PDA

View Full Version : Just Fix The **** OL


beerlover
03-16-2008, 10:32 AM
this is a great opportunity to complete laying the foundation for a quality OL that can compete for many Sundays to come. Looking @ my current board with the draft just a little outside one month away -
1. Chris Long DE 6-4, 285 Virginia
2. Glenn Dorsey DT 6-2, 300 LSU
3. Matt Ryan QB 6-4, 220 Boston College
4. Jake Long OT 6-7, 320 Michigan
5. Darren McFadden RB 6-1, 215 Arkansas
6. Vernon Gholston DE 6-4, 260 Ohio State
7. Sedric Ellis DT 6-2, 295 USC
8. Ryan Clady OT 6-5, 320 Boise State
9. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie CB 6-1, 185 Tennessee State
10. Leodis McKelvin CB 5-11, 190 Troy
11. Derrick Harvey DE 6-4, 245 Florida
12. Chris Williams OT 6-5, 320 Vanderbilt
13. Rashard Mendenhall RB 5-11,195 Illinois
14. Keith Rivers LB 6-3, 220 USC
15. Branden Albert OG 6-6, 335 Virginia
16. Brian Brohm QB 6-3, 230 Louisville
17. Phillip Merling DE 6-5, 272 Clemson
18. Mike Jenkins CB 5-11, 200 South Florida
19. Jonathan Stewart RB 5-11, 235 Oregon
20. Malcolm Kelly WR 6-4, 220 Oklahoma
21. Aqib Talib DB 6-1, 205 Kansas
22. Jeff Otah OT 6-7, 340 Pittsburgh
23. Kentwan Balmer DT 6-5, 308 North Carolina
24. Devin Thomas WR 6-1, 215 Michigan State
25. Antoine Cason CB 6-0, 191 Arizona
26. DeSean Jackson WR 5-11, 165 California
27. Kenny Phillips FS 6-1, 205 Miami
28. Quentin Groves DE 6-4, 255 Auburn
29. Dan Connor LB 6-2, 233 Penn State
30. Limas Sweed WR 6-4, 215 Texas
31. Chris Johnson RB 5-11, 200 East Carolina
32. Joe Flacco QB 6-7, 236 Delaware

Pittsburgh LT Jeff Otah would be a nice compliment to Charles Spencer (Pitt). if he recover 100% or not. Jeff Otahs value here is good (may be rated higher) then in the 3rd rd. take another Pitt lineman OT/OG Mike McGlynn who played both RT & LG, lacks ideal size @ 6-4 311 for tackle but can serve back-up role as the Texans swing tackle (added value). would project to RG position vacated by Weary. this covers your bases @ tackle/guard with only Center position to fill which could be addressed in the 4th rd. if the Texans get lucky again (4th rd. being very fruitfull for the Texans Daniels/Bennett) Marshall has a very unique center prospect that if available could be a great fit, Doug Legursky 6-3 312 if he doesn't blow scouts away @ his pro-day March 21st.

I know not going to happen but these three moves in one draft would really make a statement, providing Gibbs tools with which to transform the Texans offensive line into a dominant one. A real key to next season is keeping Schaub healthy & upright, establishing a solid running game with continuity across the line.

ChampionTexan
03-16-2008, 11:05 AM
I know not going to happen but these three moves in one draft would really make a statement, providing Gibbs tools with which to transform the Texans offensive line into a dominant one. A real key to next season is keeping Schaub healthy & upright, establishing a solid running game with continuity across the line.

I've heard good things, about Otah, but I've also heard that he's most likely suited for RT in the NFL. Since I'm not by any stretch a personnel evaluator, if that's the direction the Texans go in round 1, then I'm very happy.

As far as making a statement by choosing OL's in rounds 1, 3 & 4 - who are we making a statement to? If it's Gibbs, I'm guessing whatever statements he needed were taken care of at the time of his hiring. If it's the other NFL teams, I think the only place you can make a statement to them is on the field. If it's the media and fans, then you're done before you start if that's who your most worried about. I don't care about statements, I care about good solid line play. If the media and/or fanbase gripes, whines, screams, and hollers because we didn't address the O-Line "enough" - screw 'em. If Gibbs and his system are supposed to mean you get more from less (via both the structure of the system and the coaching up of the players), why not take advantage of that and use one or two of these picks to upgrade one of the many other areas (in addition to offensive line) that could use some help?

Vinny
03-16-2008, 11:46 AM
I'm gonna shoot myself in the head if we draft Jeff "Herman Munster/Todd Wade" Otah. Dude can't seem to bend at the hips...doesn't seem like he would work in a zbs.

nunusguy
03-16-2008, 11:50 AM
I've heard good things, about Otah, but I've also heard that he's most likely suited for RT in the NFL.
Interesting that you should say that because that's what I've heard from Day One about the top rated OT, Jake Long, because many feel he doesn't have the feet, the quickness, or agility to be the elite pass-blocker needed to be a LT in the NFL and therefor he's more suited for RT. And that's why I remain puzzled that he's the top-rated OT, and I'm predicting that Ryan Clady and maybe even Chris Williams will be drafted before J.Long.

Vinny
03-16-2008, 11:55 AM
Interesting that you should say that because that's what I've heard from Day One about the top rated OT, Jake Long, because many feel he doesn't have the feet, the quickness, or agility to be the elite pass-blocker needed to be a LT in the NFL and therefor he's more suited for RT. And that's why I remain puzzled that he's the top-rated OT, and I'm predicting that Ryan Clady and maybe even Chris Williams will be drafted before J.Long.You are totally overthinking this and paying too much attention to the talking heads looking to nitpick the hell out of the players in the dead months. It's pretty obvious that nobody holds a candle to Long...he just destroys defenders at the point of attack....if you have seen him play a few times he is pretty darn impressive.

nunusguy
03-16-2008, 11:55 AM
I'm gonna shoot myself in the head if we draft Jeff "Herman Munster/Todd Wade" Otah. Dude can't seem to bend at the hips...doesn't seem like he would work in a zbs.

Correct me if I'm wrong V, but I think you're a big fan of LZ and he thinks enough of Otah that he's got him going #15 (3 spots before the Texans pick) to Detroit in his latest mock. Thoughts on LZs assessment of Otah ?

Vinny
03-16-2008, 12:03 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong V, but I think you're a big fan of LZ and he thinks enough of Otah that he's got him going #15 (3 spots before the Texans pick) to Detroit in his latest mock. Thoughts on LZs assessment of Otah ?Just because Lance likes someone doesn't mean that I drop my opinion of the guy and just adopt Lance's opinion of him. Lance is very credible but like myself, he is wrong on prospects too you know. Otah has huge upside at RT but I'd like a pick that can play well right off the bat....at LT. If you like Max Starks you will like him but he isn't a very good LT either.

TheRealJoker
03-16-2008, 12:16 PM
I hope Branden Albert drops to 18.

nunusguy
03-16-2008, 12:31 PM
I hope Branden Albert drops to 18.
Notwithstand the fact that Albert played mainly guard in college, many are still touting Albert as one of the best LT prospects in this Draft, given his athleticism, good feet, and excellent length (6'6" & 35 "). But since he was mainly a guard, he is a very good bet to be on the Board for the Texans at #18.
Most teams are usually trying to trade back to acquire additional picks, including the Texans. Best case scenario for them IMO: move back to mid or
late twenties for an additional pick or 2 and select either Albert or Sam Baker, one or both of whom should still be on the Board.

ChampionTexan
03-16-2008, 12:40 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong V, but I think you're a big fan of LZ and he thinks enough of Otah that he's got him going #15 (3 spots before the Texans pick) to Detroit in his latest mock. Thoughts on LZs assessment of Otah ?

LZ had the Texans taking J. Stewart (pre Chris Brown signing if that means anything), and said in the comments section of his mock draft that if Otah and Stewart were both there when the Texans picked, he still saw the Texans taking Stewart. This was also before the news about Stewart's toe surgery broke, and I haven't heard/seen what (if anything) he's said about the Texans first pick since then.

I don't know if it's the ZBS or other issues, but LZ's mock draft positioning of Otah and Victor's opinion are not necessarily in conflict.

FWIW, I'm in 100% agreeement with the comment on Brandon Albert too. I'd love to have him here. The best thing about the Texans offseason to date is that while there's still plenty of weaknesses to be addressed in the draft, none of them is so glaring they have to reach. They can eliminate QB, WR, TE (if only because the TE crop is relatively weak this year), and pretty much go for the BPA from what's left.

alphajoker
03-16-2008, 12:44 PM
I believe that with the hiring of Alex Gibbs, the Texans are already on their way to fixing the OL. I really think we go secondary in the 1st round, but that's just my opinion. :twocents:

nunusguy
03-16-2008, 01:32 PM
I don't know if it's the ZBS or other issues, but LZ's mock draft positioning of Otah and Victor's opinion are not necessarily in conflict.

Fair point.

BSofA04
03-16-2008, 01:44 PM
I'm gonna shoot myself in the head if we draft Jeff "Herman Munster/Todd Wade" Otah. Dude can't seem to bend at the hips...doesn't seem like he would work in a zbs.

Thank you! I've said months ago that Otah won't work in the zone blocking system, to which I was told that he had "sound feet", "quick first step" etc. He's done nothing but hurt his stock since the combine with a lackluster performance. I will say that he was very unimpressive during his drills and probably a better fit for a power running game.

BSofA04
03-16-2008, 01:58 PM
Beerlover...although I'm not sold on Otah being suitable for our team, there's no doubt he has the tools to succeed in the right system. IMO, Williams would be our best option. Unfortunantly, the rest of the NFL has taken notice these past few months, making it less likely he'll get to #18.

Brandon Albert would be a tremendous draft prospect for our ZB system, seeing that he has the lateral quickness and great intial punch to project as a LT. If we could possibly acquire a second round pick, I would love to see the Texans to consider Sam Baker (as a guard only) or even C Mike Pollak. We'd have a young, talented offensive line to compliment our young defensive line.

beerlover
03-16-2008, 02:13 PM
y'all could be wrong too. to me Otah is a bit of a project but worth the investment. He can make tremendous strides under Gibbs & mentored by Ephraim Salaam who will be the starting LT @ least in the beginning of the season regardless who they select. As some have noticed I have Albert rated higher, why? because he can start day one @ either LG/RG he can also be your swing tackle. thats a win-win, ideal pick for this franchise but he's got to still be there. :cool:

bottom line we need to discuss the OL situation (because there is gonna be a run on cb's so the Texans if unable to trade down may be reaching for one @ #18) with the draft fast approaching. I certainly don't want to upset V but its also nice feedback to get his take/response as well the rest of you, good job. :thumbup

every year we have a chance to make a statement (beleive it or not other teams are now watching the Texans moves with interest) for years its been focused on the defensive side & while its paying dividends don't forget about the offensive trenches. the Texans need to ensure their QB's protection, I'm going to stand firm on that pedestal, the Texans need an infusion of talent @ all three positions, OT, OG & C. they're finding out its not so easy anymore in free agency, the landscape has changed since Gibbs last duty now more than ever you need to build the line through the draft. :twocents:

BSofA04
03-16-2008, 02:17 PM
Very true. I think what excites everyone about this draft is that it's pretty clear as to whom we are looking to pick. It's a matter of waiting to see who we select. Gibbs doesn't exactly have the luxury of a fantastic o-line here. I don't think anyone would have some serious beef with the Texans when they choose a LT.

BSofA04
03-16-2008, 05:50 PM
Here's a great video of the top offensive lineman in the draft during their combine workouts. Give me Albert or Williams!!!!!!
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d806d77cb

beerlover
03-16-2008, 06:42 PM
Here's a great video of the top offensive lineman in the draft during their combine workouts. Give me Albert or Williams!!!!!!
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d806d77cb

nice overview :thumbup

I have Williams rated #12 & Branden Albert #15

Otah is the next OL who should come off the board #15 or thereafter :)

here is something interesting I dug up concerning Jeff "Herman Munster/Todd Wade" Otah. HC Dave Wannstedt has quite the impressive resume spanning a 32-year coaching career, he has been a part of 10 bowl teams, six NFL playoff teams, two college national champions (Pittsburgh in 1976 and Miami in 1987) and one Super Bowl champion (Dallas in 1992) not to mention HC for the Miami Dolphins 2001-2004 coaching influences range from Johnny Rogers to Jimmy Johnson. now why bring all this up & how does it relate to Jeff "Herman Munster/Todd Wade" Otah? well because Coach Dave Wannstedt said he is the "best blocker I've ever coached."

In High School he focused mostly on basketball & had to be convinced to try out for the football team his senior year he was not recruited coming out of the prep ranks and enrolled at Valley Forge Military Academy in 2004. At Valley Forge, Otah started 17 consecutive games over two seasons, where he was rated the 26th-best junior college offensive lineman by Scout.com and 31st by Rivals.com. He was a two-time All-Seaboard Conference choice and was selected the league's Most Valuable Player in 2003. He led the team to a pair of conference co-championships and also lettered twice in basketball. He averaged nearly 19 points and 12 rebounds per game during his hoops career at Valley Forge.

Otah enrolled at Pittsburgh and immediately took over the demanding left tackle position in 2006. He started all 12 games, delivering 91 knockdowns with 13 touchdown-resulting blocks. He allowed four sacks and one quarterback pressure while recording one solo tackle and recovering a pair of fumbles. The winner of the team's Ed Conway Award in 2007, given to the team's most improved player, Otah garnered All-Big East Conference honors as a senior. He produced 101 knockdowns, with 13 of those blocks leading to touchdowns. He finished with an 82% grade for blocking consistency, allowing four pressures and 8 1/2 stops for losses. - NFL Draft Scout

what does it all mean? how do you rate a raw talent @ such a high demand position in the NFL? its like the saying goes "he who hesitates is lost" I really hope Texans don't hesitate if they have the opportunity to draft a franchise LT. I beleive this could be the year :soapbox:

nunusguy
03-16-2008, 06:59 PM
I dunno, but had we not won that meaningless game at the end of the year
when the Jags played all their reserves, we probably would have been assured of getting one of the top OTs (or CBs) in the Draft.
BTW, how'd we finish last year, 8-8 or 7-9 ? That 2007 record is pretty meaningles right now I'd say, except for what effect it had on the position we pick in the Draft next month.

BSofA04
03-16-2008, 07:12 PM
I dunno, but had we not won that meaningless game at the end of the year
when the Jags played all their reserves, we probably would have been assured of getting one of the top OTs (or CBs) in the Draft.
BTW, how'd we finish last year, 8-8 or 7-9 ? That 2007 record is pretty meaningles right now I'd say, except for what effect it had on the position we pick in the Draft next month.

8-8 meant a lot to everyone around here. I see your point, but psychologically 8-8 feels a helluva lot better than 7-9. We arn't a losing team for the first time. But yes, it would be great to be in a position to pickup a premier franchise tackle but it's also a good sign that we're not picking that high.

beerlover
03-16-2008, 11:04 PM
BTW, how'd we finish last year, 8-8 or 7-9 ? That 2007 record is pretty meaningles right now I'd say, except for what effect it had on the position we pick in the Draft next month.

I have a sneaking suspicion our selection order will continue to decline & thats a positive. doesn't mean we can't still add great players, give me the 32nd pick cause you know what just happen'ed :winky:

& the best way to get there is to address our OL & do a better job running the ball & protecting the QB.

BSofA04
03-16-2008, 11:11 PM
I have a sneaking suspicion our selection order will continue to decline & thats a positive. doesn't mean we can't still add great players, give me the 32nd pick cause you know what just happen'ed :winky:

& the best way to get there is to address our OL & do a better job running the ball & protecting the QB.

QFT and rep'd

damn, apparently I have to spread rep....

nunusguy
03-17-2008, 09:04 AM
8-8 meant a lot to everyone around here. I see your point, but psychologically 8-8 feels a helluva lot better than 7-9. We arn't a losing team for the first time. But yes, it would be great to be in a position to pickup a premier franchise tackle but it's also a good sign that we're not picking that high.

Had that Jags still been scrapping for a playoff spot in that last game of the year at Reliant and we had beat them and all of their front-line players that
day, that would have been an important, meaningful win for us that also left us at 8-8 for the first time. I'm all for that. Very positive way to end the season.
But on the other hand, playing our starters for the whole game
while the Jags rested theirs meant a meaningless, hollow victory that could mean the difference between us getting either LT Chris Williams or CB Dominique B-C or another outstanding prospect (pick the player you wanted
but we end up missing by a couple positions).

beerlover
03-17-2008, 09:52 AM
from another thread (infantrycak) -http://www.texanstalk.com/component/option,com_wrapper/Itemid,4/

player----sacks---false starts---holds

Salaam----10-------3---------3 (16 game, starter)
Pitts-------2.5-----3---------4 (16 game, starter)
Flanagan---2-------2---------0 (13 game, starter) released
McKinney---1-------0---------0 (3 game, starter)
Weary-----.5-------1---------0 (8 game, starter) UFA
Studdard--.5-------0----------0 (3 game, spot duty)
Briesel-----0-------1----------0 (4 game, over Studdard)
Winston---3.5------7---------0 (16 game, starter)

Hook'er
03-17-2008, 10:35 AM
this is a great opportunity to complete laying the foundation for a quality OL that can compete for many Sundays to come. Looking @ my current board with the draft just a little outside one month away -
1. Chris Long DE 6-4, 285 Virginia
2. Glenn Dorsey DT 6-2, 300 LSU
3. Matt Ryan QB 6-4, 220 Boston College
4. Jake Long OT 6-7, 320 Michigan
5. Darren McFadden RB 6-1, 215 Arkansas
6. Vernon Gholston DE 6-4, 260 Ohio State
7. Sedric Ellis DT 6-2, 295 USC
8. Ryan Clady OT 6-5, 320 Boise State
9. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie CB 6-1, 185 Tennessee State
10. Leodis McKelvin CB 5-11, 190 Troy
11. Derrick Harvey DE 6-4, 245 Florida
12. Chris Williams OT 6-5, 320 Vanderbilt
13. Rashard Mendenhall RB 5-11,195 Illinois
14. Keith Rivers LB 6-3, 220 USC
15. Branden Albert OG 6-6, 335 Virginia
16. Brian Brohm QB 6-3, 230 Louisville
17. Phillip Merling DE 6-5, 272 Clemson
18. Mike Jenkins CB 5-11, 200 South Florida
19. Jonathan Stewart RB 5-11, 235 Oregon
20. Malcolm Kelly WR 6-4, 220 Oklahoma
21. Aqib Talib DB 6-1, 205 Kansas
22. Jeff Otah OT 6-7, 340 Pittsburgh
23. Kentwan Balmer DT 6-5, 308 North Carolina
24. Devin Thomas WR 6-1, 215 Michigan State
25. Antoine Cason CB 6-0, 191 Arizona
26. DeSean Jackson WR 5-11, 165 California
27. Kenny Phillips FS 6-1, 205 Miami
28. Quentin Groves DE 6-4, 255 Auburn
29. Dan Connor LB 6-2, 233 Penn State
30. Limas Sweed WR 6-4, 215 Texas
31. Chris Johnson RB 5-11, 200 East Carolina
32. Joe Flacco QB 6-7, 236 Delaware

Pittsburgh LT Jeff Otah would be a nice compliment to Charles Spencer (Pitt). if he recover 100% or not. Jeff Otahs value here is good (may be rated higher) then in the 3rd rd. take another Pitt lineman OT/OG Mike McGlynn who played both RT & LG, lacks ideal size @ 6-4 311 for tackle but can serve back-up role as the Texans swing tackle (added value). would project to RG position vacated by Weary. this covers your bases @ tackle/guard with only Center position to fill which could be addressed in the 4th rd. if the Texans get lucky again (4th rd. being very fruitfull for the Texans Daniels/Bennett) Marshall has a very unique center prospect that if available could be a great fit, Doug Legursky 6-3 312 if he doesn't blow scouts away @ his pro-day March 21st.

I know not going to happen but these three moves in one draft would really make a statement, providing Gibbs tools with which to transform the Texans offensive line into a dominant one. A real key to next season is keeping Schaub healthy & upright, establishing a solid running game with continuity across the line.

I hope we pick thhe guy at 18 on that board, Mike Jenkins!:)

threetoedpete
03-17-2008, 02:37 PM
I hope Branden Albert drops to 18.

I'd be ok with the pick. He has the potentilal to kick to OLT in a pinch. I do not believe anyone we have currently on the roster...does.

When they say Long doesn't have the feet to play OLT, what they are saying is that he doen't have elite feet like Joe Thomas did last year....Long is a very elite tackle...he can play OLT and flurish there.. He just won't be able to beat the elite speed rushers every passing down. There's only a hand full of guys who can.
He's the cleanest player on the board. anyone with one of the top five picks would be justified in taking the guy...including Miami.

beerlover
03-17-2008, 03:05 PM
the Texans have addressed Center, that opens up at least a 4th rd. slot while removing only a 6th. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5626217.html thank you R. Smith :)

TheRealJoker
03-17-2008, 03:11 PM
the Texans have addressed Center, that opens up at least a 4th rd. slot while removing only a 6th. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5626217.html thank you R. Smith :)

One of the biggest needs of the offseason has been addressed. Freeing us up even more to take BPA...

PS: Isn't it always nice to get a starter in the 6th round?!?!?!

beerlover
03-17-2008, 03:17 PM
One of the biggest needs of the offseason has been addressed. Freeing us up even more to take BPA...

PS: Isn't it always nice to get a starter in the 6th round?!?!?!

this is a major move to Just Fix The **** OL.

TexanSam
03-17-2008, 03:23 PM
I'd be ok with the pick. He h@s the potentil@l to kick to OLT in @ pinch. I do not believe @nyone we h@ve currently on the roster...does.

When they s@y Long doesn't h@ve the feet to pl@y OLT, wh@t they @re s@ying is th@t he doen't h@ve elite feet like Joe Thom@s did l@st ye@r....Long is @ very elite t@ckle...he c@n pl@y OLT @nd flurish there.. He just won't be @ble to be@t the elite speed rushers every down. There's only @ h@nd full of guys who c@n.
He's the cle@nest plyer on the bo@rd. @nyone with one of the top five picks would be justified in t@king the guy...including Mi@mi.

Why all the "@'s?"

beerlover
03-17-2008, 03:23 PM
if Gibbs thinks Alberts can develop @ LT or Otah is available the Texans would not have to use any more picks this draft on the OL, consider it Just Fixed.

beerlover
03-17-2008, 04:01 PM
Myers was the 200th pick in 05. the Texans used the 151st on Hodgdon (released) now the 6th rd. pick in 08 will be somewhere around #193.

badboy
03-17-2008, 04:16 PM
Happy to see we got Myers. IMO Otah is great straight ahead, push the Dline back that might have excelled under a Mike Sherman as would have Spencer. The latter supposedly had(has) good lateral movement allowing Spencer to slide with the DE. Injury may have eliminated that. Otah does not have it. In ZBS, I see a Baker if you want to go #18 for him (I don't as he should go 2nd round) or Heath Benedict 6'5" 326 but 5.07 compared to Otah 5.66 & Benedict has good laterals. Even Tony Hills in 3rd or hopefully 4th round would be my pick over Otah.

Anyone heard if the FS Crowder singed with anyone yet? Last I heard was Texans interested but he had other visits scheduled.