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PHAROAH
02-08-2008, 01:03 PM
The Texans are in decent shape in regards to the cap but if we could get rid off Dead weight such as Anthony Weaver & Ahman Green we could open more money to sign guys who could come in and help immediately.



Projected 2008 NFL Salary Cap Space for Each Team

Rank Team $ Under the Cap
1 San Diego Chargers $43.03 M
There are currently 44 players under contract.
2 Tennessee Titans $40.85 M
There are currently 39 players under contract.
3 Miami Dolphins $35.56 M
There are currently 48 players under contract.
4 Jacksonville Jaguars $32.69 M
There are currently 43 players under contract.
5 Buffalo Bills $32.05 M
There are currently 49 players under contract.
6 New Orleans Saints $31.69 M
There are currently 39 players under contract.
7 Cincinnati Bengals $31.45 M
There are currently 48 players under contract.
8 San Francisco 49ers $30.91 M
There are currently 48 players under contract.
9 Cleveland Browns $30.31 M
There are currently 42 players under contract.
10 Arizona Cardinals $30.27 M
There are currently 34 players under contract.
11 NY Jets $27.72 M
There are currently 45 players under contract.
12 Oakland Raiders $25.98 M
There are currently 40 players under contract.
13 Tampa Bay Buccaneers $25.9 M
There are currently 48 players under contract.
14 NY Giants $24.47 M
There are currently 49 players under contract.
15 Detroit Lions $23.5 M
There are currently 42 players under contract.
16 Houston Texans $22.91 M
There are currently 43 players under contract.
17 Dallas Cowboys $20.61 M
There are currently 40 players under contract.
18 Kansas City Chiefs $20.27 M
There are currently 44 players under contract.
19 Chicago Bears $19.8 M
There are currently 52 players under contract.
20 Pittsburgh Steelers $18.61 M
There are currently 43 players under contract.
21 Green Bay Packers $18.37 M
There are currently 48 players under contract.
22 Philadelphia Eagles $17.17 M
There are currently 49 players under contract.
23 Denver Broncos $16.77 M
There are currently 49 players under contract.
24 Minnesota Vikings $14.88 M
There are currently 49 players under contract.
25 New England Patriots $10.93 M
There are currently 41 players under contract.
26 St. Louis Rams $9.61 M
There are currently 45 players under contract.
27 Seattle Seahawks $9.55 M
There are currently 44 players under contract.
28 Indianapolis Colts $8.49 M
There are currently 48 players under contract.
29 Carolina Panthers $6.05 M
There are currently 35 players under contract.
30 Atlanta Falcons $5.79 M
There are currently 52 players under contract.
31 Baltimore Ravens $5 M
There are currently 42 players under contract.
32 Washington Redskins $-20.72 M
There are currently 45 players under contract.


:whip: :music: :texflag:

infantrycak
02-08-2008, 01:24 PM
We need a link--thanks.

PHAROAH
02-08-2008, 01:27 PM
We need a link--thanks.My bad.


http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/numbers.asp

badboy
02-08-2008, 02:21 PM
I prefer Keith at Houstonprofootball.com. I and many others think he is much more accurate.http://www.houstonprofootball.com/cap2008.html
As you can see from his projection, Texans have just over $35million that might be effected some by a bonus move on Mario Williams.C:\Documents and Settings\debtuser.SERVER\Desktop\Re Texans cap.htm I am not sure if the email exchange will show if not I will provide in another post. We can affer a contract with zero bonus (Mario's deal) with a significant guarantee and back load like Nate Clemments. We could for example sign Samuel CB and Lance Briggs OLB for 80 million each for 8 years. Guarantee three years and adjust bonus and first year salary too avoid huge cap hit. It is risky to give large guarantees but that may be a way in the future to decrease bonus. I think both players I mentioned are money in the bank.

badboy
02-08-2008, 02:22 PM
I prefer Keith at Houstonprofootball.com. I and many others think he is much more accurate.http://www.houstonprofootball.com/cap2008.html
As you can see from his projection, Texans have just over $35million that might be effected some by a bonus move on Mario Williams.C:\Documents and Settings\debtuser.SERVER\Desktop\Re Texans cap.htm I am not sure if the email exchange will show if not I will provide in another post. We can affer a contract with zero bonus (Mario's deal) with a significant guarantee and back load like Nate Clemments. We could for example sign Samuel CB and Lance Briggs OLB for 80 million each for 8 years. Guarantee three years and adjust bonus and first year salary too avoid huge cap hit. It is risky to give large guarantees but that may be a way in the future to decrease bonus. I think both players I mentioned are money in the bank.C:\Documents and Settings\debtuser.SERVER\Desktop\Re Texans cap.htm

badboy
02-08-2008, 02:23 PM
[QUOTE=badboy;841173]I prefer Keith at Houstonprofootball.com. I and many others think he is much more accurate.http://www.houstonprofootball.com/cap2008.html
As you can see from his projection, Texans have just over $35million that might be effected some by a bonus move on Mario Williams.C:\Documents and Settings\debtuser.SERVER\Desktop\Re Texans cap.htm I am not sure if the email exchange will show if not I will provide in another post. We can affer a contract with zero bonus (Mario's deal) with a significant guarantee and back load like Nate Clemments. We could for example sign Samuel CB and Lance Briggs OLB for 80 million each for 8 years. Guarantee three years and adjust bonus and first year salary too avoid huge cap hit. It is risky to give large guarantees but that may be a way in the future to decrease bonus. I think both players I mentioned are money in the bank. From: Keith [keith@houstonprofootball.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 5:35 PM
To: smeloy@hospitalsolutionsinc.com
Subject: Re: Texans cap

So, yeah, the option bonus is typically spread evenly over the remaining years of the contract from when it is exercised. The team I think has the choice of eating the entire option bonus on the current year's cap, but that is a pretty unusual decision for a team to make. I seem to recall it coming up a few years ago with Michael Vick... I think the Falcons for some reason to an unusually long time to decide to prorate some bonus Vick earned.

To your second question, the base salaries are typically lower in the first couple years of a big multi-year deal, partly because the player is satisfied with pocketing the bonus check that first year (bonuses are prorated for cap purposes, but unless specified to be paid in installments, most bonus checks are paid shortly after the contract is signed). The base salaries just have to at least be at the vet minimum based on the # of seasons played for each year of the contract. And yeah, there is apparently an increasing trend in agents negotiating some or all of the base amounts as guaranteed, particularly for 1st round picks lately. You have calculated your Briggs example below correctly as I understand the rules.

FYI - The Falcons came up with a 'salary cap 101' for fans a couple years ago, and it covers a lot of the stuff that comes up in the offseason - bonuses, dead money, rookie pool, etc. http://www.atlantafalcons.com/People/Fans/Salary_Cap_101.aspx It's a handy reference from time to time.

Keith

Lucky
02-08-2008, 03:17 PM
16 Houston Texans $22.91 M
There are currently 43 players under contract.


I prefer Keith at Houstonprofootball.com. I and many others think he is much more accurate.http://www.houstonprofootball.com/cap2008.html
As you can see from his projection, Texans have just over $35million...
Keith also has only 36 players currently under contract, as opposed to the 43 that askthecommish projects. That probably reflects the lion's share of the difference in cap estimates. And I'm fairly certain that Keith is correct in his estimates on players under contract and cap hits.

feebleminded
02-08-2008, 03:29 PM
Keith also has only 36 players currently under contract, as opposed to the 43 that askthecommish projects. That probably reflects the lion's share of the difference in cap estimates. And I'm fairly certain that Keith is correct in his estimates on players under contract and cap hits.

I think he is only missing the signing of the 7 at the very beginning of the year

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4118

I bet the most significant difference is the way Keith is handling the $12MM option bonus for Mario that he is referencing on his page.

We probably also have a forwarded adjustment (probably relatively small) coming from last year's cap via not likely to be earned incentives.

threetoedpete
02-08-2008, 04:17 PM
We need a link--thanks.

No sheet. Is this befor or after Mario's money kicks in ?

badboy
02-08-2008, 04:49 PM
No sheet. Is this befor or after Mario's money kicks in ?Mario situation is pretty complex. Thought I kept that email also but can't find it. Bascially, Texans can offer a cash bonus ($12m)prior to 2008 season and add another year (2011) to Mario's contract and significantly lower his base salary. Mario then has the right to void the last two years. If that happens, Texans can buy the two back for an agreed amount. I think the $21 million cap room that has been mentioned on various links is taking the $35m and subtracting the entire $12m bonus to Mario. It is important to note that the bonus can be pro rated across the entire contract.

PHAROAH
02-08-2008, 05:35 PM
I wasn't saying that ask the commish was better than what keith projected I was just trying to find out how much cap spce we are working with and share it with everyone. I think it's good to know that you guys know that we have more cap space available because I wasn't aware of it. Thanks

PHAROAH
02-08-2008, 05:45 PM
Now we defeinately have to do something about these guys because some of them are absolutely stealing money and we have to cut ties and put some of this money to use on other players.


Player Name Signed Thru Base Salary Allocated Bonus Pay Total 2008 Cap
Weaver, Anthony 2010 $3,500,000 $ 2,700,000 $6,200,000
Faggins, Demarcus 2008 $1,275,000 $425,000 $1,700,000
Green, Ahman 2010 $3,800,000 $1,250,000 $5,050,000
Putzier, Jeb 2009 $1,750,000 $462,500 $2,203,750
Black, Jordan 2008 $1,300,000 $900,000 $2,200,000

Second Honeymoon
02-08-2008, 05:59 PM
Now we defeinately have to do something about these guys because some of them are absolutely stealing money and we have to cut ties and put some of this money to use on other players.


Player Name Signed Thru Base Salary Allocated Bonus Pay Total 2008 Cap
Weaver, Anthony 2010 $3,500,000 $ 2,700,000 $6,200,000
Faggins, Demarcus 2008 $1,275,000 $425,000 $1,700,000
Green, Ahman 2010 $3,800,000 $1,250,000 $5,050,000
Putzier, Jeb 2009 $1,750,000 $462,500 $2,203,750
Black, Jordan 2008 $1,300,000 $900,000 $2,200,000

Sack Weaver and Putzier. Keep the rest.

Ole Miss Texan
02-08-2008, 06:12 PM
Now we defeinately have to do something about these guys because some of them are absolutely stealing money and we have to cut ties and put some of this money to use on other players.


Player Name Signed Thru Base Salary Allocated Bonus Pay Total 2008 Cap
Weaver, Anthony 2010 $3,500,000 $ 2,700,000 $6,200,000
Faggins, Demarcus 2008 $1,275,000 $425,000 $1,700,000
Green, Ahman 2010 $3,800,000 $1,250,000 $5,050,000
Putzier, Jeb 2009 $1,750,000 $462,500 $2,203,750
Black, Jordan 2008 $1,300,000 $900,000 $2,200,000

Wow. So if we cut a player, do we have to pay his allocated bonus (for all remaining years) but we WON'T have to pay his salary?

If that's the case I agree with Weaver and Putzier but I'd throw in Jordan Black as well. Not that our LT spot is strong but I think we got some young talent, we'll be looking for LT in the draft and Gibbs can do his thing not having to pay THAT much. Weaver's 2.7 mill might be a lot to eat up but so is his 3.5 I think Putz and Black have got to go strictly looking at this.

aj.
02-08-2008, 06:57 PM
mbv

aj.
02-08-2008, 06:58 PM
. We can affer a contract with zero bonus (Mario's deal) with a significant guarantee and back load like Nate Clemments. We could for example sign Samuel CB and Lance Briggs OLB for 80 million each for 8 years. Guarantee three years and adjust bonus and first year salary too avoid huge cap hit. It is risky to give large guarantees but that may be a way in the future to decrease bonus. I think both players I mentioned are money in the bank.

Pray tell how exactly do you offer significant guarantees over three seasons on an 80 million total value contract - even if it's a phony 80 million and heavily backloaded - but still avoid a huge cap hit at some point in the term?

This is exactly what the Texans are not going to do btw... I would be highly pissed if they did. The only thing guaranteed with FA contracts like that is that they almost never pan out in favor of the team.

infantrycak
02-08-2008, 08:45 PM
Pray tell how exactly do you offer significant guarantees over three seasons on an 80 million total value contract - even if it's a phony 80 million and heavily backloaded - but still avoid a huge cap hit at some point in the term?

This is not an answer to your question, but passing along an interesting structure. When Nate Clements was signed he did not get a signing bonus, but a $10 mil roster bonus the 1st year and then a $10 mil bonus his second year. Doesn't avoid a huge cap hit (it is just at the front end) but it does allow the team after the first couple years to cut him at almost any time with no cap consequences at that time.

This is exactly what the Texans are not going to do btw... I would be highly pissed if they did. The only thing guaranteed with FA contracts like that is that they almost never pan out in favor of the team.

Hopefully they don't no matter how sexy it seems to many fans. I'd rather see the Texans go after upgrades that are the 2nd tiered FA's at their positions--solid upgrades with non-break the bank contracts.

aj.
02-08-2008, 08:52 PM
Doesn't avoid a huge cap hit .

That's my point. It can't be avoided on contracts like that.

If the 10 million in the second year is an option bonus, that means it's prorated over the remaining term and will be hanging over their heads as potential acceleration/dead money when the time comes to cut him ... just like Schaub's bonus next year.

Maddict5
02-08-2008, 09:08 PM
seeing the most talented team (SD) have the most cap made me cry a little inside :(

and how the hell do teams that spend big in FA and have high draft picks every yr (SF and CLE) have so much cap room?!!

infantrycak
02-08-2008, 09:28 PM
That's my point. It can't be avoided on contracts like that.

I agree it has to be taken somewhere.

If the 10 million in the second year is an option bonus, that means it's prorated over the remaining term and will be hanging over their heads as potential acceleration/dead money when the time comes to cut him ... just like Schaub's bonus next year.

Sorry, my bad--the 2nd year bonus is a roster bonus as well. So of $22.6 mil in guarantees, they will have paid $20 mil in the first two years. Don't know if it was just a function of having the space or structuring it so they can basically void the contract after year two, like when the back end silly years hit, at any time with little cap consequence.

Antoine Winfield had one of these a couple years ago--$10.8 mil guaranteed, but $10 mil came as a roster bonus one day after signing.

aj.
02-08-2008, 09:40 PM
Sorry, my bad--the 2nd year bonus is a roster bonus as well. So of $22.6 mil in guarantees, they will have paid $20 mil in the first two years.

...plus 4 million in base salary.

24 million over two seasons for one guy in the secondary, and the team is not as good now as when they signed him.

Nice to be Nate.

badboy
02-11-2008, 02:50 PM
My understanding is that bonus and guarantees are the way around salary cap. See Mario's deal. Players eat those up as it is money in their pockets for sure. Yes, there will be cap hit sooner or later, but by putting it off for a year or two will allow Chris Olsen to make his foot print on the team. This should be his first year involvement with free agent contracts. It is also possible that he can suggest some re-structuring of current contracts. The next two season should allow the team to cull more playerts

There are certain players that might make the Texans load up the Wells Fargo stage. Luckily the three spots we need, CB, LT and RB can be addressed in first, third and fourth even if no trade occurs. Any solid pick up in FA is gravy. I too am interested in 2nd tiered upgrades for reasonable $. It has been noted on MB that even those type are often over paid. My position is I would rather get one solid starter in FA such as Trufant than two or three backups and no starter. I have been pleased with Ric Smiths efforts so far and expect the same level of effort this off season.