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TheRealJoker
01-30-2008, 11:43 AM
One thing that our DL doesn't have is a space eating DT. Does anyone know of any FA candidates that can fill this hole on our DL to help our run defense? Every team in our division has an above average running game at the least, we really need to get a big run stuffing DT on our DL imo.

beerlover
01-30-2008, 11:56 AM
One thing that our DL doesn't have is a space eating DT. Does anyone know of any FA candidates that can fill this hole on our DL to help our run defense? Every team in our division has an above average running game at the least, we really need to get a big run stuffing DT on our DL imo.

http://www.theredzone.org/2008/freeagents/showposition.asp?Position=DT

V3rm0nt3r
01-30-2008, 12:06 PM
http://www.theredzone.org/2008/freeagents/showposition.asp?Position=DT

If Haynesworth leaves he'd fill in quite nicely and would take him away Tennesee.

Overalls
01-30-2008, 12:42 PM
If Haynesworth leaves he'd fill in quite nicely and would take him away Tennesee.

No to the face stomper.

Vinny
01-30-2008, 12:46 PM
Isaac Sopoaga is a guy who I wouldn't mind having around...but the 49ers have stated that they are going to try to keep him since Bryant Young is retiring. He's young and can handle the two gap assignment.

V3rm0nt3r
01-30-2008, 01:15 PM
No to the face stomper.

The guy is a great run stopper. when he was out with an injury this year the Titans went from a wall to a black hole. he screwed up, i'll give you that but his talant out weighs his negatives.

let me remind you about a guy named Randy Moss. attitude problems seemed to be his persona and then a 4th round trade sent him to a team where they don't take bull like that and he came in 2nd in MVP voting.

There are a few differences in these stories and Haynesworth wont get MVP but Kubiak needs to stop the run and this guy does it.

V3rm0nt3r
01-30-2008, 01:19 PM
another option is to go with another LB

Dan Connor will go around 18 and he can stop the run.

Goldensilence
01-30-2008, 01:36 PM
http://www.theredzone.org/2008/freeagents/showposition.asp?Position=DT

My choice would be probably be Tommy Kelly from the Raiders. Nice push but WIth Sapp retiring I'm supposing we'll miss out.

Ryan Sims from TB why does that sound familiar?

TheRealJoker
01-30-2008, 01:49 PM
My choice would be probably be Tommy Kelly from the Raiders. Nice push but WIth Sapp retiring I'm supposing we'll miss out.

Ryan Sims from TB why does that sound familiar?

Top 10 pick by the Chiefs. Julius Peppers' teammate at North Carolina.

Second Honeymoon
01-30-2008, 01:55 PM
I would have no problem signing Haynesworth or at least making the Titans pay through the nose to keep him. I don't think there is a chance in hell of it happening but I wouldn't be pissed if it did. At least bidding on him would make the Titans pay more to keep him. I like players that are mean and angry anyway. Charles Haley and Reggie White were the best i ever saw on the DL and both those guys were mean on and even sometimes off the field.

We need to get mean and knock this 'nice guy' 'good guys' Astros BS off. Its football not badminton.

jaayteetx
01-30-2008, 02:03 PM
I would have no problem signing Haynesworth or at least making the Titans pay through the nose to keep him. I don't think there is a chance in hell of it happening but I wouldn't be pissed if it did. At least bidding on him would make the Titans pay more to keep him. I like players that are mean and angry anyway. Charles Haley and Reggie White were the best i ever saw on the DL and both those guys were mean on and even sometimes off the field.

We need to get mean and knock this 'nice guy' 'good guys' Astros BS off. Its football not badminton.

Amen!

beerlover
01-30-2008, 02:06 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=2824

whats a back-up NT worth in FA?

TheRealJoker
01-30-2008, 02:11 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=2824

whats a back-up NT worth in FA?

A guy like that would be a good value for our football team I would think.

We are sorely lacking someone in the Sam Adams/Ted Washington/Grady Jackson mold that can clog up a hole and stand his ground on short yardage situations.

Texans_Chick
01-30-2008, 03:51 PM
One thing that our DL doesn't have is a space eating DT. Does anyone know of any FA candidates that can fill this hole on our DL to help our run defense? Every team in our division has an above average running game at the least, we really need to get a big run stuffing DT on our DL imo.

The more interesting question is whether DC Richard Smith even sees the need for a space eater. Yeah, he inherited a certain line, but GM Rick Smith usually throws a lot of guys at a position if they have a need to see if one of those guys fits. (see e.g. cornerbacks, wide receivers). He hasn't been bringing in any fat mens.

badboy
01-30-2008, 04:31 PM
So we either have a get to the QB DT such as Okoye and to some extent TJ or a fat boy plugging a hole? I thought all the yelling I heard for the last 2-3 years was for a rush the passer front four? Would it be nice if they could do both? Of course, but I do not see that a biggie now. As someone else said we have LBs to stop the run and a SS too.

aj.
01-30-2008, 07:07 PM
There has to be another Seth Payne out there somewhere, bench-pressing Holsteins on some random dairy farm.

b0ng
01-30-2008, 09:23 PM
A guy like that would be a good value for our football team I would think.

We are sorely lacking someone in the Sam Adams/Ted Washington/Grady Jackson mold that can clog up a hole and stand his ground on short yardage situations.

I only wish, but both Adams and Jackson are so freakin old that I don't think it would be worth even trying unless we are signing them for vet minimums.

Haynesworth is going to get the ol "Franchise" tag you can mark my words about that. A few of those names sounded nice, but definitely not anybody I would break the bank over.

TheRealJoker
01-30-2008, 10:03 PM
I only wish, but both Adams and Jackson are so freakin old that I don't think it would be worth even trying unless we are signing them for vet minimums.

Haynesworth is going to get the ol "Franchise" tag you can mark my words about that. A few of those names sounded nice, but definitely not anybody I would break the bank over.

That's why I said in that "mold" I think Adams/Jackson/Washington's best years are over. But if we can get a player with a similar skillset I think that is a huge upgrade to our run defense.

b0ng
01-30-2008, 10:10 PM
That's why I said in that "mold" I think Adams/Jackson/Washington's best years are over. But if we can get a player with a similar skillset I think that is a huge upgrade to our run defense.

Haha, I thought you meant mold as in being so old. . . nevermind :lion: <---wtf?

Anyway, I think that this year, we're probably not going to find that big rock in the middle of the D-line in the draft this year. If we end up with a big NT, then I think it'll end up being a fringe or moderate FA signing.

Maybe we can trade Anthony Weaver to Tennessee for Haynesworth straight up?

adam
01-30-2008, 10:52 PM
Haha, I thought you meant mold as in being so old. . . nevermind :lion: <---wtf?

Anyway, I think that this year, we're probably not going to find that big rock in the middle of the D-line in the draft this year. If we end up with a big NT, then I think it'll end up being a fringe or moderate FA signing.

Maybe we can trade Anthony Weaver to Tennessee for Haynesworth straight up?

Yes! While we're at, why don't we trade Ahman Green for Adrian Peterson?

AnthonyE
01-30-2008, 11:44 PM
Sam Adams. Anyone remember he interviewed with us late May last season?

I'd say he's a space eater and he has ties with Kubiak.

http://www.dispatch.com/2006/08/03/20060803-Pc-D6-0800.jpg

He eventually signed with Denver, but I believe they released him mid-season.

b0ng
01-30-2008, 11:56 PM
Yes! While we're at, why don't we trade Ahman Green for Adrian Peterson?

I bet we could get Trufant for Faggins!

Vinny
01-31-2008, 09:15 AM
Sam Adams. Anyone remember he interviewed with us late May last season?

I'd say he's a space eater and he has ties with Kubiak.

http://www.dispatch.com/2006/08/03/20060803-Pc-D6-0800.jpg

He eventually signed with Denver, but I believe they released him mid-season.
big 350 pounder going into his 15th NFL season? He was an excellent player in his day...but that day has passed.

Texans_Chick
01-31-2008, 09:27 AM
big 350 pounder going into his 15th NFL season? He was an excellent player in his day...but that day has passed.

I think the Texans only talked to him because he was a local guy and as a courtesy.

Goldensilence
01-31-2008, 09:39 AM
Still think if they were really interested in a space eating DT....Grady Jackson came available last season after ATL surprisingly cut him. I find it no coincidence about the same time they cut him John Abrahams production declined sharply.

Instead he went on to Jacksonville and did well enough for himself. Man that ATL loss still stings.

You would think if people on a message board could identify this as a need Richard Smith would.:gun:

Vinny
01-31-2008, 09:49 AM
Still think if they were really interested in a space eating DT....Grady Jackson came available last season after ATL surprisingly cut him. I find it no coincidence about the same time they cut him John Abrahams production declined sharply.

Instead he went on to Jacksonville and did well enough for himself. Man that ATL loss still stings.

You would think if people on a message board could identify this as a need Richard Smith would.:gun: I'm out on Jackson too...12 years in the league and nearly 400 pounds. Dude is only good for about 12 plays a game.

badboy
01-31-2008, 02:19 PM
big 350 pounder going into his 15th NFL season? He was an excellent player in his day...but that day has passed.
See, we funnel the RB to our "hog's" position and maybe the RB falls over our 350 pounder. Less tiring for our DT. I will nick name it the "stay in yo' place" defense.

TexansSeminole
01-31-2008, 03:21 PM
Isaac Sopoaga is a guy who I wouldn't mind having around...but the 49ers have stated that they are going to try to keep him since Bryant Young is retiring. He's young and can handle the two gap assignment.

Funny that you say that. I simulated a new franchise 2007 season with the Texans on Madden a week ago and this is the FA DT I picked up.

Never seen him play but his stats seemed to fit the 2 gap DT I was looking for.

awtysst
01-31-2008, 08:45 PM
I say lets sign Hakuhō Shō to be our 2 gap DT.
In case you don't know who he is he is a 22 year old sumo wrestler(a Yokozuna no less). He is 6'4 340. A sumo wrestler needs to know about how to push one guy out of a ring. I bet we could teach him how to eat space and push around 2 guys.

Added bonus: he is Mongolian, so we have opened a whole new Texans market!
Here he is.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Hakuho_May07.jpg/363px-Hakuho_May07.jpg

b0ng
01-31-2008, 09:36 PM
I say lets sign Hakuhō Shō to be our 2 gap DT.
In case you don't know who he is he is a 22 year old sumo wrestler(a Yokozuna no less). He is 6'4 340. A sumo wrestler needs to know about how to push one guy out of a ring. I bet we could teach him how to eat space and push around 2 guys.


I will go out on a limb and say that a talent scout would think his body looked "soft".

awtysst
02-01-2008, 12:28 AM
I will go out on a limb and say that a talent scout would think his body looked "soft".

Soft schmoft. I bet if you line him up against a Center and Guard he will get their attention. Besides a bunch of 2 gap Dts look "soft" around the mid section. Big boys can play too! Just ask this guy

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2004/players/09/20/sapp0927/p1_sapp.jpg

TexanSam
02-01-2008, 12:37 AM
That's why I said in that "mold" I think Adams/Jackson/Washington's best years are over. But if we can get a player with a similar skillset I think that is a huge upgrade to our run defense.

I'm no expert on defensive tackles so this may be a dumb question, but what was Zgonina brought in for?

TexansLucky13
02-01-2008, 01:08 AM
I'm no expert on defensive tackles so this may be a dumb question, but what was Zgonina brought in for?

I believe he is here just to fill the rotation. Also, I know we hear it too much but it is good to have some experience on the line. That's pretty much his story.

threetoedpete
02-01-2008, 04:04 AM
Here is the draft pool.

http://thefootballexpert.com/dtrankings2008.html

So we bring in Sean Rodgers and Sam Adams in, the fatest guy gets the
run stuffer gig ?



Well, I'm not the expert some are on Defenses or d-coordintors...my guess is they are tring to run the same type of scheme as they've run in denver for three decades. That is: you get your rush from you front four and you smash the bejesus out of the recivers with two very big monsterly size safties.

The common theme, reguadless of Kube's coach speak for the defense for the last five years....they send five or six...no one gets there. You can say the DC sucks...or you could say there is a very good reason there is a bridle on the DC's play book. There is no one on the roster who can cover a NFL reciever for four seconds. And all Manning needs is two and a half and the ball is out.

threetoedpete
02-01-2008, 04:06 AM
...

otisbean
02-01-2008, 08:30 AM
Here is the draft pool.

http://thefootballexpert.com/dtrankings2008.html

So we bring in Sean Rodgers and Sam Adams in, the fatest guy gets the
run stuffer gig ?



Well, I'm not the expert some are on Defenses or d-coordintors...my guess is they are tring to run the same type of scheme as they've run in denver for three decades. That is: you get your rush from you front four and you smash the bejesus out of the recivers with two very big monsterly size safties.

The common theme, reguadless of Kube's coach speak for the defense for the last five years....they send five or six...no one gets there. You can say the DC sucks...or you could say there is a very good reason there is a bridle on the DC's play book. There is no one on the roster who can cover a NFL reciever for four seconds. And all Manning needs is two and a half and the ball is out.

There's maybe five DBs in the league that can cover a WR for 4 secs. While we undoubtedly need DB help, we need an edge pass rusher to get pressure. Pressure is the key to stopping elite QBs.

Texans_Chick
02-01-2008, 10:34 AM
I'm no expert on defensive tackles so this may be a dumb question, but what was Zgonina brought in for?

Experience. A body. Someone who had played the game a long time and started many games. To scare people with his calves.

But, by DT standards, he is not a huge guy.

Vinny
02-01-2008, 10:49 AM
Experience. A body. Someone who had played the game a long time and started many games. To scare people with his calves.

But, by DT standards, he is not a huge guy.agreed...I'd describe his game as "workmanlike". He's at the end of his career but he probably helped the youngsters on the line in practice Monday-Friday more than he helped the team on game days. A real pro, but not a dominant figure in the middle.

threetoedpete
02-01-2008, 11:09 AM
If the Lions do trade Shaun Rogers, it is thought they'll ask for a proven player who can immediately fill one of the Lions' many defensive holes.
Booth Newspapers' Tom Kowalski mentions Bill Parcells as a potential suitor, noting that Parcells "gushed" about Rogers in conference calls before the Cowboys played the Lions. If the Lions can't find trade partner, Kowalski believes the Lions will give Rogers a weight limit and fine him if he doesn't meet it, a la Mike Williams. Feb. 1 - 10:58 a.m. ET
Source: MLive.com

http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/homesport.asp?sport=NFL

So I'm guesing he's around 360. With bad wheels.....and a substance wiff.

Goldensilence
02-01-2008, 11:47 AM
I'm out on Jackson too...12 years in the league and nearly 400 pounds. Dude is only good for about 12 plays a game.

Guess I was trying to say IF we wanted to address it as a need he could've been brought in relatively cheap. Not saying long term deal but It certainly would've helped us in a push to win a game or two more to have a guy like that in the rotation.He certainly helped the Jags.I'd like to steal Paul Spicer from them.

Well, I'm not the expert some are on Defenses or d-coordintors...my guess is they are tring to run the same type of scheme as they've run in denver for three decades. That is: you get your rush from you front four and you smash the bejesus out of the recivers with two very big monsterly size safties.

The common theme, reguadless of Kube's coach speak for the defense for the last five years....they send five or six...no one gets there. You can say the DC sucks...or you could say there is a very good reason there is a bridle on the DC's play book. There is no one on the roster who can cover a NFL reciever for four seconds. And all Manning needs is two and a half and the ball is out.


TTP Like and respect your opinion(can't rep you again) and think you're right about the front four and safeties. Could very well be why this staff hasn't chosen the more ball hawking type safeties when available. You spot on though if we want a shot at beating Manning regularly we're going to have to do something different i nthe secondary for them. Tennesse and Jacksonville don't worry me as much(unless Vince becomes a better passer).Garrard is efficient at QB and that's what they ask him to do but that offense is centered around the run.

badboy
02-01-2008, 01:03 PM
I say lets sign Hakuhō Shō to be our 2 gap DT.
In case you don't know who he is he is a 22 year old sumo wrestler(a Yokozuna no less). He is 6'4 340. A sumo wrestler needs to know about how to push one guy out of a ring. I bet we could teach him how to eat space and push around 2 guys.

Added bonus: he is Mongolian, so we have opened a whole new Texans market!
Here he is.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Hakuho_May07.jpg/363px-Hakuho_May07.jpgSee I agree but I would have him turn around and let his bare a-- face the offense. In that get up, the O line would just faint.

Honoring Earl 34
02-01-2008, 01:11 PM
I have not read the whole thread but anyone suggest trading TJ for Rogers straight up ?

TJ and Okoye are to much alike to me .

Rogers is listed at 340 but he'd lose 20 lbs in Houston just walking to the field .

badboy
02-01-2008, 01:22 PM
I have not read the whole thread but anyone suggest trading TJ for Rogers straight up ?

TJ and Okoye are to much alike to me .

Rogers is listed at 340 but he'd lose 20 lbs in Houston just walking to the field .I am confused over where this change for a dline that pressures the QB is coming from? I am down with have DTs that can rush the passer or stuff the RB, but few DTs do both. I thought the mantra was "Get to the QB(insert Peyton here)"?

Vinny
02-01-2008, 01:28 PM
I am confused over where this change for a dline that pressures the QB is coming from? I am down with have DTs that can rush the passer or stuff the RB, but few DTs do both. I thought the mantra was "Get to the QB(insert Peyton here)"?If you can't stop the run it doesn't matter if you can rush the QB well.

Texans_Chick
02-01-2008, 01:40 PM
I have not read the whole thread but anyone suggest trading TJ for Rogers straight up ?

TJ and Okoye are to much alike to me .

Rogers is listed at 340 but he'd lose 20 lbs in Houston just walking to the field .

Rogers is an interesting situation. They are unhappy with his contract and his work ethic and his weight. Had a drug suspension (allegedly appetite suppressants). He is a guy with signficiant Houston area ties.

That being said, Detroit claims they won't cut him despite media reports that say different--they will listen to offers.

Just off the top of my head, I can't imagine a straight up TJ-Rogers trade working out at all. Detroit wouldn't be interested in that, and the numbers wouldn't work for the Texans, especially adding a guy with a questioned work ethic.

Texans_Chick
02-01-2008, 01:47 PM
I am confused over where this change for a dline that pressures the QB is coming from? I am down with have DTs that can rush the passer or stuff the RB, but few DTs do both. I thought the mantra was "Get to the QB(insert Peyton here)"?

The most interesting part of the recent Kubiak/McClain video was the talk about building a defense for our division.

Because it isn't just Peyton. As he was talking about, you have to build to win in the entire division because it is so competitive and that's the only way you are going to make playoffs. Yeah, you need to stop Manning, but two teams in our division are run first ball control offenses. And defense becomes so important in the playoffs.

So, as I see it:

Against the Colts: Need to disrupt Manning and receiver timing. You need a smart secondary. You need a running game to keep him off the field. You need to be able to stop the run if they get a lead.

Against the Jags: Need to stop the run. Need disciplined defense. Need CBs who can matchup against tall receivers.

Against the Titans: Need to stop the run. Need disciplined defense. Need an offense that doesn't bail out the Titans by giving them short fields with turnovers.

The Texans secondary woes are just so obvious because of the big plays, but the lack of a consistent run defense is death by a thousand cuts.

badboy
02-01-2008, 02:13 PM
The most interesting part of the recent Kubiak/McClain video was the talk about building a defense for our division.

Because it isn't just Peyton. As he was talking about, you have to build to win in the entire division because it is so competitive and that's the only way you are going to make playoffs. Yeah, you need to stop Manning, but two teams in our division are run first ball control offenses. And defense becomes so important in the playoffs.

So, as I see it:

Against the Colts: Need to disrupt Manning and receiver timing. You need a smart secondary. You need a running game to keep him off the field. You need to be able to stop the run if they get a lead.

Against the Jags: Need to stop the run. Need disciplined defense. Need CBs who can matchup against tall receivers.

Against the Titans: Need to stop the run. Need disciplined defense. Need an offense that doesn't bail out the Titans by giving them short fields with turnovers.

The Texans secondary woes are just so obvious because of the big plays, but the lack of a consistent run defense is death by a thousand cuts.And I agree with this and was very happy when I read Kubes POV. I ,too, think the focus for now is not the Colts. But here's what I need help with; our linebacker defense is predicated on the will and sam being able to drop back into coverage. Not saying that who we have is best at that but that is the program. Weaver as well as Okoye and Mario were chosen to disrupt the passer; not stuff the run. Travis Johnson, I had no idea why he was drafted but now he fills the same function. With exception of Demeco, who else was brought aboard to stop the run? No one. We've gotten what we bought. Review the thread for last three years and most call for a defense to get after QB. Was this a mistake? Is Kubes going to change the philosophy?

Goldensilence
02-01-2008, 02:22 PM
I am confused over where this change for a dline that pressures the QB is coming from? I am down with have DTs that can rush the passer or stuff the RB, but few DTs do both. I thought the mantra was "Get to the QB(insert Peyton here)"?

I think the idea is to get one disruptive pass rusher type at DT(Amobi) and then another DT that can hold up the point for rushing.Think Reggie White and Gilbert Brown clogging the middle up.

Honoring Earl 34
02-01-2008, 02:23 PM
I am confused over where this change for a dline that pressures the QB is coming from? I am down with have DTs that can rush the passer or stuff the RB, but few DTs do both. I thought the mantra was "Get to the QB(insert Peyton here)"?

Famous Fat guys for 300 .

The Fridge
Gilbert Brown
Tony Siragusa
Sam Adams
Fats Holmes
Vince Wolfolk
John Matuzak
Michael Carter
Casey Hampton

what do they have in common ?

Honoring Earl 34
02-01-2008, 02:25 PM
And I agree with this and was very happy when I read Kubes POV. I ,too, think the focus for now is not the Colts. But here's what I need help with; our linebacker defense is predicated on the will and sam being able to drop back into coverage. Not saying that who we have is best at that but that is the program. Weaver as well as Okoye and Mario were chosen to disrupt the passer; not stuff the run. Travis Johnson, I had no idea why he was drafted but now he fills the same function. With exception of Demeco, who else was brought aboard to stop the run? No one. We've gotten what we bought. Review the thread for last three years and most call for a defense to get after QB. Was this a mistake? Is Kubes going to change the philosophy?

It's like TC posted about the division and each team . The way you beat the Colt's is not the way you beat the Jags .

Goldensilence
02-01-2008, 02:26 PM
Famous Fat guys for 300 .

The Fridge
Gilbert Brown
Tony Siragusa
Sam Adams
Fats Holmes
Vince Wolfolk
John Matuzak
Michael Carter
Casey Hampton

what do they have in common ?

Each has a ring?

leebigeztx
02-01-2008, 02:29 PM
Sopoaga from sf sounds good. A 5th for Rodgers sound good also. A grady jackson on 1st and 2nd down played well for jacksonville and led the lead in tfl's the last couple yrs. A guy taking up 2 blkers is very good which allows gguys to get 1 on 1's.

Vinny
02-01-2008, 03:43 PM
And I agree with this and was very happy when I read Kubes POV. I ,too, think the focus for now is not the Colts. But here's what I need help with; our linebacker defense is predicated on the will and sam being able to drop back into coverage. Not saying that who we have is best at that but that is the program. Weaver as well as Okoye and Mario were chosen to disrupt the passer; not stuff the run. Travis Johnson, I had no idea why he was drafted but now he fills the same function. With exception of Demeco, who else was brought aboard to stop the run? No one. We've gotten what we bought. Review the thread for last three years and most call for a defense to get after QB. Was this a mistake? Is Kubes going to change the philosophy?Weaver has never been a pass rusher. In 6 years of playing in the NFL his season high is 5 sacks.

badboy
02-01-2008, 03:51 PM
I think the idea is to get one disruptive pass rusher type at DT(Amobi) and then another DT that can hold up the point for rushing.Think Reggie White and Gilbert Brown clogging the middle up.

I get that, but do you really think Kubes or Smith will push aside or trade first round pick Okoye or TJ? Of the two, it would be TJ and I'd be very surprised if that happened. Now if you guys are saying sign a cheap free agent for running plays... ok.

badboy
02-01-2008, 03:59 PM
Weaver has never been a pass rusher. In 6 years of playing in the NFL his season high is 5 sacks.So you are saying he was signed for his run stopping ability? I think I remember Weaver saying how much the move to DE would let him use his abilities to get to the QB when he became a Texan. Not disagreeing Vinny, just reminding all what happened. We have clammored for a QB pressuring Dline for years. Now that we have the best we have had imo, we want to change? I am NOT saying a DT that can do both would not be an asset. It would. But from Weaver through Okoye, the focus was on rushers, not tacklers. Same goes for linebackers. The same three teams are in our division and their offenses have not undergone radical transformations. Maybe, we should have been going for more of a run stopper than Okoye? BPA maybe did not work with this pick?

Vinny
02-01-2008, 04:02 PM
I get that, but do you really think Kubes or Smith will push aside or trade first round pick Okoye or TJ? Of the two, it would be TJ and I'd be very surprised if that happened. Now if you guys are saying sign a cheap free agent for running plays... ok.
no, why would he? I think it is just silly to even think he would consider trading Okoye and TJ will get a box of cracker jacks and his salary isn't all that high considering he had a pretty decent year last season.....but these guys basically play the same position. Both are considered 3-technique tackles. These guys are generally smaller than most tackles but are quicker penetrators who shoot gaps. Most teams have one tackle that is the "rush" DT and another Tackle that keeps the Guards off the linebackers...Okoye and TJ are both gap shooting types.

badboy
02-01-2008, 04:13 PM
no, why would he? I think it is just silly to even think he would consider trading Okoye and TJ will get a box of cracker jacks and his salary isn't all that high considering he had a pretty decent year last season.....but these guys basically play the same position. Both are considered 3-technique tackles. These guys are generally smaller than most tackles but are quicker penetrators who shoot gaps. Most teams have one tackle that is the "rush" DT and another Tackle that keeps the Guards off the linebackers...Okoye and TJ are both gap shooting types.Yes, but you have not addressed my question and I value your opinion. Was it a mistake to sign Weaver, TJ, Mario and Okoye and not have any run stoppers? I mean at end of season Killings was the heaviest on roster at 310. Added to that the backers are light to fall back and cover. Was this a coaching philosophy error or just BPA? Also, are you suggesting rotating TJ and Okoye and bringing in a heavy banger at the other DT spot?

Honoring Earl 34
02-01-2008, 04:28 PM
Yes, but you have not addressed my question and I value your opinion. Was it a mistake to sign Weaver, TJ, Mario and Okoye and not have any run stoppers? I mean at end of season Killings was the heaviest on roster at 310. Added to that the backers are light to fall back and cover. Was this a coaching philosophy error or just BPA? Also, are you suggesting rotating TJ and Okoye and bringing in a heavy banger at the other DT spot?

Weaver is a DE in a 3-4 defense .

You can put this under CC I bet .

Goldensilence
02-01-2008, 04:49 PM
Yes, but you have not addressed my question and I value your opinion. Was it a mistake to sign Weaver, TJ, Mario and Okoye and not have any run stoppers? I mean at end of season Killings was the heaviest on roster at 310. Added to that the backers are light to fall back and cover. Was this a coaching philosophy error or just BPA? Also, are you suggesting rotating TJ and Okoye and bringing in a heavy banger at the other DT spot?

I think Okoye was a decision of BPA, youth and upside. I think most people are on board with Mario Williams now.

TJ had a decent year and seemed to get it. This was his second year back in the 4-3 as opposed to a 3-4. Thanks Again Dom.

Weaver was a carry over from Capers and was brought in to be a 3-4 DE. So that one isn't on Kubiak.

I think we had our hands tied last year carrying over from bad salary cap decisions. We will be in a better position this year to improve via FA is we so choose to. Looks like we're stuck with RIchard Smith again this year so I'd like to see improvement and what Richard Smith thinks what a defense should look like.

If Dom gets in Dallas I would like to offer him Weaver and Greenwood for Marcus Spears.

Honoring Earl 34
02-01-2008, 04:54 PM
I think Okoye was a decision of BPA, youth and upside. I think most people are on board with Mario Williams now.

TJ had a decent year and seemed to get it. This was his second year back in the 4-3 as opposed to a 3-4. Thanks Again Dom.

Weaver was a carry over from Capers and was brought in to be a 3-4 DE. So that one isn't on Kubiak.

I think we had our hands tied last year carrying over from bad salary cap decisions. We will be in a better position this year to improve via FA is we so choose to. Looks like we're stuck with RIchard Smith again this year so I'd like to see improvement and what Richard Smith thinks what a defense should look like.

If Dom gets in Dallas I would like to offer him Weaver and Greenwood for Marcus Spears.


I think if TJ was all that then they would'nt have drafted Amobi .

TJ was drafted to be a DE in the 3-4 .

We did'nt need no stinking Jamaal Brown ... he can't play LT .... does'nt fit our system .

badboy
02-01-2008, 04:58 PM
I think Okoye was a decision of BPA, youth and upside. I think most people are on board with Mario Williams now.

TJ had a decent year and seemed to get it. This was his second year back in the 4-3 as opposed to a 3-4. Thanks Again Dom.

Weaver was a carry over from Capers and was brought in to be a 3-4 DE. So that one isn't on Kubiak.

I think we had our hands tied last year carrying over from bad salary cap decisions. We will be in a better position this year to improve via FA is we so choose to. Looks like we're stuck with RIchard Smith again this year so I'd like to see improvement and what Richard Smith thinks what a defense should look like.

If Dom gets in Dallas I would like to offer him Weaver and Greenwood for Marcus Spears.I agree and think we are in very good shape on Dline considering. Okoye was an answer for TJ and it seems to have worked. Weaver was not my answer when signed and has disappointed. I wished Kubes would have a TJ talk with Weaver.

Honoring Earl 34
02-01-2008, 05:03 PM
I agree and think we are in very good shape on Dline considering. Okoye was an answer for TJ and it seems to have worked. Weaver was not my answer when signed and has disappointed. I wished Kubes would have a TJ talk with Weaver.

I think Maddux and Earl Cochran are just as good and a much better value than TJ and Weaver .

Cochran 26 = tackles and 1 sack
Weaver = 41 tackles
TJ = 41 tackles
Maddox = 16 tackles and 2 sacks

Polo
02-01-2008, 05:06 PM
Weaver isn't a bad player...

I just don't think he's what we need on the other side of Mario...

Not really a good fit for us IMO, but I'm willing to see how he performs next year after having a while to get over the shoulder thingy...

feebleminded
02-01-2008, 05:18 PM
Weaver was a carry over from Capers and was brought in to be a 3-4 DE. So that one isn't on Kubiak.

Capers was long gone by the time Weaver was signed. You may be confused because Baltimore changed from a 4-3 to a 3-4 back to a 4-3 while he was there.

The decision to sign Weaver was made because the DL on the roster were 3-4 type players. And clearly the decision was made before they decided to draft Mario Williams.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2364565

Honoring Earl 34
02-01-2008, 05:22 PM
Capers was long gone by the time Weaver was signed. You may be confused because Baltimore changed from a 4-3 to a 3-4 back to a 4-3 while he was there.

The decision to sign Weaver was made because the DL on the roster were 3-4 type players. And clearly the decision was made before they decided to draft Mario Williams.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2364565

I looked it up ... Weaver was signed 3/11/06 . Kubiak was the Coach by then .

This is a CC special ... along with Todd Wade .

TEXANS84
02-01-2008, 05:30 PM
I believe Weaver was the #1 or #2 rated FA DE available in FA that year he was signed.

Honoring Earl 34
02-01-2008, 05:33 PM
I believe Weaver was the #1 or #2 rated FA DE available in FA that year he was signed.

I think the point is , he's fairly expensive and he plays Mario's best position .

Vinny
02-03-2008, 03:17 PM
Yes, but you have not addressed my question and I value your opinion. Was it a mistake to sign Weaver, TJ, Mario and Okoye and not have any run stoppers? I mean at end of season Killings was the heaviest on roster at 310. Added to that the backers are light to fall back and cover. Was this a coaching philosophy error or just BPA? Also, are you suggesting rotating TJ and Okoye and bringing in a heavy banger at the other DT spot?
Weaver was brought in to be the strong side DE in the 43 after we converted...and he has been a disappointment (in production)...so yeah, I think it was a mistake to sigh him at that cap hit. We needed a DE to rush the passer so Mario wasn't a mistake, and we needed a 3 technique guy inside so if Okoye can show he can stop the run better in the coming seasons he wasn't a mistake either. I do think we need a guy we can play for 25 or so plays in short yardage and in goal line situations that is a space eater though. Weaver is a tweener...he is best suited for DE in a 3-4 defense imo.I believe Weaver was the #1 or #2 rated FA DE available in FA that year he was signed.
That doesn't mean anything sometimes. If you are the best of a bad FA class...that doesn't mean you are gonna be any good. It just means you are the best player in a bad group.

BSofA04
02-03-2008, 05:35 PM
I'm sure this has been discuseed here in this thread, but moving Weaver inside to clog the running lane wouldn't be a bad idea. We all know that TJ has the ability to be a great DT in this league, but he has very little stamina and will tire by the time the 4th quarter rolls around. Can Weaver rotate in as a 2 gap DT?

First of all, some simple questions must asked....what is the staus with his shoulder? It certaintly didn't appear to be 100% last year. Is it 100% healed now? Does he favor it a little? Is he hesitent to make contact? Is he leading with his helmet too much? These are big questions that the Texans must answer if we're going to get any significant production out of Weaver.

FYI, I supported the signing of Weaver but admittingly, I'm disappointed in his production like most people.

TexansSeminole
02-03-2008, 05:37 PM
I'm sure this has been discuseed here in this thread, but moving Weaver inside to clog the running lane wouldn't be a bad idea. We all know that TJ has the ability to be a great DT in this league, but he has very little stamina and will tire by the time the 4th quarter rolls around. The biggest question I have is his shoulder. Is it 100% healed? Does he favor it a little? Is he hesitent to make contact? Is he leading with his helmet too much? These are big questions that the Texans must answer if we're going to get any significant production out of Weaver.

FYI, I supported the signing of Weaver but admittingly, I'm disappointed in his production like most people.

Weaver couldn't play DT when Okoye was in. Those two together vs a run sounds like disaster. We need a beefier DT to be on the field when Okoye is out there, someone to eat the guard and center up.

BSofA04
02-03-2008, 05:45 PM
Weaver couldn't play DT when Okoye was in. Those two together vs a run sounds like disaster. We need a beefier DT to be on the field when Okoye is out there, someone to eat the guard and center up.

I'm sure that my statement would be dependent on Okoye's advancement in year #2. So I agree with you, at this point it would be a disaster. It's a matter of getting contributions from a guy who's making some significant $$$$. Maybe more effective as a DT?? Who knows. As far as a DE, he seems slow. I know he can be better, but his health SHOULD be questioned this offseason.

BigBull17
02-07-2008, 12:28 PM
I believe Weaver was the #1 or #2 rated FA DE available in FA that year he was signed.

Thus the reason Im totally against signing big money FA...:gun:

Texans_Chick
02-07-2008, 03:39 PM
I'm sure this has been discuseed here in this thread, but moving Weaver inside to clog the running lane wouldn't be a bad idea. We all know that TJ has the ability to be a great DT in this league, but he has very little stamina and will tire by the time the 4th quarter rolls around. Can Weaver rotate in as a 2 gap DT?

First of all, some simple questions must asked....what is the staus with his shoulder? It certaintly didn't appear to be 100% last year. Is it 100% healed now? Does he favor it a little? Is he hesitent to make contact? Is he leading with his helmet too much? These are big questions that the Texans must answer if we're going to get any significant production out of Weaver.

FYI, I supported the signing of Weaver but admittingly, I'm disappointed in his production like most people.


He is not the right size to play DT. And he hates playing DT and only played it when the Texans have few alternatives at that position.

I think it is good of you to bring up the situation with Weaver's shoulder. He apparently had TWO surgeries on it. Functioning shoulders are a pretty important thing for a defensive lineman. And the shoulders can be tricky to come back from. Hard to say what Weaver's 2007 would have been like had he been more functioning.

Generally speaking, teams will be able to keep the free agents they really want to keep because teams have figured the cap, and you have to hope you luck out getting a guy who is a good fit with the other guys you already have.

Vinny
02-12-2008, 10:23 AM
He is not the right size to play DT. And he hates playing DT and only played it when the Texans have few alternatives at that position.

I think it is good of you to bring up the situation with Weaver's shoulder. He apparently had TWO surgeries on it. Functioning shoulders are a pretty important thing for a defensive lineman. And the shoulders can be tricky to come back from. Hard to say what Weaver's 2007 would have been like had he been more functioning.

Generally speaking, teams will be able to keep the free agents they really want to keep because teams have figured the cap, and you have to hope you luck out getting a guy who is a good fit with the other guys you already have.
after the knees, the shoulders do most big guys in as it pertains to lineplay since after a good base, you have to be able to torque and punch those big 300+ pounders on the line. Heck, the shoulder is easy to hurt simply by lifting weights improperly since there are three heads that balance out this delicate joint...I have known a ton of lifters that had bad shoulders over the years. Tony Boselli may still be playing if not for his bad shoulders.

Texans_Chick
02-12-2008, 11:11 AM
after the knees, the shoulders do most big guys in as it pertains to lineplay since after a good base, you have to be able to torque and punch those big 300+ pounders on the line. Heck, the shoulder is easy to hurt simply by lifting weights improperly since there are three heads that balance out this delicate joint...I have known a ton of lifters that had bad shoulders over the years. Tony Boselli may still be playing if not for his bad shoulders.

Trying to impress on the bench press. Number 1 enemy of shoulder health.

beerlover
02-12-2008, 12:20 PM
How about Corey Williams, Packers 6040 313 DT? :thisbig:

http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080212/PKR01/802120468/1989

here are his numbers

http://www.packers.com/team/players/williams_corey/

Dallas_Texan
02-12-2008, 12:41 PM
TexanSeminole threw out Keith Traylor. At first I thought he was so old there was no chance, but he would be a good DT to throw in on running situations. The guy is 6'2" and 340 lbs!! He's a monster.

Lucky
02-12-2008, 01:00 PM
TexanSeminole threw out Keith Traylor. At first I thought he was so old...
He is so old (39 by Week 1). But, Traylor is a former Bronco. So there's always a chance.

Vinny
02-12-2008, 01:01 PM
TexanSeminole threw out Keith Traylor. At first I thought he was so old there was no chance, but he would be a good DT to throw in on running situations. The guy is 6'2" and 340 lbs!! He's a monster.
he's closer to 370 than 340...and he is nearly 40 years old. Old and fat isn't a good combination in pro sports.

texasguy346
02-12-2008, 01:05 PM
he's closer to 370 than 340...and he is nearly 40 years old. Old and fat isn't a good combination in pro sports.

Except baseball.

Signed,
David Wells

The Pencil Neck
02-12-2008, 02:12 PM
I have known a ton of lifters that had bad shoulders over the years.

Don't get me started.

I know more about the acromioclavicular joint, the infraspinatus, supraspinatus, subscapularis, and teres minor muscles than any man should know.

TK_Gamer
02-12-2008, 02:29 PM
personally I dont think Kubiak wants a big guy in that role, he prefers versatile D-lineman he can rotate and send pressure from different looks. I think either TJ or Mario can fill the runstuffer role when needed, we just dont have a clear cut "this is your job" guy. JMO

BSofA04
02-13-2008, 11:15 PM
Right now there doesn't seem to be anyone worth signing that can handle a 2-gap assignment through FA. I don't see us drafting a DT considering the major holes in the secondary and runningback. And I also think they'd consider another DE before a DT. We might be posied with the TJ/Maddox, Okoye interior next season. I suppose it could be worse.

TheRealJoker
04-27-2008, 02:44 PM
One thing that our DL doesn't have is a space eating DT. Does anyone know of any FA candidates that can fill this hole on our DL to help our run defense? Every team in our division has an above average running game at the least, we really need to get a big run stuffing DT on our DL imo.

Welcome to the team Frank Okam!!!:smiliedance:

BSofA04
04-27-2008, 03:15 PM
Yep, welcome Frank Okam. I was wrong in my previous post, but I'm kinda glad. Okam has the potential to start over TJ. Great pick!

adam
04-27-2008, 04:17 PM
I like the Frank Okam pick. As a UT fan, I've been watching him play for awhile; and I can say he is exactly what he is: a very large man than can cause problems in the back field. We could have done worse.

thunderkyss
04-27-2008, 09:10 PM
I'm really excited about Frank Okam. We've done pretty good defensively against scat backs, and runners who try to get to the outside. Our problem has been the bruisers who run up the middle.

I think Okam will change that.

I'm probably most excited about this pick in the entire draft.

Second Honeymoon
04-27-2008, 09:14 PM
I'm really excited about Frank Okam. We've done pretty good defensively against scat backs, and runners who try to get to the outside. Our problem has been the bruisers who run up the middle.

I think Okam will change that.

I'm probably most excited about this pick in the entire draft.

i gotta agree with ya. if we could find an edge rusher we could add him to Williams/Okoye/Okam in the future.

they could call the DT unit the OK Corral for OKoye and OKam

i love getting 1st Round type talent in the 5th Round...its nice

edo783
04-27-2008, 09:37 PM
Frank "The Buffet" Okam. If they can motivate him, he could be the space eater that we have needed to stop the run up the middle. If it works out that way, look for DeMeco's sack numbers to go up along with the TFLs.