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kastofsna
02-21-2008, 02:00 AM
per draft daddy
"One of our inside sources in Indianapolis has told us the Miami Dolphins, Atlanta Falcons, Houston Texans and Oakland Raiders are showing serious interest in former Vanderbilt tackle Chris Williams.... Per the source, Williams is a likely 2nd round pick, at this point, but we think the intelligent (31 wonderlic), hard-working and nimble offensive tackle is a first round caliber athlete. Sort of a modern day Mark May, who will play and excel for a long time in the NFL."

beerlover
02-21-2008, 04:53 AM
per draft daddy

"One of our inside sources in Indianapolis has told us the Miami Dolphins, Atlanta Falcons, Houston Texans and Oakland Raiders are showing serious interest in former Vanderbilt tackle Chris Williams.... Per the source, Williams is a likely 2nd round pick, at this point, but we think the intelligent (31 wonderlic), hard-working and nimble offensive tackle is a first round caliber athlete. Sort of a modern day Mark May, who will play and excel for a long time in the NFL."


congrats on first serious rumor.....Miami, Oakland & Atlanta not targeting Jake Long :hmmm: I'm thinking now which one would I prefer to trade down with :thinking:

badboy
02-21-2008, 01:39 PM
congrats on first serious rumor.....Miami, Oakland & Atlanta not targeting Jake Long :hmmm: I'm thinking now which one would I prefer to trade down with :thinking:Atlanta's twos?

Lucky
02-21-2008, 01:58 PM
Atlanta's twos?
I think it is extremely unlikely that the Falcons attempt to trade up with their two 2nd round draft choices. Let me explain:

One, the Falcons are a terrible team. They aren't one player away from being good. They aren't even two players from being good. Terrible teams are more likely to amass draft picks, rather than trade them away.

Two, the Falcons just released several veterans. More could be cut loose. These players will need to be replaced, and the easiest method of re-stocking is through the draft. They need as many draft choices as they can get.

Three, the Falcons recently hired Tom Dimitroff as their GM. Dimitroff has schooled under Bill Belichick and Scott Pioli for the past 6 years as the Patriots director of college scouting. And the Patriots are known for trading back and acquiring additional picks. Not moving up by packaging picks. I expect Dimitroff will have a similar philosophy in Atlanta.

P.S. FWIW, I expect Williams to go to either Denver, Chicago, or Detroit in the 1st round. Before the Texans get a chance to draft or trade away his rights.

beerlover
02-21-2008, 02:06 PM
I think it is extremely unlikely that the Falcons attempt to trade up with their two 2nd round draft choices. Let me explain:

One, the Falcons are a terrible team. They aren't one player away from being good. They aren't even two players from being good. Terrible teams are more likely to amass draft picks, rather than trade them away.

Two, the Falcons just released several veterans. More could be cut loose. These players will need to be replaced, and the easiest method of re-stocking is through the draft. They need as many draft choices as they can get.

Three, the Falcons recently hired Tom Dimitroff as their GM. Dimitroff has schooled under Bill Belichick and Scott Pioli for the past 6 years as the Patriots director of college scouting. And the Patriots are known for trading back and acquiring additional picks. Not moving up by packaging picks. I expect Dimitroff will have a similar philosophy in Atlanta.


good stuff Lucky, I agree so its between Miami & Oakland. of those two which would be the more likely?

kastofsna
02-21-2008, 02:11 PM
Houston may not trade down, they might just take him there at 18.

Lucky
02-21-2008, 02:14 PM
good stuff Lucky, I agree so its between Miami & Oakland. of those two which would be the more likely?
I can make the same case for Miami that I did for the Falcons. They're certain to look for as many draft picks as possible. And I would never try to get into the mind of Al Davis. Too spooky. Besides, I don't think Chris Williams is available at #18.

ChampionTexan
02-21-2008, 02:18 PM
I agree that he's unlikely to be there at #18, but if he were, I would actually be disappointed if the Texans traded down and passed him up.

beerlover
02-21-2008, 02:39 PM
I can make the same case for Miami that I did for the Falcons. They're certain to look for as many draft picks as possible. And I would never try to get into the mind of Al Davis. Too spooky. Besides, I don't think Chris Williams is available at #18.

settled I'll take spooky over tuna. actually he might be thinking he could get over on the Texans more easily since he did it once before in the Bucannon trade :brickwall:

scenero 1 - trade Nnamdi Asomugha (franchised) for Houstons #1 pick (#18).

scenero 2 - trade 2nd (34th-560) + next years 2nd (should be around same number, maybe some improvement on their part guesstimate (42nd-480) a chance your willing to take because there is some added value with the Texans 18th pick worth 900 points.

in reality this is why its so hard to do trades. I beleive they do the coin flip for picks tomorrow @ the combine this will deceide the order between Atlanta, Oakland & KC. Big Al might just go nuts if he loses the coin toss, missing on McFadden (won't be know for sure until draft day process begins) takes DT Sedric Ellis @ #5 then wants OT Chris Williams #18.

badboy
02-21-2008, 03:20 PM
I think it is extremely unlikely that the Falcons attempt to trade up with their two 2nd round draft choices. Let me explain:

One, the Falcons are a terrible team. They aren't one player away from being good. They aren't even two players from being good. Terrible teams are more likely to amass draft picks, rather than trade them away.

Two, the Falcons just released several veterans. More could be cut loose. These players will need to be replaced, and the easiest method of re-stocking is through the draft. They need as many draft choices as they can get.

Three, the Falcons recently hired Tom Dimitroff as their GM. Dimitroff has schooled under Bill Belichick and Scott Pioli for the past 6 years as the Patriots director of college scouting. And the Patriots are known for trading back and acquiring additional picks. Not moving up by packaging picks. I expect Dimitroff will have a similar philosophy in Atlanta.

P.S. FWIW, I expect Williams to go to either Denver, Chicago, or Detroit in the 1st round. Before the Texans get a chance to draft or trade away his rights.Yeah, I agree on the twos staying in Atlanta. I just do not see a trade out there I want for #18. A 2nd in 08 & 09 may be reasonable with Oakland, I'm just not sold on it especially if Stewart is there. I really, really like his speed combined with 235 lbs; that is a freight train with speed + he has handled the load in college. I would take chance or getting a LT and CB in later rounds.

#18 for Asomugha? Hmm. Need to think on that. I would want to see if Trufant or R. Gay could be had in FA first I think. If I knew I could get Forte in third and maybe T. Hill in fourth? You just don't know. Or Stewart @ #18, in 3rd you get T. Hill (you know you have a LT that might be gone in 4th) & in 4th maybe Trae Wiilaims if CB not in FA. Then you have a possible franchise RB an LT that should do well in ZBS under Gibbs and maybe lightning in a bottle twice in 4th.

steelbtexan
02-21-2008, 09:20 PM
I want DRC, Williams, or McKelvin @18

beerlover
02-21-2008, 11:15 PM
for the record I only want more draft picks not less :)

threetoedpete
02-22-2008, 12:10 AM
for the record I only want more draft picks not less :)

Well....everyone and I mean everyone is forcing a top fifteen tallent...Ryan into the top five... and say hotlanta does what I've been advocting since december...Takes McFaddin at the top instead of the 'top fifteen most ready in the class' QB; At eighteen they get their choice of the rest of the QBs or playmakers...or the o-lineman or the Dt from north carolina....or one of the CB/Dbs...presto change oh... two starters. There's scenario #1 lucky. I mean isn't that what San Deigo did a few drafts ago ? Took Ladanian and then Breese ?
Everyone has kinda forgot about/soured on Brohm.

BSofA04
02-22-2008, 12:20 AM
No wonder the Texans are looking at Williams...he's a big, athletic tackle. I really, really hope they give this athlete some serious consideration because he has all the tools to be a solid LT in the NFL. And, he's quick enough to play in the zone blocking scheme. Any multi-All SEC tackle is worth taking a hard look at.

IMHO, he's gong to be available when we pick at #18. Barring a spectacular/epic showing at the Combine, Jake Long and Ryan Clady will go ahead of him. That's really a no-brainer. However, this should be the year the Texans breakdown and draft an OT in the first round in order to keep Matt Schaub upright for a long time. More importantly, give Schaub more time in the pocket to operate. We have to upgrade if we're going to have a chance against the Colts, Titans and Jags d-line.

threetoedpete
02-22-2008, 12:21 AM
per draft daddy

Well pardon me if I don't start dancing yet...what McClain was hinting at yesterday...and I'm assuming someone has actually told him this and he is not guessing like the rest of us...If Stewart is there they will take the guy..

And from my tree, that will be the point in time you can start marking the begining of the end of Kubes Texan's most excellent adventure. Anything after the first two rounds at OLT is not just wild blind haug luck if they hit, it'll be a miracle. Basically they'll be paying some slob for two years to prove he isn't tallented enough to hold the edge on the left. Seth Wand II.

BSofA04
02-22-2008, 12:26 AM
per draft daddyQuote:
"One of our inside sources in Indianapolis has told us the Miami Dolphins, Atlanta Falcons, Houston Texans and Oakland Raiders are showing serious interest in former Vanderbilt tackle Chris Williams.... Per the source, Williams is a likely 2nd round pick, at this point, but we think the intelligent (31 wonderlic), hard-working and nimble offensive tackle is a first round caliber athlete. Sort of a modern day Mark May, who will play and excel for a long time in the NFL."

I'm actually afraid that Chicago, with their old tackles, will take Williams ahead of us at 14. Or if we traded down past Seattle, the Seahawks will consider taking him since they haven't found a suitable replacement since Hutchinson left. The guy's got talent, and other teams are starting to take notice that he won't be available in Rd. 2.

Errant Hothy
02-22-2008, 10:33 AM
Offical combine size is:
6'6" at 315 lbs

http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl

Goldensilence
02-22-2008, 10:36 AM
I'm actually afraid that Chicago, with their old tackles, will take Williams ahead of us at 14. Or if we traded down past Seattle, the Seahawks will consider taking him since they haven't found a suitable replacement since Hutchinson left. The guy's got talent, and other teams are starting to take notice that he won't be available in Rd. 2.

With Bernard Berrian and Muhammed hitting FA at least for right now. It's very possible they might go WR with their first pick. I mean who do they have that's a vertical threat? Their QB position is dicey too. They say they're committed with Grossman...but IMO only cause they have so much invested. Common sense to me says Grossman's run should be over. While the defense there needs to get healthy the offense needs an Overhaul.

With Wharton signed and Gross tagged I'n wondering where Carolina stands on what to do. I thought I saw Keyshawn exploring a return. Would the panthers still hold his rights? Delhomme's future is uncertain as well.

If we want a LT one will be there at 18 that fits our needs and wouldn't be a stretch.

badboy
02-22-2008, 10:58 AM
Well pardon me if I don't start dancing yet...what McClain was hinting at yesterday...and I'm assuming someone has actually told him this and he is not guessing like the rest of us...If Stewart is there they will take the guy..

And from my tree, that will be the point in time you can start marking the begining of the end of Kubes Texan's most excellent adventure. Anything after the first two rounds at OLT is not just wild blind haug luck if they hit, it'll be a miracle. Basically they'll be paying some slob for two years to prove he isn't tallented enough to hold the edge on the left. Seth Wand II.
How do you evaluate Texas LT Tony Hills in ZBS?
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=8769

More info on Williams
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=25827

badboy
02-22-2008, 11:08 AM
I found this helpful concerning Hills fracture of fibula
http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/9339/31206.html

Errant Hothy
02-22-2008, 11:39 AM
Strike that.

Maddict5
02-22-2008, 06:08 PM
And from my tree, that will be the point in time you can start marking the begining of the end of Kubes Texan's most excellent adventure.

im surprised he lasted this long... aren't you?

Mark it on your calenders. Gary Kubuiak lost this locker room Oct. the 11th 2007.

BSofA04
02-23-2008, 12:56 PM
I just caught the tail end of the individual drill for the offensive linemen. They setup two cones about 5 yards apart, with an o-lineman on one end and a defender on the other side. From a two-point stance, the object was to mirror the opponent while keeping your shoulders square and your knees bent. Williams was superb. Looked like a natural knee bender, we was able to stay in front of the defender despite his best attempt to juke Williams out of position.

On a side note, OG Donald Thomas from UConn looked good. Cody Wallace from A&M was very unimpressive. Despite this drill being non-contact, he managed to find himself 2.5 yards behind the line of scrimmage at one point. If there ever was a WTF moment, it was then.

CloakNNNdagger
02-23-2008, 01:36 PM
I found this helpful concerning Hills fracture of fibula
http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/9339/31206.html

Fibula fractures have virtually no long term functional implications following healing. Pain is the main debilitating factor during the healing phase.

dalemurphy
02-23-2008, 01:44 PM
Well pardon me if I don't start dancing yet...what McClain was hinting at yesterday...and I'm assuming someone has actually told him this and he is not guessing like the rest of us...If Stewart is there they will take the guy..

And from my tree, that will be the point in time you can start marking the begining of the end of Kubes Texan's most excellent adventure. Anything after the first two rounds at OLT is not just wild blind haug luck if they hit, it'll be a miracle. Basically they'll be paying some slob for two years to prove he isn't tallented enough to hold the edge on the left. Seth Wand II.

We hit on both Spencer and Winston in the third round two years ago. So, I don't agree with that.

TexansSeminole
02-23-2008, 01:44 PM
This guy only lifted 21 times.

dalemurphy
02-23-2008, 01:47 PM
Fibula fractures have virtually no long term functional implications following healing. Pain is the main debilitating factor during the healing phase.

C N D... If the fracture occurs low enough (in the ankle), can't that sometimes cause long term issues?

bah007
02-23-2008, 01:54 PM
C N D... If the fracture occurs low enough (in the ankle), can't that sometimes cause long term issues?

Only if its on the tibia I think. Not for sure tho.

threetoedpete
02-24-2008, 04:17 PM
We hit on both Spencer and Winston in the third round two years ago. So, I don't agree with that.
O.K. who do you project on the second day that will have a legtimate chance at beating out Salaam...in '09. I wanna see you post that one.

dalemurphy
02-24-2008, 04:23 PM
O.K. who do you project on the second day that will have a legtimate chance at beating out Salaam...in '09. I wanna see you post that one.


I have no clue! Of course, I also had nothing to do with projecting Spencer or Winston two years ago. My point is: the Texans understand their needs and if they don't draft a LT under the middle rounds, they may have cause. Secondly, they may know something about the guy they get in round 3 or 4- you know, something that you don't.

I think it's foolish for fans to demand a certain position to be drafted in a certain round. The reality is that good organizations make good decisions throughout the draft- and, they don't pigeon-hole themselves into reaching for a need instead of taking the BPA.

threetoedpete
02-24-2008, 11:07 PM
I have no clue! Of course, I also had nothing to do with projecting Spencer or Winston two years ago. My point is: the Texans understand their needs and if they don't draft a LT under the middle rounds, they may have cause. Secondly, they may know something about the guy they get in round 3 or 4- you know, something that you don't.

I think it's foolish for fans to demand a certain position to be drafted in a certain round. The reality is that good organizations make good decisions throughout the draft- and, they don't pigeon-hole themselves into reaching for a need instead of taking the BPA.

No what is foolish is patching for six years and always going for a cheap and quick fix(Salaam). If they are lucky enough to have a guy fall into their laps and pass on him once again, we deserve what we get. And so will Kubes and Smith.
I've been looking at them since they took Frye...and I'm telling you the guy is not out there. They don't adress it in the first two picksw..you can circle medicre for a while. I don't care who the QB and Rb are.

BSofA04
02-25-2008, 12:10 AM
This guy only lifted 21 times.

Clady, Williams, Richardson and Cousins all had sub-25 on the bench. Two of them were multi All-SEC. By comparison, Reggie Bush had 24 reps. But really, is there any question as to who is stronger? Williams had one of the better 40 times and was outstanding in his positional drills. His stock has only risen since the senior bowl.

beerlover
02-25-2008, 12:27 AM
we really don't know yet what the game plan will be, if nothing happens until draft day would that really surprise anyone? virtually every ***** FA has been franchised, the best of the rest will also be asking for more :money: (Green, Greenwood, Weaver & Wade come to mind) so do we really want to go this route? I hope the Texans remain attentive/patient, waiting for roster cuts etc...along with undrafted FA's signings instead. Seems like the curse of this franchise I know but now we at least have the people in place who can build this thing right :texflag:

beerlover
02-25-2008, 12:34 AM
the best lineman for the Texans is not even a LT or 1st rd. pick. He is Arizona State Center Mike Pollak who can also play guard if needed, natural fit for ZBS. solid mid 2nd rd. pick about where the Texans would have selected if not for the trade to Atlanta for Schaub :aggressive:

bah007
02-25-2008, 12:35 AM
the best lineman for the Texans is not even a LT or 1st rd. pick. He is Arizona State Center Mike Pollak who can also play guard if needed, natural fit for ZBS. solid mid 2nd rd. pick about where the Texans would have selected if not for the trade to Atlanta for Schaub :aggressive:

I've been waiting for Pollak's name to come up on this board.

If Justice weren't so good this guy would be getting some pretty good hype over here.

keyser
02-25-2008, 01:26 AM
I've been waiting for Pollak's name to come up on this board.

If Justice weren't so good this guy would be getting some pretty good hype over here.

Well, some places evidently now have him ahead of Justice, as the top center available. Seenfldraftscout.com (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/players.php?genpos=C&draftyear=2008&sortby=tsxpos&order=ASC). I think they base their ratings in part by weighting others' ratings. Based on his combine performance (good bench, 40, shuttle), I bet he'll go even higher in the 2nd than the pick Houston traded away. If we trade down into the 2nd, I would certainly love to see us pick up Pollak - I think C is nearly as big of an issue as LT for us.

Insideop
02-25-2008, 02:03 AM
the best lineman for the Texans is not even a LT or 1st rd. pick. He is Arizona State Center Mike Pollak who can also play guard if needed, natural fit for ZBS. solid mid 2nd rd. pick about where the Texans would have selected if not for the trade to Atlanta for Schaub :aggressive:

Yeah, Pollak had a very good combine. He's listed as 6'4", 299 lbs and finished in the top 10 for O-linemen in the 40, Bench Press, Broad Jump, 3 Cone Drill, and 20 yard Shuttle. He was also listed as an OT. Not sure why. I wonder if the Texans happen to get him if they would try to move him to LT. I know we let Flanagan and Hodgdon go, but we still have a recovering McKinney and White, along with Eslinger and Okobe (sp?)

Another ZB prospect that has done well at the Combine was Jeremy Zuttah. He's listed as 6'3", 295 lbs and he also finished in the top 10 for O-linemen in the 40, Bench Press,Verticle Jump, and 20 yd Shuttle. He had the best 40 yd Dash time of any O-lineman with a 4.99, and he had the 2nd best Bench Press (35) behind only Long. Zuttah was projected to go in the 6th round but I'm sure that will change with his performance at the Combine.

Both of these guys are a little short for OT, but if we draft either of them I'm sure Gibbs will find some place for them in the line. They are 2 to keep your eye on during the draft. JMHO!

PHAROAH
02-25-2008, 07:41 AM
I think that Chris Williams will be good but I don't think he will go until the 2nd round. Chris was solid but he didn't blow me away and with guys like Ryan Clady they will push him down because he is going to drop because of all of the CB's, DE's & Rb's that may go in round one there will be plenty of OL in the 2nd & 3rd Round. This might be the most talented RB class I have ever seen the Rb's put on a show at the combine.

b0ng
02-25-2008, 08:07 AM
No what is foolish is patching for six years and always going for a cheap and quick fix(Salaam). If they are lucky enough to have a guy fall into their laps and pass on him once again, we deserve what we get. And so will Kubes and Smith.
I've been looking at them since they took Frye...and I'm telling you the guy is not out there. They don't adress it in the first two picks..you can circle mediocre for a while. I don't care who the QB and Rb are.

You can't just force a position if the personnel isn't there to draft. If we reach on some project LT in the 1st round and he busts, then we'll be way worse than mediocre cause "WE JUST HAD TO HAVE A 1ST ROUND LT CAUSE THOSE ARE THE ONLY GOOD ONES".

Relax. If Kubiak and Smith have proven anything, it's that they know way more about who they are, and should, draft than you do. The fact that they looked like they hit on a great LT in the 3rd round should make you comfortable with where they draft our future tackles. Instead you want to wave your opinion around and declare that they are idiots if they don't do what you say.

Blake
02-25-2008, 09:43 AM
This guy only lifted 21 times.

Well lets hope if we draft him he doesnt get into a "Lift Off" with a defensive end.

I think the combine is nice to make sure that are 100% healthy, and nothing is hidden, but a players worth should be based on his body of work in each college game he played.

Then you can factor in things like upside, or whatever you like.