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Wolf
01-28-2008, 11:19 PM
they gave Texans a "c" in April and January a "C" also

First-round DT Amobi Okoye was no surprise, but fourth-round CB Fred Bennett was. Okoye finished ninth among NFL defensive tackles with 5 sacks. Bennett worked his way into the lineup by midseason and intercepted three passes, broke up 14 others and forced two fumbles.


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/columnists/rgosselin/stories/012408dnsponflreport.309763d.html

Texan_Bill
01-29-2008, 07:53 AM
First-round DT Amobi Okoye was no surprise, but fourth-round CB Fred Bennett was. Okoye finished ninth among NFL defensive tackles with 5 sacks. Bennett worked his way into the lineup by midseason and intercepted three passes, broke up 14 others and forced two fumbles.

Sounded pretty decent to me..... I might give it a grade slightly above 'average' - maybe a C+ or B-

nunusguy
01-29-2008, 08:19 AM
"Sitting on perfection with nine draft picks, the Patriots were selecting players to cut them – and did. Six of them. Two others wound up on injured reserve. First-round draft pick Brandon Meriweather was the lone survivor from this draft class and didn't start a game. "
************************
I found Draft-guru Gosselins remarks about the Pats very interesting as he points out that the team with (allegedly) one of the best eyes for potential
NFL talent had a real whiff in its 2007 Draft because any team in the league,
even the best, should not need to release 2/3rds of its Draft class in the rookies first year. Especially a team getting as long in the tooth as the Pats.

Vinny
01-29-2008, 08:50 AM
"Sitting on perfection with nine draft picks, the Patriots were selecting players to cut them – and did. Six of them. Two others wound up on injured reserve. First-round draft pick Brandon Meriweather was the lone survivor from this draft class and didn't start a game. "
************************
I found Draft-guru Gosselins remarks about the Pats very interesting as he points out that the team with (allegedly) one of the best eyes for potential
NFL talent had a real whiff in its 2007 Draft because any team in the league,
even the best, should not need to release 2/3rds of its Draft class in the rookies first year. Especially a team getting as long in the tooth as the Pats.
all teams whiff on talent....I've followed the league for a long time and never seen a team not whiff on talent. One good thing I'll say about the Pats is that they didn't throw good money after bad by having an ego so large that they can't admit their picks weren't as good as their existing players.

I was kinda disappointed in Okoye over the course of the year but I expected him to struggle....hopefully he will eventually be able to play the run and not only be a situational pass rushing DT.

nunusguy
01-29-2008, 09:21 AM
all teams whiff on talent....I've followed the league for a long time and never seen a team not whiff on talent. One good thing I'll say about the Pats is that they didn't throw good money after bad by having an ego so large that they can't admit their picks weren't as good as their existing players.

I was kinda disappointed in Okoye over the course of the year but I expected him to struggle....hopefully he will eventually be able to play the run and not only be a situational pass rushing DT.
Well I dunno, so you tell me. If a team is cutting 2/3 rds of an entire Draft class in their rookie year a high fatality rate, or just about par for the course ?
Regarding Okoye, I think his rookie year was every bit as good as Marios ?

WesmanTexanfan
01-29-2008, 09:22 AM
HOW THE F' DO YOU GET AN A THEN????

JJ, Okoye, and bennet.... at least a B.....

Ole Miss Texan
01-29-2008, 09:39 AM
I'd give us probably a C+.

As for the Pats...seems they're kind of in a hard spot. For each player they draft, it seems for the most part they're going to have to find an active player to cut. They're a great team with solid depth so they'd be cutting solid depth that is a 'known' for an untested 5th/6th/7th round picks? I think they're doing just fine...but yes everybody whiffs on some picks.

Lucky
01-29-2008, 09:54 AM
Gosselin's Atlanta Falcon's grade
April grade: B

January grade: A+ The season was a wash, and coach Bobby Petrino walked out in December. But he did the franchise one big favor – he played his youth. Six of the eight draft picks started games, with DE Jamal Anderson, G Justin Blalock and CB Chris Houston all becoming primary starters. A+? Yeah, the Falcons' rookies played. But, they didn't play that well. The 2002 Texans rookie class had 7 picks that started games. How did that eventually turnout? Right now, I'm not trading the Texans top 3 rookies for the Falcons'. Gosselin's sources are nearly impeccable. But, his analysis is as sketchy as any pro football writer's.

ArlingtonTexan
01-29-2008, 10:14 AM
Well I dunno, so you tell me. If a team is cutting 2/3 rds of an entire Draft class in their rookie year a high fatality rate, or just about par for the course ?
Regarding Okoye, I think his rookie year was every bit as good as Marios ?

It is par for the course when most of your class is drafted in the 6th and 7th round. Remember they traded a 2nd for welker and 4th for Moss. The 2007 draft class was hardly a failure.

1 24 Brandon Meriweather DB Miami (Fla.)
4 127 Kareem Brown DT Miami (Fla.)
5 171 Clint Oldenburg T Colorado State
6 180 Justin Rogers LB Southern Methodist
6 202 Mike Richardson DB Notre Dame
6 208 Justise Hairston RB Central Connecticut State
6 209 Corey Hilliard OT Oklahoma State
7 211 Oscar Lua LB USC
7 247 Mike Elgin G Iowa

Vinny
01-29-2008, 10:18 AM
Well I dunno, so you tell me. If a team is cutting 2/3 rds of an entire Draft class in their rookie year a high fatality rate, or just about par for the course ?
Regarding Okoye, I think his rookie year was every bit as good as Marios ?

It is par for the course when most of your class is drafted in the 6th and 7th round. Remember they traded a 2nd for welker and 4th for Moss. The 2007 draft class was hardly a failure.

1 24 Brandon Meriweather DB Miami (Fla.)
4 127 Kareem Brown DT Miami (Fla.)
5 171 Clint Oldenburg T Colorado State
6 180 Justin Rogers LB Southern Methodist
6 202 Mike Richardson DB Notre Dame
6 208 Justise Hairston RB Central Connecticut State
6 209 Corey Hilliard OT Oklahoma State
7 211 Oscar Lua LB USC
7 247 Mike Elgin G Iowa
excellent post Sly

nunusguy
01-29-2008, 11:41 AM
excellent post Sly
Yes it was Sly, er, I mean ArlingtonTexan. Huh ? Wait a minute here.
Is the relatively mild-mannered moderator operating under the ArlingtonTexan moniker one in the same provokative SLY over on the HPF Board ?

Maddict5
01-29-2008, 12:28 PM
Gosselin's Atlanta Falcon's grade
A+? Yeah, the Falcons' rookies played. But, they didn't play that well. The 2002 Texans rookie class had 7 picks that started games. How did that eventually turnout? Right now, I'm not trading the Texans top 3 rookies for the Falcons'. Gosselin's sources are nearly impeccable. But, his analysis is as sketchy as any pro football writer's.

exactly.. was just going to post the same thing- he based it on playing time only not quality of the play

beerlover
01-29-2008, 01:04 PM
Gosselins time of year, look forward to his input. its hard to evaluate the Texans draft based on the injurys. Brandon Harrison never made it out of tc, Jacoby looked like he was on track before the shoulder seperation to make the all rookie team while Studdard, Frye & Diles always seemed knicked up when playing time became available. Okoye solidified the D-Line & was key to Mario's break-out season while Bennett virtually saved the season for the Texans when Dunta was lost. never mentioned Schaub who was our 2nd rd. replacement. :cool:

Wolf
01-29-2008, 01:10 PM
Gosselins time of year, look forward to his input. its hard to evaluate the Texans draft based on the injurys. Brandon Harrison never made it out of tc, Jacoby looked like he was on track before the shoulder seperation to make the all rookie team while Studdard, Frye & Diles always seemed knicked up when playing time became available. Okoye solidified the D-Line & was key to Mario's break-out season while Bennett virtually saved the season for the Texans when Dunta was lost. never mentioned Schaub who was our 2nd rd. replacement. :cool:

agreed. I am hoping okoye makes similar strides like mario and be over "the rookie wall" and heck he will have a full offseason with the Texans and be what 20 when the season starts?

jacoby did seem very hesitant after the injury.

ObsiWan
01-29-2008, 01:15 PM
HOW THE F' DO YOU GET AN A THEN????

JJ, Okoye, and bennet.... at least a B.....

I'm with you on this one. They admitted Okoye was as advertised and that Bennett stepped up to be Dunta, Jr.

But not even partial credit for J.J.? ...at least until he got hurt.

Then there's Zack Diles; its not his fault that last year's Defensive RotY is in the spot he normally would play (and no, I'm not saying he would be as good as DeMeco).

And Darius Walker contributed positively when he fiiiinally got a shot....

And that's not counting Studdard who played well but couldn't stay off the injury list - I've no issue with that.

But a "C"?? I mean they gave the Packers a "B" solely due to a kicker!

ArlingtonTexan
01-29-2008, 01:17 PM
Yes it was Sly, er, I mean ArlingtonTexan. Huh ? Wait a minute here.
Is the relatively mild-mannered moderator operating under the ArlingtonTexan moniker one in the same provokative SLY over on the HPF Board ?

Actually, my name over there is BeaumontTexan, but when I moved up here, I changed my name on this one and never bothered over there.

Unfortunately, that poster does use the shortened version of my real first name. :brickwall:

beerlover
01-29-2008, 01:47 PM
I don't have major issues with the Texans grade as with most clubs its just premature & reflects actual production for their rookie season only without projecting forward, but I do have issue with another team who really got outstanding production from their draft picks & who are still playing, the Giants.

He gave them a C in April & a D in Januray-

First-round CB Aaron Ross and seventh-round safety Michael Johnson worked their way into the starting lineup of a top-10 defense, and fifth-round TE Kevin Boss gave the Giants insurance when Jeremy Shockey's season ended with a fractured fibula

they would not be in the Super Bowl if not from their rookie contributions. we all remember Ross from Texas, looked to me like he was playing hurt, all he did was man up play through pain, coming up huge in the secondary that had been considered a weakness. I loved Steve Smith coming out of USC as a #2 position WR like the Colts Anthony Gonzalez. he made some big catches that has helped the Giants move the chains in key situations.

I remember last year @ the combine watching Kevin Boss run his forty & other skill tests like receiving, adjusting to the ball & running after the catch, one of the most impressive later round prospects in the draft from Western Oregon? I just knew he was going to make some team. then Shockey goes down & he gets his chance, the Giants are a better team with him in the game, more complete. excellent blocker, sure hands, will go over the middle , red zone wherever you need him & will be a load to bring down. looks like he put on 15-20 lbs since last year too.

Rick did mention Michael Johnson, very inspirational gives them secondary depth but made no mention of fellow 7th rd. RB selection Ahmad Bradshaw. Rick Smith can only hope to find similar talent that late in the draft. so in this exteme case I'm fine with the April grade of C because you don't know what anyone is gonna do yet, but here in Januray helping their team make it as a wildcard into the Super Bowl warrants at least a "B" if not "A"

ok I feel better now :rofl:

PHAROAH
01-29-2008, 02:15 PM
Amobe & Bennett played well I hope that we keep it up in this years draft.

Texans_Chick
01-29-2008, 03:25 PM
He doesn't give his criteria for what gets a team a better grade. I'm guessing from reading through this that it is whether the rookies play significant time.

Generally speaking, this will tend to lead to better grades for teams with worse existing talent.

As for Okoye, I am in the middle of writing up a review of his season at FanHouse. I'll put that in this thread when I'm done.

nunusguy
01-29-2008, 04:39 PM
Actually, my name over there is BeaumontTexan, but when I moved up here, I changed my name on this one and never bothered over there.

Unfortunately, that poster does use the shortened version of my real first name. :brickwall:

OK, thanks for the clarification. And Vinny also explained it to me earlier.

b0ng
01-29-2008, 07:27 PM
A lot of the grades around the league were pretty low according to this writer so I'm not worried about what he thought of our rookies.

Okoye looks to be the part, and I really can't remember the last time a rookie DT set the league on fire. He definitely looked winded about halfway through the season, but I beleive that is just an effect of being a rookie in the NFL.

I will say Okoye has produced more in his first year, than Travis Johnson has ever.

kastofsna
01-29-2008, 07:32 PM
i'm guessing he thinks that the teams who had the most rookies see playing time are more prepared down the road. and that's how he grades em? i dunno.

painekiller
01-29-2008, 08:40 PM
excellent post Sly

That's funny....:whip:

b0ng
01-29-2008, 09:36 PM
That's funny....:whip:

I have no idea why you guys would even have that other Sly on anything but "ignore".

threetoedpete
01-30-2008, 01:33 AM
i'm guessing he thinks that the teams who had the most rookies see playing time are more prepared down the road. and that's how he grades em? i dunno.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/NFC/NFC+South/Atlanta/WWHI/default.htm

After racking up seven sacks in his first 10 games, Falcons DE John Abraham’s production has declined. He has just one sack in the last five games. We hear his slump is due in large part to the injuries the team’s defensive line has suffered. Abraham is the only pass-rush threat left on Atlanta’s front four, and the opposition has thrown two and three blockers his way on passing downs to slow him. The Falcons’ other starting defensive end, rookie first-round pick Jamaal Anderson, is still without a sack and has failed to take any pressure off Abraham.

Another bone I would pick with 'ol Rich, with out Ugoh and Gonzales, the Colts flame out the very minute that Marvin Harrison gets gimpy. They saved thier '07 season with those two picks.

I guess it's easier to blast than to man up and admit when you are/were wrong ?

Texans_Chick
01-30-2008, 10:27 AM
FanHouse did grades on all the first round picks. Here's my write up of Amobi Okoye:

NFL First-Round Recap: Houston Texans (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/01/30/nfl-first-round-recap-houston-texans/)

I tried to be fair. It's really hard to assess Okoye due to the position he plays on the field is hard for a rookie to excel. And the hot/cold nature of his season.

beerlover
01-30-2008, 10:52 AM
FanHouse did grades on all the first round picks. Here's my write up of Amobi Okoye:

NFL First-Round Recap: Houston Texans (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/01/30/nfl-first-round-recap-houston-texans/)

I tried to be fair. It's really hard to assess Okoye due to the position he plays on the field is hard for a rookie to excel. And the hot/cold nature of his season.

nice write up :)

first year for DT position may be the most difficult to access after only one season. he did play in every game, probably played through some pain, has interior pass rushing skills which are highly valued but as you pointed out he needs a two-gap space eater next to him @ tackle that would springboard his production as Amobi did for Mario this year.

indiantexan
01-30-2008, 11:42 AM
He doesn't give his criteria for what gets a team a better grade. I'm guessing from reading through this that it is whether the rookies play significant time.

Generally speaking, this will tend to lead to better grades for teams with worse existing talent.

As for Okoye, I am in the middle of writing up a review of his season at FanHouse. I'll put that in this thread when I'm done.

Hi Texans_Chick, I am a regular reader of withleather.com and i saw ur article on Superbowl parties being featured on it. Congrats!

HOU-TEX
01-30-2008, 11:44 AM
Hi Texans_Chick, I am a regular reader of withleather.com and i saw ur article on Superbowl parties being featured on it. Congrats!

Hmm, sounds kinky.:thinking:

Texans_Chick
01-30-2008, 02:57 PM
Hi Texans_Chick, I am a regular reader of withleather.com and i saw ur article on Superbowl parties being featured on it. Congrats!

I met one of the withleather.com guys at the SB last year. Super nice guy.

BTW, this is where the name of the blog comes from:

link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You're_with_me,_leather)

beerlover
02-04-2008, 06:58 PM
I don't have major issues with the Texans grade as with most clubs its just premature & reflects actual production for their rookie season only without projecting forward, but I do have issue with another team who really got outstanding production from their draft picks & who are still playing, the Giants.

He gave them a C in April & a D in Januray-

First-round CB Aaron Ross and seventh-round safety Michael Johnson worked their way into the starting lineup of a top-10 defense, and fifth-round TE Kevin Boss gave the Giants insurance when Jeremy Shockey's season ended with a fractured fibula

they would not be in the Super Bowl if not from their rookie contributions. we all remember Ross from Texas, looked to me like he was playing hurt, all he did was man up play through pain, coming up huge in the secondary that had been considered a weakness. I loved Steve Smith coming out of USC as a #2 position WR like the Colts Anthony Gonzalez. he made some big catches that has helped the Giants move the chains in key situations.

I remember last year @ the combine watching Kevin Boss run his forty & other skill tests like receiving, adjusting to the ball & running after the catch, one of the most impressive later round prospects in the draft from Western Oregon? I just knew he was going to make some team. then Shockey goes down & he gets his chance, the Giants are a better team with him in the game, more complete. excellent blocker, sure hands, will go over the middle , red zone wherever you need him & will be a load to bring down. looks like he put on 15-20 lbs since last year too.

Rick did mention Michael Johnson, very inspirational gives them secondary depth but made no mention of fellow 7th rd. RB selection Ahmad Bradshaw. Rick Smith can only hope to find similar talent that late in the draft. so in this exteme case I'm fine with the April grade of C because you don't know what anyone is gonna do yet, but here in Januray helping their team make it as a wildcard into the Super Bowl warrants at least a "B" if not "A"

ok I feel better now :rofl:

C in April, D in Januray wonder what he gives them now in February :cowboy1:

beerlover
02-04-2008, 07:02 PM
Gosselin changes tune :music:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/columnists/rgosselin/stories/020408dnspogosselin.38e32e8.html

Texanmike02
02-05-2008, 12:50 AM
HOW THE F' DO YOU GET AN A THEN????


You draft Mario,Ryans,Spence,Winston and Daniels... I think that is how you get an A. This certainly wasn't an A but it was a productive draft.

Mike

Texanmike02
02-05-2008, 12:52 AM
Okoye looks to be the part, and I really can't remember the last time a rookie DT set the league on fire. .

Tommie Harris? Not sure, that's just the first name that came to mind.

Mike

ObsiWan
02-05-2008, 01:15 AM
Okoye looks to be the part, and I really can't remember the last time a rookie DT set the league on fire. He definitely looked winded about halfway through the season, but I beleive that is just an effect of being a rookie in the NFL.


Warren Sapp maybe....??

And Okoye did "hit the wall"... there was an article in the Sporting News mag (or was it ESPN the Magazine...?) about rookies "hitting the wall"; where Okoye was quoted as saying he couldn't wait for the Bye week so he could just get some rest.

Vinny
02-05-2008, 08:49 AM
Warren Sapp maybe....??

And Okoye did "hit the wall"... there was an article in the Sporting News mag (or was it ESPN the Magazine...?) about rookies "hitting the wall"; where Okoye was quoted as saying he couldn't wait for the Bye week so he could just get some rest.Yeah, the last rookie DT that came in and really was a difference maker was Sapp. I think Glenn Dorsey will have a similar impact....Okoye isn't as good as Sapp was in his prime.

Maddict5
02-05-2008, 08:56 AM
Yeah, the last rookie DT that came in and really was a difference maker was Sapp. I think Glenn Dorsey will have a similar impact....Okoye isn't as good as Sapp was in his prime.

kevin williams no?

Vinny
02-05-2008, 08:58 AM
kevin williams no?He played at DE for most of the year and moved inside for the last few games his rookie year if I remember correctly....he had a great year though.

dalemurphy
02-05-2008, 09:10 AM
i'm guessing he thinks that the teams who had the most rookies see playing time are more prepared down the road. and that's how he grades em? i dunno.



Well, he gave the NYGiants a D, despite the fact that ABradshaw (7th), ARoss, KBoss, MJohnson, among others all made a significant impact for the superbowl champions. I'd say the grades are a joke!

b0ng
02-05-2008, 10:39 AM
Okoye isn't as good as Sapp was in his prime.

I don't get this. You don't think Okoye as a rookie was as good as Sapp in his prime, or that Okoye will never be as good as Sapp?

Texans Horror
02-06-2008, 09:05 AM
You draft Mario,Ryans,Spence,Winston and Daniels... I think that is how you get an A. This certainly wasn't an A but it was a productive draft.

Mike

Having all your picks and keeping players healthy certainly helps get a better grade with most writers, I am sure, but like you I think the Texans did very well with what they had.

I am going to make a prediction for the upcoming draft. If the Texans take a LT or RB in the first round, their draft may be judged an A. Anything else has them a C or B at best. Not that they made bad pics, but it's the judgement of people who don't necessarily study the Texans day-to-day. They will only see the big headlines they remember and pull triggers based on concepts seen at 30,000 feet.

Maddict5
02-06-2008, 11:56 AM
You draft Mario,Ryans,Spence,Winston and Daniels... I think that is how you get an A. This certainly wasn't an A but it was a productive draft.

Mike

were we getting A's last yr with that group?? We had the DROTY, an injured underachieving #1 pick, a promising LT with a serious injury and a somewhat promising RT


this yr, we have a promising DT, a good qb, a promising wr/kr that never recovered to full strength after his injury and an excellent rookie cb

i think this could easily be an A group.. a year is along time in the nfl

Texans Horror
02-06-2008, 10:37 PM
And a lot of people would say you need at least three years to determine if a draft class was any good. For me, early on, the only way to look at it is did the class put warm bodies on the field, and were those players competitive?

For last year's draft, we really only had Bennett and Okoye who made significant impact while out on the field, and who were out there consistently. For the 2006 draft, we have the benefit of the second season when MW looked pretty damn good, Demeco went to the pro-bowl (after getting DROY the year before, and OD continued to impress. Not to mention Winston solidifying the RT spot. That's a pretty damn good crop, if you ask me. I couldn't argue with an A for them.

beerlover
02-12-2008, 04:01 PM
was too busy banging him for his Giant grade to address the Texans near enough, but I was just thinking of our later rd. picks who for various reasons did not see much if any playing time.

5th (#144) Brandon Harrison, SS Stanford 6020 220

Rhodes is going to have fun developing this guy, will wait to see him on the field as mentioned at least a couple years but if he is anything like Stanford alum John Lynch (similar size) he could be the steal of the draft class.

5th (#163) Brandon Frye, OT Virginia Tech 6041 301

Gibbs project now. just what he likes, athletic, quick & tough for ZBS.

6th (#183) Kasey Studdard, OG Texas 6024 303

Demonstrates philosphy of taking linemen in latter rounds pre Gibbs. could become long term RG but will have to prove it starting with OTA's & TC.

7th (#218) Zach Diles, ILB/SLB Kansas State 6003 241

Kubiak said he wished that he played him more @ the end of season. that means he earned playing time in practice, should get a chance in his second season & thats pretty good for such a late day pick.

smokeshow
02-12-2008, 04:11 PM
I think Studdard has a real future with the team. I followed him in college, he is extremely gritty

beerlover
02-15-2008, 12:27 AM
was too busy banging him for his Giant grade to address the Texans near enough, but I was just thinking of our later rd. picks who for various reasons did not see much if any playing time.

5th (#144) Brandon Harrison, SS Stanford 6020 220

Rhodes is going to have fun developing this guy, will wait to see him on the field as mentioned at least a couple years but if he is anything like Stanford alum John Lynch (similar size) he could be the steal of the draft class.

5th (#163) Brandon Frye, OT Virginia Tech 6041 301

Gibbs project now. just what he likes, athletic, quick & tough for ZBS.

6th (#183) Kasey Studdard, OG Texas 6024 303

Demonstrates philosphy of taking linemen in latter rounds pre Gibbs. could become long term RG but will have to prove it starting with OTA's & TC.

7th (#218) Zach Diles, ILB/SLB Kansas State 6003 241

Kubiak said he wished that he played him more @ the end of season. that means he earned playing time in practice, should get a chance in his second season & thats pretty good for such a late day pick.

saw this & thought it should be posted here- http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5537040.html

The coaches expect receiver Jacoby Jones, guard Kasey Studdard and outside linebacker Zac Diles to start at some point. The jury is still out on safety Brandon Harrison and offensive lineman Brandon Frye.