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michaelm
01-14-2008, 01:51 PM
I have a lot of time on my hands while I'm recovering from having my tonsils out (and other assorted sinus/throat work), and am finally to a stage where I can make some posts.
I thought I'd share a few thoughts and get some feedback.

Point 1:
I think there is very little chance that Michael Turner will be a Texan next year. I just can't see Smith and Kubiak justifying the expenditure that it would likely take to get him here, and there are some other options out there that make more sense.
One guy who I think fits the bill, but is getting next to no run around here is Derrick Ward (Giants). I think Ward would be a decent improvement over anything we currently have, and he's a young guy which fits what Kubiak has said he wants. Ward did have a few injury issues this year, but nothing that seems to indicate he is an injury risk, IMO.
He has good size/speed, and seems to be ideal for a zone scheme with his north/south running style. I think he could be had for a reasonable price. That wasn't the case during most of the season, when Ward increased his value quite a bit filling in for an injured Brandon Jacobs.
Since being IRd with a fractured fibula, I think his value has dropped, mainly due to the surprising play of Giants rookie RB Ahmad Bradshaw. If you watched the Giants/Dallas game, you get the sense that Bradshaw will see increased playing time this year, and will probably be the Giants RB2 next year, making Ward expendable. Keep an eye on this, because IMO, Ward can be signed for a reasonable price, and would immediately become our starter, allowing us to cut Green, and move Dayne into his more comfortable role as back up.
I know this isn't the sexy FA home run a lot of people are hoping for, but I think it makes sense.
While we're talking RBs, lets go ahead and mention Julius Jones. I think Jones may actually be a dark horse here, but it's hard for me to justify that opinion, because it flies in the face of the explanation above. His price may well outweigh his value. Also, I think he became a little LESS expendable to the cowboys after yesterday's loss to the Giants. It was apparent to me that Marion Barber became less effective as the game wore on, and I think that was a direct result of his increased playing time. I think the cowboys may conclude that Jones has more value than they previously thought, and may want to keep him around because they have a very effective RBBC with those two running backs.

Point 2:
I would not be surprised to see Chester Pitts moved back to LT next year. I think when Gibbs comes in, he will see that Pitts is the best fit from our current roster. I don't expect us to be able to make a major move at LT in free agency, and our roster seems to be heavy with young guys who project to guard. It makes sense to me to move Pitts back outside, where he will be an instant improvement over Salaam.
I think if we make this move, we will be able to fill Pitts' spot at guard from our current roster. We know Pitts can be a decent LT, so instead of making a desperation move at an overpriced FA, lets move him back out there, promote one of our young guys into LG, and then we can groom a LT that we draft, or maybe a young FA signing if we're lucky.

I'm running out of steam now, so that will be it for now. Please pardon me if this post is rambling in any way. I don't like the way hydrocodone makes me feel, but I like pain less..!

badboy
01-14-2008, 02:06 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6802/careerI am not interested in Julius Jones type stats. In free agency, the team almost always over pays and for that you want a solid player. I focused on Jones the last 5-6 games and saw nothing that said WOW.

Round 1 CB Round 3 LT Round 4 RB fill three biggest holes with out FA. I think a move will be made on corner back in FA. Briesel replaces Weary. Salaam trains new guy and the new center FA brought to practice squad last of season many think have shot at beating out McKinney. I think Flannagan will be gone.

infantrycak
01-14-2008, 02:21 PM
Derrick Ward is a RFA. Unless they low tender him (7th round pick compensation), I don't see the Texans moving on him.

michaelm
01-14-2008, 02:29 PM
Derrick Ward is a RFA. Unless they low tender him (7th round pick compensation), I don't see the Texans moving on him.

Could be why he isn't getting mentioned more..? I'm going from Chron FanBlog which shows him as UFA...
http://blogs.chron.com/fanblogtexans/2008/01/2008_nfl_free_agents_bring_you.html

I may need a better source, huh?

infantrycak
01-14-2008, 02:38 PM
Could be why he isn't getting mentioned more..? I'm going from Chron FanBlog which shows him as UFA...
http://blogs.chron.com/fanblogtexans/2008/01/2008_nfl_free_agents_bring_you.html

I may need a better source, huh?

Rotoworld (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=Nfl&id=2925) and Football's Future (http://www.footballsfuture.com/2008/nfl/freeagentsRB.html) both have him as RFA. He doesn't have four accrued seasons so that seems right.

Specnatz
01-14-2008, 02:42 PM
Derrick Ward is a RFA. Unless they low tender him (7th round pick compensation), I don't see the Texans moving on him.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL+Zone/Team+Reports/default.htm?mode=nfceast

According to profootballweekly.com he is UFA

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2008/nfl/freeagentsRB.html

footballfutures has him as a RFA so I am not sure which it is.

michaelm
01-14-2008, 02:44 PM
Could be why he isn't getting mentioned more..? I'm going from Chron FanBlog which shows him as UFA...
http://blogs.chron.com/fanblogtexans/2008/01/2008_nfl_free_agents_bring_you.html

I may need a better source, huh?

huh... KFFL has him listed as UFA too...
http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=RB&y=2008

I've seen several sites that have him differently, what's the best source for info on FAs?

michaelm
01-14-2008, 02:46 PM
Rotoworld (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=Nfl&id=2925) and Football's Future (http://www.footballsfuture.com/2008/nfl/freeagentsRB.html) both have him as RFA. He doesn't have four accrued seasons so that seems right.

Seems reasonable. Shoots down my plan, no??? I still like the guy and wouldn't mind seeing him here...

Specnatz
01-14-2008, 03:54 PM
Seems reasonable. Shoots down my plan, no??? I still like the guy and wouldn't mind seeing him here...

Not neccessarily, they might not offer him because of the other players on the roster and wanting to use that roster spot for depth at another position. Besides do you think even if they do tender him a minimal contract and it is a 7th rounder would you do that, meaning do you think he would be worth a 7th rounder?

Hervoyel
01-14-2008, 04:25 PM
Point 2:
I would not be surprised to see Chester Pitts moved back to LT next year. I think when Gibbs comes in, he will see that Pitts is the best fit from our current roster. I don't expect us to be able to make a major move at LT in free agency, and our roster seems to be heavy with young guys who project to guard. It makes sense to me to move Pitts back outside, where he will be an instant improvement over Salaam.
I think if we make this move, we will be able to fill Pitts' spot at guard from our current roster. We know Pitts can be a decent LT, so instead of making a desperation move at an overpriced FA, lets move him back out there, promote one of our young guys into LG, and then we can groom a LT that we draft, or maybe a young FA signing if we're lucky.


I'd like to talk about this second point of yours for a moment. I spent years repeating over and over again the mantra that Chester Pitts could be a Pro Bowl type LG. That's what the Houston Texans have said about him from the day he was drafted and that's what I truly believed. Chester said back then on more than one occaision that he wanted to stay at LT if it was up to him but that he would do what was best for the team. I remember that quote very clearly as I'm sure many of you do. His two seasons at LT only ever happened because of the ongoing Tony Boselli problem but by the time he wrapped up 2003 he was a very respectable LT. Not a great one but you could call him "good" without drawing too many laughs and stares. He improved a great deal from 2002 to 2003 and seemed to be getting better.

He's never played like that at LG and he's been there for quite some time now. I personally don't think he's going to make the transition to being the kind of LG the team expected him to be when they drafted him. He's definitely good enough to play in the NFL at LG and he has good games mixed in with the so-so games but he's ordinary. He's nothing special on the inside. The move did more harm to his game than good I think.

I just don't think his heart is much into the change. I don't think he's happy playing that spot on the line. He certainly doesn't play the way he did in 2003 anymore. He's never taken to the move to the inside the way I expected him to and now I believe that he's a career "just good enough" LT and a "very ordinary" LG.

Granted, as a LG he's had a lot of movement around him and it would have been nice if he had been able to line up next to McKinney all season long this year. Still, I just don't think that's it. I think it's in his head more than anything.

This makes me wonder if he's destined to play LT in the NFL and/or become one of those guys who can play G or LT at an "acceptable level" and is destined to backup other players because he doesn't play the position he's best suited to as well as the position he prefers BUT is not as good a "body-type" fit in.

Does anybody else here (besides michaelm and myself) wonder if Gibbs might give Pitts another look at LT?

I could even see him sending Chester down the depth chart or even packing because he doesn't fit what Gibbs wants to do.

Somehow I think this is going to be a pivotal year for Chester Pitts.

Vinny
01-14-2008, 04:45 PM
I'd like to talk about this second point of yours for a moment. I spent years repeating over and over again the mantra that Chester Pitts could be a Pro Bowl type LG. That's what the Houston Texans have said about him from the day he was drafted and that's what I truly believed. Chester said back then on more than one occaision that he wanted to stay at LT if it was up to him but that he would do what was best for the team. I remember that quote very clearly as I'm sure many of you do. His two seasons at LT only ever happened because of the ongoing Tony Boselli problem but by the time he wrapped up 2003 he was a very respectable LT. Not a great one but you could call him "good" without drawing too many laughs and stares. He improved a great deal from 2002 to 2003 and seemed to be getting better.

He's never played like that at LG and he's been there for quite some time now. I personally don't think he's going to make the transition to being the kind of LG the team expected him to be when they drafted him. He's definitely good enough to play in the NFL at LG and he has good games mixed in with the so-so games but he's ordinary. He's nothing special on the inside. The move did more harm to his game than good I think.

I just don't think his heart is much into the change. I don't think he's happy playing that spot on the line. He certainly doesn't play the way he did in 2003 anymore. He's never taken to the move to the inside the way I expected him to and now I believe that he's a career "just good enough" LT and a "very ordinary" LG.

Granted, as a LG he's had a lot of movement around him and it would have been nice if he had been able to line up next to McKinney all season long this year. Still, I just don't think that's it. I think it's in his head more than anything.

This makes me wonder if he's destined to play LT in the NFL and/or become one of those guys who can play G or LT at an "acceptable level" and is destined to backup other players because he doesn't play the position he's best suited to as well as the position he prefers BUT is not as good a "body-type" fit in.

Does anybody else here (besides michaelm and myself) wonder if Gibbs might give Pitts another look at LT?

I could even see him sending Chester down the depth chart or even packing because he doesn't fit what Gibbs wants to do.

Somehow I think this is going to be a pivotal year for Chester Pitts.I think this will be a pivotal year for him as well. Pitts seemed to play better at Tackle than he has a Guard. I could see him improving on the edge but when I watch him play at Guard he seems more unsure and seems to have lapses. Strangely, things happen faster at the Guard spot when it comes to hand fighting and Pitts strength is not his hands...it's his lower body. He has great feet, but Kubiak's Guards need great feet in a zone system and having great Guards may be more important to a ZBS than having great Tackles....Pitts has just has never taken that next step (playing at a high level consistently). I think next season will be an important one for Chester as well.

Lucky
01-14-2008, 04:48 PM
Does anybody else here (besides michaelm and myself) wonder if Gibbs might give Pitts another look at LT?
I think Gibbs is here mainly to tutor Benton, the line coach. I don't see Gibbs involved in any long term personnel decisions, since he'll probably go back into retirement in a couple of years.

Right or wrong, I think Kubiak is satisfied in Salaam at LT for the short term, and will look for his eventual replacement at some point in the draft. Besides, the Texans already have to find a replacement for Weary (who is both injured and a free agent). I don't think Kubiak will want to find replacements at both starting guard spots.

drewmar74
01-14-2008, 04:51 PM
I think this will be a pivotal year for him as well. Pitts seemed to play better at Tackle than he has a Guard. I could see him improving on the edge but when I watch him play at Guard he seems more unsure and seems to have lapses. Strangely, things happen faster at the Guard spot when it comes to hand fighting and Pitts strength is not his hands...it's his lower body. He has great feet, but Kubiak's Guards need great feet in a zone system and having great Guards may be more important to a ZBS than having great Tackles....Pitts has just has never taken that next step (playing at a high level consistently). I think next season will be an important one for Chester as well.

If Winston has been solid at RT and has really grown as a player, why not move Pitts to LT, then trade Schaub for a left-handed passer. Suddenly Winston is protecting the blind-side and we don't have to look for a franchise LT in the draft!

BRILLIANT! :shades:



*yes, that post was made in jest

Hervoyel
01-14-2008, 04:56 PM
If Winston has been solid at RT and has really grown as a player, why not move Pitts to LT, then trade Schaub for a left-handed passer. Suddenly Winston is protecting the blind-side and we don't have to look for a franchise LT in the draft!

BRILLIANT! :shades:



*yes, that post was made in jest

Thinking outside the (tackle) box always keeps em' guessing.

Vinny
01-14-2008, 04:56 PM
If Winston has been solid at RT and has really grown as a player, why not move Pitts to LT, then trade Schaub for a left-handed passer. Suddenly Winston is protecting the blind-side and we don't have to look for a franchise LT in the draft!

BRILLIANT! :shades:



*yes, that post was made in jestI think if they would have left Chester at LT he would have been "good enough" (Chester was a poor mans Brad Hopkins - outstanding LT that wasn't physically ideal) until we found that elusive "franchise LT"...but what's done is done. We need a Center with a mean streak (kinda like Technoviking, er I mean Logan Mankins). I think our line play is way too passive at times....we could use a fiery personality in the middle mixing it up and getting after defensive front 7's across the league.

Vinny
01-14-2008, 05:02 PM
One in the same?

http://www.nflplayers.com/images/players/37425.jpg Logan Mankins
http://www.dreesemonkey.com/wp-content/uploads/technoviking.jpg TechnoViking

Hervoyel
01-14-2008, 05:06 PM
Long lost brothers?

Maybe Techno' came over and got a box of "Just For Men" so he wouldn't attract too much attention.

They're on the same wavelength though. You can see it in their eyes. They're like a couple of wild spidermonkeys ready to come at you without mercy!

drewmar74
01-14-2008, 05:22 PM
Long lost brothers?

Maybe Techno' came over and got a box of "Just For Men" so he wouldn't attract too much attention.

They're on the same wavelength though. You can see it in their eyes. They're like a couple of wild spidermonkeys ready to come at you without mercy!

Mankins' hair in that particular picture looks like the spray on hair that popped up about 10 years ago.

How's about we scan the Texas penal system for our next center, make a deal with the Cards for Matt Leinart, and leave Winston at RT?

Championship!

Dallas_Texan
01-14-2008, 05:24 PM
Back to the 1st point.....I think you're wrong about Julius Jones. I'm here in Dallas, and I think the fans and the personnel are ready to see Tyson Thompson step up. Barber and Thomson are both RFA's, and aren't going anywhere. Julius Jones is good, but he's gone. They have no interest in him here anymore. I think they will use the Barber/Thompson combo here now that TT has had a few years to learn behind Jones/Barber. They just didn't want to experiment during the good season they were having. Why not let Jones take the abuse before he leaves?

This being said, I think Jones could be gotten cheap...but I don't want him really. He's a used up DDW!

michaelm
01-14-2008, 05:42 PM
Barber and Thomson are both RFA's, and aren't going anywhere. Julius Jones is good, but he's gone. They have no interest in him here anymore. I think they will use the Barber/Thompson combo here now that TT has had a few years to learn behind Jones/Barber.


I can agree with everything you said, but I think the cowboys' level of interest in Jones may have shifted a little yesterday. It was obvious to me that Barber had lost his pop toward the end of the game, and pop IS his game.
You're local, and you know more about Thompson than I do, so if you say that the team thinks he's ready, I can't really question that. But IMO, they should be a little more aware of their feelings toward their RB situation now than they were when the game started yesterday.
If Barber's style of play has him running out of gas before the end of the game, they need to address it.

OTH, I haven't seen one person specifically agree with my assessment of Barber's game yesterday, so I could be completely wrong on that... he looked less effective toward the end of the game to me... but hey, I've been doped up on prescription pain killers for a week, and haven't eaten in pretty much the whole time... I just might be experiencing some issues with my judgment...

Ole Miss Texan
01-14-2008, 06:31 PM
This possibility of Pitts moving to LT really changes the offseason. If they decide to do this we'll have Pitts and Salaam as our LT's with us probably looking at another LT in lower rounds to groom. Winston has locked down the RT spot so that leaves all 3 interior spots. There seems to be some pretty decent Guards in free agency this offseason, so I wonder if they would look for immediate impact there? I'm just not so sure we overpay for an OL though.

michaelm
01-14-2008, 06:49 PM
I think this will be a pivotal year for him as well. Pitts seemed to play better at Tackle than he has a Guard. I could see him improving on the edge but when I watch him play at Guard he seems more unsure and seems to have lapses. Strangely, things happen faster at the Guard spot when it comes to hand fighting and Pitts strength is not his hands...it's his lower body. He has great feet, but Kubiak's Guards need great feet in a zone system and having great Guards may be more important to a ZBS than having great Tackles....Pitts has just has never taken that next step (playing at a high level consistently). I think next season will be an important one for Chester as well.

What do you think it would do for Pitts frame of mind if none other than Alex Gibbs comes in and recommends him as LT? I think it might motivate the young man, and possibly put a little "I told you so..." in his game.

CloakNNNdagger
01-14-2008, 08:31 PM
What do you think it would do for Pitts frame of mind if none other than Alex Gibbs comes in and recommends him as LT? I think it might motivate the young man, and possibly put a little "I told you so..." in his game.

Then we'd have one of those on both sides of the our lines......

Hervoyel
01-14-2008, 08:46 PM
Physically can he be what the (presumably) Denver Broncos-like Texans are going to be looking for there? The Broncos don't appear to have a tackle on their team over 305 pounds (very rudimentary search on my part, I probably missed somebody) and Chester is listed as 320. Does he have the mobility to do this? Can he lose the weight (if need be) or do it as he is?

I don't know.

Hardcore Texan
01-14-2008, 08:53 PM
One in the same?

http://www.nflplayers.com/images/players/37425.jpg Logan Mankins
http://www.dreesemonkey.com/wp-content/uploads/technoviking.jpg TechnoViking

Can someone please elaborate on Techno Viking......I guess I am out of touch. :)

Hardcore Texan
01-14-2008, 09:02 PM
Okay, now I really don't get it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1nzEFMjkI4 :thinking: idonno:

CloakNNNdagger
01-14-2008, 10:00 PM
Physically can he be what the (presumably) Denver Broncos-like Texans are going to be looking for there? The Broncos don't appear to have a tackle on their team over 305 pounds (very rudimentary search on my part, I probably missed somebody) and Chester is listed as 320. Does he have the mobility to do this? Can he lose the weight (if need be) or do it as he is?

I don't know.


When Gibbs first took over the Broncos around '84, he had a roster of relative midget OL somewhere in the 260 to 280 range. He had to develop some approach to counter the 300+ DLs. He needed that miracle neutralizer...........there was born the "cut block." And what a great neutralizer he discovered. Later, I'm sure he had the chance to go after larger OL. However, success is hard to argue with, and it seems he stuck to his new found "stealth weapon." The Broncs, I believe last year had one or two OL around 305, but most were under 300.

What's interesting to note is during his success at Atlanta, the fact that they still carried OL over 300 (I believe, a couple in the 320 range) didn't hold his game back at all.

The DLs have also gotten bigger. I don't believe for a minute that Pitts at 320 would be ruled out of a job.......furthermore, Herveyol, like yourself, I still wonder why Pitts was not given the years to develop into what could be much more than a "serviceable" LT. I believe that given the "Carr" treatment, he would not disappoint.

Errant Hothy
01-14-2008, 10:21 PM
I think that Butler is going to be the wild card at the T spot this offseason. The kid has all the talent and ability he needs to be succesful, and if his health is on order (and that should lead to his weight being in order) I think he might have a legit spot to sneak in to the starting line-up (if we do not draft a LT on Day 1).

Couple that with the arrival of Gibbs and I could see a "The U" reunion at the T spots for the Texans.

michaelm
01-14-2008, 10:41 PM
Physically can he be what the (presumably) Denver Broncos-like Texans are going to be looking for there? The Broncos don't appear to have a tackle on their team over 305 pounds (very rudimentary search on my part, I probably missed somebody) and Chester is listed as 320. Does he have the mobility to do this? Can he lose the weight (if need be) or do it as he is?

I don't know.

Every time I see or hear the description of a typical Broncos lineman, I immediately think of George Foster.
Foster is almost the exact opposite of what is typical of Denver's linemen, yet he played both tackle spots for several years.

Foster was a first round draft pick (#20 I think) in 2003.
I believe he weighed in around 325 when he played for the Broncos.
He was traded along with Tatum Bell and a draft pick for Dre Bly, proving again that Shanny loves cornerbacks...

I know the Broncos have a typical lineman type, but I guess there really are exceptions to every rule...

drewmar74
01-14-2008, 10:49 PM
I know the Broncos have a typical lineman type, but I guess there really are exceptions to every rule...

I'm thinking that the fact that most of Gibbs' line in Denver were smaller more because of the level of mobility that is required of them in the ZBS and less because he just likes small dudes on the o-line.

I mean, I would be willing to go out on a limb and say that if he could find a bunch of highly mobile, angry, 320-lb'ers that he'd take the first five he could get his hands on.

In short, mobility and being cranky is more important than mass in the Gibbs ZBS. Or am I wrong here?

michaelm
01-14-2008, 11:02 PM
I'm thinking that the fact that most of Gibbs' line in Denver were smaller more because of the level of mobility that is required of them in the ZBS and less because he just likes small dudes on the o-line.

I mean, I would be willing to go out on a limb and say that if he could find a bunch of highly mobile, angry, 320-lb'ers that he'd take the first five he could get his hands on.

In short, mobility and being cranky is more important than mass in the Gibbs ZBS. Or am I wrong here?

I think your thinking is pretty much in line with what Gibbs wants. Like you say, occasionally, you find a real big hoss who can fit the system.

Kaiser Toro
01-14-2008, 11:05 PM
Chester has two years left on his contract and on the heavy side for salary, lighter on remaining signing bonus. If I recall correctly when he re-signed in 2005 he was going back to G for 2006 and appears to have been compensated as such for the contract. I do not see us renegotiating his contract nor would I want a hold out situation next year, or in 2009, should he be moved to LT and his representation make a stink.

With our most glaring need, in my opinion, at Center I would be far more comfortable with stable Guards (Weary is a question mark) next year than to have possibly four different players playing new positions (Pitts LT, new RG new C, Weary does not make it back) as opposed to the previous year.

I would like to go with a C/LT through FA or Draft and keep Winston and Pitts where they are, however, the Carr effect has shown that we may have more than meets the eye on the line. Only our coaches really know the value of the big guys and what they can bring to the table at this moment.

76Texan
01-14-2008, 11:29 PM
When Gibbs first took over the Broncos around '84, he had a roster of relative midget OL somewhere in the 260 to 280 range. He had to develop some approach to counter the 300+ DLs. He needed that miracle neutralizer...........there was born the "cut block." And what a great neutralizer he discovered. Later, I'm sure he had the chance to go after larger OL. However, success is hard to argue with, and it seems he stuck to his new found "stealth weapon." The Broncs, I believe last year had one or two OL around 305, but most were under 300.

What's interesting to note is during his success at Atlanta, the fact that they still carried OL over 300 (I believe, a couple in the 320 range) didn't hold his game back at all.

The DLs have also gotten bigger. I don't believe for a minute that Pitts at 320 would be ruled out of a job.......furthermore, Herveyol, like yourself, I still wonder why Pitts was not given the years to develop into what could be much more than a "serviceable" LT. I believe that given the "Carr" treatment, he would not disappoint.
Guys are getting bigger and faster nowadays. I think we can probably add about 10% of body mass, so everything pretty much works out the same.

Many teams now mix in the ZBS besides us, the Broncos, the Falcons, and the Packers. Look at the Raiders, the Colts, the Bucs, the Pats, etc.
And the O-linemen range between 295-315. Plus some big guys in the 320+ range.

I think the more important thing is whether they can move sideways some. The whole idea is to create a moving wall so that the defenders find it harder to find a hole to shoot through. At other times, they may find themselves shooting through vacuum where they thought the hole is.
(When it's done right, that's the thing.)

The cut block, I think, was born out of necessity.
Most or part of the O-line is moving one way. You're the last one in that continuum. A defender tries to get around you to chase the play from behind. (That guy can be bigger or faster than you.) Best thing to seal the backside is to throw yourself around his knees. All you need is maybe another 1/2 sec for the RB to find the hole.

Again, those are just my observations. And I'm learning the game continuously, as I truly enjoy it. (C&D and Herv, I really don't mean anything besides discussing football.)

michaelm
01-14-2008, 11:42 PM
With our most glaring need, in my opinion, at Center I would be far more comfortable with stable Guards (Weary is a question mark) next year than to have possibly four different players playing new positions (Pitts LT, new RG new C, Weary does not make it back) as opposed to the previous year.


Good points, all.
I hadn't really stopped to think about the shakeup that is already possible along the line, and the fact that swapping players at other positions borders on complete overhaul, which isn't needed at all.
If I were to have one wish granted on our OL, I think I would ask for a dominant, mean and nasty center. I want a center who has such a mean/nasty side that he is a star with the general/casual fanbase.
If your starting center is a star on your team, there's a good chance that things are going well on your line...

drewmar74
01-14-2008, 11:46 PM
If I were to have one wish granted on our OL, I think I would ask for a dominant, mean and nasty center. I want a center who has such a mean/nasty side that he is a star with the general/casual fanbase.


I agree about that "mean and nasty" part. I remember the Saints game where someone got after Aaron Brooks and Kyle Turley ripped the dude's lid off and threw it. No one was going to mess with his QB (even if it was Aaron Brooks)!

Okay, so maybe "mean and nasty" with a touch of control to keep the 15 yard penalties down, but I think you can see where I'm going here.

b0ng
01-15-2008, 03:58 AM
With our most glaring need, in my opinion, at Center I would be far more comfortable with stable Guards (Weary is a question mark) next year than to have possibly four different players playing new positions (Pitts LT, new RG new C, Weary does not make it back) as opposed to the previous year.

I would like to go with a C/LT through FA or Draft and keep Winston and Pitts where they are, however, the Carr effect has shown that we may have more than meets the eye on the line. Only our coaches really know the value of the big guys and what they can bring to the table at this moment.

My guess, is they are going to take fringe players like Greg Eslinger (http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/profile.php?pyid=10228) and Chukky Okobi (http://www.nfl.com/players/chukkyokobi/profile?id=OKO055371), and make McKinney and Hogdon compete with em. I expect more fringe player signings for the offensive line this coming offseason.

Maddict5
01-15-2008, 05:52 AM
i agree with hothboy.. i think rashad is much more of a wildcard at LT than chester- if we use the ZB properly next yr (which we will) i think it'll suit chester more and they wont even consider moving him

dalemurphy
01-15-2008, 09:13 AM
I think Gibbs is here mainly to tutor Benton, the line coach. I don't see Gibbs involved in any long term personnel decisions, since he'll probably go back into retirement in a couple of years.


I think they welcome Gibbs' personnel involvement for however long they have him. Part of what makes Gibbs special is his ability to identify guys in late rounds that he can quickly make good players out of- both at RB and OL. I think they promised him a lot of say in those areas and were ecstatic to do so.

His personnel ability is similar to Parcells in this respect, I think: Neither are particularly good GMs or talent assessers. However, they both have an ability to identify players specifically that they can effectively coach into good players. If Gibbs wasn't coaching, I wouldn't want him involved in personnel decisions. With him coaching, I'd give him almost anything he wants.

dalemurphy
01-15-2008, 09:16 AM
i agree with hothboy.. i think rashad is much more of a wildcard at LT than chester- if we use the ZB properly next yr (which we will) i think it'll suit chester more and they wont even consider moving him

Eslinger, Butler, Spencer, Frye... my guess is we hit a homerun with at least one of these wildcards and one or two others become solid players as well. It's going to be very exciting watching the oline morph into something very different the next two years.

badboy
01-15-2008, 11:11 AM
Chester has two years left on his contract and on the heavy side for salary, lighter on remaining signing bonus. If I recall correctly when he re-signed in 2005 he was going back to G for 2006 and appears to have been compensated as such for the contract. I do not see us renegotiating his contract nor would I want a hold out situation next year, or in 2009, should he be moved to LT and his representation make a stink.

With our most glaring need, in my opinion, at Center I would be far more comfortable with stable Guards (Weary is a question mark) next year than to have possibly four different players playing new positions (Pitts LT, new RG new C, Weary does not make it back) as opposed to the previous year.

I would like to go with a C/LT through FA or Draft and keep Winston and Pitts where they are, however, the Carr effect has shown that we may have more than meets the eye on the line. Only our coaches really know the value of the big guys and what they can bring to the table at this moment.Move Chester to LT and if he squawks about his pay, threaten him with a taser.

PHAROAH
01-15-2008, 12:13 PM
I don't think that Left Tackle will be an issue since we picked up Rashad Butler who was a 3rd round pick by the Carolina Panthers, Rashad was very good at the Univ. of Miami with his buddy Eric Winston. I think if Rashard is healthy along with charles spencer who will have to get his weight down to play left tackle we will be fine with gibbs coaching.:fans:

PHAROAH
01-15-2008, 01:12 PM
The biggest need will be at the CB position and then RB. I think we will have to address the CB in F/A and the draft. I think if we are able to trade back in rd. 1 I think that might be our best move if not then take the best available running back available at that spot hopefully Rashard mendenhall or Johnathon Stewart.

Free Agent Signings that I would like to see in order.

Corners:
1. Marcus Trufant - CB
1A. Drayton Florence - CB


Safety:

1. Ken Hamlin
2. Eugene Wilson
3. Gibril Wilson


OL:

1. Max Starks - Steelers - OT
2. Ryan Lilja, UFA, Indianapolis Colts - OG
3. Jake Scott, UFA, Indianapolis Colts - OG

OLB:

1. Boss Bailey, UFA, Detroit Lions
2. Demorrio Williams, UFA, Atlanta Falcons
3. Danny Clark UFA Houston Texans

RB:

1. NFL Draft.

Goldensilence
01-15-2008, 03:16 PM
I think Trufant Upped his tag the way he played against Washington but he's the guy I'd target too with Florance right behind.

I thought Hamlin signed a multiple year with Dallas but i could be wrong.

I think we'd be welled served to resign Demps and let everyone else battle it out for the SS spot. Truth be told I'm still curious to see what Brandon Harrison can do.

I wouldn't count on us signing any of those people for OL. Indy has a good recent history of managing to keep those guys signed. It wouldn't suprise me at all to see either Starks or Faneca in AZ coming this year. I'm still not counting on a healthy Charles Spencer at the start of the season as well.We looked a lot better on the line this year though. But I do Agree with Herv on getting a Bonafide C wether that is Eslinger stepping up or taking one in the draft.

I wouldn't minda guy like Na'il Diggs whom i think is a UFA this year again signed away from Carolina. Wouldn't mind the LBs you mentioned signed an I'm wondering if Dansby is going to get tagged. I think a run at Briggs and Suggs would be killer as well.

I'm on the fence about RB at this point. I'd prefer one of two things come draft day and first round LT or CB. There might be some more reasonable RB FA options. If we're keeping Dayne start him from day one. He's not achange of pace back ora guy you bring i nsecnd string. He's always been a let him get his carries and when the third and fourth quarter start coming about people get tired of the OL leaning on you and tackling him.

The way Walker played the later part of the year and we'll see about Taylor being healthy. If so we might have a decent 3 back commitee next year with Walker and Taylor battling out who emerges as a down the line starter.

PHAROAH
01-15-2008, 03:55 PM
I think Trufant Upped his tag the way he played against Washington but he's the guy I'd target too with Florance right behind.

I thought Hamlin signed a multiple year with Dallas but i could be wrong.

I think we'd be welled served to resign Demps and let everyone else battle it out for the SS spot. Truth be told I'm still curious to see what Brandon Harrison can do.

I wouldn't count on us signing any of those people for OL. Indy has a good recent history of managing to keep those guys signed. It wouldn't suprise me at all to see either Starks or Faneca in AZ coming this year. I'm still not counting on a healthy Charles Spencer at the start of the season as well.We looked a lot better on the line this year though. But I do Agree with Herv on getting a Bonafide C wether that is Eslinger stepping up or taking one in the draft.

I wouldn't minda guy like Na'il Diggs whom i think is a UFA this year again signed away from Carolina. Wouldn't mind the LBs you mentioned signed an I'm wondering if Dansby is going to get tagged. I think a run at Briggs and Suggs would be killer as well.

I'm on the fence about RB at this point. I'd prefer one of two things come draft day and first round LT or CB. There might be some more reasonable RB FA options. If we're keeping Dayne start him from day one. He's not achange of pace back ora guy you bring i nsecnd string. He's always been a let him get his carries and when the third and fourth quarter start coming about people get tired of the OL leaning on you and tackling him.

The way Walker played the later part of the year and we'll see about Taylor being healthy. If so we might have a decent 3 back commitee next year with Walker and Taylor battling out who emerges as a down the line starter.I disagree big time about the running backs that we have they are all 2nd & 3rd rate runners Ron dayne & Ahman Green cost us a few games because we couldn't sustain a decent running game. Ahman Green has been injured the past 3 years and we gave him big money because we were desparate for a running back and Ron Dayne has been nothing but a huge disappointment since he came into the League and I think that Running Back is our 2nd biggest need behind Corner Back.:whip:

Mr PC
01-15-2008, 04:04 PM
I don't think that Left Tackle will be an issue since we picked up Rashad Butler who was a 3rd round pick by the Carolina Panthers, Rashad was very good at the Univ. of Miami with his buddy Eric Winston. I think if Rashard is healthy along with charles spencer who will have to get his weight down to play left tackle we will be fine with gibbs coaching.:fans:

Butler is our backup right tackle and nothing more. He certainly isnt the answer at LT. Betting on Spencer to come back in good enough condition to hold down the LT spot is also a big long shot. Spencer had 3 games in the NFL before suffering a career threatening injury that sidelined him for almost 2 years. I think its funny that you are satisfied with our depth at OT but worried about Green, Dayne, Walker, Taylor, Leach as our backs.

badboy
01-15-2008, 05:03 PM
I disagree big time about the running backs that we have they are all 2nd & 3rd rate runners Ron dayne & Ahman Green cost us a few games because we couldn't sustain a decent running game. Ahman Green has been injured the past 3 years and we gave him big money because we were desparate for a running back and Ron Dayne has been nothing but a huge disappointment since he came into the League and I think that Running Back is our 2nd biggest need behind Corner Back.:whip:A little more accurate info for you on Green.2005 & 2007 he had 5 & 6 games. Every other year from1998 fewest games was 14. Other than those two years, from 2000 he rushed for over 1,000 yards. Remember the flack Mario received his injured year and then what he did this one. Could Green have another 1,000 next season in a totally ZBS offense?
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GreeAh00.htm?redir

Goldensilence
01-15-2008, 05:10 PM
I disagree big time about the running backs that we have they are all 2nd & 3rd rate runners Ron dayne & Ahman Green cost us a few games because we couldn't sustain a decent running game. Ahman Green has been injured the past 3 years and we gave him big money because we were desparate for a running back and Ron Dayne has been nothing but a huge disappointment since he came into the League and I think that Running Back is our 2nd biggest need behind Corner Back.:whip:

Ahman wasn't on the field half the time and that alone was a big blow. That was also voiced as a large concern here his ability to stay on the field.Although he hasn't been as injured much as you suggested prior to this year he was still a productive back before and ater the knee injury limited him. The first few games he was effective enough as a starter the problem that really arose is Dayne never has been a guy you plug and play sparingly. He needs to get carries and establish himself. That IMO lead to the sputtering running game past Ahman. I'd also toss some of that to the mixed schemes we kept running and think we won't nearly have that problem with Kubiak and Gibbs on the same page.

I think we're better served upgrading the Oline or Dbacks(as you suggest). Unless you get a guy like McFadden I don't think you're often well served taking back in the first. Just want to point out the last two guys to post 2000 yard seasons weren't big time burners(Terrell Davis and Jamal Lewis)

Brandon420tx
01-15-2008, 05:24 PM
I'd think Meddenhall fits the bill of punisher more then Ron Dayne. I still like the idea of using Dayne in the 4th quarter when you definately don't want fumbles and the opposing defense is tired, but early in the season he was very very inneffective early in the game, and I think someone like Meddenhall could where out the other team faster then Dayne.

PHAROAH
01-15-2008, 05:26 PM
Ahman wasn't on the field half the time and that alone was a big blow. That was also voiced as a large concern here his ability to stay on the field.Although he hasn't been as injured much as you suggested prior to this year he was still a productive back before and ater the knee injury limited him. The first few games he was effective enough as a starter the problem that really arose is Dayne never has been a guy you plug and play sparingly. He needs to get carries and establish himself. That IMO lead to the sputtering running game past Ahman. I'd also toss some of that to the mixed schemes we kept running and think we won't nearly have that problem with Kubiak and Gibbs on the same page.

I think we're better served upgrading the Oline or Dbacks(as you suggest). Unless you get a guy like McFadden I don't think you're often well served taking back in the first. Just want to point out the last two guys to post 2000 yard seasons weren't big time burners(Terrell Davis and Jamal Lewis)SO we go into next year with a huge hole at running back and we just give up on spencer at OLT as well? I think we need to Address OLT,OLB & CB in free agency and fill other needs in the draft such as runnning back, CB, Safety and another pass rusher.:fans:

Goldensilence
01-15-2008, 05:37 PM
SO we go into next year with a huge hole at running back and we just give up on spencer at OLT as well? I think we need to Address OLT,OLB & CB in free agency and fill other needs in the draft such as runnning back, CB, Safety and another pass rusher.:fans:

I Don't think we go into next year with a hole at RB. It actually could get intersting. Not Saying Walker is a sure fire guy but at the same time he didn't look nearly as bad as Ech or Samkon or the other RBBC guys we threw out there. Just think IF, Big IF, we do resign Dayne. Start him and throw in Green instead of the otherway around. I think we'd finda more productive combination that way.

For what it'll be worth Chris Taylor should be back at the start of TC as well. If we do go RB While some of those guys like Mendenhall, Stewart and co would be great. I just think a Guy like Patrick out of OU would be got fora 3rd or fourth.

Do agree we need to make a move on a CB and maybe make a run at Briggs for OLB. Still think a good LT in the first would do wonders for the backbone of this offense and it would be nice if a guy like Eslinger could emerge as a good C candidate.AS for Spencer....I hope he does make it back but all signs are at least pointing that it will be one hell of a mountain to climb.

CloakNNNdagger
01-15-2008, 05:52 PM
Getting the OL straightened out first will give us a better chance of our RBs coming out of a season without injuries.

PHAROAH
01-15-2008, 05:54 PM
I Don't think we go into next year with a hole at RB. It actually could get intersting. Not Saying Walker is a sure fire guy but at the same time he didn't look nearly as bad as Ech or Samkon or the other RBBC guys we threw out there. Just think IF, Big IF, we do resign Dayne. Start him and throw in Green instead of the otherway around. I think we'd finda more productive combination that way.

For what it'll be worth Chris Taylor should be back at the start of TC as well. If we do go RB While some of those guys like Mendenhall, Stewart and co would be great. I just think a Guy like Patrick out of OU would be got fora 3rd or fourth.

Do agree we need to make a move on a CB and maybe make a run at Briggs for OLB. Still think a good LT in the first would do wonders for the backbone of this offense and it would be nice if a guy like Eslinger could emerge as a good C candidate.AS for Spencer....I hope he does make it back but all signs are at least pointing that it will be one hell of a mountain to climb.Ok fine if we go with LT in the draft if we trade back and pick up a 2nd round pick and get a running back I would love that with Jamaal Charles, Steve Slaton & felix Jones possibly falling into the 2nd round I would be happy with that. You still have to be crazy to go into next season with those set of backs your out of your freakin mind dude that's all I have to say because all the reports coming out of the front office is that RUNNING BACK is one of our biggest NEEDS. Ahman Green is not reliable at all IMO and Ron Dayne isn't a Lead back he has proven that over and over in Denver & New York!!!! Improvements must be made no matter how people want to cut it's one of our biggest needs.:specnatz: :bat: :bat: :bat:

TexansSeminole
01-15-2008, 06:20 PM
Ok fine if we go with LT in the draft if we trade back and pick up a 2nd round pick and get a running back I would love that with Jamaal Charles, Steve Slaton & felix Jones possibly falling into the 2nd round I would be happy with that. You still have to be crazy to go into next season with those set of backs your out of your freakin mind dude that's all I have to say because all the reports coming out of the front office is that RUNNING BACK is one of our biggest NEEDS. Ahman Green is not reliable at all IMO and Ron Dayne isn't a Lead back he has proven that over and over in Denver & New York!!!! Improvements must be made no matter how people want to cut it's one of our biggest needs.:specnatz: :bat: :bat: :bat:

Trading back is so hard to do. I say we eat our 2nd round loss this year, and focus on keeping other picks. It is doubtful we will be able to trade down from the 18 spot.

As infantrycak pointed out in another thread (http://texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46090), there should be somewhere around 7 running backs taken before our 3rd round selection, going by history. I see alot of running backs out there in this draft that could help us, and with our 3rd round pick we should be able to get a contributor. I don't think you'll see us grab a runningback in the first round unless there is a real special guy there at 18.

I'm thinking guys like Tashard Choice, James Davis, or Allen Patrick could be available with our 3rd round pick (#82 overall, well #81 since Patriots must forfeit theirs). Maybe even a Kevin Smith or Ray Rice. Doubtful, but there are just so many, one is bound to fall.

PHAROAH
01-15-2008, 06:32 PM
Trading back is so hard to do. I say we eat our 2nd round loss this year, and focus on keeping other picks. It is doubtful we will be able to trade down from the 18 spot.

As infantrycak pointed out in another thread (http://texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46090), there should be somewhere around 7 running backs taken before our 3rd round selection, going by history. I see alot of running backs out there in this draft that could help us, and with our 3rd round pick we should be able to get a contributor. I don't think you'll see us grab a runningback in the first round unless there is a real special guy there at 18.

I'm thinking guys like Tashard Choice, James Davis, or Allen Patrick could be available with our 3rd round pick (#82 overall, well #81 since Patriots must forfeit theirs). Maybe even a Kevin Smith or Ray Rice. Doubtful, but there are just so many, one is bound to fall.Let me ask you a question would you want Tashard Choice, Kevin Smith or Allen patrick starting for the texans next season? I don't I could deal with James Davis maybe but he is a little over-rated due to the fact he has always split time at clemson with other good backs.:fans:

TexansSeminole
01-15-2008, 06:40 PM
Let me ask you a question would you want Tashard Choice, Kevin Smith or Allen patrick starting for the texans next season? I don't I could deal with James Davis maybe but he is a little over-rated due to the fact he has always split time at clemson with other good backs.:fans:

Over Dayne, Walker, Taylor, and a depleted Ahman Green, yes. We always have free agency to grab another backup running back to help carry the load. There's nothing wrong with any of these 3 runningbacks. Kevin Smith has proven to be able to carry the load despite playing at UCF, Tashard Choice is a bruiser who carried a team that lost Calvin Johnson and their QB. Choice was also good the years before that. Allen Patrick has been a productive guy and he has the experience. James Davis was damn good before Spiller even enrolled into Clemson. The only reason his numbers have gone down is because Spiller is such a talent, he needs his carries as well, and it benifits them both. The running backs available in round 3 aren't going to be your average 3rd round running backs.

dalemurphy
01-15-2008, 06:42 PM
Let me ask you a question would you want Tashard Choice, Kevin Smith or Allen patrick starting for the texans next season? I don't I could deal with James Davis maybe but he is a little over-rated due to the fact he has always split time at clemson with other good backs.:fans:

I would be comfortable going into the season with a 4th round pick at RB in a deep RB class, and with Chris Taylor, Walker, and Ahman Green... with Gibbs coaching the oline, YES.

Mr PC
01-15-2008, 10:42 PM
We can get help at RB without using our first draft pick. M. Turner, J. Jones, J. Fargas all free agents, and there will be backs like R. Rice available in the middle rounds. What we need most are defensive backs and a left tackle. The possibility of Spencer coming back next season and dominating at left tackle is no more likely Ahman Green coming back and rushing for over 1,000 yards. Not to mention Dayne and Walker made a decent tandem in the backfield and C. Taylor will be healthy. Think how much better our running game will be when we can run on the left side also instead of just the right.

hadaad
01-16-2008, 01:49 AM
Without having any knowledge of the depth at running back, I would assume that the "Insert running back, gain 100 yards" philosophy that Denver had in their heyday (the draft choice of Tatum Bell notwithstanding) would come into play here. If that is the case, I don't see us drafting a running back earlier than 3rd round (second if we had it or traded back there).

As for offensive line, I know that Gibbs and ZBS likes 'em light. It seems that would be the case because they want them more mobile but if Spencer is the ballerina that I was led to believe by the post-draft ravings, then maybe an exception can be made for him. If he can regain his athleticism.

What I want from this offseason is more depth. Yes, we have issues at cornerback. I think that if we could get Dunta Robinson back, he and Bennett could start and be solid. I think that Will Demps is fine as free safety and I've always believed that Glenn Earl is fine. So I would like some more depth there. Get in a third/fourth round draft pick. More depth along the o-line would be nice as well. I'm just going to assume that this area will be fine. That's why they brought in Gibbs. I'm not swallowing any kool-aid, I don't think. He's just that good.

I think our talent level is fine but we need to stay healthy. That's why I want more depth.

NitroGSXR
01-16-2008, 02:17 AM
I loosely skimmed through a lot of these posts so excuse my ignorance if it's already been mentioned.

I'm just not all that worried about the guard position as some of you guys are. I don't know I can't help but think that Alex Gibbs and Kasey Studdard... a match made in heaven. Studdard needs his shot soon and what better way to eck that shot into reality with Gibbs? I don't think that Studdard is a ZBS lineman but I don't really think it matters all that much. What Studdard has to offer appears to fall in line with what Gibbs demands.

I'm using flawed logic but it makes sense to me somehow. It just does!

1) Studdard's father was a very successful lineman in the NFL. Therefore Studdard won't have such a large learning curve since we've all heard about Gibbs' impatience for inexperience.

2) Studdard has played in the national spotlight and thrived doing so. He should be fine in the NFL. Especially after following his father's career.

3) Studdard has shown to have a nasty streak and a 'football happens' attitude. An Alex Gibbs requirement. He'll do whatever his coach wants him to do and if that means breaking legs... By that I mean cutblocking. Heck, I can see him taking his helmet off and placing his chompers on a defender's pinkie finger if that's what it takes to run a successful block.

4) Studdard is on the smallish side which should fit the need for a chop blocker.

I don't know. I don't know much about running or assembling a football team that's for sure but I really like the combined mix of Kasey Studdard and Alex Gibbs. I can see Weary (provided he heals up well) and Studdard being our starters next season. Sounds like a lock to me. I'm more inclined to worry about our centers and tackle(s).

I can see Eric Winston being moved around on the line under the discretion of Gibbs. I think he instantly becomes our best ZBS lineman before Gibbs' expertise establishes the rest of our line. Basically, this allows Gibbs flexibility to find his men while Winston, being already experienced in the ZBS scheme, eases off worry simply because of his ZBS training/experience alone.

I hope Pitts is as good as gone. He should be. He blows. His only glory to fame on the Houston Texans is that he's the only guy to have been in on every snap the Texans have ever taken. I think we're just keeping him on there to extend his streak rather than giving Studdard his shot.

Eh. What do I know anyway. Heh!

LonerATO
01-16-2008, 02:22 AM
I just dont see us signing a FA RB as I would rather use the money on a CB anf if we do then we need to spend two picks on CB's then. I could handle us picking up Meddenhall or Jones as new backs as I dont see Dayne staying much longer.

michaelm
01-16-2008, 04:20 AM
I just dont see us signing a FA RB as I would rather use the money on a CB anf if we do then we need to spend two picks on CB's then. I could handle us picking up Meddenhall or Jones as new backs as I dont see Dayne staying much longer.

Wow, I have the exact opposite opinion. Out of all our 'backs, I think Dayne is the only one who has a roster spot locked for next season. I don't think he's going anywhere, and all of the other guys will be fighting for their jobs.
Just to be clear, I think the roster spot that Dayne has a lock on is RB2, not the starting role.
No, Dayne will be here... hopefully he'll be RB3, and we'll have two better guys ahead of him, but he will be here...

beerlover
01-16-2008, 04:31 AM
Out of all our 'backs, I think Dayne is the only one who has a roster spot locked for next season. I don't think he's going anywhere, and all of the other guys will be fighting for their jobs.


Kubiak has publicly stated that they expect Ahman Green to be 100% next season & back with the club, thats the lock. Dayne is being evaluated by the staff & is a free agent. thats not excatly a lock, although it would not surprise me if they bring him back on the cheap.

michaelm
01-16-2008, 04:43 AM
Kubiak has publicly stated that they expect Ahman Green to be 100% next season & back with the club, thats the lock. Dayne is being evaluated by the staff & is a free agent. thats not excatly a lock, although it would not surprise me if they bring him back on the cheap.

Whatever has been said, I still feel like Dayne has a higher likelihood of being on the roster than Green.
Dayne is a Kubiak favorite, and can fill a role on the team as RB2. Green could fill that roll, but Kubiak is not going to count on Green to be 100%, despite what he says now.
I can see us going into the season with Green, Dayne and an acquired RB as our top three guys.
I can also see us going with Dayne, and two new guys as our top three.
What I can't see (unless Dayne just wants to leave), is us going into the season without Dayne. I expect the Texans to want Dayne, and I expect Dayne to want to stay with the team.

Goldensilence
01-16-2008, 11:30 AM
Let me ask you a question would you want Tashard Choice, Kevin Smith or Allen patrick starting for the texans next season? I don't I could deal with James Davis maybe but he is a little over-rated due to the fact he has always split time at clemson with other good backs.:fans:

I actually feel all of the above of are nice options and either could fill in nicely . I really feel Allen Patrick is a great fit here as I've repeatedly stated. Guy runs hard between the tackles, converted DE, And he's more of a typical one cut and run guy that excells in a ZBS. Admittedly helps I've seen him play more often then the other two. I am pretty sure for better or worse expect ahman to be ina Texan's UNI come starting next season. In what Role I'm not sure but he'll be here at least through next year.

If we're invoking Denver past here as to how it's going to translate to how we draft I'd expect more BPA 1st (usually on defense). I still think we're deficient on talent level on the Offensive Line not to draft one first round this year. If we gave up 2 seconds for our starting QB whom we gave an extended deal to makes sense in my mind to get him protected and provide a basis for a good ground game. It's no coincidence this year Joe Thomas is drafted and the Cleveland line solidifies. None. Zero coicidence. Guy himself gave up HALF a sack. Keep in mind that's the same division as Pittsburgh and Baltimore's defenses respectively.

Food for thought....Freeney, Mathis, Haynesworth, Henderson, Stroud, Vandenbosch all are in our division and that's not going to go away soon.

Yankee_In_TX
01-17-2008, 09:52 AM
Hey, at least only two losses were to non-playoff teams? The Browns were ALMOST a playoff team, and I still regret losing to ATL.

badboy
01-17-2008, 10:21 AM
We can get help at RB without using our first draft pick. M. Turner, J. Jones, J. Fargas all free agents, and there will be backs like R. Rice available in the middle rounds. What we need most are defensive backs and a left tackle. The possibility of Spencer coming back next season and dominating at left tackle is no more likely Ahman Green coming back and rushing for over 1,000 yards. Not to mention Dayne and Walker made a decent tandem in the backfield and C. Taylor will be healthy. Think how much better our running game will be when we can run on the left side also instead of just the right.Another way to look at it is Dayne and Walker made a decent tandem for a few games. Dayne has not done so well for 16 games on Texans and Taylor has no regular game history so we can only wish for him to do well.

Texans_Chick
01-17-2008, 10:49 AM
Kubiak has publicly stated that they expect Ahman Green to be 100% next season & back with the club, thats the lock. Dayne is being evaluated by the staff & is a free agent. thats not excatly a lock, although it would not surprise me if they bring him back on the cheap.

Green is not a lock.

They said that they expect Green to make a full recovery but that they can't count on that and need to be looking at some young backs.

Translated: We don't dump our high profile FAs in the grease publicly, but we will wait and see if he is good to go.

Lucky
01-17-2008, 10:54 AM
Kubiak has publicly stated that they expect Ahman Green to be 100% next season & back with the club, thats the lock.
Yessiree. In related news, Domanick Davis/Williams is progressing nicely. :texflag:

badboy
01-17-2008, 11:11 AM
Green is not a lock.

They said that they expect Green to make a full recovery but that they can't count on that and need to be looking at some young backs.

Translated: We don't dump our high profile FAs in the grease publicly, but we will wait and see if he is good to go.If Green is cut, he still has an impact on cap but we do save some money. How do injury settlements effect the cap?

michaelm
01-17-2008, 12:54 PM
If Green is cut, he still has an impact on cap but we do save some money. How do injury settlements effect the cap?

Can anyone tell me if Green's injury was a recurrence the injury he had a few years ago in GB? If so, I'd say our liability should be limited in his contract. Of course, that still doesn't answer how it would effect the cap...

Specnatz
01-17-2008, 01:04 PM
Can anyone tell me if Green's injury was a recurrence the injury he had a few years ago in GB? If so, I'd say our liability should be limited in his contract. Of course, that still doesn't answer how it would effect the cap...

It is a completely different Injury. Marvin Harrison had the same injury as Green.

michaelm
01-17-2008, 01:21 PM
It is a completely different Injury. Marvin Harrison had the same injury as Green.

Thanks, I couldn't remember and was too lazy to research it.. :)

badboy
01-17-2008, 01:36 PM
My guess is unless specifically paid out over more than one year, an injury settlement would come out in its entirety in 2008 cap.

threetoedpete
01-17-2008, 02:05 PM
I loosely skimmed through a lot of these posts so excuse my ignorance if it's already been mentioned.

I'm just not all that worried about the guard position as some of you guys are. I don't know I can't help but think that Alex Gibbs and Kasey Studdard... a match made in heaven. Studdard needs his shot soon and what better way to eck that shot into reality with Gibbs? I don't think that Studdard is a ZBS lineman but I don't really think it matters all that much. What Studdard has to offer appears to fall in line with what Gibbs demands.

I'm using flawed logic but it makes sense to me somehow. It just does!

1) Studdard's father was a very successful lineman in the NFL. Therefore Studdard won't have such a large learning curve since we've all heard about Gibbs' impatience for inexperience.

2) Studdard has played in the national spotlight and thrived doing so. He should be fine in the NFL. Especially after following his father's career.

3) Studdard has shown to have a nasty streak and a 'football happens' attitude. An Alex Gibbs requirement. He'll do whatever his coach wants him to do and if that means breaking legs... By that I mean cutblocking. Heck, I can see him taking his helmet off and placing his chompers on a defender's pinkie finger if that's what it takes to run a successful block.

4) Studdard is on the smallish side which should fit the need for a chop blocker.

I don't know. I don't know much about running or assembling a football team that's for sure but I really like the combined mix of Kasey Studdard and Alex Gibbs. I can see Weary (provided he heals up well) and Studdard being our starters next season. Sounds like a lock to me. I'm more inclined to worry about our centers and tackle(s).

I can see Eric Winston being moved around on the line under the discretion of Gibbs. I think he instantly becomes our best ZBS lineman before Gibbs' expertise establishes the rest of our line. Basically, this allows Gibbs flexibility to find his men while Winston, being already experienced in the ZBS scheme, eases off worry simply because of his ZBS training/experience alone.

I hope Pitts is as good as gone. He should be. He blows. His only glory to fame on the Houston Texans is that he's the only guy to have been in on every snap the Texans have ever taken. I think we're just keeping him on there to extend his streak rather than giving Studdard his shot.

Eh. What do I know anyway. Heh!


Well that's two of us that thinks Pitts is more on the bubble for the door than on the bubble for an OLT move. I thought both gaurds were very plodding and ineffective this year. Plodding doesn't lend itself to be alone on an island.

Instead of moving people all around, just go bang an OLT with the (a) draft pick.


Enough seconded teired guys at RB on the board you're not going to miss out on a paltoon guy. I'm still waiting for Ahmen's release and Rick Smith's termintion. 'till that happens all the RB talk @ the eighteen is just that... talk. If Richard Smith gets the offer and their is no one they like at CB, or they have another Bennit targeted in the third, he'll move the pick.

As far a Studdard goes, his first big hurdle will be getting on to the field. All you post is true.
But untill the guy can lace 'em up and show what he's got ...it's all potential. And potential don't win squat in the NFL.

PHAROAH
01-17-2008, 03:06 PM
I can't wait until they get rid of Ahman Green he is done and can't stay healthy and they can get rid of fat Ron Dayne. I bring a good young vet like Julius Jones on 2 year deal and draft another running back and have a two headed monster with real running backs.:whip: :doot:

Wolf
01-17-2008, 03:18 PM
Okay, now I really don't get it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1nzEFMjkI4 :thinking: idonno:

it is funnier with someone making up the captions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwsntHcWiy4&feature=related

badboy
01-17-2008, 03:31 PM
I can't wait until they get rid of Ahman Green he is done and can't stay healthy and they can get rid of fat Ron Dayne. I bring a good young vet like Julius Jones on 2 year deal and draft another running back and have a two headed monster with real running backs.:whip: :doot:Bring some info to support your desire for Jones. IMO he is a mediocre back that can't beat off the challenge by the newer RB in Dallas.

Kaiser Toro
01-17-2008, 10:35 PM
I'm still waiting for Ahmen's release and Rick Smith's termintion. 'till that happens all the RB talk @ the eighteen is just that... talk. If Richard Smith gets the offer and their is no one they like at CB, or they have another Bennit targeted in the third, he'll move the pick.

Not razzing, just trying to qualify. Can you define who is Rick Smith and Richard Smith, by title, in your linguistic flow?

The Pencil Neck
01-17-2008, 11:46 PM
Not razzing, just trying to qualify. Can you define who is Rick Smith and Richard Smith, by title, in your linguistic flow?

Ahhhhh... that suddenly made that make a lot more sense.

I was wondering why Rick Smith was going to get terminated.

michaelm
01-18-2008, 12:11 AM
Not razzing, just trying to qualify. Can you define who is Rick Smith and Richard Smith, by title, in your linguistic flow?

From here on out maybe we should call them the lesser Smith and the greater Smith for clarity.
Anyone who can't identify them by those monikers probably shouldn't be involved in a given conversation about one, or both of them...

The lesser Smith must go!!!!!!!!

Hervoyel
01-18-2008, 12:16 AM
How about "SmithGM" and "SmithDC"?

threetoedpete
01-18-2008, 12:37 AM
Changed it back and forth three times...whatever. Unless you're under a rock you know exactly what I was talking about. The DC coordintor is stilll here and so is the cheap as we were told at the time by some of the same people banging me now in here when we made the deal for him, thrityomething RB. ITYS.

And further..... he plays for a HC who does not throw veterans under the bus. Figure it out.

HOU-TEX
01-18-2008, 10:23 AM
How about "SmithGM" and "SmithDC"?

I can dig this. :splits:

badboy
01-18-2008, 01:35 PM
Changed it back and forth three times...whatever. Unless you're under a rock you know exactly what I was talking about. The DC coordintor is stilll here and so is the cheap as we were told at the time by some of the same people banging me now in here when we made the deal for him, thrityomething RB. ITYS.

And further..... he plays for a HC who does not throw veterans under the bus. Figure it out.I understood what you were talking about and you didn't even use a '-'. I know. I said I'd let it go. (smile)

Rex King
01-21-2008, 05:02 PM
Lots of posts in here about a space-eater for the D-line. I was wondering about that last draft - if we should have taken the NT from Michigan until he started plummeting down the draft charts. We lost Walker, Smith, and Payne. Now Walker and Payne were on their last legs, and Smith wasn't very good, but the point is they all could have played that position in a 4-3. We never filled that role. TJ was projected as more of a one-gap player, so I was hoping Maddox could be the run-stuffer after his "breakout" game at the end of last season. We have improved against the run since 05, partly due to improved LB play, but the front four still get manhandled against the physical teams, most noticeably the Jags and Titans. This is just a big a need as OLB or DB, and bigger than DE, IMO.

TexansSeminole
01-21-2008, 08:29 PM
Lots of posts in here about a space-eater for the D-line. I was wondering about that last draft - if we should have taken the NT from Michigan until he started plummeting down the draft charts. We lost Walker, Smith, and Payne. Now Walker and Payne were on their last legs, and Smith wasn't very good, but the point is they all could have played that position in a 4-3. We never filled that role. TJ was projected as more of a one-gap player, so I was hoping Maddox could be the run-stuffer after his "breakout" game at the end of last season. We have improved against the run since 05, partly due to improved LB play, but the front four still get manhandled against the physical teams, most noticeably the Jags and Titans. This is just a big a need as OLB or DB, and bigger than DE, IMO.

Good post.

We do need to move on alot of positions here on defense. The transition to the 4-3 through our personell is still not over with. I think our DB situation is the biggest need on our defense.