 12:31 AM
The history of Texans 2's and 3's"

2002:
2 Jabar Gaffney Florida
2 Chester Pitts San Diego State
3 Fred Weary Tennessee
3 Charles Hill Maryland
2003:
2 Tony Hollings Georgia Tech suplapmental
2 Ben Joppru Michigan
3 Antwan Peek Cincinnati
3 Seth Wand Northwest Missouri State
2004:
No 2nd or 3rds
2005:
3 Vernand Morency Oklahoma State
2006:
2 DeMeco Ryans Alabama
3 Charles Spencer Pittsburgh
2007:
3 Jones Jacoby Lane

The only guy on that list that is more valuable than Sage is Demeco. Had Spencer stayed healthy, then maybe he would also be more valuable than Sage.

That means they have had at best 2 players more valuable than Sage out of 12 total 2nd and 3rd round picks. So there is a 1 in 6 chance we get someone better. Sounds like a bad deal to me.

bigfan77801
02-29-2008, 12:37 AM
Of course, how many of those picks were made by C&C Mediocraty Factory?

The Pencil Neck
02-29-2008, 12:40 AM
2006:
2 DeMeco Ryans Alabama
3 Charles Spencer Pittsburgh



You left Winston off the list.

RagingBull
02-29-2008, 12:57 AM
My bad...

Texanmike02
02-29-2008, 01:06 AM
The history of Texans 2's and 3's"

2002:
2 Jabar Gaffney Florida
2 Chester Pitts San Diego State
3 Fred Weary Tennessee
3 Charles Hill Maryland
2003:
2 Tony Hollings Georgia Tech suplapmental
2 Ben Joppru Michigan
3 Antwan Peek Cincinnati
3 Seth Wand Northwest Missouri State
2004:
No 2nd or 3rds
2005:
3 Vernand Morency Oklahoma State
2006:
2 DeMeco Ryans Alabama
3 Charles Spencer Pittsburgh
2007:
3 Jones Jacoby Lane

The only guy on that list that is more valuable than Sage is Demeco. Had Spencer stayed healthy, then maybe he would also be more valuable than Sage.

That means they have had at best 2 players more valuable than Sage out of 12 total 2nd and 3rd round picks. So there is a 1 in 6 chance we get someone better. Sounds like a bad deal to me.


Ok so let me get this straight. We are looking at the ENTIRE FRANCHISE history? We shouldn't maybe judge based on what the current regime has done with their picks? Say Spencer, Winston,Ryans and JJ? Since the guys who would make our picks are the ones that made those should we say that we have like an 3/4 (depending on JJ)?

I've already conceeded that its a gamble. But we're not going to get any better if one of our few claims to fame is "best backup QB".

mike

superdave532
02-29-2008, 05:17 AM
i agree that sage is worth more than a third round pick after his performances when schaub went down. however, we gotta ask ourselves "is sage the future qb of our franchise if matt doesn't work out?"

i don't think he is. while he is a capable backup, we have more pressing needs (future lt, oline depth, rb, cb, dline, olb [or maybe even mlb if we want to move demeco back outside]). if matt schaub takes another cheap shot and gets reinjured, honestly so what if SR steps in and wins us two more games? are we any closer to winning a championship with him as our signal caller? i have a lot of respect for what sage accomplished last year, but if schaub isn't the long term answer then we have more important needs than a quality backup qb.

if we get offered a 2nd rounder or the equivalent, i say take it and sign another backup, especially since this year's draft is so deep at our positions of need. otherwise we're taking steps sideways instead of forwards.

PapaL
02-29-2008, 06:21 AM
Last season Sage was at least as valuable to us as Schaub was, and we don't have enough evidence on Schaub yet to tell if that trend will continue (durability?). I wouldn't even contemplate trading Rosenfels for less than a 2nd, with the caveat that I'd have to have a good alternative available before I'd trade him period.

Can't the same be said about Sage? What has he done in his career that everyone sees him as the savior? The dude was a backup that had a few good games when the starter went down. There is no evidence that Sage is going to continue the hot streak he was on. They both could turn out to be a Kelly Holcomb/Rob Johnson type. Had a few great games and has been riding that wave ever since.

PapaL
02-29-2008, 06:24 AM
Hoth-Boy you make some excellent points. I'm with you bro. Get something while we still hold the cards. His value will either drop next year or he's going to pack up his bags and leave town. Buy low sell high concept.

CloakNNNdagger
02-29-2008, 06:30 AM
What I find so interesting in this thread is how cavalier some are treating our QB situation as relates to Sage's value, Sage vs. Schaub as Texans starter and the advantage that a Qb enjoys when he is given the nod at the beginning of a season as a starter to prove or to disprove himself (which Sage has never had that opportunity) and have the offense built around his strengths, or at least with him in the melt of priorities. For all of those who were so easy to complain of the 8-8 season and to forget the 2-14 season, it seems that those same people are willing to gamble that Schaub will do well and stay healthy, not give fair "competitition between 2 QBs a chance to declare the strongest and most consistent during preseason................and to say, Oh Well, if Schaub goes down and we trade Schaub, we can always get someone in there to do the job.................and if the new backup can't hold his own in our system?...............there's always NEXT YEAR. Those same people with the cavalier attitude will be the first and loudest to deny their support of the resulting situation. At this point in the franchise history, we should not be looking to next year to REBUILD our major pieces...........we should be looking to HOLD ON TO and BUILD ON TO our present precious successes.

PapaL
02-29-2008, 06:45 AM
And the great backup QB myth continues...

ATRAIN
02-29-2008, 07:26 AM
I say we do and and re-sign Carr..........................Just kidding :)

threetoedpete
02-29-2008, 07:27 AM
oh nose :/

2 second-round picks is what we paid to get our starting QB. Tell the Vikes that the price hasn't changed ;)

Agreed: the price starts with both of their threes this year. Er do two twos equal one one ? The threes and a second in '09 would satisfy me.

threetoedpete
02-29-2008, 07:29 AM
I say we do and and re-sign Carr..........................Just kidding :)

I haven't negative reped anyone in a while...you were close.

My Team Roll the dice with the rookies in '09. Dixon @ 5th round...Josh Johnson in the seventh.

threetoedpete
02-29-2008, 07:36 AM
What I find so interesting in this thread is how cavalier some are treating our QB situation as relates to Sage's value, Sage vs. Schaub as Texans starter and the advantage that a Qb enjoys when he is given the nod at the beginning of a season as a starter to prove or to disprove himself (which Sage has never had that opportunity) and have the offense built around his strengths, or at least with him in the melt of priorities. For all of those who were so easy to complain of the 8-8 season and to forget the 2-14 season, it seems that those same people are willing to gamble that Schaub will do well and stay healthy, not give fair "competitition between 2 QBs a chance to declare the strongest and most consistent during preseason................and to say, Oh Well, if Schaub goes down and we trade Schaub, we can always get someone in there to do the job.................and if the new backup can't hold his own in our system?...............there's always NEXT YEAR. Those same people with the cavalier attitude will be the first and loudest to deny their support of the resulting situation. At this point in the franchise history, we should not be looking to next year to REBUILD our major pieces...........we should be looking to HOLD ON TO and BUILD ON TO our present precious successes.



All of that is true CNNNNND. But what is also true is you get at least two extra ducets to pick the guys on this draft board from 64 to 99. Lot of teams going to get into the second day and become ....desperate not filling critcal needs. Want to go to a super bowl....up grade the tallent. One way to do that is to controll a draft board. Do you trade Hershel Walker...you do if you get a shot to hold people up in the third round of a very tallented draft board. It's a huge gamble. What are you gambling a 10- 6 season if they clean up the turn overs and get lucky with the injuries this year ? Me, I take a shot at controlling the '08 and '09 draft boards. Especailly with this GM. Give Smith some wiggle room and turn him loose.
But you are correct in your assesment.
It's a huge gamble.

Minnesota has a #3 from Denver (2007 draft trade/ DT Marcus Thomas)

http://www.gbnreport.com/trades.htm

Wolfiegrrl
02-29-2008, 08:13 AM
Sage is a great back up QB to have in our system. He understands what needs to be done and the guys in the huddle accept his leadership when needed. Do not mistake a great substitute for our team's starter. Yes, we still have some questions about Schaub's ability to stay healthy. Only because it was Matt's first year being the number 1 and getting the snot knocked out of him by the Titans twice. (Was it just me, or did y'all think the Titans game planned to take Schaub out both times last year?)

Matt is our #1 QB. Kubiak and Smith are not going to let a great back-up leave town unless they get a good deal for him. We need the insurance of having consistancy at QB when Matt gets knocked out of a game. As someone said before, our QB is not Peyton Manning or Tom Brady; therefore, we need someone who can step in and get the job done.

BigBull17
02-29-2008, 08:26 AM
I know you're talking about Peterson but I wouldn't be opposed to Chester Taylor and a third for Sage.

I would do it for Chester Taylor strait up. Would take care of our starting RB situation, and you know what you get. The potential for bust is severly reduced.

Porky
02-29-2008, 08:33 AM
I'm glad it fell through at that price. The old saying a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush comes to mind. It's not like our starter has proven to have the durability of a Payton Manning. We don't know yet if we have another Chris Chandelier on our hands, or if last year was a fluke.

Nope, in this league you need two capable QB's. Sage proved his value to the team last year. We also have Schaub who set the market value on starter potential QB's without a ton of starts under his belt. It stands to reason to me that if Schaub is worth 2 #2's, and you evualate his performance vs. Rosenfels last year, then at worst Rosenfels is worth 2 #3's, if not a 2nd and a 3rd. I didn't set the market on QB's, the Texans, Bills, and many other teams have set that market value over the years. One #3 would not be market value, and in the event that Schaub were to go down, we would be handing the reins of the team in the most important position to whom exactly?

I don't think you help your team by dealing from the most important position on the team when you have depth in that area. Weakening that position for a totally unknown quantity in a draft pick makes no sense to me. Just ask Falcons fans how that worked for them. Have we learned nothing from history?

Dallas_Texan
02-29-2008, 08:42 AM
Ok so let me get this straight. We are looking at the ENTIRE FRANCHISE history? We shouldn't maybe judge based on what the current regime has done with their picks? Say Spencer, Winston,Ryans and JJ? Since the guys who would make our picks are the ones that made those should we say that we have like an 3/4 (depending on JJ)?

I've already conceeded that its a gamble. But we're not going to get any better if one of our few claims to fame is "best backup QB".

mike

So this regime has spent second and third round picks on:

Demeco Ryans - Def Rookie of the Year
Eric Winston - Our best O-lineman and RT of the future
Charles Spencer - Would have been our answer at LT if not for an injury
Jacoby Jones - Flashes of serious potential at WR and PR

Yeah........I would hate for this regime to trade a back-up for a draft pick with their success/failure rate. We may as well trade ALL of our draft picks for Free Agents at this rate.

threetoedpete
02-29-2008, 08:46 AM
GBNs 65 to 108.

#65 Andre Woodson QB 6-5, 230 Kentucky
#66 DeJuan Tribble CB 5-9, 190 Boston College
#67 John Carlson TE 6-5, 255 Notre Dame
#68 Marcus Harrison DT 6-3, 315 Arkansas
#69 Jason Jones DE 6-5, 272 Eastern Michigan
#70 Terrell Thomas CB 6-0, 200 USC
#71 Erik Ainge QB 6-5, 220 Tennessee
#72 Adarius Bowman WR 6-4, 220 Oklahoma State
#73 Mike Hart RB 5-9, 200 Michigan
#74 Oneil Cousins OT 6-4, 305 UTEP
#75 *Kevin Smith RB 6-1, 212 Central Florida
#76 Jonathan Hefney DB 5-9, 185 Tennessee
#77 Lawrence Jackson DE 6-5, 270 USC
#78 *Letroy Guion DT 6-4, 295 Florida State
#79 *Martellus Bennett TE 6-7, 255 Texas A&M
#80 Jamar Adams DB 6-2, 210 Michigan
#81 John David Booty QB 6-3, 210 USC
#82 Matt Forte RB 6-0, 225 Tulane
#83 Trevor Laws DT 6-1, 295 Notre Dame
#84 Martin Rucker TE 6-5, 255 Missouri
#85 Red Bryant DT 6-5, 320 Texas A&M
#86 *Geno Hayes LB 6-1, 220 Florida State
#87 Harry Douglas WR 5-10,170 Louisville
#88 Dre Moore DT 6-4, 310 Maryland
#89 Heath Benedict OT 6-5, 320 Newberry
#90 *Jerod Mayo LB 6-1, 235 Tennessee
#91 Donnie Avery WR 5-10, 190 Houston
#92 Lavelle Hawkins WR 5-10, 180 California
#93 Terrence Wheatley CB 5-9, 175 Colorado (X)
#94 Cliff Avril DE 6-3, 250 Purdue
#95 Shawn Crable LB 6-3, 245 Michigan
#96 Owen Schmitt FB 6-2, 260 West Virginia
#97 *Jake Ikegwouna CB 6-0, 200 Wisconsin
#98 Simeon Castille DB 6-0, 190 Alabama
#99 Phillip Wheeler LB 6-1, 230 Georgia Tech
#100 Quentin Demps FS 6-0, 205 UTEP
#101 Tony Hills OT 6-5, 305 Texas (X)
#102 Andre Fluellen DT 6-2, 285 Florida State
#103 Thomas DeCoud DB 6-1, 200 California
#104 Allen Patrick RB 5-11, 195 Oklahoma
#105 Dustin Keller TE 6-3, 245 Purdue
#106 Eddie Royal WR 5-9, 185 Virginia Tech
#107 Trae Williams CB 5-10, 185 South Florida
#108 Bruce Davis DE 6-3, 240 UCLA

http://www.gbnreport.com/top100.html

Lucky
02-29-2008, 08:49 AM
I feel for Sage. This was a real opportunity at a starting QB job. Sage will turn 30 next week, and he's not likely to get many more shots to become a starter. He still has two years @ $1.35 mil/year on his deal. While that's a lot of money to you & me, Sage is underpaid as a quality NFL backup QB. Andre Davis just got a $16 million deal as a kick returner and insurance policy to Andre Johnson.

But, the Texans can't give away assets. And a 3rd round pick is not a sure thing. It's said that judging a draft requires a 3 year perspective. For every Frank Gore, Justin Tuck, and Ellis Hobbs from the '05 class, you have a Andrew Walter, Ryan Moats, and Vernand Morency. A team that expects to contend for the playoffs needs a quality backup QB. That's worth more than a 3rd round pick. My hope is that Sage understands this, and comes back with the same enthusiasm and leadership he's shown the previous 2 seasons as a Texan. And I hope the front office recognizes his contribution, and gives the man a raise.

Goldensilence
02-29-2008, 08:50 AM
Hoth-Boy you make some excellent points. I'm with you bro. Get something while we still hold the cards. His value will either drop next year or he's going to pack up his bags and leave town. Buy low sell high concept.

Count me in too. I've been meaning to respond to some back points Hoth but yeah the backup QB is the most popular guy on the team it seems.

It'd be worth it alone to me to make the trade for the third on the grounds of having Sage start in Minnesota and start hurling up INTs. Teams are going to be keying on the running game next year much as possible forcing the starting QB(whomever that is) to win the game for them. I don't think Sage can handle that regularly.

For every Rich Gannon there is a Sage. The guy hasn't been the victim of a getting behinda good QB. He's had the reins twice in his career and flopped. I think some people here have been forced to watch David Carr the bulk of the past 5 years have mistaken mediocre QB play for fantastic play.

Gus Ferotte or another journeyman QB could come in and do as well or better. Honestly this team could really use another third and Sage probably feels like he deserves a shot after performing....well enough. He's most likely going to leave after the year anyway. We might as well get what i think would be the best offer.

Texan_Bill
02-29-2008, 09:00 AM
I didn't see this posted, (apologies if it had been):

Sage Rosenfels-QB- Texans Feb. 28 - 9:49 pm et

"Word out of Houston" is that the Vikings and Texans have broken off talks about a possible trade involving Sage Rosenfels.

At this point, the Vikings are offering a third-round pick and the Texans want a second-round. That's close enough that we figure they can settle their differences. Rosenfels is a great idea for Minnesota in a market that seemed empty of palatable options. Matt Schaub missed five games with injuries in 2007, so Houston may want to play it safe. The Minneapolis Star-Tribune suggests the Vikes may now turn their attention to J.P. Losman.
Source: Minneapolis Star-Tribune

Sage Rosenfels | QB (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=nfl&id=1276)

Kaiser Toro
02-29-2008, 09:01 AM
My take on the QB in general is this:
- Do not take a QB with a high draft pick
- Do not overpay for the QB position in dollars or picks
- Kubiak's system will make anyone look good who is competent

A solid back up QB is a luxury few have, but should not be kept at the expense of the team's future by not addressing needs elsewhere.

I am not a QB guy, but I am about improving the OLine and the Secondary in a AFC South that has exploited this softness of ours for years.

bigbrewster2000
02-29-2008, 09:06 AM
I feel for Sage. This was a real opportunity at a starting QB job. Sage will turn 30 next week, and he's not likely to get many more shots to become a starter. He still has two years @ $1.35 mil/year on his deal. While that's a lot of money to you & me, Sage is underpaid as a quality NFL backup QB. Andre Davis just got a $16 million deal as a kick returner and insurance policy to Andre Johnson.

But, the Texans can't give away assets. And a 3rd round pick is not a sure thing. It's said that judging a draft requires a 3 year perspective. For every Frank Gore, Justin Tuck, and Ellis Hobbs from the '05 class, you have a Andrew Walter, Ryan Moats, and Vernand Morency. A team that expects to contend for the playoffs needs a quality backup QB. That's worth more than a 3rd round pick. My hope is that Sage understands this, and comes back with the same enthusiasm and leadership he's shown the previous 2 seasons as a Texan. And I hope the front office recognizes his contribution, and gives the man a raise.
Not really. Andre Davis got paid 16 Mil to be our #2 WR and KR, and that is right in line with what #2 WR's make. You can argue that he isnt a #2, but someone else could argue that he is.:twocents:

Spike
02-29-2008, 09:12 AM
Two thirds or a second gets it done in my mind.....

Our commitment is to build through the draft to do that we need the picks.

Agreed. I like Sage and love the stability that he brings, but this is the type of gamble that we need to take to make that next step. The thought of getting two third round picks and going from 2 to 4 first day players in the draft is exciting. Based on the track record, our front office could be bring in 4 impact players for next season.

badboy
02-29-2008, 09:18 AM
I would trade for a second if we had a solid veteran QB back up ready to sign. I am not sure any available would be able to take over the reins as Sage has done. Sage may not be worth a second to another team but he is to Houston. Age, contract (2 years left at very cheap $) attitude and history in our system adds up to a keeper.

A Stewart or Mendenhall @#18, Anthony Collins in 2nd as your LT would offer Schaub a better season especially in the new ZBS. A CB in third such as Charles Godfrey, Colt Brennan QB in 4th and CB/FS Darnell Terrell will be your FS at 6'"2 203lbs and 4.43 speed in 5th round. I would be ok with that. Cowboy CB Jacque Reeves might be a solid pick up in FA.

HoustonFrog
02-29-2008, 09:19 AM
Sorry, I didn't read all 10 pages but if you get a 3rd here it allows you to get a pick..either #73 or #82. I'd assume #73 since the Texans want a 2nd in negotiations. Then you have #79. It gives you the flexibility in moving up to Rd 2 if there is a guy that has dropped. It also allows you a value pick to use if another team wants to move up in the 3rd...maybe you pick up an extra pick.

Right now we are at a time where people expect playoffs. Not many QBs make it a full season but it doesn't mean we can't find another backup that isn't good in Kubiak's sytem while we get some value that can help us build the playoff roster. That's my take.

Lucky
02-29-2008, 09:32 AM
Andre Davis got paid 16 Mil to be our #2 WR and KR, and that is right in line with what #2 WR's make. You can argue that he isnt a #2, but someone else could argue that he is.:twocents:
Well, I'd like to hear that argument.

Before AJ went down with his injury, Davis wasn't even on the active roster on gameday. When Johnson returned, Davis caught 10 balls for 142 yards and zero TDs. Those aren't #2 WR numbers, due to the fact that Davis wasn't the #2 WR when AJ was healthy.

I'm not saying that Davis didn't step up when Johnson went down. He did, with 23 receptions, 441 yards, and 3 TDs over those 7 games. He also came through when Mathis came up lame (again). Davis earned his new deal, mainly as a kick returner. Just goes to show the value NFL teams are currently giving impact returners. My point is that if your kick returner and backup WR is given a substantial bump in salary, your quality #2 QB is due some consideration.

Ole Miss Texan
02-29-2008, 09:58 AM
This is off topic so I apologize, but I love love LOVE watching Schaub to Johnson highlights- they are so pretty. :)

bigbrewster2000
02-29-2008, 10:04 AM
Well, I'd like to hear that argument.

Before AJ went down with his injury, Davis wasn't even on the active roster on gameday. When Johnson returned, Davis caught 10 balls for 142 yards and zero TDs. Those aren't #2 WR numbers, due to the fact that Davis wasn't the #2 WR when AJ was healthy.

I'm not saying that Davis didn't step up when Johnson went down. He did, with 23 receptions, 441 yards, and 3 TDs over those 7 games. He also came through when Mathis came up lame (again). Davis earned his new deal, mainly as a kick returner. Just goes to show the value NFL teams are currently giving impact returners. My point is that if your kick returner and backup WR is given a substantial bump in salary, your quality #2 QB is due some consideration.

I didnt say I would make the argument :) Here is the other issue, the market dictates what you pay Free Agents and his salary is a little less per season than what some thought and right in line with what other WR's are going to make. The cap went up several million dollars so we all have to expect the salaries to go up too.

When Sage signed his deal there were alot of people on this board that thought we were paying him too much. And now we arent paying enough? I disagree. He is making almost 2 mil this season as a backup. that is prettty good in my book especially since he wont be on the field at all unless Schaub gets hurt.

In Davis' case he will be on the field regardless if AJ gets hurt or not.

HOU-TEX
02-29-2008, 10:05 AM
This is off topic so I apologize, but I love love LOVE watching Schaub to Johnson highlights- they are so pretty. :)

Dude, if you DVR games, it's an offseason savior. I love watching games over and over. Plus you're able to evaluate players. :cool:

badboy
02-29-2008, 10:06 AM
Sorry, I didn't read all 10 pages but if you get a 3rd here it allows you to get a pick..either #73 or #82. I'd assume #73 since the Texans want a 2nd in negotiations. Then you have #79. It gives you the flexibility in moving up to Rd 2 if there is a guy that has dropped. It also allows you a value pick to use if another team wants to move up in the 3rd...maybe you pick up an extra pick.

Right now we are at a time where people expect playoffs. Not many QBs make it a full season but it doesn't mean we can't find another backup that isn't good in Kubiak's sytem while we get some value that can help us build the playoff roster. That's my take.New scenario, Sage is reported to be out for the season due to severe foot fracture (ala Yao Ming). What do you do to replace him?

Errant Hothy
02-29-2008, 10:19 AM
New scenario, Sage is reported to be out for the season due to severe foot fracture (ala Yao Ming). What do you do to replace him?

First call is to Kelly Holcomb (sp?), same as it would have been if we had traded Sage.

Ole Miss Texan
02-29-2008, 10:22 AM
New scenario, Sage is reported to be out for the season due to severe foot fracture (ala Yao Ming). What do you do to replace him?

Or we pull a "Tejada trade"- Trade him for a 3rd or so, then a week later, reports come out the the Justice Department is going to question him about Steroids. Sage goes to prison and never plays a down for the vikings and we have their 3rd rounder. :thinking: LOL

Errant Hothy
02-29-2008, 10:25 AM
I'm willing to bet, that no matter what happens over the next 2 seasons, we ever get a better offer for Sage. Don't forget that the last time Sage was traded it was for a 7th.

HOU-TEX
02-29-2008, 10:26 AM
First call is to Kelly Holcomb (sp?), same as it would have been if we had traded Sage.

IIRC, Kubiak gave alot of praise to Shane Boyd last season. :cool:

Or.....Bradley Van Pelt's readily available

Errant Hothy
02-29-2008, 10:29 AM
IIRC, Kubiak gave alot of praise to Shane Boyd last season. :cool:

Or.....Bradley Van Pelt's readily available

I think Boyd is the back-up of the future, but I think he would really benefit from atleast another year as the 3rd QB.

Van Pelt will be cheaper then Sage as well.

HOU-TEX
02-29-2008, 10:32 AM
I think Boyd is the back-up of the future, but I think he would really benefit from atleast another year as the 3rd QB.

I think you're probably correct Hoth, but it sure would've been nice to have that extra 3rd for Sage. Truthfully, last night when I heard about the offer I wasn't sure what to think. It's kind of a double edged sword.

HoustonFrog
02-29-2008, 10:42 AM
New scenario, Sage is reported to be out for the season due to severe foot fracture (ala Yao Ming). What do you do to replace him?

The same as you would if you traded him, find a backup that can play the system. Holcombe or whomever else may become available as cuts are made. That or you groom a younger guy. In my book this is the first season where you can honestly say Boom or Bust. There is no slap on the butt, "good job for 8-8" again. Getting a 3rd for Sage would be big in my book. I trust Smith to do something with it. If Schaub goes down, it most likely is going to be a tough season as it is...JMO.

Lucky
02-29-2008, 11:02 AM
In my book this is the first season where you can honestly say Boom or Bust. There is no slap on the butt, "good job for 8-8" again.
I agree with your assertion, but not your analysis. This season is about contending, and that trumps building for the future. Acquiring an extra 3rd round pick who may or may not help this season is about the future. In a season where 1 game can be the difference between a playoff berth or staying home, a veteran backup QB like Sage can make more of an impact.

Errant Hothy
02-29-2008, 11:07 AM
I agree with your assertion, but not your analysis. This season is about contending, and that trumps building for the future. Acquiring an extra 3rd round pick who may or may not help this season is about the future. In a season where 1 game can be the difference between a playoff berth or staying home, a veteran backup QB like Sage can make more of an impact.

We were 2+ games out of a playoff spot (Cleveland went 10-6 and failed to get in...I think), and we only won one game in out division...I think the playoffs are still a year or two out. We still have several holes to plug.

I'd be happy if we went 8-8 again, but with a better record against the AFC South. Could this team be one of those 8-8 teams one year, AFC contenders the next...sure; but I think another year of building for the future would be more prudent in establishing a team capable of winning franchise over the long run.

Specnatz
02-29-2008, 11:08 AM
I agree with your assertion, but not your analysis. This season is about contending, and that trumps building for the future. Acquiring an extra 3rd round pick who may or may not help this season is about the future. In a season where 1 game can be the difference between a playoff berth or staying home, a veteran backup QB like Sage can make more of an impact.

Understood but you could easily sign a Veteren who is capable, like Volek or Holcomb and get picks.

Lucky
02-29-2008, 11:18 AM
Understood but you could easily sign a Veteren who is capable, like Volek or Holcomb and get picks.
There's a reason Volek & Holcomb are sitting by their phones, while Rick Smith is getting inquiries about Rosenfels. In any other year, I would agree with making the deal. Just not this season.

HoustonFrog
02-29-2008, 11:21 AM
I agree with your assertion, but not your analysis. This season is about contending, and that trumps building for the future. Acquiring an extra 3rd round pick who may or may not help this season is about the future. In a season where 1 game can be the difference between a playoff berth or staying home, a veteran backup QB like Sage can make more of an impact.

Your point is well taken but that assumes that other vets out there wouldn't be able to do the same job. Sage put up great numbers...he also combined them with bad numbers. He won some but he also showed many problem spots. There is no guarantee that he does the same this season. I think if you can get a 3rd rounder and find a competent backup who can do what Carr did 2 seasons ago...hand off and stay out of the way, it can keep us in games just the same. It isn't like we haven't won those games. It just shouldn't be the norm. If you get a guy who can do more, it is a plus. I think you can have the best of both worlds.

dalemurphy
02-29-2008, 11:24 AM
Your point is well taken but that assumes that other vets out there wouldn't be able to do the same job. Sage put up great numbers...he also combined them with bad numbers. He won some but he also showed many problem spots. There is no guarantee that he does the same this season. I think if you can get a 3rd rounder and find a competent backup who can do what Carr did 2 seasons ago...hand off and stay out of the way, it can keep us in games just the same. It isn't like we haven't won those games. It just shouldn't be the norm. If you get a guy who can do more, it is a plus. I think you can have the best of both worlds.


There are a few other factors not being mentioned that make Sage valuable:

1. He knows the system very well and has won in it.
2. He has the total trust/faith of the team
3. He's signed at a bargain rate for two more seasons
4. He has a good relationship with Schaub.
5. His contract is up the same year that the staff must decide whether to extend Schaub.

Anyone we pick off the street will have question marks in each of those areas, expect possibly #3.

Errant Hothy
02-29-2008, 11:31 AM
Sage's value (in a trade) might be increasing.

With collins is saying in DC, Chris Redmond is returning to Atlanta, and Cleo Lemon just signed with the Jags; the options for Minnesota are declining.

Sources:
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl

badboy
02-29-2008, 11:45 AM
I say sit on Sage for now and see what happens between now and draft. For once we are in driver's seat as we don't have to trade.

HoustonFrog
02-29-2008, 12:01 PM
Sage's value (in a trade) might be increasing.

With collins is saying in DC, Chris Redmond is returning to Atlanta, and Cleo Lemon just signed with the Jags; the options for Minnesota are declining.

Sources:
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl

If it moves to a #2 we better jump

There are a few other factors not being mentioned that make Sage valuable:

1. He knows the system very well and has won in it.
2. He has the total trust/faith of the team
3. He's signed at a bargain rate for two more seasons
4. He has a good relationship with Schaub.
5. His contract is up the same year that the staff must decide whether to extend Schaub.

Anyone we pick off the street will have question marks in each of those areas, expect possibly #3.

I'm sure their relationship is fine but I'm also sure that Sage doesn't like sitting on the bench after last season.

rmartin65
02-29-2008, 12:05 PM
I haven't negative reped anyone in a while...you were close.

My Team Roll the dice with the rookies in '09. Dixon @ 5th round...Josh Johnson in the seventh.

Josh Johnson wont be there in the 7th. He wont make it out of the 3rd.

Double Barrel
02-29-2008, 12:05 PM
Teams know that we are willing to trade Sage now. And with the FA market being extremely weak for QBs, I think we are sitting pretty for someone to give up more than just a 3rd. I believe Sage's trade value will increase as we get closer to the draft. JMO

badboy
02-29-2008, 12:25 PM
Teams know that we are willing to trade Sage now. And with the FA market being extremely weak for QBs, I think we are sitting pretty for someone to give up more than just a 3rd. I believe Sage's trade value will increase as we get closer to the draft. JMOIf we got a 2nd and used first three picks on an LT, RB and CB (regardless of the order) Colt Brennan may be there in 4th, would he be a suitable replacement for Sage?

Vinny
02-29-2008, 12:27 PM
Teams know that we are willing to trade Sage now. And with the FA market being extremely weak for QBs, I think we are sitting pretty for someone to give up more than just a 3rd. I believe Sage's trade value will increase as we get closer to the draft. JMOCould be a draft day deal even. Looks like we will have a few storylines to follow on a potential move up into the second round. As it stands we only have one "first day" pick this season since rd3 is no longer a "first day" pick. Kinda takes the fun out of the first day of the draft when you only get one pick.

PapaL
02-29-2008, 12:32 PM
Dude, if you DVR games, it's an offseason savior. I love watching games over and over. Plus you're able to evaluate players. :cool:

I just bought a 1TB HDD especially for recording this upcoming season. Oh it's going to be SHAweet!

PapaL
02-29-2008, 12:35 PM
ouldn't we just call up Vinny T.? He is better than than our previous face of the franchise QB.

beerlover
02-29-2008, 12:44 PM
Could be a draft day deal even. Looks like we will have a few storylines to follow on a potential move up into the second round. As it stands we only have one "first day" pick this season since rd3 is no longer a "first day" pick. Kinda takes the fun out of the first day of the draft when you only get one pick.

its tough, really tough the way this organization past & present have traded away or mis-judged 2nd rd. value, with the notable exception of two picks, Pitts & DeMeco. I'm willing to bite the bullet one last time to resolve our QB situation post Carr. it would be a mistake to trade away the protection we currently enjoy for Schaub in the event of historical injury reports. at the same time fair value for Sage is no higher than a low 2nd, which would certainly return a rookie starter :goodbad:

HOU-TEX
02-29-2008, 01:12 PM
I just bought a 1TB HDD especially for recording this upcoming season. Oh it's going to be SHAweet!

Man, it's great. Every time I begin Jonesing for some football, I fire up a game within seconds. :cowboy1:

El Tejano
02-29-2008, 01:39 PM
its tough, really tough the way this organization past & present have traded away or mis-judged 2nd rd. value, with the notable exception of two picks, Pitts & DeMeco.

Look at what you said, and know that Rick Smith has nothing to do with Casserly. He has done better with his two past 2nd round picks. I am sure he will do the right thing with a 2nd this year. However, I believe Sage should stay.

threetoedpete
02-29-2008, 02:01 PM
Josh Johnson wont be there in the 7th. He wont make it out of the 3rd.

bet you a coke he makes beyond the sixth round. All he is right now is a lump of fast clay.

beerlover
02-29-2008, 02:09 PM
Look at what you said, and know that Rick Smith has nothing to do with Casserly. He has done better with his two past 2nd round picks. I am sure he will do the right thing with a 2nd this year. However, I believe Sage should stay.

Smith traded away the 2nd rd. pick last year & this year. look at what you said thats a big goose egg 0 only one 2nd rd. pick (DeMeco, which he was given credit for) in three years.

Insideop
02-29-2008, 02:12 PM
If we got a 2nd and used first three picks on an LT, RB and CB (regardless of the order) Colt Brennan may be there in 4th, would he be a suitable replacement for Sage?

Only if Schaub doesn't get hurt!

There's no way for any rookie to "be a suitable replacement" for Sage. They just don't have the experience that Sage has. If we drafted Colt (or any other rookie QB) I think it would be a couple of years, if ever, before they are ready to step in and play on a regular basis the way Sage has. JMHO!

bah007
02-29-2008, 02:15 PM
Only if Schaub doesn't get hurt!

There's no way for any rookie to "be a suitable replacement" for Sage. They just don't have the experience that Sage has. If we drafted Colt (or any other rookie QB) I think it would be a couple of years, if ever, before they are ready to step in and play on a regular basis the way Sage has. JMHO!

Big Ben says that experience isnt the only thing that matters.

Insideop
02-29-2008, 02:17 PM
Smith traded away the 2nd rd. pick last year & this year. look at what you said thats a big goose egg 0 only one 2nd rd. pick (DeMeco, which he was given credit for) in three years.

Smith can't be given credit for DeMeco. He wasn't the GM yet. I know nobody wants to hear this, but CC was still the GM. :shades:

Insideop
02-29-2008, 02:21 PM
Big Ben says that experience isnt the only thing that matters.

Is Big Ben available in this draft, and do we have as good a team as the Steelers had when they drafted him?

bah007
02-29-2008, 02:25 PM
Is Big Ben available in this draft, and do we have as good a team as the Steelers had when they drafted him?

We're not nearly as talented as the Steelers were when they drafted Roethlisberger, but we are still a pretty decent team.

NFL experience is not the only thing that matters when you're talking about a backup QB.

Its improbable, but not impossible, that a guy like Chad Henne would be able to suitably replace Schaub in an injury situation, just like Sage has.

Just trying to show you that experience isnt everything, not saying that NFL rookie QBs can always just step in on day one and play.

Insideop
02-29-2008, 02:45 PM
We're not nearly as talented as the Steelers were when they drafted Roethlisberger, but we are still a pretty decent team.

NFL experience is not the only thing that matters when you're talking about a backup QB.

Its improbable, but not impossible, that a guy like Chad Henne would be able to suitably replace Schaub in an injury situation, just like Sage has.

Just trying to show you that experience isnt everything, not saying that NFL rookie QBs can always just step in on day one and play.

OK. I'll agree it's possible. Anything is possible. But, I sure wouldn't want to bet the farm on it. The odds of a rookie QB, even Henne, coming in and playing as well as Sage would have to be pretty bad.

Ole Miss Texan
02-29-2008, 02:57 PM
OK. I'll agree it's possible. Anything is possible. But, I sure wouldn't want to bet the farm on it. The odds of a rookie QB, even Henne, coming in and playing as well as Sage would have to be pretty bad.

I don't really see the point. We 'think' we have our franchise QB in Matt Schaub. Say we do trade Sage for a 2nd rounder- that's probably what it'll take to select Chad Henne (2nd rd pick). If we have our franchise QB, why trade away a sure fire solid back up QB in Sage just to select a QB to be our back up with his pick who may or may not be as good?

bah007
02-29-2008, 03:07 PM
I don't really see the point. We 'think' we have our franchise QB in Matt Schaub. Say we do trade Sage for a 2nd rounder- that's probably what it'll take to select Chad Henne (2nd rd pick). If we have our franchise QB, why trade away a sure fire solid back up QB in Sage just to select a QB to be our back up with his pick who may or may not be as good?

The point wasnt to draft a QB with the pick.

The point was that if Rosenfels were traded, its not unreasonable to think that we could find another back-up that could play just as well, whether FA or in the draft. Experience isnt the only thing that matters, was my main point.

rmartin65
02-29-2008, 03:23 PM
bet you a coke he makes beyond the sixth round. All he is right now is a lump of fast clay.

I have to disagree. He threw 34 TD's and only 1 pick. That is ridiculous. The year before he threw 40 some TD's, and only 2 picks (I think). No matter what level you play at, that is ridiculous. Add that to his 4.44 40 and the rest of his agility drills, plus the fact that everything I have heard suggest the kid wants to learn and get better, I say he is gone by the end of the 3rd.

badboy
02-29-2008, 03:31 PM
I don't really see the point. We 'think' we have our franchise QB in Matt Schaub. Say we do trade Sage for a 2nd rounder- that's probably what it'll take to select Chad Henne (2nd rd pick). If we have our franchise QB, why trade away a sure fire solid back up QB in Sage just to select a QB to be our back up with his pick who may or may not be as good?You use the 2nd you get for Sage to draft a solid LT like Collins are Sam Baker and use the 1st round on Mendenhall or Stewart. Both moves help the QB as does the ZBS under Gibbs. A Colt Brennan can be had in third. Sage is probably not going to lead the team deep in playoffs nor would Brennan. If Schaub is injured a veteran QB could be found if Brennan was no thought to be ready. You would be getting a starting LT for a back up QB. I'd go for that.

Errant Hothy
02-29-2008, 03:35 PM
Another QB signs:
Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that the Miami Dolphins have reached a contract agreement with free agent quarterback Josh McCown.

Per Schefter, the contract is a two-year deal worth $6.25 million. Although that's a contract more in line with what a backup usually makes, McCown may very well be the Dolphins' starter in September.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Maybe the Vikings comeback to the table, as their options are diminishing.

CloakNNNdagger
02-29-2008, 03:47 PM
Another QB signs:


http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Maybe the Vikings comeback to the table, as their options are diminishing.


People can say all they want that we should have taken a 3rd for Sage or a 2nd, if offered, for Sage............BUT others say who would ever consider a 2nd for a backup..............well, HELLO, we paid two 2nds...............OK, I know the retort, he had real upside and we know what we have with Sage...............Yeh, right..........................we know as much of what we have in Sage as we do in what we have in Schaub.............And as far as I'm concerned, EITHER could end up being strong producers in our system..........or not..........

hadaad
02-29-2008, 03:51 PM
Lions | Team trades Rogers for two draft picks
Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:20:02 -0800

WTVD in Raleigh-Durham, N.C., reports the Detroit Lions traded DL Shaun Rogers to the Cincinnati Bengals for a third-round and a fifth-round draft pick Friday, Feb. 29.

So I'm pretty sure that a 3rd and a 5th isn't as good as a 2nd. Is Sage worth more than Shaun Rogers?

bah007
02-29-2008, 03:52 PM
Lions | Team trades Rogers for two draft picks
Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:20:02 -0800

WTVD in Raleigh-Durham, N.C., reports the Detroit Lions traded DL Shaun Rogers to the Cincinnati Bengals for a third-round and a fifth-round draft pick Friday, Feb. 29.

So I'm pretty sure that a 3rd and a 5th isn't as good as a 2nd. Is Sage worth more than Shaun Rogers?

Depends on how bad the Vikings want him doesn't it?

hadaad
02-29-2008, 03:53 PM
Good point but I think the Bengals wanted Shaun Rogers pretty bad.

badboy
02-29-2008, 03:53 PM
People can say all they want that we should have taken a 3rd for Sage or a 2nd, if offered, for Sage............BUT others say who would ever consider a 2nd for a backup..............well, HELLO, we paid two 2nds...............OK, I know the retort, he had real upside and we know what we have with Sage...............Yeh, right..........................we know as much of what we have in Sage as we do in what we have in Schaub.............And as far as I'm concerned, EITHER could end up being strong producers in our system..........or not..........So.. are you for or against a trade or not?

Ole Miss Texan
02-29-2008, 04:10 PM
Lions | Team trades Rogers for two draft picks
Fri, 29 Feb 2008 13:20:02 -0800

WTVD in Raleigh-Durham, N.C., reports the Detroit Lions traded DL Shaun Rogers to the Cincinnati Bengals for a third-round and a fifth-round draft pick Friday, Feb. 29.

So I'm pretty sure that a 3rd and a 5th isn't as good as a 2nd. Is Sage worth more than Shaun Rogers?

The Vikings would probably be willing to give up more for Sage than they would for Rogers. Likewise, the Bengals would be a lot more willing to give up more for Rogers than they would for Sage.

It all depends on the teams' need(s). For example- if there was an equal rated WR and RB- we'd be willing to give up more to trade for a RB as opposed to a WR (even if talent level they are the same).

Insideop
02-29-2008, 04:36 PM
You use the 2nd you get for Sage to draft a solid LT like Collins are Sam Baker and use the 1st round on Mendenhall or Stewart. Both moves help the QB as does the ZBS under Gibbs. A Colt Brennan can be had in third. Sage is probably not going to lead the team deep in playoffs nor would Brennan. If Schaub is injured a veteran QB could be found if Brennan was no thought to be ready. You would be getting a starting LT for a back up QB. I'd go for that.

Sorry badboy, I just don't think I can agree with this logic. What if Schaub goes down in the 14th game and we are in the playoff hunt? Do you want Sage in there or Colt? I just don't get this logic about Sage not being able to lead us to, or deep, into the playoffs. And good luck trying to find a good backup QB late in the season if you find out Colt can't do it.

Look, I'm not totally against a trade and getting something for Sage while his value is high, but there is something to what Porky (think it was Porky) said about "a bird in the hand." JMHO!

Insideop
02-29-2008, 04:43 PM
I'm glad it fell through at that price. The old saying a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush comes to mind. It's not like our starter has proven to have the durability of a Payton Manning. We don't know yet if we have another Chris Chandelier on our hands, or if last year was a fluke.

Nope, in this league you need two capable QB's. Sage proved his value to the team last year. We also have Schaub who set the market value on starter potential QB's without a ton of starts under his belt. It stands to reason to me that if Schaub is worth 2 #2's, and you evualate his performance vs. Rosenfels last year, then at worst Rosenfels is worth 2 #3's, if not a 2nd and a 3rd. I didn't set the market on QB's, the Texans, Bills, and many other teams have set that market value over the years. One #3 would not be market value, and in the event that Schaub were to go down, we would be handing the reins of the team in the most important position to whom exactly?

I don't think you help your team by dealing from the most important position on the team when you have depth in that area. Weakening that position for a totally unknown quantity in a draft pick makes no sense to me. Just ask Falcons fans how that worked for them. Have we learned nothing from history?

Yes it was Porky. And BTW, this is a very good post Porky. I don't always agree with what you say, but this post was spot on! JMHO!

Goldensilence
02-29-2008, 04:59 PM
Gus Ferrotte is available for around the same price Sage would cost us and Brian Griese should be available(there goes the Sage knows the offense!)

We're playing Chicken with Minnesota at this point and if we get a second come draft day that looks great. In the mean time if this doesn't go through we waste a good opportunity IMO. I don't think Kubiaks offense is that hard to pick up for a QB. I think some people here are grossly over valuing Sage,his QB capabilities and what Minn. is willing to reach on for him.

I'm not advocating let's get a rook to play behind Schaub there are some vets out there. An extra third looks real nice without a second rounder and the past two years we've been solid on tabbing later round talent. It'sa deep draft too.

hadaad
02-29-2008, 05:13 PM
I will trust Smith and Kubiak to do what's best for the team. I would be interested in them trading Sage for the pick out of self-interest to make draft day a little more interesting.

steelbtexan
02-29-2008, 05:16 PM
You use the 2nd you get for Sage to draft a solid LT like Collins are Sam Baker and use the 1st round on Mendenhall or Stewart. Both moves help the QB as does the ZBS under Gibbs. A Colt Brennan can be had in third. Sage is probably not going to lead the team deep in playoffs nor would Brennan. If Schaub is injured a veteran QB could be found if Brennan was no thought to be ready. You would be getting a starting LT for a back up QB. I'd go for that.

What he said.

buddyboy
02-29-2008, 05:17 PM
I'm glad it fell through at that price. The old saying a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush comes to mind. It's not like our starter has proven to have the durability of a David Carr. We don't know yet if we have another Chris Chandelier on our hands, or if last year was a fluke.

Fixed that for ya.:specnatz:

Texanmike02
02-29-2008, 05:39 PM
Like I said earlier. If Sage is at the helm, we're not making the playoffs. This is, as it stands, a 9 or 10 win team at best. We need to have another great draft with rookies contributing to really consider ourselves playoff ready. Maybe that year is this year, I don't know. But I like our chances alot better if we are able to patch up our LT or OLB or CB problem in the third round than I do if we are almost hoping Schaub goes down just to prove that Sage WAS worth turning down that offer. Oh and if you want to make the playoffs.. you sure as heck better have a QB who has the durability of a Manning, Brady etc. Teams over the last 10 years that have their QB miss more than 2 games in a season have a terrible track record of making the playoffs. Sure he can get hurt in week 13 or something and miss a game or two but you better not have him missing all kinds of time.

Mike

Errant Hothy
02-29-2008, 06:44 PM
Volek is staying in San Diego

Linkage:
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

And the options for the Vikings decreases by one...again. :D

dalemurphy
02-29-2008, 07:04 PM
Like I said earlier. If Sage is at the helm, we're not making the playoffs. This is, as it stands, a 9 or 10 win team at best. We need to have another great draft with rookies contributing to really consider ourselves playoff ready. Maybe that year is this year, I don't know. But I like our chances alot better if we are able to patch up our LT or OLB or CB problem in the third round than I do if we are almost hoping Schaub goes down just to prove that Sage WAS worth turning down that offer. Oh and if you want to make the playoffs.. you sure as heck better have a QB who has the durability of a Manning, Brady etc. Teams over the last 10 years that have their QB miss more than 2 games in a season have a terrible track record of making the playoffs. Sure he can get hurt in week 13 or something and miss a game or two but you better not have him missing all kinds of time.

Mike

Of course, there are examples that support 2 qbs:

NYGiants in 91- Simms, Hostetler
Pittsburgh- Kordell and ODonnell, Batch and Rothlisburger
KC- Trent Green and what's his name
Phillie- McNabb and Feeley, Detmer
St Louis- Warner and Green


that's off the top of my head. I also think there may still be some long term doubt as to how Schaub will pan out. And, both contracts are up in '09... So, I think they'll be careful about losing Sage under they are sure of Schaub's durability. Sage did after all go 4-1 in 5 starts, not to mention what he almost did in the Tennessee game. He's a great bargain for us.

Maddict5
02-29-2008, 07:09 PM
leinart-warner
garcia-mcnabb

thunderkyss
02-29-2008, 07:17 PM
my 2 cents... If we've made up our minds, that Schaub is our starter, then it makes sense to let Sage go. It's fair to him, and it would remove any inkling of a QB controversy.

We could use the second, and if another team would give us a high second, then that's definitely worth a QB with Sage's resume.

We know Sage can put together a few wins, if need be. Our team feels comfortable, and confident when he is on the field.

He's worth a second to us, and we shouldn't give him away for anything less.

Texanmike02
02-29-2008, 07:29 PM
Of course, there are examples that support 2 qbs:

NYGiants in 91- Simms, Hostetler
Pittsburgh- Kordell and ODonnell, Batch and Rothlisburger
KC- Trent Green and what's his name
Phillie- McNabb and Feeley, Detmer
St Louis- Warner and Green


that's off the top of my head. I also think there may still be some long term doubt as to how Schaub will pan out. And, both contracts are up in '09... So, I think they'll be careful about losing Sage under they are sure of Schaub's durability. Sage did after all go 4-1 in 5 starts, not to mention what he almost did in the Tennessee game. He's a great bargain for us.

Going back to 91 you can come up with 6 examples. I'll do the numbers again (I did them but they were lost when the board switched over). It was pretty convincing. Also you have to limit to about the last 10 years because free agency has changed the game so much.

Mike

threetoedpete
02-29-2008, 08:34 PM
I say sit on Sage for now and see what happens between now and draft. For once we are in driver's seat as we don't have to trade.

The Jerome Mathis play ? Roenfelds is gone in two yers .Nothing will stop it.

Look the talks have broken off as they should at this point. We owe the Vikes nothing. The three is very low from our prespective. They need the competent QB2 to miss going top ten in '09. They sweeten the pot with mulipul picks... strike while the iron is hot. Execute the move.