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ArlingtonTexan
02-18-2008, 09:30 PM
Per profootballtalk.com (please don't make this about the site, it is a rumor)

PATS OFFER DEAL TO THOMAS

Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that the Patriots have offered a contract to free-agent linebacker Zach Thomas, who was cut by the Dolphins last week.

Thomas and agent Drew Rosenhaus visited with the Patriots on Monday.

Next up? A visit to New Orleans. The Cowboys, Texans, Bills, and Jets also are interested in acquiring Thomas.

swisher
02-18-2008, 09:39 PM
I don't know what kind of role he would play other than maybe a mentor to Demeco.

I went to Tech while Thomas played there so it would be great to see the guy in our uniform, and I bet he ends up being a great coach.

I just don't see him wanting to come here if he can start in the middle somewhere else, or if he just signs with the Cowboys or Patriots to get a ring.

kiwitexansfan
02-18-2008, 09:39 PM
Interesting find.

Lets start another round of the should we move Ryans outside debate.

Cracks me up that the Patriots approach to solving their aging LB issues is to pursue an aging LB.

aj.
02-18-2008, 09:41 PM
Probably more than rumor. It's also on nfl.com.

GuerillaBlack
02-18-2008, 09:43 PM
Do we need him? Isn't he like 31 years old?

TheRealJoker
02-18-2008, 09:57 PM
DeMeco would be great anywhere in our LB core. I support getting Thomas, it never hurts when you can get one of the best players at his position on your team.

Texans_Chick
02-18-2008, 10:07 PM
I'm guessing he is talking to us and the Cowboys because of the Texas connection.

Also, nice to retire to Texas because of the no state income tax thingy.

kiwitexansfan
02-18-2008, 10:08 PM
DeMeco would be great anywhere in our LB core. I support getting Thomas, it never hurts when you can get one of the best players at his position on your team.

How much does he left?? When your the worst team in football I don't think you would be releasing one of the best players in his position.

Where is Katsofna for his definitive opinion on a Dolphins player??

WesmanTexanfan
02-18-2008, 10:33 PM
BOOOOO Drew Rosenhaus!!!....

BSofA04
02-18-2008, 10:34 PM
Zach Thomas being cut was probably a cap move as well as giving some younger players a chance to play. Also, it wouldn't surprise me if the Tuna was just cleaning house and wanted to start new.

CloakNNNdagger
02-18-2008, 10:48 PM
Zach Thomas being cut was probably a cap move as well as giving some younger players a chance to play. Also, it wouldn't surprise me if the Tuna was just cleaning house and wanted to start new.

Thomas has renegotiated his salary at least 3 times in the past to meet the Fins' needs. The Fins will be clearing approximately 6 million with this move. I don't remember where, but I remember reading on a Fins' board that the Pats have already interviewed him and made him an offer which he left on the table.

TEXANRED
02-18-2008, 10:52 PM
Interesting find.

Lets start another round of the should we move Ryans outside debate.

Cracks me up that the Patriots approach to solving their aging LB issues is to pursue an aging LB.

Don't think about it as a debate, think about it as an opportunity to improve our football team.

Zach is not an upgrade at MLB, but Ryans is an upgrade at OLB. Zach, before going on IR last year was averaging more than 10 tackles a game.(Which is what he has done his entire career.)

I am all for Picking up Zach, sliding Ryans over to WLB and seeing what Diles has got to offer at SLB.

It could not hurt to have two tackling machines when you playing MJD, VY, and Addia twice a year.

CloakNNNdagger
02-18-2008, 10:55 PM
Here's the link. (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/02/18/patriots-are-serious-about-zach-thomas-offer-him-contract-befor/)

GuerillaBlack
02-18-2008, 11:17 PM
He is 34 years old. Maybe he can pull a Junior Seau.

WesmanTexanfan
02-18-2008, 11:23 PM
I say PLAY ZACH DILES!!!!

AnthonyE
02-18-2008, 11:59 PM
Don't think about it as a debate, think about it as an opportunity to improve our football team.

Zach is not an upgrade at MLB, but Ryans is an upgrade at OLB. Zach, before going on IR last year was averaging more than 10 tackles a game.(Which is what he has done his entire career.)

I am all for Picking up Zach, sliding Ryans over to WLB and seeing what Diles has got to offer at SLB.

It could not hurt to have two tackling machines when you playing MJD, VY, and Addia twice a year.

I agree with you, but we're probably in the minority on this.

It's not like Ryans' productivity would deminish or something. He's originally a OLB anyway. Zach is still a tackling machine like DeMeco, and I think having both would be dynomite.

Second Honeymoon
02-19-2008, 12:26 AM
I agree with you, but we're probably in the minority on this.

It's not like Ryans' productivity would deminish or something. He's originally a OLB anyway. Zach is still a tackling machine like DeMeco, and I think having both would be dynomite.

I would have no problem moving Ryans around as long as he didn't have a problem with it. I think he would relish it and then Thomas could handle the signals/playcalls role. Could free up Ryans imho. If it doesn't work, what did we really lose? It's not like we are going to ruin Ryans because we try to use him in a different role. It's still football and Thomas could be invigorated by a move. The Pats dont make a habit of going after bad players so that should tell you all you need to know that they are interested.

bckey
02-19-2008, 12:46 AM
I don't want to see the Texans spend big money on Zach Thomas. No matter how you spin it 34 is old for a LB. If he came cheap then I would be for it but I don't think that will be the case.

Second Honeymoon
02-19-2008, 12:55 AM
I don't want to see the Texans spend big money on Zach Thomas. No matter how you spin it 34 is old for a LB. If he came cheap then I would be for it but I don't think that will be the case.

it will be on the cheap if he comes. no doubt.

JayCee
02-19-2008, 01:17 AM
Would love Zach Thomas to come here :doot:

Yeah he's old but who cares - it's obviously going to be a stop gap signing.

painekiller
02-19-2008, 05:45 AM
The only two reasons ZT would come to Houston. One he is from Texas, two and no one else is caught this, Richard Smith was his coach a few years ago, sorry Second Honeymoon.

Sounds like Drew Rosenhaus trying to get the Pats to up the offer...

Lucky
02-19-2008, 08:41 AM
The only two reasons ZT would come to Houston. One he is from Texas, two and no one else is caught this, Richard Smith was his coach a few years ago, sorry Second Honeymoon.

Sounds like Drew Rosenhaus trying to get the Pats to up the offer...
Exactly.

If the Texans are serious about moving Diles to OLB, then the Texans would need a backup MLB. Thomas would fill that role, and maybe play in the nickel. Why would Thomas take that when a starting job would be available? He's going to New England.

SheTexan
02-19-2008, 09:09 AM
What's going on in Miami?? One Miami LB looking for a new home in the NFL, another looking to become a star on the dance floor. Jason Taylor will join Jerry Rice and Emmitt Smith as pro football players who want to strut their stuff on Dancing with the Stars. Jerry placed second a few years back and Emmitt won the contest. Guess we'll see what Jason can do with his pro-bowl talents!:)

Goldensilence
02-19-2008, 09:14 AM
What's going on in Miami?? One Miami LB looking for a new home in the NFL, another looking to become a star on the dance floor. Jason Taylor will join Jerry Rice and Emmitt Smith as pro football players who want to strut their stuff on Dancing with the Stars. Jerry placed second a few years back and Emmitt won the contest. Guess we'll see what Jason can do with his pro-bowl talents!:)

:challenge

Mentioning Dancing with the stars.

JK She.

infantrycak
02-19-2008, 09:25 AM
Zach, before going on IR last year was averaging more than 10 tackles a game.(Which is what he has done his entire career.)

Jay Foreman was leading the league in tackles for three quarters of 2003, but the stats didn't show he was making the tackles 5 yards down the field. Zach also gets his stats padded by vet respect--he can be the 4th guy to jump on the pile and he gets credited with an assist. Zach had more assists in 2006 than DeMeco has in his two years in the league. Compare with DeMeco's solo numbers and there is no comparison.

HOU-TEX
02-19-2008, 09:58 AM
Jay Foreman was leading the league in tackles for three quarters of 2003, but the stats didn't show he was making the tackles 5 yards down the field. Zach also gets his stats padded by vet respect--he can be the 4th guy to jump on the pile and he gets credited with an assist. Zach had more assists in 2006 than DeMeco has in his two years in the league. Compare with DeMeco's solo numbers and there is no comparison.

I agree with you. But honestly, he'd still be an upgrade to our LB corps if D-Ryans is ok with the move outside. Having said that, I highly doubt he'll come here anyways. :)

Dallas_Texan
02-19-2008, 10:36 AM
I agree with you, but we're probably in the minority on this.

It's not like Ryans' productivity would deminish or something. He's originally a OLB anyway. Zach is still a tackling machine like DeMeco, and I think having both would be dynomite.

I am 100% for this. Ryans, Thomas, Diles would be one helluva LB corp. Having Diles develop next to Zach Thomas and Demeco Ryans....yeah, that would be horrible. He's MORE than worth the money, and I'm sorry, but he has a good 2 years left in him. That would be a great day for fans if we sign Zach Thomas to our team and let him retire in Texas. :d:

digitalswim
02-19-2008, 10:44 AM
He was pretty adamant on Sirius NFL radio that he had zero desire to go to a losing/rebuilding franchise. He clearly stated that he is only interested in playoff teams. He said last year left a bad taste in his mouth and that he didnt want to go out like that.

I can see the rumor springing up since he is from Texas but other than that it doesnt seem to hold much water.

GP
02-19-2008, 10:47 AM
Houston is not mentioned as being one of his stops on his find-a-new-team tour.

Here's the Zach Looks For a New Team (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3252668) link.

Grams
02-19-2008, 11:54 AM
It is very hard to be a tackling machine - even assists - when you are sitting on the sidelines with a severe concussion. I believe he had 2 last year. One is a car accidient and one on the field.Don't think he even played in very many games last year.

How long will he be able to make any sort of tackles before he gets another?

BigBull17
02-19-2008, 12:39 PM
He was pretty adamant on Sirius NFL radio that he had zero desire to go to a losing/rebuilding franchise. He clearly stated that he is only interested in playoff teams. He said last year left a bad taste in his mouth and that he didnt want to go out like that.

I can see the rumor springing up since he is from Texas but other than that it doesnt seem to hold much water.

We arent really a losing/rebuilding team. We are pretty close to play offs. It will be the Pats, but I wouldnt rule us out.

Vinny
02-19-2008, 12:47 PM
We arent really a losing/rebuilding team. We are pretty close to play offs. It will be the Pats, but I wouldnt rule us out.

we are clearly a building team....we may even be considered rebuilding if you call the Casserly "build" a "build". We've never had a winning record so we really aren't a "winning" team.

HoustonFrog
02-19-2008, 01:48 PM
Houston is not mentioned as being one of his stops on his find-a-new-team tour.

Here's the Zach Looks For a New Team (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3252668) link.

Just saw that..Pats...

El Amigo Invisible
02-19-2008, 02:02 PM
Just saw that..Pats...

Pats offered him a contract.:specnatz:

Joe Texan
02-19-2008, 02:05 PM
Cowboys or Patriots to get a ring.


Dude you will be waitng a while to get a ring with either of these teams

Texans34Life
02-19-2008, 02:10 PM
If he was available 2-3 years ago, I would definitely go after him. He is still in his prime, but this team is looking to stay young. I would definitely give Diles a chance to prove he can play w/ the 1st unit.

ChampionTexan
02-19-2008, 02:44 PM
What's the difference between this and the Ahman Green signing beyond the facts that:

1. The injury is a head instead of a knee injury (not better - just different)
2. He would represent only 1/3 of our LB corp not 100% of our starting RB's
3. He would cost less, so the waste of cap space would be limited


We gripe and moan about guys like Green and Boselli, and then jump all over guys like this (at least some of us do).

Hervoyel
02-19-2008, 03:00 PM
Sometimes the best thing you can do is just say "Thanks but no thanks" and that's what I believe the Texans should do here. We've only been around for 6 years but in that short time we've had a chance to be both "too young" and "too old" at times. We should know enough not to pay stupid money to aging names but we signed Ahman Green last year and thought we'd accomplished something. We did actually. We managed to blow what little money we had to spend for free agents on a guy who gave us less than Ron Dayne ever has. That was impressive (albeit in the wrong direction).

Zach Thomas was a heck of a player and may have a year or two left in him but we shouldn't be buying year-or-two band-aids at this point. We should be buying pieces that will be here for 5-10 years.

You ice the cake with guys like this but they aren't what you make it out of.

Vinny
02-19-2008, 04:04 PM
If he was available 2-3 years ago, I would definitely go after him. He is still in his prime, but this team is looking to stay young. I would definitely give Diles a chance to prove he can play w/ the 1st unit.

What's the difference between this and the Ahman Green signing beyond the facts that:

1. The injury is a head instead of a knee injury (not better - just different)
2. He would represent only 1/3 of our LB corp not 100% of our starting RB's
3. He would cost less, so the waste of cap space would be limited


We gripe and moan about guys like Green and Boselli, and then jump all over guys like this (at least some of us do).normal teams sign older players. It's not like "staying young" wins in the NFL. I don't think age is much consideration as much as can he play up to the level of the contract we signed him to? That said, I'm not real gung-ho about him at this stage of his career....although I wouldn't mind moving Ryans to the will if we had a mlb who could play at a high level.

El Tejano
02-19-2008, 04:48 PM
ZT is pretty good at blitzing. I know we want to do more of that this year.

Grams
02-19-2008, 04:57 PM
How many games did Z Thomas actually play in last year?

Thought he was out the beginning of the year with a concussion from a car accident and out most of the second half of the season with another concussion from playing.

I sure don't want the Texans throwing $$$ after someone who is sitting on the bench (again).

This is not the old Zach Thomas from a couple of years ago, this is an older, more injured, slower - did I say more injured????
player that we don't ned to be signing, unless it is to coach the younger guys/

CloakNNNdagger
02-19-2008, 10:04 PM
How many games did Z Thomas actually play in last year?

Thought he was out the beginning of the year with a concussion from a car accident and out most of the second half of the season with another concussion from playing.

I sure don't want the Texans throwing $$$ after someone who is sitting on the bench (again).

This is not the old Zach Thomas from a couple of years ago, this is an older, more injured, slower - did I say more injured????
player that we don't ned to be signing, unless it is to coach the younger guys/


5 games.......

Second Honeymoon
02-19-2008, 10:13 PM
Jay Foreman was leading the league in tackles for three quarters of 2003, but the stats didn't show he was making the tackles 5 yards down the field. Zach also gets his stats padded by vet respect--he can be the 4th guy to jump on the pile and he gets credited with an assist. Zach had more assists in 2006 than DeMeco has in his two years in the league. Compare with DeMeco's solo numbers and there is no comparison.

no doubt about that, icak. stats can never be taken at face value, just like completion%. that being said, i wouldn't have a problem with us picking him up on the cheap though.

Mr. White
02-20-2008, 07:59 AM
I never thought there was even a remote possibility that the Texans would sign Zach Thomas. Then I heard that Shawn Barber got released.

Can't help but wonder if there's a connection....

nunusguy
02-20-2008, 09:02 AM
I am all for Picking up Zach, sliding Ryans over to WLB

DeMeco just played a game in Honolulu as the starter at MLB for the AFC. Do
you really want to experiment/tamper with that, i.e. don't fix it if it ain't broke ? And since ZT probably can't play on the outside and don't think he's ready to be a reserve either, it's looking like he's just not much of a fit here.

BigBull17
02-20-2008, 10:05 AM
DeMeco just played a game in Honolulu as the starter at MLB for the AFC. Do
you really want to experiment/tamper with that, i.e. don't fix it if it ain't broke ? And since ZT probably can't play on the outside and don't think he's ready to be a reserve either, it's looking like he's just not much of a fit here.

And we passed up Patrick freakin Willis because we didnt want to move Demeco. If we wouldnt move him for Willis, I will be pissed if we move him for ZT. I wouldnt mind ZT as a back up MLB.

Vinny
02-20-2008, 10:13 AM
And we passed up Patrick freakin Willis because we didnt want to move Demeco. If we wouldnt move him for Willis, I will be pissed if we move him for ZT. I wouldnt mind ZT as a back up MLB.

I don't think the Texans ever said that was the "reason" they passed Willis. Bottom line is that Ryans has some unique blitzing abilities and has incredible instinct and body control. He would probably be a player much like Buc's Derrick Brooks at the WLB if moved there. Frankly, it's harder to find a great will linebacker than it is to find a great mlb since you don't need to have Ryans vast skillset to be an effective mlb.

Ole Miss Texan
02-20-2008, 10:36 AM
I thought I heard that Amobi was the highest rated defensive player in the whole draft for the Texans. Wonder if he was already selected if Patrick Willis would have been the pick?

Demeco is very talented. I'll let the coaches do what the want with the LB's with hopes it's the right call. Whether that is moving Demeco outside or keeping him inside.

I look at the Linebacking corps as a whole, as a unit. So the saying 'if it aint broke, don't fix it' doesn't really apply. Sure the Mike position is rock solid but both the will and the sam are weak.

I don't want to get into another endless debate about the possibility of moving Demeco outside but I'd rather make a case for that than Dunta to Free Safety.

nunusguy
02-20-2008, 10:47 AM
I thought I heard that Amobi was the highest rated defensive player in the whole draft for the Texans. Wonder if he was already selected if Patrick Willis would have been the pick?

Demeco is very talented. I'll let the coaches do what the want with the LB's with hopes it's the right call. Whether that is moving Demeco outside or keeping him inside.

I look at the Linebacking corps as a whole, as a unit. So the saying 'if it aint broke, don't fix it' doesn't really apply. Sure the Mike position is rock solid but both the will and the sam are weak.

I don't want to get into another endless debate about the possibility of moving Demeco outside but I'd rather make a case for that than Dunta to Free Safety.
Generally speaking, elite DLineman (& DBacks for that matter) are more highly valued than elite LBs. Any doubts, just review Draft history &/or FA signings.

infantrycak
02-20-2008, 11:00 AM
Generally speaking, elite DLineman (& DBacks for that matter) are more highly valued than elite LBs. Any doubts, just review Draft history &/or FA signings.

Franchise numbers give some idea of relative value:

CB $9.4 mil (somewhat artificially inflated by Clements receiving a $10 mil roster bonus rather than signing bonus--he gets another one this year)
DE $8.8 mil
LB $8.0 mil
DT $6.4 mil

Ole Miss Texan
02-20-2008, 11:05 AM
Generally speaking, elite DLineman (& DBacks for that matter) are more highly valued than elite LBs. Any doubts, just review Draft history &/or FA signings.

I would agree...

El Amigo Invisible
02-20-2008, 11:12 AM
steer clear of ZT

TexanAddict
02-20-2008, 12:02 PM
I doubt if Thomas was visiting Chicago there would be anyone suggesting Urlacher move outside to make room for him. Ryans is establishing himself as a leader of our defense and one of the next great MLBs of the league. Why would anyone want to move him for a player that at best won't be on the team in two years, and more than likely won't make it two games without sustaining another injury? Ryans should be the Texans MLB for the next decade, not pushed aside by a stop gap player.

TEXANS84
02-20-2008, 12:10 PM
Texans | Z. Thomas to visit team
Tue, 19 Feb 2008 20:15:36 -0800

John McClain, of the Houston Chronicle, reports free agent LB Zach Thomas (Dolphins) is expected to visit the Houston Texans next week.

beerlover
02-20-2008, 12:20 PM
I would rather see the Texans lock up DeMeco to a long term multi-million dollar contract. be proactive, not reactive :)

Vinny
02-20-2008, 12:35 PM
I doubt if Thomas was visiting Chicago there would be anyone suggesting Urlacher move outside to make room for him. Ryans is establishing himself as a leader of our defense and one of the next great MLBs of the league. Why would anyone want to move him for a player that at best won't be on the team in two years, and more than likely won't make it two games without sustaining another injury? Ryans should be the Texans MLB for the next decade, not pushed aside by a stop gap player.Urlacher has a totally different bodytype than Ryans and isn't as good a blitzer. Ryans should be moved all around in different packages anyway....if not, they are wasting his skillset. I'd keep Urlacher in the middle myself.

nunusguy
02-20-2008, 01:16 PM
Franchise numbers give some idea of relative value:

CB $9.4 mil (somewhat artificially inflated by Clements receiving a $10 mil roster bonus rather than signing bonus--he gets another one this year)
DE $8.8 mil
LB $8.0 mil
DT $6.4 mil

I'm not questioning the veracity of Infantrycaks stats, but they are
probably misleading. The thing is if they include FA money for 3-4 OLBs, which tend to have an upward skew effect on aggregate LB bonus money, they overstate the value of LBs to non 3-4 teams like the Texans, which are
of course a 4-3 team.
I think if those 3-4 OLB numbers were backed-out we'd see a more dramatic
disparity between LB FA money and FA money for non-LBs who play in 4-3s.

Vinny
02-20-2008, 01:24 PM
I'm not questioning the veracity of Infantrycaks stats, but they are
probably misleading. The thing is if they include FA money for 3-4 OLBs, which tend to have an upward skew effect on aggregate LB bonus money, they overstate the value of LBs to non 3-4 teams like the Texans, which are
of course a 4-3 team.
I think if those 3-4 OLB numbers were backed-out we'd see a more dramatic
disparity between LB FA money and FA money for non-LBs who play in 4-3s.
basically edge rushers get paid more than the other front 7 players. Edge rushers are either DE's or OLB's, depending on your system. A 4-3 OLB isn't going to be an edge rusher when you have two dedicated ends, but a 3-4 OLB does the same job a 4-3 end does...hence the hike in money.

Ole Miss Texan
02-20-2008, 01:42 PM
Urlacher has a totally different bodytype than Ryans and isn't as good a blitzer. Ryans should be moved all around in different packages anyway....if not, they are wasting his skillset. I'd keep Urlacher in the middle myself.

I would love to see us move Demeco around a lot more. Not in the straight sense of olb vs. mlb but in different packages, on different downs, etc to confuse the opposing offense. I think this will happen more and more when we are more comfortable with our players as a whole on Defense.

I'd keep Urlacher in the middle as well. Demeco is more versatile, imo. Urlacher is also close to 260lbs where as Demeco is not even 240lbs.

infantrycak
02-20-2008, 01:57 PM
I'm not questioning the veracity of Infantrycaks stats, but they are
probably misleading. The thing is if they include FA money for 3-4 OLBs, which tend to have an upward skew effect on aggregate LB bonus money, they overstate the value of LBs to non 3-4 teams like the Texans, which are
of course a 4-3 team.
I think if those 3-4 OLB numbers were backed-out we'd see a more dramatic
disparity between LB FA money and FA money for non-LBs who play in 4-3s.

basically edge rushers get paid more than the other front 7 players. Edge rushers are either DE's or OLB's, depending on your system. A 4-3 OLB isn't going to be an edge rusher when you have two dedicated ends, but a 3-4 OLB does the same job a 4-3 end does...hence the hike in money.

Well if y'all find a list of who is in the top 5 for LB's then we can examine it further.

Looking over the 3-4 teams, I am not seeing the expensive guys skewing the number this year. Vrabel is cheap as was Bruschi. Lots of them are under rookie contracts and so still cheap--Merriman, Ware, Harrison, Suggs. Who are the expensive 3-4 OLB's?

The two biggest LB contracts I am aware of are Urlacher (2003 contract 6 years $56.5 mil) and Peterson (2006 contract 7 years $54 mil) and they are both 4-3 guys. Adalius Thomas as a decent contract (2007 5 year $35 mil contract) but he is intended to play ILB and isn't pushing the franchise number.

GP
02-20-2008, 05:00 PM
Texans | Z. Thomas to visit team
Tue, 19 Feb 2008 20:15:36 -0800

John McClain, of the Houston Chronicle, reports free agent LB Zach Thomas (Dolphins) is expected to visit the Houston Texans next week.

TRANSLATION:

Zach leaves the Pats offer on the table, travels to Houston and uses us to drive up his offer from the Pats or other teams (Cowboys, for example).

Hey, it worked for Orlando Pace. I don't even think the guy had to get on the plane to come here, correct? I am just p-r-a-y-i-n-g that he's using us to drive up the other offers.

I'll be verrrrrry upset if we sign this guy. He said he would only entertain offers from playoff teams or those who could seriously challenge for a title. He hit his head pretty hard to throw us into his group of teams to look at.

(Sigh) I hate this team so badly some times...what are we even doing looking at another free agent has-been? Ahman Green wasn't enough of a failure, so we gotta' go and potentially compound the same problem? Pass me the tums.

dtran04
02-20-2008, 06:22 PM
So essentially, some people think the Texans are too good for Zach Thomas while the Patriots aren't. :)

Lucky
02-20-2008, 06:41 PM
So essentially, some people think the Texans are too good for Zach Thomas while the Patriots aren't. :)
Some people thought the Dolphins were too good for Zach Thomas.

Kaiser Toro
02-20-2008, 07:17 PM
Forget contracts, playing time, injuries, etc., as it stands on its own, Zach Thomas visiting us has some extrinsic value to our franchise.

AnthonyE
02-20-2008, 07:46 PM
DeMeco just played a game in Honolulu as the starter at MLB for the AFC. Do
you really want to experiment/tamper with that, i.e. don't fix it if it ain't broke ? And since ZT probably can't play on the outside and don't think he's ready to be a reserve either, it's looking like he's just not much of a fit here.

No experiment needed. DeMeco was drafted as an OLB.

And I'm pretty sure our LB corp is broke. We just waived one of our OLB and I'd say it's a Top-4 need.

bah007
02-20-2008, 08:20 PM
No experiment needed. DeMeco was drafted as an OLB.

And I'm pretty sure our LB corp is broke. We just waived one of our OLB and I'd say it's a Top-4 need.

Looks to me like DeMeco was drafted to play MLB.

Just cuz he played outside in college doesn't mean that is what he is destined for in the NFL.

Just ask the hundreds of players that have changed positions going from college to the pros.

Why move a Pro Bowler to another spot?

I, for one, want our best tackler in the middle of the defense. And that would be Ryans.

Ole Miss Texan
02-20-2008, 08:39 PM
If I remember correctly, I thought Demeco wasn't deemed a starting spot at first but tried out at all 3 LB spots during camp. I always felt he wasn't going to be on the outside but that he really did great at MLB and kind of surprised some people.

I could easily be wrong but that's the way I remember it. On top of that, I think the coaches wanted to have their 3 best Linebackers out there and there really wasn't a better option in the middle.

I think the original experiment turned out exceptional.

infantrycak
02-20-2008, 08:53 PM
If I remember correctly, I thought Demeco wasn't deemed a starting spot at first but tried out at all 3 LB spots during camp. I always felt he wasn't going to be on the outside but that he really did great at MLB and kind of surprised some people.

I could easily be wrong but that's the way I remember it. On top of that, I think the coaches wanted to have their 3 best Linebackers out there and there really wasn't a better option in the middle.

I think the original experiment turned out exceptional.

Basically the way I remember it except I don't think he was tried at SLB. He came into OTA's and immediately was backing up WLB and MLB. Kubiak almost immediately started talking about getting the best three LB's on the field and then Cowart went down and Ryans took over with everyone noting how good he was not only at his play responsibilities but as a leader and calling plays for the LB corp.

The leadership/playcalling part is something I think people are underrating. Ryans is the guy on D who would get the green dot helmet and I think the team expects to see him in that position.

ObsiWan
02-20-2008, 09:57 PM
So essentially, some people think the Texans are too good for Zach Thomas while the Patriots aren't. :)

Interesting thought.
If Belicheat thinks Zack has something left maybe he does...
I doubt he comes here though because I can't see us paying him 5-6 mil/yr for a couple of years
and the concussion thing bugs me too. Like one of the guest hosts on NFLN said, "LB + concussions" is not a good combination."

Texans Horror
02-21-2008, 10:26 AM
Junior Seau was supposed to be washed up, too, IIRC. That was years ago, and he's still starting for NE. I think Zach is the type of guy who could bring a lot to the team, and it's just the type of player/signing the Texans need to get to the next level of play.

Realistically, I don't know that the Texans could afford him, but that's a different discussion altogether.

As to the question of why Zach would lump the Texans in with the other teams - hey, people are standing up and taking notice of what's going on in Houston. The times are changing.

AnthonyE
02-21-2008, 11:20 AM
Looks to me like DeMeco was drafted to play MLB.

Just cuz he played outside in college doesn't mean that is what he is destined for in the NFL.

Just ask the hundreds of players that have changed positions going from college to the pros.

Why move a Pro Bowler to another spot?

I, for one, want our best tackler in the middle of the defense. And that would be Ryans.

He wasn't drafted to play MLB. The coaches didn't know where he was going to play yet.

He was, however, drafted AS a OLB. He didn't play MLB in college, so there was no reason to say he was drafted as an MLB.

And the best tackler thing? Zach Thomas has been in the top 5 in tackles for 6 of the last 7 seasons.

badboy
02-21-2008, 11:22 AM
Junior Seau was supposed to be washed up, too, IIRC. That was years ago, and he's still starting for NE. I think Zach is the type of guy who could bring a lot to the team, and it's just the type of player/signing the Texans need to get to the next level of play.

Realistically, I don't know that the Texans could afford him, but that's a different discussion altogether.

As to the question of why Zach would lump the Texans in with the other teams - hey, people are standing up and taking notice of what's going on in Houston. The times are changing.Not sure if an aged player or even an average player like WR Gafney going to a top level team means that player would benefit the Texans. NE might be able to cover for Thomas in ways that Houston could not.

bah007
02-21-2008, 11:27 AM
He wasn't drafted to play MLB. The coaches didn't know where he was going to play yet.

He was, however, drafted AS a OLB. He didn't play MLB in college, so there was no reason to say he was drafted as an MLB.

And the best tackler thing? Zach Thomas has been in the top 5 in tackles for 6 of the last 7 seasons.

And Ryans is just terrible isnt he?

He was #2 in the league as a rookie, & #6 last year.

I'll pose my question again.

Why would you make a Pro Bowler change positions? The kid is a top 5 MLB in the NFL RIGHT NOW.

TK_Gamer
02-21-2008, 03:26 PM
And Ryans is just terrible isnt he?

He was #2 in the league as a rookie, & #6 last year.

I'll pose my question again.

Why would you make a Pro Bowler change positions? The kid is a top 5 MLB in the NFL RIGHT NOW.

There are situation guys in the NFL and there are Position players, and then there are Football Players. Ryans is a Football player. He has good instinct, good quickness, great wrap up skills and at least decent coverage ability for a LB. He could easily play any of the LB spots. Greenwood is purely a weak side LB. We have Diles who is a promissing SSLB but if Thomas can plug up the middle enough to allow Ryans chase the RB around the edge we just increased our run stopping ability by 50 percent, not to mention having 2 guys with pass rushing ability comming from the LB position. That's WHY :)

infantrycak
02-21-2008, 03:48 PM
Greenwood is purely a weak side LB.

Well yeah, except for the four years he spent at SLB in Miami

bah007
02-21-2008, 03:53 PM
It's just like every month we have to deal with a new thread about moving Ryans to the outside or moving Robinson to safety. Every single month.

TK_Gamer
02-21-2008, 03:59 PM
Well yeah, except for the four years he spent at SLB in Miami

well technically, but IMHO Greenwood is not quick enough to the ball to play SLB, but he does get guys off their routes decently and gets alot of finish up tackles. If the other team payed attention they would notice draw plays and pitches to Greenwood's side usually turn out to be 6 yards guaranteed. But Ryans is great off the snap and gets in the backfield alot, I'm not sure how easy he bites on the fake, wich would hurt us for the sam position, but he is way more consistent than Greenwood.

badboy
02-21-2008, 04:00 PM
It's just like every month we have to deal with a new thread about moving Ryans to the outside or moving Robinson to safety. Every single month.Because not everyone agrees with you that it can not be or should not be done.:)

El Tejano
02-21-2008, 04:59 PM
He wasn't drafted to play MLB. The coaches didn't know where he was going to play yet.

He was, however, drafted AS a OLB. He didn't play MLB in college, so there was no reason to say he was drafted as an MLB.

And the best tackler thing? Zach Thomas has been in the top 5 in tackles for 6 of the last 7 seasons.

Great thing about Demeco is if he was smart enough and athletic enough to not only make the transition to MLB in the NFL from college, you know he will only be better as an OLB and make an impact there too.

Remember the starting MLB was an old dude from Buffalo (forget his name) until he broke an ankle or something. Demeco was put at MLB more out of necessity and Demeco just ran with it.

Ole Miss Texan
02-21-2008, 05:10 PM
Great thing about Demeco is if he was smart enough and athletic enough to not only make the transition to MLB in the NFL from college, you know he will only be better as an OLB and make an impact there too.

Remember the starting MLB was an old dude from Buffalo (forget his name) until he broke an ankle or something. Demeco was put at MLB more out of necessity and Demeco just ran with it.

With all due respect... for a team plagued with bad fate and injuries, that one sure turned out to be a blessing in disguise! :)

TEXANRED
02-21-2008, 08:50 PM
Forget contracts, playing time, injuries, etc., as it stands on its own, Zach Thomas visiting us has some extrinsic value to our franchise.

Why must you always make me look up words?

TEXANRED
02-21-2008, 08:56 PM
And Ryans is just terrible isnt he?

He was #2 in the league as a rookie, & #6 last year.

I'll pose my question again.

Why would you make a Pro Bowler change positions? The kid is a top 5 MLB in the NFL RIGHT NOW.

This is an easy question to answer. B/c Ryans is such an excellent athlete he can play both MLB and OLB. Moving Ryans to WLB and putting Thomas in the MLB spot solves two position problems with one player.

You can never have too many stud LB's.

Bruce Matthews, a HOF, played every position along the OL.

DeMeco Ryans is a Bruce Matthews kind of football player.

CloakNNNdagger
02-22-2008, 12:13 AM
Thomas has had another offer laid at his feet...........the Saints. (http://www.nola.com/breaking_sports/index.ssf/2008/02/saints_make_offer_to_thomas.html)

disaacks3
02-22-2008, 12:49 AM
This is an easy question to answer. B/c Ryans is such an excellent athlete he can play both MLB and OLB. Moving Ryans to WLB and putting Thomas in the MLB spot solves two position problems with one player.

You can never have too many stud LB's.

Bruce Matthews, a HOF, played every position along the OL.

DeMeco Ryans is a Bruce Matthews kind of football player. The bold says it all. I too think the kid is that good, that smart & that adaptable. He wasn't the best defender in the SEC by accident....those kind of accidents just don't happen.

threetoedpete
02-22-2008, 01:03 AM
The bold says it all. I too think the kid is that good, that smart & that adaptable. He wasn't the best defender in the SEC by accident....those kind of accidents just don't happen.

You might wanna go befor you go and elevate our young LB into the hall of fame....and rewatch some of the games. He made a lot of bad guesses and missteps last year... and every big run the defense gave up last year Demeeeeco was on one of his fishing expeditions. Just saying there. Demeeeco is tallented....he doesn't walk the water.... yet.

Unless you're going to move Ryans...what is the point of this ? They just released Barber...so you're going to pay Thomas more to back up Ryans than we were going to pay Barber, whom we just cut ?

HOU-TEX
02-22-2008, 09:46 AM
Why must you always make me look up words?

LOL! That one wasn't too bad. Just wait until Runner comes back. That cat can throw some verbage around. :cool:

infantrycak
02-22-2008, 10:14 AM
You might wanna go befor you go and elevate our young LB into the hall of fame....and rewatch some of the games. He made a lot of bad guesses and missteps last year... and every big run the defense gave up last year Demeeeeco was on one of his fishing expeditions. Just saying there. Demeeeco is tallented....he doesn't walk the water.... yet.

If you look hard enough at tape of any player at any position in the league you can find mistakes. Point is DeMeco on a consistent basis makes plays. Being voted as a Texan to the starting pro-bowl spot says players and coaches respect the hell out of the job you are doing.

Specnatz
02-22-2008, 10:55 AM
If you look hard enough at tape of any player at any position in the league you can find mistakes. Point is DeMeco on a consistent basis makes plays. Being voted as a Texan to the starting pro-bowl spot says players and coaches respect the hell out of the job you are doing.

Exactly, and just because a player looks like he is out of position does not mean he is not in the position that the coaches want him to be. Chasing the RB or TE out of the back field so when it is a running play he is covering someone else. The long running plays are not his fault but the fault of the DTs who can not stop the running plays.

Kaiser Toro
02-22-2008, 11:45 AM
LOL! That one wasn't too bad. Just wait until Runner comes back. That cat can throw some verbage around. :cool:

That pseudo-etymologist would not know the difference between a colloquy and a kumquat. :specnatz:

HOU-TEX
02-22-2008, 12:04 PM
That pseudo-etymologist would not know the difference between a colloquy and a kumquat. :specnatz:

Allrightythen...........:thinking:

Specnatz
02-22-2008, 12:26 PM
That pseudo-etymologist would not know the difference between a colloquy and a kumquat. :specnatz:

Now I have to look up what the hell a colloquy is.

badboy
02-22-2008, 01:20 PM
Now I have to look up what the hell a colloquy is.
Comes from the root word colloquial meaning to collect. Often used in reference to a tax collector. Wesley Snipes (acting vampire) has much to say about such folks. Kumquat is an ingredient in certain types of potato salad. To be labeled between the two is quite a put down, I must say.

infantrycak
02-22-2008, 01:53 PM
Comes from the root word colloquial meaning to collect. Often used in reference to a tax collector. Wesley Snipes (acting vampire) has much to say about such folks.

colloquy

Main Entry:
col·lo·quy Listen to the pronunciation of colloquy
Pronunciation:
\ˈkä-lə-kwē\
Function:
noun
Inflected Form(s):
plural col·lo·quies
Etymology:
Latin colloquium, from colloqui to converse, from com- + loqui to speak
Date:
15th century

1 : conversation, dialogue 2 : a high-level serious discussion : conference


Often with a connotation of lecturing or a verbose soliloquy.

Kumquat is an ingredient in certain types of potato salad.

Dude--where the crap have you been eating? I'm from a German family that had Kumquat trees and none ever made their way into a potato salad although many were eaten.

Small, very tart fruit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kumquat.jpeg

CloakNNNdagger
02-22-2008, 01:55 PM
That pseudo-etymologist would not know the difference between a colloquy and a kumquat. :specnatz:

WTF does the big word you used difference mean????? Dang intellect!:shots:

badboy
02-22-2008, 02:04 PM
Often with a connotation of lecturing or a verbose soliloquy.



Dude--where the crap have you been eating? I'm from a German family that had Kumquat trees and none ever made their way into a potato salad although many were eaten.

Small, very tart fruit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kumquat.jpegYou just don't know what you been missing! Ever heard of Kumquat pie or ice cream? No? Me neither.

HOU-TEX
02-22-2008, 02:09 PM
LMAO at the sharp corner to right field this thread has gone!

Zach Thomas to Kumquats....:thinking:

CloakNNNdagger
02-22-2008, 02:15 PM
John Vilma is said to be looking for a new home. He did great out of college in a 4-3 system, then lost his fit and sparkle when the system was changed to the 3-4. He's coming off of major knee surgery, but seems to be rehabing quickly..............

badboy
02-22-2008, 02:21 PM
LMAO at the sharp corner to right field this thread has gone!

Zach Thomas to Kumquats....:thinking:Never allow the intelligencia to get ahead of you. Fidel Castro. We need an OLB just not Thomas.

Goldensilence
02-22-2008, 02:36 PM
John Vilma is said to be looking for a new home. He did great out of college in a 4-3 system, then lost his fit and sparkle when the system was changed to the 3-4. He's coming off of major knee surgery, but seems to be rehabing quickly..............

:thinking: Interesting...very interesting.

If Vilma does make it to FA.....does that make the move Demeco outside conversation legit then?

TEXANRED
02-22-2008, 04:42 PM
That pseudo-etymologist would not know the difference between a colloquy and a kumquat. :specnatz:

Translations:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/etymologist
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/colloquy

My small vocabulary is feeling inadequate around your rather large vocabulary.

drewmar74
02-22-2008, 05:31 PM
:thinking: Interesting...very interesting.

If Vilma does make it to FA.....does that make the move Demeco outside conversation legit then?

Vilma was a 'mike,' right?

How does he stack up in terms of size with DeMeco?

Me, not trying to replace anyone - just thinking out loud.

CloakNNNdagger
02-22-2008, 06:08 PM
Vilma was a 'mike,' right?

How does he stack up in terms of size with DeMeco?

Me, not trying to replace anyone - just thinking out loud.

Very telling:

Vilma (ILB)...6'1" 230 lbs

Demeco.......6'2" 236 lbs

drewmar74
02-22-2008, 06:22 PM
Very telling:

Vilma (ILB)...6'1" 230 lbs

Demeco.......6'2" 236 lbs

Then you've basically have two very similar linebackers in terms of size and one of them blew out a knee......

bah007
02-22-2008, 06:35 PM
Then you've basically have two very similar linebackers in terms of size and one of them blew out a knee......

Yea.

But...but....but Ryans played OLB in college so lets just move him over there & then Vilma can step in at MLB and fix all our LB problems.

You know that old saying:

If it ain't broke, try to fix it anyway. Ryans is All-Pro, but at OLB he could be All-Galaxy.

I think I've made my position clear on the moving Ryans outside idea so this will be my last post about it so I wont get flamed any more.

drewmar74
02-22-2008, 07:24 PM
Yea.

But...but....but Ryans played OLB in college so lets just move him over there & then Vilma can step in at MLB and fix all our LB problems.

You know that old saying:

If it ain't broke, try to fix it anyway. Ryans is All-Pro, but at OLB he could be All-Galaxy.

I think I've made my position clear on the moving Ryans outside idea so this will be my last post about it so I wont get flamed any more.

Interesting idea.

Now, with that said, I wonder if our good GM has any thoughts on it or if he's content to leave DeMeco at ILB.

The1ApplePie
02-22-2008, 08:08 PM
There is no way, reguardless of position combonation, that having both Vilma and DeMeco would be a bad thing.

Having that behind AO and MW would be a nightmare for a good 10 years

drewmar74
02-22-2008, 08:26 PM
There is no way, reguardless of position combonation, that having both Vilma and DeMeco would be a bad thing.

Having that behind AO and MW would be a nightmare for a good 10 years

I still think we need something beefier on the d-line but I could live with Vilma and DeMeco on the field at the same time.

I think we should sign Vilma and force him to play WLB to see if, when identified on the field, he'd be called "Wilma" instead of "Will."

Just a thought....

CloakNNNdagger
02-23-2008, 07:51 AM
Scratch the Broncs from the list (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_8329398)

Thomas talks end. Zach Thomas' agent said his client will not visit Denver. The former Dolphins linebacker will sign elsewhere, said agent Drew Rosenhaus.

Denver was one of six teams to make contact with Rosenhaus after Thomas was cut by Miami. He has visited New England and New Orleans and will visit Dallas and Houston next week.

Xetuoh1836
02-23-2008, 12:14 PM
POSTED 11:56 a.m. EST, February 23, 2008

ZACH GOES HOME

After receiving offers from the Patriots and the Saints in the past few days, linebacker Zach Thomas has opted to join a team that plays in his home state.

Per a league source, Thomas has agreed to terms with the Dallas Cowboys. He's a Texas native, and played college football at Texas Tech.

It's a multi-year deal. No further details are available at this time.

Thomas was a fifth-round draft pick of the Dolphins in 1996. He spent twelve years in Miami.

From PTF, you decide...

Kaiser Toro
02-23-2008, 12:24 PM
POSTED 11:56 a.m. EST, February 23, 2008

ZACH GOES HOME

After receiving offers from the Patriots and the Saints in the past few days, linebacker Zach Thomas has opted to join a team that plays in his home state.

Per a league source, Thomas has agreed to terms with the Dallas Cowboys. He's a Texas native, and played college football at Texas Tech.

It's a multi-year deal. No further details are available at this time.

Thomas was a fifth-round draft pick of the Dolphins in 1996. He spent twelve years in Miami.

From PTF, you decide...

We would be able to decide easier if we had a link. :specnatz:

Texans34Life
02-23-2008, 12:36 PM
We would be able to decide easier if we had a link. :specnatz:

Here you go, KT...

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7831916/Sources:-Cowboys-win-Thomas-sweepstakes

Xetuoh1836
02-23-2008, 01:26 PM
We would be able to decide easier if we had a link. :specnatz:

Sorry guys! At the time, there wasn't a link but:


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3260529

Hope it helps.

b0ng
02-23-2008, 01:42 PM
That spells some doom for one Mr. Bobby Carpenter.

Good, I'm glad we lost out on the Zach Thomas sweepstakes.

Triple347
02-23-2008, 01:44 PM
Sorry guys! At the time, the wasn't a link but:


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3260529

Hope it helps.

Matt Mosley confirmed this on Hashmarks. Since I live in Dallas, I am sure I will hear about this a lot, but I am not surprised. I am glad he didn't sign with us, anyway. We need a more athletic linebacker that can run sideline-to-sidline. Could this mean the end of Bradie James in Dallas?

bah007
02-23-2008, 01:55 PM
Matt Mosley confirmed this on Hashmarks. Since I live in Dallas, I am sure I will hear about this a lot, but I am not surprised. I am glad he didn't sign with us, anyway. We need a more athletic linebacker that can run sideline-to-sidline. Could this mean the end of Bradie James in Dallas?

Probably not.

Maybe Akin Ayodele though.