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HoustonFrog
03-14-2008, 11:22 AM
That's what I was thinking as soon as I heard they were looking at Brown.

Yup. I mean as it is now..it is a cluster...is Green healthy..did we get a good look at Taylor before his injury...Dayne is slow and not a breakaway guy but he has done well for him...etc, etc. With how I laid it out, you definitely have upgraded and you pretty much have a pecking order without the question marks.

GP
03-14-2008, 11:22 AM
We had an awful team when Capers left. Nothing worked.

Kubiak and staff have done a great job at stabilizing our passing game.

What is it, about the running back situation, that's been so difficult for them to solve? Outside of Domanick Davis (which was a total surprise, btw) we have not had a true running back--In fact, DD was pretty good, but not a game-changer...he was a guy who grinded out yards, picked up what was needed to keep the chains moving, and rescued David Carr over and over. And I understand that Taylor came on strong at the end of the 06 season, was looking like he might be able to take the job over, but had the season-ender in camp in 07.

I'm not even a Warrick Dunn fan, but Warrick Dunn (to me) made more sense than Chris Brown. Warrick is amazingly durable, was with Gibbs, and had to be a better option than Chris Brown (regardless of contract details).

All I have to say is that I will be watching on draft day to see what positions are drafted. Gruden is stockpiling QBs and we make fun of him for it...but we're stockpiling RBs and it's OK to a lot of fans. If that's not being a blinded homer for our team, then nothing is.

If you have to stock a position as deep as we are, with RBs, then doesn't it really say "we don't know how to scout and evaluate RBs...let's just get a whole bunch of them and see how it all works out..."?

Because I have felt, over the past two seasons, that Kubiak doesn't know running back talent. It has felt like he's just nabbing players and throwing them out there to see what sticks. That's bad for the timing and continuity of the o-line.

I hope Gibbs is still a miracle worker.

El Tejano
03-14-2008, 11:30 AM
I think Dickerson was 6'3" also...he was not a normal run of the mill back and I haven't seen anyone like him since him. Calvin Hill also ran well and he ran bolt upright. Brown has good cut and run ability. He should do well here when healthy.

Chris Browns running style reminds me more of OJ Simpson. When he was playing.

Fox
03-14-2008, 11:36 AM
All I have to say is that I will be watching on draft day to see what positions are drafted. Gruden is stockpiling QBs and we make fun of him for it...but we're stockpiling RBs and it's OK to a lot of fans. If that's not being a blinded homer for our team, then nothing is.



As soon as teams start switching over to the Quarterback by committee offense in the NFL we can stop poking fun at Gruden for his QB grubbing ways. Many of the most successful running games in the league have atleast 2 good backs to carry the load, and considering the beating those guys take I won't complain about having too many backs.

dalemurphy
03-14-2008, 11:39 AM
We had an awful team when Capers left. Nothing worked.

Kubiak and staff have done a great job at stabilizing our passing game.

What is it, about the running back situation, that's been so difficult for them to solve? Outside of Domanick Davis (which was a total surprise, btw) we have not had a true running back--In fact, DD was pretty good, but not a game-changer...he was a guy who grinded out yards, picked up what was needed to keep the chains moving, and rescued David Carr over and over. And I understand that Taylor came on strong at the end of the 06 season, was looking like he might be able to take the job over, but had the season-ender in camp in 07.

I'm not even a Warrick Dunn fan, but Warrick Dunn (to me) made more sense than Chris Brown. Warrick is amazingly durable, was with Gibbs, and had to be a better option than Chris Brown (regardless of contract details).

All I have to say is that I will be watching on draft day to see what positions are drafted. Gruden is stockpiling QBs and we make fun of him for it...but we're stockpiling RBs and it's OK to a lot of fans. If that's not being a blinded homer for our team, then nothing is.

If you have to stock a position as deep as we are, with RBs, then doesn't it really say "we don't know how to scout and evaluate RBs...let's just get a whole bunch of them and see how it all works out..."?

Because I have felt, over the past two seasons, that Kubiak doesn't know running back talent. It has felt like he's just nabbing players and throwing them out there to see what sticks. That's bad for the timing and continuity of the o-line.

I hope Gibbs is still a miracle worker.


You're totally missing it! As you said, the team was awful two years ago. In addition it lost DDavis. So, the job for this staff in two seasons has been to totally repair the offensive and defensive lines, find a QB, compliment AJ, find a TE, build a LB unit, build a secondary around Dunta, and find a RB. Oh, and also teach this team how to win.

As if all of that wasn't difficult enough, they've been in cap hell because of ridiculous decisions made by the previous regime. They've successful done almost all of that list despite the cap predicament. Limited resources hasn't allowed them to do it all. RB is a position that has suffered. Last year's FA market was barron.... It was basically AGreen or Henry. They chose Green. They haven't used anything more than a 6th round pick on a RB and he didn't work out. However, in addition to two modest veteran signings: Green and Brown, they have two promising Undrafted Free Agents that may make an impact this year.

My point is, it's not that they've missed on evaluations of RBs, it's that they've been unable to spend resources on them yet.

GP
03-14-2008, 11:50 AM
Malloy, don't go there, GP thought Carr was great, thinks Kubes is a bad coach and is transitional, thinks Sage is a savior and many other things.

As far the situation. There is nothing not to like. We didn't break the bank for the guy. He was coached up in Colorado's system by Gibbs when he was with Denver. He is probably the most talented back we have now. I think the way it plays out is instead of having 4-5 RBs that you are trying to figure out, you have Brown and Green splitting carries to keep each other fresh and healthy. You then draft a guy...maybe not 1st round...and you have those 3 and maybe Taylor. It is an upgrade in talent and we don't have a logjam of 5 guys who are mediocre. That's how I see them working it.

Seriously?

You think it plays out in a way where those two guys are spelling each other? Goodness, look at Chris Brown's attendance record. Please. He's just all of a sudden going to change? No way, man. I'll take the other side of your theory and say that Darius Walker and Chris Taylor will be the ones switching in and out.

Two years in a row we have taken a gamble on a talented runner who won't be healthy enough to make a lasting contribution. And two years in a row, people are trying to rationalize and justify it.

At least with my support of Carr, there was some reasoning behind it: Could Kubiak reform David Carr in a new system...could he do what he did with other QBs?" In addition, I am not in love with Sage as you have tried to paint it: I want an open competition and a chance for the QB to win the job and to not be crowned AS HAPPENED WITH DAVID CARR. For all of the times you try to say that I lie and distort facts, you sure spend a lot of time doing the same thing to me.

Two years in a row we have posters who parrot each other and pat each other on the back in regards to us signing a worthless running back. This must be Chris Brown's last stop in the NFL for as cheap as he signed.

And, I guess we'll all be scrambling on the football websites (and this one, too) on Saturday nights and Sunday mornings...trying to find out whether Ahman or Brown is the one playing on Sunday. Is that how you want to spend your time? Trying to find out who's healthy enough to play each Sunday?

(A) Taylor had a knee issue. Is it OK? Will it aggrevate and bench him?

(B) Ahman lasts exactly three plays in each game before getting banged up.

(C) Chris Brown is a total enigma, splitting time with Henry and White.

(D) That leaves Darius Walker who was cut, re-signed, and didn't look too bad in the limited time he had with us at the end of the season. From the posts I saw, I didn't see too many people with high hopes for him. I was not anticipating anything special from him.

Our running back situation is far from being stable. Not even with a RBBC situation. Sorry to be the pessimist (again). If you guys would level out your pie-in-the-sky outlooks on the perpetually awful condition of our running back crew, then I'd shut up. But there's just not a level of honesty going on here, with yourselves and with the others on the board, in terms of how bad it is. It's not good. Period. Gibbs and LUCK will save us.

bigbrewster2000
03-14-2008, 11:52 AM
We had an awful team when Capers left. Nothing worked.

Kubiak and staff have done a great job at stabilizing our passing game.

What is it, about the running back situation, that's been so difficult for them to solve? Outside of Domanick Davis (which was a total surprise, btw) we have not had a true running back--In fact, DD was pretty good, but not a game-changer...he was a guy who grinded out yards, picked up what was needed to keep the chains moving, and rescued David Carr over and over. And I understand that Taylor came on strong at the end of the 06 season, was looking like he might be able to take the job over, but had the season-ender in camp in 07.

I'm not even a Warrick Dunn fan, but Warrick Dunn (to me) made more sense than Chris Brown. Warrick is amazingly durable, was with Gibbs, and had to be a better option than Chris Brown (regardless of contract details).What makes you think Dunn wanted to even come here? He sure seemed to sign with Tampa pretty quick. And besides that he is old.

All I have to say is that I will be watching on draft day to see what positions are drafted. Gruden is stockpiling QBs and we make fun of him for it...but we're stockpiling RBs and it's OK to a lot of fans. If that's not being a blinded homer for our team, then nothing is. Its called upgrading talent. As much as people like Walker and Taylor, one of those guys will not be on the roster come opening day.

If you have to stock a position as deep as we are, with RBs, then doesn't it really say "we don't know how to scout and evaluate RBs...let's just get a whole bunch of them and see how it all works out..."?Since when have we ever been deep at Running back?

Because I have felt, over the past two seasons, that Kubiak doesn't know running back talent. It has felt like he's just nabbing players and throwing them out there to see what sticks. That's bad for the timing and continuity of the o-line. Who in the last 2 seasons would you have brought in instead of the guys that we did?

I hope Gibbs is still a miracle worker.
Brown's contract says backup to me. And that being said, I have no understanding as to why a backup signing has you so pissed. If you want to be pissed after they draft a RB then fine, but hold off until then.

And aswer peoples questions for once. Alot of people on here ask you legitimate questions that you just blow off by continuing to repeat the rant that you started off with, and the adding nothing else to the discussion. I think for the most part we would all tolerate your specific brand of pessimism, if you didnt talk down to people so much, and just assume that you opinion is the only right one.

By the way saying that you want to fist fight people that think this is a good signing (which I do, for what it is) is rediculuos. Get over yourself. You act like you are 13 instead of 31 sometimes.

beerlover
03-14-2008, 11:55 AM
I'm willing to give Gibbs his chance to prove everyone wrong. unfortunately we have to wait 5-6 months for the season to start, thats 5-6 months to beat each other up :dangit:

GP
03-14-2008, 12:01 PM
You're totally missing it! As you said, the team was awful two years ago. In addition it lost DDavis. So, the job for this staff in two seasons has been to totally repair the offensive and defensive lines, find a QB, compliment AJ, find a TE, build a LB unit, build a secondary around Dunta, and find a RB. Oh, and also teach this team how to win.

As if all of that wasn't difficult enough, they've been in cap hell because of ridiculous decisions made by the previous regime. They've successful done almost all of that list despite the cap predicament. Limited resources hasn't allowed them to do it all. RB is a position that has suffered. Last year's FA market was barron.... It was basically AGreen or Henry. They chose Green. They haven't used anything more than a 6th round pick on a RB and he didn't work out. However, in addition to two modest veteran signings: Green and Brown, they have two promising Undrafted Free Agents that may make an impact this year.

My point is, it's not that they've missed on evaluations of RBs, it's that they've been unable to spend resources on them yet.

There's not enough drafts, for Kubiak, to obtain everything that Capers/Casserly tainted--Kubiak is squarely behind an 8-ball here. Kubiak (an offense-minded guy) has been pretty gracious to concede two straight years of 1st rounders on defense (Mario and Amobi), where it was needed the most.

But how much you want to bet that we draft ANYTHING but a RB in the 1st round this year? I will. Kubiak will not draft a RB high in the draft. Never. Not even if it's BPA at that particular spot.

There's an arrogance there, IMO. There's a Shanahan ego situation where Kubiak thinks like his mentor thinks: I can plug anybody into the system.

My big gripe is that we ain't drafting a touted RB in the 1st round. I bet we'd even pass on Mendenhall if he was there for us.

I see us going CB. Or, at least, a defensive player in some capacity.

And that's my whole beef: Due to bad management pre-Kubiak, there's simply no room for mistakes in free agency, not even to muddy the water with a cheap RB. And there's even less wiggle room in the drafts. This is, after all, if we're talking about the Texans becoming a legitimate contender. Othwerise, we're bottom of the barrell...once more. It's the way it's playing out in the AFC South right now--It's a tough crowd.

Vinny
03-14-2008, 12:01 PM
Chris Browns running style reminds me more of OJ Simpson. When he was playing.
OJ was a much stronger runner inside, more explosive and was more physically imposing....not to mention his "slashing style" of running (couldn't resist). ;)

badboy
03-14-2008, 12:02 PM
This signing is cheap for a possible high reward like other players at other positions. Good competition. 10-12 carries by Brown @ 4yds avg will be acceptable. I see Brown as a third down back with enough speed to break one sort of a cheaper and younger Green. TC is where it comes together. I see Green likely a June 1st cut to save $3.8 million cap unless Brown collapses & Walker or Taylor are disappointing. I still see a ZBS type back on 2nd day.

With Stewart a ? with his toe requiring surgery, Kevin Smith and Forte are looking better.

GP
03-14-2008, 12:05 PM
Brown's contract says backup to me. And that being said, I have no understanding as to why a backup signing has you so pissed. If you want to be pissed after they draft a RB then fine, but hold off until then.

And aswer peoples questions for once. Alot of people on here ask you legitimate questions that you just blow off by continuing to repeat the rant that you started off with, and the adding nothing else to the discussion. I think for the most part we would all tolerate your specific brand of pessimism, if you didnt talk down to people so much, and just assume that you opinion is the only right one.

By the way saying that you want to fist fight people that think this is a good signing (which I do, for what it is) is rediculuos. Get over yourself. You act like you are 13 instead of 31 sometimes.

Well, if you missed the sarcasm with the smiley I provided...then blame yourself for that one. In the old days, in the bginning of the original houstontexans.com board, I actually had a guy replying to me and ASKING me to meet him at a truck stop to fight him. Seriously.

Look, I am going to lay this down. I don't want the thread getting locked up because everyone's battling me, or I'm battling them. I am going to try and use restraint.

It's just that there's a lot of parroting going on here. A lot of people rubber-stamping the RB situation, believing that it's workable. I disagree.

Texans Pride
03-14-2008, 12:09 PM
LOL. I hate this team. We are so retarded when it comes to running backs.

We don't think too much of you either. We should cut the tie and count our losses before we get to deep.

Goodbye and good luck.

HoustonFrog
03-14-2008, 12:09 PM
Seriously?

You think it plays out in a way where those two guys are spelling each other? Goodness, look at Chris Brown's attendance record. Please. He's just all of a sudden going to change? No way, man. I'll take the other side of your theory and say that Darius Walker and Chris Taylor will be the ones switching in and out.
Two years in a row we have taken a gamble on a talented runner who won't be healthy enough to make a lasting contribution. And two years in a row, people are trying to rationalize and justify it.

At least with my support of Carr, there was some reasoning behind it: Could Kubiak reform David Carr in a new system...could he do what he did with other QBs?" In addition, I am not in love with Sage as you have tried to paint it: I want an open competition and a chance for the QB to win the job and to not be crowned AS HAPPENED WITH DAVID CARR. For all of the times you try to say that I lie and distort facts, you sure spend a lot of time doing the same thing to me.

Two years in a row we have posters who parrot each other and pat each other on the back in regards to us signing a worthless running back. This must be Chris Brown's last stop in the NFL for as cheap as he signed.

And, I guess we'll all be scrambling on the football websites (and this one, too) on Saturday nights and Sunday mornings...trying to find out whether Ahman or Brown is the one playing on Sunday. Is that how you want to spend your time? Trying to find out who's healthy enough to play each Sunday?

(A) Taylor had a knee issue. Is it OK? Will it aggrevate and bench him?

(B) Ahman lasts exactly three plays in each game before getting banged up.

(C) Chris Brown is a total enigma, splitting time with Henry and White.

(D) That leaves Darius Walker who was cut, re-signed, and didn't look too bad in the limited time he had with us at the end of the season. From the posts I saw, I didn't see too many people with high hopes for him. I was not anticipating anything special from him.

Our running back situation is far from being stable. Not even with a RBBC situation. Sorry to be the pessimist (again). If you guys would level out your pie-in-the-sky outlooks on the perpetually awful condition of our running back crew, then I'd shut up. But there's just not a level of honesty going on here, with yourselves and with the others on the board, in terms of how bad it is. It's not good. Period. Gibbs and LUCK will save us.

Seriously, I'm not sure where you get your info or where you theories come from but do you really think that Kubes and Smith would go after another RB if they thought Walker and Taylor would split?I mean give me a break. My scenario actually makes alot of sense. You have Green who was never injured until a year before we got him and last year. He still has talent and is getting a little older. He knows the system. You have Chris Brown, the most talented of the bunch , who played at Colorado and was taught Gibbs system at Colorado. If you have two guys who get banged up, yet are talented..you split them and keep them fresh. Its pretty simple. You are probably drafting a back and still have Taylor. In your world we would just keep rotating backups and 3rd stringers.

BTW. you don't thionk Gibbs signed off on this...he coached the kid up in his system!!

Fox
03-14-2008, 12:10 PM
GP, you love to play the me vs. the world card, even when it's not there. Have you read through this entire thread? There are very, very few "pie-in-the-sky", Chris Brown is the man and is going to save our running game posts. There are quite a few oh ok, he was cheap and could help us if he stays healthy, ok but not great signing posts. If you would stop trying to polarize everyone's opinions into black and white you might realize that we all agree more than you seem to acknowledge.

HoustonFrog
03-14-2008, 12:12 PM
We don't think too much of you either. We should cut the tie and count our losses before we get to deep.

Goodbye and good luck.

Thanks for saying it. I don't like that he calls things "retarded" either.

bigbrewster2000
03-14-2008, 12:12 PM
Well, if you missed the sarcasm with the smiley I provided...then blame yourself for that one. In the old days, in the bginning of the original houstontexans.com board, I actually had a guy replying to me and ASKING me to meet him at a truck stop to fight him. Seriously.

Look, I am going to lay this down. I don't want the thread getting locked up because everyone's battling me, or I'm battling them. I am going to try and use restraint.

It's just that there's a lot of parroting going on here. A lot of people rubber-stamping the RB situation, believing that it's workable. I disagree.

I am really not trying to battle you just trying to get you to answer questions. I am not rubber stamping anything either, I just dont see any reason to get ticked about a backup RB being signed to the team.

And you did further my other points by choosing to ignore the questions I asked.:cool:

GP
03-14-2008, 12:18 PM
Seriously, I'm not sure where you get your info or where you theories come from but do you really think that Kubes and Smith would go after another RB if they thought Walker and Taylor would split?I mean give me a break. My scenario actually makes alot of sense. You have Green who was never injured until a year before we got him and last year. He still has talent and is getting a little older. He knows the system. You have Chris Brown, the most talented of the bunch , who played at Colorado and was taught Gibbs system at Colorado. If you have two guys who get banged up, yet are talented..you split them and keep them fresh. Its pretty simple. You are probably drafting a back and still have Taylor. In your world we would just keep rotating backups and 3rd stringers.

BTW. you don't thionk Gibbs signed off on this...he coached the kid up in his system!!

Frog:

In a true spirit (from me) to discuss the issues and separate the personalities from it, here's my response:

(A) I just dislike putting faith in banged up players. I see a potential pattern in your analysis of our players: You and I disagree on Matt Schaub--I personally think he's injury-prone and not going to be able to last due to his playing style/shortcomings that will always endanger him. You think I'm a turd for suggesting it (fair to say?).

(B) I would rather have Walker and Taylor (hopefully he's healed) than two guys who are seemingly always M.I.A., and you are thinking that at least one of them will be healthy at all times.

Being an analytical guy, I conclude that you're always putting faith and "uspide" in high priority.

I guess I've had my soul crushed too many times, with this team, to really feel safe in the idea of placing stock in what I'm told about RB acquisitions.

I also think we draft a RB...but it'll be so late in the draft that it's going to take a miracle un-earthing of Terrell Davis proportions to make any difference.

GP
03-14-2008, 12:21 PM
I am really not trying to battle you just trying to get you to answer questions. I am not rubber stamping anything either, I just dont see any reason to get ticked about a backup RB being signed to the team.

And you did further my other points by choosing to ignore the questions I asked.:cool:

If we were serious, we'd have signed Warrick Dunn who is arguably more durable than Ahman and Brown put together. Plus, as Frog says about Brown having been in Colorado's system under Gibbs, Dunn was also in the Gibbs system and the stories say that Gibbs took the Falcons from being a bad running team to being a lot better.

Yeah, I'm ticked off that we signed a cripple. Regardless of contract or roster depth. Like I said: Gibbs and LUCK will be needed.

El Tejano
03-14-2008, 12:23 PM
OJ was a much stronger runner inside, more explosive and was more physically imposing....not to mention his "slashing style" of running (couldn't resist). ;)

I guess what I mean is Stride. Their strides are similar. OJ did run up more too though but mostly after the LOS>

GP
03-14-2008, 12:24 PM
GP, you love to play the me vs. the world card, even when it's not there. Have you read through this entire thread? There are very, very few "pie-in-the-sky", Chris Brown is the man and is going to save our running game posts. There are quite a few oh ok, he was cheap and could help us if he stays healthy, ok but not great signing posts. If you would stop trying to polarize everyone's opinions into black and white you might realize that we all agree more than you seem to acknowledge.

There needs to be more "What?! Again?" posts.

It's like we used all of our anger and outtrage on David Carr, and now that he's gone...well, anything we do has got be better or smarter. I just don't see very much open criticism of a move that adds virtually no long-term payoff for us.

And for as much as we hate being laughed at, by the media and by co-workers etc., I really thought we'd all agree to not be so gullible about these sorts of signings anymore. His position on the RB depth chart is of no consequence to me. It's another bad move.

Errant Hothy
03-14-2008, 12:26 PM
Frog:

In a true spirit (from me) to discuss the issues and separate the personalities from it, here's my response:

(A) I just dislike putting faith in banged up players. I see a potential pattern in your analysis of our players: You and I disagree on Matt Schaub--I personally think he's injury-prone and not going to be able to last due to his playing style/shortcomings that will always endanger him. You think I'm a turd for suggesting it (fair to say?).

(B) I would rather have Walker and Taylor (hopefully he's healed) than two guys who are seemingly always M.I.A., and you are thinking that at least one of them will be healthy at all times.

Being an analytical guy, I conclude that you're always putting faith and "uspide" in high priority.

I guess I've had my soul crushed too many times, with this team, to really feel safe in the idea of placing stock in what I'm told about RB acquisitions.

I also think we draft a RB...but it'll be so late in the draft that it's going to take a miracle un-earthing of Terrell Davis proportions to make any difference.

So which is it? You don't like banged up players or like Taylor who has had an injury worse then either Green or Brown?

In an earlier post you basically screamed that Kubiak would never draft a RB in the 1st round. My question (and I know the odds of you answering it are low) is how do you reconcile that comment with the fact that the Texans/Kubiak were trying to trade back up to draft DeAngelo Willimas.

In addition to that when have we ever been in a position where a RB was the BPA on the baord when we drafted inthe 1st (under Kubiak and Smith)? Willaims over Bush was the right decsion. I think a slight arguement could be made that Lynch might have been ok at 10 last year, but if FA has taught us anything (besides that OG are getting paid lately) it is that a good/great DT is much harder to find then a good/great RB.

Fox
03-14-2008, 12:29 PM
There needs to be more "What?! Again?" posts.

It's like we used all of our anger and outtrage on David Carr, and now that he's gone...well, anything we do has got be better or smarter. I just don't see very much open criticism of a move that adds virtually no long-term payoff for us.

That's fine, if you want to be outraged that there aren't enough outraged people on the boards that's cool, whatever. But if 6 months from now Chris Brown goes down with a season ending nipple injury I don't want to see you on here spouting your "I told you so! You were all shooting sunshine out of your ass and saying he was going to be a HoF'er but I knew it all along!" when in truth most everyone's taking a wait and see approach.

HOU-TEX
03-14-2008, 12:30 PM
If we were serious, we'd have signed Warrick Dunn who is arguably more durable than Ahman and Brown put together. Plus, as Frog says about Brown having been in Colorado's system under Gibbs, Dunn was also in the Gibbs system and the stories say that Gibbs took the Falcons from being a bad running team to being a lot better.

Yeah, I'm ticked off that we signed a cripple. Regardless of contract or roster depth. Like I said: Gibbs and LUCK will be needed.

33 year oldWarrick Dunn contract:
3/10/2008: Signed a two-year, $6 million contract. The deal includes $2 million in guarantees. 2008-2009: $3 million, 2010: Free Agent

27 year old Chris Brown contract:
Brown, who turns 27 next month, signed a two-year contract worth $3.6 million on Thursday. He received an $800,000 signing bonus.

Hmm....for a situational type RB I'll take....let's see here....boy this is a tough one.......:ok:

Dude, get a grip!

Maddict5
03-14-2008, 12:33 PM
There needs to be more "What?! Again?" posts.

It's like we used all of our anger and outtrage on David Carr, and now that he's gone...well, anything we do has got be better or smarter. I just don't see very much open criticism of a move that adds virtually no long-term payoff for us.

And for as much as we hate being laughed at, by the media and by co-workers etc., I really thought we'd all agree to not be so gullible about these sorts of signings anymore. His position on the RB depth chart is of no consequence to me. It's another bad move.


sorry but its not carr :wild: ..for the most part, the new staff have shown they're more than competent at evaluating personnel and deserve the benefit of the doubt

GP
03-14-2008, 12:35 PM
I do realize Dunn signed for more, which is why I say that the contract details of no significance to me. Giving Brown $800,000 is giving Brown $800,000 to be called a Texans RB before he's cut and gone...providing no long-term payoff for this team, which is my main beef. If we're going to make a move in free agency, at least make one with logical sense: Dunn would be better, hypothetically, than Chris Brown.

Dunn is arguably better than Chris Brown. Dunn costs more. I would have liked to have seen us stone up and pay for a better RB than what we have now.

Arky
03-14-2008, 12:37 PM
Actually, I think GP makes some valid points. Perhaps a little harsh sometimes but logical and valid, IMO.

One thing is I see people keep saying is that Chris Brown has "breakaway speed", "could bust a long one", "take it to the house type back", etc, etc. In reality, he's only gone 40+ yards twice in his career (5 years, 54 games). Twice. Hell, Darius Walker who has only been in 4 NFL games has one run of 40+ yards.... Yet, he might be the odd man out... :-/

GP
03-14-2008, 12:38 PM
So which is it? You don't like banged up players or like Taylor who has had an injury worse then either Green or Brown?

In an earlier post you basically screamed that Kubiak would never draft a RB in the 1st round. My question (and I know the odds of you answering it are low) is how do you reconcile that comment with the fact that the Texans/Kubiak were trying to trade back up to draft DeAngelo Willimas.

In addition to that when have we ever been in a position where a RB was the BPA on the baord when we drafted inthe 1st (under Kubiak and Smith)? Willaims over Bush was the right decsion. I think a slight arguement could be made that Lynch might have been ok at 10 last year, but if FA has taught us anything (besides that OG are getting paid lately) it is that a good/great DT is much harder to find then a good/great RB.

Well, at least give a young kid (Taylor) a chance to show he's healed. Schaub is being given that chance, so can Taylor.

Chris Brown has been given lots of seasons. Ahman has a condition that I think we all feel is a pretty chronic or not-so-hopeful situation.

I'd take Darius Walker at this stage, and hopefully a healed Taylor, over two guys (Ahman and Brown) who, IMO, are not going to give us a payoff.

Wolf
03-14-2008, 12:40 PM
sometmes I feel like
http://www.panthershuddle.com/newforum/images/smilies/bricks.gif

GP
03-14-2008, 12:42 PM
I give up.

:fans:

hookinreds
03-14-2008, 12:42 PM
All I have to say is that I will be watching on draft day to see what positions are drafted. Gruden is stockpiling QBs and we make fun of him for it...but we're stockpiling RBs and it's OK to a lot of fans. If that's not being a blinded homer for our team, then nothing is.


You play multiple RBs in a game based on the situation, you don't rotate QBs in an out of a game. Being able to have multiple RBs in a game keeps their legs fresh, and their durability higher than beating the hell out of one RB. Just like a good line, if used right, it can wear down the defense come the fourth quarter.

See also: Rockets PF Scola/Landry/Hayes

Errant Hothy
03-14-2008, 12:45 PM
Actually, I think GP makes some valid points. Perhaps a little harsh sometimes but logical and valid, IMO.

One thing is I see people keep saying is that Chris Brown has "breakaway speed", "could bust a long one", "take it to the house type back", etc, etc. In reality, he's only gone 40+ yards twice in his career (5 years, 54 games). Twice. Hell, Darius Walker who has only been in 4 NFL games has one run of 40+ yards.... Yet, he might be the odd man out... :-/

Really, cause I don't remember anybody in this thread saying that. Go find post to back up your claims.

hookinreds
03-14-2008, 12:47 PM
Seriously?

You think it plays out in a way where those two guys are spelling each other? Goodness, look at Chris Brown's attendance record. Please. He's just all of a sudden going to change? No way, man. I'll take the other side of your theory and say that Darius Walker and Chris Taylor will be the ones switching in and out.

Two years in a row we have taken a gamble on a talented runner who won't be healthy enough to make a lasting contribution. And two years in a row, people are trying to rationalize and justify it.

At least with my support of Carr, there was some reasoning behind it: Could Kubiak reform David Carr in a new system...could he do what he did with other QBs?" In addition, I am not in love with Sage as you have tried to paint it: I want an open competition and a chance for the QB to win the job and to not be crowned AS HAPPENED WITH DAVID CARR. For all of the times you try to say that I lie and distort facts, you sure spend a lot of time doing the same thing to me.

Two years in a row we have posters who parrot each other and pat each other on the back in regards to us signing a worthless running back. This must be Chris Brown's last stop in the NFL for as cheap as he signed.

And, I guess we'll all be scrambling on the football websites (and this one, too) on Saturday nights and Sunday mornings...trying to find out whether Ahman or Brown is the one playing on Sunday. Is that how you want to spend your time? Trying to find out who's healthy enough to play each Sunday?

(A) Taylor had a knee issue. Is it OK? Will it aggrevate and bench him?

(B) Ahman lasts exactly three plays in each game before getting banged up.

(C) Chris Brown is a total enigma, splitting time with Henry and White.

(D) That leaves Darius Walker who was cut, re-signed, and didn't look too bad in the limited time he had with us at the end of the season. From the posts I saw, I didn't see too many people with high hopes for him. I was not anticipating anything special from him.

Our running back situation is far from being stable. Not even with a RBBC situation. Sorry to be the pessimist (again). If you guys would level out your pie-in-the-sky outlooks on the perpetually awful condition of our running back crew, then I'd shut up. But there's just not a level of honesty going on here, with yourselves and with the others on the board, in terms of how bad it is. It's not good. Period. Gibbs and LUCK will save us.


Can I get a slice of your pie-in-the-sky? Enough, until you can find us a HOF RB that will be a guaranteed starter for us 16+ games every season for the rest of his career, drop it.

Errant Hothy
03-14-2008, 12:47 PM
Well, at least give a young kid (Taylor) a chance to show he's healed. Schaub is being given that chance, so can Taylor.

Chris Brown has been given lots of seasons. Ahman has a condition that I think we all feel is a pretty chronic or not-so-hopeful situation.

I'd take Darius Walker at this stage, and hopefully a healed Taylor, over two guys (Ahman and Brown) who, IMO, are not going to give us a payoff.

Why not give Brown that same chance? Atleast none of his injuries have been as bad as Taylor's. You must think that the Jags are stupid for giving Taylor all those chances to have a healthy season. How did that work out for Jacksonville this season?

I agree with you about Ahman btw.

Arky
03-14-2008, 12:53 PM
Really, cause I don't remember anybody in this thread saying that. Go find post to back up your claims.

So, you want me to go back and reread 15 pages just so I can prove it? Eheh, sorry, <Bush, Sr.> ain't gonna do it </Bush, Sr.>.

But here's a recent posted by badboy (#261):

I see Brown as a third down back with enough speed to break one sort of a cheaper and younger Green.

HoustonFrog
03-14-2008, 12:56 PM
GP, instead of following what I find to be crazy logic..if logic even applies I'll make it as simple as possible.

1) You used to be crazy for Carr. You don't like Schaub as a future QB and like Sage. You have no faith in Kubiak. Just don't like Chris Brown now even though you say Taylor should get a shot after being injured. Injured before a season. (BTW, does this now make him injury prone as you label Schaub)

2) If you take all of the things above it comes down to one thing....you have no faith in Kubiak, Smith or their decisions despite showing they can draft and fill holes in the last 2 years. At some point your hypocrisy in posts(as pointed out above) and your circular reasoning has to come to a head and you have to get on board and see what happens or just hope Kubiak fails to prove your point. None of us is going to agree with every decision but Henry was cheap, he has talent and he upgrades our RBs to a level where we don't have all mediocre backs. Your guy Taylor will get his shot and so will all of these guys but if they can stay semi-healthy and rotate it works. The will still draft a guy too and he doesn't have to be a Hall of Famer.

All in all, until you have faith in the system and what thwey are doing, then your arguments go nowhere. So far there isn't any reason why we shouldn't at least to start to buy in a little. cheap upgrades are just that..cheap upgrades and in the NFL they can be gone if it doesn't work with minimal damage.

badboy
03-14-2008, 01:01 PM
So, you want me to go back and reread 15 pages just so I can prove it? Eheh, sorry, <Bush, Sr.> ain't gonna do it </Bush, Sr.>.

But here's a recent posted by badboy (#261):Since I posted let me clarify, I do not see Chris Brown or Green as breaking one for 40 yds. Never said that. I think a good back is one that is 4.5 or better avg/carry and a 20 yarder is a great rush. Either may be able to do that occasionally (20 yds).

Errant Hothy
03-14-2008, 01:06 PM
So, you want me to go back and reread 15 pages just so I can prove it? Eheh, sorry, <Bush, Sr.> ain't gonna do it </Bush, Sr.>.

But here's a recent posted by badboy (#261):

That's one, you're post make it sound like thereis a chorus of people saying that he is a burner.

Skimming back through the thread, I think most people are commenting on more on his running style, his past issues with holding onto the ball, and his ability as a receiver. And of course the injury issues.

Mr. White
03-14-2008, 01:10 PM
Chris Brown and Warrick Dunn were both backups on my fantasy team last year.

Neither one was great, but at the end of the season Brown was still on my roster. Dunn wasn't.

I like the signing. Good depth if nothing else. Definitely better than we had last year.

Brando
03-14-2008, 01:13 PM
I think it is going to be a good season for Chris Brown. Didn't he run the same ZBS in college? I think with the change of scenery,sharing the load with a RBBC thing, and in the right system, he will flourish.

Arky
03-14-2008, 01:14 PM
That's one, you're post make it sound like thereis a chorus of people saying that he is a burner.....



Well, there was more but I ain't gonna search 'em out. And then the thread kinda morphed into some Dickerson/Simpson comparisons.... :shades:

Kaiser Toro
03-14-2008, 01:16 PM
A healthy Chris Brown has always been very productive. For whatever reason he some how finds himself off the field. The price tag blew me away much like the Schaub deal, but in the opposite direction. In my opinion this is a great signing - low risk, potential high reward. I would take five Chris Brown's at that price, even given his allergy problem with being on the field.

Brando
03-14-2008, 01:18 PM
Seriously?

You think it plays out in a way where those two guys are spelling each other? Goodness, look at Chris Brown's attendance record. Please. He's just all of a sudden going to change? No way, man. I'll take the other side of your theory and say that Darius Walker and Chris Taylor will be the ones switching in and out.

Two years in a row we have taken a gamble on a talented runner who won't be healthy enough to make a lasting contribution. And two years in a row, people are trying to rationalize and justify it.

At least with my support of Carr, there was some reasoning behind it: Could Kubiak reform David Carr in a new system...could he do what he did with other QBs?" In addition, I am not in love with Sage as you have tried to paint it: I want an open competition and a chance for the QB to win the job and to not be crowned AS HAPPENED WITH DAVID CARR. For all of the times you try to say that I lie and distort facts, you sure spend a lot of time doing the same thing to me.

Two years in a row we have posters who parrot each other and pat each other on the back in regards to us signing a worthless running back. This must be Chris Brown's last stop in the NFL for as cheap as he signed.

And, I guess we'll all be scrambling on the football websites (and this one, too) on Saturday nights and Sunday mornings...trying to find out whether Ahman or Brown is the one playing on Sunday. Is that how you want to spend your time? Trying to find out who's healthy enough to play each Sunday?

(A) Taylor had a knee issue. Is it OK? Will it aggrevate and bench him?

(B) Ahman lasts exactly three plays in each game before getting banged up.

(C) Chris Brown is a total enigma, splitting time with Henry and White.

(D) That leaves Darius Walker who was cut, re-signed, and didn't look too bad in the limited time he had with us at the end of the season. From the posts I saw, I didn't see too many people with high hopes for him. I was not anticipating anything special from him.

Our running back situation is far from being stable. Not even with a RBBC situation. Sorry to be the pessimist (again). If you guys would level out your pie-in-the-sky outlooks on the perpetually awful condition of our running back crew, then I'd shut up. But there's just not a level of honesty going on here, with yourselves and with the others on the board, in terms of how bad it is. It's not good. Period. Gibbs and LUCK will save us.


Just like our WR situation last year and it turned into a strength.

santo
03-14-2008, 01:20 PM
A healthy Chris Brown has always been very productive. For whatever reason he some how finds himself off the field. The price tag blew me away much like the Schaub deal, but in the opposite direction. In my opinion this is a great signing - low risk, potential high reward. I would take five Chris Brown's at that price, even given his allery problem with being on the field.


Exactly. The deal could come out to be like when we signed Demps.

All Brown has to do is show some production and the Texans will offer him another contract.

I'm excited about this signing.

Errant Hothy
03-14-2008, 01:22 PM
Shanahan's take on Brown:
http://blogs.chron.com/gamedaytexans/2008/03/shanahan_excited_about_additio.html

Shanahan has followed Brown since that game and is confident he's going to fit in well with the running game that Alex Gibbs is installing.

"He understands how to get yards," Shanahan said. "He's always been a 4.5 yards per carry guy. No matter what, he's always going forward. He knows how to press the hole. He's a violent cutter. He's big and he runs tall but he can get real slippery too. And every time I've seen him get the opportunity, he's been able to move the chains and do it consistently."

Injuries have plagued Brown in the past. He will be added to the mix at a position where the other top two backs — Green and Taylor — are coming off the Injured Reserve. Shanahan hopes that with Green and Brown capable of being starters, they can keep each other fresh — and healthy.

"What excites me about Chris is I see him as a starting type running back," Shanahan said. "He's that type of player. To have him be able to spell Ahman, and Ahman spell Chris, to keep two guys fresh like that, I think it will be needed.

"There are very few teams in the NFL who can give the ball to one back all year. I'll be surprised if there's any. Look at San Diego, it caught up to them in the championship game. You're always going to need another guy even if he's you No. 2, he's going to be your starter for a few games that year, that's for sure. When you're No. 2, and you know you're capable of being a starter, it makes you a lot more comfortable."

Thorn
03-14-2008, 01:30 PM
We did get him on the cheap, that's for sure. As long as he's thought of as backup and debth for the RB position, and we are still going after our franchise back in the draft and NOT expecting our franchise back to be ANYONE currently with a contract, I guess I'm OK with it. Lots of ifs there, but that's how I feel about it.

I don't see where any one of the backs we have under contract right now should be considered our future. Not a single one of them. Not even Dayne, whom I'm going to miss quite frankly.

DBCooper
03-14-2008, 01:35 PM
A healthy Chris Brown has always been very productive. For whatever reason he some how finds himself off the field. The price tag blew me away much like the Schaub deal, but in the opposite direction. In my opinion this is a great signing - low risk, potential high reward. I would take five Chris Brown's at that price, even given his allergy problem with being on the field.


Exactly.

If he performs, we got a hell of a deal.

If he gets hurt, we haven't lost that much.

Polo
03-14-2008, 01:36 PM
I don't understand the negativity about the signing. It's not like we threw tons of money at the guy, and it's not like he doesn't have skills.

I think sometimes great rewards call for taking chances sometimes.

Nice to see the Texans F.O understands this.

hookinreds
03-14-2008, 01:40 PM
Shanahan's take on Brown:
http://blogs.chron.com/gamedaytexans/2008/03/shanahan_excited_about_additio.html

Better not let GP see this.

b0ng
03-14-2008, 01:58 PM
Good god, isn't there a way to temporarily ban him so he can calm down for a sec? Goddamn.

bigbrewster2000
03-14-2008, 02:16 PM
Good god, isn't there a way to temporarily ban him so he can calm down for a sec? Goddamn.

Can you please not use that kind of language. It is not necesary.

TITAN1
03-14-2008, 02:22 PM
I have always liked Chris Brown. When healthy, he is usually productive and can break off the long one at any time. Hopefully, he can stay healthy in Houston.

Errant Hothy
03-14-2008, 02:24 PM
Can you please not use that kind of language. It is not necesary.

Why not just send that as a PM message?

It has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

threetoedpete
03-14-2008, 02:31 PM
We did get him on the cheap, that's for sure. As long as he's thought of as backup and debth for the RB position, and we are still going after our franchise back in the draft and NOT expecting our franchise back to be ANYONE currently with a contract, I guess I'm OK with it. Lots of ifs there, but that's how I feel about it.

I don't see where any one of the backs we have under contract right now should be considered our future. Not a single one of them. Not even Dayne, whom I'm going to miss quite frankly.

It's @ redund@nt pick. Morency with more injuries due to his very upright running style. So now we seem to be collecting them ? there is no purpose to this st@ffs collection of t@llent...they continue to me@nder into helter skelter. The hump ye@r....will there be ye@r six ?

The "boys" first boo-boo.

Ronnie just got the c@ll from the turk.

Looks more @nd more like there will not be @ Rb with the first three picks...something I predicted three months @go btw... s@y hello to Corey Boyd or someone simul@r. . if @t @ll.

HOU-TEX
03-14-2008, 02:35 PM
It's @ redund@nt pick. Morency with more injuries due to his very upright running style. So now we seem to be collecting them ? there is no purpose to this st@ffs collection of t@llent...they continue to me@nder into helter skelter. The hump ye@r....will there be ye@r six ?

The "boys" first boo-boo.

Ronnie just got the c@ll from the turk.

Looks more @nd more like there will not be @ Rb with the first three picks...something I predicted three months @go btw... s@y hello to Corey Boyd or someone simul@r. . if @t @ll.

Is there something wrong with your 'A' button? :thinking:

Texaninlild
03-14-2008, 02:40 PM
It's @ redund@nt pick. Morency with more injuries due to his very upright running style. So now we seem to be collecting them ? there is no purpose to this st@ffs collection of t@llent...they continue to me@nder into helter skelter. The hump ye@r....will there be ye@r six ?

The "boys" first boo-boo.

Ronnie just got the c@ll from the turk.

Looks more @nd more like there will not be @ Rb with the first three picks...something I predicted three months @go btw... s@y hello to Corey Boyd or someone simul@r. . if @t @ll.

Eric Dickerson and Roger Craig both had upright running styles. They were pretty ok.

This doesn't bother me, but I was hoping to get a back by round 4, but that may not happen.

I think a more important signing would be the center from Denver. A starter who knows the offense, that would be nice.

Oh and the A key is on the left of the keyboard and does not require 'shift' to be used in conjunction with it. Therefore the A key might be a better choice in the future. It could save you from carpel tunnel syndrome.

:gun:

Texaninlild
03-14-2008, 02:42 PM
Good god, isn't there a way to temporarily ban him so he can calm down for a sec? Goddamn.

b0ng is going to hell! :devilpig:

HOU-TEX
03-14-2008, 02:45 PM
IIRC, Eddie George ran kind of upright, didn't he? He was a big dude though. I met him a looong time ago and the dude's built like a brick shithouse. :elle:

Texaninlild
03-14-2008, 02:54 PM
IIRC, Eddie George ran kind of upright, didn't he? He was a big dude though. I met him a looong time ago and the dude's built like a brick shithouse. :elle:

Eddie George eventually broke down, but he had some very good years. Brown doesn't have nearly as many miles on his tires.

I see Brown more as a 2 x 4 with a quarter moon on the door shithouse.

:cowboy1:

kiwitexansfan
03-14-2008, 04:29 PM
I am for the signing. Mark my words if (if being the big word with Chris Brown) he is healthy through camp and for as long as he stays healthy, he will be the starter for our team.

If he is not we paid chicken feed for him so who cares.

austintexanite
03-14-2008, 04:40 PM
I'm not completely sold on Brown, but I think he can add good depth for us and he can hit the hole a lot quicker than Ron can. Having said that, I doubt than Ron will comeback and thank him for helping us out for the past two years. Like him or hate him, he was probably the most consistent back we had during his tenure. I wonder if we could have waited a little bit more and given Kevin Jones a shot, but I guess Detroit released him too late.

I remember Brown from Colorado and he still runs the same way in the NFL, which leaves him susceptible to big hits and injuries. He always ran hard, but with him and Ahman as our two main backs I'm thinking that Darius and Chris Taylor will have make some massive strides and pick up the slack when/if one of these guys goes down again.

Finally, I severely doubt we are going to draft a RB with our first pick, so now it's down to either CB, OT, OLB.

Goldensilence
03-14-2008, 05:13 PM
Eddie George eventually broke down, but he had some very good years. Brown doesn't have nearly as many miles on his tires.

I see Brown more as a 2 x 4 with a quarter moon on the door shithouse.

:cowboy1:

Eddie George was also consistantly one of the backs with top # of rush Attempts per year. It caught up with him.

TEXANRED
03-14-2008, 05:22 PM
You gotta' be kidding me.

The free agent move we make is for a guy who can't wrestle the starting job from LenDale White?

I want to publicly state that I am ready to fist-fight :wild: anybody who thinks this is a good move. He's injury-prone and M.I.A. as much as Green was last year.

Forget the details of the contract. I wouldn't care if we'd spent $1 on him. To me, that's $1 that could have bought a burger for Dayne.

LOL. I hate this team. We are so retarded when it comes to running backs.
I think its a good move, what?:bat:

GP, I think you should step back for a few days, stretch the legs a bit. I am sure if you talk to Herv he can recommend a good place to chill for a while. You are starting to sound an awful lot like our resident troll Nighthawk, or worse, the infamous BoBo.

You are blasting everything the Texans do. If Rick Smith stopped to pick up a quarter you would probably start an entire thread about how Rick Smith is waisting time and thats why this team never signs any good players.

Chill, its only the offseason.

TEXANRED
03-14-2008, 05:24 PM
Why not just send that as a PM message?

It has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

And this does?

Bulluck53
03-14-2008, 09:15 PM
In Houston's situation I see this as a good signing. You guys lack a true #1 back but the combination you have should suffice. Brown's biggest obstacle is obviously his health. Even as a part-time guy for us last year he got hurt and missed some practices. He does have speed and is a lot more elusive then he seems. He hits the hole quckly and has pretty good vision. He is best used as a receiver out of the backfield as he has a knack for making the first man miss. He's good on screens and the like. It will be interesting to see him in the zone-blocking scheme.

FYI, he did get a chance to start... it was the year after we let Eddie walk, which was made easier by the promise Brown showed the year before and in the playoffs, but he got hurt and never really amounted to anything.

TexansSeminole
03-15-2008, 01:23 AM
Just saw this after getting back from vacation. I think it is a good pickup. We could use a running back and he can use a new situation. He was a mean runner in college. He was a good back in the first couple of years of his pro career but injuries caught him. Wasn't he the guy Simmons laid out? Dislocated his shoulder I think.

Rick Smith is smart to take a chance on Brown, maybe he has a good year with the opportunities he will get with the Texans.

Specnatz
03-15-2008, 04:07 AM
It's not often you get to mix in football and Hanson in the same post. Bravo, sir.

Forgive my writing but working 15 hour days is kicking my ass. Work at normal job real slow so I have been working SXSW and doing Personal Assistance work with a production company and one of the bands we had was Hanson. the funny thing is that there were as many 20 year girls as there were 40 + year old ladies. It was funny seeing that.

rickyb
03-15-2008, 09:53 AM
Eddie George eventually broke down, but he had some very good years. Brown doesn't have nearly as many miles on his tires.

I see Brown more as a 2 x 4 with a quarter moon on the door shithouse.

:cowboy1:

I love that the board will allow a word like ******house (those are my asterisks; not a prude, i just recognize that some kids read this), but type in the word ***** (that's I D -- I -- O-- T) and the asterisk police blot it out.

:photos: :)

Scooter
03-15-2008, 09:53 AM
i've either ignored or skimmed most of the posts so forgive me if i missed something relevent, but dang yall are worked up over a backup working a near minimum salary. this has been a less than eventful offseason obviously but put that effort into our biggest free agent, coach gibbs, and what he can do with the current roster and what it's going to do to impact our scheme and draft and future season.

chris brown is a solid player who's injury prone. when healthy he's been successful and coming from a division rival who we play twice a season is worth signing. brown fits what kubiak/gibbs/shanahan are building and at very least can compete in camp for a starter or backup role. he has zero bearing on the draft or other potential free agent signings. what brown is, is exactly how rick smith has been so successful thus far. low risk, high reward ... talents fit the the system ... costs next to nothing relatively ... and if nothing else boosts the talent level of the overall 53. since it's the current flavor it's comparative to the current rockets' success - TEAM talent instead of individual talent. with brown our group talent is higher.

kubiak and smith have done a great job of building this team in two ways ... schaub is one direction and brown is the other. in schaub the office researched their hearts out and threw the bank at one player. brown is at the other end of the spectrum and why we've gone from a 2-14 team to an 8-8 team under a rookie coach and office ... sign 300 players for pennies who fit the system and let the best man win. we've missed twice so far on big spending (weaver/green) simply because we were so far behind that reaches needed to be made, but these nickel potential signings are paying huge (walter, demps, kalu, leach, killings, andre davis, cochran, and many more).

brown's a nickel signing that cant hurt us, but is capable of helping us in a big way.

hell if nothing else ... if brown, green, and taylor can each play 5 or more games before their inevitable injury, we're in good shape. :doot:

markn
03-15-2008, 10:54 AM
i've either ignored or skimmed most of the posts so forgive me if i missed something relevent, but dang yall are worked up over a backup working a near minimum salary. this has been a less than eventful offseason obviously but put that effort into our biggest free agent, coach gibbs, and what he can do with the current roster and what it's going to do to impact our scheme and draft and future season.

chris brown is a solid player who's injury prone. when healthy he's been successful and coming from a division rival who we play twice a season is worth signing. brown fits what kubiak/gibbs/shanahan are building and at very least can compete in camp for a starter or backup role. he has zero bearing on the draft or other potential free agent signings. what brown is, is exactly how rick smith has been so successful thus far. low risk, high reward ... talents fit the the system ... costs next to nothing relatively ... and if nothing else boosts the talent level of the overall 53. since it's the current flavor it's comparative to the current rockets' success - TEAM talent instead of individual talent. with brown our group talent is higher.

kubiak and smith have done a great job of building this team in two ways ... schaub is one direction and brown is the other. in schaub the office researched their hearts out and threw the bank at one player. brown is at the other end of the spectrum and why we've gone from a 2-14 team to an 8-8 team under a rookie coach and office ... sign 300 players for pennies who fit the system and let the best man win. we've missed twice so far on big spending (weaver/green) simply because we were so far behind that reaches needed to be made, but these nickel potential signings are paying huge (walter, demps, kalu, leach, killings, andre davis, cochran, and many more).

brown's a nickel signing that cant hurt us, but is capable of helping us in a big way.

hell if nothing else ... if brown, green, and taylor can each play 5 or more games before their inevitable injury, we're in good shape. :doot:

So much common sense in one post.

bckey
03-15-2008, 11:05 AM
Good post scooter. I agree with you on all points. I'm excited about Chris Brown coming to Houston. I didn't like the Green signing last year because of his age but Brown is in his prime if he can stay healthy. One thing I'll add about Rick Smith and Kubiak signing all these players that fit the system and letting the best man win is that they can draft the best player available instead of reaching to fill a need.

beerlover
03-15-2008, 11:08 AM
nice post scoots.

some of us do have issues with the signing, "you can't please everyone" I guess.

1. Chris Brown was a Titan. drafted by & developed by Tennessee.

Fisher left him unprotected for a reason, whether he didn't fit the offense, couldn't stay healthy, whatever seems like another teams discards.

2. Championship pedigree.

What has he done or proven over the course of his career to indicate he will lead his team to a championship? I posted much earlier on in this thread the 2003 Fiesta Bowl & what has he done in Nashville?

3. Character issues.

Chris may be prone to making bone-headed deceisions (started off @ Fort Scott Kan. Junior College, then transferred to Northwestern & redshirted before Colorado, why?) might be physically gifted but is that any guarentee his talent is a blessing for the Texans? not to mention this signing is going to dislodge Darius Walker off the active roster, who has worked his tail off, back to the practice squad.

4. Injury concerns.

Concussion, back, ankle, toe, shoulder & hammy are all applicable injurys sustained over the past 5 years. Is it his running style, body type, what?

5. Texans won't use a high draft pick on an elite RB

Forgive me for wanting a franchise RB ala Adrian Peterson. RB by committee seems like the buzz word for Gibbs style. so now we have locked & loaded Ahman Green & Chris Brown, if Chris Taylor can bounce back thats a bonus.

Scooter
03-15-2008, 11:53 AM
nice post scoots.

some of us do have issues with the signing, "you can't please everyone" I guess.

1. Chris Brown was a Titan. drafted by & developed by Tennessee.

Fisher left him unprotected for a reason, whether he didn't fit the offense, couldn't stay healthy, whatever seems like another teams discards.

2. Championship pedigree.

What has he done or proven over the course of his career to indicate he will lead his team to a championship? I posted much earlier on in this thread the 2003 Fiesta Bowl & what has he done in Nashville?

3. Character issues.

Chris may be prone to making bone-headed deceisions (started off @ Fort Scott Kan. Junior College, then transferred to Northwestern & redshirted before Colorado, why?) might be physically gifted but is that any guarentee his talent is a blessing for the Texans? not to mention this signing is going to dislodge Darius Walker off the active roster, who has worked his tail off, back to the practice squad.

4. Injury concerns.

Concussion, back, ankle, toe, shoulder & hammy are all applicable injurys sustained over the past 5 years. Is it his running style, body type, what?

5. Texans won't use a high draft pick on an elite RB

Forgive me for wanting a franchise RB ala Adrian Peterson. RB by committee seems like the buzz word for Gibbs style. so now we have locked & loaded Ahman Green & Chris Brown, if Chris Taylor can bounce back thats a bonus.

good questions. i'll attempt to argue each but as you said, some folks arent going to like the signing regardless and i respect that as i'm not exactly fond of a few already signed/resigned.

1. signing divisional castoffs is part of the game, i'm assuming as a way to gain insight on the other team. we did it atleast twice last year (colts db and bucs) with players who i'm drawing a blank on but didnt last past their respective games. it's a matter of opinion, but IMO brown would've been snatched up regardless ... what we did is take from a rival to strengthen ourselves.

2. completely bogus and i'm sure you know it. marino didnt win a ring. everyone outside of san diego wants LT who hasnt made a superbowl appearance. antowain smith has 2 rings and couldnt make it half way through preseason.

3. i got nothing, i dont know enough about brown's background to agree or argue. as far as dislodging players ... isnt that the point? fans can play favoritism til we're blue in the face, when coaches do we're in heaps of trouble. every signing should beat someone for the job ... the beauty of this signing is it's dirt cheap, these guys have to COMPETE for a job. neither is guaranteed anything.

4. injuries are a concern but as far as i can tell (which isnt far at all) none are career threatening or recurrences by default. history isnt on our side, but it's not necessarily against us either.

5. as i said in my last post, chris brown has zero effect on our draft and free agent signings. he's not being paid to save the franchise, hell at his current status he's nowhere guaranteed a roster spot.


arguing each individually makes more fun, but i'll reiterate what i've said ... every concern about brown can be squashed with one word - price. brown signed for butt nothing and if he boselli's on us we're not losing much at all. minimal loss, we lose the opportunity to sign a couple of college walkons. on the flipside if brown manages to do what he's done when healthy he can not only fit the system, but thrive in it. minimum risk, big reward. i keep going back to it, but this is our 06 defensive tackle push when we had so many injuries ... this is a spot we need filled. sign every minimum possible and see what sticks.

CloakNNNdagger
03-15-2008, 12:04 PM
Came across this video of Brown (http://www.fandome.com/watch/64899/Buffaloes_Chris_Brown%27s_Touchdowns/)from his Colorado days.............Observe his running style.........it hasn't really changed..............and one cut and go........

Scooter
03-15-2008, 12:15 PM
Came across this video of Brown (http://www.fandome.com/watch/64899/Buffaloes_Chris_Brown%27s_Touchdowns/)from his Colorado days.............Observe his running style.........it hasn't really changed.

follow the linemen, not the hole (zbs preaching) ... one cut and go

CloakNNNdagger
03-15-2008, 12:19 PM
follow the linemen, not the hole (zbs preaching) ...

You must have responded as I was adding that very same point. :toast2:

TexanAddict
03-15-2008, 12:43 PM
Just saw this after getting back from vacation. I think it is a good pickup. We could use a running back and he can use a new situation. He was a mean runner in college. He was a good back in the first couple of years of his pro career but injuries caught him. Wasn't he the guy Simmons laid out? Dislocated his shoulder I think.

Rick Smith is smart to take a chance on Brown, maybe he has a good year with the opportunities he will get with the Texans.

http://img90.exs.cx/img90/5040/chrisbrownhitedited8sx.gif

beerlover
03-15-2008, 12:59 PM
arguing each individually makes more fun, but i'll reiterate what i've said ... every concern about brown can be squashed with one word - price. brown signed for butt nothing and if he boselli's on us we're not losing much at all. minimal loss, we lose the opportunity to sign a couple of college walkons. on the flipside if brown manages to do what he's done when healthy he can not only fit the system, but thrive in it. minimum risk, big reward. i keep going back to it, but this is our 06 defensive tackle push when we had so many injuries ... this is a spot we need filled. sign every minimum possible and see what sticks.

not my intention to argue points just a reflection of what many out here are thinking :thinking: Gibbs prophecy fullfilled :photos:

Scooter
03-15-2008, 01:07 PM
lol thanks for the video ... the texans DB's arent known for their coverage skills but they'll damn sure hit somebody (simmons & dunta ... are there any smaller players in the NFL or any who hit harder?). not having to play the texans twice a year should help brown's injury risk.

Dcolbyt
03-15-2008, 04:03 PM
Where do you see Darius Walker? He looked good too!Except that his size seemed to help him and hurt him.

Dcolbyt
03-15-2008, 05:10 PM
Or what about Alexander from Seatle?

b0ng
03-15-2008, 06:27 PM
Or what about Alexander from Seatle?

My guess is that Alexander is going to sign a decent sized deal to be some poor teams RB1 or RB2. I don't think the Texans would be interested in him as they already have a somewhat injury prone RB with Green. I also imagine that this is going to make it very difficult for Darius Walker to find a spot on this team unless he really works his butt off in camp.

GP
03-15-2008, 07:27 PM
I think its a good move, what?:bat:

GP, I think you should step back for a few days, stretch the legs a bit. I am sure if you talk to Herv he can recommend a good place to chill for a while. You are starting to sound an awful lot like our resident troll Nighthawk, or worse, the infamous BoBo.

You are blasting everything the Texans do. If Rick Smith stopped to pick up a quarter you would probably start an entire thread about how Rick Smith is waisting time and thats why this team never signs any good players.

Chill, its only the offseason.

Advice taken.

I have pulled away from the dark side, and the force is now balanced again. I am burying the hatchet on the QB and RB situations. It's going to be a whole new GP--I am reformed and on the wagon. Sorry to everyone for being a titty baby for so long on those two issues.

I need to see the big picture, and not paint with a broad brush.

b0ng
03-16-2008, 02:22 AM
Thnx you GP that took guts to post. First post from an I-phone

CloakNNNdagger
03-16-2008, 08:24 AM
Advice taken.

I have pulled away from the dark side, and the force is now balanced again. I am burying the hatchet on the QB and RB situations. It's going to be a whole new GP--I am reformed and on the wagon. Sorry to everyone for being a titty baby for so long on those two issues.

I need to see the big picture, and not paint with a broad brush.

Welcome back. :thumbup

Thorn
03-16-2008, 08:30 AM
GP, I did the same thing with the Schaub trade last year. I went from being raving mad about it, to later a big supporter of it, and now I'm in a wait and see mode. As to this deal, I also didn't like it at first, but after some posts getting though my thick skull he was being signed cheap to add debth, I'm OK with it now.

We all make mistakes and then later step back and sometimes change our minds, and then change them again. LOL

It's called being human.

GP
03-16-2008, 12:22 PM
Thnx you GP that took guts to post. First post from an I-phone

I think we're getting an I-phone in a week or so. How you liking it?

Scooter
03-18-2008, 03:10 AM
i'd like to see this thread keep going. how does brown match up with our line? how does he compare with what gibbs wants? what are are go-to plays with brown in the lineup? how does brown stack up when healthy ... does he start over green or do they split time or does green start? because of age & risk, do you committee 3 or is it a 4+ way competition for exclusive #1? what type of complimentary draft are we looking at with green/brown/walker+ ? (we will draft a RB or sign many UFA's). how likely is it that neither green or brown even make the starter with both the draft and june 1st cuts coming up?

gtexan02
03-18-2008, 09:50 AM
I think the thing Im most worried about is the following depth chart:

Ahman Green - Coming off injury
Chris Brown - Coming off injury
Chris Taylor - Coming off injury

We could easily see any or all those guys go down early in the season, and that means another year of musical RB

The Pencil Neck
03-18-2008, 11:21 AM
i'd like to see this thread keep going. how does brown match up with our line? how does he compare with what gibbs wants?

When Brown was at the University of Colorado, he ran in this same system and was effective.

PapaL
03-18-2008, 11:26 AM
I think the thing Im most worried about is the following depth chart:

Ahman Green - Coming off injury
Chris Brown - Coming off injury
Chris Taylor - Coming off injury
Ron Dayne - Slow with no power

We could easily see any or all those guys go down early in the season, and that means another year of musical RB

Added one for you.

leebigeztx
03-18-2008, 12:19 PM
To be truthful about it, i dont think its anything as a franchise back anymore. I think a team has to rrun the ball which gives you a physical identity, but the rules have been set up for explosive pass plays. I'm as old school as they come and i really love smash mouth football, but at the rate rb's go down, why spend a high pick or alot of money on them? When was the last time a high 1st rd tb made it to the sb on a team? i love to watch peterson,lt and the other dynamic backs, but how many rings do they have? Peterson showed alot as a rookie, but his back up was a 4th rd pick that ran for 1200 yds the yr before and avg 5 ypc when he was hurt. The colts lost a future hof in james and a 1600 yd back and replaced him with a late 1st rd pick and a cfl guy and won the bowl.

To me its about the running game in general. The 2 superbowl teams had great running games. Maroney, the injured smith, and faulk vs. Jacobs and bradshaw. maroney was a late 1st, morris 3rd rd as well as faulk and jacobs was a 4th and bradshaw a 7th. With the success gibbs and kubes have had with backs no higher than the 2nd on portis, why would they ever pick a back in the 1st? if anyone listens to gibbs long enough from his denver days he basically only like guys out of the traditional 2 back sets that he knows can do what he wants in a back. Also he doesnt like 1st rd lineman. he gets guys specific to what he wants to do . Gibbs will coach the backs and the line for the most part. Backs like Stewart and Mendenhall that run from that spread set are pretty much out of the question.

Back to brown. Brown is probably a gibbs pick. As a titans fan 1st and texans fan 2nd although i would say i'm 51/49 now, the only limitations to brown is health. We can say thats huge and it is to some extent, but he does exactly what gibbs wants. He presses the heels of the linemen, make the cut and comes downhill. He can break the long run and doesnt get arm tackled. The concept of getting 1800-2000 yds from the running game is what will help the texans become a force. Under Shannahan and Kubes as the oc, denver was a 55/45 run pass team and avg 25ppg. They would avg 550 runs a yr which used to be 2nd only to pitts and dallas in the 90's. I expect the same here. Brown will get 225 carries, green if healthy will get 175 and 30 catches and taylor/walker will get the other 150 carries. That means brown will be at about 950-970 yds, Green at 700 yds,and the other 2 at 500 yds. to do this though, the defense has to be good enough to keep you in the run game mode or the team has to be ahead. If the defense isnt good enough and teams get a big lead early, the the carries will be down and pass attempts up.

If guy want to go and get this "franchise back" and the defense isnt good enough, the guy will be on the sideline with his helment chillin because the other team will be running the ball down their throats.

Specnatz
03-18-2008, 01:11 PM
Added one for you.

Dayne is a UFA and not on the team currently so adding him into that kist is not accurate.

Scooter
03-20-2008, 06:05 AM
To be truthful about it, i dont think its anything as a franchise back anymore. I think a team has to rrun the ball which gives you a physical identity, but the rules have been set up for explosive pass plays. I'm as old school as they come and i really love smash mouth football, but at the rate rb's go down, why spend a high pick or alot of money on them? When was the last time a high 1st rd tb made it to the sb on a team? i love to watch peterson,lt and the other dynamic backs, but how many rings do they have? Peterson showed alot as a rookie, but his back up was a 4th rd pick that ran for 1200 yds the yr before and avg 5 ypc when he was hurt. The colts lost a future hof in james and a 1600 yd back and replaced him with a late 1st rd pick and a cfl guy and won the bowl.

To me its about the running game in general. The 2 superbowl teams had great running games. Maroney, the injured smith, and faulk vs. Jacobs and bradshaw. maroney was a late 1st, morris 3rd rd as well as faulk and jacobs was a 4th and bradshaw a 7th. With the success gibbs and kubes have had with backs no higher than the 2nd on portis, why would they ever pick a back in the 1st? if anyone listens to gibbs long enough from his denver days he basically only like guys out of the traditional 2 back sets that he knows can do what he wants in a back. Also he doesnt like 1st rd lineman. he gets guys specific to what he wants to do . Gibbs will coach the backs and the line for the most part. Backs like Stewart and Mendenhall that run from that spread set are pretty much out of the question.

Back to brown. Brown is probably a gibbs pick. As a titans fan 1st and texans fan 2nd although i would say i'm 51/49 now, the only limitations to brown is health. We can say thats huge and it is to some extent, but he does exactly what gibbs wants. He presses the heels of the linemen, make the cut and comes downhill. He can break the long run and doesnt get arm tackled. The concept of getting 1800-2000 yds from the running game is what will help the texans become a force. Under Shannahan and Kubes as the oc, denver was a 55/45 run pass team and avg 25ppg. They would avg 550 runs a yr which used to be 2nd only to pitts and dallas in the 90's. I expect the same here. Brown will get 225 carries, green if healthy will get 175 and 30 catches and taylor/walker will get the other 150 carries. That means brown will be at about 950-970 yds, Green at 700 yds,and the other 2 at 500 yds. to do this though, the defense has to be good enough to keep you in the run game mode or the team has to be ahead. If the defense isnt good enough and teams get a big lead early, the the carries will be down and pass attempts up.

If guy want to go and get this "franchise back" and the defense isnt good enough, the guy will be on the sideline with his helment chillin because the other team will be running the ball down their throats.

easily the best post i've read in a long time. it's nice to see common sense isnt lost in hype.