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beerlover
12-03-2004, 08:54 PM
Who will win the Heisman?
&
Who should win the Heisman?

Matt Leinart QB Southern Cal will win the Heisman, thanks to being on the #1 team with Reggie Bush as a weapon. Very similar to Carson Palmer & I guess thats what attracts young recruits to these big high profile programs.

Alex Smith should win the Heisman, he's managed to get his boss promoted (Urban Meyer) finished his bachelors degree as a 20-year-old sophomore, now working on completing his Masters Alex has led his team to a perfect season plus a probable BCS bowl bid. Not bad, but will it be enough to sway voters over made for the NFL Leinart?

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/heisman.htm

Reddevil63
12-03-2004, 09:09 PM
Who will? Leinart

Who should? Cedric Benson or Alex Smith

MarleyFan
12-03-2004, 10:45 PM
I thought Adrian Peterson was an easy pick, but all I hear is Leinart.

beerlover
12-03-2004, 11:13 PM
I thought Adrian Peterson was an easy pick, but all I hear is Leinart.

that would be a should in your case :rofl:

Adrian Peterson is an awesome prospect but his disadvantage of being a true freshman, on the same team with last years Heisman Trophy winner Jason White along with the fact Oklahoma is not the clear cut #1 team in the country (USC) conspires against him.

Reddevil63
12-03-2004, 11:26 PM
I thought Adrian Peterson was an easy pick, but all I hear is Leinart.
YPG is still below Cedric Benson and OU without Peterson would still be undefeated. Can you imagine UT without Benson???

Huge
12-04-2004, 09:16 AM
Lienart will win it.

Benson should win it.

For those that feel Peterson deserves it over Benson...

Peterson - 286 carries, 1,671 yards (5.8 abg), 12 TDs, 3 catches, 6 yards
Benson - 303 carries, 1,764 yards (5.8 avg), 19 TDs, 22 catches, 179 yards, 1 TD

Now factor in which player had the better passing game to help take some pressure off then tell me which player deserves it more.

WWJD
12-04-2004, 09:32 AM
Speaking as a Longhorn homer I'd love to see Cedric win it.. I don't think it will happen though.

I'm sort of wondering why Jason White isn't mentioned more. He's lead the Sooners to all wins this year, he's been steady as far as I know and I think he's just as good as the USC guy. And I despise OU but in fairness the guy has been rock solid this year.

texasguy346
12-04-2004, 09:45 AM
I think White and Peterson are at a disadvantage because they're teamates, and they'll likely lose some votes because they didn't lead their teams to 11-0 by themselves. They relied upon one another, and although that may be true of every canidate it's not blatantly obvious on every Heisman ballot. I think Alex Smith SHOULD win the Heisman, but I think that Leinhart WILL win the Heisman.

TEXANS84
12-04-2004, 10:37 AM
Peterson or Benson should not win it....Alex Smith is true deserving of the award. But it is somewhat of a lock that Leinart will win it...with the LA press and all.

LiveForTheGame
12-04-2004, 02:24 PM
Lienart will win it.

Benson should win it.

For those that feel Peterson deserves it over Benson...

Peterson - 286 carries, 1,671 yards (5.8 abg), 12 TDs, 3 catches, 6 yards
Benson - 303 carries, 1,764 yards (5.8 avg), 19 TDs, 22 catches, 179 yards, 1 TD

Now factor in which player had the better passing game to help take some pressure off then tell me which player deserves it more.

Don't get me wrong because I'm a Cedric Benson and UT fan, but what Cedric has done is all while being a senior. Peterson is a true freshman running the ball just as well. Also, OU doesn't use their runningbacks as receivers as much as Texas does, and Peterson split time early on in the season. All I'm saying is there is an arguement either way.

This year is difficult because there are a lot of players that have had strong season and multiple players that have had very impressive seasons.

I don't know who will win it and I don't know who should win it, but I'm anxious to see who does.

Huge
12-04-2004, 07:24 PM
So Cedric should be punished because he's an upperclassman? And you can't use the argument that Peterson split carries because there were a couple of games in which Cedric didn't see the 4th qtr. Heck, against North Texas he saw one drive in the 2nd half and was done for the night.

And OU does use their RBs in the passing game. See Kejuan Jones' 17 catches, JD Runnels' 13 catches. DJ Wolfe (their other true freshman RB) caught as many passes as Peterson. And you can imagine how many fewer snaps he saw.

I've maintained all along that Peterson is the better talent. But he has not been a better RB than Benson this year. OU w/o Peterson might have 1 loss. Texas w/o Benson has 3 losses...easily.

I also find it funny that so many media type are quick to point out Benson's performance (125 total yards, 0 TDs) against OU and use that as justification for not giving him their vote. It doesn't matter that Jason White had 3 turnovers that game, less than 120 yards passing as well as 0 TDs, he's still a candidate. So why is Benson being held to a higher standard?

How many TDs did Leinart produce today against UCLA? Think this game hurt his chances like they say the OU game hurt Benson's?

Nawzer
12-04-2004, 07:28 PM
Who will win: Matt Leinart.

Who should win: Jason White.

dan7
12-04-2004, 08:53 PM
Who will win: Matt Leinart

Who should win: Cedric Benson

Lucky
12-04-2004, 09:35 PM
So why is Benson being held to a higher standard?
Because his team was shutout and he's lost 4 straight to the Sooners. To the victor go the spoils.

Jonathan_Vilma
12-04-2004, 09:47 PM
I originally thought that it would be Peterson to win the Heisman mainly because the way the kid plays the game and lights up teams. But I also don't really follow college football other than players the jets should draft.

beerlover
12-04-2004, 10:40 PM
I originally thought that it would be Peterson to win the Heisman mainly because the way the kid plays the game and lights up teams. But I also don't really follow college football other than players the jets should draft.

this is off subject but for years those of us who follow the draft get a kick out of Jet Fan at these funtions, I mean you guys are hilarious. I love all the enthusiasm & passion, the moaning & groaning really classic stuff. So have the Jets ever drafted a Heisman winner? Oh well I guess either too good or too smart. Look forward to the game in a few hours, you can assess your draft picks then against ours :whoohoo:

regarding Heisman today, I think we saw some great performances, just not from the front runners, so its unlikely things will change. There seems to be more really great running backs this year than I can remember in some time which may affectivly cancel each other out. I mean look at today alone how do you chose, you've got J.J. Arrington rushing for 254 yds on 31 carries, Reggie Bush rushed for 204 yds on 15 carries & Adrien Peterson 171 yards on 28 attempts. It seems more confusing after this weekend than ever to determine who should win the Heisman.

LiveForTheGame
12-05-2004, 01:36 AM
So Cedric should be punished because he's an upperclassman? And you can't use the argument that Peterson split carries because there were a couple of games in which Cedric didn't see the 4th qtr. Heck, against North Texas he saw one drive in the 2nd half and was done for the night.

And OU does use their RBs in the passing game. See Kejuan Jones' 17 catches, JD Runnels' 13 catches. DJ Wolfe (their other true freshman RB) caught as many passes as Peterson. And you can imagine how many fewer snaps he saw.

I've maintained all along that Peterson is the better talent. But he has not been a better RB than Benson this year. OU w/o Peterson might have 1 loss. Texas w/o Benson has 3 losses...easily.

I also find it funny that so many media type are quick to point out Benson's performance (125 total yards, 0 TDs) against OU and use that as justification for not giving him their vote. It doesn't matter that Jason White had 3 turnovers that game, less than 120 yards passing as well as 0 TDs, he's still a candidate. So why is Benson being held to a higher standard?

How many TDs did Leinart produce today against UCLA? Think this game hurt his chances like they say the OU game hurt Benson's?

I agree. Cedric Benson is definitely more valuable to his team than Peterson. UT wouldn't be battling for a bowl spot without him. However, that just maintains my point about the man taking the snaps not being any good at QB because without Peterson OU is still top 10 with Jason White. If the voting was for the player most valuable to his team Benson should win no doubt, but it's for the best player in the game. I think that's why it's so difficult to decide because they're on different teams in different situations.

BuffSoldier
12-05-2004, 05:46 PM
Leinart will
Benson should

What I dont understand is how the experts could simply over-look Benson, just because they lost one game doesnt take anything away from his stellar year. If Benson played with a J.White or a M. Leinart he would probably be a 2000 yard rusher this year.

Huge
12-05-2004, 10:27 PM
Adrian Peterson - 1,843 ... 15 TDs
Cedric Benson - 1,764 ... 19 TDs
Michael Hart - 1,372 ... 9 TDs

Yeah, I can really see how Hart's getting the shaft. Thanks for adding so much to the conversation. :rolleyes:

MikeMc
12-08-2004, 07:24 PM
Since we are on RBs:

Benson..no, not even the best player on his team...that would be DJ!

Peterson has solid numbersdespite the fact that OU spreads the ball....Benson is the main focus of UT....don't even mention VYoung!

JJ Arrington is my candidate (RB that is). 1845 yrds, 7.0 avg, 14 TDs..played big in big games, most consistent (11 straight 100 yrd games, 7 - 150+ yrd games, scored in 9 of 11 games (3 multiple TD games). On a top team, in a top division. Carried team when star QB struggled.

It all depends on the criteria you set. Is it the QB of the top team? Best player overall (no matter position, class, or team/conference)?

I would love to see both pairs from USC & OU split the votes, and Alex Smith win it. That guy IS the reason Utah is where they are, not so much the coach as it is the player executing the plays.

Look at Alex Smith's numbers:

Passing:
2624 yrds,
66% comp
28 TD
4 Int
174.9 rating

Rushing:
120- 563 yrds (4.7 avg)
10 TDs

Team is 11-0 ranked in top 10 (BCS & Polls).

To me, he is the best player, hands down.

As for the West Coast media...come on, everyone knows that the voting lies with the East Coast!

MarleyFan
12-08-2004, 07:49 PM
JJ Arrington is my candidate (RB that is). 1845 yrds, 7.0 avg, 14 TDs..played big in big games, most consistent (11 straight 100 yrd games, 7 - 150+ yrd games, scored in 9 of 11 games (3 multiple TD games). On a top team, in a top division. Carried team when star QB struggled.


I agree on JJ Arrington, he gets absolutely no play in the Heisman consideration.

TheOgre
12-09-2004, 09:04 AM
Benson will not win it strictly based upon the OU game.

Benson is more deserving than Peterson IMO. Peterson has been up and down from week to week and has a good passing game. Benson has had only one "off" week (he still got 92 yards) against OU with almost no semblance of a passing game for much of the season.

That said, I think Leinart deserves the Heisman.

Here is what I think the Heisman should be:
Who adds the most to their team? Basically, replace the player with their backup and how would the team perform? Isn't that what the Heisman should be about? Clearly the Horns would suffer more without Benson than the Sooners would without Peterson.

WWJD
12-09-2004, 09:10 AM
I'd vote for Jason White. Shame Benson wasn't nominated though; he deserved to be.

infantrycak
12-09-2004, 09:19 AM
Here is what I think the Heisman should be:
Who adds the most to their team? Basically, replace the player with their backup and how would the team perform? Isn't that what the Heisman should be about? Clearly the Horns would suffer more without Benson than the Sooners would without Peterson.

I thought it was supposed to be the best college player. IMO there is a difference between MVP and best player. The MVP is the person you described. The best player is just that, the best player regardless of whether his back up could fill is fantastic or poor. A lot of times it may be the same person, but not necessarily.

Huge
12-09-2004, 09:29 AM
Since we are on RBs:

Benson..no, not even the best player on his team...that would be DJ!

Peterson has solid numbersdespite the fact that OU spreads the ball....Benson is the main focus of UT....don't even mention VYoung!

JJ Arrington is my candidate (RB that is). 1845 yrds, 7.0 avg, 14 TDs..played big in big games, most consistent (11 straight 100 yrd games, 7 - 150+ yrd games, scored in 9 of 11 games (3 multiple TD games). On a top team, in a top division. Carried team when star QB struggled.

It all depends on the criteria you set. Is it the QB of the top team? Best player overall (no matter position, class, or team/conference)?

I would love to see both pairs from USC & OU split the votes, and Alex Smith win it. That guy IS the reason Utah is where they are, not so much the coach as it is the player executing the plays.

Look at Alex Smith's numbers:

Passing:
2624 yrds,
66% comp
28 TD
4 Int
174.9 rating

Rushing:
120- 563 yrds (4.7 avg)
10 TDs

Team is 11-0 ranked in top 10 (BCS & Polls).

To me, he is the best player, hands down.

As for the West Coast media...come on, everyone knows that the voting lies with the East Coast!

Peterson had great numbers despite the fact OU spreads the ball? Look, either you get the carries or you don't. Peterson (314 carries) got the carries. Having a QB (White) representing your team in New York as well only shows that you had a lot of support in getting those numbers. Quick, name any level of post-season award that Vince Young has been named to.

I agree what you said about DJ and Arrington. The fact that none of the 3 are going to New York speaks volumes about what the award has become.

Give me:

Cedric Benson
Derrick Johnson
Braylon Edwards
JJ Arrington
Marcus McNeill

And we'd kick the **** out of the actual 5 Heisman finalists.

TheOgre
12-09-2004, 09:49 AM
The award is almost always given the a RB or QB on an undefeated or one-loss team. That isn't necessarily the best player.

I was happy when Charles Woodson won it. It showed they were willing to look outside the skill positions to find the best player. That seems like ancient history now.

Huge
12-09-2004, 09:52 AM
Yeah but Woodson also played special teams and WR. He would not have sniffed the award had he not played those roles.

TheOgre
12-09-2004, 09:57 AM
Yeah but Woodson also played special teams and WR. He would not have sniffed the award had he not played those roles.

Agreed. The award is a joke IMO. I prefer the Butkus, Lombardi, Doak Walker, etc. The Heisman is the most political award in all of sports.

MikeMc
12-09-2004, 09:37 PM
Huge, you do not think Alex Smith is deserving?? Come on! Of the 5, he would get my vote. Benson did himself in with all the "off-field" problems. Now I know you are a UT fan, but don't be such a homer. Benson is great and all, but the award is for the best college player...he is not even the best player on his team...or in his conference....how is he even the slightest bit deserving of the Heisman?

Without Alex Smith, Utah would be.....BYU or Utah St!

WWJD
12-09-2004, 09:39 PM
Benson won the Doak Walker award.

Huge
12-09-2004, 10:48 PM
Top 3 in rushing.
Top 3 in scoring.
Team is playing in a BCS bowl.
Most valuable player on his team.

Does that not qualify you for the Heisman? If not, what else would he have needed to do?

Off the field problems? Like what? There wasn't any mention of off the field problems when he was considered a leading Heisman contender before UT lost to OU. They can get by w/o Derrick Johnson. W/o Benson, true freshman Ramonce Taylor would've been starting. You can dispute this is if you want. But that would be more of a display of ignorance than bias on your part.

Do I think Smith is deserving? Yes. But I don't think he should win it. Did you have BJ Symons as your Heisman favorite last season?

And I'm not sure if you've been keeping up with current events but the Heisman hasn't been awarded to the best college football player for some time now. Sure, that's who it's supposed to be awarded...but it's lost it's meaning quite some time ago.

MikeMc
12-10-2004, 12:17 AM
So why is it that Smith should not win?

Crazy numbers do not always equate to winning the Heisman (Symons)....it has a lot more to do with how well the team performed based on "your" presence. Without Alex Smith, Utah is nothing.

Without Benson, UT is fine....they have a solid OL, and a QB that would do all the running for them. Also, as many point out, the offense as struggled some this year, it was the defense that kept them in the games late (hence all the come-from-behind wins. I'm sure UT has no RB candidate if Benson goes down. I think the breaking and entering, and the other altercations would have led Mack to have a "Plan B". They seem to pluck pretty good RBs year after year. The main reason Benson went to UT was because Mack "promised" him he'd start from day one.


Huge--- Marcus McNeil? The OT from Auburn?

Huge
12-10-2004, 10:56 AM
So why is it that Smith should not win?

Other than there being more deserving players, there's no reason he shouldn't. Many will use his conference and his lack of playing top competition as a reason for not giving him their vote. And I'm okay with that because it's absolutely true. This makes the other players more deserving.

Without Benson, UT is fine....they have a solid OL, and a QB that would do all the running for them. Also, as many point out, the offense as struggled some this year, it was the defense that kept them in the games late (hence all the come-from-behind wins. I'm sure UT has no RB candidate if Benson goes down. I think the breaking and entering, and the other altercations would have led Mack to have a "Plan B". They seem to pluck pretty good RBs year after year. The main reason Benson went to UT was because Mack "promised" him he'd start from day one.

Like I said, you could debate this if you want but you'd come out looking pretty dumb for doing so. Mission accomplished.

Huge--- Marcus McNeil? The OT from Auburn?

That would be him.

beerlover
12-10-2004, 11:20 AM
great debate guys & gals. the consensous in the media is that Matt Leinart will win & Jason White should win. With that said the understory of this board seems to be who you would like to see win. Many people have voiced a strong arguement, supported with plenty of stats for Cedric Benson & Alex Smith as worthy shoulda coulda would like to see win the Heisman nominies.

as HUGE accuratly states: "And I'm not sure if you've been keeping up with current events but the Heisman hasn't been awarded to the best college football player for some time now. Sure, that's who it's supposed to be awarded...but it's lost it's meaning quite some time ago".

looking at the best College Football Player (with a few exceptions over the years) usually do not win the Heisman but are merely window dressing in NY then go on to be drafted ahead of and enjoy a more successful NFL career.

therefore its not hard to imagine both Cedric Benson & Alex Smith becoming more successful Pros than either White or Leinart

Huge
12-10-2004, 11:52 AM
I was just looking over the history of Heisman winners and noticed something odd.

Apparently the Heisman folks have grown so accustomed to giving the award to an offensive player (because it's simply impossible for the best player in the country to be a defensive player...right?) that they list every player's position as either "QB", "RB", or "WR". And many times, they've got the wrong offensive position for the player. Here's an example:

2001 Heisman voting
1st Eric Crouch Nebraska Sr. QB
2nd Rex Grossman Florida So. QB
3rd Ken Dorsey Miami (Fl.) Jr. QB
4th Joey Harrington Oregon Sr. RB
5th David Carr Fresno State Sr. RB
6th Antwaan Randle El Indiana So. QB
7th Roy Williams Oklahoma Sr. WR
8th Bryant McKinnie Miami (Fl.) Sr. QB
9th Dwight Freeney Syracuse Jr. RB
10th Julius Peppers North Carolina Jr. RB

Those people sure are on top of their game.

astrofan
12-10-2004, 07:44 PM
Did you have BJ Symons as your Heisman favorite last season?

yes

started for the first time as a senior and set NCAA single-season records for passing yards (5,833), most games with 400 yards in total offense (9), most yards in total offense (5,976), most passing yards per game (448.79), and most yards in total offense per game (459.69)…completed 529 of 822 attempts with 59 TDs

watch the Tech game at Ole Miss
"well its better than 660, but not as good as 662"

Huge
12-10-2004, 07:55 PM
So then you're aware of why he didn't win...right?

astrofan
12-10-2004, 08:53 PM
that doesn't make it right

Huge
12-10-2004, 09:51 PM
please. benson is a stone-cold criminal.

Thanks for elaborating. Since I'm using sarcasm, I'll ask again. Like what?

that doesn't make it right

It's not right that a QB with 822 passing attempts didn't win the Heisman?

astrofan
12-10-2004, 10:22 PM
huge,
are you talking quantity vs quality
59 TDs should count for something, or is that too many

here's one for you

a legitimate Doak Walker winner
196 carries for 1582 yards 24 TDs 8.1 ypc
32 catches 334 yards 4 TDs 10.4 avg
1 TD every 8 carries

a "media" Doak Walker winner
303 carries for 1764 yards 19 TDs 5.8 ypc
22 catches 179 yards 1 TD 8.1 avg
1 TD every 16 carries

I almost laugh at this silliness

texasguy346
12-11-2004, 09:14 AM
Thanks for elaborating. Since I'm using sarcasm, I'll ask again. Like what?


I know this question wasn't directed at me, but didn't Benson get charged with possession of marijuana around his junior year?

Huge
12-11-2004, 01:20 PM
I know this question wasn't directed at me, but didn't Benson get charged with possession of marijuana around his junior year?

it's not the marijuana. it's also assault, obstruction of justice, ...


he pulled a ron artest^2. he beat the **** out of a guy who he thought had stolen his TV. not "spur of the moment"- a planned assault. the guy did not have his TV- he was just someone who lived in their apartment complex who was "different looking" they knocked his door down to enter his apartment. multiple felonies.

1. He was never charged with possession of marijuana. He was in an apartment of a girl that had marijuana in her purse and paraphenalia in a closet. They also tried a minor in possession of alcohol because there was some beer in her refrigerator. In otherwords, the police could knock down my door right now and take my kids in because they're all 3 under 21 and I have beer in the refrigerator. Any charges that the DA thought about bringing on were dropped because he knew he didn't have a case.

2. He was never charged with assault. There was no fight between Benson and some other person.

Texas running back Cedric Benson was charged Tuesday with forcing his way into an apartment to look for a television he says was stolen from him. Benson was charged with criminal trespassing, a misdemeanor punishable by up to one year in jail and a $4,000 fine if convicted, police spokeswoman Laura Albrecht said. Benson turned himself in to the Travis County Jail and was released, said his attorney, Brian Carney. Benson, the leading rusher for the 19th-ranked Longhorns (5-2) with 498 yards and 10 touchdowns, did not practice Tuesday and coach Mack Brown said he would not start Saturday against Baylor. The player is accused of joining three other males in forcing their way into the apartment Oct. 7. Benson had reported the television was stolen from him in 2002. According to the arrest warrant, a woman who lived at the apartment told police four men knocked on the door. When she didn't answer, the men tried the doorknob before kicking in the door. The woman told police that a male with braided hair told her that her roommate had taken his plasma television and he wanted to know where it was. Benson wears his hair in dreadlocks. The woman said the men looked through the apartment for the TV and left when they didn't find it.

Odd...I don't see any mention of Benson planning an assualt. In fact, I don't see any mention of any type of assualt on anybody.

As you can see, "criminal trespassing" is hardly a "felony". Neither is possession of marijuana (even if he was convicted of it). Obstruction of justice? This one is new to me.

But if you could provide a link that describes this assault and the other felonies, I'll glady announce Cedric Benson to be a piece of trash. Finding a link shouldn't be too hard. We're talking about a Doak Walker winner with a criminal background, right?

Huge
12-11-2004, 01:49 PM
Did you not bother reading the police report? He was charged with criminal trespassing. Felony breaking and entering and misdemeanor criminal trespassing are different things. Are you aware of these differences?

Here ya go:

breaking and entering [n] - trespassing for an unlawful purpose; illegal entrance into premises with criminal intent

Now Benson's "purpose" was to recover his stolen TV. When he realized his TV wasn't in the apartment...he left. He didn't take anything with him. Hence, it wasn't "breaking and entering".

But again, any luck with that assault and "multiple felonies" link?

Huge
12-11-2004, 01:51 PM
Also, Brock Edwards (Texas Longhorn football player) was charged with assault stemming from a fraternity fight.

It (UT football players getting charged) does happen. Am I blind to other incidences? Nope. But I guarantee you're further from the truth than I am on Benson.

Vinny
12-11-2004, 02:05 PM
Benson is lucky he didn't get shot.

Huge
12-11-2004, 02:06 PM
BS. unless you're prepared to say OJ is innocent. cedric got the (darrel) royal treatment there in austin.

Which part are you claiming to be BS?

Brock Edwards was indeed charged with assault. This is simple fact. See...
University of Texas fullback Brock Edwards was sentenced to two years probation and 200 hours of community service and was ordered to pay $5,700 in restitution after pleading guilty to assault in a fraternity fight last year. Edwards, 20, pleaded guilty on Thursday. He had been charged with aggravated assault causing serious bodily injury, a felony punishable by up to 20 years in prison. The charge was reduced to misdemeanor assault at the victim's request, prosecutors said. According to Travis County Assistant District Attorney David Luna, Edwards punched Thomas Graham in the face, knocking him out, and then kicked him in the face. Graham suffered a broken nose and had reconstructive surgery, Luna said. Edwards also was fined $1,500 by state District Judge Jon Wisser.
See how easy that was to find an internet quote? That took about 37 seconds. So I'm sure you'd have no trouble finding any felonies on Benson considering he's a much higher profile player than Edwards was. Or are you dodging this for a reason?

Was Cedric given special treatment? I'd agree with that. Had he served his 8 day sentence (customary with misdemeanor criminal trespassing convictions), would you still be claiming felonies?

Huge
12-11-2004, 02:39 PM
Well okay. I guess you and I just have differing opinions about what a "stone-cold criminal" is.

Benson has pleaded guilty to misdemeanor criminal trespassing because he kicked the door down of an apartment where he thought his stolen TV was.

Outside of that, there isn't anything else on him. If that makes him a "stone-cold criminal" in your eyes...then okay. I'll just have to disagree.

beerlover
12-11-2004, 06:34 PM
the presentation ceremony is about to begin I hope they are able to squeeze in some interview time, I may weight this facet to heavy but I'm always impressed when the physcially gifted can communicate & express effectivley with people & don't seem disturbed or big headed about the whole superstar thing. If so I think you all will be impressed with Alex, what a bright young man with a clear understanding of football, unselfish & everything the Heisman should stand for.

MarleyFan
12-11-2004, 08:02 PM
Did they mention during the show that Alex Smith, and Reggie Bush were high school teamates?

beerlover
12-11-2004, 08:10 PM
yes they sure did, actually interviewed together. I see your from CA you probably know a little more information from their High School days, apparently Reggie Bush was quite the stud even back then while Alex played second fiddle. Tonight Alex edged his former teammate but next year will be even more competitive with Alex, Reggie & Peterson all returning.

MarleyFan
12-11-2004, 08:17 PM
I am in Norcal, so we do not get much info about the Southern California High Schools. But I heard earlier this year that Reggie Bush was highly recruited and only one or two D1 colleges offered Alex Smith a scolarship while they went to scout Reggie Bush.

beerlover
12-11-2004, 08:30 PM
Glad to have you a board Marley :bguitar: are the Raiders going to draft a QB this year? thought they might of taken Rothelisberger last year, but Gallery is an awesome talent as well.

nunusguy
12-11-2004, 08:35 PM
Peterson beats out teammate but finishes second to USCs Leinart.

Huge
12-11-2004, 08:48 PM
Bush was considered the #1 all-purpose RB in the country by Rivals (good judgement on Rivals part).

Alex Smith was not rated at all and considered a "2-star" (out of 5) prospect (not-so-good judgement on Rivals part).

Leinart wins, eh? Guess it had to be somebody.

MarleyFan
12-11-2004, 09:01 PM
Glad to have you a board Marley :bguitar: are the Raiders going to draft a QB this year? thought they might of taken Rothelisberger last year, but Gallery is an awesome talent as well.

I am a big Tuiasosopo fan, I hope he gets a shot at the starting job going into next year. If they keep Collins they are paying him a lot of money to be a backup.