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Brandon420tx
03-24-2008, 10:29 PM
Is there a confused looking smiley that opens and closes his mouth while its brain seems to be working something over?

Because I just had one of those moments when I read that CnD.

Second Honeymoon
03-25-2008, 12:47 AM
If we dont trade sage this year and he either doesnt play or plays bad then next year he will have nearly no value.

Who here wish's the Astros would have traded Brad Lidge after 05. I do.

exactly. its almost a lose-lose proposition to keep Sage. if he gets time this year like last year he will demand a trade if not given the starting QB job which would diminish value because teams knew we had to deal him. if he isn't used he would probably ask for a trade to a team that needs a starter and we would probably feel more secure at QB stability if Schaub stays healthy and effective.

Sell high (trading Sage for 2nd rounder) and buy low and hope it matures (Gray). I don't think a 3rd Rounder is enough for Sage though. I would actually take a 5th Rounder this year and a Vikings 2nd Rounder next year for Sage.

Texan in Japan
03-25-2008, 05:23 AM
The cover story...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5645519.html

Do you believe it? Its plausible, and that's why its good as a cover story.

aj.
03-25-2008, 06:45 AM
The cover story...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5645519.html



Gotta love McClain's Waffle del Grande at the end of the article. I guess he's just covering all the possibilities :rolleyes::

Kubiak and general manager Rick Smith would like to get back the second-round pick they gave to Atlanta last year in the trade for Schaub.

Gray gives the Texans flexibility. He could be insurance in case the Texans are offered a second-round pick by Minnesota or any other team. When opposing quarterbacks are injured in preseason, they might be able to trade Gray for a draft choice or a player.


Up until now - and in that article up until the final two paragraphs, it's been no, no, no, the Texans aren't considering trading Sage and they're going to carry three QBs ...

It's funny how before the internet, sports writers and op/ed columnists used to help shape the views of fans. Now with blogs, message boards, email and things like pft it's the other way around.

nunusguy
03-25-2008, 06:58 AM
its almost a lose-lose proposition to keep Sage.

A second round pick, especially since we don't have one this year, would be very tempting. But wouldn't you feel better if we had atleast one full-year of Schaub at QB to establish his ability and durability before we delt the QB who many feel is just as good ?

TK_Gamer
03-25-2008, 07:04 AM
A second round pick, especially since we don't have one this year, would be very tempting. But wouldn't you feel better if we had atleast one full-year of Schaub at QB to establish his ability and durability before we delt the QB who many feel is just as good ?

Honestly, I think it's a matter of "who a small minority feel is just as good" turning that into "many" is quite an exageration imho.

ObsiWan
03-25-2008, 07:13 AM
"No one is giving that up for a backup"

Uhm... hello? Matt Schaub?

what he meant was: no one is giving that up for someone coming in to be the backup

Matt was coming in to be the starter

CloakNNNdagger
03-25-2008, 07:16 AM
exactly. its almost a lose-lose proposition to keep Sage. if he gets time this year like last year he will demand a trade if not given the starting QB job which would diminish value because teams knew we had to deal him. if he isn't used he would probably ask for a trade to a team that needs a starter and we would probably feel more secure at QB stability if Schaub stays healthy and effective.


Sell high (trading Sage for 2nd rounder) and buy low and hope it matures (Gray). I don't think a 3rd Rounder is enough for Sage though. I would actually take a 5th Rounder this year and a Vikings 2nd Rounder next year for Sage.


Again, there was a difference. No one even considered a Lidge trade until AFTER he showed that he was not reliable. That's not the Sage scenario.

CloakNNNdagger
03-25-2008, 07:27 AM
A second round pick, especially since we don't have one this year, would be very tempting. But wouldn't you feel better if we had atleast one full-year of Schaub at QB to establish his ability and durability before we delt the QB who many feel is just as good ?

As I've said before, I see no way Sage is going anywhere this year........and Quinn is in for the Texans to evaluate up close. As other teams' QBs go down..........and options have been "dried up," Quinn's value goes straight up in the mix of available "promising/potentially capable" QB's. When all is taken into account, a future Quinn based deal is the most probable.

ObsiWan
03-25-2008, 07:34 AM
Gotta love McClain's Waffle del Grande at the end of the article. I guess he's just covering all the possibilities :rolleyes::



Up until now - and in that article up until the final two paragraphs, it's been no, no, no, the Texans aren't considering trading Sage and they're going to carry three QBs ...

It's funny how before the internet, sports writers and op/ed columnists used to help shape the views of fans. Now with blogs, message boards, email and things like pft it's the other way around.

Its still "no, no, no" in my mind. McClain is speculating on possible moves - like we've been doing for 13 pages on this thread.

Its like I said several pages back; Kubiak has been head coach two years and has lost a QB both years. Both starters if you're real about it - there's no way Carr would have finished out the 2006 season had Rosenfels not busted his hand on a special teams play. We all know this. So when Kubiak says....
"I know what people are saying, but signing Quinn has absolutely nothing to do with it," Kubiak said about acquiring Gray to expedite a trade for Rosenfels. "I've been a two-quarterback type of guy, but what happened to us last season scared the heck out of me, and I don't want to go through that again.and...
"I don't know what we would have done if something had happened to Sage," Kubiak said. "I don't want to go through that again. I think my philosophy has changed. I've become more of a three-quarterback guy....I TOTALLY believe him. Not only that, I agree.

Slow down and think about, you guys know our luck with injuries! Its always sucked! ALWAYS!! What the heck makes you think its suddenly and magically gonna get better?? It would be just our luck for us to trade Sage then have Matt go down again and have to have Quinn Gray as our starter and Shane Boyd as the back-up. Or worse have to bring in somebody like Culpepper in mid-season. No thank you.

I like this insurance idea.

nunusguy
03-25-2008, 08:30 AM
I'm like many others, I'm puzzled how we got Quinn so cheaply ? It just doesn't add up, given the very high consideration teams pay in cash
and Draft picks for the service of QBs, e.g. what we paid for a very unproven but high potential Matt Schaub.

Texans_Chick
03-25-2008, 08:48 AM
I'm like many others, I'm puzzled how we got Quinn so cheaply ? It just doesn't add up, given the very high consideration teams pay in cash
and Draft picks for the service of QBs, e.g. what we paid for a very unproven but high potential Matt Schaub.

A few ideas:

1. In some of his wins, he was mostly handing off the ball. It is hard to evaluate quarterbacks who come from a team which is one of the best at running the ball.

2. He doesn't have that big college background to look at. He is athletic but doesn't have a traditional QB build.

3. There is some noise that he wasn't the best guy in the locker room. That he undermined Garrard. But then again, JAX situation last year at the QB spot was a freaking emotional mess. Lots of locker room unhappiness that didn't explode because the team was winning with Garrard. So I am guessing that is what is meant with hiim wanting a fresh start. And that his desire to compete for the starting job is not something that a lot of teams appreciate in the guy who is going to be a backup QB.

4. Given Kubiak's background, Houston is a destination for quarterbacks looking to improve.

Lucky
03-25-2008, 08:59 AM
"I know what people are saying, but signing Quinn has absolutely nothing to do with it," Kubiak said about acquiring Gray to expedite a trade for Rosenfels.If that's the case, why wait so long after free agency started to bring Gray in? Gray was the first and last QB they looked at, and it took nearly a month after FA began. Why doesn't da General ask that question?

When these teams like the Vikings, Bills, and Pack settle the QB position without trading for Rosenfels, then I'll believe Kubiak is keeping Gray as a 3rd QB.

Texans_Chick
03-25-2008, 08:59 AM
Gotta love McClain's Waffle del Grande at the end of the article. I guess he's just covering all the possibilities :rolleyes::



Up until now - and in that article up until the final two paragraphs, it's been no, no, no, the Texans aren't considering trading Sage and they're going to carry three QBs ...

It's funny how before the internet, sports writers and op/ed columnists used to help shape the views of fans. Now with blogs, message boards, email and things like pft it's the other way around.


Well said.

Something that the article doesn't mention but I've wondered about is whether if the Texans had a viable #3 at the end of last season, Schaub would have got his shoulder surgery earlier. There was a time where there were discussions of whether Schaub would be dressed just for purposes of mostly handing off the ball.

Though the waffle del grande at the end is where the meat of this situation is, I sometimes wonder if Houston will ever get a newspaper that is more directly questioning of what is being put out in press conferences. I'm not saying that they need to be more critical as in harsh, but showing more critical thinking about moves that the team makes.

Bubbajwp
03-25-2008, 08:59 AM
"I know what people are saying, but signing Quinn has absolutely nothing to do with it," Kubiak said about acquiring Gray to expedite a trade for Rosenfels. "I've been a two-quarterback type of guy, but what happened to us last season scared the heck out of me, and I don't want to go through that again.

and...

Quote:
"I don't know what we would have done if something had happened to Sage," Kubiak said. "I don't want to go through that again. I think my philosophy has changed. I've become more of a three-quarterback guy
These two quotes could easily be smokescreens to raise the value of Sage even more. Or atleast to keep it from falling.

Texans_Chick
03-25-2008, 09:00 AM
If that's the case, why wait so long after free agency started to bring Gray in? Gray was the first and last QB they looked at, and it took nearly a month after FA began. Why doesn't da General ask that question?

When these teams like the Vikings, Bills, and Pack settle the QB position without trading for Rosenfels, then I'll believe Kubiak is keeping Gray as a 3rd QB.

Dude.....

you're so right. :cool:

Bubbajwp
03-25-2008, 09:01 AM
Well said.

Something that the article doesn't mention but I've wondered about is whether if the Texans had a viable #3 at the end of last season, Schaub would have got his shoulder surgery earlier. There was a time where there were discussions of whether Schaub would be dressed just for purposes of mostly handing off the ball.

Though the waffle del grande at the end is where the meat of this situation is, I sometimes wonder if Houston will ever get a newspaper that is more directly questioning of what is being put out in press conferences. I'm not saying that they need to be more critical as in harsh, but showing more critical thinking about moves that the team makes.

I think if that was the case they would just let Owen Daniels come in to be the emergency QB.

Texans_Chick
03-25-2008, 09:11 AM
I think if that was the case they would just let Owen Daniels come in to be the emergency QB.

But they were still talking Schaub up as someone who might play games even when he wasn't. Which may have been a matter of having teams semi-prepare for him.

I think they may have preferred Schaub with a messed up non-throwing arm over using their TE as a quarterback.

In basic terms, they really were screwed if something bad happened to Rosenfels. That being said, I'm not sure that you need a Quinn Gray to be your #3 to succeed.

Interesting thing brought up in the DGDB&D blog. By aquiring Gray, you may have in some ways increased your leverage by taking one of the potential competant backups off the QB market. And have increased interest by others by putting yourself in a position where other teams know you can deal but don't have to.

The Pencil Neck
03-25-2008, 09:24 AM
We were willing to TALK to Minnesota before we even had Gray in place. I don't think this is going to take Sage off the table.

BUT... for the price that we paid for Gray and our past experience with injuries, I believe Kubiak when he says that we're going to go with 3 QB's from now on and that Gray was brought in to battle with Boyd for that third spot.

However, if someone offers us the right deal, I think we'll deal Sage. And there's a good possibility that things may work out (with injuries and the draft) that some team could get really desperate for a QB.

We're really in a pretty sweet position. We don't have to deal Sage. We're planning on going ahead with what we've got but if someone wants to throw a sweet deal our way, then great. If not, then great.

:thinking:

Smithiak rools.

badboy
03-25-2008, 09:31 AM
A second round pick, especially since we don't have one this year, would be very tempting. But wouldn't you feel better if we had atleast one full-year of Schaub at QB to establish his ability and durability before we delt the QB who many feel is just as good ?I certainly wished I had been in a one year relationship with a beautiful woman that had a great job and thought I was the man of her dreams + she could cook. Having said that I would quickly settle for the telephone #(draft pick) that someone said fits the description of the woman above that I don't have. This woman may come in my life after I start dating the other (draft pick) but I have to go with what I have. Unfortunately, I keep getting third round opportunities rather than seconds.

TexanSam
03-25-2008, 09:48 AM
Here's my take.

Trade Sage.
Move Quinn Gray up to #2.
Re-sign Bradlee Van Pelt.

:doot:

infantrycak
03-25-2008, 09:52 AM
Can McKinney not demand renegotiation of his contract (including guaranteed money and bonuses) from the receiving team prior to the completion of the trade (ala Hall from the Raiders)?

Hall had stroke to play with in the deal because he was only under contract through 2008. No team trading for him would want to do the deal unless a new contract was reached. McKinnie is almost in the opposite position and has no stroke because he is under contract through 2013. His only option is to sit out at which point he is not getting paid and the Texans would have zero money on their cap.

Lucky
03-25-2008, 09:53 AM
BUT... for the price that we paid for Gray and our past experience with injuries, I believe Kubiak when he says that we're going to go with 3 QB's from now on and that Gray was brought in to battle with Boyd for that third spot.
Have the Texans re-signed Boyd? I can't find anything on him, whether he's an exclusive free agent, a restricted free agent, or what.

CloakNNNdagger
03-25-2008, 10:06 AM
Hall had stroke to play with in the deal because he was only under contract through 2008. No team trading for him would want to do the deal unless a new contract was reached. McKinnie is almost in the opposite position and has no stroke because he is under contract through 2013. His only option is to sit out at which point he is not getting paid and the Texans would have zero money on their cap.

Thanks for the clarification.:)

CloakNNNdagger
03-25-2008, 10:11 AM
Have the Texans re-signed Boyd? I can't find anything on him, whether he's an exclusive free agent, a restricted free agent, or what.

He becomes a RFA in 2009 (http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?y=2009) (He's not listed as a free agent under 2008)

El Tejano
03-25-2008, 10:13 AM
exactly. its almost a lose-lose proposition to keep Sage. if he gets time this year like last year he will demand a trade if not given the starting QB job which would diminish value because teams knew we had to deal him. if he isn't used he would probably ask for a trade to a team that needs a starter and we would probably feel more secure at QB stability if Schaub stays healthy and effective.

Sell high (trading Sage for 2nd rounder) and buy low and hope it matures (Gray). I don't think a 3rd Rounder is enough for Sage though. I would actually take a 5th Rounder this year and a Vikings 2nd Rounder next year for Sage.

Not to mention the fact that if Schaub starts off a little slow, everyone will be wanting Kubiak to pull the trigger and start Rose' right away. QB controversy is not what a young team needs.

El Tejano
03-25-2008, 10:22 AM
I'm like many others, I'm puzzled how we got Quinn so cheaply ? It just doesn't add up, given the very high consideration teams pay in cash
and Draft picks for the service of QBs, e.g. what we paid for a very unproven but high potential Matt Schaub.

Keep in mind guys get interviewed by teams before the teams give them a deal. There may have been something that the other teams didn't like that we did and we made an offer.

From what I understand the dude likes to try and become the starter, which is what I want from the QB position - starters looking behind them and reserves looking over their shoulders.

El Tejano
03-25-2008, 10:31 AM
If that's the case, why wait so long after free agency started to bring Gray in? Gray was the first and last QB they looked at, and it took nearly a month after FA began. Why doesn't da General ask that question?

When these teams like the Vikings, Bills, and Pack settle the QB position without trading for Rosenfels, then I'll believe Kubiak is keeping Gray as a 3rd QB.

Because you are dealing with a QB who thought he could get a starting job somewhere else, and you don't want to deal with that dude so early in FA. Rather you wait it out and when his options are gone, you give him your deal - not his.

drewmar74
03-25-2008, 10:53 AM
Re-sign Bradlee Van Pelt.



:elle:

TexanSam
03-25-2008, 11:01 AM
:elle:

Fine fine. Dave Ragone! He's the only QB in Texans history to complete a pass to himself.

El Tejano
03-25-2008, 11:21 AM
Now how could you not want Tony Banks? His wife made great cookies for the team.

Thorn
03-25-2008, 11:40 AM
I like what Kubes said in the Chronicle interview, if in fact he actually meant it and wasn't blowing smoke up our behinds. The idea of having two workable QBs behind your starter is not such a bad idea these days.

nunusguy
03-25-2008, 04:53 PM
A few ideas:

1. In some of his wins, he was mostly handing off the ball. It is hard to evaluate quarterbacks who come from a team which is one of the best at running the ball.

2. He doesn't have that big college background to look at. He is athletic but doesn't have a traditional QB build.

3. There is some noise that he wasn't the best guy in the locker room. That he undermined Garrard. But then again, JAX situation last year at the QB spot was a freaking emotional mess. Lots of locker room unhappiness that didn't explode because the team was winning with Garrard. So I am guessing that is what is meant with hiim wanting a fresh start. And that his desire to compete for the starting job is not something that a lot of teams appreciate in the guy who is going to be a backup QB.

4. Given Kubiak's background, Houston is a destination for quarterbacks looking to improve.
How about this instead ? He came here on the cheap even with better apparent opportunites out there because he's been guaranteed the back-up
job ? Which of course would have to mean the Texans are going to deal Sage.

Rex King
03-25-2008, 08:25 PM
I don't know what the next timeline entry will be. But, I see a connection between what the Vikings have done, and the Quinn signing. My feeling is that once Frerotte made his visit, the Texans caved in to the Vikings' offer of the 3rd round pick. Which in turn, had Rick Smith on the horn to Drew Rosenhaus (Quinn's agent). It wouldn't surpise me if the Vikings aren't trying to work an extension with Rosenfels, right now. Pure speculation on my part. Tell me why I'm wrong.

I don't think you're wrong in thinking the Texans could trade Rosenfels, but there could have been other factors that haven't been reported somewhere in that timeline, such as other team(s) than the Vikings expressing some interest that precipitated them hedging their bet by signing Gray.

ObsiWan
03-25-2008, 10:01 PM
We were willing to TALK to Minnesota before we even had Gray in place. I don't think this is going to take Sage off the table.

BUT... for the price that we paid for Gray and our past experience with injuries, I believe Kubiak when he says that we're going to go with 3 QB's from now on and that Gray was brought in to battle with Boyd for that third spot.

However, if someone offers us the right deal, I think we'll deal Sage. And there's a good possibility that things may work out (with injuries and the draft) that some team could get really desperate for a QB.

We're really in a pretty sweet position. We don't have to deal Sage. We're planning on going ahead with what we've got but if someone wants to throw a sweet deal our way, then great. If not, then great.

:thinking:

Smithiak rools.

that sums it up rather nicely.
:perfect10:

(I'd rep you but the board won't let me)

barrett
03-26-2008, 12:28 AM
agreed.

Hottoddie
03-26-2008, 12:46 AM
This isn't McKinnie's 1st brush with the law [LINK] (http://kstp.com/article/stories/S356873.shtml?cat=10498)
..........and for the type of problems he has demonstrated, it's not likely to be his last.



Besides, somehow, I don't think that the Texans would be interested in taking on the risk of a big contract (and it will ultimately be a big contract), with impending suspension, and justifiable fear of ban following a 3rd incident due to not being able to confine "violence" to the field.

Some players take a long while to get it, & some never get it. My thinking (& hope) is that facing the real possibility of losing his career & being traded might be a wakeup call to McKinnie. Maybe, a change of scenery & being around the kind of class organization the Texan's are, would be enough to help him turn the corner.

You are correct about his potential downside. But, if the Texan's front office does it's due diligence & determines that he's worth the risk, I believe I'd have to do the deal. Being able to trade a backup for a starter is a no-brainer. Or, at least, that's what I think.

I believe infantrycak has more than adequately addressed the cap ramifications.

TEXANRED
03-26-2008, 07:09 AM
I believe infantrycak has more than adequately addressed the cap ramifications.

Not everything is always about the cap. Sometimes its about the 52 man roster. When Myers was signed that spelled the end for McKinney. We were not going to carry 3 centers, and still won't. The only way McKinney comes back is if White hits a rehab bump.

The signing of Brown spells the end of Green. We are not going to carry 3, 4,or 5 RB's on the active roster. That is one reason why we will not see a first day draft selection on a RB. Taylor will be on the active roster at the start of the season, Brown as well, and (let me crawfish here for 3 RB's) a draft pick.

The signing of Gray (getting a Res. Dogs theme here) means there is something is up with Sage. Maybe he is delt on draft day, maybe down the road. Maybe we are talking to the Eagles and trading Sage for Sheppard. Who knows.

Our reserves or excess at a particular spot is put aside for out D/O Lines, secondary, and WR's.

Look at our secondary, Demps, Brown, Harrison, and we are looking at Furgie, We got Reeves, Bennett, I can't think who our NB is. DRob will be back at some point, and a Draft pick. So we have got 8 spots tied up just in the secondary.

Thats why you won't see him go three deep in one position very often unless someone can contribute on special teams. And I don't see gray, Sage, or Schaub chasing down kicks.

CloakNNNdagger
03-26-2008, 07:47 AM
Some players take a long while to get it, & some never get it. My thinking (& hope) is that facing the real possibility of losing his career & being traded might be a wakeup call to McKinnie. Maybe, a change of scenery & being around the kind of class organization the Texan's are, would be enough to help him turn the corner.

You are correct about his potential downside. But, if the Texan's front office does it's due diligence & determines that he's worth the risk, I believe I'd have to do the deal. Being able to trade a backup for a starter is a no-brainer. Or, at least, that's what I think.

I believe infantrycak has more than adequately addressed the cap ramifications.


Unfortunately, I have not seen many with a physically violent anger management problem turn the corner, even in light of punishment which would scare the H@ll out of us mere mortals.

badboy
03-26-2008, 08:45 AM
Can someone inform me of what exactly McKinnie (sp)LT did? I have been unable to get details of what his anger management issues led to. Also, on keeping 3 centers or even 4. Some of them played guard. I do not think we have any idea of what White will actually do anymore than we do with Charles Spencer.

Vinny
03-26-2008, 09:14 AM
Can someone inform me of what exactly McKinnie (sp)LT did? I have been unable to get details of what his anger management issues led to. Also, on keeping 3 centers or even 4. Some of them played guard. I do not think we have any idea of what White will actually do anymore than we do with Charles Spencer. Welcome to the era of the swing Center under coach Gibbs.

http://salsadanza.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/swingoutphoto.gif

badboy
03-26-2008, 09:22 AM
Welcome to the era of the swing Center under coach Gibbs.

http://salsadanza.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/swingoutphoto.gifShuffle to the left, shuffle to the right, play three positions all night!:splits:

CloakNNNdagger
03-26-2008, 11:09 AM
Can someone inform me of what exactly McKinnie (sp)LT did? I have been unable to get details of what his anger management issues led to. Also, on keeping 3 centers or even 4. Some of them played guard. I do not think we have any idea of what White will actually do anymore than we do with Charles Spencer.

[Another spitter............FYI picking up and using one of those heavy metal posts that connect guide straps for walling off entrance pathways]

According to a Miami police report obtained by The Herald, McKinnie spit on the face of a bouncer, 32-year-old Eric Otero, shoved a camera phone into his face and then picked up a heavy pole and slammed it over Otero's head. This occurred in front of a large crowd.

The trouble had started when Otero attempted to eject the 6-8, 335-pound McKinnie from the club. As he was being taken out of the establishment, McKinnie yelled obscenities and spit in Otero's face according to police. Otero said if McKinnie left, he would not press charges.

The police then saw McKinnie entering a nearby strip club. But the Herald reported that, at about 6:30 a.m., police were again called to Club Space. Police found McKinnie "in the middle of a large crowd, throwing punches and again yelling obscenities" at Otero, the police report said. The police told him to stop, but he refused and boarded a charter bus. The driver of the bus was ordered not to leave.

LINK (http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/15928457.html)

Norg
03-26-2008, 11:45 AM
iam thinking we want are second pick back and if the offer comes up we will trade sage ... i am sure we dont want 4 QB on are squad ....

badboy
03-26-2008, 12:21 PM
[Another spitter............FYI picking up and using one of those heavy metal posts that connect guide straps for walling off entrance pathways]



LINK (http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/15928457.html)Thanks I had read about the boat incident but that seemed a matter of Public Relations than criminal if I understand it. Was not aware of the other two. Maybe we could hire Weary to follow him around to keep him out of trouble & give Weary a taser. Do any of you think this miscreant could be reformed and would McNair considered it a bit more than Pitts incident? McKinney size is good (fit for ZBS?) and contract looks really good.

badboy
03-26-2008, 12:22 PM
iam thinking we want are second pick back and if the offer comes up we will trade sage ... i am sure we dont want 4 QB on are squad ....Uh, what four QBs?

Specnatz
03-26-2008, 12:40 PM
Uh, what four QBs?

I would take a wild guess and say Boyd is the 4th.

badboy
03-26-2008, 12:41 PM
I would take a wild guess and say Boyd is the 4th.
Oh. I thought Boyd was gone? Training camp fodder, maybe?

Vinny
03-26-2008, 12:49 PM
Oh. I thought Boyd was gone? Training camp fodder, maybe?
more like raw player with loads of potential.

CloakNNNdagger
03-26-2008, 01:40 PM
I believe that Boyd would no longer be practice squad elligible this season........and there is no way there will be FOUR QBs on the regular roster.

badboy
03-26-2008, 02:27 PM
more like raw player with loads of potential.
Potentially good in Europe? Not so good with NFL teams so far.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_Boyd

Rex King
03-26-2008, 04:32 PM
Welcome to the era of the swing Center under coach Gibbs.

http://salsadanza.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/swingoutphoto.gif

Reminds me of the opening sequence of Mulholland Drive...creepy.

Shame about Boyd. Thought he'd be perfect to groom as a long-term backup. Heck, if they let Van Pelt carry a clipboard for two years... On the other hand, not to knock Kubiak, but he hasn't really developed a rookie QB besides Griese.

CloakNNNdagger
03-27-2008, 10:56 AM
Interesting post on another board (http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=388160&view=findpost&p=8410286)...............



Tim Ryan and Pat Kirwin were talking about this situation yesterday on Sirius radio.

For those who are unaware, Ryan is on one of the FOX broadcast teams. He knows things about even the most obscure NFL players, and Kirwin was a former GM in the league who keeps in contact with GMs and other key personnel men on a daily basis.

They both agree that they wouldn't even take a 2nd rounder for Rosenfels. The guy has proven he can rally the football team, and having a guy on the roster who you KNOW can play is more valuable than a 2nd-round pick who may or may not pan out.

They also opined that Kubiak realizes he needs three QBs, so they believe Sage isn't going anywhere.

badboy
03-27-2008, 12:24 PM
Interesting post on another board (http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=388160&view=findpost&p=8410286)...............Man I hope Vikings heard that and up offer to a two or their LT McKinnie.

El Tejano
03-27-2008, 12:28 PM
Interesting post on another board (http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=388160&view=findpost&p=8410286)...............

I would agree that he isn't going anywhere but the fact that the Vikings said 'we'll give you a third' and we replied ' give us a second' leads me to believe we weren't closing our ears to the idea. Why wouldn't we have said from the beginning that Sage is not available?

Vinny
03-27-2008, 12:33 PM
Potentially good in Europe? Not so good with NFL teams so far.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_Boyd
I just liked what I saw in the preseason game when he played against us. He was big, strong can move well and had a live arm. Most of my opinion comes from my own observation so that wiki means nothing to me. Keep in mind that I liked Rohan Davey too.... :heart:

badboy
03-27-2008, 12:41 PM
Here's a wild idea that has no basis or thought process what so ever. If Minnesota wants Sage so badly & we need a LT so badly, why not trade Sage for the troubled Bryant McKinnie? I realize it's not a fair swap, but if we could work out the particulars, would you consider it? Is he salvageable? According to this article, his cap hit wouldn't be that bad for a starting LT & Sage's $1.85 million cap hit would offset 25% of it. I'm not sure how bonus money would be transferred, but that could possibly further reduce the cost. Not likely to even be discussed, but it's food for thought.

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_8654810?nclick_check=1

One of the deterrents for clubs to release high-priced veterans is the salary cap. But if the Vikings cut or trade McKinnie, their salary-cap implications would be minimal. Not only is the club approximately $17.5 million under the cap, McKinnie's current cap number is $7.4 million. Releasing or trading him would cost the club only an additional $1.4 million.

If the Vikings are serious about moving him, they probably would have several suitors. Although he could face a suspension because of this incident NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has the authority to punish players, even without guilty pleas McKinnie plays a high-demand position, he's 28, he's extremely durable (87 consecutive starts), and he's relatively cheap (his base salary is less than $5 million through 2011). In fact, there has been speculation that the Vikings have discussed a trade with the Carolina Panthers. Among the players rumored to be discussed: defensive end Julius Peppers and offensive tackle Jordan Gross. The offensive tackle class also is considered fairly strong in the NFL draft.Is McKinnie someone McNair would allow on team? Would he fit the ZBS? Pretty big guy.

badboy
03-27-2008, 12:43 PM
I just liked what I saw in the preseason game when he played against us. He was big, strong can move well and had a live arm. Most of my opinion comes from my own observation so that wiki means nothing to me. Keep in mind that I liked Rohan Davey too.... :heart:
Vinnie, any UDFA that might walk on and make our PS at QB?

Lucky
03-27-2008, 01:13 PM
The guy has proven he can rally the football team, and having a guy on the roster who you KNOW can play is more valuable than a 2nd-round pick who may or may not pan out.I agree with Ryan and Kirwan in that Sage has value to this team. But if Smith & Kubiak are convinced that they can get a player who can contribute right away, I would trust their judgement. I don't think you can enter a draft afraid that a guy you pick may not pan out.

badboy
03-27-2008, 01:31 PM
I agree with Ryan and Kirwan in that Sage has value to this team. But if Smith & Kubiak are convinced that they can get a player who can contribute right away, I would trust their judgement. I don't think you can enter a draft afraid that a guy you pick may not pan out.
Well said.

CloakNNNdagger
03-27-2008, 01:37 PM
I would agree that he isn't going anywhere but the fact that the Vikings said 'we'll give you a third' and we replied ' give us a second' leads me to believe we weren't closing our ears to the idea. Why wouldn't we have said from the beginning that Sage is not available?

I thought that it was a simple "not interested." I wasn't aware that Smithiak made any counter offer. I can't remember Smith or Kubiak being QUOTED about accepting a 2nd round pick. I believe it was only in the veiled presumptive context of the writer(s). Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Lucky
03-27-2008, 01:40 PM
I wasn't aware that Smithiak made any counter offer. I can't remember Smith or Kubiak being QUOTED about accepting a 2nd round pick. I believe it was only in the veiled presumptive context of the writer(s). Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Neither the Vikings or the Texans have gone on record that a Rosenfels trade has been discussed, much less the terms. Just reports citing sources. But, that's typical of any trade that does or doesn't happen.

badboy
03-27-2008, 01:54 PM
Neither the Vikings or the Texans have gone on record that a Rosenfels trade has been discussed, much less the terms. Just reports citing sources. But, that's typical of any trade that does or doesn't happen.McClain said Texans responded "a second round" is what I heard on radio. His pipeline inside the Texans is better than ever.

Lucky
03-27-2008, 02:24 PM
McClain said Texans responded "a second round" is what I heard on radio. His pipeline inside the Texans is better than ever.
Yeah, but he couldn't get a quote on that from anyone from the Texans. Which is what CloakNNNdagger was asking for.

TEXANRED
03-27-2008, 05:19 PM
I just liked what I saw in the preseason game when he played against us. He was big, strong can move well and had a live arm. Most of my opinion comes from my own observation so that wiki means nothing to me. Keep in mind that I liked Rohan Davey too.... :heart:

And Vince Young, don't forget about him.:lion: