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LZ
02-21-2008, 02:47 PM
I'm sorry to use this forum to promote my show, but I wanted to make sure you guys knew about it so that you wouldn't miss the first airing tonight since you guys are interested in the draft.

The show is the "Z Report Draft Show" and it is on 1560 AM from 6 to 7 PM every Thursday starting tonight.

If you have any issues with hearing it over the air, we will also stream it at 1560thegame.com. All you have to do is click "Listen Live".

If you want to stream in on your phone (provided you have Windows Media Player), you can click here: http://wmc2.liquidcompass.cc/KGOW

The first two or three shows will be taped, but the ones after that will be live and we will be taking calls and emails so I'm hoping you guys will be interested in listening and participating whether you live in Houston or not.

Today's Topics:

- Area (Texas) Draft Prospects
- QB Ratings
- Players who might be most effected by the combine
- Texans Needs
- Recent Franchise Tags


I've taken up enough space so thanks for your consideration. Now back to discussing Jonathan Stewart and "ZBS".

Errant Hothy
02-21-2008, 02:56 PM
Lance, thanks for coming to our little corner of the internet.

Please feel free to stop by when ever, and thanks for answering all of our questions in Chron's draft chat earlier this week.

infantrycak
02-21-2008, 03:11 PM
Don't mind the advertising if you will participate around here as well.

LZ
02-21-2008, 03:45 PM
Don't mind the advertising if you will participate around here as well.


I would love to.

Lucky
02-21-2008, 04:36 PM
- Area (Texas) Draft Prospects

I think as many as 6 local college products could go in the top 3 rounds:

Jamaal Charles - RB - UT (early 2nd)
Donnie Avery - WR - UH (mid 2nd)
Limas Sweed - WR - UT (mid 2nd)
Martellus Bennett - TE - A&M (late 2nd)
Frank Okam - DT - UT (3rd)
Red Bryant - DT - A&M (3rd)

The top Texas HS players in the draft are Kansas CB Aqib Talib and OU WR Malcolm Kelly, both probable mid 1st round picks.

LZ
02-21-2008, 04:40 PM
I think as many as 6 local college products could go in the top 3 rounds:

Jamaal Charles - RB - UT (early 2nd)
Donnie Avery - WR - UH (mid 2nd)
Limas Sweed - WR - UT (mid 2nd)
Martellus Bennett - TE - A&M (late 2nd)
Frank Okam - DT - UT (3rd)
Red Bryant - DT - A&M (3rd)

The top Texas HS players in the draft are Kansas CB Aqib Talib and OU WR Malcolm Kelly, both probable mid 1st round picks.


I would probably disagree on Okam and Bryant going in the top 3 rounds, but with their size, you never know. If Sweed runs well, he'll go in the 1st. Jermichael Finley is a wild-card in this draft because some teams hate him and some like him. I've heard he's not as athletic as everyone expects so I'm interested to see where his numbers end up this week.

Nawzer
02-21-2008, 04:46 PM
Welcome to the board LZ. Will make sure to tune in. Anyway, I thought Martellus Bennett was a sure fire first rounder.

LZ
02-21-2008, 04:48 PM
Welcome to the board LZ. Will make sure to tune in. Anyway, I thought Martellus Bennett was a sure fire first rounder.

You have to be a pretty special tight end to go in the first. He'll probably be in the 2nd and no later than the 3rd.

bah007
02-21-2008, 04:57 PM
I would probably disagree on Okam and Bryant going in the top 3 rounds, but with their size, you never know. If Sweed runs well, he'll go in the 1st. Jermichael Finley is a wild-card in this draft because some teams hate him and some like him. I've heard he's not as athletic as everyone expects so I'm interested to see where his numbers end up this week.

Finley is a physical freak. He will wreck shop at the combine.

Just dont put a blocking dummy in front of him. That's where teams will be scared off.




..........oops

Errant Hothy
02-21-2008, 05:16 PM
Am I in the minority in thinking that Martel Van Zant will be drafted late on day 2?

I'm thinking that I am, but since we're talking about players with Texas roots I thought I'd bring him up.

Errant Hothy
02-21-2008, 05:27 PM
I think as many as 6 local college products could go in the top 3 rounds:

Jamaal Charles - RB - UT (early 2nd)
Donnie Avery - WR - UH (mid 2nd)
Limas Sweed - WR - UT (mid 2nd)
Martellus Bennett - TE - A&M (late 2nd)
Frank Okam - DT - UT (3rd)
Red Bryant - DT - A&M (3rd)

The top Texas HS players in the draft are Kansas CB Aqib Talib and OU WR Malcolm Kelly, both probable mid 1st round picks.

No Tony Hills in the first 3 rounds.

Ole Miss Texan
02-21-2008, 05:31 PM
No Tony Hills in the first 3 rounds.

I think it must depend on how he's recovering from his fractured fibula he suffered 3 months ago.

LZ
02-21-2008, 05:33 PM
I think it must depend on how he's recovering from his fractured fibula he suffered 3 months ago.


He was 6'5 / 315 today so I'm sure teams are very happy to see that he's been able to keep his weight in check since he is one of the better athletes at tackle in this draft with that kind of size.

edo783
02-21-2008, 05:36 PM
Welcome to the board LZ and I appreciate your input.

bah007
02-21-2008, 05:43 PM
I think it must depend on how he's recovering from his fractured fibula he suffered 3 months ago.

He's not participating in the combine (just the weigh-in) so I think that hurts him.

He is only gonna run at the UT Pro Day.

bah007
02-21-2008, 05:46 PM
Am I in the minority in thinking that Martel Van Zant will be drafted late on day 2?

I'm thinking that I am, but since we're talking about players with Texas roots I thought I'd bring him up.

The kid is a player, that's for sure.

But the fact that he is deaf is gonna scare some teams off. Whether it should, is debatable, but it will.

Errant Hothy
02-21-2008, 06:02 PM
It's showtime!

Love the theme/intro song...draft show...draft show...draft show!

bah007
02-21-2008, 07:33 PM
Finley is a physical freak. He will wreck shop at the combine.

Just dont put a blocking dummy in front of him. That's where teams will be scared off.

At least he is honest.

Asked about his blocking ability, Texas tight end Jermichael Finley impressed with his honesty. "It's not good at all," he said, "but I'm going to work my butt off to make it great."

http://myespn.go.com/profile/hashmarks?lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1

nero THE zero
02-21-2008, 08:42 PM
Welcome to the board LZ and keep off my milkshake.

TEXANS84
02-21-2008, 08:52 PM
Welcome to the board Lance, enjoyed the show.

Brando
02-21-2008, 09:03 PM
Cool! I'll listen next week for sure. It's good to have you on board!

:fans:

beerlover
02-21-2008, 10:13 PM
boyz & girlz looks like there's a new draft guru on board, welcome :cool:

bah007
02-21-2008, 11:01 PM
Am I in the minority in thinking that Martel Van Zant will be drafted late on day 2?

I'm thinking that I am, but since we're talking about players with Texas roots I thought I'd bring him up.

Here's a story on why he wasnt invited to the combine.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/columns/story?id=3257497

ChampionTexan
02-21-2008, 11:27 PM
LZ -

Are you going to put up a podcast of tonight's (and future) show on the station website?

badboy
02-22-2008, 12:39 PM
Hey Lance, long time..well you know. Enjoyed you on previous radio show and try to get you on 1560 in morning. Do you still have email address on Harris the guy that used to do college evals? I exchanged emails with him semi-frequently but last one I sent in late 2007 did not go through. Pretty knowledgeable guy. Welcome to this MB. Look forward to blasting ideas off you.

Steve in El Lago

aj.
02-22-2008, 12:47 PM
... Do you still have email address on Harris the guy that used to do college evals? I exchanged emails with him semi-frequently but last one I sent in late 2007 did not go through. Pretty knowledgeable guy...

John Harris works at the station with LZ. He co-hosts the afternoon show with Sean of Cablanasian fame. Go to their website and you can find their contact info there.

http://1560thegame.com/page9_sub.php?id=82

They were talking about replaying the draft show tonight at 6. Not sure if they were serious or not.

badboy
02-22-2008, 12:51 PM
John Harris works at the station with LZ. He co-hosts the afternoon show with Sean of Cablanasian fame. Go to their website and you can find their contact info there.

http://1560thegame.com/page9_sub.php?id=82

They were talking about replaying the draft show tonight at 6. Not sure if they were serious or not.
Hey, thanks aj. John Harris is a good guy and even when busy responded to my questions with patience and grace.

DiehardChris
02-22-2008, 01:02 PM
Whoa, Lance it's gonna be great to have you here, especially with draft coming up. I know a lot of us read and comment on your blog, so it's cool that you're going to find some time to post here as well.

bah007
02-23-2008, 01:32 PM
Jermichael Finley is a wild-card in this draft because some teams hate him and some like him. I've heard he's not as athletic as everyone expects so I'm interested to see where his numbers end up this week.

Wow.

These are not official.

But I'm hearing reports that Finley only jumped 27 & a half in the vertical (If you dont think that is bad, I did that in high school).

And his 40 was in the mid 4.8s

Just a terrible day for him. Apparently, he was in a bad mood all day & seemed completely uninterested in being there.

Honoring Earl 34
02-23-2008, 01:55 PM
Wow.

These are not official.

But I'm hearing reports that Finley only jumped 27 & a half in the vertical (If you dont think that is bad, I did that in high school).

And his 40 was in the mid 4.8s

Just a terrible day for him. Apparently, he was in a bad mood all day & seemed completely uninterested in being there.

I watched it . Mayock was ranting about him before he ran , then said he looked faster on tape . They used the first half of the Sooners game as a reference of his talent .

The Purdue guy Dustin Keller stole the show folllowed by Brad Cottam the 6'7 guy from Tenessee . The MSU guy Kellen Davis I think looked real good also .

bah007
02-23-2008, 01:57 PM
I watched it . Mayock was ranting about him before he ran , then said he looked faster on tape . They used the first half of the Sooners game as a reference of his talent .

The Purdue guy Dustin Keller stole the show folllowed by Brad Cottam the 6'7 guy from Tenessee . The MSU guy Kellen Davis I think looked real good also .

Keller & Davis will be steals on day two.

Honoring Earl 34
02-23-2008, 02:02 PM
Keller & Davis will be steals on day two.

They did'nt have a Kellen Winslow jr or a the workout king that went to the 9ers but it seemed to be a very deep class of TE .

It would'nt surprise me if the Texans drafted one in the later rounds based on being the BPA .

TexansSeminole
02-23-2008, 02:16 PM
Keller & Davis will be steals on day two.

I've seen Davis play, he is a good player. Judging from this performance today, Keller has 1st round TE measurables. How is his production?

bah007
02-23-2008, 02:18 PM
I've seen Davis play, he is a good player. Judging from this performance today, Keller has 1st round TE measurables. How is his production?

68 catches, 881 yds, & 7 TDs. Those stats might be misleading though cuz they throw, a lot.

Keller could have gone from the 3rd or 4th round to the 2nd round today.

Honoring Earl 34
02-23-2008, 02:21 PM
68 catches, 881 yds, & 7 TDs.

Keller could have gone from the 3rd or 4th round to the 2nd round today.

I think they said he may have had some off field issues FWIW . He also played DE at MSU .

I bet he goes in the 2nd .

TexansFanatic
02-23-2008, 02:37 PM
LZ!!! Great to have you on this board! I'm a big fan of you and Granato. So glad you guys are back. Keep up the great work.

And tell SEC Fan to come to the cotillion----we're serving mint juleps!

LZ
02-23-2008, 07:34 PM
Hey Lance, long time..well you know. Enjoyed you on previous radio show and try to get you on 1560 in morning. Do you still have email address on Harris the guy that used to do college evals? I exchanged emails with him semi-frequently but last one I sent in late 2007 did not go through. Pretty knowledgeable guy. Welcome to this MB. Look forward to blasting ideas off you.

Steve in El Lago

Harris hosts the afternoon show on 1560 and you can find him at seanandjohn@1560thegame.com

LZ
02-23-2008, 07:37 PM
I watched it . Mayock was ranting about him before he ran , then said he looked faster on tape . They used the first half of the Sooners game as a reference of his talent .

The Purdue guy Dustin Keller stole the show folllowed by Brad Cottam the 6'7 guy from Tenessee . The MSU guy Kellen Davis I think looked real good also .

My buddy who scouts this area has been telling me that he wasn't as good an athlete as everyone was saying and when I told him that Mayock had him in the top 5 before the combine he said "He must hate TEs who block. It doesn't matter because he won't be in his top 5 after the combine because he won't test like Mayock or anyone else expects."

LZ
02-23-2008, 07:39 PM
Did you guys see some of Zuttah's (Rutgers RT) numbers? I thought he looked good but inconsistent at the Shrine practices. Rutgers runs almost nothing but zone so he might be a late round guy the Texans look at or maybe even a potential guard.

beerlover
02-23-2008, 11:02 PM
Did you guys see some of Zuttah's (Rutgers RT) numbers? I thought he looked good but inconsistent at the Shrine practices. Rutgers runs almost nothing but zone so he might be a late round guy the Texans look at or maybe even a potential guard.

like your thinking just the type of devalued versatile lineman that can play both positions for Gibbs style, where as Chris Williams stock is soaring :snobord: thanks for reminding us there are other good prospects who can help this OL deeper into the draft :cool:

The Pencil Neck
02-23-2008, 11:21 PM
Did you guys see some of Zuttah's (Rutgers RT) numbers? I thought he looked good but inconsistent at the Shrine practices. Rutgers runs almost nothing but zone so he might be a late round guy the Texans look at or maybe even a potential guard.

It brings up the question: which of our linemen aren't going to be able to make it under Gibbs? Are bigger guys like Studdard and Spencer going to be out? After this performance in the combine, how late is Zuttah going to be available?

The guy that made me go "who? what? where?" was Heath Benedict. I don't follow college ball so I don't know all these guys like a lot of the posters here but NEWBERRY? What the heck is NEWBERRY? And this guy was initially at Tennessee and had some sort of academic problems? Is this guy a workout warrior or is he for real?

And is Cody Wallace a possibility at center? He tested pretty good (4 top 5's) even though the book on him says he's not mobile.

whiskeyrbl
02-24-2008, 06:02 AM
Welcome to the board LZ. Have a question for you. As far as late rd.(4,5,6) RB's go, do you think the Texans might have any interest in Xavier Omon out of NW Missouri State ?

YoungTexanFan
02-24-2008, 10:53 AM
It brings up the question: which of our linemen aren't going to be able to make it under Gibbs? Are bigger guys like Studdard and Spencer going to be out? After this performance in the combine, how late is Zuttah going to be available?

The guy that made me go "who? what? where?" was Heath Benedict. I don't follow college ball so I don't know all these guys like a lot of the posters here but NEWBERRY? What the heck is NEWBERRY? And this guy was initially at Tennessee and had some sort of academic problems? Is this guy a workout warrior or is he for real?

And is Cody Wallace a possibility at center? He tested pretty good (4 top 5's) even though the book on him says he's not mobile.

I've been talking about Benedict. He was on my first big board this year as well as being in my first proposed mock draft. Newberry had him playing at OT, but I and many others feel he is better suited for OG in the NFL. Same with Brandon Alberts. Benedict is a top 3 or 4 OG at least IMO.

badboy
02-25-2008, 12:31 PM
I want to give props to John Harris who does college evals for 1560 The Game on a. m. radio in Houston. I have interacted with John for a couple years and listen to his input on 610 radio before he took a role with the new sport talk station. He is a very knowledgeable dude that you can talk to. He will fit in well with John and Lance on the new station and does respond to his emails.

LZ
02-26-2008, 01:32 PM
It brings up the question: which of our linemen aren't going to be able to make it under Gibbs? Are bigger guys like Studdard and Spencer going to be out? After this performance in the combine, how late is Zuttah going to be available?

The guy that made me go "who? what? where?" was Heath Benedict. I don't follow college ball so I don't know all these guys like a lot of the posters here but NEWBERRY? What the heck is NEWBERRY? And this guy was initially at Tennessee and had some sort of academic problems? Is this guy a workout warrior or is he for real?

And is Cody Wallace a possibility at center? He tested pretty good (4 top 5's) even though the book on him says he's not mobile.

I don't think Zuttah's stock is going to rise more than a round at most. What you see is what you get with him and he's still going to be a later round pick, but he's the type of guy who Gibbs would probably want the Texans to look at. As for Benedict he's a good athlete and pretty solid but I think some here on the message boards are going a little overboard when talking about him. Wallace will have to play center, but he still needs to get stronger and he needs to play with a better pad level. He was WAY too high at the SR. Bowl and guys were getting under him and pushing him around all week.

Jeff Otah's stock is moving on up while some teams are moving Chris Williams down because of those short arms. I still dont' think Williams gets past the likes of Denver, Chicago and Arizona and makes it all the way to 18.

LZ
02-26-2008, 01:34 PM
I want to give props to John Harris who does college evals for 1560 The Game on a. m. radio in Houston. I have interacted with John for a couple years and listen to his input on 610 radio before he took a role with the new sport talk station. He is a very knowledgeable dude that you can talk to. He will fit in well with John and Lance on the new station and does respond to his emails.


During football season, Sean and John talk a TON of college football. He and were kicking around zone blocking and which of the backs we like best in this draft for this system while we were in the office today. Very few people here in Houston know the schemes or the college players like Harris. He literally watches 2 to 3 games each day just to make his own evaluations of players.

HOU-TEX
02-26-2008, 01:42 PM
I don't think Zuttah's stock is going to rise more than a round at most. What you see is what you get with him and he's still going to be a later round pick, but he's the type of guy who Gibbs would probably want the Texans to look at. As for Benedict he's a good athlete and pretty solid but I think some here on the message boards are going a little overboard when talking about him. Wallace will have to play center, but he still needs to get stronger and he needs to play with a better pad level. He was WAY too high at the SR. Bowl and guys were getting under him and pushing him around all week.

Jeff Otah's stock is moving on up while some teams are moving Chris Williams down because of those short arms. I still dont' think Williams gets past the likes of Denver, Chicago and Arizona and makes it all the way to 18.

If I remember correctly, he didn't lift very well either. I still think he'll be snatched up fairly quick too. :cool:

TexansSeminole
02-26-2008, 01:44 PM
If I remember correctly, he didn't lift very well either. I still think he'll be snatched up fairly quick too. :cool:

21 reps.

nero THE zero
02-26-2008, 01:47 PM
LZ, could y'all podcast the draft shows for those of us who can't be around a radio on Thursday nights?

HOU-TEX
02-26-2008, 01:53 PM
21 reps.

He could've just had a bad lift, but 6'6" 315+ lbs should be pumping out at least low to mid-thirty reps. Especially with shorter arms.

Lucky
02-26-2008, 01:56 PM
Especially with shorter arms.
Just how short did his arms measure?

Errant Hothy
02-26-2008, 01:56 PM
He could've just had a bad lift, but 6'6" 315+ lbs should be pumping out at least low to mid-thirty reps. Especially with shorter arms.

Only three guys pushed out "mid-30" reps:

Long, Jake 37
Zuttah, Jeremy 35
Barton, Kirk 34

Three more guys did 31, and two more did 30.

Anything 30+ is exceptional for an OL, not the norm.

Errant Hothy
02-26-2008, 01:59 PM
NM, crappy source material.

Will try again soon.

Take 2:

William's arms ar 32 7/8, which makes them 3/8" shorter then Joe Thomas'. I don't think his arms will be a big issue to any team.

HOU-TEX
02-26-2008, 02:17 PM
NM, crappy source material.

Will try again soon.

Take 2:

William's arms ar 32 7/8, which makes them 3/8" shorter then Joe Thomas'. I don't think his arms will be a big issue to any team.

Look, I stated he's still likely to go in round one, but you can't spin 21 reps for an Olineman into being a good thing. The DB's averaged around 20 reps

:texflag:

Errant Hothy
02-26-2008, 02:31 PM
Look, I stated he's still likely to go in round one, but you can't spin 21 reps for an Olineman into being a good thing. The DB's averaged around 20 reps

:texflag:

First off the DBs did NOT average 20 reps. If you take the top six DBs and average their lifts you get 20 1/3, once you start adding in all the guys who lifted 16 times and less that number starts to nosedive.

Secondly, I don't disagree that 21 reps is below average for a potential LT, but I do disagree that his arm lenght is going to be a concern. The reps will be more of a conerns then his wingspan. Williams will definitly need to lift better at his pro-day.

The Pencil Neck
02-26-2008, 02:36 PM
Only three guys pushed out "mid-30" reps:

Long, Jake 37
Zuttah, Jeremy 35
Barton, Kirk 34

Three more guys did 31, and two more did 30.

Anything 30+ is exceptional for an OL, not the norm.

Still, if the guy's got short arms, he has a mechanical advantage for the bench. Only getting 21 should be a bit of a warning flag. He should be at least into the mid-20's.

I really wish they used the incline bench instead of the flat bench. Inclines have more of a strength carryover to the actions that players perform.

HOU-TEX
02-26-2008, 02:37 PM
First off the DBs did NOT average 20 reps. If you take the top six DBs and average their lifts you get 20 1/3, once you start adding in all the guys who lifted 16 times and less that number starts to nosedive.

Secondly, I don't disagree that 21 reps is below average for a potential LT, but I do disagree that his arm lenght is going to be a concern. The reps will be more of a conerns then his wingspan. Williams will definitly need to lift better at his pro-day.

I agree with what you're saying about arm legth concerns. I mentioned the short arms because if anything, it should help his bench reps. I don't think I mentioned anything about how short arms effect an Olineman on the field.

From what I gather, we're on the same page here.:cool:

He could've just had a bad lift, but 6'6" 315+ lbs should be pumping out at least low to mid-thirty reps. Especially with shorter arms.

BTW, I was only looking at the top ten DB's when doing my comparision

beerlover
02-26-2008, 02:43 PM
Chris Willimas looked great in OL drills, quick feet, kept his hands up & his butt down all good for ZBS :cool:

Having said that a guy like Mario Williams would throw him around like a rag doll :specnatz:

badboy
02-26-2008, 02:44 PM
As long as he can flex "pythons" when he pan cakes a DE, I will be ok with him.

LZ
02-26-2008, 06:43 PM
If I remember correctly, he didn't lift very well either. I still think he'll be snatched up fairly quick too. :cool:

His had 21 reps. You would like for it to be higher, but I can tell you for a fact that fans make WAY too big of a deal about numbers like that for LTs. There is football strength and then there is muscle endurance that helps you lift longer. As long as a LT doesn't get pushed around on tape and as long as he has a strong core, then teams don't mind LTs who lift 20 to 24 reps. For a guard, on the other hand, that can be a problem since they play against power players. LTs get matched up against player who are usually 250 to 285 pounds so their rep numbers aren't as important as their quick feet.

LZ
02-26-2008, 06:45 PM
NM, crappy source material.

Will try again soon.

Take 2:

William's arms ar 32 7/8, which makes them 3/8" shorter then Joe Thomas'. I don't think his arms will be a big issue to any team.

I can tell you for a fact that short arms ARE a factor in draft posiitioning for some teams. Eric Winston fell to the 3rd round in part because some teams were scared off of his arm length and felt like he would have to be a RT instead the LT position he played in college.

TexansSeminole
02-26-2008, 06:57 PM
First off the DBs did NOT average 20 reps. If you take the top six DBs and average their lifts you get 20 1/3, once you start adding in all the guys who lifted 16 times and less that number starts to nosedive.

Secondly, I don't disagree that 21 reps is below average for a potential LT, but I do disagree that his arm lenght is going to be a concern. The reps will be more of a conerns then his wingspan. Williams will definitly need to lift better at his pro-day.

The running backs that lifted averaged roughly 20-21 reps. Not counting fullbacks, who all lifted above 20.

Hardcore Texan
02-26-2008, 09:23 PM
I can tell you for a fact that short arms ARE a factor in draft posiitioning for some teams. Eric Winston fell to the 3rd round in part because some teams were scared off of his arm length and felt like he would have to be a RT instead the LT position he played in college.

Cool to have you on the MB LZ. RT is all Winston has played for the Texans, IIRC, I am glad he fell to the 3rd. And I think he will come into his own this year at that position.

Errant Hothy
02-27-2008, 08:34 AM
I can tell you for a fact that short arms ARE a factor in draft posiitioning for some teams. Eric Winston fell to the 3rd round in part because some teams were scared off of his arm length and felt like he would have to be a RT instead the LT position he played in college.

I don't deny that but the question is, how short is to short?

According to this as a source:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Anbi8tpjKhHP1fJaghPq80NDubYF?slug=jm-prosconstackles041807&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Joe Thomas has an arm lenght of 32 1/2. And yes I've had trouble findin more then one source that states the same arm length for Joe Thomas.

From the combine we know that Chiris Williams has an arm length of 32 7/8.

And our beloved T-Rex, Eric Winston, has an arm length of 32 1/4.

Are we really to believe that the 1/4" difference between Thomas and Winston determines were they play? Or is it more a function of overall strength, hips and foot work, the ability to generate leverage and overal short distance speed and burst?

LZ
02-27-2008, 05:30 PM
I don't deny that but the question is, how short is to short?

According to this as a source:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Anbi8tpjKhHP1fJaghPq80NDubYF?slug=jm-prosconstackles041807&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Joe Thomas has an arm lenght of 32 1/2. And yes I've had trouble findin more then one source that states the same arm length for Joe Thomas.

From the combine we know that Chiris Williams has an arm length of 32 7/8.

And our beloved T-Rex, Eric Winston, has an arm length of 32 1/4.

Are we really to believe that the 1/4" difference between Thomas and Winston determines were they play? Or is it more a function of overall strength, hips and foot work, the ability to generate leverage and overal short distance speed and burst?


I'm checking up on it, but Thomas' arm lenght was longer than 32.5. I'm almost positive of that. However, he certainly didn't have long arms, that is for sure. Once a defender gets his hands on you, you are in trouble which is why arm lenght is a concern for NFL coaches when it comes to tackles and really all linemen.

Kaiser Toro
02-27-2008, 08:17 PM
I'm checking up on it, but Thomas' arm lenght was longer than 32.5. I'm almost positive of that. However, he certainly didn't have long arms, that is for sure. Once a defender gets his hands on you, you are in trouble which is why arm lenght is a concern for NFL coaches when it comes to tackles and really all linemen.

I am confused on this and most likely it is due to my analytical side and being a former basketball coach teaching how to create space on the perimeter and how to leverage contact in the low post.

It would seem to me, and please correct if I am wrong, that once someone as their hands on you (the defense) it then becomes all about leverage, as it is all in your lower strength and balance.

I would think that long arms are beneficial as an offensive measure in taking the battle of attrition to the other side (defense) perhaps by punching the speed rush to the outside. I just cannot see them being beneficial once you are engaged.

I would like to be schooled on this by any member on this situation LZ presents.

Honoring Earl 34
02-27-2008, 08:29 PM
I would think arm length increases the distance a DE has to travel to get to the QB .

Kaiser Toro
02-27-2008, 09:04 PM
I would think arm length increases the distance a DE has to travel to get to the QB .

I understand and trust that I versed that in my post. My post was based on the point of engagement.

Fox
02-27-2008, 10:53 PM
I am confused on this and most likely it is due to my analytical side and being a former basketball coach teaching how to create space on the perimeter and how to leverage contact in the low post.

It would seem to me, and please correct if I am wrong, that once someone as their hands on you (the defense) it then becomes all about leverage, as it is all in your lower strength and balance.

I would think that long arms are beneficial as an offensive measure in taking the battle of attrition to the other side (defense) perhaps by punching the speed rush to the outside. I just cannot see them being beneficial once you are engaged.

I would like to be schooled on this by any member on this situation LZ presents.

I get a different interpretation of what LZ said.

"However, he certainly didn't have long arms, that is for sure. Once a defender gets his hands on you, you are in trouble which is why arm lenght is a concern for NFL coaches when it comes to tackles and really all linemen."

It sounds like you interpreted that as saying once the defender gets his hands on you you need longer arms to win that battle or you're toast. I interpret that as saying you need long arms so you can hold the defender at a greater distance, otherwise he will get his hands on you and you're toast.

In other words, I agree that long arms don't seem like they'd be much of an advantage once you've let the defender get up in your grill, but I don't think that was his point. I think longer arms let you pop the defender and hold him back without letting him get close enough to really engage you.

texasguy346
02-27-2008, 11:13 PM
I get a different interpretation of what LZ said.

"However, he certainly didn't have long arms, that is for sure. Once a defender gets his hands on you, you are in trouble which is why arm lenght is a concern for NFL coaches when it comes to tackles and really all linemen."

It sounds like you interpreted that as saying once the defender gets his hands on you you need longer arms to win that battle or you're toast. I interpret that as saying you need long arms so you can hold the defender at a greater distance, otherwise he will get his hands on you and you're toast.

In other words, I agree that long arms don't seem like they'd be much of an advantage once you've let the defender get up in your grill, but I don't think that was his point. I think longer arms let you pop the defender and hold him back without letting him get close enough to really engage you.

That's what I got from his post as well.

Kaiser Toro
02-27-2008, 11:15 PM
I get a different interpretation of what LZ said.

"However, he certainly didn't have long arms, that is for sure. Once a defender gets his hands on you, you are in trouble which is why arm lenght is a concern for NFL coaches when it comes to tackles and really all linemen."

It sounds like you interpreted that as saying once the defender gets his hands on you you need longer arms to win that battle or you're toast. I interpret that as saying you need long arms so you can hold the defender at a greater distance, otherwise he will get his hands on you and you're toast.

In other words, I agree that long arms don't seem like they'd be much of an advantage once you've let the defender get up in your grill, but I don't think that was his point. I think longer arms let you pop the defender and hold him back without letting him get close enough to really engage you.

That is logical and is in line with my thinking. He just versed it a funny way.

badboy
02-28-2008, 08:42 AM
For me, I am more interested in a guy with a solid strong base, quick feet and knows how to slide and has good upper body strength. I have seen DEs blow around our guys and all you can do with your long arms then is to hold on and pray your QB does not get killed. I want a guy that can slide outside with the DE.

HOU-TEX
02-28-2008, 09:10 AM
For me, I am more interested in a guy with a solid strong base, quick feet and knows how to slide and has good upper body strength. I have seen DEs blow around our guys and all you can do with your long arms then is to hold on and pray your QB does not get killed. I want a guy that can slide outside with the DE.

More times than not, once the DE has won the hand battle he can manipulate the direction he wants to move you in order to get to the QB. Once he has his hands under the T pads, he now has the leverage advantage.

I'm not sure I'm typing what I really want to say. I feel like I'm stoned. I need more coffee....:pirate:

badboy
02-28-2008, 09:41 AM
More times than not, once the DE has won the hand battle he can manipulate the direction he wants to move you in order to get to the QB. Once he has his hands under the T pads, he now has the leverage advantage.

I'm not sure I'm typing what I really want to say. I feel like I'm stoned. I need more coffee....:pirate:How many times has our LT da jour chased the DE to the QB? Think of all the LTs we've flung into that quicksand hole and most can't go to the left. We need a LT with the feet of a short stop. Yes, if our guy gets his hands under the pads... thats why I gave my criteria. Too often, our LT is using his hands to brush off the QB as he gets up spitting dirt or commiting a hold.

nunusguy
02-28-2008, 10:38 AM
In other words, I agree that long arms don't seem like they'd be much of an advantage once you've let the defender get up in your grill, but I don't think that was his point. I think longer arms let you pop the defender and hold him back without letting him get close enough to really engage you.
Great analysis Fox ! That seems logical.
OK, so why is this physical attribute of arm length more important for LTs than RTs. I think I know, but I'd like to have my theory confirmed by someone like yourself who apparently knows for sure ?
BTW, I'd echo the request of the guy who said he'd really like to have Lances
Thursday night Draft sessiosn also put on podcast format.

Ole Miss Texan
02-28-2008, 10:51 AM
Great analysis Fox ! That seems logical.
OK, so why is this physical attribute of arm length more important for LTs than RTs. I think I know, but I'd like to have my theory confirmed by someone like yourself who apparently knows for sure ?
BTW, I'd echo the request of the guy who said he'd really like to have Lances
Thursday night Draft sessiosn also put on podcast format.

Long arms are especially important for the Tackle protecting the QB blindside (in most cases it's the Left Tackle). If there is a DE coming around the edge of the RT, a right handed QB can see this a lot easier and avoid the rush by stepping up or protecting the football from an arm slap. The QB has a much harder time seeing the edge rusher from behind him (blindside/left side). In this situation it's important for the LT to have Long arms the push the DE farther away from the QB or essentially making the the DE do a larg arc around the LT to get to the QB. In most cases the QB will take his 3 step drop and get rid of the ball- having a few extra split seconds that the LT is forcing the DE to take maybe 2 more steps (instead of a straighter line to the QB) is very important in protecting against QB Sacks, Hurries, or Fumbles as the DE slaps the QB's arm as it's going back.

That's my theory at least- but as mentioned arm length alone isn't going to get it done.

There was a great episode on The Discovery Channel (it was like myth busters but not sure if that's the show)- and they do a technical analysis of real NFL DE's rushing the QB. The have the blocking dummy (LT) in different spots (only inches apart from the original spot) to demonstrate a left tackle forcing the DE to move 6inches farther away from the QB. In most cases just that small amount of time allowed the QB to get rid of the ball. They also compared I think it was Roethlisberger and Culpeppers throwing motions and the effect of what a quick release vs. a long wind up throw would do- in allowing the DE to get to the QB. I'll try and find a link to the video it was VERY VERY interesting.

badboy
02-28-2008, 12:48 PM
Long arms are especially important for the Tackle protecting the QB blindside (in most cases it's the Left Tackle). If there is a DE coming around the edge of the RT, a right handed QB can see this a lot easier and avoid the rush by stepping up or protecting the football from an arm slap. The QB has a much harder time seeing the edge rusher from behind him (blindside/left side). In this situation it's important for the LT to have Long arms the push the DE farther away from the QB or essentially making the the DE do a larg arc around the LT to get to the QB. In most cases the QB will take his 3 step drop and get rid of the ball- having a few extra split seconds that the LT is forcing the DE to take maybe 2 more steps (instead of a straighter line to the QB) is very important in protecting against QB Sacks, Hurries, or Fumbles as the DE slaps the QB's arm as it's going back.

That's my theory at least- but as mentioned arm length alone isn't going to get it done.

There was a great episode on The Discovery Channel (it was like myth busters but not sure if that's the show)- and they do a technical analysis of real NFL DE's rushing the QB. The have the blocking dummy (LT) in different spots (only inches apart from the original spot) to demonstrate a left tackle forcing the DE to move 6inches farther away from the QB. In most cases just that small amount of time allowed the QB to get rid of the ball. They also compared I think it was Roethlisberger and Culpeppers throwing motions and the effect of what a quick release vs. a long wind up throw would do- in allowing the DE to get to the QB. I'll try and find a link to the video it was VERY VERY interesting.6 inches makes a huge difference and that should be taken care of by one step by the LT, yet our guys have had a hard time doing that. One of the reasons I was so high on Charles Spencer in TC as the guy was huge, strong and pretty good feet. Hopefully Gibbs will fix this problem for us. Salaam has held up pretty good considering.

The Pencil Neck
02-28-2008, 02:20 PM
There was a great episode on The Discovery Channel (it was like myth busters but not sure if that's the show)- and they do a technical analysis of real NFL DE's rushing the QB. The have the blocking dummy (LT) in different spots (only inches apart from the original spot) to demonstrate a left tackle forcing the DE to move 6inches farther away from the QB. In most cases just that small amount of time allowed the QB to get rid of the ball. They also compared I think it was Roethlisberger and Culpeppers throwing motions and the effect of what a quick release vs. a long wind up throw would do- in allowing the DE to get to the QB. I'll try and find a link to the video it was VERY VERY interesting.

I think that show was called Sport Science or something like that. Very interesting.

LZ
02-28-2008, 03:32 PM
I am confused on this and most likely it is due to my analytical side and being a former basketball coach teaching how to create space on the perimeter and how to leverage contact in the low post.

It would seem to me, and please correct if I am wrong, that once someone as their hands on you (the defense) it then becomes all about leverage, as it is all in your lower strength and balance.

I would think that long arms are beneficial as an offensive measure in taking the battle of attrition to the other side (defense) perhaps by punching the speed rush to the outside. I just cannot see them being beneficial once you are engaged.

I would like to be schooled on this by any member on this situation LZ presents.


Well basically you are right. However, if a defensive end (or any player) gets his hands positioned on you first, it puts him in a position of strength and he can "steer" the linemen in the direction he wants - at least in theory. If I were to come up with a parallel in basketball it might be with blocking out. You want to get your butt in your defenders lap as quickly as possibly so he can't create space as he attempts to go for the offensive rebound. The quicker you shut down that attempt to create space, the harder it will be to get to the object of his desire - the rebound (the QB).

LZ
02-28-2008, 03:33 PM
For me, I am more interested in a guy with a solid strong base, quick feet and knows how to slide and has good upper body strength. I have seen DEs blow around our guys and all you can do with your long arms then is to hold on and pray your QB does not get killed. I want a guy that can slide outside with the DE.


Obviously the arms are just one part of the equation. Feet are more important than arm length, but teams take strenght, intelligence, arm length and feet all into consideration.

badboy
02-28-2008, 03:37 PM
Obviously the arms are just one part of the equation. Feet are more important than arm length, but teams take strenght, intelligence, arm length and feet all into consideration.Lance any info on the terms of Andre Davis new deal?

LZ
02-28-2008, 03:38 PM
- We look at who helped and hurt themselves at the combine.

- We talk about cap casualties and which free agents could be on the Texans radar starting tonight.

- We talk about WRs in this year's draft.

- We speak with Houston-based sports agent Jeff Nalley about the draft and free agent process.

Next week we will start doing the show live and will be taking calls. If you want to hear a clip from tonight's show (It goes every Thursday from 6 to 7 PM on 1560thegame.com (1560 AM), then go to my blog on the Chronicle.

Second Honeymoon
02-28-2008, 03:43 PM
- We look at who helped and hurt themselves at the combine.

- We talk about cap casualties and which free agents could be on the Texans radar starting tonight.

- We talk about WRs in this year's draft.

- We speak with Houston-based sports agent Jeff Nalley about the draft and free agent process.

Next week we will start doing the show live and will be taking calls. If you want to hear a clip from tonight's show (It goes every Thursday from 6 to 7 PM on 1560thegame.com (1560 AM), then go to my blog on the Chronicle.

LZ FTW

Hutch13
02-28-2008, 03:52 PM
- We look at who helped and hurt themselves at the combine.

- We talk about cap casualties and which free agents could be on the Texans radar starting tonight.

- We talk about WRs in this year's draft.

- We speak with Houston-based sports agent Jeff Nalley about the draft and free agent process.

Next week we will start doing the show live and will be taking calls. If you want to hear a clip from tonight's show (It goes every Thursday from 6 to 7 PM on 1560thegame.com (1560 AM), then go to my blog on the Chronicle.

Sweet, you can count me in on listening! :thumbup:

Just out of curosity, what athletes does Jeff Nalley represent?

Errant Hothy
02-28-2008, 03:58 PM
:thumbup

Sweet, you can count me in on listening! :thumbup:

Just out of curosity, what athletes does Jeff Nalley represent?

Here's there web-site:
http://selectsportsgroup.com/main.shtml

LZ
02-28-2008, 04:05 PM
Lance any info on the terms of Andre Davis new deal?


Not yet. It hasn't been officially reported to the NFLPA so there is no way to find out yet.

Errant Hothy
02-28-2008, 04:07 PM
Lance, you ever get an offical measurement on J. Thomas' arm length?

LZ
02-28-2008, 04:09 PM
Sweet, you can count me in on listening! :thumbup:

Just out of curosity, what athletes does Jeff Nalley represent?


They have guys like Welker, Derrick Johnson, Ben Leber, Adam Carriker, Kevin Kolb, Charles Tillman and many others but in this year's crop they have:

David Roach, FS, TCU
Donnie Avery, WR, UH
Chase Ortiz, DE, TCU
Zach Bowman, CB, Nebraska
Jordy Nelson, WR, Kansas State
Alvin Bowen, LB, Iowa State
Marcus Walker, CB, Oklahoma
Chris Harrington, DE, Texas A&M

LZ
02-28-2008, 04:44 PM
Lance, you ever get an offical measurement on J. Thomas' arm length?

No. I'm trying to see if I can get my dad to dig it up but for some reason it isn't on the top of his priority list at the moment. I'll get someone to find it.

TEXANS84
02-28-2008, 04:48 PM
Lance-

Anyone come up with anything further on the TCU DE that had a "mysterious leave of absence" during his senior season? I know the kid has a high motor, but I'm sure his interviews at the combine were focused on that.

Mr. White
02-28-2008, 04:53 PM
LZ-

Could you ask SEC Guy where he thinks that Glenn Dorsey will get drafted?

With all due respect to your dad....I just don't trust anyone else's analysis.

LZ
02-28-2008, 05:04 PM
Lance-

Anyone come up with anything further on the TCU DE that had a "mysterious leave of absence" during his senior season? I know the kid has a high motor, but I'm sure his interviews at the combine were focused on that.


Tommy Blake is the DE and I'm almost positive he won't be drafted. He has a severe public anxiety disorder and I believe I read he was bi-polar as well. He is weighing in the 280s right now and that his 30 pounds over his playing weight. He easily had first round talent entering the season but he started acting strange before the season and had one famous episode in front of scouts who were there to see him practice before the season started. I just think his baggage makes him almost undraftable.

LZ
02-28-2008, 05:09 PM
LZ-

Could you ask SEC Guy where he thinks that Glenn Dorsey will get drafted?

With all due respect to your dad....I just don't trust anyone else's analysis.


SEC Guy's Top 10 Draft Prospects

1. Chris Long
2. Glenn Dorsey
3. Darren McFadden
4. Quentin Groves
5. Jacob Hester
6. Matt Ryan
7. Marcus Howard
8. D.J. Hall
9. Brian Brohm
10. Jordy Nelson

Fox
02-28-2008, 08:51 PM
Great analysis Fox ! That seems logical.
OK, so why is this physical attribute of arm length more important for LTs than RTs. I think I know, but I'd like to have my theory confirmed by someone like yourself who apparently knows for sure ?
BTW, I'd echo the request of the guy who said he'd really like to have Lances
Thursday night Draft sessiosn also put on podcast format.

Unfortunately I'm not much of an expert either, but I agree with much of what Ole Miss said. Since most teams have right handed QB's, the best pass rushers line up at RE so they can attack from the blind side, leaving the QB clueless to his impending meeting with the turf. Longer arms allow you to better keep the rusher at bay or force him to take a longer arcing approach that causes them to overshoot the QB and temporarily take them out of the play. I can't think of a reason why it'd be a bad thing to have longer arms as a RT, but it seems you'd want to have the guys who do have that advantage paired up against the D's best pass rushing threat.

TexansFanatic
02-28-2008, 09:26 PM
Lance any info on the terms of Andre Davis new deal?

I found this:
Texans re-signed WR Andre Davis to a four-year, $16 million contract. NFL Network's Adam Schefter reports the deal contains $8 million guaranteed.

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/Houston_Texans_resigned_Andre_Davis/172788

badboy
02-29-2008, 10:55 AM
I found this:
Texans re-signed WR Andre Davis to a four-year, $16 million contract. NFL Network's Adam Schefter reports the deal contains $8 million guaranteed.

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/Houston_Texans_resigned_Andre_Davis/172788Thanks, I had not been able to pin down the guarantee. Kind of steep but I am ok with it cause I think he will be a player and it sends a message to others that they will be taken care of if they step up.

beerlover
02-29-2008, 03:26 PM
excellent show. really enjoyed/agreed with post combine analysis :cool:

LZ
03-01-2008, 04:14 PM
Thanks, Beerlover.

Specnatz
03-02-2008, 01:23 AM
Tommy Blake is the DE and I'm almost positive he won't be drafted. He has a severe public anxiety disorder and I believe I read he was bi-polar as well. He is weighing in the 280s right now and that his 30 pounds over his playing weight. He easily had first round talent entering the season but he started acting strange before the season and had one famous episode in front of scouts who were there to see him practice before the season started. I just think his baggage makes him almost undraftable.

My ex has delt with this a lot (ok one of the ex's) it is not something that you snap yor fingers at and you are cured. Maybe a 7th round or FA contract so you have rights to him might be possible Teams always are willing to take a chance on things like this because you never know. This last sentece is said because of experience.

I do not envy Blake because I know how hard it is on him. He does not want to feel this way it is just at times he has no choice.

stiff
03-02-2008, 11:10 AM
SEC Guy's Top 10 Draft Prospects

1. Chris Long
2. Glenn Dorsey
3. Darren McFadden
4. Quentin Groves
5. Jacob Hester
6. Matt Ryan
7. Marcus Howard
8. D.J. Hall
9. Brian Brohm
10. Jordy Nelson

Lance is SEC guy feeling alright it looks like there are a few too many non SEC players in his top 10?

BTW great draft show. This off season is going to be much more bearable with The Game.

LZ
03-03-2008, 08:51 AM
Lance is SEC guy feeling alright it looks like there are a few too many non SEC players in his top 10?

BTW great draft show. This off season is going to be much more bearable with The Game.


SEC Guy is comfortable with the non-SEC guys on the list.

beerlover
03-03-2008, 09:00 AM
SEC Guy's Top 10 Draft Prospects

1. Chris Long
2. Glenn Dorsey
3. Darren McFadden
4. Quentin Groves
5. Jacob Hester
6. Matt Ryan
7. Marcus Howard
8. D.J. Hall
9. Brian Brohm
10. Jordy Nelson

Quentin Groves really helped his stock @ the combine. burner off the edge. where is he projected to be drafted?

would love Hester in the 4th for the Texans. consider Jordy in 3rd.

Errant Hothy
03-03-2008, 02:46 PM
Lance, are there any CBs in this class who could make the transition to FS?

swtbound07
03-03-2008, 02:51 PM
Lance, how do you feel about Kenny Phillips at 18? Thanks in advance, i realize you answer a lot of questions.

badboy
03-03-2008, 03:47 PM
Lance, are there any CBs in this class who could make the transition to FS?I'm looking at CB Darnell Terell a big guy with good speed for FS in 5th. LZ your opinion would be appreciated.

LZ
03-03-2008, 06:35 PM
Quentin Groves really helped his stock @ the combine. burner off the edge. where is he projected to be drafted?

would love Hester in the 4th for the Texans. consider Jordy in 3rd.


Late first to mid 2nd to a 3-4 team. I think it is a mistake for 4-3 teams not to consider him as a Sam LB who can drop down to DE on pass rushing situations.

LZ
03-03-2008, 06:49 PM
Lance, are there any CBs in this class who could make the transition to FS?


I've heard conflicting reporst on Godfrey from Iowa. One scouts swears he is too stiff and doesn't have the instincts to play FS. A position coach believes his instincts are good enough and that he could swing to FS if needed.

The first thing you have to look at is whether or not a guy can tackle. Nowadays most teams are playing their safeties as hybrids between strong and free so they want both safeties to be able to tackle. A few teams will play their FS deep so in those schemes coverage skills, and more importantly instincts, are more important.

A few guys who could swing are:

Reggie Smith - OU : Lacks the type of instincts you want, but he might be another Eugene Wilson.

Terrell Thomas - USC: Good hitter but lacks quickness to play exclusively "centerfield".

Dwight Lowerey - SJ State: You could see he has good ball skils when he was here at the Shrine Game practices. He's not a great athlete so FS might be a better fit.

Chevis Jackson - LSU: His time 40 time puts him in this category because he does everything pretty well except run. Would probably make a solid FS.

LZ
03-03-2008, 06:51 PM
Lance, how do you feel about Kenny Phillips at 18? Thanks in advance, i realize you answer a lot of questions.

He's just not a special safety and he's more of a box safety than a free safety so I don't really like that pick for the Texans. Would he be an upgrade? Yes. Is he worth the 18th pick? I can't find very many people who think so.

LZ
03-03-2008, 06:57 PM
I'm looking at CB Darnell Terell a big guy with good speed for FS in 5th. LZ your opinion would be appreciated.


I'll be honest on this. Unless you get coaching film from the endzone or from the press box, it is very difficult to see what you need to see to create your own, informed opinion on a DB. I watched Missouri 6 times this year but it is hard to get what you need from those games even when you tape them. I sent a text about Terell to a scout from that region and he thinks he's probably a better fit as a Cover 2 CB. He doesn't think he has the instincts or ball skills to play safety. "Just doesn't make any plays despite his speed".

LZ
03-03-2008, 06:58 PM
Last week's Z Report Draft Show is being podcast on my blog at:

http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2008/03/post_45.html#comments

TexansSeminole
03-03-2008, 07:06 PM
Since we seem to be on DBs, how do you feel about Brandon Flowers?

I feel as if he is being overhyped. I actually like Flowers, and enjoyed watching him this year and years prior, but I just don't see him being a round 1 guy.

How do you feel about the player, and his draft status?

LZ
03-04-2008, 01:22 PM
Since we seem to be on DBs, how do you feel about Brandon Flowers?

I feel as if he is being overhyped. I actually like Flowers, and enjoyed watching him this year and years prior, but I just don't see him being a round 1 guy.

How do you feel about the player, and his draft status?


Some guys play to their speed and some guys don't. I think he plays faster than a 4.58 on the field and he's a good tackler/hitter with good cover skills. I know there are teams who are very high on him. You still need to draft players according to your value on him and as a mid to high 4.5 guy he is going to go in the 2nd more than likely but as an overall CB I think he is less risky than DRC. He may not have as high a ceiling but his floor might be higher.

Mr. White
03-04-2008, 01:36 PM
A little off-topic here...

Did you guys get a chance to hear Dikembe Mutombo on Steve Tang's show yesterday?

He was probably told that he'd be on John and Chaz's show.

Ole Miss Texan
03-04-2008, 01:41 PM
Lance, I'd love to get in a few questions while we're on CB's:

1. Does the signing of Reeves have any effect on us NOT taking a CB in the 1st round? (especially if it's at or close to BPA)

2. What exactly is the scheme we're trying to implement in the secondary? I've heard zone, but then I heard Reeves played zone in dallas and is better on the WR? I think this question really leads into the next one.

3. What CB's in the draft would be good fits for the scheme we're running? Example: No use selecting a cover-2 guy if we're playing strictly man up.

4. There has been little to no talk about Antoine Cason, CB from Arizona. I just simply don't see how he's being viewed as a late 2nd rounder now. I'd love to know what you think of him and what the talk about this guy is in some of the circles, especially as it relates to the Texans.

Thank you very much! :)

Chance_C
03-04-2008, 01:45 PM
You still need to draft players according to your value on him and as a mid to high 4.5 guy he is going to go in the 2nd more than likely but as an overall CB I think he is less risky than DRC.

Which is the reason why I'm scared to take him with the 18th pick. DRC that is. Not that I'm against it, but I think it's a bigger risk higher reward type pick. On the other hand, if we continue to add to our secondary via FA, then maybe we could take DRC, and groom him for that role in a nickel situation. Assuming he doesn't when the job outright that is. Wow, what a luxury that would be.

beerlover
03-04-2008, 01:51 PM
Which is the reason why I'm scared to take him with the 18th pick. DRC that is. Not that I'm against it, but I think it's a bigger risk higher reward type pick. On the other hand, if we continue to add to our secondary via FA, then maybe we could take DRC, and groom him for that role in a nickel situation. Assuming he doesn't when the job outright that is. Wow, what a luxury that would be.

we all do this, no knock on you I think its a smart evaluation (talking self into the exact opposite as when you started the post). the best way the Texans improve is through better coaching, evaulation of talent & drafting the best players available for the system they want to employ. :cool:

badboy
03-04-2008, 02:23 PM
Lance, I'd love to get in a few questions while we're on CB's:

1. Does the signing of Reeves have any effect on us NOT taking a CB in the 1st round? (especially if it's at or close to BPA)

2. What exactly is the scheme we're trying to implement in the secondary? I've heard zone, but then I heard Reeves played zone in dallas and is better on the WR? I think this question really leads into the next one.

3. What CB's in the draft would be good fits for the scheme we're running? Example: No use selecting a cover-2 guy if we're playing strictly man up.

4. There has been little to no talk about Antoine Cason, CB from Arizona. I just simply don't see how he's being viewed as a late 2nd rounder now. I'd love to know what you think of him and what the talk about this guy is in some of the circles, especially as it relates to the Texans.

Thank you very much! :)Good questions OMT. Is Reeves good enough to not draft a CB or is that too risky?

Chance_C
03-04-2008, 02:27 PM
we all do this, no knock on you I think its a smart evaluation (talking self into the exact opposite as when you started the post). the best way the Texans improve is through better coaching, evaulation of talent & drafting the best players available for the system they want to employ.

Yeah, I know. I do it all the time. I'm just always so undecided come draft time, that I'm subject to go whichever way the winds blowing...:thinking: But do you see my point? I think (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that DRC is more of a project...no let's say it this way.....maybe DRC is not as NFL ready as say Talib, or Flowers, or Cason, or McKelvin or whoever. We need the most NFL ready CB at the 18th IMO.

Disclaimer:
My opinion could change drastically.....based on FA, and the wind...:cool:

badboy
03-04-2008, 02:47 PM
Yeah, I know. I do it all the time. I'm just always so undecided come draft time, that I'm subject to go whichever way the winds blowing...:thinking: But do you see my point? I think (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that DRC is more of a project...no let's say it this way.....maybe DRC is not as NFL ready as say Talib, or Flowers, or Cason, or McKelvin or whoever. We need the most NFL ready CB at the 18th IMO.

Disclaimer:
My opinion could change drastically.....based on FA, and the wind...:cool:Would Reeves have signed if he thought Houston would go CB in first?

Chance_C
03-04-2008, 03:08 PM
Would Reeves have signed if he thought Houston would go CB in first?


Yeah, I think so. He has a chance to compete for a starting spot. I hope he has enough confidence in himself that he would have signed, even at the risk of competing against a rookie. We are weak at CB, he knows that. He got pretty good money to come here (don't know if Dallas offered him anything or not). Plus we are becoming a more attractive destination for people. Lots of reasons to want to come here IMO.

Specnatz
03-04-2008, 03:25 PM
Would Reeves have signed if he thought Houston would go CB in first?

Honestly I do not think that is even considered by a position player other than QB.

bah007
03-04-2008, 03:34 PM
Would Reeves have signed if he thought Houston would go CB in first?

If he cant handle competing for a job in our secondary, then he shouldnt be in the NFL.

He probably saw this as his best shot to be a starter, not necesarilly a guarantee.

texasguy346
03-04-2008, 03:42 PM
Chevis Jackson - LSU: His time 40 time puts him in this category because he does everything pretty well except run. Would probably make a solid FS.

I really like Jackson as a FS prospect. He's very smooth in and out of breaks, and he's got good size. I think he'd do well in the NFL. Not sure where he's projected, but I think he'd likely be available in the 3rd or 4th round on day two of the draft.

bigbrewster2000
03-04-2008, 04:31 PM
Would Reeves have signed if he thought Houston would go CB in first?
IMO Dunta is the one that should be worrying about his future with the Texans. Nobody wants to hear this but he is going to be coming off a terrible set of injuries in a contract year, and it really looks like the Texans are setting themselves up for the future here especially if they go CB in the 1st. And personally I am glad they are going this direction. I like Dunta and hope he comes back and remains a Texan for his whole career but I like the fact that the Texans arent going to sit on their hands and create massive holes in our secondary depth chart.

CB in the first = no Dunta in the future.

stiff
03-04-2008, 07:38 PM
IMO Dunta is the one that should be worrying about his future with the Texans. Nobody wants to hear this but he is going to be coming off a terrible set of injuries in a contract year, and it really looks like the Texans are setting themselves up for the future here especially if they go CB in the 1st. And personally I am glad they are going this direction. I like Dunta and hope he comes back and remains a Texan for his whole career but I like the fact that the Texans arent going to sit on their hands and create massive holes in our secondary depth chart.

CB in the first = no Dunta in the future.

I agree that it is good that the Texans are preparing for life without DR. However I dont think that if they pick a CB that means no Dunta. I am unsure how he will perform after the knee injury. Long term he may need to be moved to Safety.

LZ
03-05-2008, 07:26 PM
Lance, I'd love to get in a few questions while we're on CB's:

1. Does the signing of Reeves have any effect on us NOT taking a CB in the 1st round? (especially if it's at or close to BPA)

2. What exactly is the scheme we're trying to implement in the secondary? I've heard zone, but then I heard Reeves played zone in dallas and is better on the WR? I think this question really leads into the next one.

3. What CB's in the draft would be good fits for the scheme we're running? Example: No use selecting a cover-2 guy if we're playing strictly man up.

4. There has been little to no talk about Antoine Cason, CB from Arizona. I just simply don't see how he's being viewed as a late 2nd rounder now. I'd love to know what you think of him and what the talk about this guy is in some of the circles, especially as it relates to the Texans.

Thank you very much! :)


Question 1: I can't see that it will matter at all. Reeves will start this year in all likelihood since DRob is almost a lock not to play and you never know what will happen with DRob and his contract status after next year. If 4 tackles are off the board by 18 (which I think will be the case), then CB becomes the favorite to go at 18.

Question 2: The Texans would prefer to be a man team more than zone, but they had to play zone out of necessity by the end of the year. They don't have the prototypical "centerfielder" at safety who can play deep and give great coverage in zone so that limits them in my opinion. There are times I'm uncertain if the defense really knows what they want to be. On offense, there are no doubts.

Question 3: The Texans have a history of going after guys who can run and who can tackle (well except for Buchanon). You can find guys who can run and you can find guys who will come up and tackle, but it is hard to find both. Five guys to watch for would be: DRC, Charles Godfrey, Antwaun Molden, Terrence Wheatley and Reggie Smith. All of these guys will tackle at least a little bit and all but Smith run well (we'll see about Smith, but I think he'll be in the low to mid 4.5s).

Question 4: The talk about Cason is that he's overrated by the draft services and that he is a 3rd round cornerback with one scout telling me "he stinks". I watched him over the last two years and I don't think he "stinks" but he's not super physical and he has more trouble in man than you would like. If he's threre in the 3rd, I'm sure the Texans will take a look unless they go CB in the 1st.

LZ
03-05-2008, 07:27 PM
Would Reeves have signed if he thought Houston would go CB in first?

For the money he got? Yes.

Errant Hothy
03-05-2008, 07:29 PM
Question 1: I can't see that it will matter at all. Reeves will start this year in all likelihood since DRob is almost a lock not to play and you never know what will happen with DRob and his contract status after next year. If 4 tackles are off the board by 18 (which I think will be the case), then CB becomes the favorite to go at 18.

Question 2: The Texans would prefer to be a man team more than zone, but they had to play zone out of necessity by the end of the year. They don't have the prototypical "centerfielder" at safety who can play deep and give great coverage in zone so that limits them in my opinion. There are times I'm uncertain if the defense really knows what they want to be. On offense, there are no doubts.

Question 3: The Texans have a history of going after guys who can run and who can tackle (well except for Buchanon). You can find guys who can run and you can find guys who will come up and tackle, but it is hard to find both. Five guys to watch for would be: DRC, Charles Godfrey, Antwaun Molden, Terrence Wheatley and Reggie Smith. All of these guys will tackle at least a little bit and all but Smith run well (we'll see about Smith, but I think he'll be in the low to mid 4.5s).

Question 4: The talk about Cason is that he's overrated by the draft services and that he is a 3rd round cornerback with one scout telling me "he stinks". I watched him over the last two years and I don't think he "stinks" but he's not super physical and he has more trouble in man than you would like. If he's threre in the 3rd, I'm sure the Texans will take a look unless they go CB in the 1st.


Would Tracy Porter not fit into this category as well? Not at 18, but maybe witht he 3rd if he's still there.

LZ
03-05-2008, 08:12 PM
Would Tracy Porter not fit into this category as well? Not at 18, but maybe witht he 3rd if he's still there.

Very good cover corner but not a fan of contact.

beerlover
03-05-2008, 08:18 PM
hey Lance, as discussed earlier Groves stock is rising & you brought up an interesting point that 4-3 teams should not discount his value especially in pass rushing situations, but what excatly would be the process from here to get him into Relient for a personal workout? if you could explain how the process works from now til draft day, I'd appreciate it :)

Errant Hothy
03-05-2008, 08:20 PM
Very good cover corner but not a fan of contact.

OK.

You ever get a solid answer of Joe Thomas' arm length?

Possiblly the correct answer...maybe?

So late last night I was going over all back through all of last year's draft mags, and lo and behold PFW's had an arm length listed for Joe Thomas. Side note; I'm not overly fond of PFW draft magazine, but their book that come out a couple weeks before the draft is excellent.

Thomas' listed arm length: 32 5/8"

TEXANRED
03-05-2008, 08:33 PM
Question 1: I can't see that it will matter at all. Reeves will start this year in all likelihood since DRob is almost a lock not to play and you never know what will happen with DRob and his contract status after next year. If 4 tackles are off the board by 18 (which I think will be the case), then CB becomes the favorite to go at 18.



I originally thought DRob would take the Spencer path and begin the year of the PUP list and end up on IR. Only problem is that next year is his contract year and lesser CB's like Clements and A.S. are getting 8-10 million a year.

I believe some how some way DRob will find the field next year.

Who knows, maybe as we speak he is using TO's amazing mystical cure all hyperbaric chamber.

LZ
03-05-2008, 10:45 PM
hey Lance, as discussed earlier Groves stock is rising & you brought up an interesting point that 4-3 teams should not discount his value especially in pass rushing situations, but what excatly would be the process from here to get him into Relient for a personal workout? if you could explain how the process works from now til draft day, I'd appreciate it :)


If the Texans wanted to bring him in for a workout, then he would have to be on a limited list of players they can bring in. I can't remember the total number and one of my agent friends isn't answering at this time of night but I think the number of players you can bring in is something like 14 or so.... I got confirmation today that the number of players is 30.

LZ
03-05-2008, 10:47 PM
I originally thought DRob would take the Spencer path and begin the year of the PUP list and end up on IR. Only problem is that next year is his contract year and lesser CB's like Clements and A.S. are getting 8-10 million a year.

I believe some how some way DRob will find the field next year.

Who knows, maybe as we speak he is using TO's amazing mystical cure all hyperbaric chamber.


No prayer. The old "hammy off the bone" is a b*tch and if that wasn't bad enough, once that gets taken care of, he has extensive rehab with the knee. The timetable for that kind of crazy rehab is just too long to expect him to make it back any earlier than December (which would be too late).

beerlover
03-05-2008, 10:54 PM
If the Texans wanted to bring him in for a workout, then he would have to be on a limited list of players they can bring in. I can't remember the total number and one of my agent friends isn't answering at this time of night but I think the number of players you can bring in is something like 14 or so. I don't think I'm that far off on the number.

that makes it critical to identify your prospects/need players. outside of bringing them in for a final evaluation, what access do teams get on Pro Days? meanwhile I have to start working on a 14 player list, half of those for the 1st pick, the rest in case of a trade down or 3rd/4th rd. availability. thanks for the insight.

Honoring Earl 34
03-05-2008, 10:56 PM
No prayer. The old "hammy off the bone" is a b*tch and if that wasn't bad enough, once that gets taken care of, he has extensive rehab with the knee. The timetable for that kind of crazy rehab is just too long to expect him to make it back any earlier than December (which would be too late).

I guess Reeves was a flexibility signing in case a better player at another position was there at # 18 .

I wonder if we can get a player that's athletic but raw like Godfrey CB or Benedict OL and really improve them because of the addition of Rhodes and Gibbs . Of course that would mean that they need to be coachable .

Lucky
03-06-2008, 07:50 AM
If the Texans wanted to bring him in for a workout, then he would have to be on a limited list of players they can bring in.
According to NFL VP of communications Greg Aiello (courtesy of the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/24/sports/football/24meetings.html)), the limit to draft prospect visits is at 30. But, no physical workouts. Local players (players who went to college or HS in the Houston area) don't count against the list.

The visits are arranged and paid for by the teams, which are allowed to meet with a player only once and for no longer than a day, the league spokesman Greg Aiello said. Visits may not include any physical activity, he said, and teams can meet with as many as 30 draft-eligible players. That limit, however, does not apply to players who attended college or high school in the same metropolitan area, or players whose parents reside nearby.Sorry to make your list longer, beerlover.

beerlover
03-06-2008, 10:12 AM
According to NFL VP of communications Greg Aiello (courtesy of the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/24/sports/football/24meetings.html)), the limit to draft prospect visits is at 30. But, no physical workouts. Local players (players who went to college or HS in the Houston area) don't count against the list.

Sorry to make your list longer, beerlover.

:tearup:

there must be some mistake, it says no physical workouts, maybe this is a seperate occurance. LZ must have meant that you can bring in up to 12 prospects to run them through some physical tests/workouts?

Lucky
03-06-2008, 10:26 AM
there must be some mistake, it says no physical workouts, maybe this is a seperate occurance.
Individual workouts can't be held at the NFL teams facility. Those are usually held at the player's college campus or pro day location. I don't think there is a limit as to how many players can be worked out per team in this instance. Just a limit on visits to the facility.

HOU-TEX
03-06-2008, 11:15 AM
Hey LZ, I read your blog on what your "scout" thought about a few RB's. I was kind of surprised to see him/her speak so highly of Tashard Choice. He even recommended Choice over Rice and Smith. Can you give more information on Choice and why he/she liked him so much.

He also mentioned Forte would fit right into our scheme, but I don't foresee the Texans reaching for him at 18. IMO, he'll be a late 1st or an early second round pick. Which is our dead spot in the draft.

Who else could possibly plug in our scheme and produce right away?

:texflag:

badboy
03-06-2008, 12:16 PM
As of today, if Williams is at #18 I go with him and hope for Forte in 3d. If not, Stewart and then Tony Hills in 3rd. Either way, I go Cb in 4th.

Insideop
03-06-2008, 01:00 PM
Individual workouts can't be held at the NFL teams facility. Those are usually held at the player's college campus or pro day location. I don't think there is a limit as to how many players can be worked out per team in this instance. Just a limit on visits to the facility.

What about physical exams? Can a team bring in a player they might want to draft and may have a question about, in terms of his health (like a previous knee or shoulder injury), and give him a physical?

Lucky
03-06-2008, 02:11 PM
What about physical exams? Can a team bring in a player they might want to draft and may have a question about, in terms of his health (like a previous knee or shoulder injury), and give him a physical?
Haven't seen anything that would address that. I would suppose that if the player wasn't a combine invite (where the x-rays & examinations take place), that would be allowed.

infantrycak
03-06-2008, 02:38 PM
What about physical exams? Can a team bring in a player they might want to draft and may have a question about, in terms of his health (like a previous knee or shoulder injury), and give him a physical?

Teams are allowed to bring a limited number of players to their facility for interviews. Don't know if it includes an exam.

LZ
03-06-2008, 04:34 PM
Hey LZ, I read your blog on what your "scout" thought about a few RB's. I was kind of surprised to see him/her speak so highly of Tashard Choice. He even recommended Choice over Rice and Smith. Can you give more information on Choice and why he/she liked him so much.

He also mentioned Forte would fit right into our scheme, but I don't foresee the Texans reaching for him at 18. IMO, he'll be a late 1st or an early second round pick. Which is our dead spot in the draft.

Who else could possibly plug in our scheme and produce right away?

:texflag:


He is a real scout and not just a "scout". LOL. As for Choice, I'm not a huge fan, but one thing I was told was that if you watched the wrong games last year, you might see him when he was injured and he played when he was severely hampered and when he was healthy it was like night and day. Forte was mentioned as a fit, but that is in the 3rd or 4th round... not at 18. I think some of the best fits would be Rice, Hart (a little too slow though), C. Johnson and possibly J. Charles. If you are interested in fits who might not produce right away but who you could get later, I would say Thomas Brown, Justin Forsett and maybe Ryan Torain (also not that fast).

LZ
03-06-2008, 04:36 PM
What about physical exams? Can a team bring in a player they might want to draft and may have a question about, in terms of his health (like a previous knee or shoulder injury), and give him a physical?

I'm pretty sure they can give a physical exam. In fact, I'm almost positive.

Vinny
03-06-2008, 04:48 PM
He is a real scout and not just a "scout". LOL. As for Choice, I'm not a huge fan, but one thing I was told was that if you watched the wrong games last year, you might see him when he was injured and he played when he was severely hampered and when he was healthy it was like night and day. Forte was mentioned as a fit, but that is in the 3rd or 4th round... not at 18. I think some of the best fits would be Rice, Hart (a little too slow though), C. Johnson and possibly J. Charles. If you are interested in fits who might not produce right away but who you could get later, I would say Thomas Brown, Justin Forsett and maybe Ryan Torain (also not that fast).
Hart is a Dom Davis like type deal...Dom ran slow at the combine too. Smallish guys who run with a strong base (can break arm tackles) and are sudden enough to change directions in short space but won't win many sprints to the goal line.

Brando
03-06-2008, 05:01 PM
nevermind

HOU-TEX
03-06-2008, 05:07 PM
He is a real scout and not just a "scout". LOL. As for Choice, I'm not a huge fan, but one thing I was told was that if you watched the wrong games last year, you might see him when he was injured and he played when he was severely hampered and when he was healthy it was like night and day. Forte was mentioned as a fit, but that is in the 3rd or 4th round... not at 18. I think some of the best fits would be Rice, Hart (a little too slow though), C. Johnson and possibly J. Charles. If you are interested in fits who might not produce right away but who you could get later, I would say Thomas Brown, Justin Forsett and maybe Ryan Torain (also not that fast).

I wasn't referring to scout in quotes as in a 'you're full of it' way.

Do you really think Forte will last that long? I was thinking no later than the 2nd round.

Second Honeymoon
03-06-2008, 05:10 PM
Yeah, Hart reminds me of a smaller Dayne. Big guy with good feet but not a lot of breakaway speed, especially against NFL speed.

Aside from his production at college and some of his intangibles, another thing that I absoltely love about the guy was that HE was the guy who stepped up for Michigan and turned their season around. He loves to play football and he has pride in his heart. He was a team leader and backed up his talk with his play and didn't throw some sort of pity party when things went so wrong early for UofM in 2007. He also had to deal with a lot of the media pressure and off the field distractions at the power Michigan, that are part and parcel of being an NFL professional. I have no clue where he will be picked but if we have yet to address RB and he is there in the 4th Round, we might have to take a shot.

Insideop
03-06-2008, 11:10 PM
LZ, I was listening to your Draft Show this evening in my car and around 6:25 pm there was a bunch of static and then another station, that was broadcasting music, came on over your broadcast. I was never able to tune your station in again, and missed some of what was discussed about drafting Mendenhall if he were there at #18. I did hear y'all talking about Gibbs and how he will probably want to get O-line and RB's later in the draft, but I did hear someone say that Mendenhall would be good in a ZB system. Can you fill in the blanks? Are we likely to pass on Mendenhall (if there at #18) even if he were a good fit?

Thanks!

badboy
03-07-2008, 09:13 AM
If Jamaal Charles were to be available in third and we take a LT in first would anyone take Charles?

Vinny
03-07-2008, 10:49 AM
If Jamaal Charles were to be available in third and we take a LT in first would anyone take Charles?
It wouldn't make me very happy. I'm hoping to get a DE, LB, or a OL in the 3rd after we draft a CB in the first. We can get a back in the 4th round.

Second Honeymoon
03-07-2008, 02:18 PM
It wouldn't make me very happy. I'm hoping to get a DE, LB, or a OL in the 3rd after we draft a CB in the first. We can get a back in the 4th round.

I agree with Vinny. We should be able to get a serviceable back in the 4th Round and fill our defensive holes or add OL depth in the 1st and 3rd.

i would prefer they go after DB help in the 1st in the form of Phillips, Cason, or Cromartie.

badboy
03-07-2008, 02:25 PM
It wouldn't make me very happy. I'm hoping to get a DE, LB, or a OL in the 3rd after we draft a CB in the first. We can get a back in the 4th round.Who is available in 4th?

TexansSeminole
03-07-2008, 02:26 PM
I agree with Vinny and SH's last posts. I'd like to see us add someone to our front seven in the third round, preferably a linebacker.

LZ
03-07-2008, 03:04 PM
LZ, I was listening to your Draft Show this evening in my car and around 6:25 pm there was a bunch of static and then another station, that was broadcasting music, came on over your broadcast. I was never able to tune your station in again, and missed some of what was discussed about drafting Mendenhall if he were there at #18. I did hear y'all talking about Gibbs and how he will probably want to get O-line and RB's later in the draft, but I did hear someone say that Mendenhall would be good in a ZB system. Can you fill in the blanks? Are we likely to pass on Mendenhall (if there at #18) even if he were a good fit?

Thanks!

Go to 1560thegame.com and it is under the "Listen Live" section and then hit podcast. At the bottom you will find our show from yesterday.

Honoring Earl 34
03-07-2008, 03:11 PM
Who is available in 4th?

This is just a ballpark on rounds they might get picked . Of course at this point you just got to wait and see .

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/players.php?genpos=RB&draftyear=2008&sortorder=tsxpos&order=ASC

Second Honeymoon
03-07-2008, 03:19 PM
I agree with Vinny and SH's last posts. I'd like to see us add someone to our front seven in the third round, preferably a linebacker.

Ali Highsmith out of LSU would be a consideration in the 3rd or perhaps even 4th Round at LB.

He didn't have a great combine but lets see if he has a good pro day. The guy seems like the type of guy that could really excel at the next level. If in doubt, go SEC. After all, it's the genteel thing to do. He's not a Bama boy like Ryans but LSU is still SEC. :)

TexansSeminole
03-07-2008, 03:22 PM
Ali Highsmith out of LSU would be a consideration in the 3rd or perhaps even 4th Round at LB.

He didn't have a great combine but lets see if he has a good pro day. The guy seems like the type of guy that could really excel at the next level. If in doubt, go SEC. After all, it's the genteel thing to do.

I like Shawn Crable (Big Michigan LB) and Wesley Woodyard (Great SEC LB who could play behind Greenwood immediately). Not sure if either will be there but those are the two I would think about targeting for interviews.

We'll see with Highsmith. He has red flag all over him after the combine.

Second Honeymoon
03-07-2008, 03:32 PM
I like Shawn Crable (Big Michigan LB) and Wesley Woodyard (Great SEC LB who could play behind Greenwood immediately). Not sure if either will be there but those are the two I would think about targeting for interviews.

We'll see with Highsmith. He has red flag all over him after the combine.

He still ran the fastest 20 yard shuttle at combine for LBs which is probably a better indication of a LB's skill than running in straight line. He obviously trained poorly and tried to bulk up too much to compensate for what is considered less than ideal size for a NFL LB. I watched about 7 LSU games this year and he never looked slow, quite the contrary. Let's wait and see what his Pro Day shows.

Two other top LB prospects didn't even do all the drills at the combine and are going to point everything to their Pro Day. I give Highsmith some credit for attending the combine and not skipping drills like many others did (Connor and Rivers come to mind). If we are going to wait till the combine to fully grade those guys, we should wait till then to slot Highsmith. Sadly, if he has a good Pro Day he might not even be there in the 3rd or 4th. It's funny how that stuff works itself out....all I know is that he makes plays at a position of need, but if he runs another 5.0 40yard dash, it will be tough to take him so early...I think he will get that fixed and get it to around 4.7 on Pro Day.

Honoring Earl 34
03-07-2008, 03:59 PM
He still ran the fastest 20 yard shuttle at combine for LBs which is probably a better indication of a LB's skill than running in straight line. He obviously trained poorly and tried to bulk up too much to compensate for what is considered less than ideal size for a NFL LB. I watched about 7 LSU games this year and he never looked slow, quite the contrary. Let's wait and see what his Pro Day shows.

Two other top LB prospects didn't even do all the drills at the combine and are going to point everything to their Pro Day. I give Highsmith some credit for attending the combine and not skipping drills like many others did (Connor and Rivers come to mind). If we are going to wait till the combine to fully grade those guys, we should wait till then to slot Highsmith. Sadly, if he has a good Pro Day he might not even be there in the 3rd or 4th. It's funny how that stuff works itself out....all I know is that he makes plays at a position of need, but if he runs another 5.0 40yard dash, it will be tough to take him so early...I think he will get that fixed and get it to around 4.7 on Pro Day.

Kinda sounds like Abbate last year .

Ole Miss Texan
03-07-2008, 04:33 PM
I have a very good strategy when it comes to scouting linebackers for the draft. Just take the SEC defensive player of the year and you'll be safe (see Demeco Ryans and Patrick Willis). In this case, it's Glenn Dorsey, a. we have no shot at him and b. he's a DT.

So now let's just look at the 2007 1st Team All-SEC LB's in the Draft:

LB # Ali Highsmith LSU 6-1 225
LB # Wesley Woodyard Kentucky 6-1 212
LB Jerod Mayo Tennessee 6-2 230


I think I'd start looking at them in the 3rd round and get a SEC LB to play next to Demeco!

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
03-09-2008, 05:00 PM
Hey Lance, recently you talked about Dunta's leg injury and said you had heard it isn't the type of injury that should have any lasting effects, or something to that extent. Instead it is only one of those injuries that takes awhile to rehab. Can you refresh my memory as to what you said? I just want to see if I heard it right.

Kaiser Toro
03-09-2008, 05:28 PM
Hey Lance, recently you talked about Dunta's leg injury and said you had heard it isn't the type of injury that should have any lasting effects, or something to that extent. Instead it is only one of those injuries that takes awhile to rehab. Can you refresh my memory as to what you said? I just want to see if I heard it right.

I am sure he has more to add, but this is from page seven.

No prayer. The old "hammy off the bone" is a b*tch and if that wasn't bad enough, once that gets taken care of, he has extensive rehab with the knee. The timetable for that kind of crazy rehab is just too long to expect him to make it back any earlier than December (which would be too late).

Da_General
03-10-2008, 08:22 AM
Way off topic for a second here, but...

LZ - did you ever get into the Wilco concert on Friday? You sounded kinda pissed off when we spoke to you outside. If not, you missed a heckuva show.

badboy
03-10-2008, 10:43 AM
This is just a ballpark on rounds they might get picked . Of course at this point you just got to wait and see .

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/players.php?genpos=RB&draftyear=2008&sortorder=tsxpos&order=ASCI keep that link in my favorites and have reviewed continuosly. I see no one solid in 4th other than Choice and he is catching heat from several including LZ if I am not mistaken. Why would you pass on an RB in 1st & 3rd and then hope someone drops? We have two guys that have played in very few actual games in Walker and Taylor; Ahman Green who might not even be on team after June cuts; no RB signed in free agency and some want to go with that and a maybe 4th round selection? That is interesting.

SuperTexan
03-10-2008, 03:16 PM
Hey Lance, recently you talked about Dunta's leg injury and said you had heard it isn't the type of injury that should have any lasting effects, or something to that extent. Instead it is only one of those injuries that takes awhile to rehab. Can you refresh my memory as to what you said? I just want to see if I heard it right.

The dreaded "hammy off the bone" injury takes awhile to come back from but it shouldn't be a permanent issue for him. His ACL injury is another one that isn't a career ender for a CB as long as he rehabs it the right way. The only thing I worry about is Robinson trying to come back too soon. He's competitive and in a contract year and I just hope that he doesn't go out of his way to try and make it back to his detriment and the team's detriment. This type of injury at this time of the year would generally put him out until about December.

LZ
03-10-2008, 03:18 PM
The dreaded "hammy off the bone" injury takes awhile to come back from but it shouldn't be a permanent issue for him. His ACL injury is another one that isn't a career ender for a CB as long as he rehabs it the right way. The only thing I worry about is Robinson trying to come back too soon. He's competitive and in a contract year and I just hope that he doesn't go out of his way to try and make it back to his detriment and the team's detriment. This type of injury at this time of the year would generally put him out until about December.


I agree with you, but keep in mind that PUP list will give him 6 weeks to continue to rehab and then there is another time frame (a couple of weeks?) where the Texans can still continue to wait until they activate him or put him on the IR. Remember that the Texans have to clear him to play so he won't get out on the field based upon if he feels he's ready. The team docs have to give him the okay.

LZ
03-10-2008, 03:19 PM
Way off topic for a second here, but...

LZ - did you ever get into the Wilco concert on Friday? You sounded kinda pissed off when we spoke to you outside. If not, you missed a heckuva show.


I finally got into the show as I finally got my tickets. Tweedy's voice was a little ragged but I still thought the band sounded great. This is the 2nd time I've seen them and they put on a great show. I really like that venue.

LZ
03-10-2008, 03:21 PM
I am sure he has more to add, but this is from page seven.


LOL. Looking at Super Texan's post looked pretty familiar. I didn't realize he had lifted much of one of my previous posts.

YoungTexanFan
03-10-2008, 03:58 PM
Lance, in your mock draft version 3, you have Brandon Alberts going to Denver. This is the first I have seen Alberts drafted this high, and I actually feel he is worth the mid-first draft slot, but are you projecting him to play OG or OT in Denver and in the NFL in general? Now, assuming he doesn't quite go that high, and is sitting at 18, how do you/the FO feel about adding Alberts to our team? We need OG help and he can double as a swing tackle. Not only does he fit our/Denver system, he has all of the athletic ability and natural talent in the world.

infantrycak
03-10-2008, 04:10 PM
I agree with you, but keep in mind that PUP list will give him 6 weeks to continue to rehab and then there is another time frame (a couple of weeks?) where the Texans can still continue to wait until they activate him or put him on the IR. Remember that the Texans have to clear him to play so he won't get out on the field based upon if he feels he's ready. The team docs have to give him the okay.

The Texans can have him start practicing between weeks 6-9 and then they have two weeks to make a decision whether to activate him or IR him. So they could rehab him for 8 weeks and then practice weeks 9 & 10 before making a decision.

The Pencil Neck
03-10-2008, 04:29 PM
LOL. Looking at Super Texan's post looked pretty familiar. I didn't realize he had lifted much of one of my previous posts.

Apparently there's some sort of mancrush there that's bordering on the skirry.



:jk:

LZ
03-10-2008, 05:18 PM
Lance, in your mock draft version 3, you have Brandon Alberts going to Denver. This is the first I have seen Alberts drafted this high, and I actually feel he is worth the mid-first draft slot, but are you projecting him to play OG or OT in Denver and in the NFL in general? Now, assuming he doesn't quite go that high, and is sitting at 18, how do you/the FO feel about adding Alberts to our team? We need OG help and he can double as a swing tackle. Not only does he fit our/Denver system, he has all of the athletic ability and natural talent in the world.


I think the Broncos could use him as their RT but if he couldn't win the job as a rookie, he could compete at OG as well. The ability to play both spots is considered a big plus since teams don't have many linemen active in a given week. He is best suited for the tackle spot but could play guard in the ZBS where his average strength wouldn't be as big a concern. I feel he would easily fit into the Texans system as well.

LZ
03-10-2008, 05:19 PM
Apparently there's some sort of mancrush there that's bordering on the skirry.



:jk:


When I was reading it I was thinking that it sounded like something I had posted on my blog or on here one time. LOL.

YoungTexanFan
03-10-2008, 11:56 PM
I think the Broncos could use him as their RT but if he couldn't win the job as a rookie, he could compete at OG as well. The ability to play both spots is considered a big plus since teams don't have many linemen active in a given week. He is best suited for the tackle spot but could play guard in the ZBS where his average strength wouldn't be as big a concern. I feel he would easily fit into the Texans system as well.

As a RT? I was thinking maybe a LT and have Foster slide over to RT. Do you honestly feel he will be a better OT than OG? I see him as a rare OG that is worth a first round pick in the teens. I just see him being a better natural OG that would be better suited as a swing tackle rather than being an OT who could slide inside to guard in a pinch. I know he has all the measurables, but he has put all of those together at OG and proven he is a dominant player at that position, why not leave him there?

Ole Miss Texan
03-11-2008, 08:57 AM
We could use a dominant Guard, esp. one that has the versatility to play LT occasionally or down the road. What's the thought on him here, if he's available and other top choices are not?

LZ
03-11-2008, 12:10 PM
As a RT? I was thinking maybe a LT and have Foster slide over to RT. Do you honestly feel he will be a better OT than OG? I see him as a rare OG that is worth a first round pick in the teens. I just see him being a better natural OG that would be better suited as a swing tackle rather than being an OT who could slide inside to guard in a pinch. I know he has all the measurables, but he has put all of those together at OG and proven he is a dominant player at that position, why not leave him there?


I'm not sure the Broncos would want to plug in a rookie at LT again. They had Ryan Harris there last year and from what I understand, they like him. Albert could go LT or RT but you might be right because Albert is a better prospect than Harris. Teams question his strength in terms of playing guard in the NFL and teams who have watched film on him say that he actually looks better at tackle than at guard.

YoungTexanFan
03-11-2008, 01:06 PM
I'm not sure the Broncos would want to plug in a rookie at LT again. They had Ryan Harris there last year and from what I understand, they like him. Albert could go LT or RT but you might be right because Albert is a better prospect than Harris. Teams question his strength in terms of playing guard in the NFL and teams who have watched film on him say that he actually looks better at tackle than at guard.

While he doesn't have Jake Long type strength, isn't his strength adequate when coupled with his arm length? I feel his ability to move in space and his ability to drive the defender in the open field make him a better ZBS guard than tackle. I know he has the measurables to play LT, but I do not believe in converting a player I feel has all-pro potential at one position to another position that he MAY be able to play. I believe if we are going to draft a OG and attempt to convert him to LT, it should be in the latter stages of the draft. A first rounder is not the pick to use. Boss Bailey had all the athleticism in the world but couldn't put it together aside from injuries. Spencer had 2 games of NFL experience, so how or why would anyone deem him to be a successful transition project. He was an unknown entity, and he still is to this day.

Ole Miss Texan
03-11-2008, 04:45 PM
Lance, I apologize in advance if you've answered this before, because I'm sure you have:

How many Running Backs do you see the Texans having on the roster next season? and who would be available to put on the practice squad? (Walker, Taylor, undrafted rookie, rookie late round draft pick, etc??)

Ole Miss Texan
03-12-2008, 02:33 PM
I think that show was called Sport Science or something like that. Very interesting.

Ah yes, thanks TPN, I found it!

Here's a link for those who want to watch. We were discussing why long arms are good for Left Tackles vs. short arms. Of course technique is most important, but just a little extra longer of an arm can help in the LT pushing the DE. This video is really focused on the QB vs. DE but you can easily see the importance of the LT- which they are discussing the entire team without ever really referencing it. It's great seeing something from a more "scientific" view.

It's about 7 minutes long and well worth the watch if your interested... just fast forward about 1 minute and you avoid all show introductions..

Sports Science: Ben Roethlisberger (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En6cTw1nGSo)

beerlover
03-13-2008, 05:52 PM
Ready for tonights Draft Show? :fans:

stiff
03-13-2008, 06:04 PM
Ready for tonights Draft Show? :fans:


Ready here just fired up the streaming on the laptop...:splits:

beerlover
03-13-2008, 06:16 PM
I totally agreed with their take on Stewart. teams will kick themselves for passing on the guy. in a worst case scenero he misses two games thats 6 months out, he had surgery yesterday. also mentioned teams that would be all over him range from 20-30. would not last until the 2nd rd. or make it past the Packers. no mention of San Diego.

beerlover
03-13-2008, 06:17 PM
upon aquiring Chris Brown its a lock they don't take a RB in the 1st rd.

LZ
03-14-2008, 10:23 PM
Lance, I apologize in advance if you've answered this before, because I'm sure you have:

How many Running Backs do you see the Texans having on the roster next season? and who would be available to put on the practice squad? (Walker, Taylor, undrafted rookie, rookie late round draft pick, etc??)

I think there will be three backs on the roster and possibly one on the practice squad. The third RB needs to be able to play special teams either as a return man or in coverage since the first two backs (assuming A. Green is still here) won't play "teams". I think it will be Green, Brown and Taylor with a draft pick or undrafted on the practice squad or taking over the 3rd spot.

dalemurphy
03-14-2008, 11:20 PM
I think there will be three backs on the roster and possibly one on the practice squad. The third RB needs to be able to play special teams either as a return man or in coverage since the first two backs (assuming A. Green is still here) won't play "teams". I think it will be Green, Brown and Taylor with a draft pick or undrafted on the practice squad or taking over the 3rd spot.

Do you think it's possible that we go with 4 RBs on the 53 man roster? Particularly if Chris Taylor and the rookie can play ST?

Obviously, we wouldn't have all 4 active on game day, but with all the injury concerns and the likely depth, I think it's worth considering. What do yo think, Lance?

LZ
03-17-2008, 11:05 PM
Do you think it's possible that we go with 4 RBs on the 53 man roster? Particularly if Chris Taylor and the rookie can play ST?

Obviously, we wouldn't have all 4 active on game day, but with all the injury concerns and the likely depth, I think it's worth considering. What do yo think, Lance?

I can see 3 active and one on practice squad but that is about it. Your third RB is going to have to be able to play special teams in some capacity because Brown and Green won't.

beerlover
03-18-2008, 12:28 PM
I can see 3 active and one on practice squad but that is about it. Your third RB is going to have to be able to play special teams in some capacity because Brown and Green won't.

don't you have to consider the FB position when talking running backs? what about those two roster spots, Leach & Cook?

I really like Arkansas FB Peyton Hillis, 6-1 240 (4.64 forty, 26 reps) he is a bit undersized @ FB but with better ball skills (downhill runner) upgrade over Cook, fits zbs system & versatile (RB, FB, special teams) as injurys & cirmcumstance dictate.

Walker was undrafted.

Cook was a 6th

Hillis should be a 5th

dalemurphy
03-19-2008, 10:46 AM
I can see 3 active and one on practice squad but that is about it. Your third RB is going to have to be able to play special teams in some capacity because Brown and Green won't.



So, then, if we do draft a RB in the first 5 rounds, Smith and Kubes must have a plan on who they hope to cut out of Taylor, Green, CBrown. In that scenario, only having someone placed on the IR before the roster gets cut to 53 would prevent the necessity of a cut.

It looks like there is no way we take a RB even in round 4 or 5 this year- there just isn't any space for one.

badboy
03-19-2008, 12:32 PM
So, then, if we do draft a RB in the first 5 rounds, Smith and Kubes must have a plan on who they hope to cut out of Taylor, Green, CBrown. In that scenario, only having someone placed on the IR before the roster gets cut to 53 would prevent the necessity of a cut.

It looks like there is no way we take a RB even in round 4 or 5 this year- there just isn't any space for one.If need be, Green can be released June 1st and save $3.8million. A drafted back can take his spot. You keep Green until then in case of injury or Brown craps out. Green could also end up being the better choice to keep if healthy. It could be Green, Brown and draft pick with Taylor out or on PS. ( At least I think Taylor can go to PS).

TEXANS84
03-19-2008, 04:41 PM
Tommy Blake is the DE and I'm almost positive he won't be drafted. He has a severe public anxiety disorder and I believe I read he was bi-polar as well. He is weighing in the 280s right now and that his 30 pounds over his playing weight. He easily had first round talent entering the season but he started acting strange before the season and had one famous episode in front of scouts who were there to see him practice before the season started. I just think his baggage makes him almost undraftable.

Looks like Tommy had a good workout, pretty decent numbers. Hopefully he's over the anxiety...and someone will take a chance on him:
DL Tommy Blake: Had a very good workout ... Weighed in at 272. Ran the 40 in 4.80 and 4.83. Had a 30-inch vertical jump, 9-foot, 3-inch long jump, 4.37 short shuttle, 7.16 cone drill and had 23 reps in the bench press.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story;jsessionid=31F68606822B1F3400CE6E069036B384? id=09000d5d806b4a39&template=with-video&confirm=true

Ole Miss Texan
03-19-2008, 04:53 PM
Looks like Tommy had a good workout, pretty decent numbers. Hopefully he's over the anxiety...and someone will take a chance on him:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story;jsessionid=31F68606822B1F3400CE6E069036B384? id=09000d5d806b4a39&template=with-video&confirm=true

Maybe the medical center can give him some good meds? He could be a cheap solution to our pass rushing defensive end problem if he can get his problem fixed. Maybe Samkon Gado can prescribe him something?

I can see Houston being a franchise full of feel-good story players. Gado..kind of but he's obviously not with the team. Maybe with Rashard Butler coming here and find out his illness, he becomes a great player on our OL. Tommy Blake? comes to Houston, gets his illness fixed and becomes a great player. Get a lot of players that overcome adversity- we could have a movie filmed with all our players starring as themselves! If only we could somehow swing Mike Oher in the draft next year. The post is starting to sound more and more sarcastic as I type, so I want to point out it's not intended to be at all. This organization just seems like one (of the few) that can bring the best out in people.

dalemurphy
03-20-2008, 08:02 AM
If need be, Green can be released June 1st and save $3.8million. A drafted back can take his spot. You keep Green until then in case of injury or Brown craps out. Green could also end up being the better choice to keep if healthy. It could be Green, Brown and draft pick with Taylor out or on PS. ( At least I think Taylor can go to PS).

I don't think Taylor can go to the practice squad. However, if he does, another team would snatch him up anyway.

badboy
03-20-2008, 10:36 AM
Maybe the medical center can give him some good meds? He could be a cheap solution to our pass rushing defensive end problem if he can get his problem fixed. Maybe Samkon Gado can prescribe him something?

I can see Houston being a franchise full of feel-good story players. Gado..kind of but he's obviously not with the team. Maybe with Rashard Butler coming here and find out his illness, he becomes a great player on our OL. Tommy Blake? comes to Houston, gets his illness fixed and becomes a great player. Get a lot of players that overcome adversity- we could have a movie filmed with all our players starring as themselves! If only we could somehow swing Mike Oher in the draft next year. The post is starting to sound more and more sarcastic as I type, so I want to point out it's not intended to be at all. This organization just seems like one (of the few) that can bring the best out in people.My experience of working in psychiatric locked units with people with mental issues says there are medications that can often help. However, when person begins to feel normal or even some what better the medication is no longer wanted as it is a reminder to person that he or she is ill. Does the team think the gamble is worth the risk is what it comes down to.

ChampionTexan
03-20-2008, 11:46 AM
My experience of working in psychiatric locked units with people with mental issues says there are medications that can often help. However, when person begins to feel normal or even some what better the medication is no longer wanted as it is a reminder to person that he or she is ill. Does the team think the gamble is worth the risk is what it comes down to.

While I think it's getting better, many of these drugs also have some pretty bad side effects, and that's another reason why there is such a high instance of people taking things into their own hands and discontinuing the treatment.

If you think that professional football players with lots of money and their careers on the line would handle it differently than most, you might consider the cases of Barrett Robbins and Alonzo Spellman.

This doesn't mean that Tommy Blake can't have a successful career, and I would love to see that happen (whatever team it might be with). Just means there's some items to be aware of.

badboy
03-20-2008, 02:41 PM
While I think it's getting better, many of these drugs also have some pretty bad side effects, and that's another reason why there is such a high instance of people taking things into their own hands and discontinuing the treatment.

If you think that professional football players with lots of money and their careers on the line would handle it differently than most, you might consider the cases of Barrett Robbins and Alonzo Spellman.

This doesn't mean that Tommy Blake can't have a successful career, and I would love to see that happen (whatever team it might be with). Just means there's some items to be aware of.
You are correct but for most, the side effects if any are far out weighed by the benefits. Hopefully, Blake can get some to help him have a long career but more importantly a happier life. Robbins crash was because he stopped meds and if I remember correctly he was using alcohol which often does not mix well with meds. I don't remember details on Spellman.

ChampionTexan
03-20-2008, 02:53 PM
You are correct but for most, the side effects if any are far out weighed by the benefits. Hopefully, Blake can get some to help him have a long career but more importantly a happier life. Robbins crash was because he stopped meds and if I remember correctly he was using alcohol which often does not mix well with meds. I don't remember details on Spellman.


I think we're in complete agreement, but to clarify, the side effects combine with the feeling of normalcy that you described in your earlier post to make it that much more attractive to discontinue medication.

Robbins spent at least part of the Saturday before the '03 Super Bowl in Tijuana, so your right on target about the alcohol part. Spellman had more than one instance of unfortunate behavior (as has Robbins), but I believe they were in large part caused by a combination of self medicating with alcohol and recreational drugs as well as discontinuing prescribed medications.

beerlover
03-20-2008, 07:24 PM
about killed my hopes for Otah on tonights version of "the draft show". what are all these sources saying he is moving up the draft boards? was hoping that 20$ to tank it @ the combine worked & he would fall to the 18th pick :cool:

badboy
03-21-2008, 10:40 AM
about killed my hopes for Otah on tonights version of "the draft show". what are all these sources saying he is moving up the draft boards? was hoping that 20$ to tank it @ the combine worked & he would fall to the 18th pick :cool:Do you think he needs to drop a few pounds from 340. Some have suggested that.

Lucky
03-21-2008, 10:50 AM
Do you think he needs to drop a few pounds from 340. Some have suggested that.

I thought Otah weighed 322 lbs (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/ot/jeffotah.html) at the combine?

badboy
03-21-2008, 10:58 AM
I thought Otah weighed 322 lbs (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/ot/jeffotah.html) at the combine?http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=66893You are probably correct. The above link on 2-23-08 said "disappointing time" and on 2-15-08 "6-6 340 lbs." I went back to Draft Scout and they have him at 322 on his combine results. I like that much better. Actually, his "disappointing time" is right there with Anthony Collins who is 317.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=58312

Lucky
03-21-2008, 11:05 AM
Actually, his "disappointing time" is right there with Anthony Collins who is 317.
Otah supposedly got a late start in training due to a high ankle sprain late in the season. His pro day isn't until April, so he has a chance to improve his combine numbers.

nunusguy
03-21-2008, 11:25 AM
Otah supposedly got a late start in training due to a high ankle sprain late in the season. His pro day isn't until April, so he has a chance to improve his combine numbers.
I think he's a senior, so he was eligible for the Senior Bowl but was a no-show. Guess the injury would explain his absence.
Lot a guys feel he's not suited for the Gibbs brand of blocking-schemes but
a lot are also saying he has tremedous potential, no matter the system.
I think we likely take him if he's available (subject of course to whoever else might still be on the Board & possible trade offers).

Vinny
03-21-2008, 12:09 PM
Do you think he needs to drop a few pounds from 340. Some have suggested that.

I thought Otah weighed 322 lbs (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/ot/jeffotah.html) at the combine?
He didn't look too fat at the combine (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jeff-otah?id=292). Click on the vid and you can see he is in pretty good shape for a linemen on a quick eyeballing.

badboy
03-21-2008, 12:33 PM
Someone that has seen the guys please compare Otah to Williams and Clady whom I've seen. If a solid LT is available in first.. unless Stewart is there. I am a big proponent of Jonathan Stewart but the toe injury is a ?. I think Brown can hold on long enough to allow Stewart to get 100%. I just want a good LT, RB and CB in draft. We should do ok in 1st and 3rd and Old Ricky can do his magic in the 4th again.

CB Tyvon Bench in 4th http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=32938

T Heath Benedict, Tony Hills or Oneil Cousins may be there in 4th
I just do not see anyone I like at RB after 3rd round.

Lucky
03-21-2008, 12:46 PM
Someone that has seen the guys please compare Otah to Williams and Clady whom I've seen.

CB Tyvon Bench in 4th

Chris Williams was a guy I was very impressed with at the Senior Bowl practices. It looked like he could do anything he wanted to the DEs across from him, and he had a bit of a mean streak. I liked Cherilus, too. But, he couldn't move his feet like Williams. I think Williams has the best feet of the LTs in this draft and if he were available at #18, the Texans would take him. I don't believe he will be, so that's why a CB looks like the pick. I'm not sure if Otah or Clady would be a good fit with what the Texans are trying to do.

I saw UConn's bowl game, but I wasn't real impressed with Branch. The Husky CB I liked was a junior, Darius Butler. Had a nice break on the ball and was very physical. But, that was just one game.

badboy
03-21-2008, 12:49 PM
Chris Williams was a guy I was very impressed with at the Senior Bowl practices. It looked like he could do anything he wanted to the DEs across from him, and he had a bit of a mean streak. I liked Cherilus, too. But, he couldn't move his feet like Williams. I think Williams has the best feet of the LTs in this draft and if he were available at #18, the Texans would take him. I don't believe he will be, so that's why a CB looks like the pick. I'm not sure if Otah or Clady would be a good fit with what the Texans are trying to do.

I saw UConn's bowl game, but I wasn't real impressed with Branch. The Husky CB I liked was a junior, Darius Butler. Had a nice break on the ball and was very physical. But, that was just one game.Thanks. I've not seen Williams but he is apparently real deal. I did watch Clady and for a big man he did slide pretty well to left. I expect neither to be available but some options later in draft are possible.

beerlover
03-21-2008, 12:55 PM
Pittsburgh has their Pro-Day March 24th. this is when I look for his stock to rise/fall. also the Texans have not been very out in the open during any of these Pro-Day events (I'm sure they have their scouts active in the field) you just don't hear Kubiak/Gibbs/Rhodes names much on the various trackers. so if by chance it leaks out one of them is @ Pitt I would consider that significant.

Vinny
03-21-2008, 12:57 PM
Pittsburgh has their Pro-Day March 24th. this is when I look for his stock to rise/fall. also the Texans have not been very out in the open during any of these Pro-Day events (I'm sure they have their scouts active in the field) you just don't hear Kubiak/Gibbs/Rhodes names much on the various trackers. so if by chance it leaks out one of them is @ Pitt I would consider that significant.I don't recall the Texans being hot on Spencer pre-draft. Perhaps that is wrong but sometimes teams like a guy so much they don't want to tip their hands. I'm not stating this is the case here but I've seen a quarter of a decade of NFL drafts and there are always fans shocked on the first day every year.

beerlover
03-21-2008, 04:11 PM
I don't recall the Texans being hot on Spencer pre-draft. Perhaps that is wrong but sometimes teams like a guy so much they don't want to tip their hands. I'm not stating this is the case here but I've seen a quarter of a decade of NFL drafts and there are always fans shocked on the first day every year.

thats very true. I distinctly remember them @ Marios Pro-Day, but thats a different situation (w/1st pick no fear of recognition) so if they are visiably absent from legit prospects that probably says more. Maybe Lance is refering to private personel workouts that he is not allowed to disclose? in past proven fruitfull inside information on Texans its just getting access to those secret/clandestine activities :spy:

Maddict5
03-21-2008, 04:48 PM
well we all knew they like jacoby alot last year... thats about it

Nawzer
03-21-2008, 06:30 PM
I'm slowly starting to like the idea of drafting a left tackle with our first pick. This year it seems like is a very good year to draft a tackle. Obviously this team needs a left tackle, a guy they can plug in and count on to produce for the next 5 years. Ephraim Salaam is a solid pro but he's not guy. We need to stabilize the o-line and I think this is the year they need to do it.

badboy
03-24-2008, 02:28 PM
If we get a 2nd there are many scenarios I like. Two of which are;

1. Cris Williams LT 2. Forte RB 3. Godfrey or Chevis Jackson CB 4. Tyvon Branch 6'0" 204 4.31 FS/CB


1. Stewart RB 2. Justin King CB 3. Tony Hills (I think A. Collins gone by our pick)4. Eric Young 6'4" 305 5.18 5. Kevin O'Connell QB

ChampionTexan
03-24-2008, 02:33 PM
If we get a 2nd there are many scenarios I like. Two of which are;

1. Cris Williams LT 2. Forte RB 3. Godfrey or Chevis Jackson CB 4. Tyvon Branch 6'0" 204 4.31 FS/CB


1. Stewart RB 2. Justin King CB 3. Tony Hills (I think A. Collins gone by our pick)4. Eric Young 6'4" 305 5.18 5. Kevin O'Connell QB

I like both scenarios - particularly the one that has Williams still available at the 18th pick. And while I like it, and you like it, I would be very surprised to see the Texans go RB with the #18 pick.

LZ
03-24-2008, 08:54 PM
Do you think he needs to drop a few pounds from 340. Some have suggested that.

I honestly don't think Otah is all that great a fit here. He isn't the quickest guy out of his stance in pass protection and he is more of a mauler. He is VERY comparable to Spencer except without quite the nasty streak and he would need to lose weight to play here.

Hardcore Texan
03-24-2008, 10:18 PM
McClain thinks we will take Chris Williams @ #18 or so he stated on NFLN today when Houston was "on the clock" in Path to the Draft.

I like the idea of us going OL or CB @ #18, I think we have to do one or the other. I like Chris Williams too, what little I have seen about him. According to McClain, he is a smart guy, sounds like the kind of guys Kubes and Smith really like.

beerlover
03-24-2008, 10:27 PM
I think we're all in agreement with Williams but will he still be on the board :snobord:

the Texans need to address LT sometimes your forced to take the lesser of two evils :evilb:

edo783
03-24-2008, 10:29 PM
If Williams is there at 18, the odds are that we take him. It gets pretty dicey if there isn't a good LT available, but say JStew is. From what I understand, Talibe isn't well thought of in the upstairs department and DCR will likely go early now (I really don't buy into him. Seems to be one of those guys that get big hype and move up and then never produce). If that comes around, they just may pick Brandon Albert at 18 and hope for the best, but I expect they will work hard to trade down first.

Hardcore Texan
03-24-2008, 10:58 PM
If Williams is there at 18, the odds are that we take him. It gets pretty dicey if there isn't a good LT available, but say JStew is. From what I understand, Talibe isn't well thought of in the upstairs department and DCR will likely go early now (I really don't buy into him. Seems to be one of those guys that get big hype and move up and then never produce). If that comes around, they just may pick Brandon Albert at 18 and hope for the best, but I expect they will work hard to trade down first.

I wouldn't mind Mike Jenkins or McKelvin if either one are available and Williams is gone. But I don't like DRC at 18, certainly is a risk/reward thing with him. I am just not sure about Talib, I would rather have the other two DB's over Talib.

beerlover
03-25-2008, 02:07 AM
Otah still has the same high ankle sprain (same injury that sidelined Levi Brown in Arizona his rookie season for about 4 games) so was unable to workout during his Pro-Day. Otah will instead try to get it together for an April 9th seperate workout (wish I could be there to report first hand I'm getting sick & tired of what I'm reading).

TexansSeminole
03-25-2008, 10:24 AM
Shoot, if you can get Mike Jenkins, take him in a heartbeat. Don't even let 30 seconds waste away on the clock. Jenkins should be a lock for us if he is available.

beerlover
03-27-2008, 09:26 PM
another good draft show tonight fellas, really enjoyed your guest. think he is dead on Stewart (possibly the best rb in this draft class) :)

HJam72
03-27-2008, 09:31 PM
I just figured it out!

We're letting Dayne go this offseason, and that means we're taking a LT in the first! No Dayne: no RBs falling on the back of the LT's knee. :gathering:

Tailgate
03-27-2008, 10:39 PM
Totally stumbled on this thread and caught the show. Good stuff.... will plan on some more tunage on down the rizzoad.

Specnatz
03-27-2008, 11:30 PM
Totally stumbled on this thread and caught the show. Good stuff.... will plan on some more tunage on down the rizzoad.

Goto their website and or look at the links Lance has provided for the podcast of the days you missed. I am usually doing other stuff and miss the show but I catch it later on the cast.

Texans_Chick
03-28-2008, 03:41 PM
For thems that follow these things.

Sirius NFL Radio Mock draft has the Texans taking Branden Albert:

link (http://www.sirius.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Sirius/Page&c=FlexContent&cid=1204897800888)

beerlover
03-29-2008, 01:27 AM
For thems that follow these things.

Sirius NFL Radio Mock draft has the Texans taking Branden Albert:

link (http://www.sirius.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Sirius/Page&c=FlexContent&cid=1204897800888)

instead of doing a mock from scratch I'll piggy back off theirs & y'all can contrast the differences :cool:

Dolphins Jake Long (OT, Michigan) BL- Vernon Gholston
Rams Chris Long (DE, Virginia) BL- Jake Long
Falcons Glenn Dorsey (DT, LSU) BL- agree
Raiders Darren McFadden (RB, Arkansas) BL- Chris Long
Chiefs Matt Ryan (QB, Boston College) BL- Ryan Clady
Jets Vernon Gholston (DE, Ohio State) BL- Darren McFadden
Patriots Leodis McKelvin (CB, Troy) BL- agree
Ravens Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie (CB, Tennessee State) BL- Sedric Ellis
Bengals Sedrick Ellis (DT, USC) BL- Derrick Harvey
Saints Keith Rivers (LB, USC) BL- DRC
Bills Malcom Kelly (WR, Oklahoma) BL-Matt Ryan
Broncos Ryan Clady (OT, Boise State) BL- Chris Williams
Panthers Derrick Harvey (DE, Florida) BL- Jonathan Stewart
Bears Rashard Mendenhall (RB, Illinois) BL- Rashard Mendenhall
Lions Jeff Otah, (OT, Pittsburgh) BL- agree
Cardinals Antoine Cason (CB, Arizona) BL- Mike Jenkins
Vikings Quintin Groves (DE, Auburn) BL- DeSean Jackson
Texans Branden Albert (OG, Virginia) BL- agree
Eagles Kenny Phillips (S, Miami) BL- Phillip Merling
Bucs Mike Jenkins (CB, South Florida) BL- Malcom Kelly
Redskins Devin Thomas (WR, Michigan State) BL- Kenny Phillips
Cowboys Aqib Talib (CB, Kansas) BL- Devin Thomas
Steelers Chris Williams (OT, Vanderbilt) BL- Gosder Cherilus
Titans Jonathan Stewart (RB, Oregon) BL- Limas Sweed
Seahawks Kentwan Balmer (DT, North Carolina) BL- Brian Brohm
Jaguars Dan Conner (LB, Penn State) BL- Kentwan Balmer
Chargers Gosder Cherilus (OT, Boston College) BL- Keith Rivers
Cowboys James Hardy (WR, Indiana) BL- Felix Jones
Niners DeSean Jackson (WR, Cal) BL- Quentin Groves
Packers Brian Brohm (QB, Louisville) BL- Aqib Talib
Giants Jerod Mayo (LB, Tennessee) BL- agree or Conner

LZ
04-03-2008, 04:37 PM
Quick shoutout to everyone that the draft show is on today (Thursday from 6-7 PM) on 1560 AM and I would love to have a couple of you guys call in if you are near a phone: 713-439-1560.

Also, Jethro Franklin was on my show this morning and I think you'll enjoy his insight into Okoye, Mario, what the philosophy is up front and much more.

http://odeo.com/audio/17978283/view

Ole Miss Texan
04-03-2008, 05:13 PM
Quick shoutout to everyone that the draft show is on today (Thursday from 6-7 PM) on 1560 AM and I would love to have a couple of you guys call in if you are near a phone: 713-439-1560.

Also, Jethro Franklin was on my show this morning and I think you'll enjoy his insight into Okoye, Mario, what the philosophy is up front and much more.

http://odeo.com/audio/17978283/view

Awesome, thanks for the reminder! What's on the menu to be discussed tonight?

beerlover
04-03-2008, 05:18 PM
sweet- thanks for the link & Texans update. biggest surprise (to me) was just how much Jethro liked Travis Johnson, calling him a beast with ability to run sideline to sideline.

was curious about your thoughts on a possible trade down scenero involving the Seahawks. my thought is they would love to get their hands on Brandon Albert, at minimum jump ahead of Pittsburgh. In our mocks Albert is off the board so Seattle/Holmgren decide Brohm represents good future value & inusrance @ the QB position. What if however, they make a call to the Texans for the 18th pick offering their pick #25(720) plus a 2nd #55 (350) in exchange to move up #18 (900) to get Albert & Texans QB 1a. Sage Rosenfels?

it is tempting to call in with such questions but you don't realize just how fast "the draft show" flies bye, & its much more interesting to hear your guys thoughts & guests comments like Nolan Nawrocki who I thought was just outstanding :beer:

LZ
04-03-2008, 08:00 PM
Awesome, thanks for the reminder! What's on the menu to be discussed tonight?

We talked about DBs and who the Texans might target at DB, Chris Henry's departure and what it means to the Bengals, Todd McShay's mock draft and which players have the highest floor (least bust potential).

LZ
04-03-2008, 08:04 PM
sweet- thanks for the link & Texans update. biggest surprise (to me) was just how much Jethro liked Travis Johnson, calling him a beast with ability to run sideline to sideline.

was curious about your thoughts on a possible trade down scenero involving the Seahawks. my thought is they would love to get their hands on Brandon Albert, at minimum jump ahead of Pittsburgh. In our mocks Albert is off the board so Seattle/Holmgren decide Brohm represents good future value & inusrance @ the QB position. What if however, they make a call to the Texans for the 18th pick offering their pick #25(720) plus a 2nd #55 (350) in exchange to move up #18 (900) to get Albert & Texans QB 1a. Sage Rosenfels?

it is tempting to call in with such questions but you don't realize just how fast "the draft show" flies bye, & its much more interesting to hear your guys thoughts & guests comments like Nolan Nawrocki who I thought was just outstanding :beer:

I just can't see a scenario where Albert would be on the board and the Texans would rather trade back than draft him. I think the Steeles would have interest in trading up if Otah were on the board at 18 still and the Packers could be a team to move up as well if the right CB were on the board. BTW, there are a lot of names I would call Travis Johnson but "beast" isn't one of them.

Trap_Star
04-03-2008, 08:05 PM
LZ, you're gonna have to tell SEC guy to get his mock draft ready. we can't go into the draft without his insight.

beerlover
04-04-2008, 09:13 AM
I just can't see a scenario where Albert would be on the board and the Texans would rather trade back than draft him.

I agree with you. it's high risk to pass on a player/need like Brandon Albert. On the other hand when talking about trading down people out there have to understand the only way teams give up value is for = or in their opinion greater value. However I could live with a Jonathan Stewart @ #25 & someone like Brandon Flowers @ #55.

I think the Steeles would have interest in trading up if Otah were on the board at 18

more likely the Texans would be willing to do it if Albert is gone. But I'm not ready to discount Otah either (waiting for his pvt workout 4/9) with the success Texans had with Spencer why not go with even better Pitt tackle? could have great success here, he is such a raw talent & this is what Gibbs has been brought in here to do- not only coach up the talent here but to develop diamonds in the rough.

the Packers could be a team to move up as well if the right CB were on the board.

you feel the Packers would trade up for Aqib Talib?

BTW, there are a lot of names I would call Travis Johnson but "beast" isn't one of them.

my mistake, Jethro described him as "burly" not a "beast" overlap "3" technique DT.

Errant Hothy
04-10-2008, 06:03 PM
Draft show time!!

nunusguy
04-10-2008, 06:46 PM
So, anybody got a problem with taking "the man with 1 kidney" if he falls
all the way to #18 ?

Errant Hothy
04-10-2008, 06:49 PM
So, anybody got a problem with taking "the man with 1 kidney" if he falls
all the way to #18 ?

Nope.

Lucky
04-10-2008, 07:03 PM
So, anybody got a problem with taking "the man with 1 kidney" if he falls
all the way to #18 ?
As long as he gets medical clearance, then I guess he's draftable?

I'm buying into the "Dunta will return early" story, so I'm not so hot on taking a CB in round one. There should be a smaller CB that can cover slot receivers available in the 3rd or 4th rounds. If Chris Williams doesn't make it to #18, I wouldn't mind a pass rusher like Derrick Harvey or Quentin Groves. That's right, another d-lineman in the 1st. Keith Rivers wouldn't be so bad, either. I just don't think the Texans need to reach for a corner.

edo783
04-10-2008, 07:16 PM
My preferences in order (of the ones that have any sort of possibity to be at 18)

1. Williams
2. Albert
3. Stewart
4. Jenkins
5. MKelvin
6. DRC
7. Cherilouse


IMO, one or more of these guys should be there. As long as the guys above are gone and we select one of them I'm happy. From about 5 down, I would be happier with a trade into the 20s to take them.

TexanSam
04-10-2008, 07:19 PM
So, anybody got a problem with taking "the man with 1 kidney" if he falls
all the way to #18 ?

Ok so I'm probably going to sound dumb, but who is the man with one kidney?

Errant Hothy
04-10-2008, 07:32 PM
Ok so I'm probably going to sound dumb, but who is the man with one kidney?

DRC.

beerlover
04-10-2008, 08:19 PM
most surprising pick - Jeff Otah #5 to KC

ahead of Clady, I don't understand that & I'm a big Otah fan :thinking:

mussop
04-10-2008, 09:38 PM
most surprising pick - Jeff Otah #5 to KC

ahead of Clady, I don't understand that & I'm a big Otah fan :thinking:
Clady stock has been falling because of a percieved "lack of passion for the game" and low IQ. Heard some scouts are saying he could even fall into the mid to late teens because of it. Cant remember where I heard it. Think it was on 1560 am. Lance?

beerlover
04-11-2008, 03:51 AM
Clady stock has been falling because of a percieved "lack of passion for the game" and low IQ. Heard some scouts are saying he could even fall into the mid to late teens because of it. Cant remember where I heard it. Think it was on 1560 am. Lance?

The Chiefs are preparing for the possibility, maybe even the likelihood, that they'll have to take their shot at the No. 5 draft spot rather than trade down. Now, drafting at No. 5 will be ideal should Kansas City find Michigan tackle Jake Long, the player they truly covet, available at that spot. But it's looking more unlikely that Long will last that long, and that means the Chiefs will be faced with several options. Their primary needs remain at offensive line, where they have only two proven starters returning in guard Brian Waters and tackle Damion McIntosh. After Long, there probably aren't any offensive linemen of true value at the fifth spot. Taking Boise State tackle Ryan Clady, Pittsburgh tackle Jeff Otah or even fast-rising guard/tackle Branden Albert at that spot would be a reach, but one the Chiefs may have to make out of need. Coach Herm Edwards has said that he doesn't consider it "a reach" to take a player rated at four to five spots below your pick, if that player fills a position of need. Should they take one of the aforementioned linemen, the Chiefs could always say they found him to be of proper value at the spot. But trading down -- maybe between five to eight spots -- would remain their main goal should Jake Long not be there at five. Chiefs followers don't feel the team is ready to pay the financial premium required to sign a running back like Darren McFadden or a quarterback like Matt Ryan. They might be more inclined, then, to consider a premium defensive lineman such as Sedrick Ellis. Either way, as team president Carl Peterson noted when discussing the chances of a trade, "We've got to be prepared to take the fifth pick."

Pro Draft Scout-

I might also add OURLADS rating service where Clady graded out 9.42 while Otah (pre-workout) 9.12. to put that into perspective last years #5 overall pick was an OT named Levi Brown he graded out (by the same service) 9.25

Has anyone watched game film? I've watched them all & by far & away Clady is the best LT prospect in this draft he is so mobile & fluid, possess great footwork, hand placement with size & strength to match. Otah is a great developmental prospect but will never move in space like Ryan or extend blocks into the 2nd level.

badboy
04-11-2008, 09:20 AM
The Chiefs are preparing for the possibility, maybe even the likelihood, that they'll have to take their shot at the No. 5 draft spot rather than trade down. Now, drafting at No. 5 will be ideal should Kansas City find Michigan tackle Jake Long, the player they truly covet, available at that spot. But it's looking more unlikely that Long will last that long, and that means the Chiefs will be faced with several options. Their primary needs remain at offensive line, where they have only two proven starters returning in guard Brian Waters and tackle Damion McIntosh. After Long, there probably aren't any offensive linemen of true value at the fifth spot. Taking Boise State tackle Ryan Clady, Pittsburgh tackle Jeff Otah or even fast-rising guard/tackle Branden Albert at that spot would be a reach, but one the Chiefs may have to make out of need. Coach Herm Edwards has said that he doesn't consider it "a reach" to take a player rated at four to five spots below your pick, if that player fills a position of need. Should they take one of the aforementioned linemen, the Chiefs could always say they found him to be of proper value at the spot. But trading down -- maybe between five to eight spots -- would remain their main goal should Jake Long not be there at five. Chiefs followers don't feel the team is ready to pay the financial premium required to sign a running back like Darren McFadden or a quarterback like Matt Ryan. They might be more inclined, then, to consider a premium defensive lineman such as Sedrick Ellis. Either way, as team president Carl Peterson noted when discussing the chances of a trade, "We've got to be prepared to take the fifth pick."

Pro Draft Scout-

I might also add OURLADS rating service where Clady graded out 9.42 while Otah (pre-workout) 9.12. to put that into perspective last years #5 overall pick was an OT named Levi Brown he graded out (by the same service) 9.25

Has anyone watched game film? I've watched them all & by far & away Clady is the best LT prospect in this draft he is so mobile & fluid, possess great footwork, hand placement with size & strength to match. Otah is a great developmental prospect but will never move in space like Ryan or extend blocks into the 2nd level.I was able to watch Clady in one of the last games of the season and he wowed me for a big man. Seemed to go well to his left and also pushed his man back. Seemed more a power blocker than finess. Whoever signs him will not be disappointed imo.

LZ
04-11-2008, 02:51 PM
Clady stock has been falling because of a percieved "lack of passion for the game" and low IQ. Heard some scouts are saying he could even fall into the mid to late teens because of it. Cant remember where I heard it. Think it was on 1560 am. Lance?

The biggest issues with Clady are strength concerns and IQ. Also, some teams just don't think he's dominant in any one aspect of the game which has some teams dropping him. Otah is a more dominant run blocker than everyone other than Long which is one of the reasons he is rising. I got the Otah (potentially to KC) from an NFL guy who said they have had him in and were very excited to see his workout. He did well at his workout so I'm going with Otah at 5 and Albert wouldn't be completely out of the question either (although not as a long term guard).

Porky
04-11-2008, 03:08 PM
I think this is the time of year where teams and scouts start finding all the little problems to downgrade guys and they are looking for holes rather than seeing the good side, the things that made them rate so highly to begin with. It's kind of like if you first start dating a beautiful and smart girl, and you talk about how great she is, but after a few months you complain to your friend that she smacks her gum and has fuzz in her belly button. You've now missed the big picture that she is a 10 and a rhodes scholar, and are now nitpicking because you have way too much time on your hands.

In short, if Clady somehow drops to 18, the Texans should waste no time in sending up that card. It doesn't take much IQ to say to the big fella, see that guy over there, don't let him hit the QB got it?

nunusguy
04-11-2008, 03:23 PM
The biggest issues with Clady are strength concerns and IQ. Also, some teams just don't think he's dominant in any one aspect of the game which has some teams dropping him. Otah is a more dominant run blocker than everyone other than Long which is one of the reasons he is rising. I got the Otah (potentially to KC) from an NFL guy who said they have had him in and were very excited to see his workout. He did well at his workout so I'm going with Otah at 5 and Albert wouldn't be completely out of the question either (although not as a long term guard).
At #5 overall. I personally think the Chiefs may have the best pick in the
Draft. They will be able to get a front-line player who will help them immediately. He won't be cheap at 5, but not near the cap pop that the first 4 picks will have. That also makes the pick more marketable if they want to trade back.
But it seems that if the Chiefs are that sold on Otah, their pick because of its marketablility should allow them to move back and still get Otah. I like Otah, but 5 would be overpaying and nobody else probably values him that highly ?