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View Full Version : Why L.A. Still Does not Have an NFL Team


Wolf
01-26-2008, 01:28 AM
My Bleacher Report colleague, John Fennelly, recently wrote an article about the NFL being conspicuously absent from Los Angeles.


Since the Rams and Raiders left town the city has made no progress in replacing either of them. There are a number of reasons why:

1) You Can Not Fight City Hall

The main obstacle in bringing professional football back to Los Angeles has been the Coliseum Commission. Since the L.A. Coliseum is owned by the city, it will always be the only option local government will get behind. There is just too much money involved for city hall to either give up or get behind another bid.

The problem is that the Coliseum is a dump. It is not one of those old buildings with charm, like Wrigley Field.

Art Modell, the late owner of the Baltimore Ravens, once said about the L.A. Coliseum, "Trying to put a new dress on an old hooker is not the way I want to go dancing."

Philip Anshutz, the billionaire owner of the Los Angeles Kings and Staples Center, tried unsuccessfully to build a stadium in Downtown L.A. to help lure an expansion team. When he saw what obstacles city hall was planning on putting in his way, he quickly backed down.

Until either an ownership group is willing to foot the bill for the construction of a stadium on top of the billion dollar expansion fee without counting on tax-payer money, the thought of professional football returning to Los Angeles is a long-shot.

2) The NFL Has 32 Teams

This is a bigger deal than most people realize. When the Cleveland Browns returned to the NFL, the league had 31 teams. Having an odd number of teams meant that one team did not play the first week of the season and another team did not play the last week of the season.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/7593-NFL-Why_L_A_Still_Does_not_Have_an_NFL_Team

threetoedpete
01-26-2008, 02:22 AM
The other point is that there are several different factions tring to land that plump. With the Death of the Rams owner this week, that will bring in the conversation again. The other thing is that the L.A. market is very indifferent about wanting a team.

While we're on the subject of morgues....does anyone know exactly who holds the 65 million dollars worth of bonds on the Astro Dome ? The terms Astro Dome and bonds brings the term junk into a new propective. Just curious who is holding those dogs and how would you look up something like that ?

TexansLucky13
01-26-2008, 02:34 AM
While we're on the subject of morgues....does anyone know exactly who holds the 65 million dollars worth of bonds on the Astro Dome ? The terms Astro Dome and bonds brings the term junk into a new propective. Just curious who is holding those dogs and how would you look up something like that ?

The great city of Houston is paying for the Astrodome bonds. That means that John Q. Houstonian (such as most of us) is paying for it.

threetoedpete
01-26-2008, 03:13 AM
The great city of Houston is paying for the Astrodome bonds. That means that John Q. Houstonian (such as most of us) is paying for it.

Nope. the citzens of the county haven't made a note on the principal in a while.

http://www.hchsa.org/downloads/1201334786.50073700_edc0d5c34a/project_agreement_02.pdf
found this.

But who is actually holding the insturments...the bonds, waiting to be paid off ?
As I understnd it, the voters approved the sale of them to anyone who would buy them in the open market ? And as my Grandfther H.W. predictied...they weren't worth the paper they were printed on.

I mean technically we're in defult on the bonds.
Check out 17.1

threetoedpete
01-26-2008, 03:28 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5480976.html

So my quetion is how can anyone do anything to the Astro dome, Hotel, Landing pad for aliens, whatever, untill these bonds, the original bonds, are retired ?
And who in the world is holding all of that paper ?

threetoedpete
01-26-2008, 03:53 AM
#4 Houston Astros. TThe Astros now play in the Astrodome, which was built by Harris County in 1965 for $31 million. Although the lease runs to 2005, they negotiated with the County for a new stadium in 1997. The new, retractable dome stadium, tentatively named The Ballpark at Union Station, is being built by the newly-created Harris County-Houston Sports Authority. Total cost is estimated to be $265 million. Of this total, $180 million is from public sources; temporary increases on the local hotel and rental car taxes will raise this sum. The $85 million in private financing includes land donations from private corporations, an interest-free loan to the team, and $53 million from the Astros in the form of advance rent payments to the Authority. The new facility is expected to open in 2000.



http://www.cbcny.org/lettersandmemos/stadium990421main.html

Wolf
01-28-2008, 04:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmfA2WHZeg4&NR=1

mcnair talked about the Astrodome and what's trying to being done (or not)sticky situation with Reliant and the use and the astrodome and the use

HoustonFrog
01-28-2008, 04:15 PM
I'll answer without reading...apathy. Big market but who cares?They didn't care when they were there and when is the last time a person from LA has clamored for football. The NFL does well without them.

Texan_Bill
01-28-2008, 04:19 PM
My understanding is that Harris County (or the HCSA),is paying the debt, but to whom, I have no idea. Same with Reliant. Thus the Astrodome's project of record name was "the Harris County Stadium Project" and Reliants was "the New Harris County Stadium Project", respectively.

Also, how is $65 m. owed today when the original bond amounts came in at about $33 m. back 1964 /1965???

Financing
The Houston Astrodome was completed in April 1965, at a cost of approximately $35 million. Additionally, property owners contributed some $4 million of rights-of-way for roadways and freeway, and HSA spent $6 million for restaurants, skybox suites, a scoreboard, and the like. The total cost for all development expenses was slightly greater than $45 million.

There were four bond issues made to finance the stadium. The first, in the amount of $15 million, a second for $3 million, and a third for $4 million were issued in 1961. The fourth issued, of $9.6 million, was made in 1963. Thus, the total bond issues came to $31.6 million. Almost $1.4 million was accumulated through interest payments received while the bond funds were on deposit. Thus, the total available funds approximated $33 million. Additional expenses relating to off-site improvements were absorbed by the city and state.

The original rental agreement between the Astrodomain Corporation and Harris County is $750,000 per year for 20 years, with the rental figures reportedly based on % percent of the initial 1961 bonds issued ($15 million). Harris County is paying the debt service and costs on the other bonds.

Second Honeymoon
01-28-2008, 04:31 PM
TB, with the avatar change should we just call you Rocket Bill now? no more pompoms :(

as for LA getting a team, they should get a team and I say Jacksonville makes the most sense. Their fanbase just can't cut it. Great owner and good franchise but they really dont have any business having a team. Same with Nashville. LA would be in the AFC South with us or you could swap LA with KC....I just dont think the Hunt family will be down with that. If there was one thing Lamar didn't want to do it was change divisions.

Texan_Bill
01-28-2008, 04:57 PM
TB, with the avatar change should we just call you Rocket Bill now? no more pompoms :(

as for LA getting a team, they should get a team and I say Jacksonville makes the most sense. Their fanbase just can't cut it. Great owner and good franchise but they really dont have any business having a team. Same with Nashville. LA would be in the AFC South with us or you could swap LA with KC....I just dont think the Hunt family will be down with that. If there was one thing Lamar didn't want to do it was change divisions.

It's only for Texans84's benefit... He loves his Jazz fingers errrrr Jazz. I'll switch back in a day or so.....

*******************************

I have heard some of my buddies from SoCal say they like not having a team because of the television rights and such. They tend to get the better games each week rather than being sucked in by some regional rules..

Goldensilence
01-28-2008, 04:58 PM
I'll answer without reading...apathy. Big market but who cares?They didn't care when they were there and when is the last time a person from LA has clamored for football. The NFL does well without them.

Spot on. LA as a whole is more in love with USC and the Lakers then to manage caring about an NFL franchise and i'm willing to be they're just waiting for a chance to have the Dodgers to be good again.

LA could've cobbled together SOMETHING, ANYTHING including renovations to the Coliseum until they finalized something better to play in when the NFL was wanting a new expnasion team. Kudos to Bob McNair getting together such an insanely attractive plan that the NFL had to say yes when LA was given EVERY oppurtunity to get a franchise back there.

Overalls
01-28-2008, 05:03 PM
My understanding is that Harris County (or the HCSA),is paying the debt, but to whom, I have no idea. Same with Reliant. Thus the Astrodome's project of record name was "the Harris County Stadium Project" and Reliants was "the New Harris County Stadium Project", respectively.

Also, how is $65 m. owed today when the original bond amounts came in at about $33 m. back 1964 /1965???

I am at work now so I can't provide the link but the reason more is owed on the Dome now than the amout to have it built is because Dud Adams held us hostage for renovations when he threatened to move the Oilers to Jacksonville. That is when the famous scoreboard was ripped out for more seats. Basically we are still paying for a failed attempt to keep the Tennessee Turncoat from becoming the Jacksonville Jacka$$.

Pantherstang84
01-28-2008, 05:06 PM
Spot on. LA as a whole is more in love with USC and the Lakers then to manage caring about an NFL franchise and i'm willing to be they're just waiting for a chance to have the Dodgers to be good again.

LA could've cobbled together SOMETHING, ANYTHING including renovations to the Coliseum until they finalized something better to play in when the NFL was wanting a new expnasion team. Kudos to Bob McNair getting together such an insanely attractive plan that the NFL had to say yes when LA was given EVERY oppurtunity to get a franchise back there.

Excellent point. If LA had shown any interest whatsoever in getting another team, then there would be no Houston Texans. The NFL was looking for any excuse to give the franchise to LA instead of Houston.

Texan_Bill
01-28-2008, 05:10 PM
I am at work now so I can't provide the link but the reason more is owed on the Dome now than the amout to have it built is because Dud Adams held us hostage for renovations when he threatened to move the Oilers to Jacksonville. That is when the famous scoreboard was ripped out for more seats. Basically we are still paying for a failed attempt to keep the Tennessee Turncoat from becoming the Jacksonville Jacka$$.

D'OH!!! Thats right... I should have known better... Thats when we lost the 'pinball machine'...

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/gsapp/BT/DOMES/HOUSTON/astro34.jpg

http://www.kathyamen.net/enron/bull.jpg


Must be Monday :gun:

Texan_Bill
01-28-2008, 05:13 PM
Veiw from Judge Hofheinz apartment's game room in the 'Ol Girl....

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/gsapp/BT/DOMES/HOUSTON/h-art-5.jpg




To reach his lodgings, the visitor had to pass the Judge's private office, guarded by a set of matching six-foot Thai temple dogs, carved out of solid teakwood and imported from Thailand. His 12-foot desk, with an inlaid black marble top, featured a gold telephone with 23 extensions and a view of three TV sets.
One level up was the Judge's home in the Dome. There was a bar, kitchen and dining room and a bathroom with gold-plated fixtures and velvet toilet seats. Eight plush easy chairs were arranged in front of the picture window that overlooked the field.
There was more, oh, so much more: a one-lane bowling alley, a three-hole putting green, a billiard table (with cast-iron legs made in New Orleans in 1865), a boardroom with wall-to-ceiling carpet, a right-field patio with imitation orange trees, a 10-seat movie theater, a barbershop and a presidential suite with oval scatter rugs bearing the presidential seal. Lyndon Johnson slept there the night of April 9, 1965. This was where the Judge slept on other nights.
One tourist described the decor as "Early King Farouk."
Those digs were eliminated during the Dome's remodeling five years ago. But if walls could talk, what a story you might hear from the one in right field.

powerfuldragon
01-28-2008, 05:16 PM
la team would have so much locker room drama.

GuerillaBlack
01-28-2008, 07:04 PM
The other point is that there are several different factions tring to land that plump. With the Death of the Rams owner this week, that will bring in the conversation again. The other thing is that the L.A. market is very indifferent about wanting a team.

While we're on the subject of morgues....does anyone know exactly who holds the 65 million dollars worth of bonds on the Astro Dome ? The terms Astro Dome and bonds brings the term junk into a new propective. Just curious who is holding those dogs and how would you look up something like that ?

Well, if the HLS&R as well as the Texans (Bob McNair) stop messing with the Astrodome Redevelopment Committee, no one will be paying for it anymore. They want to redevelop it into a Gaylord Texan-type hotel/convention center.

Here is a photo:
http://blog.kir.com/archives/astrodome3.jpg

Yankee_In_TX
01-28-2008, 07:18 PM
Sadly, baring some miracle parking garage design and traffic re-routing, I don't see the Texans allowing the Astrodome to re-develop.

aj.
01-28-2008, 07:27 PM
One of the main reasons is there's no public money available in CA for this kind of stuff. Same reason SF and OAK still play in their respective crap holes opposite the Bay.

The 65mill was the cost floated by the Harris Co. taxpayers for the late 80's upgrade. There was still a line item in the County budget for that debt as recently as last year.

GuerillaBlack
01-28-2008, 07:29 PM
Sadly, baring some miracle parking garage design and traffic re-routing, I don't see the Texans allowing the Astrodome to re-develop.

McNair sees it as "taking away from his business". The Texans, at the most, will have 12 games at home a year.

Overalls
01-28-2008, 07:54 PM
McNair sees it as "taking away from his business". The Texans, at the most, will have 12 games at home a year.

Well you could also add the Draft party and an occational Pigs skins and Pancakes event. But if we don't count any other possible Texans event for those 14 events parking could become a problem. The main reason we no longer have Astroworld is parking. As much as I would like to have the Dome turned into a convention/hotel thing I am not going to fault Bob and the Rodeo for wanting to make sure their piece of the pie is guarded. Even if Bob only lost 10% revinue. How much money would that be. Think about it. If you take away half of the Blue Lot money and half of the Ornge Lot money, that is a nice chunck of change. How many of Y'all would be willing to give up your parking passes so that an ICOU can have a parking space close to the Dome for game day. That would be nice. FILO gets kicked out of their spot so that Blazing Saddle won't have too far to walk. We could have all the Titans fans have some of the best parking spots for their tailgating on game days. You couldn't stop them. They would be parking in your spot for the price of an over night stay at the Dome. Heck if I was the fan of another team that's where I would want to stay. I hope something gets worked out but I wouldn't want to tell a fan that has supported you from the begining and parking in the same spot for 6 years that he can't park there because the Colts are in town.

:fans:

aj.
01-28-2008, 07:58 PM
Back during the Oilers days we used to meet our group for pregame beers and burgers etc. in what is now Orange, out by the Fannin fence. Almost every week there was a gun show or 'rock and gem' show or dogs and cats show at the old Astrohall that filled up a good portion of that lot and what is now the 'far east blue' on the other side. It was an inconvenience to some of us football fans wanting to get 'our spot' every week.

Wolf
01-28-2008, 08:02 PM
Sadly, baring some miracle parking garage design and traffic re-routing, I don't see the Texans allowing the Astrodome to re-develop.

Bob (in the youtube link above) seemed to be ready for the Astrodome to get going, but it would have to not be open on sundays (and possibly mondays I guess on the dates the Texans would play on monday night football) and on dates with the rodeo that wouldn't interfere with reliant stadium and their schedule.

in a nutshell(see the video to get all of it and that I don't misquote Bob)

I guess I agree with Bob on it as much as I'd like to see the Astrodome open up.. after all he invested a lot of money in the Texans and their facility

Wolf
01-28-2008, 08:03 PM
Well you could also add the Draft party and an occational Pigs skins and Pancakes event. But if we don't count any other possible Texans event for those 14 events parking could become a problem. The main reason we no longer have Astroworld is parking. As much as I would like to have the Dome turned into a convention/hotel thing I am not going to fault Bob and the Rodeo for wanting to make sure their piece of the pie is guarded. Even if Bob only lost 10% revinue. How much money would that be. Think about it. If you take away half of the Blue Lot money and half of the Ornge Lot money, that is a nice chunck of change. How many of Y'all would be willing to give up your parking passes so that an ICOU can have a parking space close to the Dome for game day. That would be nice. FILO gets kicked out of their spot so that Blazing Saddle won't have too far to walk. We could have all the Titans fans have some of the best parking spots for their tailgating on game days. You couldn't stop them. They would be parking in your spot for the price of an over night stay at the Dome. Heck if I was the fan of another team that's where I would want to stay. I hope something gets worked out but I wouldn't want to tell a fan that has supported you from the begining and parking in the same spot for 6 years that he can't park there because the Colts are in town.

:fans:
better said than my post

GuerillaBlack
01-28-2008, 08:09 PM
Well you could also add the Draft party and an occational Pigs skins and Pancakes event. But if we don't count any other possible Texans event for those 14 events parking could become a problem. The main reason we no longer have Astroworld is parking. As much as I would like to have the Dome turned into a convention/hotel thing I am not going to fault Bob and the Rodeo for wanting to make sure their piece of the pie is guarded. Even if Bob only lost 10% revinue. How much money would that be. Think about it. If you take away half of the Blue Lot money and half of the Ornge Lot money, that is a nice chunck of change. How many of Y'all would be willing to give up your parking passes so that an ICOU can have a parking space close to the Dome for game day. That would be nice. FILO gets kicked out of their spot so that Blazing Saddle won't have too far to walk. We could have all the Titans fans have some of the best parking spots for their tailgating on game days. You couldn't stop them. They would be parking in your spot for the price of an over night stay at the Dome. Heck if I was the fan of another team that's where I would want to stay. I hope something gets worked out but I wouldn't want to tell a fan that has supported you from the begining and parking in the same spot for 6 years that he can't park there because the Colts are in town.

:fans:

A parking garage is included in the redevelopment. The redevelopment would actually bring in MORE business for Bob, as people would be staying on site.

I want a Gaylord-like convention hotel there, and I want a sports-themed entertainment/retail district lining an extension of Holly Hall from Fannin to the dome. We all know it can be done, and that the deal can be structured in a way that is enormously beneficial to the Texans.

The rodeo would still only have three weeks straight of events at Reliant Stadium and the parking lot, and wouldn't deter people from going to any of the rodeo events either.

If anything, it would probably give the Texans a better chance at hosting the Super Bowl, would have given the Rodeo another updated facility for Livestock and Rodeo events, and probably would have meant more convention revenue. How they figured that a convention hotel would have discouraged Houstonians and tourists from watching Clint Black, Hanna Montana, or Texans vs. Titans is beyond me. Where exactly did they see their money being lost if the Astrodome were redeveloped?

I just think that the Texans and HLSR are just being totally unreasonable in their demands.

threetoedpete
01-30-2008, 03:35 AM
Well, if the HLS&R as well as the Texans (Bob McNair) stop messing with the Astrodome Redevelopment Committee, no one will be paying for it anymore. They want to redevelop it into a Gaylord Texan-type hotel/convention center.

Here is a photo:
http://blog.kir.com/archives/astrodome3.jpg

That is what I'm tring to make the point of....somebody is holding that paper. And I'm no high finace banker....but I'm assuming here that they used the property and the building and the lease as fair colteral on the bonds. Now you are telling me that these people holding this currently worthless paper are going to let you come in destroy their colateral and not get nothing in return ? Ah, nope. Somebody is going to have to grease up the paper holder guys first. The very first number you need to put down in terms of the dome is 65 million. You owe sixty-five million before you start to dig. If I was holding those junk bonds and I read someone is doing something to the dome....I'd have an attorney flying to the court house. Believe anything believe that. Someone would be paying me first.

And boys and gurls correct me if I'm wrong, that is why they cannot put together another package to finace a renovation deal. Got a building now basically worth nothing...where is your colteral ? What are you going to use to back the new loans ?

Untill those instruments are retired... they aren't going to do jack squat to the astro dome. The guy who knew just died Sunday. Lot of dead bodies are going to buried right along side 'ol Louie Welch. He had his fingers right in the middle of all of this.

threetoedpete
01-30-2008, 03:40 AM
The baptists in this town are not going to let a Cansio come into houston. You want that, go to their churches on sunday and shoot them all down stone cold dead. I mean no way is that going to fly. If that is what the power stucture is after they gonna have to kill them all first. Been three votes and three failures...figure it out.