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DiehardChris
03-19-2008, 08:06 PM
From PFT (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/03/19/gray-to-visit-houston/).

More 'we're about to trade Sage' talk in 3...2.....1....

alphajoker
03-19-2008, 08:08 PM
From PFT (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/03/19/gray-to-visit-houston/).

More 'we're about to trade Sage' talk in 3...2.....1....

LOL, yep, that's the first thing I thought of when I saw the title of the thread. :D

Bubbajwp
03-19-2008, 08:09 PM
From PFT (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/03/19/gray-to-visit-houston/).

More 'we're about to trade Sage' talk in 3...2.....1....

Ill be the first to say





He's not as good as Carr!!!

Bubbajwp
03-19-2008, 08:10 PM
With this signing I bet










He'll be cut before preseason ends.


I bet I gotcha that time didnt I.

Bubbajwp
03-19-2008, 08:11 PM
I just got a great idea






We shouldnt trade Sage.
I definetly got you that time didnt I.

TEXANRED
03-19-2008, 08:24 PM
From PFT (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/03/19/gray-to-visit-houston/).

More 'we're about to trade Sage' talk in 3...2.....1....

OMG we are about to trade Sage!

Actually, truthfully, I like Sage, but Gray is more than adequate security if Schaub goes down. I like Gray a lot so IMO if we could get a 3rd for Sage and still not lose anything at our back up position then I am all for it.

Then we could argue about who should start, Gray or Schaub.

aj.
03-19-2008, 08:46 PM
The question is whether the Texans can find another backup QB that can give them 90 cents on the Sage dollar.

If they can, then trading a player (Sage) that was picked up as a UFA for close to NFL minimum two years ago and turning that into a 2nd round pick (not a 3rd), is a no brainer.

But the price needs to be right, and the replacement capable. Is Quinn Gray worth a second round pick? Hell no. But neither was Sage two years ago.

DiehardChris
03-19-2008, 08:55 PM
I look at it like an insurance policy. Gray's not as good as Sage, but if we get an offer we can't refuse for Sage - we're not caught with our pants down... like say, we would be if our only other backup was Craig Nall or someone like that.

Also, as usual, I agree with everything AJ said. LOL.

Second Honeymoon
03-19-2008, 08:58 PM
get something while the getting is good. if minnesota throws in a 6th round with their early 3rd rounder to compensate for the Myers signing, I think we have to think about trading our backup Sage. He is going to want to leave the Texans next year in just about every scenario except complete Schaub ineptitude or poor health.

Why not bring someone else in and get while the gettin is good. A great backup is a luxury that the Texans may not need to afford. There are backups out there that wouldn't be horrible alternatives. I want a 2nd for Sage but after the Myers signing maybe a 3rd and a 5th or 6th rounder gets the job done.

I love Sage but you gotta be open to moving him if you can get something in return. Some guys will become available here over the next few months in particular. The Bucs have a glut of QBs and they can't keep em all on that roster.

dalemurphy
03-19-2008, 09:00 PM
I look at it like an insurance policy. Gray's not as good as Sage, but if we get an offer we can't refuse for Sage - we're not caught with our pants down... like say, we would be if our only other backup was Craig Nall or someone like that.

Also, as usual, I agree with everything AJ said. LOL.


Well, now that we are going to be running a true Gibbs style stretch offense, I think a more athletic QB makes sense. So, a guy like Gray that has good wheels and can chunk the ball should be able to handle the system for a couple of weeks at a time very effectively.

TEXANRED
03-19-2008, 09:11 PM
What was his starting record last year? 2-2? I remember when what his face went down with an injury he did a good job of running the offense. And its not like the Jags have any receivers to speak of.

Ole Miss Texan
03-19-2008, 09:15 PM
I really havn't followed Gray that much but whenever I saw him come in and play or even start last year for the Jags I kind of liked him. Just looking at his stats he seems inconsistent but thats easy to improve on in this system. 10 TD's - 5 INT aint bad but those are stats. Generally I don't put a lot of thought into stats. Would he be a good fit in this system? I assume so if we're bringing him in.

I think Gray could be just fine as a back up for Schaub. The Vikings are really the only team we've heard are really interested. So we really need to not just value Sage as a 2nd or a 3rd but value him as in what #pick in the draft. The 63rd pick in this draft is a 2nd rd pick. The 64th pick is a 3rd rounder. Those don't have significant value differences at all. Of course we aren't talking about those specific picks though.

Minnesota has the 10th pick (73rd overall= 225pts) and the 19th pick (82nd overall=180 points) in the third round. If the Texans wanted Minnesota's 2nd round pick (16th in 2nd round, 47th overall =430 points). These are from the pick value chart which is dated and only a general rule of thumb. But if we Value Sage as a mid 2nd rd pick, both of Minnessota's 3rds wouldn't get it done. I think they wouldn't offer both and if they did, we'd take it in a heart beat. 2nd round i think gets overplayed and that when it's all said and done, we'd probably take a late 2nd round pick which is NOT the same as an early 2nd round pick. I have nothing to base my opinion on though...

I like Sage a lot alot a lot, but I think getting ourselves with another pick would be excellent- I hope we can work out a deal that Smith/Kubiak feel comfortable with...and we sign Gray.

gtexan02
03-19-2008, 09:22 PM
I like Gray, and I think he did a great job last year. Im surprised he's available

Ole Miss Texan
03-19-2008, 09:29 PM
So how many people guessed it would take less than 15 posts to turn this into a Carr thread!!?? :thumbdown

I'd rather have a gray schaub than a gray carr. :tomato:

haha, sorry.

michaelm
03-19-2008, 09:48 PM
So how many people guessed it would take less than 15 posts to turn this into a Carr thread!!?? :thumbdown

I'd rather have a gray schaub than a gray carr. :tomato:

haha, sorry.


In regards to your joke, I think you Missed, Ole Texan... :neener:




-

Bubbajwp
03-19-2008, 09:53 PM
In regards to your joke, I think you Missed, Ole Texan... :neener:




-
Post number three.
Ill be the first to say





He's not as good as Carr!!!
Who's the joke on now.

LOL sorry I just couldnt resist.

Bubbajwp
03-19-2008, 09:54 PM
Dont worry I got your back OMT.:)

Ole Miss Texan
03-19-2008, 09:57 PM
Post number three.

Who's the joke on now.

LOL sorry I just couldnt resist.

Dont worry I got your back OMT.:)

hahaha, wow. I guess when i clicked on your 'last post' earlier and started reading backward at your posts I got frustrated and stopped b/c you kept tricking me.

LOL ..it took 3 posts... love it. :slap:

281
03-19-2008, 10:02 PM
this is interesting... i hate gray as a QB... but if he signs, i'm pretty sure it's writing on the wall for sage to go to minny or elsewhere. i doubt gray would willingly come here to be the third stringer.

Ole Miss Texan
03-19-2008, 10:37 PM
this is interesting... i hate gray as a QB... but if he signs, i'm pretty sure it's writing on the wall for sage to go to minny or elsewhere. i doubt gray would willingly come here to be the third stringer.

What is it about Gray you don't like as a QB or at least a QB for the Texans?

Joe Texan
03-19-2008, 10:37 PM
Sage will not go anywhere

Bubbajwp
03-19-2008, 10:41 PM
Sage will not go anywhere

Everything has a price.

281
03-19-2008, 10:52 PM
What is it about Gray you don't like as a QB or at least a QB for the Texans?

his accuracy is horrid.

Lucky
03-19-2008, 11:14 PM
his accuracy is horrid.
Gray was pretty accurate on Week 17. Yes, it was against the Texans secondary. But, Gray was on the money that Sunday.

Gray doesn't seem to be a good fit for the Texans offense because he's not very mobile. I said the same thing about Matt Schaub last offseason. Then the Texans traded for him.

281
03-19-2008, 11:22 PM
Gray was pretty accurate on Week 17. Yes, it was against the Texans secondary. But, Gray was on the money that Sunday.

Gray doesn't seem to be a good fit for the Texans offense because he's not very mobile. I said the same thing about Matt Schaub last offseason. Then the Texans traded for him.

that was one of two texans games i missed this year, actually. so i missed that one. and it was against our secondary, so it's not THAT great. haha. seriously though, i'd rather keep sage around. but we'll see soon if the texans value that 3rd round pick more.

ChampionTexan
03-19-2008, 11:28 PM
this is interesting... i hate gray as a QB... but if he signs, i'm pretty sure it's writing on the wall for sage to go to minny or elsewhere. i doubt gray would willingly come here to be the third stringer.

Particularly since Kubes has shown a preference to only keep 2 QB's on the roster.

281
03-19-2008, 11:33 PM
Particularly since Kubes has shown a preference to only keep 2 QB's on the roster.

that too.

mexican_texan
03-19-2008, 11:39 PM
I liked what I saw from Boyd in the preseason. Of course, it was the preseason...against us.

Goldensilence
03-20-2008, 02:06 AM
I think David Carr's effect on the fan base may have well skewed some people's ability to evaluate QB play for the next 5-10 years(for some I wonder if the scars ever will heal).

Pre-Broncos Jake Plummer erratic at best. With Denver he made HUGE strides. Post Kubiak Denver not so well.

If Quinn Gray does get signed I do hope the Sage trade goes through. I think his proper value is probably a third with some people wanting to jack it up to a second. If they can great. If not, another third would really help this team in the long run considering Sage could very well walk next year without any compensation.

Lucky
03-20-2008, 07:37 AM
If not, another third would really help this team in the long run considering Sage could very well walk next year without any compensation.
Sage is signed through 2009.

Thorn
03-20-2008, 08:17 AM
We don't need to be spending money on Gray when we have Sage. I don't want Gray as the backup, I want Sage as the backup.

If Gray is coming in as training camp fodder or future practice squad guy, OK, as long as we get him cheap. I see no need to be spending more than the NFL minimum on more QBs right now.

Lucky
03-20-2008, 09:15 AM
We don't need to be spending money on Gray when we have Sage. I don't want Gray as the backup, I want Sage as the backup.
The Texans won't sign Gray unless Sage is dealt. That's the reality of the situation. I guess the Vikings looksee at Gus Frerotte pushed the Texans to reconsider this deal.

I would prefer Rosenfels to Gray as the Texans backup QB. He's a known quantity who has had success in this system. But, I can understand why Smith & Kubiak are contemplating the move. The Texans have done well in free agency with the limited resources they've been willing to use. This is not the year to break the bank in free agency. But, this team still needs more talent and depth. An additional 3rd rounder could be used on a situational pass rusher or a FS of future.

I'm sure Kubiak is thinking about Gray's performance in Week 17 against the Texans. He was the best QB on the field that day, throwing 4 TD passes. Gray has always been a strong-armed pocket passer, whose accuracy and decision making have been questioned. Gray answered those questions in that game.

I don't know if Sage will be traded or not. If so, I'll always admire him for how he's handled being the backup QB here. He never complained about his status even when he had preformed at a high level in the '06 preseason. Nor last season, when he stepped in for Schaub and helped the Texans to their 1st non-losing season. Sage would be missed, but he's deserving of an opportunity to start in the NFL. And he and his agent have probably told Smith and Kubiak as much, in private. Here's hoping that things work out well for all parties involved.

HOU-TEX
03-20-2008, 09:35 AM
I look at it like an insurance policy. Gray's not as good as Sage, but if we get an offer we can't refuse for Sage - we're not caught with our pants down... like say, we would be if our only other backup was Craig Nall or someone like that.

Also, as usual, I agree with everything AJ said. LOL.

How do we know that? Gray has much more upside than Sage did before he came here. IMO, the system is what makes the offense run. The QB just needs to know how to steer it.

If Gray has the smarts, he'd be fine as a backup QB. Let's take what we can get and make our team better.:cool:

nunusguy
03-20-2008, 09:49 AM
The Smith/Kubiak duo gambled big time with Texan Draft picks (2 second-rounders in case you forgot), to get Schaub. How's that lookin after we
factor in the very critical question about Schaubs durabilty ? Do they want to gamble again at QB and negotiate a trade that sends the player who many feel is the better QB for the Texans when all is considered ?

Lucky
03-20-2008, 10:01 AM
The Chronic finally acknowledges Gray's visit (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5635020.html).

The Texans have set up a free agent visit with Jacksonville quarterback Quinn Gray on Sunday at Reliant Stadium.

Gray, 28, is entering his sixth season. He has played in 11 games, starting four, with the Jaguars.

The Texans have carried just two quarterbacks on their active roster the past two seasons, and both Matt Schaub and Sage Rosenfels are slated to return.

Gray won two of his four starts last season. He threw for 302 yards and four touchdowns in a losing effort against the Texans in the season finale.

Kaiser Toro
03-20-2008, 10:05 AM
I like bringing him in. I have no idea where the Vikings are at the moment, but us bringing Gray in does make a statement or smoke screen that we may have another suitor for Sage. If the Vikings were truly ever interested in Sage they better be on the line with us or other GMs to have a finger on the pulse of the demand for Sage around the leaue.

El Tejano
03-20-2008, 10:43 AM
I think the Vikes talking to Ferrote and Atlanta picking up an extra 2nd have alot to do with this. Why not sign Gray to keep Atlanta from getting him so you can do some trading?

I am one who wants Sage to stay but if we can put a guy like Gray back there, and get a 2nd for Sage, we have to pull the trigger.

We don't know if Gray can win 4 games for us but we don't know if he will have to and we know he has done some good for his team before. Signing Gray would make Sage, who is most likely leaving us next year, expendable.

Bubbajwp
03-20-2008, 10:50 AM
Picking up a extra second or third + late round picks would really help our draft.

I think we need

1-oline
1-DB
1-Dline or 1-LB out of this draft.

Ole Miss Texan
03-20-2008, 10:56 AM
I like bringing him in. I have no idea where the Vikings are at the moment...

This probably has nothing to do with anything but I've always been interested in players/coaches background and how much of an effect that plays in personnel decisions (see endless Green Bay and Denver signings in the last 2 years)

But Darrell Bevell (the Vikings Offensive Coordinator) was on the football staff in 1997 at Iowa State. Sage Rosenfels was a four year letterman at Iowa St. from 1997-2000. Doesn't look too significant at all but just found it rather interesting that Bevell was at Iowa St. when Sage was a freshman on the team. idonno:

Dallas_Texan
03-20-2008, 11:23 AM
If you can get a third for Sage and all you lose is downgrading from Sage to Gray then TAKE IT, TAKE IT FAST. Are you kidding? As someone earlier said..Gray has more upside than Sage did when he came here. What's to say Kube's and our system can't do the same for Gray.

Gray made quick work out of us last year, he just didn't have a defense doing him any favors that game.

With our drafting abilities to me a third rounder means our decision is between:
Sage or Gray AND Eric Winston

I'll take a starter and a quality backup over a slightly higher quality backup who will leave us next year for nothing and no starter.

badboy
03-20-2008, 11:26 AM
get something while the getting is good. if minnesota throws in a 6th round with their early 3rd rounder to compensate for the Myers signing, I think we have to think about trading our backup Sage. He is going to want to leave the Texans next year in just about every scenario except complete Schaub ineptitude or poor health.

Why not bring someone else in and get while the gettin is good. A great backup is a luxury that the Texans may not need to afford. There are backups out there that wouldn't be horrible alternatives. I want a 2nd for Sage but after the Myers signing maybe a 3rd and a 5th or 6th rounder gets the job done.

I love Sage but you gotta be open to moving him if you can get something in return. Some guys will become available here over the next few months in particular. The Bucs have a glut of QBs and they can't keep em all on that roster.
I agree with what you say but Sage is under contract for two years and team is in driver's seat. Smith can play this one tight and maybe get a 2nd rounder draft day. I am not very knowledgable on other fringe QBs that might be available. I am just very pumped at the way this year seems to be breaking for Texans. Solid off season especially getting Myers (and his dad "55olinesdad")for a 6th. Man that is good dealing. We should fill some spots with 1st, 3rd and 4th in draft. I want to see what will do with 5th and 7th. ANd this is all without trading Sage or the #18.

El Tejano
03-20-2008, 11:29 AM
I'll take a starter and a quality backup over a slightly higher quality backup who will leave us next year for nothing and no starter.

That's what I'm saying. I want Sage to stay too but getting a backup like Gray, who has been shown alot of interest by other teams, helps me move Sage to make our team better and better through the draft.

Also take into consideration what this does to a rival. It removes a quality back up from a division rival.

infantrycak
03-20-2008, 11:34 AM
It removes a quality back up from a division rival.

The Jags signed Cleo Lemon to be their #2.

Dallas_Texan
03-20-2008, 11:34 AM
That's what I'm saying. I want Sage to stay too but getting a backup like Gray, who has been shown alot of interest by other teams, helps me move Sage to make our team better and better through the draft.

Also take into consideration what this does to a rival. It removes a quality back up from a division rival.

Now imagine this, b/c it's not THAT unlikely. If we move Sage for a third, and we trade down in the first for another third, we will have

1st round, 3 - 3rd round picks, and a 4th rounder!!!!!!!!!

El Tejano
03-20-2008, 11:56 AM
Now imagine this, b/c it's not THAT unlikely. If we move Sage for a third, and we trade down in the first for another third, we will have

1st round, 3 - 3rd round picks, and a 4th rounder!!!!!!!!!

2 3rd rounders can get you a 2nd real quick and a high one too. I guess what we are seeing here is that the value of trading Sage increases with the signing of Gray.

Ole Miss Texan
03-20-2008, 12:04 PM
As it stands right now we have a 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 7th Rd. Pick (5 total).

I don't know if we're going to trade Sage or trade down our first but I do think that for a team wanting to build through the draft (and needs too), Smith will be looking very hard at getting more picks. I seriously doubt we finish the draft with our 5 picks and only those.

Even if nothing too exciting happens it could be like last year during the draft. New Orleans gave us their 4th and 5th rounders to move up about 12 spots? (getting our 4th round). We netted Fred Bennett (who I think we were eyeing anyways) and Brandon Frye.

I can't wait, it's only 5 weeks away.

Errant Hothy
03-20-2008, 12:10 PM
Gray is more well regarded currently then Sage was when he was signed to be Carr's back-up.

Gray + a 3rd round pick > Sage. If the Vikings panic and offer both of their 3rds or a second then this should be a no brainer.

Times that make the playoffs, or even contend for them, rely on their starting Qb to get them there. Not their back-up; nor a combination of their starter and their back-up.

Lucky
03-20-2008, 12:30 PM
But Darrell Bevell (the Vikings Offensive Coordinator) was on the football staff in 1997 at Iowa State.
Nice catch.

CloakNNNdagger
03-20-2008, 12:38 PM
Pickin's are getting slim for a reasonably promising backup QB..............Anybody thinking that we may sign Gray for the sole purpose of turning around and marketing him for a 3rd round pick? Once the draft is completed, it becomes pretty late to be trying to get a "quality" backup in. Certainly waiting until roster cuts begin is even chancier. Therefore, if Gray may be considered a semblance of a quality backup, then there will be someone out there interested in turning a deal.
The best of both worlds..............definitely hang on to Sage and get the 3rd rounder.

Lucky
03-20-2008, 12:44 PM
...Anybody thinking that we may sign Gray for the sole purpose of turning around and marketing him for a 3rd round pick?
I can't think of any team that's done that in recent memory. Unless you want to include the sign & trade of Henson (who was a draft pick) to Dallas.

CloakNNNdagger
03-20-2008, 01:03 PM
I can't think of any team that's done that in recent memory. Unless you want to include the sign & trade of Henson (who was a draft pick) to Dallas.

That's one that came to mind.

Errant Hothy
03-20-2008, 01:03 PM
Pickin's are getting slim for a reasonably promising backup QB..............Anybody thinking that we may sign Gray for the sole purpose of turning around and marketing him for a 3rd round pick? Once the draft is completed, it becomes pretty late to be trying to get a "quality" backup in. Certainly waiting until roster cuts begin is even chancier. Therefore, if Gray may be considered a semblance of a quality backup, then there will be someone out there interested in turning a deal.
The best of both worlds..............definitely hang on to Sage and get the 3rd rounder.

Why would Minnesota do that when they can just sign Gray now?

One of the facets of this deal is that Minnesota wants to bring in somebosy who can compete for the starting jog, or take over if Jackson fails. If the rumors are to be believed they think Sage is the best option for this and they appear to be willing to pay, with draft picks, for him.

El Tejano
03-20-2008, 04:11 PM
I'm very happy to see that Rick Smith is not resting on Easter.

Errant Hothy
03-20-2008, 06:31 PM
Looking over the stats from last season, some of Gray's and Sage's numbers are relly similar (if we extrapolate Gray's numbers to roughly the same amount of playing time as Sage.)

Sage would have a definite edge in completion %. The TDs would be 14 for Gray and 15 for Sage, while the INTs would be 12 for Sage and only 7 for Gray. Avg yards per completion is 6.8 to 7 with Sage getting the edge. Gray had a QB rating of 85.6, Sage's was 84.8.

Sage definitly put the ball up more then Gray, but it looks like Gray took better care of the ball. Gray had the advantage of a good running game to support him, but Sage easily had better recievers to throw to.

All in all they performed about the same last year.

ATXtexanfan
03-20-2008, 07:39 PM
sage is worth a 2nd, nothing less, this will open up the 3rd to be used on a qb, is anyone high on henne? i think he could be a steal

Errant Hothy
03-20-2008, 07:41 PM
sage is worth a 2nd, nothing less, this will open up the 3rd to be used on a qb, is anyone high on henne? i think he could be a steal

Why draft a Qb if you are going to keep Boyd on the PS, sign Gray and/or trade Sage? Why waste the 3rd?

barrett
03-20-2008, 08:36 PM
i agree with the thinking that although Sage may be a better backup than Gray, you have to take advantage of a backup's value when it's high. If trading away Sage gains us another good pick and we still have an arguably decent backup it seems to me that we gain more than we loose. But it is a risk. Make no mistake. But you have to gamble sometimes, not every time, but sometimes.

camron1269
03-20-2008, 09:50 PM
wow if we can trade sage for even a third round pick and have gray as our backup id do it in a heartbeat. gray played well in jacksonville and his receivers werent exactly andre johnson and andre davis.
what do you guys about bringing culpepper in as a backup if we trade sage?

TexansLucky13
03-20-2008, 09:59 PM
Sage is definitely worth a 2nd rounder (and maybe a little bit more). I wouldn't mind at all if they shipped him off for draft picks and signed Gray, considering how well Rick Smith and Kubes draft.

Hopefully Schaub can stay healthy, though.

Lucky
03-20-2008, 11:56 PM
The Chronic's Megan Manfull's take on Quinn Gray's upcoming visit (http://blogs.chron.com/gamedaytexans/2008/03/what_does_grays_visit_mean.html):

Everyone knows Jacksonville quarterback Quinn Gray feels comfortable at Reliant Stadium. After all, he threw for 302 yards and four touchdowns against the team in the season finale.

Now, he will visit the Texans as a free agent. The Texans are looking to possibly carry three quarterbacks this season. The past two seasons, they have carried only two. But because of all in the injuries around the league last season, it has become clear that having a third quarterback isn't such a bad idea.

Now, Quinn would seem more likely to sign with a team where he is going to be a No. 2 though. He started four games last season and won two of them. The only way he could become a No. 2 in Houston is if the Texans were made an offer they couldn't refuse for Sage Rosenfels.

Minnesota already offered them a third round pick for Sage, so he could backup to Tarvaris Jackson. With the Texans bringing in Gray, the speculation is going to increase about whether or not Rosenfels will be traded.

At this point, I don't think the Texans expect Rosenfels to be going anywhere. He is too valuable to a team that is still unsure just how many games Matt Schaub can play in a season. Because of injuries, Schaub missed five starts and left four other games early. But as the draft gets closer, if a team surprises the Texans with an offer that's hard to refuse, Gray could be their backup plan.
This reads like something out of the Texans PR department. "Now" the Texans will carry 3 QBs? "Now" Quinn Gray will agree to become a 3rd stringer, after being a backup last season? "At this point", I don't think Rosenfels will be traded, either. But if and when the Texans sign Gray, you can bet the deal for Sage is in the oven.

infantrycak
03-21-2008, 12:38 AM
This reads like something out of the Texans PR department. "Now" the Texans will carry 3 QBs? "Now" Quinn Gray will agree to become a 3rd stringer, after being a backup last season? "At this point", I don't think Rosenfels will be traded, either. But if and when the Texans sign Gray, you can bet the deal for Sage is in the oven.

Megan Manful isn't even Megan Quarterteaspoonfull. I hope she reads this and starts providing something other than press release material. Either that or team up with another Ball Girl and have lots of photo opps because she is useless otherwise.

ArlingtonTexan
03-21-2008, 12:47 AM
Megan Manful isn't even Megan Quarterteaspoonfull. I hope she reads this and starts providing something other than press release material. Either that or team up with another Ball Girl and have lots of photo opps because she is useless otherwise.

The scary thing is that she is significantly better than she used to be. It is not a leap to think that the Texans have indication that they can get an acceptable draft pick for Sage. The issue for the squad is not having an acceptable back-up for Schuab before moving Sage. Very few teams have a quality 3rd QB who can actually be a 2nd QB on at least half the NFL. Even fewer when you consider the team went out of its way to sign the guy versus some UDFA who actually has a little bit of something.

Ryan
03-21-2008, 01:08 AM
maybe he can at least give the texans insight on the jaguars. We can use all the help we can get in the division.

Texan in Japan
03-21-2008, 01:08 AM
Quinn Gray looked good in the few games I saw if play last year. He's a big, sturdy looking QB. If we can sign him and trade Sage for highest market value, then I'm for it. Right now that value seems to be a 3rd. We can wish and/or wait for a 2nd rounder, but I'm not sure we'll get it. We may have a better shot at getting another pick this year (a 6th to cover our hole) or another pick in '09. Teams that might be interested in Sage and who have multiple picks--MIN (extra 3rd and 6th), GB (extra 2nd), MIA (extra 2nd), CHI (extra 3rd) and CAR (extra 3rd).

If we sign Gray, getting a 3rd and 6th from Minny would probably be doable. That would give us 7 picks again...also maximize Sage's value. If someone like GB will give us their 2nd, then Rick Smith is the new Merlin.

drewmar74
03-21-2008, 01:11 AM
Is Gray a righty or a lefty?

TexanSam
03-21-2008, 01:19 AM
Is Gray a righty or a lefty?

He's a righty

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=earMQNhUdOw

barrett
03-21-2008, 02:32 AM
wow if we can trade sage for even a third round pick and have gray as our backup id do it in a heartbeat. gray played well in jacksonville and his receivers werent exactly andre johnson and andre davis.
what do you guys about bringing culpepper in as a backup if we trade sage?

i think cold pepper is a dolt. i remember watching him with miami getting bullied by our anemic (at the time) pass rush and he reminded me of david carr but without the awareness to falldown. just sort of staring at nothing. not looking anywhere. furthermore i think he's a bit of a thug. at least that's how he seems to come off to me. furthermore, he's not really young anymore.

mussop
03-21-2008, 05:44 AM
The Texans won't sign Gray unless Sage is dealt. That's the reality of the situation. I guess the Vikings looksee at Gus Frerotte pushed the Texans to reconsider this deal.

I would prefer Rosenfels to Gray as the Texans backup QB. He's a known quantity who has had success in this system. But, I can understand why Smith & Kubiak are contemplating the move. The Texans have done well in free agency with the limited resources they've been willing to use. This is not the year to break the bank in free agency. But, this team still needs more talent and depth. An additional 3rd rounder could be used on a situational pass rusher or a FS of future.

I'm sure Kubiak is thinking about Gray's performance in Week 17 against the Texans. He was the best QB on the field that day, throwing 4 TD passes. Gray has always been a strong-armed pocket passer, whose accuracy and decision making have been questioned. Gray answered those questions in that game.

I don't know if Sage will be traded or not. If so, I'll always admire him for how he's handled being the backup QB here. He never complained about his status even when he had preformed at a high level in the '06 preseason. Nor last season, when he stepped in for Schaub and helped the Texans to their 1st non-losing season. Sage would be missed, but he's deserving of an opportunity to start in the NFL. And he and his agent have probably told Smith and Kubiak as much, in private. Here's hoping that things work out well for all parties involved.

Article in the chronicle says The "Texans are looking to possibly carry three quarterbacks next season ó something they haven't done the past two seasons under coach Gary Kubiak."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5637424.html

Of course they are going to say that, they would lose leverage in trade talks if teams didnt believe we were serious about keeping 3 QB's. Makes you wonder if Kubes & or Smith are blowing some smoke. Does anyone beleive we would carry 3 QB's?

Its easy. Ask yourself, what would be better for the team?

Sage
or
Gray and a 3rd round pick? Before you answer think about who we have drafted in the third round over the years.

stingray
03-21-2008, 06:06 AM
How bout we sign Gray and trade Sage and a fifth for minnesota's second and draft Ray Rice with that pick. This would only happen of course if Rice is available in the second round.

mussop
03-21-2008, 06:43 AM
If they wont budge from their third round offer and we really want to trade Sage, we should at least hold it for a small ransom. Like incase a player falls that is a steal is available at 17 we can tell them allright we'll give you Sage for youre third and a promis not to draft so & so. Get all you can mr Smith.

CloakNNNdagger
03-21-2008, 08:28 AM
I know that I may be the only one thinking that it if we pick Quinn up there is potentially a surprise deal that includes dangling a Quinn package somewhere down the line rather than a Sage package. I'm still thinking that Smithiak still wants a known secure commodity this season at their #2 position. Hold the tomatoes, please.

Specnatz
03-21-2008, 09:03 AM
Article in the chronicle says The "Texans are looking to possibly carry three quarterbacks next season — something they haven't done the past two seasons under coach Gary Kubiak."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5637424.html

Of course they are going to say that, they would lose leverage in trade talks if teams didnt believe we were serious about keeping 3 QB's. Makes you wonder if Kubes & or Smith are blowing some smoke. Does anyone beleive we would carry 3 QB's?

Its easy. Ask yourself, what would be better for the team?

Sage
or
Gray and a 3rd round pick? Before you answer think about who we have drafted in the third round over the years.

Quoting Megan as a source is about a relavent as quoting anyone here. Please reread what she wrote, she has not talked to anyone within the Texans organization for her conclusion about anything. Oh wait she had no conclusion, she double speaked about carring 3 QB and then mentioned trading the one guy she said was our backup. Hell we do that here all the time. She mentioned all scenarios yet said nothing.

Errant Hothy
03-21-2008, 09:34 AM
I know that I may be the only one thinking that it if we pick Quinn up there is potentially a surprise deal that includes dangling a Quinn package somewhere down the line rather than a Sage package. I'm still thinking that Smithiak still wants a known secure commodity this season at their #2 position. Hold the tomatoes, please.

If said team wanted Quinn why wouldn't the just sign him now?

Lucky
03-21-2008, 09:35 AM
Quoting Megan as a source is about a relavent as quoting anyone here. Please reread what she wrote, she has not talked to anyone within the Texans organization for her conclusion about anything.
I don't know if I agree with that. I think Manfull has talked to the Texans, but can't get anyone to go on the record. They're telling her that they may carry 3 QBs and that no deals are imminent. Megan's just carrying the water for the Texans. McClain does this all the time.

The fact is that we don't get honest analysis from the local rag, as you would get in Boston or New York. Or even Dallas (as much as it hurts to type that). Don't get me wrong, the Chronic has improved in its coverage of the Texans over the years. In volume, anyway. They still employ 2nd string journalists, so we're going to get 2nd string information. Ask yourself why does PFT beat the Chronic to the Gray visit? Is it because the writers at the Chronic are lazy, or are they asked to sit on news by the Texans?

A lot of the debate here regarding a possible Sage trade is whether the Texans are getting value, and if it is worth the risk. I get that, but another important element in this is the possible pressure Rosenfels and his agent are placing on the Texans to do the deal. Sage has been a good soldier in his Texan career. That could change if the Texans block his chance at a starting NFL job. Ask yourself whether you would want to compete against Matt Schaub or Tarvaris Jackson? And at 30 years of age, Rosenfels has maybe one opportunity left to get a decent (in NFL terms) contract. Without a real chance at the Texans starting job,a team where he could compete, and a new contract, how could Sage be his usual positive self come training camp?

DBCooper
03-21-2008, 09:44 AM
Megan Manful isn't even Megan Quarterteasponfull. I hope she reads this and starts providing something other than press release material. Either that or team up with another Ball Girl and have lots of photo opps because she is useless otherwise.


Let me guess, Ex-Girlfriend?

Just Kidding.

Polo
03-21-2008, 09:44 AM
The more I think about it the more open I am to trading Rosy.

However, if I'm the Texans I'm not trading away the guy for a sack of magic beans unless I'm guaranteed that a beanstalk will grow.

badboy
03-21-2008, 09:51 AM
How bout we sign Gray and trade Sage and a fifth for minnesota's second and draft Ray Rice with that pick. This would only happen of course if Rice is available in the second round.
Matt Forte offers more height, weight and same speed, I prefer him, if available.

nero THE zero
03-21-2008, 09:57 AM
I don't know if I agree with that. I think Manfull has talked to the Texans, but can't get anyone to go on the record. They're telling her that they may carry 3 QBs and that no deals are imminent. Megan's just carrying the water for the Texans. McClain does this all the time.

The fact is that we don't get honest analysis from the local rag, as you would get in Boston or New York. Or even Dallas (as much as it hurts to type that). Don't get me wrong, the Chronic has improved in its coverage of the Texans over the years. In volume, anyway. They still employ 2nd string journalists, so we're going to get 2nd string information. Ask yourself why does PFT beat the Chronic to the Gray visit? Is it because the writers at the Chronic are lazy, or are they asked to sit on news by the Texans?



That's where I was going with this too. McClain was on 610 last night and was towing the same line, opining that the Texans were trying to bring in Gray to compete for the number 2 job, dismissing any notion that he would be brought in to make a Sage trade feasible. He even said he "talked to his sources in Jacksonville" who told him there was no way Gray would go somewhere to be a number 3 (duh) and, therefore, it is highly unlikely Gray signs here.

Obviously the FO is going to put this out there, they don't want to lose value on Sage. But it is insulting to me that journalists who are supposed to report and analyze the news are sheepishly towing the party line. I mean, it's plainly obvious to anyone with half a brain what is going on here, so it's not like I feel cheated by the lack of insight from the Chron, but it's insulting to have McClain and Manfull feed us this bullshit.

CloakNNNdagger
03-21-2008, 10:03 AM
If said team wanted Quinn why wouldn't the just sign him now?

Some teams contemplate their options for so long (such as the Raiders) that their options "disappear." Furthermore, I am not only thinking in terms of such a deal coming down in the immediate future. If a team has their QB(s) go down in preseason, which certainly does happen, options become even more limited. Even if they try to pick over "final cuts" by other teams, pickin's are very limited and the wait can create loss of practice time to establish a semblance of QB/team chemistry. The acquisition of Quinn as a 3rd QB, if it even occurs, could ultimately lead to more than just the scenario of trading Sage. In the interim, the Texans could evaluate their new acquisition up close and personal, gaining a better idea of what they really may or not have.

Specnatz
03-21-2008, 10:36 AM
I don't know if I agree with that. I think Manfull has talked to the Texans, but can't get anyone to go on the record. They're telling her that they may carry 3 QBs and that no deals are imminent. Megan's just carrying the water for the Texans. McClain does this all the time.

The fact is that we don't get honest analysis from the local rag, as you would get in Boston or New York. Or even Dallas (as much as it hurts to type that). Don't get me wrong, the Chronic has improved in its coverage of the Texans over the years. In volume, anyway. They still employ 2nd string journalists, so we're going to get 2nd string information. Ask yourself why does PFT beat the Chronic to the Gray visit? Is it because the writers at the Chronic are lazy, or are they asked to sit on news by the Texans?

A lot of the debate here regarding a possible Sage trade is whether the Texans are getting value, and if it is worth the risk. I get that, but another important element in this is the possible pressure Rosenfels and his agent are placing on the Texans to do the deal. Sage has been a good soldier in his Texan career. That could change if the Texans block his chance at a starting NFL job. Ask yourself whether you would want to compete against Matt Schaub or Tarvaris Jackson? And at 30 years of age, Rosenfels has maybe one opportunity left to get a decent (in NFL terms) contract. Without a real chance at the Texans starting job,a team where he could compete, and a new contract, how could Sage be his usual positive self come training camp?

I also have to say I got her confussed with Anna-Megan (for some reason I do that from time to time). As far as her talking to the Texans, I am sure she and McClain do on a lot of what they right about, but on this issue I doubt she has because of the way she wrote the article. She covered every aspect from every angle.

The Texans are looking to possibly carry three quarterbacks this season.

She does not even say she talked to someone, she should have said Are the Texnas looking to possibly carry three QBs because of all the injuries.

With the Texans bringing in Gray, the speculation is going to increase about whether or not Rosenfels will be traded.

If the Texans are going to have three QBs why would they trade Sage? Oh that is right because Gray would not be a number two, so then again explain to me how we are going to have 3 QBs unless another one was brought in.

She wrote this piece not once but twice. Once for her blog and once for the mainstream part of the chronicle but gave no indication she has spoken to anyone. Hell we are speculating like her, but she is the one with Kubiaks phone number and could at least get a crappy quote to go with the story.

infantrycak
03-21-2008, 10:45 AM
I think Manfull has talked to the Texans, but can't get anyone to go on the record. They're telling her that they may carry 3 QBs and that no deals are imminent. Megan's just carrying the water for the Texans. McClain does this all the time.

I agree with most of your post, but want to make one observation. Since Kubiak has come to town, McClain's writing in particular has changed. In circumstances like you suggest, he used to say "sources with the team" or some such anonymous reference to having actually spoken to someone (**cough**Casserly**cough**). Since the last piece of the regime change was completed, those references to having an anonymous source have largely dried up. I don't think he or the Chronicle folks generally are getting the access they used to.

CloakNNNdagger
03-21-2008, 01:49 PM
Let me make one thing perfectly clear..............Here at the Chronicle, we deal only with the FACTS............ONLY with the FACTS...............Understand that we are only human..........and the facts can at times be confusing...........

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y55/silverbeam/CSM%20Blog/Ridiculous.jpg

badboy
03-21-2008, 01:53 PM
I agree with most of your post, but want to make one observation. Since Kubiak has come to town, McClain's writing in particular has changed. In circumstances like you suggest, he used to say "sources with the team" or some such anonymous reference to having actually spoken to someone (**cough**Casserly**cough**). Since the last piece of the regime change was completed, those references to having an anonymous source have largely dried up. I don't think he or the Chronicle folks generally are getting the access they used to.I agree and wonder if McClains comments over the Mario/Vince/Reggie selection impacted his new reduced status. He did seem to carry a torch for a while.

Vinny
03-21-2008, 02:02 PM
I agree with most of your post, but want to make one observation. Since Kubiak has come to town, McClain's writing in particular has changed. In circumstances like you suggest, he used to say "sources with the team" or some such anonymous reference to having actually spoken to someone (**cough**Casserly**cough**). Since the last piece of the regime change was completed, those references to having an anonymous source have largely dried up. I don't think he or the Chronicle folks generally are getting the access they used to.
I think you are correct and I also think that McClain doesn't really have a good eye or feel for the sport....he just has good sources and contacts that give him his opinions (basically I think his journalism skills are better than his eye for the game). Over the years his ability to critically break down football games/personnel/strategy without piggy backing on some 'inside scoop' has been lacking.

Double Barrel
03-21-2008, 03:04 PM
I think you are correct and I also think that McClain doesn't really have a good eye or feel for the sport....he just has good sources and contacts that give him his opinions (basically I think his journalism skills are better than his eye for the game). Over the years his ability to critically break down football games/personnel/strategy without piggy backing on some 'inside scoop' has been lacking.

But he can sure spin a good tale and make funny videos with Anna Megan! :tease:

That's what a lot of casual fans seem to want....and 'guy talk' radio, of course.

Arky
03-21-2008, 03:43 PM
re: McClain, I think in the past Casserley was somewhat open with him but I think Smith and Kubiak are a lot more tight-lipped so, he does more speculating these days.... I'm thinking the Chronicle is pretty much reliant on whatever the Texan PR dept. feeds them...

His (McClain's) projections always seem to be just a tad off: last year we had "Carr's going to be traded" - reality: Carr was released. Lately, we get "Texans are going to select a CB in round 1 and another CB in a later round" has been revised to "they are going to take a CB or LT with the 1st pick and select the other with the next pick". So, in some respects, he's just like many of us who kinda piece together things from various tidbits even though he should have an insider's angle.

His real strength is as an "all purpose" around the NFL guy... I believe he has a weekly appearance on Titans radio. But as local Texan analyzer, I think he's lacking quite a bit. His game day blogs can be particualarly difficult to read as he becomes petulant and gripey that the Texans aren't meeting his expectations not unlike the 5-star restaurant critic who's only getting 2-star service. I recall last year season when he claimed midway through the 2nd qtr of the New Orleans game that "Mario (is) invisible today". Not sure what game he was watching but I had Mario down for a couple of tackles and a couple QB pressures at that point. Mario went on to have one of his (many) "break-out" games and had a terrific 2nd half of the season. Sometimes with him it is either "praise or slam" so I've learned to filter while reading... As mentioned, analysis is not his strong suit but for reporting the news, he's adequate...

nunusguy
03-21-2008, 04:58 PM
McClain can spin some yarns from the ole days when the Oilers were around,
and of course he's also usually promoting a movie which "features" a 10 to
15 second appearance by him.
Wonder what kind of money the Chronical pays someone like McClain ?
LZ probably could write a column as well as McClain and make it much more interesting and informative to serious Texans/NFL fans.

El Tejano
03-23-2008, 08:27 AM
Anybody see Richard Justice's article in the Chron today? He basically says that trading a strength on your team to fill a weakness on another part of your team is not a step in the right direction.

Personally I feel he left out the possibility that Sage could be asking for out himself. I mean, if you were a back up getting paid a lousy back up contract and knew you were in demand somewhere else and you felt you had really only a few years left in football, wouldn't you want a trade?

infantrycak
03-23-2008, 08:33 AM
Anybody see Richard Justice's article in the Chron today? He basically says that trading a strength on your team to fill a weakness on another part of your team is not a step in the right direction.?

Personally I feel Justice is a baseball guy and knows jack about football and needs to shut his pie hole. He just throws a lot of contrarian views out there and then acts smug when one in a hundred hits.

Maddict5
03-23-2008, 10:10 AM
the visit is today according to NFLTA

TEXANRED
03-23-2008, 10:22 AM
But he can sure spin a good tale and make funny videos with Anna Megan! :tease:

That's what a lot of casual fans seem to want....and 'guy talk' radio, of course.

Hey now, I still stand by what I said so there. Besides, McClain's writing is no better or worse than any other journalist that writes something about the Texans and then gets flamed.

God himself could ascend from the Heavens and write something about the Texans and somebody would start a thread blasting him for not knowing anything about the Texans and calling him stupid.

aj.
03-23-2008, 10:45 AM
If Manfull said this:
The Texans are looking to possibly carry three quarterbacks this season.
...then she spoke with someone. She typically doesn't stray too far from the quote sheet and that's about as much stepping out on a limb or quasi-independent thought that you'll ever see in one of her articles.

Everyone is talking about trading Rosenfels from an insurance sense. From a strategy sense, the Texans are paying Rosenfels next to nothing.* If they sign another QB before the draft and pay him any more then 'next to nothing,' (hard not to do) there will be adverse effects on a couple fronts - which is reason to believe they won't do it - or at least not consummate the deal before the draft when a trade is most likely to occur. And that's only possible if they can find a willing trade partner with suitable terms and a QB/agent that's willing to be strung along like that for another month or so.

*Texans | Contract update: Rosenfels - from www.KFFL.com
Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:37:55 -0800

Houston Texans QB Sage Rosenfels signed a four-year contract with a base salary of $600,000 (2006), $1.1 million (2007), $1.35 million (2008), and $1.35 million (2009).

beerlover
03-23-2008, 11:38 AM
I like Quinn Gray, he can play in the league :)

Errant Hothy
03-23-2008, 04:02 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5641676.html

Former Jacksonville quarterback Quinn Gray, said Sunday that he plans to sign a one-year contract with the Texans.

Gray, who has visited Green Bay and Oakland, said after arriving at George Bush International Airport that he has another visit lined up in Buffalo but doesn't plan to take it.

"I don't plan on leaving here," Gray said today. "I'm ready to sign. We've been talking on the phone, and now I'm going to meet face to face with Coach (Gary) Kubiak and coach (offensive coordinator) Kyle Shanahan."

"My agent (Drew Rosenhaus) has an agreement in place. It's a one-year deal."

How long till the other shoe drops?

Hardcore Texan
03-23-2008, 04:14 PM
Wow. Thanks for posting the link, Hoth.

I just don't think we are going to carry these 3 QB's, if he does sign, and it appears he will, I will be suprised if we keep Rosenfels. I know they want to carry 3 QB's this year, but two really good back-ups translates to an additional draft pick IMO.

I wouldn't mind having all 3. I like Gray, he looked good last year and I can't believe the Jags let him get away. Guess we will see, but my guess is Boyd will be kept at the 3rd stringer (maybe on the PS if that is possible). Either way I think it is a great move, we will either have great depth at QB or we are going to get an extra pick in the draft.

Lucky
03-23-2008, 04:28 PM
How long till the other shoe drops?
Frerotte left Minnesota without a deal. That may signal that the Vikings are preparing to make the trade for Sage. Most teams want to get their new QBs into their facilities ASAP so they can pickup the system and interact with the players. If the Vikings are the team that's targeting Sage, I expect something in the next week.

Gray will sign a one year deal. So it's possible that the Texans could carry 3 QBs this season if they decide to spend a late choice on a prospect that fits the system. Oregon's Dennis Dixon & Tulsa's Paul Smith are a couple that come to mind.

Errant Hothy
03-23-2008, 04:32 PM
Frerotte left Minnesota without a deal. That may signal that the Vikings are preparing to make the trade for Sage. Most teams want to get their new QBs into their facilities ASAP so they can pickup the system and interact with the players. If the Vikings are the team that's targeting Sage, I expect something in the next week.

Gray will sign a one year deal. So it's possible that the Texans could carry 3 QBs this season if they decide to spend a late choice on a prospect that fits the system. Oregon's Dennis Dixon & Tulsa's Paul Smith are a couple that come to mind.

I think Boyd has already filled that role (the one that might be filled by a late round draft pick). I could easily see them signing another UDFA to be a camp arm.

It would be odd for the Texans to start carring 3 QBS now, espically since Kubiak has only carried 2 in the previous years.

dtran04
03-23-2008, 04:34 PM
Out of all the places, I would love Sage to end up in MIN. It seems like a pretty good situation for him.

beerlover
03-23-2008, 05:02 PM
"The Texans have two good quarterbacks, and if everything goes like I hope it does, I'll be added to the mix," Gray said. "I think that I can fit in here. I love Houston. I like the organization and where the Texans are headed."

"Hopefully, everything will go well when we meet (Monday at Reliant Stadium)," Gray said.

love the fact, "this just in" The Texans Have Stability @ QB- Richard Justice

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5640711.html

ArlingtonTexan
03-23-2008, 05:09 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5641676.html



How long till the other shoe drops?

At the price now in the article, at least finanically it does not have to happen.

Gray, who has visited Green Bay and Oakland, said after arriving at George Bush Interconential Airport that he has another visit lined up in Buffalo but doesn't plan to take it. The Texans are giving Gray a one-year deal worth $635,000, including $40,000 to sign

Bubbajwp
03-23-2008, 05:12 PM
"The Texans have two good quarterbacks, and if everything goes like I hope it does, I'll be added to the mix," Gray said. "I think that I can fit in here. I love Houston. I like the organization and where the Texans are headed."

"Hopefully, everything will go well when we meet (Monday at Reliant Stadium)," Gray said.

love the fact, "this just in" The Texans Have Stability @ QB- Richard Justice

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5640711.html

I was just thinking why would gray want to come here. He would become the third string QB. Third string. Either he thinks he can beat out Sage and or Schaub or he knows somthing we dont. Makes me wonder if we already have a trade in place to move Sage and were just waiting for Gray to sign the dotted line.

Texan in Japan
03-23-2008, 05:18 PM
This sets up the trade for Sage and gives Quinn an opportunity to prove himself in another system.

I like Sage, but for anything more than a 3rd it will be hard to not trade him. Hey Bryant McKinney could be our new Lt...doubt that happens, but stranger things have. A 3rd and 6th for Sage or a 2nd for Sage would be a nice addition to our draft plans.

Errant Hothy
03-23-2008, 05:59 PM
At the price now in the article, at least finanically it does not have to happen.

With such a cap friendly contract he really could be coming here to be the 3rd string QB.

aj.
03-23-2008, 06:15 PM
At the price now in the article, at least finanically it does not have to happen.

Basically a one-year minimum. Interesting. That fits the 'we want to keep three QBs' sales job at least.

DiehardChris
03-23-2008, 06:37 PM
Yeah, that low salary number makes me think maybe he actually could be the 3rd-stringer. That pretty much shocks me. I never thought for a second he would want to be a 3rd. I still think there's a pretty good chance that a trade goes down... but it's certainly not 'carved in stone' like I stupidly said on my blog.

Lucky
03-23-2008, 06:53 PM
I think Boyd has already filled that role (the one that might be filled by a late round draft pick). I could easily see them signing another UDFA to be a camp arm.
I'm not as sold as others are on Boyd becoming an NFL backup. He looks like a CFLer, at best, to me.

There's not a lot of quality QBs at the top of this draft, but there are some interesting projects at the back. Marshall's Bernard Morris flashed a NFL arm at the allstar games and the combine. He might be worth the investment of a roster spot.

beerlover
03-23-2008, 07:03 PM
I'm not as sold as others are on Boyd becoming an NFL backup. He looks like a CFLer, at best, to me.

There's not a lot of quality QBs at the top of this draft, but there are some interesting projects at the back. Marshall's Bernard Morris flashed a NFL arm at the allstar games and the combine. He might be worth the investment of a roster spot.

agreed.

Quinn signs here one he feels "in the mix" because even with Schaub & Sage the QB position is far from settled given the nature of injurys & two he likes what the Texans are doing & feels from a buisness move one year out another team (if its not the Texans) will give him the big contract he ultimately seeks based on his ability to flourish in this system.

J-Russ
03-23-2008, 07:06 PM
Gray's other suitors:

GB: Aaron Rodgers-Starter(1st year, also ???)
??????-Back-Up

Oak: JaMarcus Russel-Starter(1st year, also ???)
?????-Back-Up

Buf: Trent Edwards-Starter(decent, but could upgrade)
?????-Back-up(JP on the trading block)

Hou: Matt Schaub-Starter(legit, aside from injuries)
Sage Rosenfels-Back-Up(Solid back-up QB, with starting potential)

Two problems,

Quinn was the back-up for the jaguars last year, he could at the very least be the back-up for oak, gb, buf; maybe even a starter with there starter as a question mark.

So why would he DOWNGRADE to come play for us, especially at the prime of his career(he's about 28).

I'm pretty sure he's coming here to be our back-up, so that means:

Bye-bye Sage.

Errant Hothy
03-23-2008, 07:11 PM
Gray's other suitors:

GB: Aaron Rodgers-Starter(1st year, also ???)
??????-Back-Up

Oak: JaMarcus Russel-Starter(1st year, also ???)
?????-Back-Up

Buf: Trent Edwards-Starter(decent, but could upgrade)
?????-Back-up(JP on the trading block)

Hou: Matt Schaub-Starter(legit, aside from injuries)
Sage Rosenfels-Back-Up(Solid back-up QB, with starting potential)

Two problems,

Quinn was the back-up for the jaguars last year, he could at the very least be the back-up for oak, gb, buf; maybe even a starter with there starter as a question mark.

So why would he DOWNGRADE to come play for us, especially at the prime of his career(he's about 28).

I'm pretty sure he's coming here to be our back-up, so that means:

Bye-bye Sage.

Maybe, but I tend to think he probably could have gotten more money from any of those other teams you just listed. SO why not just sign with them now, why this charade of singing here to be the 3rd stringer, unless he really signed here to be the 3rd stringer.

Polo
03-23-2008, 07:13 PM
Maybe, but I tend to think he probably could have gotten more money from any of those other teams you just listed. SO why not just sign with them now, why this charade of singing here to be the 3rd stringer, unless he really signed here to be the 3rd stringer.

?????

I don't get how that makes sense...

Errant Hothy
03-23-2008, 07:14 PM
I'm not as sold as others are on Boyd becoming an NFL backup. He looks like a CFLer, at best, to me.

There's not a lot of quality QBs at the top of this draft, but there are some interesting projects at the back. Marshall's Bernard Morris flashed a NFL arm at the allstar games and the combine. He might be worth the investment of a roster spot.

Ever since Carr busted I've concluded that I have no eye for judging potential QB talent. Established talent, yeah I can see why Manning and Brady are the best in the NFL, judgin between rookies I don't have a clue.

But I do trust Kubiak when it comes to QBs, so we'll see how it plays out in camp and the pre-season.

mattschaub#8
03-23-2008, 07:15 PM
:bomb: :woot2: let me make this clear

1st if we trade sage we will need beter off line man to protect matt and.....
quinn....

2nd i would trade for 2nd rounder...

3rd ... quinn may be good he did not have much playing time i think its an another gamble like we did for matt



so i think we arent tradeing sage because of # 3 he had 1 good game aginst our def that i rember....


tell me what yall think :perfect10:

Polo
03-23-2008, 07:17 PM
I think Gray is going to be the second stringer.

The low salary definitely catches my attention, but I just can't see him signing here knowing we like to carry two QB's and knowing that if Sage stays he will be hard pressed to see playing time, let a lone making the team.

Errant Hothy
03-23-2008, 07:18 PM
?????

I don't get how that makes sense...

Why would Gray sign a low $ (by back-up QB standards) contract to come here under the umbrella of being the 3rd stinger when he could have just as likely signed with GB, Oak, or Buff for real back-up money (say a contract similar to Sage's)?

If he is here to be the back-up and we complete the Sage trade to Minn, not only will the Texans have pick-ed up an extra draft pick but they will also have generated some extra cap room (I think). It just seems like a scenario that would be to good to be true.

The easier scenario to believe is that Gray was signed to be the 3rd stringer.

Wolf
03-23-2008, 07:19 PM
Overall , maybe he likes warm weather climates? and with sage and Matt he feels he would have a better shot (in case one gets injured)

http://jaguars.com/Team/Player.aspx?id=1846

just throwing that out .

geeze I forgot how bad he lit us up

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=271230034

25 of 39 for 302 yards 4 td's :thud:

Wolf
03-23-2008, 07:26 PM
mcClain weighs in

http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2008/03/getting_gray_for_minimum_is_a.html

Getting Gray for minimum is a steal for Texans

I still can't believe the Texans are getting former Jacksonville quarterback Quinn Gray for a one-year deal worth $635,000, including $40,000 to sign.

The last time we saw Gray he was tearing up the Texans' defense at Reliant Stadium. It was in the last game of the regular season -- the Texans' 48-22 victory over the Jaguars, or at least part of Jacksonville's team. Coach Jack Del Rio rested many of his starters in preparation for the playoffs.

Gray replaced quarterback David Garrard and put up the best numbers of his career. Gray was 25-of-39 (64.1 percent) for 302 yards and four touchowns and no interceptions.

I don't know about you, but watching Gray play so impressively in that game made me think he'd leave Jacksonville for at least a backup job. Now he's going to sign for the $595,000 minimum and the $40 grand signing bonus.


Here's what the Texans are getting. After spending almost all of his first four seasons on the Jaguars' bench, Gray started four games last season and was 2-2. He was 2-1 with his lineup intact, including victories over playoff teams Tampa Bay and Tennessee and a loss to New Orleans.

In his seven games, including four starts, Gray was 80-of-144 (55.6) for 986 yards, 10 touchdowns and five interceptions. His rating was 85.6. In his four starts, he had eight touchdown passes and three interceptions.

What the Texans have at quarterback is three veterans who are coming off the best seasons of their career.

Now, let me ask you this: Do you think they'll go into the season with Schaub, Rosenfels and Gray on the roster?

mattschaub#8
03-23-2008, 07:31 PM
mcClain weighs in

http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2008/03/getting_gray_for_minimum_is_a.html

thos this mene no more sage =[

J-Russ
03-23-2008, 07:37 PM
Why would Gray sign a low $ (by back-up QB standards) contract to come here under the umbrella of being the 3rd stinger when he could have just as likely signed with GB, Oak, or Buff for real back-up money (say a contract similar to Sage's)?

If he is here to be the back-up and we complete the Sage trade to Minn, not only will the Texans have pick-ed up an extra draft pick but they will also have generated some extra cap room (I think). It just seems like a scenario that would be to good to be true.

The easier scenario to believe is that Gray was signed to be the 3rd stringer.

What? Quinn is going to sign with us, the contract already there, it's unlikely he back outs. The Viking was willing to trade a 3rd for Sage no less then a month ago, the intrest is still there. How is it impossible to think it will happen? Why is it a easier scenario to have Gray become our 3rd stringer, wouldn't it actually be more logical to trade Sage after we sign Quinn?

Step 1 - Get a solid back-up to replace Sage: check

Step 2 - Trade Sage for a high draft pick: uncheck?

ok......

Btw, I think the staff is high on Boyd, and he'll take over the back-up spot after the 09 season.

CloakNNNdagger
03-23-2008, 07:45 PM
?????

I don't get how that makes sense...


With this type of contract (options):


the Texans have a cheap QB willing to gamble that he makes it up the ladder quickly, with injuries or though competition

the Texans can see what they have and if not enthralled $40,000 will not be a deterrent when deciding cuts

he can still be used for trade when all better options to other teams are gone or another team's QB goes down and that team becomes desparate (evidently, he is the best alternative available at this time and therefore probably also later)............the more desparate the more lucrative for him and the more valuable for the Texans.

the Texans didn't want to insult Sage with a more lucrative contract and Gray was promised a renegotiation if he "beats out" Sage

the Texans are gambling that he can play up to Sage's level or better and have a Sage trade awaiting (and as you know, I feel that this could be catastrophic..........and unlikely)

Errant Hothy
03-23-2008, 07:47 PM
What? Quinn is going to sign with us, the contract already there, it's unlikely he back outs. The Viking was willing to trade a 3rd for Sage no less then a month ago, the intrest is still there. How is it impossible to think it will happen? Why is it a easier scenario to have Gray become our 3rd stringer, wouldn't it actually be more logical to trade Sage after we sign Quinn?
Step 1 - Get a solid back-up to replace Sage: check

Step 2 - Trade Sage for a high draft pick: uncheck?

ok......

Btw, I think the staff is high on Boyd, and he'll take over the back-up spot after the 09 season.


First off I never said it was impossible to think anything will happen. The preverbial wrench in your plan is the fact that Gray signed for the smallest amount of money he could.

Why would he do that if he knew he was going to be the back-up or if he even thought he was going to be the back up? Most back-ups are paid a bit more then the vet minimum that Gray will be getting paid. The money makes the "Gray as 3rd stinger" easier for me to believe then "Gray as back up, clear additional cap space and get an additional 3rd round pick".

I hope it happens as you have described it, I really do; but giventhe contract Gray is signing it just seems unlikely to me. Espically when you factor in the fact that Drew Rosenhaus is Gray's agent.

J-Russ
03-23-2008, 07:50 PM
Just curious to the people whom think Quinn signed as a back-up to our back-up,

what do you ya'll think is the reason for Quinn taking less moneys and a lesser role to play here, when he could've gotten more of both elsewhere(he had 4 different choice).

infantrycak
03-23-2008, 08:09 PM
they will also have generated some extra cap room (I think).

Getting rid of Sage would create $1 mil in dead money, but would net $350k in cap space.

ccdude730
03-23-2008, 08:16 PM
i think its interesting that he only signed a 1 year contract. i was honestly expecting about a 3 year deal if we were serious about trading away sage (and thats not saying it wont happen). but assuming we trade away sage and gray is the backup, what options are we going to have for 2009? do we just resign gray or do we look elsewhere?

Maddict5
03-23-2008, 08:19 PM
By any measuring stick, Smith and Kubiak have done terrific things. Trading Sage Rosenfels wouldn't be a step in the right direction.

justice should be telling gary and rick what to do.. i mean he was right about so many other things- mari... wait il get something:thinking:

point being whatever the FO decide to do, i think they've built up such a large amount of goodwill from their previous decisions that we should give them the benefit of the doubt.. what has justice done to think he can criticise them over how they handle situations?

edo783
03-23-2008, 08:38 PM
This may make more sense if we trade Sage and then pickup say John David Booty in the 3rd to groom as the QB of the future. Carry Sage, Auinn and Booty in 08 and then let Quinn go in 09 and move forward with Booty as the 2. Not sure that is what they have planed, but it has an element of sense as Booty is supposidly the prototypical WCO QB.

prostock101
03-23-2008, 08:45 PM
This may make more sense if we trade Sage and then pickup say John David Booty in the 3rd to groom as the QB of the future. Carry Sage, Auinn and Booty in 08 and then let Quinn go in 09 and move forward with Booty as the 2. Not sure that is what they have planed, but it has an element of sense as Booty is supposidly the prototypical WCO QB.

Schaub is the QB of the future. I believe that the FO wants to carry 3 QB's because of the rash of QB injuries. Trading Rosenfels would be a huge mistake.

Maddict5
03-23-2008, 08:48 PM
This may make more sense if we trade Sage and then pickup say John David Booty in the 3rd to groom as the QB of the future. Carry Sage, Auinn and Booty in 08 and then let Quinn go in 09 and move forward with Booty as the 2. Not sure that is what they have planed, but it has an element of sense as Booty is supposidly the prototypical WCO QB.

yuck! sorry i havent watched booty much but the idea of trading sage and spending a day 1 pick (im old school:specnatz: ) on anothe backup qb defeats the purpose of the exercise- keep sage and avoid the risk if thats the plan.. anything in the late rd picks (5-7) is ok for a qb in my book

J-Russ
03-23-2008, 08:49 PM
This may make more sense if we trade Sage and then pickup say John David Booty in the 3rd to groom as the QB of the future. Carry Sage, Auinn and Booty in 08 and then let Quinn go in 09 and move forward with Booty as the 2. Not sure that is what they have planed, but it has an element of sense as Booty is supposidly the prototypical WCO QB.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/qb/johndavidbooty.html

Sounds like a carbon copy of Schaub.

Errant Hothy
03-23-2008, 08:50 PM
I'm not sure that the injury situation was bad enough last year to change Kubiak's mnd about only carrying 2 QBs.

Hardcore Texan
03-23-2008, 08:53 PM
This may make more sense if we trade Sage and then pickup say John David Booty in the 3rd to groom as the QB of the future. Carry Sage, Auinn and Booty in 08 and then let Quinn go in 09 and move forward with Booty as the 2. Not sure that is what they have planed, but it has an element of sense as Booty is supposidly the prototypical WCO QB.

Just say NO to BOOTY.


This one time anyway.

Lucky
03-23-2008, 09:00 PM
Just say NO to BOOTY.

At least until the Texans make the playoffs.

Signed,
TheRealJoker

Errant Hothy
03-23-2008, 09:01 PM
At least until the Texans make the playoffs.

Signed,
TheRealJoker

ZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Errant Hothy
03-23-2008, 09:05 PM
Could there be some kind of incentive/playing time/roster make-up clause in the contract that we have yet to hear about?

Specnatz
03-23-2008, 09:12 PM
Just curious to the people whom think Quinn signed as a back-up to our back-up,

what do you ya'll think is the reason for Quinn taking less moneys and a lesser role to play here, when he could've gotten more of both elsewhere(he had 4 different choice).

Now granted Gray signed for minimum, but why is it everyone assumes he is settling for less money? In everything I read no where does it state the offers he was getting else where.

I still can't believe Gray didn't get a better offer. He visited Green Bay and Oakland. He has a trip to Buffalo lined up, but rather than take it, he's going to sign with the Texans. Does he know something about Rosenfels that we don't? No, he doesn't. He knows what we know, that the Vikings offered a third-round pick and were turned down. So far, they still don't have the quality backup they want, so perhaps they'll return with a better offer.


Even McClain says he is speculating on the fact he did not have a better offer.

I am just not a huge fan of speculations about this type of things. Minnesota is looking for a backup and they did not try real hard to sign Gray, instead they would preferr to trade for Sage. Not sure what people are seeing or I should say not seeing in Gray which makes him a not so hot commodity.

This is very interresting and could change our draft or just the amount of speculation (If that is possible).

J-Russ
03-23-2008, 09:13 PM
I just got it. Reason why he sign to minimum was because if he signed for #2 money then the other teams know for sure Sage is on his way out, which would lower his value. So they're waiting after Sage is traded, to actually put out the real number/give him the real contract, which might be around 3 years? maybe.

ATXtexanfan
03-23-2008, 09:19 PM
I just got it. Reason why he sign to minimum was because if he signed for #2 money then the other teams know for sure Sage is on his way out, which would lower his value. So they're waiting after Sage is traded, to actually put out the real number/give him the real contract, which might be around 3 years? maybe.

that's a nice theory, just might be true

J-Russ
03-23-2008, 09:20 PM
Now granted Gray signed for minimum, but why is it everyone assumes he is settling for less money? In everything I read no where does it state the offers he was getting else where.

He's still taking on a lesser role, and since its a one-year contract, wouldn't he want to be atleast a back-up and have a chance to show-off his talents and ability, hoping to get paid after his one-year end? Besides, he didn't even finish his trip, he was still schedule for Buf.

Ole Miss Texan
03-23-2008, 09:24 PM
Now I really expect Sage to be traded. Once that happens, I either expect Gray's contract to be extended, modified, or we'll wait. Gray may have been told that there's a strong likelihood Sage will be traded but do NOT say anything... b/c then again Sage can stay on the team.

I think Gray sees a great opportunity like he said. Our organization is really starting to turn some heads as a place where players want to go, mostly because of where everyone thinks the team is headed and because of the Staff they have in place. Gray could very well be thinking, I'm willing to take less money in Houston because that's where I want to be, Sage may be traded, and they may extend my contract for the higher amount I will want/get in the future at another team.

I like Sage a lot but hope we can get a good deal for him. I feel comfortable having Schaub and Gray as our QB's.

TexanSam
03-23-2008, 09:28 PM
yuck! sorry i havent watched booty much but the idea of trading sage and spending a day 1 pick (im old school:specnatz: ) on anothe backup qb defeats the purpose of the exercise- keep sage and avoid the risk if thats the plan.. anything in the late rd picks (5-7) is ok for a qb in my book

Yeah, I don't want to spend another 3rd rounder on a QB. We've gone that route once. Don't want to again.

Dcolbyt
03-23-2008, 09:43 PM
Why would he even want to vist?It seems we are set at QB.I think he is just waisting time? Is that just dumb of me to say?

The Pencil Neck
03-23-2008, 10:09 PM
Personally, it makes no sense to me. I can't believe no one offered Gray much more than we did. I can't believe he'd want to come here and be a 3.

There's got to be more in the works. I'm with Hoth-boy. I think a shoe is hovering out there and it's going to be interesting when it falls. Maybe more than a single shoe.

ObsiWan
03-23-2008, 10:11 PM
Schaub is the QB of the future. I believe that the FO wants to carry 3 QB's because of the rash of QB injuries. Trading Rosenfels would be a huge mistake.

finally, some logic.

At the end of 2006 we were stuck having to play Carr in Nov/Dec because Sage got hurt during a special teams play. Anyone recall who Sage's backup was? Anyone?

In 2007 we got pushed into desperation mode when Matt when down and Sage became the #1 and we basically had no real #2 guy who had any experience with our system.

Rick is buying some insurance. If Matt or Sage goes down we'll at least have someone who's been on board since training camp and is familiar with our offense.

Just because we have three on the roster doesn't mean we suit up three QBs every week.

And if Quinn Gray shows promise, then we extend his contract and trade Sage NEXT year.

beerlover
03-23-2008, 10:34 PM
Gray is coming here to compete for the #2 position, improve his skills under Kubiak & show the league he's a team player with talent to start given the opportunity. either way the Texans win & so will Quinn Gray- welcome to Houston :texflag:

Wolf
03-23-2008, 10:37 PM
finally, some logic.

At the end of 2006 we were stuck having to play Carr in Nov/Dec because Sage got hurt during a special teams play. Anyone recall who Sage's backup was? Anyone?

In 2007 we got pushed into desperation mode when Matt when down and Sage became the #1 and we basically had no real #2 guy who had any experience with our system.

Rick is buying some insurance. If Matt or Sage goes down we'll at least have someone who's been on board since training camp and is familiar with our offense.

Just because we have three on the roster doesn't mean we suit up three QBs every week.

And if Quinn Gray shows promise, then we extend his contract and trade Sage NEXT year.

while I agree with most, I think that IF we were to trade Sage
This offseason will be the best time, his value is at the highest it ever has been. I am not saying make the trade just to make the trade, but if a deal comes through that the Texans want, I could see them trading Sage.


two scenarios
1) Matt stays healthy.. that means Sage does't play, trade value goes down
2)Matt gets hurt again, Sage plays equally to what he did last season, we definitely don't trade Sage and we ponder on the Schaub deal (injury prone)

DocBar
03-23-2008, 10:39 PM
I hope this doesn't mean we trade Sage just for the sake of an extra pick(unless its a 1 or 2). If teams want him that bad, make them pay. We have the upper hand in negotiations unless Sage is quietly demanding a trade so he can compete for a starting job.

TexanSam
03-23-2008, 10:43 PM
It's kind of a double edged sword IMO

We have Sage, who's value has never been higher, and can be gotten for a fairly good draft pick (Vikings 3rd rounder, maybe another team will offer something more). We have plenty of needs that need to be filled on our team and getting an extra draft pick definitely helps out in filling those needs.

On the other hand, Sage is a quality backup. If Schaub had stayed healthy all of last year then it would be easier to trade Sage. But Schaub wasn't healthy and we saw what a quality backup can do for us. That's not to say Quinn Gray could be a good #2 guy, but he's unproven on our team as opposed to Sage.

It's a touch decision and I don't think there's a real right answer. I would hate to trade him, but on the other hand I would like to get a good draft pick for him as well.

Wolf
03-23-2008, 10:48 PM
It's kind of a double edged sword IMO

We have Sage, who's value has never been higher, and can be gotten for a fairly good draft pick (Vikings 3rd rounder, maybe another team will offer something more). We have plenty of needs that need to be filled on our team and getting an extra draft pick definitely helps out in filling those needs.

On the other hand, Sage is a quality backup. If Schaub had stayed healthy all of last year then it would be easier to trade Sage. But Schaub wasn't healthy and we saw what a quality backup can do for us. That's not to say Quinn Gray could be a good #2 guy, but he's unproven on our team as opposed to Sage.

It's a touch decision and I don't think there's a real right answer. I would hate to trade him, but on the other hand I would like to get a good draft pick for him as well.

tough decision.. and only time will tell
and if we trade him and draft well.. and Schaub stays healthy ,all will be forgotten, he'd be like charlie banks where (at least for me) I barely remember him on the early team

Lucky
03-23-2008, 10:59 PM
...he'd be like charlie banks where (at least for me) I barely remember him on the early team
Who could forget good ol' Charlie Banks?

edo783
03-23-2008, 11:09 PM
I suspect that there is some sort of agreement allready in place to move Sage. It was probably contengent on us finding a suitable backup. That is probably why Gray is willing to come for minimum and only a one year deal. He gets his shot to be a #2 and we move Sage for a pick(s) of some sort (could it be for a player, like a rush DE or corner instead of pick(s)?). Heck, they might even be playing this straight up and taking a 3rd QB into the system. Going to be an interesting couple of weeks.

CloakNNNdagger
03-23-2008, 11:12 PM
Who could forget good ol' Charlie Banks?

I never knew Charlie Banks to forget him..............the only Banks I knew was Tony............You guys are too young for Azlheimer's..........I think...............

Wolf
03-23-2008, 11:12 PM
Who could forget good ol' Charlie Banks?

wow, I read that and went :thud:

see I already forgot about
Tony Banks :specnatz:

DBCooper
03-24-2008, 12:08 AM
Maybe they trade Schaub and keep Sage/Gray.

I crack myself up.

Sage's days are numbered. He has value right now and Smith will get something for it. He also got a steal on a decent backup.

The old regime is dead.

ChampionTexan
03-24-2008, 02:35 AM
On one hand, I've got to believe that Kubiak recognizes the value of a backup QB that can step in when necessary and keep his team competitive - I mean, after all, that's what Kubes was his entire NFL playing career (oh yeah, and there's that whole 4-1 thing for Sage as a starter). Therefore, there's no way Sage gets traded.

On the other hand, I'm also pretty sure that he's got enough of an ego to believe that he can spin gold out of straw again, and turn Quinn Gray into a top-notch backup QB. Whether he believes his (and Rick Smith's) eye for talent saw something in Sage that others didn't/couldn't, or whether he believes his and Shanny Jr's. coaching/tutoring turned Sage into something others didn't/couldn't (or a combination of both), I would be pretty surprised if he's not absolutely convinced that he can't make history repeat itself. Therefore, Sage is as good as gone.

Perhaps backup QB's are just products of the system Kubiak runs much like you hear in regard to RB's and O-Linemen.

TEXANS84
03-24-2008, 08:34 AM
610am just reported Quinn Gray is going to sign a 1 year, 650K deal this afternoon with the Texans.

TEXANS84
03-24-2008, 08:48 AM
Barring unforeseen complications, former Jacksonville Jaguars quarterback Quinn Gray will sign a one-year deal for $645,000 with the Texans today, giving them three veterans at the most important position on the team.

"My agent (Drew Rosenhaus) has a one-year deal in place. We've been talking on the phone, and now I'm going to meet face-to-face with coach (Gary) Kubiak and coach (offensive coordinator Kyle) Shanahan. I'm excited about it."


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5641676.html

Kaiser Toro
03-24-2008, 09:02 AM
Pure smokescreen on keeping 3 QBs in my opinion as Sage or Gray will be gone before training camp.

Kubiak gets the most out of his 52 and Gibbs and Rhodes are going to want bodies due to the injuires their units have endured over the years and the question marks that remain.

We ain't keeping three QBs, unless Kubiak was wondering out in Buffalo Bayou and had a peyote inspired vision quest of Doug Flutie, Clint Longley and Frank Reich.

nunusguy
03-24-2008, 09:17 AM
Pure smokescreen on keeping 3 QBs in my opinion as Sage or Gray will be gone before training camp.

But that would mean the acquisition of Gray would certainly be no smokescreen if they deal SR after signing Gray.

Thorn
03-24-2008, 09:17 AM
I also don't see them keeping three QBs on the active squad. They had better get something more than a single 3rd round pick for Sage, or I'm not gonna like it. Not that that would make any difference. LOL

Polo
03-24-2008, 09:17 AM
Why would Gray sign a low $ (by back-up QB standards) contract to come here under the umbrella of being the 3rd stinger when he could have just as likely signed with GB, Oak, or Buff for real back-up money (say a contract similar to Sage's)?

If he is here to be the back-up and we complete the Sage trade to Minn, not only will the Texans have pick-ed up an extra draft pick but they will also have generated some extra cap room (I think). It just seems like a scenario that would be to good to be true.

The easier scenario to believe is that Gray was signed to be the 3rd stringer.

Well...

One thing that I thought was interesting was that the guy has never left Florida...

GB, Oak, and Buff have pretty cold climates...

Some guys just absolutely hate playing in cold weather and would rather not play more than a game or two a year in that kind of weather...maybe Houston's weather had a little something to do with his decision...From the get go it seemed like we were HIS #1 option...

I don't know why thinking Gray came here as a third stringer is the easier scenario to believe because the Texans have shown to be kinda loyal to their players (to a certain degree)...I think that the Texans would like an extra pick, and I think Sage would like a legit chance to start....I also don't see Kubes carrying three QB's...

It makes no sense to go into a season planning for all your QB's to get injured...If that were the case, and we DID have to go with our third string QB, we will probably be in bad shape regardless....

Honestly, I really can't see the logic in carrying three veteran QB's like that...If Matt and whoever the second stringer is gets hurt, was it really worth the extra roster spot when we could have carried an extra WR or TE, or RB, or LB, or DB vs. going out and getting a Craig Nall or someone not much worse than Quinn Gray ?

Polo
03-24-2008, 09:19 AM
But that would mean the acquisition of Gray would certainly be no smokescreen if they deal SR after signing Gray.

The smokescren is keeping three QBs

Kaiser Toro
03-24-2008, 09:20 AM
But that would mean the acquisition of Gray would certainly be no smokescreen if they deal SR after signing Gray.

No, but saying you are keeping three when it goes against philosophy is analogous to this

http://southdakotapolitics.blogs.com/south_dakota_politics/images/cheech__chong_4.jpg

Lucky
03-24-2008, 09:27 AM
Pure smokescreen on keeping 3 QBs in my opinion as Sage or Gray will be gone before training camp.
I'm wondering now if there is another team in play for Sage? Green Bay still needs a backup. If the Bills trade Losman, they'll need one too. Oakland seems serious about contending next season, and Russell doesn't have a vet backup.

The Vikings still seem to be the most logical team, because their HC Brad Childress might have starting QB Tarvaris Jackson on a short leash. And they have that extra 3rd round pick. As far as the other teams mentioned, the Pack has an extra 2nd round pick acquired from the Browns. That may make them willing to trade their 3rd. Oakland and Buffalo do not have any additional selections in the 1st 3 rounds.

Peyote in Buffalo Bayou? Looks too toxic for me to investigate 1st hand, so I'll just take your word for it. :)

beerlover
03-24-2008, 09:39 AM
The Vikings still seem to be the most logical team, because their HC Brad Childress might have starting QB Tarvaris Jackson on a short leash. And they have that extra 3rd round pick.

not buying Tarvars Jackson on a short leash, love his upside will suffer bumps along the road as he develops. don't see Sage playing similar style.

As far as the other teams mentioned, the Pack has an extra 2nd round pick acquired from the Browns. That may make them willing to trade their 3rd.

best fit for Sage, so that would be the Packers 2nd not the Browns 2nd right?

nevermind just checked & not much difference #56 vs #60

Oakland and Buffalo do not have any additional selections in the 1st 3 rounds.

Gray would be a better fit in Oakland, probably smart however & doesn't like the direction of the franchise. Buffalo too darn cold & far north.

Lucky
03-24-2008, 09:51 AM
not buying Tarvars Jackson on a short leash, love his upside will suffer bumps along the road as he develops. don't see Sage playing similar style.
I'm thinking that a QB who threw 9 TDs to 12 INTs with a 70 QB rating might be on a short leash. But that's just me. And the Vikings run a WCO, similar to the one Sage has played in the past 2 seasons.

Even if Childress is sold on Jackson, he still may covet Rosenfels. The Vikings were 1-5 in games Tarvaris missed, or couldn't finish, due to injury. That cost the Vikings a playoff spot.

beerlover
03-24-2008, 09:56 AM
I'm thinking that a QB who threw 9 TDs to 12 INTs with a 70 QB rating might be on a short leash. But that's just me. And the Vikings run a WCO, similar to the one Sage has played in the past 2 seasons.

Even if Childress is sold on Jackson, he still may covet Rosenfels. The Vikings were 1-5 in games Tarvaris missed, or couldn't finish, due to injury. That cost the Vikings a playoff spot.

this is also why they have addressed the WR position in FA & I have them taking DeSean Jackson in the 1st rd. that should help improve those numbers :specnatz:

Hottoddie
03-24-2008, 10:07 AM
I'm wondering now if there is another team in play for Sage? Green Bay still needs a backup. If the Bills trade Losman, they'll need one too. Oakland seems serious about contending next season, and Russell doesn't have a vet backup.

The Vikings still seem to be the most logical team, because their HC Brad Childress might have starting QB Tarvaris Jackson on a short leash. And they have that extra 3rd round pick. As far as the other teams mentioned, the Pack has an extra 2nd round pick acquired from the Browns. That may make them willing to trade their 3rd. Oakland and Buffalo do not have any additional selections in the 1st 3 rounds.

Peyote in Buffalo Bayou? Looks too toxic for me to investigate 1st hand, so I'll just take your word for it. :)

Atlanta's QB situation is still up in the air. Even if they take one of the top QB's, do they really want to have their entire season depending upon his success, or lack thereof? Bringing in a veteran like Sage to allow them to groom his replacement might be just what the doctor ordered.

For what it's worth, they've got three 2nds & their 3rd (#68) is a lot higher than Minnesota's (#82).

El Tejano
03-24-2008, 10:09 AM
finally, some logic.

At the end of 2006 we were stuck having to play Carr in Nov/Dec because Sage got hurt during a special teams play. Anyone recall who Sage's backup was? Anyone?

In 2007 we got pushed into desperation mode when Matt when down and Sage became the #1 and we basically had no real #2 guy who had any experience with our system.

Rick is buying some insurance. If Matt or Sage goes down we'll at least have someone who's been on board since training camp and is familiar with our offense.

Just because we have three on the roster doesn't mean we suit up three QBs every week.

And if Quinn Gray shows promise, then we extend his contract and trade Sage NEXT year.

Then explain Boyd already being on the roster and he was here last year. Why would you need to pick up another 3rd string QB. Maybe Kubiak agrees with Casserly about never having too many QBs.

Or this could mean Boyd can be packaged now?

nunusguy
03-24-2008, 10:10 AM
I'm just saying that signing Gray makes it a real possiblity that Smith/Kubiak pull the deal on a Sage trade, an option that most people felt was highly unlikely before they picked up the now former Jaqs QB. Lets face it, Kubiak might have thought he was watching the black John Elway in the game last year aginst the Texans. He was real impressive, and they gave up a ton for another QB who they saw nothing of in person like they did Gray.
Who knows what kind of deal they might be considering, and as somebody said there could be other, may multiple interested parties besides the Vikes ?
There could even be a another player involved, say another teams OLineman or DB ?

Goldensilence
03-24-2008, 10:16 AM
I'm thinking that a QB who threw 9 TDs to 12 INTs with a 70 QB rating might be on a short leash. But that's just me. And the Vikings run a WCO, similar to the one Sage has played in the past 2 seasons.

Even if Childress is sold on Jackson, he still may covet Rosenfels. The Vikings were 1-5 in games Tarvaris missed, or couldn't finish, due to injury. That cost the Vikings a playoff spot.

I think Tavaris is on a short leash. My concern with Jackson is later in the season teams weren't afraid to stack the box for the running game and try to make Jackson throw to win the game. He didn't make the best of decisions on throwing then.Has upside but is still really raw and leaves me to wonder if he's a LOT more raw then Childress originally thought going into TC and Pre-season last year.

I do think they need to bring someone in behind him that has experience and could possibly teach him a bit. Is Sage that guy? Seems that is who the Vikings want. With Gray onboard now I think things have gotten very interesting in this trade rumor.

There have been FA Qb's come and gone yet the Vikings haven't seemed to take much interest. Both sides seem willing to deal now.

da Bull
03-24-2008, 10:32 AM
Who is Rosenfels' agent and does he have any connection to Drew Rosenhaus (Gray's Agent)? They might both be trying hard to shop Sage, as both will benefit. Especially since the Texans let Carr go without demanding a pick, as he was a good soldier. Sage has also been a good soldier....and played better also.

NitroGSXR
03-24-2008, 10:32 AM
Something really bothers me about Quinn Gray.

The Jacksonville Jaguars signed Quinn Gray.

The Jacksonville Jaguars are apparently in the draft market for a QB. This is pure assumption on my part but they DID send their QB coach to Delaware's pro day. It kind of tells me that they're looking for a QB. Now I did notice the dates and am not sure what they mean. I don't know when they signed Lemon or anything like that.


Jaguars | Shula attended Delaware's Pro Day
Sun, 23 Mar 2008 23:46:22 -0700
Gil Brandt, of NFL.com (http://www.kffl.com/link/156), reports Jacksonville Jaguars (http://www.kffl.com/team/20/nfl) quarterbacks coach Mike Shula (http://www.kffl.com/player/16287/nfl) attended the University of Delaware's Pro Day March 7.

Quinn Gray has a career day in the final game and is promply shown to the door by the Jaguars.

I don't know... I'm not exactly having warm fuzzy feelings in my stomach about Gray. I'm definitely on the 'sell Sage while his value is high' bandwagon but would have no qualms keeping him either.

It doesn't matter. Quinn Gray is going to get a ton of garbage playing time. See, Schaub is going to play all 16 games and he's going to singlehandedly show the Patriots how perfection is done.
:fans:

HOU-TEX
03-24-2008, 10:37 AM
Maybe Sage himself has expressed his thoughts on wanting a starting position. Everyone's saying what the Texans should/shouldn't do. What if it's Sage pushing the issue upon the Texans? He has stated before he wanted to be a starter, so maybe he thinks now is his best chance.

Who knows? It's just something else to toss around. :cool:

HoustonFrog
03-24-2008, 11:10 AM
Maybe Sage himself has expressed his thoughts on wanting a starting position. Everyone's saying what the Texans should/shouldn't do. What if it's Sage pushing the issue upon the Texans? He has stated before he wanted to be a starter, so maybe he thinks now is his best chance.

Who knows? It's just something else to toss around. :cool:

I agree. No matter what is said, all of these guys have some sort of ego and want to be "the man." Unless you are a Jason Garrett type who is just uses as a nice backup. All in all I love these moves. I'd like to get a 2nd rounder somewhere...3rd if it is Gray even. I think you are right about Sage though and he might think that this is one last push to parlay last year into starting somewhere.

Hardcore Texan
03-24-2008, 11:12 AM
Pure smokescreen on keeping 3 QBs in my opinion as Sage or Gray will be gone before training camp.

Kubiak gets the most out of his 52 and Gibbs and Rhodes are going to want bodies due to the injuires their units have endured over the years and the question marks that remain.

We ain't keeping three QBs, unless Kubiak was wondering out in Buffalo Bayou and had a peyote inspired vision quest of Doug Flutie, Clint Longley and Frank Reich.

Exactly. Couple this with the way Gray played last year when filling in for Garrard. He didn't look like a #3 to me, he looked a lot like Sage, definite solid #2 who could start when your #1 goes down with very little drop off. There is no way we can carry these 3 QB's.

Think about it, Sage is in demand right now, we can trade him for real value. We bring in Gray to replace Sage, they are both solid QB's and are great back-ups. Here's the head scratching part, why didn't Minnesota make a play for Mr. Gray instead of giving up the hypothethical 3rd Rounder.....or there is another suitor for Sage, either way great move by Rick, yet again.

Hottoddie
03-24-2008, 11:20 AM
Here's a wild idea that has no basis or thought process what so ever. If Minnesota wants Sage so badly & we need a LT so badly, why not trade Sage for the troubled Bryant McKinnie? I realize it's not a fair swap, but if we could work out the particulars, would you consider it? Is he salvageable? According to this article, his cap hit wouldn't be that bad for a starting LT & Sage's $1.85 million cap hit would offset 25% of it. I'm not sure how bonus money would be transferred, but that could possibly further reduce the cost. Not likely to even be discussed, but it's food for thought.

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_8654810?nclick_check=1

One of the deterrents for clubs to release high-priced veterans is the salary cap. But if the Vikings cut or trade McKinnie, their salary-cap implications would be minimal. Not only is the club approximately $17.5 million under the cap, McKinnie's current cap number is $7.4 million. Releasing or trading him would cost the club only an additional $1.4 million.

If the Vikings are serious about moving him, they probably would have several suitors. Although he could face a suspension because of this incident ó NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has the authority to punish players, even without guilty pleas ó McKinnie plays a high-demand position, he's 28, he's extremely durable (87 consecutive starts), and he's relatively cheap (his base salary is less than $5 million through 2011). In fact, there has been speculation that the Vikings have discussed a trade with the Carolina Panthers. Among the players rumored to be discussed: defensive end Julius Peppers and offensive tackle Jordan Gross. The offensive tackle class also is considered fairly strong in the NFL draft.

Lucky
03-24-2008, 11:24 AM
Who is Rosenfels' agent and does he have any connection to Drew Rosenhaus (Gray's Agent)?
Don't know Sage's agent. Rosenfels is not listed as a Rosenhaus client (http://www.rosenhaussports.com/athletes.php).


Quinn Gray has a career day in the final game and is promply shown to the door by the Jaguars.
I think that Gray moving on may have been a mutual decision. Five seasons is a long time to spend in an organization, and not become a starter. Plus, Cleo Lemon is a similar QB to Jags starter David Garrad. The Jags won't have to put in separate game plans when the backup comes into the game.

Goldensilence
03-24-2008, 11:27 AM
Exactly. Couple this with the way Gray played last year when filling in for Garrard. He didn't look like a #3 to me, he looked a lot like Sage, definite solid #2 who could start when your #1 goes down with very little drop off. There is no way we can carry these 3 QB's.

Think about it, Sage is in demand right now, we can trade him for real value. We bring in Gray to replace Sage, they are both solid QB's and are great back-ups. Here's the head scratching part, why didn't Minnesota make a play for Mr. Gray instead of giving up the hypothethical 3rd Rounder.....or there is another suitor for Sage, either way great move by Rick, yet again.

I think someone else pointed out that maybe Gray didn't have a huge interest in playing for a cold weather team. I also think With Favre Retiring Greenbay is in need for a solid backup behind Rodgers. ATL now has 3 second rounders and to my knowledge no one they are really comfortable with starting. A mere one second for someone who might have a shot at soldifying the position while they groom someone long term might be a steal in that position. I think there could now be multiple offers for Sage hence signing Gray. We could very well get a second which we could use.

Hottoddie
03-24-2008, 11:29 AM
Hehe, playing the devil's advocate, wouldn't it be a total shocker if it's Schaub that's being shopped? :secret: :scare: :stirpot:

barrett
03-24-2008, 11:33 AM
this is no doubt a weird move. everyone has there speculation knob turned to 11. the thing that really makes this a head scratcher is need. of all the teams in the league that needed a quarterback we're near the bottom of the list. of everyone's scenarios, there are two that seem to be realistic.

A. a deal for sage is already lined up and the gray signing is with the understanding that the sage deal happens.

B. it was gray's choice. for whatever reason (call it the weather) it was a personal choice that he wanted to be here in houston.

other than those two scenarios, it's hard to find any logic behind any of it.

either way, i can't wait until the draft is over so the speculation nation can subside.

Ole Miss Texan
03-24-2008, 11:34 AM
Hehe, playing the devil's advocate, wouldn't it be a total shocker if it's Schaub that's being shopped? :secret: :scare: :stirpot:

I'll take Atlanta's 2nd rounders and a swap of our firsts if they want.

badboy
03-24-2008, 11:45 AM
Why would Gray sign a low $ (by back-up QB standards) contract to come here under the umbrella of being the 3rd stinger when he could have just as likely signed with GB, Oak, or Buff for real back-up money (say a contract similar to Sage's)?

If he is here to be the back-up and we complete the Sage trade to Minn, not only will the Texans have pick-ed up an extra draft pick but they will also have generated some extra cap room (I think). It just seems like a scenario that would be to good to be true.

The easier scenario to believe is that Gray was signed to be the 3rd stringer.March 24th article by McClain in which Gray said things had not gone in free agency that he had agent had planned. Maybe other teams had not offered much better. He did have another team (Buffalo I think) scheduled but hoped he'd not have to visit there.

Hottoddie
03-24-2008, 11:45 AM
I'll take Atlanta's 2nd rounders and a swap of our firsts if they want.

If Rick can pull that one off, I've got some money for him to invest in the market for me. Two 2nd's & a swap of 1st's (move down 2 spots) in exchange for three 2nd's & a swap of 1st's (move up 15 spots) for a one year rental. Not a bad return if I must say so myself. :D

TK_Gamer
03-24-2008, 12:09 PM
I honestly think Houston is simply keeping it's options open. I believe they recieved an offer for Sage that they were not comfortable with from the Vikings, but I think they may have recieved other inquiries that prompted them to look into the possiblities for improving the team , wich lead to the possiblity of aquiring Gray to open their options up even further. It could also be possible that the Vikings wanted something more etched in stone and prior to the draft, and having someone like Gray around was the only way a pre-draft deal could go down. I don't think they are locked into any of this the way some here are hedging. I really don't think the Texan's front office is that compulsive. If you look at all the moves they have made to this point in the off-season, you can surmise that they are systematicly increasing their talent pool, upgrading where they can and leaving them in a very enviable position come draft day. They have covered several positions of need, in talent if not only depth and have spent very little cap doing it. The bummer to all this is , that doesnt guarantee them success on draft day, only incereases their odds some. Still smart moves though IMHO.

badboy
03-24-2008, 12:22 PM
No, but saying you are keeping three when it goes against philosophy is analogous to this

http://southdakotapolitics.blogs.com/south_dakota_politics/images/cheech__chong_4.jpgThat is the biggest egg roll I've ever seen. Who is the Chinese guy holding it? Can you pass an egg roll?

Mr. White
03-24-2008, 12:24 PM
Seems like this is the way Rick Smith does business when it comes to QB's.

They didn't get rid of Carr until they had Schaub locked up. I imagine that's the same way that they'll handle the 2nd stringer as well.

This wouldn't go down unless Gray knew that he had a chance to play here.

TexansLucky13
03-24-2008, 12:41 PM
March 24th article by McClain in which Gray said things had not gone in free agency that he had agent had planned. Maybe other teams had not offered much better. He did have another team (Buffalo I think) scheduled but hoped he'd not have to visit there.

He signed the veteran minimum. It's impossible for another team to have offered him anything less.

I believe that Kubiak wants Rosenfels to be in a position of success, and that he would give him the chance if he were able. We have Schaub, and Rosenfels can never take that spot due to the truckload of money we are paying him.

I would love to see Rosenfels start for another team. He deserves it. Now that we have Gray I have no problems with it.

El Tejano
03-24-2008, 12:44 PM
What if we end up trading Boyd for a lower round pick?

Wolf
03-24-2008, 12:50 PM
That is the biggest egg roll I've ever seen. Who is the Chinese guy holding it? Can you pass an egg roll?

"it is labrador man"

badboy
03-24-2008, 01:08 PM
Who is our new starter selected in 2nd round to be?

Lucky
03-24-2008, 01:13 PM
What if we end up trading Boyd for a lower round pick?
I think Rick Smith should be awarded NFL Executive of the Year if he can turn a QB who has never thrown a pass in a regular season game into a draft pick.

El Tejano
03-24-2008, 01:14 PM
If anything, what we need to do is look to Rick Smith and staff and give them a round of applause. Even if nobody goes anywhere, they basically increased the level of talent at the QB position which is the most important position on a football team.

Also, they've allowed The Texans to be fully prepared for any possible scenarios come draft day. Now The Texans wont be caught slipping if a great trade scenario comes about and we will not be handcuffed on our ability to manuever.

Honoring Earl 34
03-24-2008, 01:20 PM
They latched onto a commodity .

Lucky
03-24-2008, 02:11 PM
I'm wondering now if there is another team in play for Sage? Green Bay still needs a backup. If the Bills trade Losman, they'll need one too.
Chris Brown of buffalobills.com (http://buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?post_id=3192) thinks this idea is peachy keen. But, he thinks Sage is worth no more than a 4th round pick. :(

QB ROSENFELS AVAILABLE?: With Houston reportedly set to sign Jacksonville free agent QB Quinn Gray, their current #2 QB Sage Rosenfels is said to be on the trading block. While there are those in Houston who don't like that idea (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5640711.html), I like him a lot as an option for the Bills as a #2 assuming J.P. Losman isn't serving in that role. Rosenfels appeared in 9 games last year, starting five and put up an impressive 84.8 passer rating despite playing on a roster lacking talent and no #1 receiver with Andre Johnson out most of the season with an injury. And by the way he also has that colossal comeback win over the Bills while serving as the backup QB for the Dolphins in 2005. The Texans are reportedly asking for a 2nd or 3rd round pick, but no one is giving that up for a backup. He could probably be had for a 4th, so if the decision is made to move Losman in one deal, making another to acquire Rosenfels would be a solid move.

CloakNNNdagger
03-24-2008, 02:13 PM
Exactly. Couple this with the way Gray played last year when filling in for Garrard. He didn't look like a #3 to me, he looked a lot like Sage, definite solid #2 who could start when your #1 goes down with very little drop off. There is no way we can carry these 3 QB's.

Think about it, Sage is in demand right now, we can trade him for real value. We bring in Gray to replace Sage, they are both solid QB's and are great back-ups. Here's the head scratching part, why didn't Minnesota make a play for Mr. Gray instead of giving up the hypothethical 3rd Rounder.....or there is another suitor for Sage, either way great move by Rick, yet again.

Here's a wild idea that has no basis or thought process what so ever. If Minnesota wants Sage so badly & we need a LT so badly, why not trade Sage for the troubled Bryant McKinnie? I realize it's not a fair swap, but if we could work out the particulars, would you consider it? Is he salvageable? According to this article, his cap hit wouldn't be that bad for a starting LT & Sage's $1.85 million cap hit would offset 25% of it. I'm not sure how bonus money would be transferred, but that could possibly further reduce the cost. Not likely to even be discussed, but it's food for thought.

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_8654810?nclick_check=1

One of the deterrents for clubs to release high-priced veterans is the salary cap. But if the Vikings cut or trade McKinnie, their salary-cap implications would be minimal. Not only is the club approximately $17.5 million under the cap, McKinnie's current cap number is $7.4 million. Releasing or trading him would cost the club only an additional $1.4 million.

If the Vikings are serious about moving him, they probably would have several suitors. Although he could face a suspension because of this incident — NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has the authority to punish players, even without guilty pleas — McKinnie plays a high-demand position, he's 28, he's extremely durable (87 consecutive starts), and he's relatively cheap (his base salary is less than $5 million through 2011). In fact, there has been speculation that the Vikings have discussed a trade with the Carolina Panthers. Among the players rumored to be discussed: defensive end Julius Peppers and offensive tackle Jordan Gross. The offensive tackle class also is considered fairly strong in the NFL draft.

This isn't McKinnie's 1st brush with the law [LINK] (http://kstp.com/article/stories/S356873.shtml?cat=10498)
..........and for the type of problems he has demonstrated, it's not likely to be his last.

McKinnie has faced legal charges before. He was involved in the "Love Boat" scandal in 2005, pleading guilty to misdemeanor disorderly conduct. The NFL fined him $41,000 dollars for that on September 9, 2006, a day before he signed a reported 7-year, $48-million dollar contract extension. If convicted for this latest arrest, the NFL's personal conduct policy makes it clear:

Any Covered Person convicted of or admitting to a criminal violation (including a plea to a lesser included offense; a plea of nob contendere or no contest; or the acceptance of a diversionary program, deferred adjudication, disposition of supervision, or similar arrangement) will be subject to discipline as determined by the Commissioner. Such discipline may include a fine, suspension without pay and/or banishment from the League. Any Covered Person convicted of or admitting to a second criminal violation will be suspended without pay or banished for a period of time to be determined by the Commissioner.

Besides, somehow, I don't think that the Texans would be interested in taking on the risk of a big contract (and it will ultimately be a big contract), with impending suspension, and justifiable fear of ban following a 3rd incident due to not being able to confine "violence" to the field.

TexansLucky13
03-24-2008, 02:13 PM
Chris Brown of buffalobills.com (http://buffalobills.com/blog/index.jsp?post_id=3192) thinks this idea is peachy keen. But, he thinks Sage is worth no more than a 4th round pick. :(

"No one is giving that up for a backup"

Uhm... hello? Matt Schaub?

alphajoker
03-24-2008, 02:31 PM
Gray is officially a Texan. Welcome aboard.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5643930.html

Texans_Chick
03-24-2008, 02:32 PM
"No one is giving that up for a backup"

Uhm... hello? Matt Schaub?

You have a great point.

I think the national media tends to downplay how good Rosenfels is and the local media is a little delusional.

I'm still amazed by this sentence in Richard Justice's missive on Rosenfels:

The Texans cannot and must not trade Sage Rosenfels. It's not even a close call.

Wha?

Basically, it's a question of respective value.

1. Is Gray good enough to be coached up to be a respectable backup? I think the answer is yes. Justice dismissed Gray as just someone who was replaced with Cleo Lemon, but Rosenfels was in similar positions with the Redskins and later the Dolphins.

2. Is someone going to give the Texans enough value to let lose of Rosenfels? The team he would be going to would be getting a relatively cheap contract, so in some ways Rosenfels' value is higher than Schaub's in that regard.

I think that value is worth more than a third round pick in a market of really crappy quarterbacks.

Here's what I wrote on this stuff:

Quinn Gray to the Texans: Where Will Sage Rosenfels Go? (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/03/24/quinn-gray-to-the-texans-where-will-sage-rosenfels-go/)

TexansLucky13
03-24-2008, 02:45 PM
Basically, it's a question of respective value.

1. Is Gray good enough to be coached up to be a respectable backup? I think the answer is yes. Justice dismissed Gray as just someone who was replaced with Cleo Lemon, but Rosenfels was in similar positions with the Redskins and later the Dolphins.

2. Is someone going to give the Texans enough value to let lose of Rosenfels? The team he would be going to would be getting a relatively cheap contract, so in some ways Rosenfels' value is higher than Schaub's in that regard.

I think that value is worth more than a third round pick in a market of really crappy quarterbacks.

Here's what I wrote on this stuff:

Quinn Gray to the Texans: Where Will Sage Rosenfels Go? (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/03/24/quinn-gray-to-the-texans-where-will-sage-rosenfels-go/)

Great article and good points.

So here is a new question I have.

Rick Smith may say that we want to carry three veteran QBs, but most Texans fans know that that hasn't been the case. Is Rick playing some smoke and mirrors to prevent Rosenfels from losing trade value, or is he serious about having all three?

Malloy
03-24-2008, 02:56 PM
Great article and good points.

So here is a new question I have.

Rick Smith may say that we want to carry three veteran QBs, but most Texans fans know that that hasn't been the case. Is Rick playing some smoke and mirrors to prevent Rosenfels from losing trade value, or is he serious about having all three?

There are many veteran QB's, it does not neccesarily has to be Quinn and Rosenfels. I smell a trade coming, and for Rosenfels sake, I hope he gets the opportunity to go somewhere and show his worth, he deserves a shot at it.

Seriously, if Kitna can (and I kinda like Kitna), Rosenfels should have a chance too :)

Texan in Japan
03-24-2008, 02:56 PM
I believe Sage will be traded. It might not happen until the draft, but more than likely he's already got several possible buyers. Signing Gray gives us protection and leverage. We can wait for the best possible deal and then execute.

I really like Rick Smith's style and savvy. The three QB rhetoric keeps Sage's value up, but also lets prospective teams know that first buyer to meet our price will get themselves a darn good QB and leader.

Daddy likes!

Honoring Earl 34
03-24-2008, 03:16 PM
Great article and good points.

So here is a new question I have.

Rick Smith may say that we want to carry three veteran QBs, but most Texans fans know that that hasn't been the case. Is Rick playing some smoke and mirrors to prevent Rosenfels from losing trade value, or is he serious about having all three?

This is a good draft for the Texans ... OL , DBs , RBs seem to be in abundance . They could use more picks .

TexansLucky13
03-24-2008, 03:17 PM
This is a good draft for the Texans ... OL , DBs , RBs seem to be in abundance . They could use more picks .

I definitely agree. Given Kubes and Rick's track record, I would prefer a 2nd rounder or two 3rds over a reliable backup.

Goldensilence
03-24-2008, 03:22 PM
"No one is giving that up for a backup"

Uhm... hello? Matt Schaub?

It's my understanding Most teams are interested in him as a BACKUP.

We gave Schaub the deal because we wanted him as a starter. Not pointing at you but there is some major revisionist history in the Sage for President crowd.

Sage played Solid for the most part but not spectacular last year. I still think the David Carr effect is still not out of some fans system.

Let me ask this: put in a different position would anyone here be okay trading a third away for a perspective backup quarterback?

Honoring Earl 34
03-24-2008, 03:24 PM
I definitely agree. Given Kubes and Rick's track record, I would prefer a 2nd rounder or two 3rds over a reliable backup.

I think the Texans need young a OL to get as much of Gibbs as possible . Of course they need a CB probably the most but another pick gives you options .

Polo
03-24-2008, 03:29 PM
Let me ask this: put in a different position would anyone here be okay trading a third away for a perspective backup quarterback?

If my starting QB was "willy the fool", then yeah...

*I don't think Jackson is "willie the fool". Actually I think he can be a really good QB in this leauge. At the same time, I wouldn't rest my whole season on his shoulders.

Sage is not guaranteed to be a starter anymore than he's guaranteed to be a back-up if traded.

CloakNNNdagger
03-24-2008, 03:33 PM
Sage isnít going anywhere without our #1 QB proving he can remain healthy, AND our #3 QB proving himself in our system on our team.

TexansLucky13
03-24-2008, 03:35 PM
Sage isnít going anywhere without our #1 QB proving he can remain healthy, AND our #3 QB proving himself in our system on our team.

We'll see about that.

Honoring Earl 34
03-24-2008, 03:42 PM
We'll see about that.

I think they'd do it as much for Sage to get a shot as a starter .

Well ... we could trade Matt back to Atlanta for Oakland and Atlanta's #2 picks .

TEXANS84
03-24-2008, 03:52 PM
Deal completed


As expected, free agent quarterback Quinn Gray signed a one-year contract with the Texans today.

Gray, who played his first five seasons with Jacksonville, signed a one-year deal for the $605,000 minimum and a $40,000 signing bonus.


Gray was 2-2 as a starter last season, including victories over Tampa Bay and Tennessee and losses to New Orleans and the Texans.

Gray arrived in Houston on Sunday and he is spending today at Reliant Stadium, meeting with head coach Gary Kubiak and offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan.

Signing Gray gives the Texans three experienced quarterbacks. Matt Schaub is firmly entrenched as the starter. Sage Rosenfels has proven to be a solid backup. If a team offers a second round pick for Rosenfels, having Gray would make it easier for the Texans to make the trade.

Minnesota offered a third round pick for Rosenfels but the Texans turned it down.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5643930.html

ToxicButt
03-24-2008, 03:55 PM
Is there anything that prevents the following scenario:

R Smith: We want Gray. We might deal Sage Rosenfels, we might not. Depends.

Rosenhaus: No. Gray wants to play; to be QB2.

R Smith: [Jedi mind trick]. . . Look, it's a 1 year deal. Kubes is freaking Yoda when it comes to grooming QB's. Worst case, your guy gets better. Best case, we deal Sage and he's QB2.

Rosenhause: [eyes glazed over] Um. . . Uh . . . Wait, where was I. Right, Gray wants money and wants to be QB2.

R Smith: [Last Jedi Mind trick] . . . If we deal Rosenfels, we're rework Gray's contract and up it to a Million to pay him like a QB2.

Rosenhous: Um. Ok.

========

Seriously, without the Jedi mind trick stuff, can we just redo Gray's deal if we trade Rosenfels.

CloakNNNdagger
03-24-2008, 04:09 PM
Is there anything that prevents the following scenario:

R Smith: We want Gray. We might deal Sage Rosenfels, we might not. Depends.

Rosenhaus: No. Gray wants to play; to be QB2.

R Smith: [Jedi mind trick]. . . Look, it's a 1 year deal. Kubes is freaking Yoda when it comes to grooming QB's. Worst case, your guy gets better. Best case, we deal Sage and he's QB2.

Rosenhause: [eyes glazed over] Um. . . Uh . . . Wait, where was I. Right, Gray wants money and wants to be QB2.

R Smith: [Last Jedi Mind trick] . . . If we deal Rosenfels, we're rework Gray's contract and up it to a Million to pay him like a QB2.

Rosenhous: Um. Ok.

========

Seriously, without the Jedi mind trick stuff, can we just redo Gray's deal if we trade Rosenfels.

I say we deal Rosenhaus.:elle:

Porky
03-24-2008, 04:22 PM
Another great move by Rick Smith. That guy is a future GM of the year candidate.

I have come down strongly against trading Sage. One of the main reasons was we would have an unknown at backup QB. Granted we don't know how well Gray will play in comparison to Sage. However, before I would have been hesitant to make a trade no matter the compensation.

I am now much more ameniable to a trade although I still lean very slightly against. If I am Smith, I let it be known that the rate is a 2nd rd pick, and the first team that offers me that wins. And then I wait. For a 2nd I pull the trigger.

If the offer never comes, then we go into camp with Schaub, Sage and Quinn Gray. That's not a bad thing either. In other words this is a win-win scenerio. There really is no downside. Remember, last year when Matt went down, we had no reliable backup. Gray would give us that.

Considering that they are paying him a one yr min deal, it makes me think that this is wide-open. In other words, they trade Sage, they will give him a long term deal at years end. If not, Gray can re-up with us, or seek a long term deal elsewhere. Again, it's all win-win for player and team.

Excellent deal, and kudos to Smith, Kubes, etc. :texflag:

GuerillaBlack
03-24-2008, 04:28 PM
This deal is for chump change (in NFL standards). Not bad.

Texans_Chick
03-24-2008, 04:31 PM
It's my understanding Most teams are interested in him as a BACKUP.

We gave Schaub the deal because we wanted him as a starter. Not pointing at you but there is some major revisionist history in the Sage for President crowd.

Sage played Solid for the most part but not spectacular last year. I still think the David Carr effect is still not out of some fans system.

Let me ask this: put in a different position would anyone here be okay trading a third away for a perspective backup quarterback?

There are teams out there whose starters played worse than Sage Rosenfels did last season.

Given the crappy market for developed QBs out there, I think there is some valuation between the Schaub deal and just a third round pick that the Texans may be able to get.

I think we are in the place that San Diego was last year with Michael Turner. If they get a offer that is good, they will trade him. If not, they may decide that they prefer the insurance he provides for the team.

Maddict5
03-24-2008, 04:37 PM
except SD can use turner to spell LT.. we have to wait for an injury

on the other hand, we have sage for 2 yrs not 1.. i doubt his value gets higher than now though

kiwitexansfan
03-24-2008, 04:49 PM
Another great move by Rick Smith. That guy is a future GM of the year candidate.

Excellent deal, and kudos to Smith, Kubes, etc. :texflag:

Excellent post Porky, I would of repped you but my work system seems to think something on the rep page is offensive content and it won't let me.

I agree that this is another piece of genius that Smith has put together.

Gray played pretty well when he got a chance, a huge step up from the Van Pelt experiment.

Texans_Chick
03-24-2008, 04:52 PM
except SD can use turner to spell LT.. we have to wait for an injury

on the other hand, we have sage for 2 yrs not 1.. i doubt his value gets higher than now though

The same general concept though. Insurance. If you have LT or Schaub go down, you have insurance that your season doesn't devolve into a Falcon/Dolphin-esque pile of goo. Yeah, most playoff teams don't rely on their backups, but a lot of those really awful teams have quarterbacks who go down and joke backups. Truly awful seasons aren't good for a franchise.

Rosenfels contract is attractive. Rosenfels has proven that he can move the ball, even with an offense with a wildly inconsistent running game. He's a good guy. He'd be a terrific guy to have as a starter if you draft a QB that you eventually want to groom for the starter's job.

So, with those factors, you would think you could get something for him from some of these teams whose fans are sick of ridiculously bad quarterback play.

I've never been one eager to trade Rosenfels, but having Gray on roster makes me a lot more comfortable with it.

Specnatz
03-24-2008, 04:56 PM
There are teams out there whose starters played worse than Sage Rosenfels did last season.

Given the crappy market for developed QBs out there, I think there is some valuation between the Schaub deal and just a third round pick that the Texans may be able to get.

I think we are in the place that San Diego was last year with Michael Turner. If they get a offer that is good, they will trade him. If not, they may decide that they prefer the insurance he provides for the team.

I understand the analogy but the Chargers were wanting a first and a third from what I remember. They over priced the market in terms of a running back. Honestly, I did not understand how they could not trade Turner and get something for him with in reason, not the over priced stuff.

Sage has two more years left on his contract so it is not a one and done type of deal. His contract is very cap friendly which increases his value.

I am not saying do the deal just to get something it has to be the right offer which if it was a second then it would be the right deal.

badboy
03-24-2008, 04:58 PM
We are in the driver's seat. Pressure is on Minnesota imo. My eyes get all sparkly when I think we could draft a LT,RB and a CB and still have 4th and 5th rounds for productivity AND we got a starting center for a 6th!! Come on Ricky baby show me what you got planned for that old 7th round selection. Maybe Colt Brennan?

Texans_Chick
03-24-2008, 05:10 PM
I understand the analogy but the Chargers were wanting a first and a third from what I remember. They over priced the market in terms of a running back. Honestly, I did not understand how they could not trade Turner and get something for him with in reason, not the over priced stuff.

Sage has two more years left on his contract so it is not a one and done type of deal. His contract is very cap friendly which increases his value.

I am not saying do the deal just to get something it has to be the right offer which if it was a second then it would be the right deal.

Trades are weird. What a team is publicly saying they want is not necessarily what they want. We still have a lot of time before the draft, and markets have a way of making themselves.

The Turner non-trade is a good thing if LT has issues last year and not such a great thing if he doesn't. Looking back in retrospect is a funny thing, or so says the Atlanta Falcons.

We may love a trade come draft time and regret the same trade depending on how the season plays out.

AustinJB
03-24-2008, 05:34 PM
Sage isnít going anywhere without our #1 QB proving he can remain healthy, AND our #3 QB proving himself in our system on our team.

I wouldn't feel comfortable speaking in such absolutes but that's just me. You may be right...maybe Sage isn't going anywhere, but your reasoning doesn't mean anything given recent history.

Seems like I remember some saying the same thing about Carr a year ago. Something to the effect of 'we will not get rid of Carr for an unproven back-up QB'.

Well, as we all know, not only did we get rid of him and acquire an unproven back-up, we gave up two 2nd round picks for the unproven back-up...mainly b/c of the talent evaluation of Smithiak which led them to believe Schaub was worth the risk. Now, we have this current scenario which leads many of us to believe we acquired Gray in order to deal Rosenfels. It is a risk letting go of a capable back-up, but apparently Smithiak feels that Gray can step into that role AND we can get an extra draft pick.

I guess what I'm saying is that I trust the current regime to make the correct decisions...and IMO it seems that they may be leaning towards trading Rosenfels. If so, judging by our front office's track record, I believe they will make the correct call.:twocents:

DocBar
03-24-2008, 05:34 PM
The same general concept though. Insurance. If you have LT or Schaub go down, you have insurance that your season doesn't devolve into a Falcon/Dolphin-esque pile of goo. Yeah, most playoff teams don't rely on their backups, but a lot of those really awful teams have quarterbacks who go down and joke backups. Truly awful seasons aren't good for a franchise.

Rosenfels contract is attractive. Rosenfels has proven that he can move the ball, even with an offense with a wildly inconsistent running game. He's a good guy. He'd be a terrific guy to have as a starter if you draft a QB that you eventually want to groom for the starter's job.

So, with those factors, you would think you could get something for him from some of these teams whose fans are sick of ridiculously bad quarterback play.

I've never been one eager to trade Rosenfels, but having Gray on roster makes me a lot more comfortable with it. One plus for Sage is that we don't have the talent across the board as the better teams in the league have. We have a few rising stars and 1-2 confirmed star players. If we lose our starting QB to injury, the drop off can't be compensated for as easily by having other star players pick up the slack. We MUST have a good back up QB in order to be competitive. When looking at trade value, IMO, you have to look at the value of a player to YOU over what the rest of the league values that player at. Sage may be worth a 3rd on the open market, but to the Texans, I would want an early to mid 2nd. He's more valuable to us than the Vikings. Schaub might've won the games that Sage did, but would Gray?

Honoring Earl 34
03-24-2008, 05:42 PM
Gray for 600,000 $ is a much better deal than YKW for 1,000,000 $ . I wonder why the Giants did'nt go this route .

The Jags are a smashmouth team and if Gray wants to get paid learning the WCO for a year might be just the ticket .

SheTexan
03-24-2008, 05:54 PM
Magic statement! "I'm friends with Andre Johnson." That'll do it! Look for this dude, who looks like a linebacker, to step up WHEN MS goes down!! Might be a good combo, eventually. Don't get me wrong, I don't want Sage to go anywhere, BUT, AJ does seem to have some pull.

Lucky
03-24-2008, 06:07 PM
Gray for 600,000 $ is a much better deal than YKW for 1,000,000 $ . I wonder why the Giants did'nt go this route .
I think you can chalk that up to the GOBC. Palmer was familiar with YKW and not so with Gray. Even in the NFL (maybe especially in the NFL), it's who you know that counts.

Wolf
03-24-2008, 06:20 PM
I think you can chalk that up to the GOBC. Palmer was familiar with YKW and not so with Gray. Even in the NFL (maybe especially in the NFL), it's who you know that counts.


shouldn't it be GDBC club?

Going Down Behind Center?
:specnatz:

infantrycak
03-24-2008, 06:44 PM
Besides, somehow, I don't think that the Texans would be interested in taking on the risk of a big contract (and it will ultimately be a big contract)

No, if traded for it will be a very cheap contract through 2013. If traded, the Texans would not be responsible for any bonuses already paid and starting salaries of 2008: $3.25 million, 2009: $2.9 million, 2010: $4.6 million, 2011: $4.9 million, 2012: $4.5 million, 2013: $4 million are cheap for a LT.

with impending suspension, and justifiable fear of ban following a 3rd incident due to not being able to confine "violence" to the field.

Valid concern.

DiehardChris
03-24-2008, 06:58 PM
One thing out of this situation that I think is pretty hilarious... and shows quite a difference between our F.O. and our division rival Jags F.O.

Here are the details for Cleo Lemon's Jax contract:

2/29/2008: Signed a three-year, $8.1 million contract. The deal included an initial roster bonus of $2.95 million. Another $750,000 million is available through incentives. 2008: $605,000, 2009: $1.695 million, 2010: $2.4 million.

We pick up their ex-#2, who has already proved he can win with that team - for 635K. Awesome.

beerlover
03-24-2008, 07:00 PM
One thing out of this situation that I think is pretty hilarious... and shows quite a difference between our F.O. and our division rival Jags F.O.

Here are the details for Cleo Lemon's Jax contract:



We pick up their ex-#2, who has already proved he can win with that team - for 635K. Awesome.

Rick Smith has the Texans going in the opposite direction it seems, good point :photos:

infantrycak
03-24-2008, 07:10 PM
Here are the details for Cleo Lemon's Jax contract

Or compare Sage at 4 years, $7 mil with Cleo at 3 years, $8.1 mil.

Bubbajwp
03-24-2008, 07:22 PM
If we dont trade sage this year and he either doesnt play or plays bad then next year he will have nearly no value.

Who here wish's the Astros would have traded Brad Lidge after 05. I do.

Joe Texan
03-24-2008, 07:24 PM
Quinn came in as the #3 QB, To learn the system, Gary Will not release Sage for anything less than a two, and thaty is even iffy. Sage is old hand at this system and is highly regarded as a backbone on this team. There have been very few even pony up a 3 for a back up QB to the texans so if anything happens it will be on draft day, The probable thing not being Sage but the aquisition of a LT and Corner in the first twop picks.

DocBar
03-24-2008, 07:25 PM
If we dont trade sage this year and he either doesnt play or plays bad then next year he will have nearly no value.

Who here wish's the Astros would have traded Brad Lidge after 05. I do.
Hindsight sees 20/20. If your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle. What IF we trade Sage this year, Schaub gets hurt or his shoulder isn't ready to go, THEN what? Are you gonna wish we hadn't traded Sage? I am.

TEXANRED
03-24-2008, 07:38 PM
The other way to look at it is Gray really was brought in to be the #3 just in case Schaub either goes down with injury or is ineffective. At that point during the 2009 offseason cutting Schaub and making Sage the starter with Gray as the #2 with a full year in the system.

I doubt it though. I see a trade coming on draft day.

Three QB's is a waist of a roster spot. Especially if you think that the Texans will cary 3 to 4 RB's on the active roster. Of course I am of the opinion that Sage will be gone and Green with be cut. Or maybe traded along with Sage.....

TexansLucky13
03-24-2008, 07:44 PM
Owen Daniels is our #3 QB come draft day.

Wolf
03-24-2008, 07:58 PM
http://vikingsmessageboard.com/viewtopic.php?t=16021&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

viking fans are ok with #3 but don't want to give up #2

http://www.purplepride.org/forums/index.php?topic=43468.0

Bubbajwp
03-24-2008, 08:02 PM
Hindsight sees 20/20. If your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle. What IF we trade Sage this year, Schaub gets hurt or his shoulder isn't ready to go, THEN what? Are you gonna wish we hadn't traded Sage? I am.

Thats kinda funny. Because for some odd reason me and my brother have always called my aunt deb, Uncle Deb and I dont think she has any balls.

LOL

For the rest of your post. No im not gonna regret trading Sage for two major reasons. If Schaub does get hurt

A. We most likely wont make the playoffs.
and
B. If we somehow magically do I dont think we willwin the Superbowl with Sage at QB.

Also we would get to see what Gray can really do under Kubiak. + extra draft picks.

ChampionTexan
03-24-2008, 08:07 PM
If we dont trade sage this year and he either doesnt play or plays bad then next year he will have nearly no value.

He's a backup QB - if he doesn't play, the mystique goes higher. There is not nearly enough talent in the NFL QB ranks, so if he goes next year without playing much, other teams will still remember his '07 season. In other words, what has been seen cannot be unseen.

Look at Schaub, he'd started all of 2 games when we traded for him and his record in those 2 games was 0-2. Additionally, the fact that the two games he started were in 2004 and 2005 didn't cause the NFL to forget about him after a season of riding the pine in 2006. While we were obviously the last team to attempt to acquire him from the Falcons, we were far from the first. The level of interest in Sage isn't as great, but neither are the stakes in terms of the compensation he'd bring.

I still think there's a pretty darn good chance that they trade him between now and whenever the '08 trading deadline is, but I don't think Schaub staying healthy hurts Sage's value at all - it may actually have the opposite effect.

Lucky
03-24-2008, 08:17 PM
Here's a question I have for those buying the company (and the Chronic's) line of the Texans going with 3 QBs in 2008:

Why didn't Smith & Kubiak bring in Quinn Gray earlier?

Free agency started 3 weeks ago. Gray could have been scooped up by another team in the mean time. I'm pretty sure he visited a couple of teams. And the Texans haven't brought in another QB other than Gray since FA began.

Here's the Sage/Quinn timeline:

2/28 - Don Banks of SI.com quotes a "league source" that the Vikings offered the Texans a 3rd round pick for Rosenfels. Houston is reported to be seeking a 2nd rounder.
2/29 - The Star Tribune reports that the talks between the Texans and Vikings had stalled, with Minnesota possibly turning to Bills backup QB J.P. Losman.
3/18 - The Star Tribune reports that Gus Frerotte will visit Minnesota to discuss the backup QB job.
3/19 - PFT reports that Gray will visit Houston.
3/20 - Frerotte leaves Minnesota without a contract.
3/24 - The Chronic reports that Gray is signed to a one year deal.

I don't know what the next timeline entry will be. But, I see a connection between what the Vikings have done, and the Quinn signing. My feeling is that once Frerotte made his visit, the Texans caved in to the Vikings' offer of the 3rd round pick. Which in turn, had Rick Smith on the horn to Drew Rosenhaus (Quinn's agent). It wouldn't surpise me if the Vikings aren't trying to work an extension with Rosenfels, right now. Pure speculation on my part. Tell me why I'm wrong.

Wolf
03-24-2008, 08:18 PM
Gray's stats
http://www.nfl.com/players/quinngray/careerstats?id=GRA766862

sage's stats
http://www.nfl.com/players/sagerosenfels/careerstats?id=ROS396938

comparable, and sage has been slightly more accurate in his career

so if we get the value that we want, i am putting my trust in Kubiak to help Gray out more due to working with Kubiak and Shanahan

If we don't trade sage I am not going to worry about it

it is one of those things that if Matt doesn't get hurt, we will be saying "Why didn't we gain an extra pick?" if we trade him and matt gets hurt and gray underperforms we will Question the trade and (depending on the rookie and how he is doing on the team) the rookie

Wolf
03-24-2008, 08:21 PM
Here's a question I have for those buying the company (and the Chronic's) line of the Texans going with 3 QBs in 2008:

Why didn't Smith & Kubiak bring in Quinn Gray earlier?

Free agency started 3 weeks ago. Gray could have been scooped up by another team in the mean time. I'm pretty sure he visited a couple of teams. And the Texans haven't brought in another QB other than Gray since FA began.

Here's the Sage/Quinn timeline:

2/28 - Don Banks of SI.com quotes a "league source" that the Vikings offered the Texans a 3rd round pick for Rosenfels. Houston is reported to be seeking a 2nd rounder.
2/29 - The Star Tribune reports that the talks between the Texans and Vikings had stalled, with Minnesota possibly turning to Bills backup QB J.P. Losman.
3/18 - The Star Tribune reports that Gus Frerotte will visit Minnesota to discuss the backup QB job.
3/19 - PFT reports that Gray will visit Houston.
3/20 - Frerotte leaves Minnesota without a contract.
3/24 - The Chronic reports that Gray is signed to a one year deal.

I don't know what the next timeline entry will be. But, I see a connection between what the Vikings have done, and the Quinn signing. My feeling is that once Frerotte made his visit, the Texans caved in to the Vikings' offer of the 3rd round pick. Which in turn, had Rick Smith on the horn to Drew Rosenhaus (Quinn's agent). It wouldn't surpise me if the Vikings aren't trying to work an extension with Rosenfels, right now. Pure speculation on my part. Tell me why I'm wrong.

Guy on vikings MB made a good point Sage for a 3rd more than likely would be better than drafting anyone in the 3rd and developing them, esp if TJ is their starter.. Sage could push TJ for the starting position while a rookie would have a harder time

CloakNNNdagger
03-24-2008, 08:27 PM
I wouldn't feel comfortable speaking in such absolutes but that's just me. You may be right...maybe Sage isn't going anywhere, but your reasoning doesn't mean anything given recent history.

Seems like I remember some saying the same thing about Carr a year ago. Something to the effect of 'we will not get rid of Carr for an unproven back-up QB'.

Well, as we all know, not only did we get rid of him and acquire an unproven back-up, we gave up two 2nd round picks for the unproven back-up...mainly b/c of the talent evaluation of Smithiak which led them to believe Schaub was worth the risk. Now, we have this current scenario which leads many of us to believe we acquired Gray in order to deal Rosenfels. It is a risk letting go of a capable back-up, but apparently Smithiak feels that Gray can step into that role AND we can get an extra draft pick.

I guess what I'm saying is that I trust the current regime to make the correct decisions...and IMO it seems that they may be leaning towards trading Rosenfels. If so, judging by our front office's track record, I believe they will make the correct call.:twocents:


The difference was Carr was indisputably horrible.

CloakNNNdagger
03-24-2008, 08:31 PM
No, if traded for it will be a very cheap contract through 2013. If traded, the Texans would not be responsible for any bonuses already paid and starting salaries of 2008: $3.25 million, 2009: $2.9 million, 2010: $4.6 million, 2011: $4.9 million, 2012: $4.5 million, 2013: $4 million are cheap for a LT.



Valid concern.

CAK,
I probably didn't make myself clear.............I meant specifically if we take on Bryant and he is suspended, especially long term or permanently-----shortly or down the line, it would make a seemingly cheap contract quite costly.

Kaiser Toro
03-24-2008, 08:49 PM
CAK,
I probably didn't make myself clear.............I meant specifically if we take on Bryant and he is suspended, especially long term or permanently-----shortly or down the line, it would make a seemingly cheap contract quite costly.

If he grew to incorrigible then we would just cut him and carry no dead cap since the Vikings would assume the signing bonus.

This would be a great contract (sans signing bonus) to have if only on-field production were the only variable to consider for this type of young talent.

I do not think he is great, but his contract would be a tremendous value if it did happen.

Kaiser Toro
03-24-2008, 08:52 PM
Two other points to ponder:

- If we got McKinnie we would have three starters from Miami (FL) on the O line.
- McKinnie's agent is Mario's - Ben Dogra

infantrycak
03-24-2008, 09:42 PM
If he grew to incorrigible then we would just cut him and carry no dead cap since the Vikings would assume the signing bonus.

This would be a great contract (sans signing bonus) to have if only on-field production were the only variable to consider for this type of young talent.

I do not think he is great, but his contract would be a tremendous value if it did happen.

Exactly--this is precisely the kind of deal with very low risk for a guy with potential character issues. Zero dead money if unsuccessful, with the only risk a lost backup QB.

Texans_Chick
03-24-2008, 09:49 PM
Interesting Quinn Gray video.

FWIW, he mentions Schaub. Says nothing about Rosenfels.

Hmmmmm:

HT.com Quinn Gray video. (http://www.houstontexans.com/tv/index.asp?mm_file_id=2188&play_clip=Y)

Wolf
03-24-2008, 09:59 PM
This is interesting
:devilpig:

When quarterback Brett Favre turns in his retirement papers, the Green Bay Packers will strike $11.4 million from payroll and quite possibly lead the National Football League in available salary cap room.


"We don't need the cap room," Thompson said of the delay.

Indeed, they don't.

As of last weekend, they were $24.3 million below the $116 million salary cap


Next in line: Apparently, the Packers didn't think that much of free-agent quarterback Quinn Gray.

On Monday he signed a one-year, $645,000 deal with the Houston Texans, according to the Houston Chronicle. If the Packers had any interest in signing him, they would have offered a lot more.

Gray visited the Packers, who are taking their time in finding a backup for Rodgers.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=731473

:specnatz:

CloakNNNdagger
03-24-2008, 10:02 PM
If he grew to incorrigible then we would just cut him and carry no dead cap since the Vikings would assume the signing bonus.

This would be a great contract (sans signing bonus) to have if only on-field production were the only variable to consider for this type of young talent.

I do not think he is great, but his contract would be a tremendous value if it did happen.

Can McKinney not demand renegotiation of his contract (including guaranteed money and bonuses) from the receiving team prior to the completion of the trade (ala Hall from the Raiders)?

CloakNNNdagger
03-24-2008, 10:56 PM
This is from the Sports/Texans online "front page" introducing the interview concerning the new acquisitions...........accuracy is not a consideration??????



Texans update: New faces (http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/)

The Texans pick up a few players they think can help them get above .500, including Chris Brown, Jacques Reeves, Chaun Thompson and Chris Henry.