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View Full Version : Todd McShay's Latest Draft


kastofsna
01-17-2008, 01:37 AM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/insider/columns/story?columnist=mcshay_todd&id=3197734&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2fdraft08%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist %3dmcshay_todd%26id%3d3197734

18. Houston Texans
Record: 8-8
Biggest needs: CB, G, WR, S, OT
Projected pick: Kenny Phillips*, S, Miami
The Texans boast arguably the best young defensive line in the NFL thanks to former first-round picks DE Mario Williams (2006) and DT Amobi Okoye (2007), and now they need a ball hawk in the secondary who can capitalize when that line forces bad throws from opposing quarterbacks. Phillips could be the right man for the job. He needs good coaching to improve his consistency, but there isn't a defensive back in this year's class who can stack up with Phillips' overall blend of natural physical tools.

LonerATO
01-17-2008, 03:13 AM
I like Kenny Phillips but I would much rather have Aqib Talib in the Secondary

beerlover
01-17-2008, 03:35 AM
I despise any mock draft that supplants Malcolm Jenkins with Mike Jenkins just because of need (or last name?) clearly Mike is not Malcolm, he lacks the same speed, tackling ability & big play potential. weak just weak guys

PHAROAH
01-17-2008, 03:53 AM
I like Kenny Phillips but I would much rather have Aqib Talib in the SecondaryAqib is too slow and isn't worth a 1st rounder IMO after he run slow times at the combine he will fall to the 2nd round.:pirate:

Maddict5
01-17-2008, 04:53 AM
talib was already gone in this mock @ 16

BattleRedToro
01-17-2008, 07:02 AM
I like how McShay has identified WR as one of the Texans Biggest Needs, when there are bigger needs like LB or RB. When an "analyst" can't even identify a team's biggest needs then there is no further reason to listen to their "analysis".

Kaiser Toro
01-17-2008, 07:09 AM
I like how McShay has identified WR as one of the Texans Biggest Needs, when there are bigger needs like LB or RB. When an "analyst" can't even identify a team's biggest needs then there is no further reason to listen to their "analysis".

Yeah, how they do not have Center is not surprising, it is expected. None of these guys know our team, except for Mike Mayock when it comes to the draft.

The1ApplePie
01-17-2008, 07:23 AM
Aqib is too slow and isn't worth a 1st rounder IMO after he run slow times at the combine he will fall to the 2nd round.:pirate:

I think they are looking at Talib as more of a free safety in the draft than a corner.

opiedopie
01-17-2008, 10:08 AM
im tellin ya its going to be Limas Sweed at #18

Lucky
01-17-2008, 10:13 AM
im tellin ya its going to be Limas Sweed at #18
Who do the Texans trade down with?

santo
01-17-2008, 10:24 AM
Who do the Texans trade down with?


Dallas

Second Honeymoon
01-17-2008, 10:28 AM
Kenny Phillips would be a sweet pick for the Texans. Limas Sweed better not be chosen by the Texans. As for WR for the Texans, Todd calls WR a need area and it is if we dont sign Andre Davis. Walter is good but Jones is far from being ready to be our #3. If we resign Davis, WR is not needed but if someone else signs him, we gotta get another WR through the draft or FA to compliment AJ and Walter....Jones just seems soft since he took that big hit early in teh 07 season.

bah007
01-17-2008, 10:31 AM
im tellin ya its going to be Limas Sweed at #18

Geez. I hope not.

That's all we need. A one-dimensional WR in the 1st round.

opiedopie
01-17-2008, 10:54 AM
no I dont realy like Sweed but I do think the Texans will draft some sort of offensive weapon. RB or WR.

BigBull17
01-17-2008, 11:10 AM
Kenny Phillips would be a sweet pick for the Texans. Limas Sweed better not be chosen by the Texans. As for WR for the Texans, Todd calls WR a need area and it is if we dont sign Andre Davis. Walter is good but Jones is far from being ready to be our #3. If we resign Davis, WR is not needed but if someone else signs him, we gotta get another WR through the draft or FA to compliment AJ and Walter....Jones just seems soft since he took that big hit early in teh 07 season.

EVen if Davis doesnt resign with us, WR isnt as big of a need as OLB, CB, S, OT, C, G, DT, DE, ect... You can get quality depth in FA for average cash or in the later rounds in FA.

TexansSeminole
01-17-2008, 11:19 AM
I despise any mock draft that supplants Malcolm Jenkins with Mike Jenkins just because of need (or last name?) clearly Mike is not Malcolm, he lacks the same speed, tackling ability & big play potential. weak just weak guys

I think all of this is easily arguable. I'd chose Mike over Malcolm.

beerlover
01-17-2008, 11:26 AM
I think all of this is easily arguable. I'd chose Mike over Malcolm.

everything is arguable if for no other reason the sake of argument :)

TexansSeminole
01-17-2008, 11:47 AM
everything is arguable if for no other reason the sake of argument :)

I see alot of big play potential in this guy. Here are just a few videos. http://youtube.com/watch?v=uzC4aoMUJm4. http://youtube.com/watch?v=942miu-cRY0. Here is another that shows his speed: http://youtube.com/watch?v=82rIDkFBVhU&feature=related

When he gets the ball in his hands, I see Cromartie and Ed Reed type of big play ability. He is not just a danger of picking you off but he has a nack for getting into the endzone. He has excellent speed and size, I think alot of people are going to be impressed at the combine.

He made so many plays this year and last he probably won't even be available for us at 18.

This is a good interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvs6pZtcW2w&NR=1.

LonerATO
01-17-2008, 11:54 AM
Jenkins is another great CB but I see him gone int he first 10 picks

threetoedpete
01-17-2008, 11:56 AM
Dallas

Seattle.

If it's not banging one of four holes...it's a busted pick.


Sweed is going to have a tremendous learning curve....much like Jabar Gafney.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/members/news/list.php?ListTrigger=4&ListYear=2007


.

nunusguy
01-17-2008, 12:02 PM
I like how McShay has identified WR as one of the Texans Biggest Needs, when there are bigger needs like LB or RB. When an "analyst" can't even identify a team's biggest needs then there is no further reason to listen to their "analysis".
If the Texans are able to resign Andre Davis, WR is arguably their strongest
position instead of being one of their biggest needs.

beerlover
01-17-2008, 12:15 PM
thanks for the video.

the pick was in cover two where he dropped back in zone, read the QB telegraph the throw & broke on the ball. on the kick-off he showed nice speed, vision & cut back ability.

with the value placed on CB I can understand why he grades out to be a first rd. pick. excellent size, decent speed (not electrifying) fluid hips, change in direction & ability to read coverage in space. I get all that. but on the flip side his tackling skill is poor, again from what I've seen, the level of man to man coverage against competition is suspect, & while he does have the ability to take it to the house they're are certainly higher rated prospects out there. to compare him to & select him over Malcolm Jenkins is frankly a bit of homerism or something strange at work going on here. But since Malcolm is staying in school another year there is no need to argue the point any futher.

my beef as stated in the opening is that these Mock drafts have certain teams slotted by need taking a cb & by god they're going to take a cb so they elevate who they think is the next best thing straight up the draft board & slot him in there, regardless if bpa or not. As someone who enjoys & does mock drafts I hate to see this happen, for one its misleading for another it leads to arguements like this.

a good mock draft should reflect the very best of College Football & translate into the buisness of the NFL, building successful franchises, generally you don't get there by over valueing assests :cool:

kastofsna
01-17-2008, 12:41 PM
edited.

TexansSeminole
01-17-2008, 12:50 PM
to compare him to & select him over Malcolm Jenkins is frankly a bit of homerism or something strange at work going on here. But since Malcolm is staying in school another year there is no need to argue the point any futher.

I just really haven't been impressed with Malcolm Jenkins. I see the athleticism and as you pointed out along with his tackling ability (which is probably my favorite aspect of his game) however he just doesn't seem to be a lockdown type of corner. His man coverage is pretty suspect. Overall I think it was a pretty good idea to stay in school, he still has alot to learn.

With Mike I see more experience and more of an ability to lock a man down in man coverage. He is always in the receivers face and tips alot of balls that create turnovers for his teamates.

It's more than just Mike though. Cason I feel is a better cover corner than Malcolm. I know that Malcolm would probably be the most athletic corner in this draft if he didn't decide to stay, I just think these other guys (Talib, Cason, Mike) are more polished.

my beef as stated in the opening is that these Mock drafts have certain teams slotted by need taking a cb & by god they're going to take a cb so they elevate who they think is the next best thing straight up the draft board & slot him in there, regardless if bpa or not. As someone who enjoys & does mock drafts I hate to see this happen, for one its misleading for another it leads to arguements like this.

I agree with this overall, however specifically I don't think Malcolm should have been ranked so high to begin with.

I should add that by this time next year Malcolm will probably be a better prospect than all of these guys.

beerlover
01-17-2008, 02:11 PM
cb preference aside (everyone has their top cb) does anyone remember what happened in 04?

the Texans selected ascending cb Dunta Robinson (who's career is questionable & contract expired/extended). one month before the draft was on nobody's 1st rd. projection (nobody meaning Todd McShays of the world internet mock draft sites). If anyone has the time & could a search from his 04 Mock draft that would be cool :cool: but I did find this gem in regards to what he thinks about the Texans http://blogs.chron.com/fanblogtexans/2007/05/texans_firstround_blues.html

threetoedpete
01-17-2008, 02:19 PM
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/archive/2004/mock.html

I found this. Intereting where he had Babins going.


Boy did we miss on the third round pick that year .

So how big was Tony Hollings again ?

beerlover
01-17-2008, 07:56 PM
just to add a footnote to our discussion the only cb I want the Texans to consider if they use the 18th pick on cb is Troy's Leodis McKelvin.you can catch him in this year's Senior Bowl. He is a dual threat not only has proven himself at the cornerback position -- where his speed and quickness are a great asset -- but also is one of the country's top punt and kickoff returners. He was named first-team All-America as a punt returner by The Sporting News. This has according to his DC, Jeremy Rowell, "He can play corner and do all the skills that requires and he's a great return guy, too. He's a real instinctive guy, a very savvy football player who understands the game. He's gotten a little better each year he's been here and this year he really took off. He has great speed, great closing ability and his athleticism is very high. He has all the things you look for, plus he knows how to apply them. His speed makes him valuable and he backs everything up with how he plays on the field."

McKelvin, a 5-foot-11, 185-pounder from Waycross, Ga., has earned All-Sun Belt Conference honors since his sophomore season, as a return specialist cover corner. In Troy's upset win over Oklahoma State at Movie Gallery Veterans Stadium he had seven solo tackles, forced a fumble, broke up three passes and had one tackle for a loss on defense. Thats what I mean about tackling, something we've come to take for granted with Dunta Robinsons game & also something we are gonna miss unless we find a similar talent, the fact that he can also return punts could be a bonus taking the load off Jacoby so he can focus on becoming a more complete WR. :twocents:

beerlover
01-17-2008, 08:30 PM
can't seem to find Todd McShay's 2004 Mock draft (how long has he been doing this?) anyway here is a pretty good example just before the draft- http://www.draftking.com/nfl/2004/mockdraft.shtml

Texans select DE Will Smith #10

Dunta Robinson #24 to Bengals

PHAROAH
01-17-2008, 10:35 PM
Running Back and Corner Back are our biggest needs and this is a weak class at the corner spot and Aqib Talib is a cover 2 guy he isn't good in man coverage so that will leave running back in round 1. I think we need to go with the corner position in Free Agency and fill the running back position in the draft and I think we need to draft 2 good runners this year and get rid of ahman green and Ron Dayne.:fans:

The Pencil Neck
01-17-2008, 10:36 PM
can't seem to find Todd McShay's 2004 Mock draft (how long has he been doing this?) anyway here is a pretty good example just before the draft- http://www.draftking.com/nfl/2004/mockdraft.shtml

Texans select DE Will Smith #10

Dunta Robinson #24 to Bengals

Look up 2 messages and you'll see the McShay draft. He had Texans going #10 with Dunta. And then picking Jason Babin in the 2nd.

bigbrewster2000
01-18-2008, 08:59 AM
Look up 2 messages and you'll see the McShay draft. He had Texans going #10 with Dunta. And then picking Jason Babin in the 2nd.

That is not the McShay draft

TexansSeminole
01-18-2008, 11:58 AM
Running Back and Corner Back are our biggest needs and this is a weak class at the corner spot and Aqib Talib is a cover 2 guy he isn't good in man coverage so that will leave running back in round 1. I think we need to go with the corner position in Free Agency and fill the running back position in the draft and I think we need to draft 2 good runners this year and get rid of ahman green and Ron Dayne.:fans:

I wouldn't say that this is a weak cornerback class. I think it is actually pretty strong. However, we can't expect to take a guy in the 5th round and have a immediate contributor.

beerlover
01-18-2008, 12:02 PM
I wouldn't say that this is a weak cornerback class. I think it is actually pretty strong. However, we can't expect to take a guy in the 5th round and have a immediate contributor.

yeah its gotta be @ least a late 4th right? see bennett #123

TexansSeminole
01-18-2008, 12:06 PM
yeah its gotta be @ least a late 4th right? see bennett #123

I think that's right. Especially looking at these guys. I don't see many of these good corners lasting past the 4th round. You've got a pretty good dropoff after about 10-12 corners. In 2005 there were 20 corners picked before our #18 in the 4th this year.

I think you will see something like 7 corners taken in the first 2 rounds this year.

The1ApplePie
01-18-2008, 12:08 PM
McShay reminds me of a frat boy that got in a fight with my girlfriend. She kicked his ass:whip:

beerlover
01-18-2008, 12:32 PM
according to ourlads scouting services "since 2005, 47% of corners on NFL two-deeps where drafted in either the first of second round." what this suggests is yes, NFL teams do draft almost 50% of the starting cb's in the first couple rounds, but how about the other 50%? their figures they compliled support that at least 14% of those come via undrafted free agents. that a study done in 2006 supported similar results & 2007, weeks 10-12 they sampled all 32 teams two-deep cbs "ten of the fourteen positions have undrafted free agents either as their #1 or #2 source for two-deep talent".

kastofsna
01-18-2008, 12:49 PM
there's quite a few more players that are either not drafted or drafted after the first two rounds, than players who are drafted in the first two rounds.

The Pencil Neck
01-18-2008, 01:01 PM
That is not the McShay draft

My bad.