PDA

View Full Version : Super Bowl XLII: New England Patriots vs. New York Giants


Pages : 1 [2]

WesmanTexanfan
02-04-2008, 12:03 AM
Very entertaining game, especially the 4th quarter. But I'm glad it's over and I'll be sure not to watch ESPN for at least a week. The New York/Boston, Brady/Belichick, Manning/Manning, '72 Dolphins/ Perfection narrative is nauseating.

Is anyone else thinking the Texans should draft another d-lineman? I'd welcome it. The Giants sold me.


Im down.....

Leahmic223
02-04-2008, 12:12 AM
Very entertaining game, especially the 4th quarter. But I'm glad it's over and I'll be sure not to watch ESPN for at least a week. The New York/Boston, Brady/Belichick, Manning/Manning, '72 Dolphins/ Perfection narrative is nauseating.

Is anyone else thinking the Texans should draft another d-lineman? I'd welcome it. The Giants sold me.


Its been proven once again...defense wins championships!

And I am proud to say we are adding a lot of pieces to our defense and our offense ain't too shabby either.

Hopefully one day our players can actually be on the field instead of in the commercials.

WesmanTexanfan
02-04-2008, 12:16 AM
Its been proven once again...defense wins championships!

And I am proud to say we are adding a lot of pieces to our defense and our offense ain't too shabby either.

Hopefully one day our players can actually be on the field instead of in the commercials.

though it was an excelent commercial....

StarStruck
02-04-2008, 12:19 AM
Its been proven once again...defense wins championships!

And I am proud to say we are adding a lot of pieces to our defense and our offense ain't too shabby either.

Hopefully one day our players can actually be on the field instead of in the commercials.


It will come. Tonight was a good example of when you have key pieces in place even being an underdog is pretty meaningless.

GlassHalfFull
02-04-2008, 12:22 AM
Bradyfan83 posted this video on YouTube about Manning this week. He might need to change the ending.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rYA8xmzEKo

StarStruck
02-04-2008, 12:29 AM
Bradyfan83 posted this video on YouTube about Manning this week. He might need to change the ending.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rYA8xmzEKo

Indeed he does.

Spled
02-04-2008, 01:41 AM
Tiki and his supporters look pretty dumb.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoREpGL5qFI

kastofsna
02-04-2008, 02:25 AM
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3452/disneyworldzh6.jpg

i like the cue card.

GuerillaBlack
02-04-2008, 07:29 AM
Psh we have them beat! The most users ever for us was 1,493 on 4/28/2006. I wonder how many guests we had then?

Wow, was that when we drafted Mario? Haha.

HoustonFrog
02-04-2008, 09:23 AM
I couldn't get on last night after the party. Great win for the Giants. I wasn't cheering for them but they deserved it.

I'm not agreeing with what I hear on the radio right now about this being one of the best games. The game was horrible until the last 5 minutes. even the worst played game can have a last minute 2 minute drive but it doesn't make it great. The drive and the plays made were great.

Second Honeymoon
02-04-2008, 09:54 AM
The spygate scandal and the loss to the Giants hurts Belichik's legacy. Him leaving the field before the clock reached :00 and leaving his team on the field DESTROYED his legacy. That was such a punkass move. No class at all. Oh and dumbass not going for the field goal was just stupid. So 10 yards of field position was worth not going for a field goal? It couldn't happen to a nicer guy err bigger jerk.

Belichoke is back and its a great thing. I would congratulate the Giants but they are a New York team so they can bite me for all I care.

GO TEXANS IN 08

chicagotexan2
02-04-2008, 09:55 AM
Belichek slithered away before the final play of the game, just like Moss did a few years ago. How apropo (SP?). Show some class and take it like a man. Sore losers. I wanted to be a witness to history, but after seeing this bum act like a baby I'm glad I didn't. Congrats NYG.

HOU-TEX
02-04-2008, 10:04 AM
I couldn't get on last night after the party. Great win for the Giants. I wasn't cheering for them but they deserved it.

I'm not agreeing with what I hear on the radio right now about this being one of the best games. The game was horrible until the last 5 minutes. even the worst played game can have a last minute 2 minute drive but it doesn't make it great. The drive and the plays made were great.

I agree that it wasn't one of the best games, but it was a nice defensive showing the first 3 quarters. As a defense guy, I thought the Giants front 7 were outstanding. The DB's were even crashing hard against the run. The front 4 were giving Brady nightmares. The Pats D did well against the run.:)

Mr teX
02-04-2008, 10:07 AM
I couldn't get on last night after the party. Great win for the Giants. I wasn't cheering for them but they deserved it.

I'm not agreeing with what I hear on the rasio right now about this being one of the best games. The game was horrible until the last 5 minutes. even the worst played game can have a last minute 2 minute drive but it doesn't make it great. The drive and the plays made were great.

It wasn't great just for that though. The historical context alone puts it right up there with Colts/Jets, Titans/Rams & Pats/Rams.

2) this was the #1 scoring offense of ALL-TIME that was held to just 14 points. Brady hadn't seen pressure like this EVER in his career, at least for a whole game anyway, & that Giants front 7 made him & that offense just look average.

3, at least for me, You saw a kid grow up in the toughest circumstance imaginable. 2 & some change left & you absolutely have to score a TD to win & he puts together a 12 play 83 yard drive to seal the deal against a top 5 defense. That play he got away from that sack was just ridiculous.

You add in the spygate crap &.......

Second Honeymoon
02-04-2008, 10:08 AM
Belichek slithered away before the final play of the game, just like Moss did a few years ago. How apropo (SP?). Show some class and take it like a man. Sore losers. I wanted to be a witness to history, but after seeing this bum act like a baby I'm glad I didn't. Congrats NYG.

Yeah Moss did it in a regular season game that was a two score lead with seconds to go. Belichoke did it in a Super Bowl with the whole world watching and he is the head coach. I gave Moss a pass when he did it, but this is a different animal altogether. I lost any respect I had left for Belichoke and I know it ripped Boston fan's heart out to go out like that. No class, no perfection, no trophy. Sucks to be you Boston. No class and the football gods stepped in and made things right. Cheaters don't win and people who show no class suck.

I will say that if the Pats don't lose their starting LG they probably win. Almost all the pressure came through Cochenstein's gap. The guy just couldn't block anyone. I believe 4 of the 5 sacks were squarely on #71 Cochenstein and around 80% of the hurries could be attributed to him as well. Its called Karma. All the year of running up scores and not being class comes back to bite you.

Texan_Bill
02-04-2008, 10:12 AM
Belichek slithered away before the final play of the game, just like Moss did a few years ago. How apropo (SP?). Show some class and take it like a man. Sore losers. I wanted to be a witness to history, but after seeing this bum act like a baby I'm glad I didn't. Congrats NYG.
As much as I hate Belichek, I disagree here.. He went and hugged and congratulated Coughlin. It just so happened that there was one second left, that by rule, they had to play out. Belichek had already given his congratulations and there was no need to go back across the field and do it again...

Again, I hate Belichek as much as anyone, but you can't blame the guy for that.. Thats reaching...


I agree that it wasn't one of the best games, but it was a nice defensive showing the first 3 quarters. As a defense guy, I thought the Giants front 7 were outstanding. The DB's were even crashing hard against the run. The front 4 were giving Brady nightmares. The Pats D did well against the run.:)

Agreed.. The defensive battle was great to see. The Giants front 7 put an a$$ whoopin' on what is supposed to be one of the best offensive lines in the league..

HoustonFrog
02-04-2008, 10:14 AM
It wasn't great just for that though. The historical context alone puts it right up there with Colts/Jets, Titans/Rams & Pats/Rams.

2) this was the #1 scoring offense of ALL-TIME that was held to just 14 points. Brady hadn't seen pressure like this EVER in his career, at least for a whole game anyway, & that Giants front 7 made him & that offense just look average.

3, at least for me, You saw a kid grow up in the toughest circumstance imaginable. 2 & some change left & you absolutely have to score a TD to win & he puts together a 12 play 83 yard drive to seal the deal against a top 5 defense. That play he got away from that sack was just ridiculous.

You add in the spygate crap &.......

See, I just don't look at it this way though. Maybe it is because I just think alot of these games will never stand the test of time like the older ones because of the era of football and watered down nature fo the league. As a kid, nothing compared to the talent and the games like Pitt v Dallas or even the 49ers v Cincy. I'll even put the Titans game up there because of the completeness of it.

I give the Giants a ton of credit. Their front 4 were all over the place and in Bradys face. But I never looked at the Pats as one of the greatest teams vs the 85 Bears, the Steelers or Cowboys of the 70s, The Cowboys of the 90s and the 49ers of the last 80s. Heck even some of the Skin teams. So I saw them as an overrrated 18-0. I agree the last drive was great but you can put icing on a turd and say it tastes good. Even the worst played games can end with a last second drive and it doesn't make it great. The end of the game made a pedestian game...in my book...exciting.

The defense was great on the Giants side but I also thought that there was alot of sloppiness in play...dropped interceptions that could have sealed games, etc.

HOU-TEX
02-04-2008, 10:16 AM
Agreed.. The defensive battle was great to see. The Giants front 7 put an a$$ whoopin' on what is supposed to be one of the best offensive lines in the league..

Right! Isn't their 3 or 4 Pats Olinemen going to the PB? Osi's the only Giant going.

LMAO, the Pats line was destroyed all night long. To me, that's proof the PB is BS.

WesmanTexanfan
02-04-2008, 10:24 AM
I couldn't get on last night after the party. Great win for the Giants. I wasn't cheering for them but they deserved it.

I'm not agreeing with what I hear on the radio right now about this being one of the best games. The game was horrible until the last 5 minutes. even the worst played game can have a last minute 2 minute drive but it doesn't make it great. The drive and the plays made were great.

c'mon Houstonfrog, C'mon, you know it was, i dont buy that, it was a great great game, awesome defense played on THE BEST offense of all game, Eli started it of with a 9 minute drive for 3 points, they rattled brady, It was an excelent game from quarter 1!!!!

HOU-TEX
02-04-2008, 10:32 AM
c'mon Houstonfrog, C'mon, you know it was, i dont buy that, it was a great great game, awesome defense played on THE BEST offense of all game, Eli started it of with a 9 minute drive for 3 points, they rattled brady, It was an excelent game from quarter 1!!!!

I don't thing Frog would say it wasn't a great game. It's just not one of the "best of all time". :)

Mr teX
02-04-2008, 10:34 AM
See, I just don't look at it this way though. Maybe it is because I just think alot of these games will never stand the test of time like the older ones because of the era of football and watered down nature fo the league. As a kid, nothing compared to the talent and the games like Pitt v Dallas or even the 49ers v Cincy. I'll even put the Titans game up there because of the completeness of it.

I give the Giants a ton of credit. Their front 4 were all over the place and in Bradys face. But I never looked at the Pats as one of the greatest teams vs the 85 Bears, the Steelers or Cowboys of the 70s, The Cowboys of the 90s and the 49ers of the last 80s. Heck even some of the Skin teams. So I saw them as an overrrated 18-0. I agree the last drive was great but you can put icing on a turd and say it tastes good. Even the worst played games can end with a last second drive and it doesn't make it great. The end of the game made a pedestian game...in my book...exciting.

The defense was great on the Giants side but I also thought that there was alot of sloppiness in play...dropped interceptions that could have sealed games, etc.

Lots of Cowboy games there HF, j/jk.. i know you grew up & have lots of fam still up that way but hey, 18-0 is 18-0 & i don't know if there is such a thing as being overrated if you win that many games in a row.

It's tough to win in this league period (as us texans fans know) let alone win that many times & i agree with Chalie P in that you would've had to put them as the GOAT if they would've prevailed yesterday. To each there own i guess. Many in here thought the Pats/Panthers was one of the GOAT SB games but i thought, ehhh.

in my opinion it's one of the greatest mainly b/c all of the history that was made by the pats. that makes what the Giants did just that much more of :woot2.

Brando
02-04-2008, 10:37 AM
Congrats to the Giants for playing with heart. I was pulling for the Pats but I am happy for the Giants.

Defense definitely wins Championships.



:trophy:

HoustonFrog
02-04-2008, 10:39 AM
c'mon Houstonfrog, C'mon, you know it was, i dont buy that, it was a great great game, awesome defense played on THE BEST offense of all game, Eli started it of with a 9 minute drive for 3 points, they rattled brady, It was an excelent game from quarter 1!!!!

No, I don't. You seem very young, so you might. But compared to many of the games in the mid to late 70s and in the 80s, it wasn't. Everyone that I was watching with said the same thing. The Pats offense was great but not the greatest of all time IMHO and same with their team...not even close. The two teams battled and I thought it ended up being a really great ending and a fun game but nowhere near a Top 5 game. People are too "new" these days where anything can make a Top 10.

I don't thing Frog would say it wasn't a great game. It's just not one of the "best of all time". :)

Exactly..thanks!

Lots of Cowboy games there HF, j/jk.. i know you grew up & have lots of fam still up that way but hey, 18-0 is 18-0 & i don't know if there is such a thing as being overrated if you win that many games in a row.

Agree and I didn't mean to take away from them. I just thought throughout the year their defense showed holes against better talent. I never looked at them and thought, "Wow, best I've seen." Their offense was a machine but I also liked other offense. I just take some of the records in thsi league with a grain of salt now because of the amt of teams and the talent pool. Alot fo parity. I think what they have done in this day and age as a franchise is off the charts incredible though. One of the best! I also thought many teams were better than some Cowboy teams. Heck one of my favorite SBs was a Cowboy loss to Pitt, XIII. It was incredible!

I also want to say that I'm not a guy who thinks everything in the past is great compared to now. I think the talent today in some cases would kill a team in say the 60s or like that 72 Dolphim team or some others. Hard to put teams in eras up against each other. I do look at collection of talent though.

PapaL
02-04-2008, 11:16 AM
16-0 and 8-8 mean the same come playoff time; no one cares how you get into the playoffs. Win all your playoff games and there is no doubt who the best team of the year was. This year it was the NYG. End of story.

HoustonFrog
02-04-2008, 11:33 AM
16-0 and 8-8 mean the same come playoff time; no one cares how you get into the playoffs. Win all your playoff games and there is no doubt who the best team of the year was. This year it was the NYG. End of story.

Agreed. They played the best ball when it counted. Defense and Eli.

I do think their roll will end next season though and there will be a post SB 8-8with Eli having some hiccups. Just seems to happen yearly to runner up or champs...mostly runner ups but I don't see it with the Pats.

kastofsna
02-04-2008, 12:03 PM
4th Super Bowl in a row for the Patsies decided by 3 points.

Wolf
02-04-2008, 12:10 PM
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/sp/getty/ec/fullj.08128b17ce60dcf3159733863afa5a87/08128b17ce60dcf3159733863afa5a87-getty-fbn-super_bowl-giants-patriots.jpg


http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/sp/getty/b1/fullj.ddef3a5e04db00f3b2c3599dd59c0c35/ddef3a5e04db00f3b2c3599dd59c0c35-getty-77331464mw122_super_bowl_xl.jpg

Double Barrel
02-04-2008, 12:12 PM
If you haven't seen enough of Michael Strahan at this point, you will soon enough.

WesmanTexanfan
02-04-2008, 12:15 PM
posted by HoustonFrog
No, I don't. You seem very young, so you might. But compared to many of the games in the mid to late 70s and in the 80s, it wasn't. Everyone that I was watching with said the same thing. The Pats offense was great but not the greatest of all time IMHO and same with their team...not even close. The two teams battled and I thought it ended up being a really great ending and a fun game but nowhere near a Top 5 game. People are too "new" these days where anything can make a Top 10.

Good point, i am, it is honestly the best superbowl Ive ever seen, I dont think any footbal game will beat out Texas Vs. Usc. I can't say it was the best in history, nor did i mean to come off like i was suggesting it. But it was an AWESOME end to a good Footbal season and was glad to have witnessed this game. I dont like the NFL, and football is probably 3rd-5th on my favorite sports list, but i got nothing on that game, what an awesome show Eli and the Giants put on against "arguably" one of the best offenses in history....

They got some stones, some big stones those G men. And to quote my man Rudy T "dont EVER underestimate the heart of a Champion".

Wolf
02-04-2008, 12:15 PM
If you haven't seen enough of Michael Strahan at this point, you will soon enough.

sadly there is going to be a ton of manning brothers commercials too.

Brandon420tx
02-04-2008, 12:32 PM
http://i28.tinypic.com/208tavb.jpg

Geez!, look at number 76 on the O-Line, no help whatsoever

disaacks3
02-04-2008, 12:47 PM
As much as I hate Belichek, I disagree here.. He went and hugged and congratulated Coughlin. It just so happened that there was one second left, that by rule, they had to play out. Belichek had already given his congratulations and there was no need to go back across the field and do it again...

Again, I hate Belichek as much as anyone, but you can't blame the guy for that.. Thats reaching... That, and Belichick might want the Giants to enjoy their time in the spotlight. I can fault the man for MANY things, but not that one. If he'd never gone to midfield & shook hands, that'd be beyond classless, but that isn't what happened here.

Farough
02-04-2008, 02:00 PM
I don't see how they didn't give the MVP to either Justin Tuck or Osi..
Manning didn't look very good at all, the only decent looking pass he made on the final drive was for the touchdown.

TexansLucky13
02-04-2008, 02:03 PM
I don't see how they didn't give the MVP to either Justin Tuck or Osi..
Manning didn't look very good at all, the only decent looking pass he made on the final drive was for the touchdown.

I disagree. I personally believe that Brady looked terrible up until the final drive. Eli looked better, and he was the better leader it seems.

Blazing Arrow
02-04-2008, 02:12 PM
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2008/writers/peter_king/02/04/Giants/t1_strahanhatNEW.jpg

:)

Farough
02-04-2008, 02:29 PM
I disagree. I personally believe that Brady looked terrible up until the final drive. Eli looked better, and he was the better leader it seems.
He may have looked better then Brady but theres no way he was the MVP of the ballgame.

Second Honeymoon
02-04-2008, 02:32 PM
sadly there is going to be a ton of manning brothers commercials too.

that was my biggest problem with the outcome. so now we get double the amount of manning...we already had enough.

as an older brother, I did like seeing Peyton's little brother step up and make it happen. i could relate to that a lot from watching my own little brother make strides and meet goals in his life. makes you feel proud, almost like a father. the giants were classy across the board....

...can't say the same for Belichoke. Why he is getting a free pass on him walking off the field, I will never know. That was one of the most bush league things I have ever seen. yeah, he gave love to Coughlin but his act was really lame once it became known they had to snap the ball one more time. leave the field with your team, Bill. I hope that guy never gets another sniff of anything. cheaters never win.

kastofsna
02-04-2008, 02:46 PM
Why he is getting a free pass on him walking off the field, I will never know.
pretty much everyone on the planet is bashing him for it, hardly a free pass.

StarStruck
02-04-2008, 02:59 PM
that was my biggest problem with the outcome. so now we get double the amount of manning...we already had enough.

I enjoy seeing Peyton in commercials because of his sense of humor. I look forward to see what Eli will be marketing.


cheaters never win.

That isn't true. Some cheaters do indeed get caught and lose, but many don't get caught and win. Some we hear about, others we don't.

Ole Miss Texan
02-04-2008, 03:00 PM
I don't see how they didn't give the MVP to either Justin Tuck or Osi..
Manning didn't look very good at all, the only decent looking pass he made on the final drive was for the touchdown.

I thought Eli looked pretty good the whole night. He made some really really great throws throughout the game, some not so good ones, the INT was obviously not his fault and Smith should have caught that. (inside the 10 yard line too!)

Bottom line is Eli didn't really make any serious mistakes. Drove his team down the field all night long. Had two scoring drives at the end of the game to lead his team to Victory over an 18-0 team. Perfect throw to Tyree for the TD, well played for the Plax TD that they practice religiously (seems only play Plax practices)...Basically it's eli marching down the field twice in under 5 minutes to score TD's.

If you could give it to a group- the real MVP's of the game is the Giants entire DL. It's hard to give it to only one on the DL: Strahan vs. Umenyiora vs. Tuck

MVP:
Unit: Giants DL
1 Person: ELI

TEXANS84
02-04-2008, 03:18 PM
I'm sweating like a horror in church at work right now with all the alcohol that was consumed by me last night. I can almost taste the beer as it seeps out of my pours.

Mr teX
02-04-2008, 03:28 PM
I'm sweating like a horror in church at work right now with all the alcohol that was consumed by me last night. I can almost taste the beer as it seeps out of my pours.

I've never gotten wasted to that extent, did u down a whole keg or something?

Double Barrel
02-04-2008, 03:55 PM
cheaters never win.

Actually, they do win. I recently watched an NFL Films documentary about the 1970's-era Oakland Raiders, and their cheating is now part of NFL lore. They had signs on the lockerroom that said "If you aren't cheating, you aren't trying" and "Do whatever it takes to win". They not only encouraged cheating, but reveled in it. As a result, they won three Super Bowls in that era ('76, '80, '83).

And let's not forget that Roger Clemens and Andy Petite have rings.

I'm sure we could list many more known cheaters with championships. The name of the game is getting an advantage....not that I'm trying to make it right. It is what it is.

Texan_Bill
02-04-2008, 03:58 PM
The refs/ Soviets cheated in the 1972 Oympics and beat the US for a gold medal in basketball...

TEXANS84
02-04-2008, 04:11 PM
I've never gotten wasted to that extent, did u down a whole keg or something?

I wasn't wasted, just had a bit too much.

http://g.virbcdn.com/cdnImages/crop_200x200/Image-595-496-tap_machine1.jpg

kastofsna
02-04-2008, 04:12 PM
the Patriots aren't cheats. and they didn't win.

HoustonFrog
02-04-2008, 04:24 PM
The refs/ Soviets cheated in the 1972 Oympics and beat the US for a gold medal in basketball...

Yeah, that still peeves me when I see pieces on it. Someone needs to fix that. The Russian guys still think it was legit....or they act like it.

Second Honeymoon
02-04-2008, 04:28 PM
the Patriots aren't cheats. and they didn't win.

so i guess they took away the 1st Round pick and fined people around a million dollars for not cheating? oh ok. i get it now.

filming the opposing coaches is cheating, watching the opposing coaches with your own eyes is not cheating. they filmed it. that means cheating.

Belichoke cheated and they lost a #31st overall pick because of it..I guess he will take solace in the #6 overall pick though...

GlassHalfFull
02-04-2008, 04:43 PM
Very funny Read linked below. Click on the links in the article also.

The Five Stages of Patriot Grief (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=gallo/080204&sportCat=nfl)

WesmanTexanfan
02-04-2008, 05:02 PM
the Patriots aren't cheats. and they didn't win.

yes they are, to deny it is ignorant or your just lookin for a fight....

Double Barrel
02-04-2008, 06:09 PM
Don't forget Eli Manning CHEATED the NFL draft process, as well. He refused to sign with a team (Chargers) and forced them to trade the pick to the Giants.

I guess some cheating is o.k., like all animals are equal, but some more equal than others. :shades:

GlassHalfFull
02-04-2008, 06:10 PM
Randy Moss and Tom Brady are skipping the pro bowl. Ocho Cinco and Derek Anderson are the replacements.

Ole Miss Texan
02-04-2008, 06:13 PM
There's different levels of cheating...

Everytime an Offensive lineman holds a defensive lineman, they are cheating. Sometimes they get called for it... sometimes they don't.

Were the Pats cheating by 'filming' the other teams hand signals? In my mind its a push but probably yes. Is it against the rules? Yes. Do I think other teams do that? Yes. Does that make it right? No. Did this filming help/make them go undefeated in the reg. season? In my mind No.

As much as everyone despises the Patriots, it's hard not to admit that they ARE a very good team. They were the best team during the regular season. Say they are cheaters but that in itself is somewhat ignorant. They match up better than all the other teams in the NFL on paper, and for the most part on the field.

Bottom line is you're blinded by the media and/or hate if you think the Patriots went 18-1 because of 'cheating'.

Texan_Bill
02-04-2008, 06:17 PM
There's different levels of cheating...



Huh?!?!


cheat �� (cht) KEY �

VERB:
cheat�ed , cheat�ing , cheats
VERB:
tr.

To deceive by trickery; swindle: cheated customers by overcharging them for purchases.
To deprive by trickery; defraud: cheated them of their land.
To mislead; fool: illusions that cheat the eye.
To elude; escape: cheat death.
VERB:
intr.

To act dishonestly; practice fraud.
To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards.
Informal To be sexually unfaithful: cheat on a spouse.
NOUN:

An act of cheating; a fraud or swindle.
One who cheats; a swindler.
Law Fraudulent acquisition of another's property.
Botany An annual European species of brome grass (Bromus secalinus) widely naturalized in temperate regions.


I hear you about offensive lineman... But still, either you do, or you do not. No gray area....

Ole Miss Texan
02-04-2008, 06:20 PM
Don't forget Eli Manning CHEATED the NFL draft process, as well. He refused to sign with a team (Chargers) and forced them to trade the pick to the Giants.


I don't know if that's so much cheating though, is it?

I'm very hesitant to put a lot of blame on Eli for that because I don't know all the backdoor negotions and talk were between both teams, owners, agents, etc.

SD was pretty bad back then, true. Eli met with the Giants organization repeatidly and really liked everything about them from the top down to the bottom. Eli obviously wanted to play for the Giants and the Giants obviously wanted Eli to play for them. Seems to me that San Diego was unwilling to negotiate a reasonable trade with NY (#1 to #4) so Eli pulled the ultimate trump card....he says 'enough with the bull$h*t, quit clowning around...if yall aren't going to get a deal done my agent and I will.'

Question is: If Philip Rivers wasn't available would the sign and trade deal still have happened? Say Rivers was selected at #2 to Oakland. Wonder what the actual deal was... but SD wanted a QB.

NY has been questioned whether that was a good trade or not for almost 4 years now. Atleast Mario settled our debate in less than 2 years!!!!

Ole Miss Texan
02-04-2008, 06:22 PM
Huh?!?!




I hear you about offensive lineman... But still, either you do, or you do not. No gray area....

I hear you and I guess I'm speaking in generalizations. A wrong is a wrong. Speeding is against the law but so is murder. Doesn't mean the are equal! Holding is cheating, but so is fixing games...I don't think they are equal.. (diff. punishments for diff. crimes ~ diff. levels of cheating/crime?) This is getting too...'political' for lack of better words- enough

Way to go Giants!

GuerillaBlack
02-04-2008, 06:31 PM
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0203/nfl_rt_brady_600.jpg

This image reminds me of something.....

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/_photos/2007/01/06/romo-large.jpg

Second Honeymoon
02-04-2008, 06:31 PM
you CAN look at the other team's signals with your own eyes. thats been going on forever. the thing is now with the technology cheaply available today you can film so easily and you want to maintain the spirit of the game and not let whispering devices, zoom lenses, and other high tech spy gadgetry destroy the fabric of the game. Belichik crossed the line and he paid for it (though not enough). Belichik showed how much character and how much of a man he was by walking off the field before the game ended. Freaking pathetic so why is anyone surprised a man of that ilk cheated?

everyone tries to get an advantage but some have class and know what is acceptable and utterly diplorable. I think they should fine the guy for walking off the field before the 0:00 mark. That was damaging to a fine closely fought game. It hurt the league and if you want to hold players accountable for their actions, do it to the coaches as well.

Texan_Bill
02-04-2008, 06:34 PM
I hear you and I guess I'm speaking in generalizations. A wrong is a wrong. Speeding is against the law but so is murder. Doesn't mean the are equal! Holding is cheating, but so is fixing games...I don't think they are equal.. (diff. punishments for diff. crimes ~ diff. levels of cheating/crime?) This is getting too...'political' for lack of better words- enough

Way to go Giants!

You're right.. It just sounded funny to me whenever I first read it. But yes, I agree. There are infractions that are a part of every down, and, there are infractions that can test the boundaries of the game's 'integrity'....

StarStruck
02-04-2008, 07:01 PM
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0203/nfl_rt_brady_600.jpg

This image reminds me of something.....

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/_photos/2007/01/06/romo-large.jpg


At least Parcells was around to see it.

andre'
02-04-2008, 07:01 PM
idk if you all remember how im a pats fan....but words dont describe my emotions

its funny you found a link to patriotsplanet.net

that is my home site
and you may or may not of quoted me

andre'
02-04-2008, 07:03 PM
I gave your site a namedrop in a thread I just made.
http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30777

I am patsin''

Double Barrel
02-04-2008, 07:08 PM
I don't know if that's so much cheating though, is it?

If you read Texan Bill's definition, I'd say it qualifies under "To violate rules deliberately".

The rules of the draft are the worst team gets the top pick. It has always been this way. Players do NOT have the luxury of choosing what teams they want to play for before the draft. Can you imagine the breakdown in the system if all the top picks pulled this stunt? Heck, who wants to go to the Dolphins in 2008?! But whoever is chosen first is obligated to do so regardless of their personal feelings. Thems the rules that 99.999% of players follow. (That 0.0001%, of course, is Eli.)

Just like I would be cheating on my taxes if I avoided paying them, Eli cheated the NFL draft by circumventing the process by violating rules deliberately.

Blazing Arrow
02-04-2008, 07:15 PM
everyone tries to get an advantage but some have class and know what is acceptable and utterly diplorable. I think they should fine the guy for walking off the field before the 0:00 mark. That was damaging to a fine closely fought game. It hurt the league and if you want to hold players accountable for their actions, do it to the coaches as well.

They would need to go back and fine allot of coaches and players in the past because it happens all of the time. Guy thinks the game is over (which it usually is) and they walk out and say there congrats and walk off. Time may still be running. The clock even ran to 0:00 at one point and they reset it back to one. So now the coaches need a guy on the sidelines to tell them the official time? I agree with TB on this one. If they guy walk out says his congrats only to find out a meaningless 1 second is still on the clock before a kneel should he really return to his sideline, wait it out and then go back though the same BS? Not likely. It seemed more like he wanted to hang his head and sulk which is his prerogative but to question his sportsmanship after he did everything you are supposed to is kind of silly.

axman40
02-04-2008, 07:56 PM
This just in from the American Medical Association


If you find yourself choking and unable to breathe, it is no longer suggested that you hold your hands around your throat and point to your back to request a Heimlich Maneuver. Simply display the Patriots logo prominently.



:cool:

GuerillaBlack
02-04-2008, 08:18 PM
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-10/61371/Bradychoke.jpg

Ole Miss Texan
02-04-2008, 09:55 PM
The rules of the draft are the worst team gets the top pick. It has always been this way. Players do NOT have the luxury of choosing what teams they want to play for before the draft. Can you imagine the breakdown in the system if all the top picks pulled this stunt? Heck, who wants to go to the Dolphins in 2008?! But whoever is chosen first is obligated to do so regardless of their personal feelings. Thems the rules that 99.999% of players follow. (That 0.0001%, of course, is Eli.)


That would be 'chaos' and would be a horrible thing for the NFL and draft for sure.

The only thing is I really don't remember/know a lot about what all went on regarding the pick/trade. What's the rule that goes 'usually the most simplest explanation is the correct one'? That surely could be the case, but gut instinct tells me it wasn't as simple as the general public likes to state, "Eli is a whiney baby and demanded a trade. PS, His daddy was onboard too and actually circumvented all the rules cuz he could cuz he's a Manning."

I remember Eli stating how he really didn't want to play for the chargers... shoot, Jay Leno finally got it out of him finally on his show. I'd just really like to know the details. Unfortunately that probably will never happen.

Ole Miss Texan
02-04-2008, 10:20 PM
Sorry, seems I'm the only one really interested in this but just FYI! haha

Behind the scenes
ESPN reported that immediately before the draft, Chargers' General Manager A.J. Smith refused the Giants' offer that consisted of three 2004 first day picks, and 2nd and 3rd round picks in 2005. Smith had demanded Giants defensive end Osi Umenyiora be part of the deal, and Giants general manager Ernie Accorsi would not permit it. Finally, after the Giants had made the move to draft Rivers, Smith agreed to an all-pick trade without Umenyiora. Smith called Accorsi to make a deal. Part of the deal was that the Giants would select quarterback Philip Rivers out of North Carolina State University with the #4 pick overall and trade that pick, plus other selections (including the Giants #1 pick the following year), to the Chargers for Manning's rights and additional considerations.[3] Smith submitted his desire for Philip Rivers, the Giants' 2005 1st round pick, and both the Giants' 2004 3rd round pick and 2005 5th round pick. Accorsi initially refused, but after Smith closed talks, Accorsi accepted the offer and the NFL finalized it.

Giants received
Rights to 2004 1st Overall Pick, Eli Manning.

Chargers received
Rights to 2004 4th Overall Pick, Philip Rivers.
2005 1st Round Draft Pick - Used to draft and sign Linebacker Shawne Merriman.
2004 3rd Round Draft Pick - Used to draft and sign Kicker Nate Kaeding.
2005 5th Round Draft Pick - Traded to Tampa Bay Buccaneers for Left Tackle Roman Oben.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manning-Rivers_trade

Hookem Horns
02-04-2008, 10:32 PM
The Chargers didn't make out too bad in that deal. They ended up with Merriman and Rivers.

BTW, someone might have mentioned Patriots Planet because it is our rival Patriots site as part of the F2Fa.com network that both this site and that one belongs to.

For the record I am not a Patriots "hater" although there were starting to get a little arrogant. I was rooting for the Giants because I root for them every week (unless they are playing the Texans and the Texans need the game). I used to live in Albany, NY and north Delaware just a couple of hours from Giants stadium. I am also a huge NY Rangers fan, they passed the Bruins in points yesterday. ;)

axman40
02-04-2008, 10:52 PM
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/thumb/e/eb/NewPatriotsLogo.jpg/180px-NewPatriotsLogo.jpg (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Image:NewPatriotsLogo.jpg) http://uncyclopedia.org/skins/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Image:NewPatriotsLogo.jpg)
Patriots new logo for the 2008-09 season
Enemies of Patriots


Obsama Bin Laden (http://uncyclopedia.org/index.php?title=Obsama_Bin_Laden&action=edit)
Peyton Manning (http://www.sports-venue.info/Movies/Peyton_Manning_United_Way.html)
Eli Manning
:shades:

WesmanTexanfan
02-04-2008, 11:01 PM
Don't forget Eli Manning CHEATED the NFL draft process, as well. He refused to sign with a team (Chargers) and forced them to trade the pick to the Giants.

I guess some cheating is o.k., like all animals are equal, but some more equal than others. :shades:

thats not OK either, thats weak crap..... but when you have leverage like that you can use it, it was more of a deal he made, as in "if you draft me, i wont play" not exactly cheating just being a bit spoiled....

WesmanTexanfan
02-04-2008, 11:03 PM
vvIf you read Texan Bill's definition, I'd say it qualifies under "To violate rules deliberately".

The rules of the draft are the worst team gets the top pick. It has always been this way. Players do NOT have the luxury of choosing what teams they want to play for before the draft. Can you imagine the breakdown in the system if all the top picks pulled this stunt? Heck, who wants to go to the Dolphins in 2008?! But whoever is chosen first is obligated to do so regardless of their personal feelings. Thems the rules that 99.999% of players follow. (That 0.0001%, of course, is Eli.)

Just like I would be cheating on my taxes if I avoided paying them, Eli cheated the NFL draft by circumventing the process by violating rules deliberately.


like is said in the above, Eli made more of an altumatum than cheat, he just wined untill he got his way. There is a HUGE difference....

and the taxes thing is a bad analogy, you dont have services that the government would like to use that dont envolve paying them money, like winning a war or somthing....(im assuming, maybe your superman, but i dont know)

Vinny
02-05-2008, 10:16 AM
I haven't had a chance to comment on the game but I really enjoyed it and love great defense...Manning's last drive and sack escape reminded me of Steve McNair's drive at the end of the game vs the Rams in the SB a few years back when he made a similar play to escape a sack as well...'cept of course that Eli made his play at the goal line and time ran out on McNair. Tremendous game.

Double Barrel
02-05-2008, 11:53 AM
thats not OK either, thats weak crap..... but when you have leverage like that you can use it, it was more of a deal he made, as in "if you draft me, i wont play" not exactly cheating just being a bit spoiled....

So then you're cool with ANY/ALL players refusing to play for a team that has the draft pick?

What's the point of the NFL draft then? Why not just ask these college kids what teams they like, and they let the GMs and agents work it out?

Funny how you excuse away someone cheating the system when it is in defense of your point.

Speculation was high that the San Diego Chargers would trade the No. 1 pick, inasmuch that Manning had spent the last several days letting the team know that for reasons not fully explained, he absolutely and positively would not serve if asked. Fans lustily booed him when he was individually introduced with several other potential top picks shortly before the draft began.
-----------------------
And no, he said, he had no intention of ever playing for the Chargers. Yes, he said, he would sit out the entire season if necessary. Maybe even go to graduate school. Wait for a godsend of a trade. Anything but report to San Diego.

- Source (USA Today) (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2004draft/2004-04-25-manning-reputation_x.htm)

Here is a good article that points out the importance of the draft for building teams and what it means to the league:

Eli Manning did the NFL a disservice (http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050925/news_1s25nflcol.html)

The Chargers did draft Eli. Anybody who says they then were forced to deal him as they did is mistaken. They held negotiation title to him, to do with as they wished. They could have tested how firm Manning was in his resolve and permitted him to twist slowly in the wind, but to do that would have been to chance getting nothing from the draft's No. 1 choice. Besides, Philip Rivers was out there. Title to Manning went to the New York Giants, as he had to have hoped it would.

If the draft's procedures were so repugnant to Eli, he should not have made himself eligible for it. We play by the rules in this country, and he knew the rules. He exempted himself from the spirit of the rules, for reasons that he has not disclosed except in the vaguest of terms. The decision was wholly his, he contends, which I cannot accept. Whoever made it, whether it was the Manning family or the player's agent, Tom Condon, did the NFL no service. The NFL is a lesser thing when its college draft is made meaningless.

He circumvented the rules. Most of us call that cheating the system. Perhaps you just lack these standards of judgement, I don't know unless I take you for face value of your words.

p.s. the taxes example was not a metaphor or an anology. It was to show that the word "cheating" can be seen in many different perspectives.

Texan_Bill
02-05-2008, 11:55 AM
So then you're cool with ANY/ALL players refusing to play for a team that has the draft pick?


Not at all... John Elway, Jim 'Krissy' Everett and Eli... :bat:

4Texans
02-05-2008, 12:35 PM
Not at all... John Elway, Jim 'Krissy' Everett and Eli... :bat:

Bo Jackson did the same thing I believe. He didn't want to play for Tampa who drafted him, so he sat out a year and played pro Baseball, and re-entered the NFL draft the next year.

I don't hold it against any of those guys. It's all about leverage and just how good of a player you are. The Manning / Rivers deal worked out well for both teams. The Giants got the guy they wanted and Manning was happy, and the Chargers got Rivers and a bunch of Draft Picks and have a solid team. It very well could have been a Chargers / Giants superbowl this year. Both those teams are going to be favorites for 2009.

Texan_Bill
02-05-2008, 12:56 PM
Bo Jackson did the same thing I believe. He didn't want to play for Tampa who drafted him, so he sat out a year and played pro Baseball, and re-entered the NFL draft the next year.

I don't hold it against any of those guys. It's all about leverage and just how good of a player you are. The Manning / Rivers deal worked out well for both teams. The Giants got the guy they wanted and Manning was happy, and the Chargers got Rivers and a bunch of Draft Picks and have a solid team. It very well could have been a Chargers / Giants superbowl this year. Both those teams are going to be favorites for 2009.

I hear ya.. I have some of the same feelings towards Bo, but the difference being, Elway had no intention of playing baseball.. Bo was more than happy to play, evidenced by the fact that he continued to play baseball when he re-entered the NFL draft...

Texas4Some
02-05-2008, 03:43 PM
It just to show you what a good defense can do. The Texans defense could eventually grow into a defense that could dominate.

:fans:

Second Honeymoon
02-05-2008, 05:09 PM
I hear ya.. I have some of the same feelings towards Bo, but the difference being, Elway had no intention of playing baseball.. Bo was more than happy to play, evidenced by the fact that he continued to play baseball when he re-entered the NFL draft...

Bo Jackson loved baseball and was just a phenomenal talent. He had a Mark Whiten arm, Lou Brock speed, and Barry Bonds power. The epitome of a 5-tool player.

Eli big leagued the Chargers but both franchises benefitted in the end. Not so much for the Elway trade. Jackson gets a pass on this because he had real options in baseball whereas Elway would have lanquished in the minors for a few years and the signing money for baseball players was not what it is today.

Second Honeymoon
02-05-2008, 05:13 PM
It just to show you what a good defense can do. The Texans defense could eventually grow into a defense that could dominate.

:fans:

QFT. With a few good moves here and there, we could really improve our team. We arent far away and the Giants situation just goes to show you that anything can happen. They lost Tiki and then Shockey gets injured and then the team starts playing well. Their DL just began to dominate games and their DC wasnt afraid to blitz even though their secondary is undermanned and injured. Maybe their DC actually has a pair....

Texan_Bill
02-05-2008, 05:35 PM
Bo Jackson loved baseball and was just a phenomenal talent. He had a Mark Whiten arm, Lou Brock speed, and Barry Bonds power. The epitome of a 5-tool player.

Eli big leagued the Chargers but both franchises benefitted in the end. Not so much for the Elway trade. Jackson gets a pass on this because he had real options in baseball whereas Elway would have lanquished in the minors for a few years and the signing money for baseball players was not what it is today.

Kudos!! Exactly my point about Jackson v. Elway and baseball.

************************************************

At least the trade of Jim 'Krissy' Everett netted the Oilers more than the Rams got out of that deal:
Kent Hill, William Fuller (stud) and three draft choices (two firsts and a fifth):
Alonzo Highsmith
Spencer Tillman
Terry McDaniel


Jim Everett had a decent career, but in addition to the players mentioned above, the Oilers had already signed Warren Moon a couple of seasons prior.

Noblesse Oblige
02-06-2008, 01:30 PM
He may have looked better then Brady but theres no way he was the MVP of the ballgame.

all the defensive hits would have been for naught had Eli not marched the team down the field for the go-ahead score--a TD, mind you, not just a FG like some other QB made his name off of.

GuerillaBlack
02-08-2008, 08:16 PM
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m114/whitexmagic/funny%20pics%20and%20gifs/hithard.gif

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3236/n90395047222875397690te0.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c224/djadams/18-1.jpg

gary
02-08-2008, 10:23 PM
Lol.

WesmanTexanfan
02-08-2008, 10:31 PM
Posted by Double Barrel
So then you're cool with ANY/ALL players refusing to play for a team that has the draft pick?

What's the point of the NFL draft then? Why not just ask these college kids what teams they like, and they let the GMs and agents work it out?

Funny how you excuse away someone cheating the system when it is in defense of your point.

no im not cool with it, but he was in control and did nothing illeagal, he was just acting like a big baby.....

now if the giants had given him x amount of money under the table to hold out and get traded to them, THAT would be cheating....

brakos82
02-09-2008, 11:16 AM
Can we just :locked: this thread already?

GuerillaBlack
02-09-2008, 12:47 PM
Hasn't even been a week yet.