PDA

View Full Version : Draft An OT Please!


Ali4Real
02-16-2008, 10:42 AM
Why are draft experts and fans suggesting that the Texans draft a RB or WR in the first round. IMO, we need an OT...NOW! I don't want to wait 2-3 years and then get an OT, I want one now.

Look at the Browns after they drafted Joe Thomas, they almost went to the playoffs and b/c of Joe Thomas their running game and passing game improved.

Now that I think about it, imagine if we had a stellar offensive line when Domanick Williams played for the Texans. Hell, he wouldv'e been a Pro Bowl RB by now and maybe David Carr would still be a Texan.

Since we don't bring in superstar players via FA and since we paid Ahman Green so much money I think its time that the Texans pull a shocker and draft an OT in the first round. The 08' draft class is the best there has ever been and there is an abundance of talent at OT, so plz Rick Smith and the rest of the Texans...draft an OT!


Finally, who would you draft at 18th as an OT?

:thinking:

The1ApplePie
02-16-2008, 11:00 AM
Any OT with 1st round talent will be gone by 18, which sucks

Second Honeymoon
02-16-2008, 11:13 AM
Why are draft experts and fans suggesting that the Texans draft a RB or WR in the first round. IMO, we need an OT...NOW! I don't want to wait 2-3 years and then get an OT, I want one now.

Look at the Browns after they drafted Joe Thomas, they almost went to the playoffs and b/c of Joe Thomas their running game and passing game improved.

Now that I think about it, imagine if we had a stellar offensive line when Domanick Williams played for the Texans. Hell, he wouldv'e been a Pro Bowl RB by now and maybe David Carr would still be a Texan.

Since we don't bring in superstar players via FA and since we paid Ahman Green so much money I think its time that the Texans pull a shocker and draft an OT in the first round. The 08' draft class is the best there has ever been and there is an abundance of talent at OT, so plz Rick Smith and the rest of the Texans...draft an OT!


Finally, who would you draft at 18th as an OT?

:thinking:

so the reason Davis and Carr werent successful was because of the Offensive Line? Oh, ok. I guess it had nothing to do with the fact that Davis sustained a career ending injury and Carr was a horrible QB and a pathetic professional athlete. But whatever, its all the offensive lines fault.

Let's reach on a guy in the 1st Round because we all know that guarantees success and instant gratification. Maybe we should draft an OT in the 1st Round and resign Carr to be our starter. I am sure that would be a brilliant move. Great suggestion and very well thought out and composed.

We need to all go out and make Super Bowl travel arrangements once this all pans out. I just can't wait.

Overalls
02-16-2008, 11:18 AM
With bib holes at DB, RB, and OT I am not going to mind if they pick any of the 3 in the first round. I also would like to see a way for us to move down a few spots and pick up a 2nd round pick. Like The1Applepie said, kinda sorta, I don't want to force a pick. I just want BPA at one of those spots with that pick. FA hasn't really kicked off yet so I am willing to wait to see what happens there before I go screaming for one possition or another in the first round. We found out what a better QB can do for our sack numbers behind our line. What would a quality RB be able to do with the same O-line? Conversely what would a quality DB do for our frount four if the other teams QB had to take a second longer to make a throw. Would our D-line sack numbers go up? Would we get burnt fewer times by the pass? Would we give up fewer points and thus have to score fewer.
The so called draft experts say this is a draft deep in RB's so my dream scenario would have us getting one of the top DBs in FA, then trading down 5 to 10 spots in the draft to get a 2nd rounder. Take the 1st round pick and get a OT/RB, which ever is rated higher and then use the 2nd to get whichever position you didn't address in the 1st. I have more trust in Smith and Kubes than I ever had in Casserly and Capers. They will make the right choice.

:fans:

gary
02-16-2008, 12:07 PM
We do need an OT but don't think Carr was ment to play football.

ChampionTexan
02-16-2008, 12:45 PM
Look at the Browns after they drafted Joe Thomas, they almost went to the playoffs and b/c of Joe Thomas their running game and passing game improved.

Look at the Jets two years after they drafted D'Brickashaw Ferguson - They are 26th in total offense and finished the season 4-12. It's not an automatic success - even if it's top 5.

Now that I think about it, imagine if we had a stellar offensive line when Domanick Williams played for the Texans. Hell, he wouldv'e been a Pro Bowl RB by now and maybe David Carr would still be a Texan.

If drafting a OLT in the first round would have kept David Carr here, then you have provided all the justification this board needs for not doing it.

Finally, who would you draft at 18th as an OT?

Isn't this something you should be telling us given the rest of your post?

I believe the two biggest needs for the Texans (pending FA moves) are OLT and CB. Obviously, if the Texans feel someone at one of those postions is worth the #18 pick, then I'll be happy. But it's silly for me to think that it absolutely must be one of those positions.

Specifically as it relates to OLT, it's a given that Jake Long and Ryan Clady will be gone by the time we pick. The three highest rated players that reasonably could be there are Jeff Otah (Pittsburgh), Chris Williams (Vanderbilt) and Sam Baker (USC). One of these three could easily be gone before pick 18, so you might be looking at two guys for the pick.

If Kubiak/Smith/Gibbs feel like one of these guys is worth using the #18 pick on, then I'm more than okay with that (I think I already said something to that effect). But if they determine that based on scheme, or their evaluation of the guys physical assets and talent that he's not worth the pick, then I sure as heck don't want them taking him just because he's a tackle. Maybe their evaluation skills are exactly right (that's why they do this for a living), maybe at times they're not (That's why some/most of these guys eventually get fired), but I believe the current brain trust knows more about this than I do. I'd gotten to the point with Casserly that I was just kind of hoping he'd take an SI or Sporting News to the War Room, and just use their draft board (It may not have been a good draft, but at least the public ridicule would have been delayed a few years). To this point, Kubiak and Rick Smith have demonstrated that they seem to know how to evaluate talent and team needs.

Pretty much any position they pick is okay with me given the fact they're not going QB, and I believe that anyone saying they're likely to pick a WR doesn't know what they're talking about. I'm still hoping for the OLT or CB, but at least I feel comfortable that given the recent (last two years) track record, and the overall state of the roster, that I'll end up being excited about whatever they end up doing.

PapaL
02-16-2008, 12:49 PM
We can't force a pick. As much as I want a talented 1st round OL - they have to be worth the slot (currently the 18th).

Goldensilence
02-16-2008, 01:25 PM
Look at the Jets two years after they drafted D'Brickashaw Ferguson - They are 26th in total offense and finished the season 4-12. It's not an automatic success - even if it's top 5.

I think Nick Mangold has been the better of the two. But keep in mind injuries and shuffling at the QB spot for offensive woes. D'Brick allowed 10 sacks btw.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=3620



If drafting a OLT in the first round would have kept David Carr here, then you have provided all the justification this board needs for not doing it.

:toast2:

Isn't this something you should be telling us given the rest of your post?

I believe the two biggest needs for the Texans (pending FA moves) are OLT and CB. Obviously, if the Texans feel someone at one of those postions is worth the #18 pick, then I'll be happy. But it's silly for me to think that it absolutely must be one of those positions.

Specifically as it relates to OLT, it's a given that Jake Long and Ryan Clady will be gone by the time we pick. The three highest rated players that reasonably could be there are Jeff Otah (Pittsburgh), Chris Williams (Vanderbilt) and Sam Baker (USC). One of these three could easily be gone before pick 18, so you might be looking at two guys for the pick.

If Kubiak/Smith/Gibbs feel like one of these guys is worth using the #18 pick on, then I'm more than okay with that (I think I already said something to that effect). But if they determine that based on scheme, or their evaluation of the guys physical assets and talent that he's not worth the pick, then I sure as heck don't want them taking him just because he's a tackle. Maybe their evaluation skills are exactly right (that's why they do this for a living), maybe at times they're not (That's why some/most of these guys eventually get fired), but I believe the current brain trust knows more about this than I do. I'd gotten to the point with Casserly that I was just kind of hoping he'd take an SI or Sporting News to the War Room, and just use their draft board (It may not have been a good draft, but at least the public ridicule would have been delayed a few years). To this point, Kubiak and Rick Smith have demonstrated that they seem to know how to evaluate talent and team needs.

Pretty much any position they pick is okay with me given the fact they're not going QB, and I believe that anyone saying they're likely to pick a WR doesn't know what they're talking about. I'm still hoping for the OLT or CB, but at least I feel comfortable that given the recent (last two years) track record, and the overall state of the roster, that I'll end up being excited about whatever they end up doing.

Great post.

nunusguy
03-26-2008, 07:42 AM
"Otah, a projected first-round pick, decided not to work out Monday for the estimated 15 teams that were represented on the South Side because the mammoth offensive tackle still is nursing an ankle injury."
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_558864.html
2 ways to look at this: he didn't play in the Senior-Bowl reportedly because of
injury, so one might begin to question his durability ? Or, he is such a fantastic prospect that it increases the possibility of him being available to us at #18 because while some teams might worry 'bout injury issues, Smith/Kubiak/Gibbs still love him.
BTW, wonder if the Texans were one of the 15 NFL teams at the Pitt PD ?
*****
"Called the "best blocker I've ever coached," by Pitt head coach Dave Wannstedt, Otah served as offensive captain for one of college football's best running attacks as a senior."
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jeff-otah?id=292
Dang, that's quite a compliment by former NFL HC Wannstedt !
***
"He led the team to a pair of conference co-championships and also lettered twice in basketball. He averaged nearly 19 points and 12 rebounds per game during his hoops career at Valley Forge.
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jeff-otah?id=292
For obvious reasons, I like my OTs to have a resume which includes an extensive background in roundball.

Vinny
03-26-2008, 08:23 AM
"Otah, a projected first-round pick, decided not to work out Monday for the estimated 15 teams that were represented on the South Side because the mammoth offensive tackle still is nursing an ankle injury."
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_558864.html
2 ways to look at this: he didn't play in the Senior-Bowl reportedly because of
injury, so one might begin to question his durability ? Or, he is such a fantastic prospect that it increases the possibility of him being available to us at #18 because while some teams might worry 'bout injury issues, Smith/Kubiak/Gibbs still love him.
BTW, wonder if the Texans were one of the 15 NFL teams at the Pitt PD ?
*****
"Called the "best blocker I've ever coached," by Pitt head coach Dave Wannstedt, Otah served as offensive captain for one of college football's best running attacks as a senior."
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jeff-otah?id=292
Dang, that's quite a compliment by former NFL HC Wannstedt !
***
"He led the team to a pair of conference co-championships and also lettered twice in basketball. He averaged nearly 19 points and 12 rebounds per game during his hoops career at Valley Forge.
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jeff-otah?id=292
For obvious reasons, I like my OTs to have a resume which includes an extensive background in roundball.
Former head coach Chan Gailey said that Tony Hollings would be a star in the NFL too....take a grain with that coachspeak when they are pimping their own.

Otah didn't look like he was a natural bender at the combine and didn't work out? I see red flags everywhere.

nunusguy
03-26-2008, 08:58 AM
Former head coach Chan Gailey said that Tony Hollings would be a star in the NFL too....take a grain with that coachspeak when they are pimping their own.
Otah didn't look like he was a natural bender at the combine and didn't work out? I see red flags everywhere.
As you know V, Hollings was basically a DB who played maybe 3 or 4 games at RB for G-Tech. Still surprising that a former NFL HC would make such a premature decision. And of course unfortuante for the Texans that CC bought it hook-line-and-sinker.
But that's not at all comparable to Otah's situation at Pitt under Wannstadt where he started to 2 full seasons in the OLine withought missing a game.
And that demonstrates his durability and toughness over a relatively lengthy period of time, plus unlike the Gailey assessment it gave Wannstadt a very large window of opportunity to evaluate Otah.
So - please keep an open mind about this guy. If you do so you might ultimately change it about him.

Vinny
03-26-2008, 08:59 AM
I'm not comparing the situations when I just point out that coach-speak is 'homer-drivel' that fires up the boosters too often to rely on it. He's probably gonna be a good one but I have some cynicism to entertain on him as a prospect.

infantrycak
03-26-2008, 09:07 AM
As you know V, Hollings was basically a DB who played maybe 3 or 4 games at RB for G-Tech.

Halfway true. He was a running QB in HS who also played DB. They tried to transition him to full time DB at Georgia Tech and then started him at RB. Still a bust no matter the details.

nunusguy
03-26-2008, 09:28 AM
I'm not comparing the situations when I just point out that coach-speak is 'homer-drivel' that fires up the boosters too often to rely on it. He's probably gonna be a good one but I have some cynicism to entertain on him as a prospect.
And I wouldn't generalize about coach-speak being "homer-drivel".
Having and coaching Otah for 2 complete seasons at the position he'd play in
the NFL is much different than another player in that situation but for only a fration of a singe season.
So I would compare the 2, and suggest that one situation has a far more legitimate basis for credibilty than the other, while knowing all too well that
there is certainly no sure-fire way to predict a players success in the NFL based entirely upon what he did in college. That goes without saying, of course.

badboy
03-26-2008, 10:28 AM
Why are draft experts and fans suggesting that the Texans draft a RB or WR in the first round. IMO, we need an OT...NOW! I don't want to wait 2-3 years and then get an OT, I want one now.

Look at the Browns after they drafted Joe Thomas, they almost went to the playoffs and b/c of Joe Thomas their running game and passing game improved.

Now that I think about it, imagine if we had a stellar offensive line when Domanick Williams played for the Texans. Hell, he wouldv'e been a Pro Bowl RB by now and maybe David Carr would still be a Texan.

Since we don't bring in superstar players via FA and since we paid Ahman Green so much money I think its time that the Texans pull a shocker and draft an OT in the first round. The 08' draft class is the best there has ever been and there is an abundance of talent at OT, so plz Rick Smith and the rest of the Texans...draft an OT!


Finally, who would you draft at 18th as an OT?

:thinking:I missed this post until today's bump.Ali4Real, hopefully since the day you began your thread you reviewed the countless other threads that have discussed your ideas. Gives you some more info. I also want a LT for Htown, but I think LT, RB and CB are three biggest needs. Bob McNair on Houston's local Fox network said those three positions are still needed. As others have said Long, McClady and Williams probably will be gone at LT. RBs McFadden, Mendenhall and Stewart will probably be gone. CB's McKelvin, Jenkins, DRC and Talib probably gone. Of these, there is a possibility(based on some mocks and what others supposedly in know are saying) that Williams LT, Stewart RB and Talib might be there at #18. Let's look at the following as if no trade or a draft pick for Sage will be done as we don't know if either will happen.

LT: Salaam has played well as a guy who was supposed to be a back up. We need to replace him. Williams imo can be a starter from game one and is a "franchise type" player that could start for 10-12 years.

RB: Chris Brown is a potential starter with some history of injury but a good risk for your power guy with ability to get first or score in red zone. Some doubt if he can be the main guy for the entire season. Taylor is a wish and might do well but may flop as we have minimal history. Green imo will be eventually cut to save the $3.8million on cap. He will be kept as insurance probably thru training camp. Walker is supposedly not right for ZBS and is gone. Stewart is a franchise type RB and his toe surgery cooled me on him. What info I can find says he should be 100% by week 3 and quite possibly by game 1. My interest is heating up.

CB: Dunte will not be back for several weeks and may not be the same player. Jacques Reeves FA from Dallas may or may not improve in new defense but as McNair said last night, "We still need to get a young CB". Not all are sold on Talib or Cason being the guy at #18. I'm not.

In Summary,

If Stewart and Williams are there at #18 and barring a very good trade down scenario, I go with a "franchise type" LT over a "franchise type" Rb simply because a LT should have a longer career on average. There are other players at all 3 positions that may be available on second day.

I like LT Anthony Collins, Baker, Heath Benedict, Tony Hills and maybe Otah & Zuttah. RB: Jamaal Charles, Forte, Felix Jones, Chris Johnson & maybe Tashard Choice. CB: Justin King, Terrell Thomas, Charles Godfrey, Chevis Jackson and Tyvon Branch.

The really good news is we should be able to address the three holes that McNair mentioned by our third selection and that is without any additional picks. Link nfldraftscout.com is a good rating service that is free.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/players.php?genpos=QB&draftyear=2008&sortorder=tsxpos&order=ASC

ChampionTexan
03-26-2008, 11:29 AM
And I wouldn't generalize about coach-speak being "homer-drivel".


I also wouldn't characterize coach-speak made for public consumption as carrying too much weight either. I don't know if anyone in the FO has a personal relationship with Wanstedt, or any of the other coaches at Pitt(sburgh), but if they're able to have a private conversation in regard to Otah, then I think we might have something they can put some credence in.

As far as the thread topic in general, I believe there's clear signs showing that the Texans would prefer to go OLT with the 18th pick. Of the three "major" need areas, they've done something to address CB, and something to address RB, but absolutely nothing to address the left side of the O-Line. There's no question that this is in large part a product of the dearth of talent in the Free Agent OLT pool, but that's the type of thing that drives your pick.

I will also stick with my previous comments that it has to be the right guy, as not drafting a OLT in round 1 would be disappointing, but drafting a OLT bust in round 1 would be disastrous. I'm not going to predict anything about the draft, but just as it wouldn't bother me to see the Texans trade down in the first round (Which is dependent on another team wanting to trade up), I wouldn't mind seeing them trade up to get ahead of the Bears if an OLT thy deem worthy of a top 15 pick is there. This is much more in their control, as these trades are always driven by the team trading up. In all probability, this would be for Williams or Clady, although I don't know what Clady's 13 on the Wonderlich did to his status with the NFL in general, or the Texans specifically.

Second Honeymoon
03-26-2008, 12:37 PM
Why are draft experts and fans suggesting that the Texans draft a RB or WR in the first round. IMO, we need an OT...NOW! I don't want to wait 2-3 years and then get an OT, I want one now.

Look at the Browns after they drafted Joe Thomas, they almost went to the playoffs and b/c of Joe Thomas their running game and passing game improved.

Now that I think about it, imagine if we had a stellar offensive line when Domanick Williams played for the Texans. Hell, he wouldv'e been a Pro Bowl RB by now and maybe David Carr would still be a Texan.

Since we don't bring in superstar players via FA and since we paid Ahman Green so much money I think its time that the Texans pull a shocker and draft an OT in the first round. The 08' draft class is the best there has ever been and there is an abundance of talent at OT, so plz Rick Smith and the rest of the Texans...draft an OT!


Finally, who would you draft at 18th as an OT?

:thinking:

there is no Joe Thomas-type LT prospect in this draft. are you that deluded to think Carr would be a Texan if we had a better LT? cmon now. You are living in the past and probably need a better grasp on reality.

Davis was injured and it ended his career. Would having a franchise LT prevented the injury? No. Carr sucked, has sucked, and always will suck, and would having a franchise LT prevented him from sucking? No. We saw that last year when he got to play behind what he deemed 'a real team's' offensive line.

You need to stop making kneejerk statements and blaming everything on one position because ESPN said so. We need to draft the best player available at #18 and if that is a Offensive Tackle, so be it. The problem is the tackles that will be around at #18 will not be worth the selection and don't have a fraction of the talent that Joe Thomas had last year.

To get a player like Joe Thomas, Orlando Pace, Jonathan Ogden, Walter Jones, etc. Franchise Blue Chip Tackles, you have to either A.) have a horrible season. B.) Develop a prospect with patience.

Just please refrain from pining for the days of Carr or blaming everything on the Offensive Lineman. You would have thought we would have learned from that.

FILOMAN
03-26-2008, 01:58 PM
I believe that we should be able to deal Sage for a 2 Rd. pick between now and/or on draft day. Then I believe that you take the best player avl. at #18 which should be DB, DE whatever the Texans FO believes suits us best. Then use the second for an OT like Collins, or Hill. Remeber we have had pretty good luck with finding good people for our OL in later rounds ie. Spencer(got hurt by Dayne) Winston. Then you address RB in the 3 rd. Assuming that they dont in the 1st with the addition of Chris Brown even though I dont believe he will totally fix the problem and we still need a STUD RB imo.:fans:

threetoedpete
03-28-2008, 05:30 PM
To get a player like Joe Thomas, Orlando Pace, Jonathan Ogden, Walter Jones, etc. Franchise Blue Chip Tackles, you have to either A.) have a horrible season. B.) Develop a prospect with patience.

Just please refrain from pining for the days of Carr or blaming everything on the Offensive Lineman. You would have thought we would have learned from that.

all I know or a fact is they'e had one franchise CB and one Franchise WR. We're working on Franchise QB #2. still waiting for that developmental guy you're talking about. what's going to happen is that by the time we get one up to speed we'll be working on QB #3. It's not going to go away untill they pick it. there will be a point in time when you get it figured out it... wasn't all HWSNBN either. Took a total franchise effort to get the guy into the train wreck he is now. 249 sacks is not nothing. To Watch four more go off the board in front of us ...that will just be sad. Saalam goes down we just may get a shot at one in '09 that's for sure.

HJam72
03-28-2008, 06:37 PM
At some point, we may need to take the 4th or even 5th best LT in a draft in the first round. It may come to that, having another horrible season, or $$$$$$$$buying$$$$$$$$$$$ one through trade or free agency.

We're not going to get the 2nd best LT in any draft with a #18 pick; and, hopefully we will not be picking in the top 10 again anytime soon. I don't want to pick in the top 20 again anytime soon, after this one.

steelbtexan
03-29-2008, 01:08 PM
all I know or a fact is they'e had one franchise CB and one Franchise WR. We're working on Franchise QB #2. still waiting for that developmental guy you're talking about. what's going to happen is that by the time we get one up to speed we'll be working on QB #3. It's not going to go away untill they pick it. there will be a point in time when you get it figguted out it wasn't all HWNBN either. Took a toltal franchise effort to get the guy into the train wreck he is now. 249 sacks is not nothing. To Watch four more go off the board infront of us ...that will just be sad. Saalam goes down we just my get a shot at one in '09 that's for sure.

Well stated TTP

otisbean
03-30-2008, 09:04 AM
all I know or a fact is they'e had one franchise CB and one Franchise WR. We're working on Franchise QB #2. still waiting for that developmental guy you're talking about. what's going to happen is that by the time we get one up to speed we'll be working on QB #3. It's not going to go away untill they pick it. there will be a point in time when you get it figguted out it wasn't all HWNBN either. Took a toltal franchise effort to get the guy into the train wreck he is now. 249 sacks is not nothing. To Watch four more go off the board infront of us ...that will just be sad. Saalam goes down we just my get a shot at one in '09 that's for sure.

While Williams would be my pick for the Texans, what would you have them do if the top flight guys are gone? We can't trade up, don't have the ammo. Since they hired possibly the top OL coach in the league I am fairly certain he will help them find a guy to address the position even if it is not in rd1.

ArlingtonTexan
03-30-2008, 09:18 AM
At some point, we may need to take the 4th or even 5th best LT in a draft in the first round. It may come to that, having another horrible season, or $$$$$$$$buying$$$$$$$$$$$ one through trade or free agency.

We're not going to get the 2nd best LT in any draft with a #18 pick; and, hopefully we will not be picking in the top 10 again anytime soon. I don't want to pick in the top 20 again anytime soon, after this one.

It is not a problem taking the 4th or 5th LT, but making sure that he is a legitimate 1st round talent. If we take a LT this year, he will be rated in that area but the talent this year warrants those guys as 1st rounders. Many years the 4th or 5th guy is 3rd/4th rounder.

threetoedpete
03-30-2008, 11:59 AM
I agree with both of you...and I don't know....I'm already looking up the guy from Georgia and 'bama for the '09 draft. I think they will move back if they get an offer for the pick. Seattle's owner loves Stewart....

If they can't move the pick...they'll take the CB first with all four top OLT prospects off the board.

With all due repect to Hollywood John...Gibbs better be able to walk the water.

Gibbs gets one of the other flavors of the year at OLT on the board to become anything, he's earned his oats. all of this is assuming...Winston will struggle there and Jordan Black is who we think he is.

badboy
03-31-2008, 10:52 AM
There are satisfactory tackles for Gibbs to work with after first round. If Williams is there do it. If not, Stewart. It is looking more like Sage will turn into a 2nd for us.