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Voodaddy
11-25-2004, 05:00 PM
I have been a Texans fan since they started, and am probably the only Californian to actually see a home game (Green Bay on Sunday). Since the inception, Dom Capers has proven himself to be a great coach for a new team, but he lacks the ability to take a team to the next level. We have the talent, but his conservative coaching style will never produce a championship team. Until he is replaced, we will continue to be a .500 team at best.

Texas_Heat
11-25-2004, 05:10 PM
He got the Panthers to a Championship game,so I think he knows how to do it. I'm to the point this year that i'm happy if they sweep the hated Titans :jumpbanan and end the year at 6-10 or better.If they only go 5-11 or 4-12 I say off with their heads. :shocked

TEXANS84
11-25-2004, 05:11 PM
7-9, no less...and Capers keeps his job.

LiveForTheGame
11-25-2004, 05:54 PM
I'm a firm believer in the fans don't know the whole story. All we see is what happens on the field. Capers could be the problem, but I don't know and think that there is more to it than the coaches losing all these games. We do have a lot of talent, but we don't have a team that is developed yet for whatever reason that may be. I really don't know where the problem lies...but I am on the coaching staff's side for this one...probably bc I don't know enough about what happens behind the scenes...

WWJD
11-25-2004, 06:47 PM
I still like Capers. He's made some mistakes but I think he's the right coach for this team.

Voodaddy
11-25-2004, 09:26 PM
I completely understand that it is easy to blame the coaching staff... but it is quite clear that, while Capers is a really nice guy, and a good fundamental coach, he still lacks the skill to take a team to a championship. I have no problem letting a team develop, along with the coach, and if everyone is happy with him, then let's put our collective heads down, understand that it is going to be a long road, and just wait it out...but Capers still has yet to prove himself as a championship coach...also, what's with all the one way streets in Houston???? Man is it hard to get around!!!

nunusguy
11-25-2004, 09:40 PM
The back to back performances against Denver and Indy is what concerns me
the most. It's odd for a team to have such totally lackluster, heartless performances in consecutive games. I think that lack of effort is on the coaching staff.

AndreJ
11-25-2004, 09:45 PM
I do think part of it is in the coaching or atleast the playcalling, Carson Palmer did good last week in the first half but the calls in the second half left me wondering wtf they were thinking. The playcalling is way to conservative for me although i love da texans. We have fast wide recivers in bradford, johnson, and even armstong, i think they should try going over top alot more.

Porky
11-25-2004, 09:51 PM
Carson Palmer called our plays last week? That dude must be superman, playing in a day game, then calling the plays for the Texans by night. However, it does explain alot. :hmmm:

mike moffat
11-25-2004, 11:25 PM
Sorry to pop your bubble, pal. But, I too live in California and am a big Texan fan since the start. :BananaWav
I was on my way home from pheasant hunting last Sunday. The ESPN radio had the Sacramento Kings game on. What a rip! So, I didn't get to see the game. I just got to read about it and listen to the radio. And of course, the Bull Pen.
I hope that the lack luster showing in the Indy game was just a fluke. If it keeps up, then you have to blame the coaching for not preparing.

TexansTrueFan
11-25-2004, 11:53 PM
i dont blame the coaches for the the loss are "conservative" play calling. If we had all the talent we NEED than the plays they call would work, and we would hang onto win games. But we do not YET have enough talent to win the close games, and all the plays suddenly turn into CoNsErVaTiVe play calling. After next draft and FA than we should be ready to compete with the best and make a play-off run with capers STILL beign our coach. I think capers is a good coach.

bckey
11-26-2004, 12:18 AM
How come the Panthers and the Jaguars both made the playoffs in their 2nd year. The Jags went to the playoffs in their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th seasons. Three straight years. Most Houston fans are happy to go 4-12, 5-11, and whatever this year brings. If we go 6-10 then everyone will say we improved and therefore our plan is working. I think Capers has been given way too much time with no measuring stick to judge his franchise building plan by that I have heard of.
Players don't usually spend their careers with one team anymore due to free agency so long term plans have to take that into account. If you don't win then players don't want to stay and free agents are less likely to sign with your team.
I could half way stand Capers if we had a different OC and Capers stayed out of the offensive play calling totally.

Vinny
11-26-2004, 12:32 AM
The Jaguars were 7-9 their first season because in 1995 they took advantage of a brand new free-agent market system that was flooded with quality players. This was way before teams locked up all their big name talent. The Panthers and Jaguars were not your typical thin expansion teams. Both teams went into the playoffs right off the bat.

BornOrange
11-26-2004, 01:00 AM
Another difference is that Jacksonville and Carolina both had two first round picks their first year. If you don't think that is signifcant, imagine what the Texans would be like if in their inaugural draft they had drafted WR Javon Walker with their second pick in the first round and then drafted either DeShaun Foster or Clinton Portis instead of Jabar Gaffney.

TexanTom
11-26-2004, 01:04 AM
Another Texans fan out in California (still consider myself a Texan though). Got my Sunday Ticket all setup to watch the game every week. Been to a number of games at Reliant - even had season tickets last year even though I could only personally use them twice.

My thoughts on the coaching: everyone likes to jump on Capers and Palmer and the playcalling. I don't question the straight playcalling as much as the obvious lack of preparation on the road in Indy and Denver, the consistent Carr audible to the run, the lack of holes in the o-line (well, plenty for the d-linemen to go through but none for our RB), and our inability to tackle. Those are all things that I think come down on some level to coaching. I'm willing to give the staff the benefit of the doubt for a while, but as the talent level increases these things become increasingly unacceptable. Capers has a plan for this team and I'm willing to let him execute it, but obvious mistakes and lack of preparation can't be tolerated.

TexansTrueFan
11-26-2004, 01:13 AM
i like coach capers and feel he has done a great job in building this team, and he has a plan for this team and most of the pieces are already in place, by next year he will have this team where he wants it. They never gave him much of a chance to carry out his plan in Carolina. Look at all the bright young talent he has helped this team get, Its only a matter of time before he has all the pieces in place and once he does i feel he will go far with this team !

BornOrange
11-26-2004, 01:15 AM
Actually, after further research, it appears that Carolina and Jacksonville had their second first round picks at the very end of the round. If the Texans had the same first year draft picks, they would have been able to pick Jabar Gaffney with the last pick in the first round and then either Foster or Portis with the first pick in the second round.

bckey
11-26-2004, 02:05 AM
i like coach capers and feel he has done a great job in building this team, and he has a plan for this team and most of the pieces are already in place, by next year he will have this team where he wants it. They never gave him much of a chance to carry out his plan in Carolina. Look at all the bright young talent he has helped this team get, Its only a matter of time before he has all the pieces in place and once he does i feel he will go far with this team !


There is alot more to building a team than just having bright young talent. Like knowing what to do with it.

TxDavid
11-26-2004, 02:39 AM
I have to laugh at everyone. When sh!t hits the fan after a few bad runs, everyone start jumping on the coaches. All I have to say is this:

I never heard any cr@p about conservative coaching when we went for it on fourth down last year to win the game. If we'd lost alot of people would have jumped his @ss. Instead they sung praises of how lucky we were to have a coach that took a risk.

Let's not forget our improvement the past years - our first year we were 4-12 and the titans were 11-5 and indy was 10-6 (hell might as well throw in the jags at 6-10)

And our second year we improved (with massive injuries) to 5-11 when Indy & the titans went 12-4.

Now 3rd place in our division will be decided next week because we are tied with the titans at 4-6.

Our first year we won 2 conference games. In 2003 we won 3. We've won 4 this year and we are coming up on week 12 with 3 conference games left.

We are in the AFC people - it's tough out here. If we were in the NFC, we'd only be 1 game out of the playoff wild-card race.

Ponder that a bit before you start calling for the heads of people that have helped bring us to where we are now. Not one of us can begin to understand everything. We do not see or hear all that develops behind the Texans shroud.

bckey
11-26-2004, 03:48 AM
I have to laugh at everyone. When sh!t hits the fan after a few bad runs, everyone start jumping on the coaches. All I have to say is this:

I never heard any cr@p about conservative coaching when we went for it on fourth down last year to win the game.

Let's not forget our improvement - our first year we were 4-12 and the titans were 11-5 and indy was 10-6 (hell might as well throw in the jags at 6-10)

And our second year we improved (with massive injuries) to 5-11 when Indy & the titans went 12-4.

Now 3rd place in our division will be decided next week because we are tied with the titans at 4-6.

Our first year we won 2 conference games. In 2003 we won 3. We've won 4 this year and we are coming up on week 12 with 3 conference games left.

Ponder that a bit before you start calling for the heads of people that have helped bring us to where we are now. Not one of us can begin to understand everything. We do not see or hear all that develops behind the Texans shroud.


Bring us where we are now? Where is that? I don't claim to understand everything but I don't stick my head in the sand either. I state my opinions like everyone else here.

As far as Capers goes I haven't liked him since before the Texans existed (except as a defensive coordinator). Ditto for Palmer. Does that mean I can't be a fan of the Texans? No. We had coaches for the Oilers that I didn't like (Kevin Gilbride, Jerry Glanville) but it didn't stop me from cheering for them on gameday.

Is there some measuring stick out there for our franchise building plan? How do we know if it is working as planned? Do we just sit back for 5 years and then figure out if it was successful or not? Does 6-10 mean we are on the road to success?

I'm not as patient as Vinny and some others here. I see an ugly offense on the field that looks confused at times. It baffles me why Capers switched to a zone blocking scheme our 3rd year instead of starting with it from the beginning or not at all. I'm not worried at all about the defense other than the DL. One thing Capers will do is put a defense together that is usually top notch.

I hope Capers is on the right track and does eventually get the Texans to the playoffs and the superbowl. I just think in this day and age of free agency this plan is slooww if it is working. You can only do so much in the draft. The longer a plan is the more players that we will see come and go due to free agency and the cap.

Here are the draft choices and rules as we started out:

Player access plan approved by league


A player access plan for the Houston Texans expansion franchise that begins play in 2002 has been approved by a vote of NFL clubs.

The plan will enable the Texans to:


Acquire in February via an access draft 30-42 veteran players (or players with total 2002 salaries of at least 38 percent of the Texans' 2002 salary cap) from the rosters of the other NFL clubs.
Select a combined total of 14 extra rookie players in the next two college drafts (same as 1999 expansion Cleveland and 1995 expansion Carolina and Jacksonville in their first two drafts).
Sign veteran free agents between February and July 2002 under the same terms as the league's other 31 clubs and same terms as the expansion Cleveland club in 1999 and expansion Carolina and Jacksonville teams in 1995.
"The plan is very similar to the one we used for Cleveland," said NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue. "It is designed to offer the Texans the opportunity to become competitive at an early date."

The veteran access draft will be held on Monday, Feb. 18 (ESPN, 2:00 PM ET). It will require the existing 31 clubs to submit a list of five veteran players for selection by the Texans. Each club can expose only one player who was placed on injured reserve after the start of the 2001 regular season, only one player who has 10 or more years of free agency experience, and no more than two players with "spiked contracts" in 2002 (description below).

Neither punters nor kickers may be part of the list. Teams (other than the clubs advancing to the conference championship games) must submit their list of players for the veteran draft by Jan. 22. The two clubs losing in the conference championship games must submit their lists by Jan. 29, while the two Super Bowl teams must submit their lists by Feb. 5.

A "spiked contract" is defined as a contract in which:
-- The 2002 salary cap value is at least $1.2 million and represents an increase of at least 75 percent over the 2001 salary cap value; AND
-- The 2002 cash value is at least $1.2 million and represents an increase of at least 75 percent over the 2001 cash value.

The Texans must select between 30 and 42 players in the veteran draft or a fewer number of players with total salaries of 38 percent of the cap. An existing club can recall one player from its list after one of its players is selected. After a second player is selected from a club, that club can pull back both of its remaining players.

Houston will have 28 choices in the NFL Draft over the next two years, 14 in 2002, and 14 in 2003. If the Texans make the playoffs in 2002, the team will not have extra picks in 2003.

In the 2002 draft (April 20-21), the Texans will receive the first pick in each of the seven rounds. They will also receive seven additional picks to be allocated in the following manner:


One selection in each of Rounds 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 after all teams with a 2001 regular-season winning percentage of less than .500.
Final selection in Round 7 (after all compensatory selections).
In the 2003 draft, Houston will receive one regular pick per round based on its 2002 record, the same as all other clubs.

The Texans will also receive seven additional picks in the 2003 draft -- unless they make the playoffs in 2002, in which case they will receive no extra picks. These picks will vary depending upon Houston's 2002 won-loss percentage, as reflected in the following year's draft order. These additional picks would be allocated in the following manner:


2002 W-L Extra Picks in 2003 Draft
#25 through #32 One pick in Rounds 3, 4 and 5. Two picks in Rounds 6 and 7.
#19 through #24 One pick in Rounds 4 and 5. Two picks in Round 6. Three picks in Round 7.
#13 through #18 One pick in Round 5. Two picks in Round 6. Four picks in Round 7.
Playoff team No extra picks.

The first extra Houston pick in any round will fall 16 slots below the club's original choice in that round, but no lower than the end of the round, after any compensatory picks. The second, third or fourth extra pick in a round will be at the end of the round after any compensatory selections.

In 2001 and 2002, Houston will be prohibited from trading any draft picks to acquire rights to sign or obtain the contractual release of any non-player personnel (e.g., coach, general manager).

The Texans may begin signing previously-terminated free agents this year. From Dec. 27 until the end of the 2001 regular season, Houston may sign a maximum of 10 free agents (not under contract to other teams) to 2002 contracts.

The Texans will be eligible to sign both restricted and unrestricted free agents during the 2002 veteran free agency signing period, which begins March 1. They will have the same access to veteran free agents as the other 31 clubs.

During the period from Feb. 18 until July 15, however, the Texans' roster must include at least 30 players acquired from the veteran access draft or a fewer number of players acquired in the veteran draft with total salaries of at least 38 percent of the 2002 salary cap. Any of these players who are released after June 1 are entitled to a supplemental expansion bonus equal to the player's minimum Collective Bargaining Agreement salary even if he subsequently signs with another team.

Other personnel rules for the Texans:

Roster Size, Cutdowns:


Texans Rest of League
Offseason roster limit of 90 80
First cutdown to 70 65
Final cutdown to 56 53
Active/inactive roster limit of 56 through third week of regular season 53

NFL Europe League Exemptions: (description below)

Waiver Priorities: Through the third weekend of the 2002 regular season, Houston will have waiver priority, and thereafter waiver rights will be based on its 2002 record, the same as all other teams.

The 2002 Houston Texans access plan is basically the same as that followed by the Cleveland Browns in 1999, with the following exceptions:


There were no limitations on "spiked contracts" in the Cleveland Browns' 1999 Player Access Plan.
Players with prior injuries who are exposed in the Veteran Draft must be physically able to play by June 1, 2002 (as opposed to July 1 under the Cleveland plan).
The existing clubs have reserved the right to adjust the number and/or position of Houston's extra picks in the 2003 NFL Draft if Houston were to lose more than the 14 games Cleveland lost in its first season.
In addition to the 2002 extra roster spots listed above, Houston will receive a number of exemptions equal to the average number of roster exemptions earned by other NFL clubs under the provisions of the NFL Europe League Allocation Policy.

Here is who we took:

Houston's picks in order, with position, former team and 2002 salary cap hit:

1. Tony Boselli
OT, Jaguars, $6,883,332

2. Ryan Young
OT, Jets, $563,000

3. Aaron Glenn
CB, Jets, $8,013,177

4. Gary Walker
DT, Jaguars, $5,250,000

5. Jamie Sharper
LB, Ravens, $2,875,000

6. Jermaine Lewis
WR, Ravens, $4,289,333

7. Marcus Coleman
CB, Jets, $5,480,750

8. Seth Payne
DT, Jaguars, $2,775,000

9. Matt Campbell
OG, Redskins, $875,000

10. Matt Stevens
S, Patriots, $565,000

11. Jeremy McKinney
OG, Browns, $405,760

12. Ryan Schau
OT, Eagles, $563,000

13. Charlie Rogers
RB/KR, Seahawks, $563,000

14. Sean McDermott
TE, Bucs, $300,000

15. Jabari Issa
DE, Cardinals, $397,666

16. Avion Black
WR, Bills, $460,000

17. Danny Wuerffel
QB, Bears, $555,760

18. Brian Allen
LB, Rams, $452,000

19. Johnny Huggins
TE, Cowboys, $300,000


Here is the 2002 draft:

Round Overall Pick Player Pos School
1 1 David Carr QB Fresno St.
2 33 Jabar Gaffney WR Florida
2 50 Chester Pitts OG San Diego St.
3 66 Fred Weary C Tennessee
3 83 Charles Hill DT Maryland
4 99 Jonathan Wells HB Ohio St.
5 136 Jarrod Baxter FB New Mexico
5 153 Ramone Walker S Pittsburgh
6 173 Howard Faggins CB Kansas St.
6 190 Howard Green DT LSU
7 229 Greg White DE Minnesota
7 261 Ahmad Miller DT UNLV

Here is the 2003 draft:

Round Pick Player Pos School
1 3(3) Andre Johnson* WR Miami (FL)
2 9(41) Bennie Joppru TE Michigan
3 3(67) Antwan Peek OLB Cincinnati
3 11(75) Seth Wand OT NW Missouri St.
3 24(88) Dave Ragone QB Louisville
4 4(101) Domanick Davis HB LSU
6 19(192) Drew Henson* QB Michigan
6 41(214) Keith Wright DE Missouri
7 3(217) Curry Burns S Louisville
7 19(233) Chance Pearce C Texas A&M

And the 2004 draft:

Round Pick Player Pos School
1 10(10) Dunta Robinson CB South Carolina
1 27(27) Jason Babin DE W. Michigan
4 26(122) Glenn Earl S Notre Dame
6 5(170) Vontez Duff CB Notre Dame
6 10(175) Jammal Lord RB Nebraska
6 35(200) Charlie Anderson DE Ole Miss
7 9(210) Raheem Orr DE Rutgers
7 10(211) Sloan Thomas WR Texas
7 47(248) B.J. Symons QB Texas Tech

aj.
11-26-2004, 05:44 AM
If it works, it's a good play call or it's forgotten. If it doesn't work, it's usually a bad play call - but only if it's a running play. Going 3-and-out on three consecutive pass plays is "opening it up" while going 3-and-out on three consecutive running plays is conservative and grounds for firing everyone.

nunusguy
11-26-2004, 07:51 AM
"It baffles me why Capers switched to a zone blocking scheme our 3rd year instead of starting with it from the beginning or not at all."
Great post BCKEY, but let me take just a piece of it and respond: didn't
he do this because he felt this blocking scheme was most suitable for the
running style of a back like DD, that is, a "cutter" like Davis could make the
most of the opportunites presented by this scheme ? And if my premise is
correct, their assumption that Davis was our full-time RB for today and tomorrow turned out to be a major error in judgement especialy given the
investment in the new blocking scheme.

dan7
11-26-2004, 07:53 AM
Looking for a new coach....anyone interested in Mike Holmgren? This story just appeared in the Seattle Times this morning.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2002101039_les26.html

disaacks3
11-26-2004, 08:15 AM
If it works, it's a good play call or it's forgotten. If it doesn't work, it's usually a bad play call - but only if it's a running play. Going 3-and-out on three consecutive pass plays is "opening it up" while going 3-and-out on three consecutive running plays is conservative and grounds for firing everyone.That's over-simplifying it a bit. The Texans had two consecutive weeks of looking ill-prepared to face an opponent on the road in Denver and Indy. They follow that up by having moderate success on offense in the 1st half against Green Bay, and zip for offense in the 2nd half. the defense finally looked composed for the 1st time in 3 weeks, but with no 2nd half support from the offense in the 2nd half, they didn't stand much of a chance.

There weren't any critical injuries in the first half to explain the drop-off. So, we're left with a few options:

1) The opposition made adjustments that we couldn't counter - COACHING issue

2) The players weren't motivated in the 2nd half - COACHING issue

3) The players didn't execute in the 2nd half - COACHING issue

4) David Carr's audible choices were bad - COACHING issue

Remember that we didn't cough up the ball, got two picks off Favre and couldn't do anything with it. We may not be up to the skill level of Indy on Denver with our personnel, but we're not as far away as the scoreboard indicated. It's the coach's responsibility to adjust the playcalling to match his personnel and adjustments made by the other team. It's the coach's job to keep the players motivated and their heads into the game.

I refuse to lay this last loss at the feet of the players on the field. Those same players were able to build a 10-pt. heading into the locker room. This wasn't an injury-decimated lineup like last year that could give the excuse of wearing down as the game went on. The officials didn't hose us on some critical play. We didn't have an ill-timed turnover. We were flat out-coached by the other guys.

aj.
11-26-2004, 09:15 AM
You make my point (focusing on the negative). Since this thread is about someone wanting a new coach, talk about the coaching in the Oakland, Tennessee, Jacksonville, and Kansas City games if you're going to give a fair assessment.

Since when is players not executing a coaching issue? (given the fact that it's Week 11 and they 'should' know their assignments by now)

For those who need to play the blame game, I think there's enough blame to go around on both the players and the coaching staff for the second half performance against GB. The offensive line's performance was terrible all night and Carr was so locked in on AJ in the second half that it seemed like he wasn't even looking for anyone else.

Our running game was so inept that the Packers were able to get by in the second half by rushing 4 and keeping 7 back. Watch the Titans do the same thing on Sunday. That's not poor coaching or lack of adjustments, that's an offensive line who has yet to get the system and a running back who's not on the same page with his line (shared responsibility IMO and not just a coaching issue). Until we get a semblance of a running game, it's going to be very difficult for this team to win games.

Oversimplification is necessary at times on this board.

disaacks3
11-26-2004, 09:56 AM
You make my point (focusing on the negative). Talk about the coaching in the Oakland, Tennessee, Jacksonville, and Kansas City games if you're going to give a fair assessment of the coaching this season.

Since when is players not executing a coaching issue? (given the fact that it's Week 11 and they 'should' know their assignments by now) Fair Enough. We barely beat a pathetic Raiders team (3-7), beat a crippled Tennessee team (4-6), had one quality win in Jacksonville (6-4) ...though by no means a blowout, and got a very fortunate turnover that gave us a prayer in K.C. (3-7) We could have won our first two, if not for OUR turnovers, and those games were at least played closely for both halves. By far, our best offensive performance was late in the Vikings game.

With our record, it's quite easy to "focus on the negative". The teaching of a new line scheme falls on the coaching staff. Professional football players who aren't executing have a coaching issue, whether it's motivation-based or knowing their assignments.

The positives -

Carr - Can light up the scoreboard if he has time and enough outlets.
AJ - Has proven that last year wasn't a fluke, and can go up and fight for the ball if necessary.
Dunta - Has the skills and talent to make it at the Pro level, still has to stay focused and not give up big plays due to blown assignments.

Unfortunately, there's very little else I can point to as an "unabashed" success.

:soapbox: The players can reach a point where losing becomes acceptable to them. NFL Films coverage of the last game showed Carr & Johnson on the sideline, late in the game, still in a jovial mood, and seemingly "accepting" of a Favre comeback. Yes, these guys are pros, and "getting down on yourself" isn't constructive at most times. You have to wonder though, are they too used to losing the close ones that it doesn't "hurt enough" for them to care? Is a good, swift kick in the butt appropriate in these cases?

I love the Texans and they have my full support. That support, however, is neither blind, nor ignorant of the fact that we're running out of excuses to let games slip away unnoticed.

aj.
11-26-2004, 10:06 AM
I guess I don't see those three victories in the "glass half empty" mode like you do. Oh well -- to each his own.

Anyway, the San Diego and GB games are the two that stick in my craw the most. That's the difference between a 6-4 record where we're talking about playoffs and the current 4-6 record where people are talking about firing coaches.

The San Diego game was ours if it wasn't for the turnovers. I really didn't see coaching as 'the' root cause of that loss.

The GB game as I said earlier came down to shared responsibility between the coaches and the players in the second half. To not hold the players accountable for at least some of their actions on the field is a bizarre notion to me. Like you said, these are professional football players. Who are our on-field leaders and what is their role in pulling the team up by its bootstraps?

bckey
11-26-2004, 12:59 PM
The Green Bay game sticks in my craw too. It reminds me of the Patriots, Colts, and Titans games last year. Really the Patriots game last year is most similar because we got in field goal range and then proceeded to move backwards out of range and punted and lost. We can't continue losing these types of games. These are morale killers.

Double Barrel
11-26-2004, 03:40 PM
Looking for a new coach....anyone interested in Mike Holmgren? This story just appeared in the Seattle Times this morning.


Doesn't Holmgren also want to be the GM, too? I would not give up Charlie Casserly for anything, not even a Superbowl winning coach.

This is only 2.5 years into it, folks. We still HAVE A BETTER RECORD than teams that have existed far longer than our Texans.

Think about that! Our first year franchise still ended the inaugural season with a better record than three other established NFL teams!

Our second year in existence saw us finishing with a better record than nine other established NFL teams!

This year, there are FIFTEEN NFL teams with the same or worse records than the Texans!! Almost half of the league is currently in worst shape than our team! ("worst" as in we are still building and have a heck of a lot of great talent to build upon!)

For crying out loud, we are on the right track. Just have a little patience!

dang fair-weather fans and their glass half empty outlook :hmmm:

BornOrange
11-26-2004, 07:10 PM
1) The opposition made adjustments that we couldn't counter - COACHING issue

2) The players weren't motivated in the 2nd half - COACHING issue

3) The players didn't execute in the 2nd half - COACHING issue

4) David Carr's audible choices were bad - COACHING issue


1. Yes, adjustments that aren't countered are a coaching issue, but how about counters that aren't executed? This is the one point that could be laid at the feet of the coaching staff, but even then the blame could still lie with the players if they aren't executing the adjustments that the coaches make.

2. Professional players are supposed to motivate themselves. The rah-rah stuff is for high school and college. If a professional football player needs a coach to motivate him, he needs to start looking for another job because he won't be playing football very long.

3. How is player execution a coaching issue? Again, professional players have no one to blame for not executing except themselves.

4. David Carr is responsible for audibles he makes. There has been talk about Carr being limited in the audibles he can make, but he is still responsible for the plays he audibles into.

TexansTrueFan
11-26-2004, 08:38 PM
simple like some on here have said,,,we run a play it works its a (good play),, we could run the same play in a different game dont work and its a (bad play) ! Lord this bad play calling by the coaches is really making me sick, our players our pro's just like the opposition, why shouldnt the coaches have faith in the players to execute ?

TexanSuperstar
11-26-2004, 09:10 PM
i think our coaches are one minded. Like they see a play work once and they think it's the only one they can use. But they are wrong and need to start doing other plays. We have a great team and we could win and be even a better team. Our coaches have some work to do but, who doesnt?

whotex8
11-26-2004, 10:32 PM
TxDavid, I'm with you! I read all the stuff on this site about who's to blame after every game that we lose. Sorry guys, but as I stated a few weeks ago....there are those that jump on the band wagon when the team is hot, and the minute we lose a game they want to hang someone for the loss....well how about hanging your heads in a bit of shame for getting on and off the band wagon instead of supporting our team wholeheartedly. Our team will not make it to the top overnight. Wishful thinking (I myself wish that) but let's be realistic.
I myself get frustrated but I also enjoy watching the progress this team has made...and they will learn from their mistakes, but to put blame on one specific area of our establishment is totally unfair. And if you're expectations have been let down.....well maybe you need a good dose of reality and see the real progress we've made. If not...maybe you need to find yourself another team to cheer for...but I have a feeling that another team is going to disappoint you just as much.
If you think you can do better.....go and apply to be part of the staff and while you're at it, where it says "position applying for", enter "miracle worker" or "know-it-all".
Now.........let's support this team or get off the band wagon, you may have gotten on the wrong one. I don't wear rose-colored glasses....just clear-vision glasses!
Go Team! Kick some Butt Adams!

jagsfanincanada
11-26-2004, 10:57 PM
The Jaguars were 7-9 their first season because in 1995 they took advantage of a brand new free-agent market system that was flooded with quality players. This was way before teams locked up all their big name talent. The Panthers and Jaguars were not your typical thin expansion teams. Both teams went into the playoffs right off the bat.

You're thinking of the Panthers. The Jags were 4-12, then 9-7, then 11-5 back to back years, then 14-2, then started sucking. The Panthers were 7-9, 12-4, then started sucking.

Actually, after further research, it appears that Carolina and Jacksonville had their second first round picks at the very end of the round. If the Texans had the same first year draft picks, they would have been able to pick Jabar Gaffney with the last pick in the first round and then either Foster or Portis with the first pick in the second round.

The Jags had the 2nd and 19th picks in the first round in 1995. The Panthers had the 5th and 22nd. They had the 1st overall, but I think they traded it away.

disaacks3
11-27-2004, 03:17 AM
Several astute posters have commented that motivation isn't a coaching issue. They've further suggested that professional football players don't NEED to be motivated.

Let's try out a few names to test this theory.....Vince Lombardi, Bill Parcells, Jimmy Johnson, Chuck Noll, Joe Gibbs, Mike Shanahan, Tom Landry, Bill Belichick, Don Shula, John Madden, John Gruden, Bill Walsh. How many of these coaches, who represent a sizable percentage of ALL Superbowl victories, would agree with such an assessment (about motivation of professional football players)?

The ironic part of this, is that I show much more faith in our GM and players because of this critique, rather than despite it. Consider - If we actually existed in an NFL where all the players were completely self-motivated, then you have no choice but to call for the head of our GM....after all he's the one who drafted such lousy (non-motivated) players. Alternatively, the GM would be responsible for drafting players who aren't up to the NFL standard for blocking, running, passing, receiving, etc. Or is anyone suggesting that our players "were" good, got their $$, and have suddenly elected to tank on the coaches?

The simplest explanation is that we're lacking some position players who would make the coaching staff's job easier. Despite this, coaches are expected to "make do" as best they can, and try to win each and every game. I know we don't have the best O-line in the NFL, nor the best defense. Personnel wise, this team should be moderately improved over last year. While glimpses of potential future success are there, it appears that focus on the present has been lost. That "Focus" is the domain of the coaching staff...not the Owner, not the GM, not the Players. I'm not saying this 3-week old trend can't be turned around, nor have I asked for anyone to be fired. I'd just like "fans" to be honest, and not so blinded by their perceived loyalty to this organization that they fail to see the obvious trends when laid bare in front of them.

I refuse to accept that valid critique of the short-comings of this team right now, makes me some sort of band-wagoner. I've never "jumped-on, nor "jumped off" said band-wagon, as I've been behind the team since well before their first snap.

aj.
11-27-2004, 09:26 AM
The Jags had the 2nd and 19th picks in the first round in 1995. The Panthers had the 5th and 22nd. They had the 1st overall, but I think they traded it away.Initially the Jags and Panthers had the first and last picks of the rounds but they ended up picking in different slots throughout the draft because of numerous draft day trades.

The way it worked in '95 initially was the Panthers had the first overall and the Jags had the 2nd overall. Then they got the bonus picks at the end of the round (the Jags had the first bonus pick at the end of the round (pick #31) - there were 30 teams then - and the Panthers had pick #32. Then in the second round it reversed. The Jags initially had the first pick in the round (#33) and the Panthers initially had #34. The pattern continued. The bonus picks were at the end of the rounds.

But due to numerous trades, the first round came down like this:

At #1 (Carolina's pick), the Panthers traded with Cincinnati. The Bungles got #1 overall and took Ki-Jana Carter. The Panthers got Cincinnati's 1st and 2nd rounder's (#5 and #36).

At #2 - the Jags took Boselli

At #5 with the pick acquired in the trade with Cincinnati, the Panthers took Kerry Collins.

At #19 (Kansas City's pick), the Jags traded with KC and selected James Stewart. KC got #31, #97, and #134 in return from Jax.

At #22 (Green Bay's pick), the Panthers made a trade with the Pack selecting Tyrone Poole. The Packers got #32 and #65 in return from Carolina.

At #29 (San Diego's pick), the Panthers traded with the Chargers and selected Blake Brockermeyer. The Chargers got #34, #98, and #100 in return from Carolina.

KC picked at #31 per the trade shown above

GB picked at #32 per the trade shown above.

The remainder of the draft continued to be very active tradewise for both Carolina and Jax.

aj.
11-27-2004, 11:11 AM
I'd just like "fans" to be honest, and not so blinded by their perceived loyalty to this organization that they fail to see the obvious trends when laid bare in front of themNot sure who you are calling blind but my point through this entire debate has been that there's certain things that have shared responsibililty between players and coaches. In cases of motivation and execution I'd argue that the players hold as least equal and sometimes more responsibillity than the coaches.

Coaches are responsilble for teaching players the system and developing effective game plans. If a game plan isn't working, it's the responsibility of the coaching staff to make adjustments. Maybe that's the part you are really at issue with - I don't know - It's hard to tell - but game plan adjustments is only one of a myriad of problems that are plaguing this team --problems that are attributable to coaches and players. I see problems in both areas and have been writing about it for weeks.

Players are responsible for learning the system and implementing (executing) it according to the plan. If a game plan is not working, it's the unit captain or position rep's responsibility to provide input to the coaches on what is or isn't working and how they might alter the plan.

In terms of motivation, there are limits to how much a coach can or should be expected to motivate professional football players. At some point the competitive desire within a player has to emerge. Someone else said it before - players who aren't self-motivated to some degree won't last long on an NFL roster. I think at this level, players motivate one another more effectively than coaches motivate players.

Go ask someone like Aaron Glenn if he needs John Hoke or Vic Fangio to motivate him. What an insult that would be.

bckey
11-27-2004, 11:34 AM
Several astute posters have commented that motivation isn't a coaching issue. They've further suggested that professional football players don't NEED to be motivated.

Let's try out a few names to test this theory.....Vince Lombardi, Bill Parcells, Jimmy Johnson, Chuck Noll, Joe Gibbs, Mike Shanahan, Tom Landry, Bill Belichick, Don Shula, John Madden, John Gruden, Bill Walsh. How many of these coaches, who represent a sizable percentage of ALL Superbowl victories, would agree with such an assessment (about motivation of professional football players)?

The ironic part of this, is that I show much more faith in our GM and players because of this critique, rather than despite it. Consider - If we actually existed in an NFL where all the players were completely self-motivated, then you have no choice but to call for the head of our GM....after all he's the one who drafted such lousy (non-motivated) players. Alternatively, the GM would be responsible for drafting players who aren't up to the NFL standard for blocking, running, passing, receiving, etc. Or is anyone suggesting that our players "were" good, got their $$, and have suddenly elected to tank on the coaches?

The simplest explanation is that we're lacking some position players who would make the coaching staff's job easier. Despite this, coaches are expected to "make do" as best they can, and try to win each and every game. I know we don't have the best O-line in the NFL, nor the best defense. Personnel wise, this team should be moderately improved over last year. While glimpses of potential future success are there, it appears that focus on the present has been lost. That "Focus" is the domain of the coaching staff...not the Owner, not the GM, not the Players. I'm not saying this 3-week old trend can't be turned around, nor have I asked for anyone to be fired. I'd just like "fans" to be honest, and not so blinded by their perceived loyalty to this organization that they fail to see the obvious trends when laid bare in front of them.

I refuse to accept that valid critique of the short-comings of this team right now, makes me some sort of band-wagoner. I've never "jumped-on, nor "jumped off" said band-wagon, as I've been behind the team since well before their first snap.



Good coaches are innovative and motivational and design plays that work with the personnel that they have. Football is an emotional game.

I'm not calling for Capers head either. I don't care for him but Capers will build this team with a great defense. He falls short on offense though. Being a former defensive coordinator (which I wish he was for us) he doesn't seem to be a real offensive guru and that is ok if you have an offensive coordinator that is. Well, we don't with Palmer.

Some people on here love to elevate themselves as REAL fans and call others bandwagoneers if they aren't speaking positive 100% of the time. I agree with A.J. about people labeling others as bandwagoneers. I too have been a fan from day 1. No jumping on and off here. I was a fan of the Oilers since the 60's also. And you know we had some lean years with the Oilers.

Mistril48
11-27-2004, 11:50 AM
Initially the Jags and Panthers had the first and last picks of the rounds ... the Jags had the first bonus pick at the end of the round (pick #31) ... The Jags initially had the first pick in the round (#33) ...
Thank you for the effort.

The extra first round picks that the Jags and Panthers received were huge. Imagine having the 2nd, 31st and 33rd pick like the Jags did. The C'boys had to go without a 1st round pick this year to get 2 1st round picks the next year.

Your work also illustrates how important additional early picks are to give you the flexibility to trade around and get the players you really target - like the Texans were able to do with Babin. Next year, it will be interesting to see if we use our extra first day pick to move around in the first couple of rounds.

dan7
11-27-2004, 12:36 PM
Doesn't Holmgren also want to be the GM, too? I would not give up Charlie Casserly for anything, not even a Superbowl winning coach.

This is only 2.5 years into it, folks. We still HAVE A BETTER RECORD than teams that have existed far longer than our Texans.

Think about that! Our first year franchise still ended the inaugural season with a better record than three other established NFL teams!

Our second year in existence saw us finishing with a better record than nine other established NFL teams!

This year, there are FIFTEEN NFL teams with the same or worse records than the Texans!! Almost half of the league is currently in worst shape than our team! ("worst" as in we are still building and have a heck of a lot of great talent to build upon!)

For crying out loud, we are on the right track. Just have a little patience!

dang fair-weather fans and their glass half empty outlook :hmmm:

Mike Holmgren gave up his GM title at the end of the 2002 season; I think he'd be willing to take a job where he wouldn't have the GM title as well. The Seahawks front office has done a lousy job of retaining key players and I suspect this is what's causing Holmgren some grief right now...

Vinny
11-27-2004, 02:17 PM
Coaches put players in a position to make a play. The players have to make the play from there. If you learn your scheme and you put yourself in the position they tell you to be at then your talent must kick in and make a play, tackle a back, beat a block, or shake a block. A coach can only do so much.

On motivation...

Guys like Ray Lewis get none of his fire from Brian Billick. Hines Ward doesn't blow people up because of a Cowher speech. Brett Farve never needed a coach to make him throw a block for his running back. Players have to generate their own anger and play with their own intensity.

disaacks3
11-27-2004, 03:14 PM
On motivation...

Guys like Ray Lewis get none of his fire from Brian Billick. Hines Ward doesn't blow people up because of a Cowher speech. Brett Farve never needed a coach to make him throw a block for his running back. Players have to generate their own anger and play with their own intensity. Then I'm back to a question, did we draft / acquire a bunch of poorly motivated players?

AJ - I do understand where you're coming from on shared responsibility. I just see it as much more of a coaching issue after three straight games. If this was only the second half of the Packers game that we were talking about, then I could see it as more of a player issue.

Here's a question for gurus out there more knowledgeable than I am:
Could this simply be (on offense only) a case of player frustration with learning an all-new blocking scheme? If so, would that be a player issue (for failure to execute), or a case of a poor coaching decision (asking for an adaptation your players weren't ready for)? Basically, I don't see these things as stuff that "just happens", I think there must be a root cause (other than the expansion excuse...again) somewhere that can be fixed. Thoughts?

Vinny
11-27-2004, 03:20 PM
I just think we have played teams that are better than us the last three weeks. We have big holes in our team. We totally ditched the two-TE sets because both of our TE's are one-dimensional (hard position to find and the guy we were counting on wasn't ready...Joppru), and Dom Davis is not a threat out of the backfield. Carr has yet to beat the cover-2 scheme teams are using against us and he clearly isn't confortable challenging it or finding his WR2 or WR3 on a regular basis. The problem we are facing is that teams will press the WRís and roll the linebackers up to take away the 3-step drops, hitches and slants. Teams have figured out that you just play Davis soft and he will not hurt you. They can then play a Safety over the top because we donít have a back that can break the contain of the second level. Dom has nearly 200 carries and about 3 runs over 9 yards. What you have in the running game is 9 players blocking 11. If everyone gets their block you have 2 unblocked players. You can scheme one one of those players but the Running back needs to be able to beat the last unblocked player at least some of the time and for whatever reason he just hasnít beat anyone straight up.

On Defense, show me a team that is starting 3 rookies and I will show you a .500 unit.

Ibar_Harry
11-27-2004, 05:45 PM
I remember last year when DD was making the great runs we would see Wiegert and others out there leading the way. They were getting off of the line and we were very effective. The reason I bring that up is that we are not seeing that this year. That leads me back to what has changed, and of course, the answer is the new O-line scheme. Why don't people look at last years' games and see how effective the old scheme was and how DD was responding to it. It wasn't all DD, but it was the effectiveness of the old scheme, the O-line and DD working together. You simply don't have that this year and you have Carr running for his life once again. It really is that simple.

Ibar_Harry
11-27-2004, 06:03 PM
Vinny isn't this another way to break the defense. (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=1322) A nice little article on what Carr and his receivers are doing after practice. I think this is what a lot of people have been saying, but we don't see it in the games. Interesting comments regarding Starling. There is more than one way to skin a cat and its about time we learn that. I said when AJ was picked up I was hoping he and Carr would do what Harrison and Manning do. Sounds like people are finally getting the message. The timing between the QB and his receivers is everything, and if done right, is unstopable. You have to trust the other guy to be there. If he is there's no contest. Carr has a gun of an arm and it should be fullfilling its mission.

Ibar_Harry
11-27-2004, 06:12 PM
Now having shown the positive I will throw in a negative. That is why are they practicing without pads. You are going to be slower and less agile with pads on. They need to practice at least in game dress. Sorry, but its just another example of the less than perfect practice.

Texan Gal 312
11-29-2004, 08:00 AM
Looking for a new coach....anyone interested in Mike Holmgren? This story just appeared in the Seattle Times this morning.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2002101039_les26.html


I can only imagine the roasting Holmgren would be taking if he was our coach and the team performed like his Seattle team this weekend. He was hired in Seattle to put them over the top - I would say he has failed.

HoustonFan
11-29-2004, 09:31 AM
I think most of the play calling has been bad. The running game has not been all that great this year, and w/ the talent they have at WR I am amazed that they still choose to run the ball.

I read that same article on Carr and the extra 20 mins after practice to work w/ the WRs. Excellent. Now let's just see it put to work in the games, COACH.

fresno8
11-29-2004, 01:06 PM
I have been a Texans fan since they started, and am probably the only Californian to actually see a home game (Green Bay on Sunday). Since the inception, Dom Capers has proven himself to be a great coach for a new team, but he lacks the ability to take a team to the next level. We have the talent, but his conservative coaching style will never produce a championship team. Until he is replaced, we will continue to be a .500 team at best.

I agree, and have watched the Texans from the start. Until Houston ditches their conservative style they will be .500 at best. The play calling against Green Bay in the second half was horrible if they'd let Carr continue to throw they would have won. Domanic Davis has a 3.4 yard per carry average because teams put 8 men in the box and he has no where to run. We have the quarterbacks and receivers to put up huge numbers and a good running back but Capers/Palmer are stunting Carr and the offenses growth. Throw the Ball and Capers or Palmer has to go.

TexansTrueFan
11-29-2004, 01:15 PM
I agree, and have watched the Texans from the start. Until Houston ditches their conservative style they will be .500 at best. The play calling against Green Bay in the second half was horrible if they'd let Carr continue to throw they would have won. Domanic Davis has a 3.4 yard per carry average because teams put 8 men in the box and he has no where to run. We have the quarterbacks and receivers to put up huge numbers and a good running back but Capers/Palmer are stunting Carr and the offenses growth. Throw the Ball and Capers or Palmer has to go.


Agreed !!!! We need to utilize the pass to open up the running game !

djanssen
11-29-2004, 04:45 PM
Coaches should utilize a teams strengths, running up the middle is not one of the Texans strenghts. Last year I watched the Texans loose four games in the final seconds, at home in which they led going into the forth quarter, and now last week against Green Bay. They get a lead in the first half by throwing the ball then start trying to run out the clock in the third qtr. Lets stay with what got us the lead. Our defense is not good enough to compensate for the lack of offense (three and out) the Texans have in the second half. The Titans and Viking games were prime examples, the Texans were behind most the game and had to play aggressive football for four qrts. I believe the Texans scored 21 points in the second halves of those two games.

Number19
11-29-2004, 09:12 PM
I thought Lopez's analysis in this Monday's Chronicle was excellant :

...Palmer's approach regarding his tight end had more to do with Derick Armstrong's developement...using four wide receivers gives the Texans a better matchup with Armstrong's speed and catching ability..."what we've done is tried to identify a role for each and every player", Palmer said...but because of the check-offs Carr must make when he sees a defense that counters a four wideout set, he has checked to running plays that wound up futile...defensive coordinators were daring the Texans to run, and the Texans took the bait...(without a tightend) the line wound up looking bad. The play-calling wound up looking bad. The offense wound up looking bad...

A good argument for putting the blame squarely on Palmer. Bad decisions on his part and clearly out-coached by the opposition's defensive coordinators.

Palmer's deficancies may run deeper than this, but this is a good start. The question remains, will he continue to beat the same dead horse or will he have learned his lesson from Sunday's game. Without change, the Texans are not much better than a .438 team. Even looking ahead one year, and with another draft, is Palmer capable of using his personel effectively?

aj.
11-29-2004, 09:53 PM
The play calling against Green Bay in the second half was horrible if they'd let Carr continue to throw they would have won The Texans called 18 pass plays and 8 running plays in the second half against GB. Carr checked down from pass to run 3 times.

AndreJ
11-29-2004, 09:57 PM
The Texans called 18 pass plays and 8 running plays in the second half against GB. Carr checked down from pass to run 3 times.

Yeah we didn't have a run game thats why he kept passing but without that running game and knowing they could get a good rush with 3 or 4 lineman they dropped so many back into pass coverage Carr had nowhere to throw the ball

wags
11-29-2004, 09:58 PM
The Texans called 18 pass plays and 8 running plays in the second half against GB. Carr checked down from pass to run 3 times.

AJ, you know perception rules here, not reality. :slap:

Double Barrel
11-29-2004, 10:54 PM
The Texans called 18 pass plays and 8 running plays in the second half against GB. Carr checked down from pass to run 3 times.

Well, his audibles are based on what he sees, and they are scenarios that the coaches have told him to audible to the run.

The fact is that we do not control the trenches. Without dominating the LOS, we cannot establish the running game. Without the respect for the run, defenses can play us on the pass. Plus, we cannot develop long pass routes if Carr is constantly being threatened by penetration.

It's as simple as that, folks. Control the trenches and your offense opens up in so many ways.

rhc564
11-30-2004, 01:04 AM
The Texans called 18 pass plays and 8 running plays in the second half against GB. Carr checked down from pass to run 3 times.
....so we call passes that get us yardage like a run-- gotta love that
3 yarder to AJ in the GB game when we needed 7-- extended vertical
passes where we stretch the field were needed

nunusguy
11-30-2004, 09:05 AM
I wonder about the internal chemistry of this team ? They had Carr miked up
for the Packers game, and well, he didn't sound very inspirational to me. I
wonder how much the O unit looks up to him ?
Jamie Sharper surely must be the leader on the D side. Glenn to probably ?
This is a huge, invaluable intangible that has a lot to do with the ebb & flow
of Mighty Mo (momentum) on game day.
Perhaps some of our insiders on the board could offer some insight ?

bckey
11-30-2004, 10:28 AM
....so we call passes that get us yardage like a run-- gotta love that
3 yarder to AJ in the GB game when we needed 7-- extended vertical
passes where we stretch the field were needed



I agree. Our passing plays sometimes have me scratching my head.

aj.
11-30-2004, 05:14 PM
....so we call passes that get us yardage like a run-- gotta love that
3 yarder to AJ in the GB game when we needed 7-- extended vertical
passes where we stretch the field were neededDid you notice the defense that GB was in almost the entire 2nd half? This is stuff you can't see on TV but what I saw was two man-up corners, two deep safeties in cover 2, a nickel back and two LBs at least 5 yards off the line. That's 7 back and 4 up. It was extremely crowded in the secondary. You know why they could get away with that? Because our OL sucked that night like it has most of the season. Our OL couldn't block anyone so GB was getting away with rushing 4 and they were able to completely shut off our run AND to make matters worse they were able to put considerable pressure on Carr with 4 guys against 5 and sometimes 6 Texans blockers. Deplorable I tell ya. It all starts with the OL my friends. Palmer's play calling ain't perfect (show me an OC's whose is) but it's definitely behind OL performance and various aspects of defensive performance on the list of reasons of why we lost to GB, Denver, Indy, Minnesota, San Diego, and Detroit.

bckey
12-01-2004, 02:34 AM
Did you notice the defense that GB was in almost the entire 2nd half? This is stuff you can't see on TV but what I saw was two man-up corners, two deep safeties in cover 2, a nickel back and two LBs at least 5 yards off the line. That's 7 back and 4 up. It was extremely crowded in the secondary. You know why they could get away with that? Because our OL sucked that night like it has most of the season. Our OL couldn't block anyone so GB was getting away with rushing 4 and they were able to completely shut off our run AND to make matters worse they were able to put considerable pressure on Carr with 4 guys against 5 and sometimes 6 Texans blockers. Deplorable I tell ya. It all starts with the OL my friends. Palmer's play calling ain't perfect (show me an OC's whose is) but it's definitely behind OL performance and various aspects of defensive performance on the list of reasons of why we lost to GB, Denver, Indy, Minnesota, San Diego, and Detroit.


AJ I agree with you about our offensive line. The only reason they looked good against the Titans was because they were missing A. Haynesworth and they already start 2 rookies there also. 1 cb, both safeties, and the lolb out also.
Palmer stinks period. He always has. His offense is bland and uninspiring.

aj.
12-01-2004, 06:11 AM
Palmer stinks period. He always has. His offense is bland and uninspiring He always has? (http://www.jaguars.com/History/highlights_97.asp)

He always has? (http://www.jaguars.com/History/highlights_98.asp)

rhc564
12-01-2004, 07:44 AM
He always has? (http://www.jaguars.com/History/highlights_97.asp)

He always has? (http://www.jaguars.com/History/highlights_98.asp)

...well, at least Palmer--- GOOD or BAD --- has found a place he can stay
for awhile, regardless of results because there is a 'plan.' :headbang:

bckey
12-01-2004, 10:19 AM
...well, at least Palmer--- GOOD or BAD --- has found a place he can stay
for awhile, regardless of results because there is a 'plan.' :headbang:


Too bad it includes him.

rhc564
12-01-2004, 12:07 PM
Defenders of the Texans offense when it is unable to move the chains
or score, ala the GB game, blame it on 2 things-- the OL and cover 2. This
thinking sets a nice table for the rest of the NFL because we've found no
way-- at least against the better teams-- to over come this. Thus, we
either get blown out by the good teams or, as has happened several times
in the last 3 years, we play them close but-bottom line-- we lose.

I'll leave the OL alone for now and talk about cover 2. What I'm hearing on
this board is that the Texans are doomed to failure/losing as long as the
opponent uses cover 2, end of story for those thinkers. Other board posters
believe someone on the Texans should be charged with counter acting with
a plan that deals with cover 2 and still lets the team move the chains and
score, giving the team a chance to win those close games.

This is where the OC comes in. It matters little what he did with other teams
in the past or even with the Texans last year--- what is he doing about
cover 2 now? I know, OL. Built in excuse. Like a couple coaches mentioned
after losses last week, "we had 11 players on the field, they've got to step
up, no excuse.' The Patriots are playing and winning with a 'gutted' secondary, using a variety of coverages including LB's or receivers, whatever
it takes--- like their Coach says, there are no excuses.

Sure, the easy road is to make excuses for failure but that sets a dangerous
path because the problem is-- once you accept excuses, you'll always accept
them. Bad OL today. Bad weather tomorrow. Drop balls the next game, etc.

...at least try- use some imagination- what worked yesterday may not work
the next time so think ahead--- play the game to the fullest with the players
we have today...like so many coaches have said, these players are paid
to 'step up.' :patriot

wags
12-01-2004, 12:41 PM
The best way to beat the cover 2 is to run the ball. If you can run then the safety eventually has to come down. Problem is we have only 2 good games running the ball.

aj.
12-01-2004, 12:44 PM
Poor offensive line play isn't an excuse. It's a fact. It's one of the main reason why the Texans haven't been able to run the ball consistently this season.

I asked Aaron Glenn his opinion of how to best defeat the Tampa 2. He said "send a quick TE up the middle seam."

infantrycak
12-01-2004, 01:41 PM
I'll leave the OL alone for now and talk about cover 2.

Other board posters
believe someone on the Texans should be charged with counter acting with
a plan that deals with cover 2 and still lets the team move the chains and
score, giving the team a chance to win those close games.

This is where the OC comes in.

You can't leave the OL out is the problem. If the game plan is run and throw to the seam but your OL sucks and lets the RB get hit in the backfield and the QB sacked whose fault is it that the game plan doesn't work?

Prior to jumping straight to the OC, you also have to consider the QB. Anyone here want to tell us that against all the cover 2 teams this year that Gaffney, Armstrong and the TE's haven't been running patterns up the seams? Funny, seems to me they are there but the ball isn't in their hands. Is that the OC's fault or Carr's fault?

Ultimately Palmer has to be accountable second to Capers, but game plans can't only be judged by results. How about a reverse example--who should get more of the credit in Indy for their offense, the OC or Manning, Harrison, Edge, the OL that has only given up 6 sacks all year? JMO, but it is good, consistant execution that makes them great not some hinky, special game plan.

rhc564
12-01-2004, 03:56 PM
...results, how do we get acceptable results?..and, who decides how we
get those results?...and, when? :hmmm:

infantrycak
12-01-2004, 04:24 PM
...results, how do we get acceptable results?..

By getting consistant solid performances out of all the various little bits that make up a team--coaching and players. For reference, see New England Patriots.

and, who decides how we
get those results?...

That would be everyone also--the coaches by game planning and inspiring the players and the players by executing to their potential consistantly.

and, when? :hmmm:

When the OL starts opening holes for the RB.
When DD doesn't drop the ball (seems to be fixed) isn't tentative (probably fixed) and stays healthy.
When the OL gives David Carr all day long like coincidentally most of the folks that currently are regarded as the great QB's have--see Favre sacked 5 times this year and Manning sacked 6 times this year. It is a lot easier to have vision, not throw INT's etc. when you aren't on your back.
When Carr consistantly makes progressions, improves his play fake, looks for the seam, improves his pocket awareness and decides if he is the QB that sent the ball to AJ in triple coverage or the one that will avoid single coverage to dump down to the RB.
When Walker steps up his play to his 2002 form.
When Babin, Peek, Robinson, Coleman and Earl all get some time under their belts and used to their in many cases new position.

rhc564
12-01-2004, 04:46 PM
By getting consistant solid performances out of all the various little bits that make up a team--coaching and players. For reference, see New England Patriots.



That would be everyone also--the coaches by game planning and inspiring the players and the players by executing to their potential consistantly.



When the OL starts opening holes for the RB.
When DD doesn't drop the ball (seems to be fixed) isn't tentative (probably fixed) and stays healthy.
When the OL gives David Carr all day long like coincidentally most of the folks that currently are regarded as the great QB's have--see Favre sacked 5 times this year and Manning sacked 6 times this year. It is a lot easier to have vision, not throw INT's etc. when you aren't on your back.
When Carr consistantly makes progressions, improves his play fake, looks for the seam, improves his pocket awareness and decides if he is the QB that sent the ball to AJ in triple coverage or the one that will avoid single coverage to dump down to the RB.
When Walker steps up his play to his 2002 form.
When Babin, Peek, Robinson, Coleman and Earl all get some time under their belts and used to their in many cases new position.


...shame it's not a perfect world!!! I don't think all your 'when's' are going
to happen, at least not at the same time--- but I'm a hopin! :jumpbanan

bckey
10-26-2005, 12:13 PM
I thought I would revive this thread from last season. We were already getting concerned after the Denver and Indy losses. Some were concerned the day they anounced Capers as hc.

NativeJPR
10-26-2005, 12:25 PM
He got the Panthers to a Championship game,so I think he knows how to do it. I'm to the point this year that i'm happy if they sweep the hated Titans :jumpbanan and end the year at 6-10 or better.If they only go 5-11 or 4-12 I say off with their heads. :shocked
Capers needs to go NOW, the players obviously don't want to play for him and he obviously doesn't know how to get 100% out of them. About the Titans.......you can't sweep a team that has already beat you.:texflag:

Exascor
10-26-2005, 12:36 PM
About the Titans.......you can't sweep a team that has already beat you.:texflag:That post was from 11-25-2004. It's tough to tell when an old post gets bumped like that though.

Bsacamano
10-26-2005, 01:26 PM
What do you guys think of getting Stoops as the head coach and Mike Leech as the offensive coordinator in 2006? I think both of these guys would provide a certain swagger and level originality that this team is sorely lacking.

fball
10-26-2005, 01:59 PM
Hey guy's how bout this, I read on espn that mike martz is not happy with the rams because of the president, maybe when we fire capers at the end of the year we can make a pitch to him. I think we need a offensive minded coach and I think he would do well here, what do ya'll think? :drool:

Texas
10-26-2005, 02:01 PM
Capers is too conservative. I beleive we need to get a more aggressive coach/ playing style and use our players like they are supposed to be.

NativeJPR
10-26-2005, 03:03 PM
why doesn't Capers at least abandon the 3-4 D, our guys apparently can't handle it or the staff can't properly coach it