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View Full Version : Draft RB/LT w 1st Pick to Finally Develop an Identity


ToxicButt
03-05-2008, 11:25 AM
To me, it seems we're staring at the first true opportunity to make a run for the playoffs in the upcoming year. Yet, we have talent gaps. More importantly, we have yet to develop an identity.

Every team needs a calling card or a phase of the game that is highly consistent. Our offense is well ahead of our defense and is closest to reaching that level. (I would normally gravitate towards building a team based on defense.) QB, WR, TE are strengths. My lean is to use the first round pick on RB or LT to solidify our offensive unit, and between those choices, my lean would be to pick Mendenhall or Stewart if available.

Either of those guys would make a huge impact on the offense right away, even if we stand pat with our O-Line and just let them get coached up by Gibbs. Our offense was pretty decent last year, even with the rash of injuries. Health permitting, we have an excellent WR corps that has serious upside in Jacoby Jones. OD is an emerging talent at TE. Schaub and Sage are steady and have upside as well. I think we have a chance to be a top 10 offense this year if we pick up a legitimate back like Mendenhall or Stewart. Possibly higher if Schaub, Jones and Mendenhall/Stewart develop. Obviously, this would help to keep the Peyton Mannings of the world off the field and help our defense.

That said, if Smith/Kubiak like Chris Williams, I'm ok with that, but I don't think he'd have as much impact this year. I usually have a longer term outlook and don't focus on "this year", but I think it's important for the Texans to do so.

We need to develop a culture/expectation of winning, and near term success would do wonders for the mentality of this organization and the perception by players in free agency. (Also, there's a part of me that would just like to see a talented young runningback tote the rock. If this is about entertainment, I'd enjoy knowing that Mendenhall or Stewart could go the distance on any given play.)

I can see how many would prefer to go LT/CB/RB or CB/LT/RB in rounds 1, 3 and 4. I generally agree that it's easier to find a diamond in the rough at RB in round 4 than the other opsitions. However, I think Mendenhall and Stewart have the ability to be special.

First thread after years of lurking. Would enjoy hearing the thoughts of others.

beerlover
03-05-2008, 11:28 AM
excellent first post :)

tulexan
03-05-2008, 11:32 AM
Drafting a good CB will help us build an identity of a monster defense. This draft has too many good running backs to pick one in the first round.

BigBull17
03-05-2008, 11:40 AM
Drafting a good CB will help us build an identity of a monster defense. This draft has too many good running backs to pick one in the first round.

Agreed. The identity we want to build is a dominant defense.

beerlover
03-05-2008, 11:46 AM
as with any postion it depends on who is available, bpa or trade down offers :twocents:

YoungTexanFan
03-05-2008, 11:58 AM
as with any postion it depends on who is available, bpa or trade down offers :twocents:

As it always does, but the original poster was posing the "what if" to drafting a player solely in attempt to establish an identity.

I do not believe we are ready to draft like that just yet. We have holes to fill still, granted FA isn't over, but we aren't ready to add a marque player like McFadden (only an example of talent) to our team. We needs a few more pieces before we can establish our identity. Also, remember that our defense is young, very young. Mario, Okoye, Ryans, Bennett, and even TJ. You have to realize that this team has been orchestrated for our defense to be the identity of our team. When those young players come into their own, our defense will leapfrog our offense as the better unit, and honestly, I feel the defense is closer to being our identity than the offense. Defense gets us to the playoffs, that will be our identity.

ToxicButt
03-05-2008, 12:13 PM
Given my druthers, I'd rather build a defensive identity too. But I differ on my outlook regarding our defensive talent. Mario has the makings of a long term stud. DeMeco too. After that, we have average or below average players everywhere. Okoye will hopefully develop into a plus player, if not premier. Our OLB's are no better than decent NFL starters, and possibly worse. Our entire secondary is the same.

In contrast, on offense, we have plus players at QB, TE, WR, featuring Andre Johnson as the pro bowler, with JJones, OD, Schaub, Davis, Winston as plus players with legitimate upside.

Looking at it from every angle, I just don't see the defensive talent being close to ready to becoming our identity. We're another draft away from being there.

infantrycak
03-05-2008, 12:23 PM
we aren't ready to add a marque player like McFadden (only an example of talent) to our team.

Huh? That doesn't make any sense at all. Teams draft marque players all the time when they aren't already playoff teams--in fact that is generally how they get them. Did it not make sense for us to draft AJ in 2003?

Having a good D is obviously important and something Kubiak values, but keep in mind that Kubiak is an O guy. Having said that, I think he is confident enough in his coaching the O that he doesn't mind spending picks on D as he did with Mario, Demeco and Okoye.

Specnatz
03-05-2008, 12:41 PM
Huh? That doesn't make any sense at all. Teams draft marque players all the time when they aren't already playoff teams--in fact that is generally how they get them. Did it not make sense for us to draft AJ in 2003?

Having a good D is obviously important and something Kubiak values, but keep in mind that Kubiak is an O guy. Having said that, I think he is confident enough in his coaching the O that he doesn't mind spending picks on D as he did with Mario, Demeco and Okoye.

Exactly, Marquee players are usally taken in the first 5 spots of the draft.

Insideop
03-05-2008, 12:50 PM
Good 1st post!

I don't know about establishing an identity or which side of the ball is closer to being dominate, but I will say, IMO, there is a drop off in talent after McFadden, Mendenhall, and Stewart. I'm not as sold on most of the other RB's as most people are on this board. Most seem to be the light weight "scatback" types like Reggie Bush. So, I agree with you that if Mendenhall or Stewart are there at #18, then we should take either one. But in all honesty, with the way it looks now, I think both will probably be gone by #18, and if that's the case, I hope we look at CB, LT, or trade down. JMHO!

El Tejano
03-05-2008, 01:12 PM
I like it when I see a kid who takes a no name team and makes them good. That being said, I will not get mad if we pass on the RB until round 3 and get Ray Rice.

Maddict5
03-05-2008, 01:33 PM
with our recent FA moves (and especially if the sage trade goes ahead), anybody see us taking derrick harvey if hes still there at #18? that'd be awesome- partly because it has the makings of a great d-line (and identity) and partly because of the reaction of some

then go something like
2nd: OL (anthony collins)
3rd: RB (rice/forte/kevin smith)
4th: CB (chevis jackson/trae williams)

jmont93
03-05-2008, 01:47 PM
I like it when I see a kid who takes a no name team and makes them good. That being said, I will not get mad if we pass on the RB until round 3 and get Ray Rice.

Getting a guy like Ray Rice in the third round and drafting Chris Williams in the first would be a solid first two picks.

beerlover
03-05-2008, 01:50 PM
Exactly, Marquee players are usally taken in the first 5 spots of the draft.

I was :thinking: Mario Williams would be the #1 pick in this (08) draft class too. Mario's numbers where just dumbfounding 6070 295 lbs & ran a 4.70 forty are you kdding me? then you add in a 40 1/2 vertical, 35 reps on the bench with long arms (34 1/8). I'm guessing he would also have been the #1 pick in 05 & 07. :mario: :mario2: :mario3:

TheRealJoker
03-05-2008, 02:03 PM
I would cream my pants if we got Chris Williams and Ray Rice in the same draft!!!:whip:

Specnatz
03-05-2008, 02:05 PM
I would cream my pants if we got Chris Williams and Ray Rice in the same draft!!!:whip:

Is that allowed with your celebacy pledge? :thisbig:

YoungTexanFan
03-05-2008, 03:08 PM
Good 1st post!

I don't know about establishing an identity or which side of the ball is closer to being dominate, but I will say, IMO, there is a drop off in talent after McFadden, Mendenhall, and Stewart. I'm not as sold on most of the other RB's as most people are on this board. Most seem to be the light weight "scatback" types like Reggie Bush. So, I agree with you that if Mendenhall or Stewart are there at #18, then we should take either one. But in all honesty, with the way it looks now, I think both will probably be gone by #18, and if that's the case, I hope we look at CB, LT, or trade down. JMHO!


McFadden and Reggie Bush are more similar than most people care to realize.

Maddict5
03-05-2008, 03:20 PM
i see what you're saying but mcfadden has a stiff arm reggie doesnt

otisbean
03-05-2008, 04:38 PM
McFadden and Reggie Bush are more similar than most people care to realize.

The only thing similar about McFadden and Bush is their speed. DMac runs with much more power then Bush - not even close. Also, Bush put up his numbers on a VERY talented team, not the same with D Mac. When Ark played everyone in the stadium knew who the ball was going to and he still put up numbers. They had little to no passing game. If you don't like a player thats fine but to compare a legit Rb that can tote the rock 25 times a game and be effective in an ultra tough conference like the SEC to a glorified 3rd down back (albeit a VERY good one) is not a fair one.

bah007
03-05-2008, 05:00 PM
McFadden may run with power if you hit him high, but if you touch his legs he goes down.

YoungTexanFan
03-05-2008, 05:12 PM
The only thing similar about McFadden and Bush is their speed. DMac runs with much more power then Bush - not even close. Also, Bush put up his numbers on a VERY talented team, not the same with D Mac. When Ark played everyone in the stadium knew who the ball was going to and he still put up numbers. They had little to no passing game. If you don't like a player thats fine but to compare a legit Rb that can tote the rock 25 times a game and be effective in an ultra tough conference like the SEC to a glorified 3rd down back (albeit a VERY good one) is not a fair one.

They both have similar running styles. I agree McFadden is the better prospect, but he is similar to Bush in style. Their best runs are to the outside utilizing their speed, and they both have the occasional run up the middle for big gains, more so with McFadden. I think the kid will be better than bush now that he isn't considered the #1 overall lock like Bush was, but we need to look at players subjectively.

markn
03-05-2008, 05:45 PM
with our recent FA moves (and especially if the sage trade goes ahead), anybody see us taking derrick harvey if hes still there at #18? that'd be awesome- partly because it has the makings of a great d-line (and identity) and partly because of the reaction of some

then go something like
2nd: OL (anthony collins)
3rd: RB (rice/forte/kevin smith)
4th: CB (chevis jackson/trae williams)

I mentioned the possibility of Harvey still being there at 18 in another thread and I think there's an outside chance he will. I've seen him projected from about 8 - 17 so there's a chance.

If he was, Personally, I'd love that pick.

Oh - we've no 2nd rounder, btw!

edo783
03-05-2008, 07:09 PM
I also see the draft developing into a RB/LT pick given how FA has went so far. Given the group in the FO I would normally expect them to go LT then RB, but with Gibbs on board and his penchant for picking O-line later, I wouldn't be very surprised to see a RB taken at 18 particularly, if either Mendenhall or Stewart are there. If Williamas and/or Clady are also there, it will be one heck of a delima to make the call. IMO, pick anyone of those 4 players at 18 and you have probably got a winner.

beerlover
03-05-2008, 07:16 PM
I also see the draft developing into a RB/LT pick given how FA has went so far. Given the group in the FO I would normally expect them to go LT then RB, but with Gibbs on board and his penchant for picking O-line later, I wouldn't be very surprised to see a RB taken at 18 particularly, if either Mendenhall or Stewart are there. If Williamas and/or Clady are also there, it will be one heck of a delima to make the call. IMO, pick anyone of those 4 players at 18 and you have probably got a winner.

Clady :)

Maddict5
03-06-2008, 04:54 AM
I mentioned the possibility of Harvey still being there at 18 in another thread and I think there's an outside chance he will. I've seen him projected from about 8 - 17 so there's a chance.

If he was, Personally, I'd love that pick.

Oh - we've no 2nd rounder, btw!


sage trade:thisbig:

threetoedpete
03-06-2008, 01:08 PM
Clady :)

http://www.draftseason.com/Lupagus

B@ker/ Double RR.

this guy put 5, count them five OTs off the first round.
http://www.draftseason.com/Outhouse

Don't like the K. U. club foot . Saints - Aquib Talib CB Kansas.

bah007
03-06-2008, 01:15 PM
http://www.draftseason.com/Lupagus

B@ker/ Double RR.

this guy put 5, count them five OTs off the first round.
http://www.draftseason.com/Outhouse

Don't like the K. U. club foot . Saints - Aquib Talib CB Kansas.

Keith Rivers falling to #20?

That's laughable.

Insideop
03-06-2008, 02:06 PM
http://www.draftseason.com/Lupagus

B@ker/ Double RR.

this guy put 5, count them five OTs off the first round.
http://www.draftseason.com/Outhouse

Don't like the K. U. club foot . Saints - Aquib Talib CB Kansas.

I counted 6! :thisbig:

Jake Long at #1
Ryan Clady at #5
Chris Williams at #12
Jeff Otah at #23
Sam Baker at #27
Gosder Cherilus at #29

And we didn't take any of them!

PHAROAH
03-06-2008, 03:22 PM
I would cream my pants if we got Chris Williams and Ray Rice in the same draft!!!:whip:You know what they would both be perfect for what we trying to get accomplished and I think that Ray Rice is going to be a very good NFL running back.

badboy
03-06-2008, 03:26 PM
To me, it seems we're staring at the first true opportunity to make a run for the playoffs in the upcoming year. Yet, we have talent gaps. More importantly, we have yet to develop an identity.

Every team needs a calling card or a phase of the game that is highly consistent. Our offense is well ahead of our defense and is closest to reaching that level. (I would normally gravitate towards building a team based on defense.) QB, WR, TE are strengths. My lean is to use the first round pick on RB or LT to solidify our offensive unit, and between those choices, my lean would be to pick Mendenhall or Stewart if available.

Either of those guys would make a huge impact on the offense right away, even if we stand pat with our O-Line and just let them get coached up by Gibbs. Our offense was pretty decent last year, even with the rash of injuries. Health permitting, we have an excellent WR corps that has serious upside in Jacoby Jones. OD is an emerging talent at TE. Schaub and Sage are steady and have upside as well. I think we have a chance to be a top 10 offense this year if we pick up a legitimate back like Mendenhall or Stewart. Possibly higher if Schaub, Jones and Mendenhall/Stewart develop. Obviously, this would help to keep the Peyton Mannings of the world off the field and help our defense.

That said, if Smith/Kubiak like Chris Williams, I'm ok with that, but I don't think he'd have as much impact this year. I usually have a longer term outlook and don't focus on "this year", but I think it's important for the Texans to do so.

We need to develop a culture/expectation of winning, and near term success would do wonders for the mentality of this organization and the perception by players in free agency. (Also, there's a part of me that would just like to see a talented young runningback tote the rock. If this is about entertainment, I'd enjoy knowing that Mendenhall or Stewart could go the distance on any given play.)

I can see how many would prefer to go LT/CB/RB or CB/LT/RB in rounds 1, 3 and 4. I generally agree that it's easier to find a diamond in the rough at RB in round 4 than the other opsitions. However, I think Mendenhall and Stewart have the ability to be special.

First thread after years of lurking. Would enjoy hearing the thoughts of others.Good post. I want the hope and excitement of a powerful offense that averages 21+ points/game with a solid D as my confidence maker. If Williams is avail I select him over Stewart as I see both as "franchise" type players at their positions. Stewart may be there but I don't see Williams or Mendenhall at #18. There are no satisfactory backs in third or lower other than Forte. The others are scat backs imo or avg Rbs such as Hart, CHoice or Allen. There are LTs as low as 4th with Tony Hills. He & Forte could be gone before we pick.

My predictions is Stewart in first barring a trade down that I do not expect and Hills in 3rd. You get a franchise back and a solid LT for 10-12 years. Hills may not be starter ready as soon as I want but should spot Salaam and be there by latter part of season. I like Forte but no guarantee he will be there in 3rd and no tackle in first moves me away from Stewart. I would go Cb in 4th. Trae Williams?

badboy
03-06-2008, 03:27 PM
You know what they would both be perfect for what we trying to get accomplished and I think that Ray Rice is going to be a very good NFL running back.Rice will be gone in second round or early 3rd.

infantrycak
03-06-2008, 03:42 PM
Good post. I want the hope and excitement of a powerful offense that averages 21+ points/game with a solid D as my confidence maker.

We averaged 23.7 last year--solid D is definitely something to work on.

badboy
03-06-2008, 03:51 PM
We averaged 23.7 last year--solid D is definitely something to work on.Agreed and we will do that with Demps as 16 game starter; Reeves an improvement over Hutchins; CC and Earl back healthy at SS; Diles at OLB; the two Brandon boys (Mitchell and Harrison); Bennett as 16 game starter and a much better offense that keeps defense and the other team's offense off field. A power runner with 4.48 speed will do that.

Second Honeymoon
03-06-2008, 05:32 PM
To me, it seems we're staring at the first true opportunity to make a run for the playoffs in the upcoming year. Yet, we have talent gaps. More importantly, we have yet to develop an identity.

Every team needs a calling card or a phase of the game that is highly consistent. Our offense is well ahead of our defense and is closest to reaching that level. (I would normally gravitate towards building a team based on defense.) QB, WR, TE are strengths. My lean is to use the first round pick on RB or LT to solidify our offensive unit, and between those choices, my lean would be to pick Mendenhall or Stewart if available.

Either of those guys would make a huge impact on the offense right away, even if we stand pat with our O-Line and just let them get coached up by Gibbs. Our offense was pretty decent last year, even with the rash of injuries. Health permitting, we have an excellent WR corps that has serious upside in Jacoby Jones. OD is an emerging talent at TE. Schaub and Sage are steady and have upside as well. I think we have a chance to be a top 10 offense this year if we pick up a legitimate back like Mendenhall or Stewart. Possibly higher if Schaub, Jones and Mendenhall/Stewart develop. Obviously, this would help to keep the Peyton Mannings of the world off the field and help our defense.

That said, if Smith/Kubiak like Chris Williams, I'm ok with that, but I don't think he'd have as much impact this year. I usually have a longer term outlook and don't focus on "this year", but I think it's important for the Texans to do so.

We need to develop a culture/expectation of winning, and near term success would do wonders for the mentality of this organization and the perception by players in free agency. (Also, there's a part of me that would just like to see a talented young runningback tote the rock. If this is about entertainment, I'd enjoy knowing that Mendenhall or Stewart could go the distance on any given play.)

I can see how many would prefer to go LT/CB/RB or CB/LT/RB in rounds 1, 3 and 4. I generally agree that it's easier to find a diamond in the rough at RB in round 4 than the other opsitions. However, I think Mendenhall and Stewart have the ability to be special.

First thread after years of lurking. Would enjoy hearing the thoughts of others.

good post but drafting so we have an 'identity' didn't really help the first time we tried it. DC comes to mind. Epic Fail.

Let's just get the guy who they think is the best player available at a position of need although I would prefer they not draft a RB at #18 and that is a position of need. I just think we can get a RB candidate later that could do well in a RBBC system that is employed by Gibbs/Kubes.

ToxicButt
03-06-2008, 06:48 PM
When I say draft LT or RB to establish identity/winning tradition, I don't mean we should do that by "reaching'. I'm assuming, perhaps I should have expressly stated so, that Stewart, Mendenhall, Williams and the top flight CB's such as Taliq, DRC, Cason are graded by Texans brass as reasonably close to each other, and the question is direction of team.

If they are graded closely, I'd prefer we go with Mendenhall, Williams or Stewart, in that order.

ToxicButt
03-06-2008, 06:49 PM
Good post. I want the hope and excitement of a powerful offense that averages 21+ points/game with a solid D as my confidence maker. If Williams is avail I select him over Stewart as I see both as "franchise" type players at their positions. Stewart may be there but I don't see Williams or Mendenhall at #18. There are no satisfactory backs in third or lower other than Forte. The others are scat backs imo or avg Rbs such as Hart, CHoice or Allen. There are LTs as low as 4th with Tony Hills. He & Forte could be gone before we pick.

My predictions is Stewart in first barring a trade down that I do not expect and Hills in 3rd. You get a franchise back and a solid LT for 10-12 years. Hills may not be starter ready as soon as I want but should spot Salaam and be there by latter part of season. I like Forte but no guarantee he will be there in 3rd and no tackle in first moves me away from Stewart. I would go Cb in 4th. Trae Williams?

Does Hills project well in the zone blocking scheme? If so, I'd prefer Mendenhall/Stewart in the first, Hills in the 3rd over Williams in the 1st, Forte/Rice/Choice in the 3rd.

infantrycak
03-06-2008, 09:25 PM
I just think we can get a RB candidate later that could do well in a RBBC system that is employed by Gibbs/Kubes.

This is another of the myths floating out there. Shanahan/Gibbs/Kubiak will ride a successful back into the ground. Look at the years where they were not plagued by injury and you will see one back getting the vast majority of the carries. The two backs that define the Gibbs/Kubiak era in Denver are Davis and Portis. When they were healthy, they toted the rock.

Vinny
03-07-2008, 07:22 PM
This is another of the myths floating out there. Shanahan/Gibbs/Kubiak will ride a successful back into the ground. Look at the years where they were not plagued by injury and you will see one back getting the vast majority of the carries. The two backs that define the Gibbs/Kubiak era in Denver are Davis and Portis. When they were healthy, they toted the rock.I'd agree...and another thing (the Denver offense thing) is that this vaunted Denver system has won only one playoff game since Elway retired. Elway won at least 12 playoff games and went to 5 Super Bowls. A long host of marginal backs or great backs have not made much difference in their success after their HOF QB retired. Having great QB play is more important than having a back produce.

gary
03-07-2008, 07:33 PM
Agreed. The identity we want to build is a dominant defense. Defense wins you championships.