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View Full Version : Best zone blocking LT in draft?


TheRealJoker
01-09-2008, 06:44 PM
Who do you think is the best LT for the zone blocking scheme in the upcoming draft? From what i've seen i'd have to say that Collins from Kansas would be the best fit for our offense and plug a hole that has needed to be plugged since we got Boselli.

beerlover
01-09-2008, 07:27 PM
Who do you think is the best LT for the zone blocking scheme in the upcoming draft? From what i've seen i'd have to say that Collins from Kansas would be the best fit for our offense and plug a hole that has needed to be plugged since we got Boselli.

USC LT Sam Baker

TheRealJoker
01-09-2008, 07:31 PM
USC LT Sam Baker

Isn't he dropping due to injury questions? I remember we picked up Winston in the 3rd because he dropped for injury questions and the whole t-rex arms thing. That didn't turn out too bad.

The1ApplePie
01-09-2008, 07:35 PM
I'm a USC fan, and Baker isn't the answer. Too many injuries and isn't too dominate in the running game. I'd take him in the 3rd in a heartbeat, but not in the first.

painekiller
01-09-2008, 08:46 PM
I remember we picked up Winston in the 3rd because he dropped for injury questions and the whole t-rex arms thing. That didn't turn out too bad.

His cement shoes at the Senior Bowl did not help him either.

painekiller
01-09-2008, 08:49 PM
Brad Cottam TE from Tennessee
Height:6-8
Weight:270
Year:Senior
Junior College
High SchoolEvangelical Christian
Hometown:Germantown, Tenn

Just a thought, Gibbs has converted TE to LT before...

edo783
01-09-2008, 10:30 PM
His cement shoes at the Senior Bowl did not help him either.

Yup, he looked real slow and not very comanding or strong in that game.

michaelm
01-09-2008, 10:43 PM
Brad Cottam TE from Tennessee
Height:6-8
Weight:270
Year:Senior
Junior College
High SchoolEvangelical Christian
Hometown:Germantown, Tenn

Just a thought, Gibbs has converted TE to LT before...


I'm not a big fan of the following phrase, but here it is anyway:
WOW, just WOW...
...THE position that we've all been screaming to have upgraded, and the solution is to convert a TE???
No offense, but THE last thing I think we need at the position is a project, regardless of anyone's past success coaching such a conversion...
Sometimes thinking outside the box is overrated.

Grid
01-09-2008, 11:53 PM
Well I can ALMOST promise you that we are going to be grabbing projects like Cottam this year. We will hopefully also find some patchwork guys to make our line better, but I think that..if Gibbs is gonna be staying a while.. we are gonna let him pick up the late round guys he needs to build the ZB oline that he is good at.

Denver made a dominant oline out of 7th rounders, UDFAs, and converted TEs.

Lucky
01-10-2008, 01:23 AM
Brad Cottam TE from Tennessee
Height:6-8
Weight:270
Just a thought, Gibbs has converted TE to LT before...


...THE position that we've all been screaming to have upgraded, and the solution is to convert a TE???
No offense, but THE last thing I think we need at the position is a project, regardless of anyone's past success coaching such a conversion...
Sometimes thinking outside the box is overrated.
I don't think painekiller is suggesting using the #1 pick on Cottam. He would be a later round pick.

In '04, the Bills signed an oversized TE out of Arkansas named Jason Peters as a college free agent. He made the roster as a blocking TE, was moved to OT his 2nd season, and after 4 years became an All-Pro.

Not saying that Cottam would follow the same path. But, he may have the feet and wing span required of the LT position. He might need to gain around 25 lbs in a Alex Gibbs type zone blocking scheme, which could take a year or two. In the mean time, Cottam could fill the blocking TE role, ala Mark Bruener.

It wouldn't be an immediate solution at LT, but I question whether the Texans will find that at #18 in this draft. Salaam might be the best option the Texans have for the '08 season. If you're looking at LT long term, why not look at a long term prospect?

Nice suggestion, painekiller.

Ole Miss Texan
01-10-2008, 11:06 AM
So with the hire of Gibbs is it looking less likely we're going to get a 1st round LT? And the whole Denver-RB philosophy of 1st rd picks.... I'm one of the thinking that if one of those is the clear cut Best Pick Available they will pull the trigger and take 'em but will def. entertain trade offers.

I say this every year...but ooohhh this draft is going to be fun to watch.

Goldensilence
01-10-2008, 11:46 AM
So with the hire of Gibbs is it looking less likely we're going to get a 1st round LT? And the whole Denver-RB philosophy of 1st rd picks.... I'm one of the thinking that if one of those is the clear cut Best Pick Available they will pull the trigger and take 'em but will def. entertain trade offers.

I say this every year...but ooohhh this draft is going to be fun to watch.

I think this is a good projection. Denver has used early picks on linemen before when the value was good for them. Same was said about RB and we were on the heels of trading back in the first for DeAngelo williams. Not saying we will or won't do anything reguarding either in the first.

I think what's also forgotten is when Shannahan came in it's not like the Oline was in a bad plight like ours is here. They could afford to make 5th round and later picks on the line becasue they could groom them into what they want and needed them to do.Not saying we are in a postion to do that here quite yet but we're way better off now then when Kubiak first arrived.I think he has a bit of wiggle room now with the line and I wonder if Sherman after one way or another helping engineer a rather remarkable turnaround on our line would've stuck around after this year anyway.

We need help at DB, LT, and RB in no paticular order and long as we address those needs in either FA or via the draft long as this team keepsh eaded upwards SMARTLY.

beerlover
01-10-2008, 01:36 PM
Well I can ALMOST promise you that we are going to be grabbing projects like Cottam this year. We will hopefully also find some patchwork guys to make our line better, but I think that..if Gibbs is gonna be staying a while.. we are gonna let him pick up the late round guys he needs to build the ZB oline that he is good at.

Denver made a dominant oline out of 7th rounders, UDFAs, and converted TEs.

you may be right but you need at least one building block. now refresh my memory but was there not a Hall of Fame LT in Denver protecting Elway? Gary Zimmerman

in 83 draft they used the 4th overall pick on Guard Chris Hinton & 31st overall pick (thats like 2 #1's on OL) T Mark Cooper. oh yeah should mention they also drafted Gary Kubiak that year in the 8th rd. so thats where I choose to start reference as to the importance of OL in regards to this thread. In 85 they used their #1 pick on a RB, yes RB Steve Sewell. 86-87 they went to the Super Bowl but lost both games. they dropped off the next year but returned in 89 only to lose again. rebuild.

Gary Zimmerman was acquired by the Denver Broncos in a trade with Minnesota prior to the last preseason game of the 1993 season. In 94 they drafted Tom Nalon 7th rd. 95 Terrell Davis 5th rd. 96 drafted OT Leslie Ratliffe & G Chris Banks in the 7th rd. in 97 & 98 the Denver Broncos won the Super Bowl.

long post to make a short point. you need a centerpiece to build around on the OL you just can't do it with only 7th rd. picks @ the same time you can't use all your high picks on the OL because of other needs but you do need at least one & right now the Texans have nothing remotely close. :cool:

Lucky
01-10-2008, 02:09 PM
you may be right but you need at least one building block. now refresh my memory but was there not a Hall of Fame LT in Denver protecting Elway? Gary Zimmerman

If you're talking about the Oregon Sports Hall of Fame, then yes. Gary Zimmerman is a HOFer. Couple of points.

1) Zimmerman was acquired before Shanahan, Kubiak, and Gibbs came back to the Broncos.
2) Hinton was part of the Elway deal and never played a down for the Broncos.

Gibbs has a reputation for disliking "prima donnas", and wants his linemen to be blue collar type guys. I don't think that necessarily discounts the Texans taking an offensive lineman in the 1st round. As long as they have the right attitude.

beerlover
01-10-2008, 02:19 PM
I assumed he would have been by now if not I know he must be on the short list. http://www.profootballhof.com/enshrinement/story.jsp?story_id=2607&title=Modern+era+semi-finalists+for+Class+of+2008

GARY ZIMMERMAN
Tackle. . .6-6, 294. . .Oregon. . .1986-1992 Minnesota Vikings, 1993-1997 Denver Broncos. . .12 seasons, 184 games. . .Selected in first round (3rd player overall) 1984 NFL Supplemental Draft. . .Originally selected by Giants, signing rights traded to Vikings for two second-round picks in 1986 draft. . .Spent two seasons with the L.A. Express of failed USFL before reporting to Vikings. . .After joining Vikings, began streak of 169 consecutive starts that lasted until 1996 when surgery sidelined him. . .Anchored offensive line that helped Vikings lead NFC in rushing, 1991. . .Acquired by Broncos in trade prior to start of 1993 season. . .With Zimmerman blocking, Broncos recorded most successful offensive output in franchise history. . .Led AFC in total combined yards, 1995. . .Led NFL in that category, 1996, 1997. . .Broncos also led NFL in rushing, 1996. . .Equally adept at pass blocking, Minnesota and Denver quarterbacks led their conferences in passing 1986, 1988, 1993, 1996. . .One of just handful of players to earn honor of being named to two NFL All-Decade Teams, 1980s, 1990s. . .Earned first- or second-team All-Pro honors eight times. . .Selected to play in seven Pro Bowls. . .Born December 13, 1961 in Fullerton, California.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
01-10-2008, 02:22 PM
Chris Hinton was traded to Baltimore as one of the pieces that brought Elway to Denver.





Edit: Lucky already said it.

threetoedpete
01-10-2008, 02:58 PM
I'm not a big fan of the following phrase, but here it is anyway:
WOW, just WOW...
...THE position that we've all been screaming to have upgraded, and the solution is to convert a TE???
No offense, but THE last thing I think we need at the position is a project, regardless of anyone's past success coaching such a conversion...
Sometimes thinking outside the box is overrated.

Matt Lepsis wasn't choped liver. and with all due repect to the mocker who Picked OLT in the first for Bufallo recently, Jason Peters just made second team all pro.

We've got a coach with a proven track record....if he wants the guys to play naked, I ask expect them to strip down befor he finishes his statement.

If he tags a guy in the draft, TE what ever I expect the Texan's guys to sprint to the podium with the card.

steelbtexan
01-10-2008, 04:20 PM
Matt Lepsis wasn't choped liver. and with all due repect to the mocker who Picked OLT in the first for Bufallo recently, Jason Peters just made second team all pro.

We've got a coach with a proven track record....if he wants the guys to play naked, I ask expect them to strip down befor he finishes his statement.

If he tags a guy in the draft, TE what ever I expect the Texan's guys to sprint to the podium with the card.

Lets hope it plays out this way.

badboy
01-10-2008, 04:31 PM
Deleted my post.

painekiller
01-11-2008, 12:00 AM
Heck I would not be surprised to see Pitts moved back outside, nothing that happens to the OL this offseason will surprise me.

And as Lucky said, Cottam would be a 6th or 7th rounder. Start bulking him up, use him as a blocking TE, BTW he can catch and run routes. I would not be unhappy if they drafted him to be the TE.

But he has the frame of a tackle, can he learn the technique?

BSofA04
01-11-2008, 12:16 AM
Good Zone Blocking LT's
Chris Williams, Vanderbilt 6'6" 320 lbs. One of the best lineman in the SEC. Quick feet and very athletic. 3 time All-SEC LT.
Tony Hills, Texas 6'6" 305. Injury might have pushed him past a day 1 pick but he's still got the potential to be a good zone-blocking LT. Houston native.

Bad Zone Blocking LT's
Jeff Otah, Pittsburgh 6'6" 340 lbs. (think Charles Spencer size). Raw, but with lots of potential. Not the quickest first step.
Gosdner Cherilus, Boston College 6'7" 318 lbs. Not expected to be a LT in the NFL due to his struggles at LT last season. Spent first 3 seasons at RT. Slow feet. Plays too high.

And then there's Ryan Clady (LT Boise State).....I highly doubt he makes it to us at 18 but if he does.....I'll be praying for the pick. Otherwise, Chris Williams is my choice for best LT in the Zone Blocking scheme.

beerlover
01-11-2008, 12:29 PM
I also like Kansas LT Anthony Collins if the Texans trade down to the second rd. to get more picks. prototypical size 6060 310 runs a 5 sec 40 & could fit the Gibbs ZBS mold for LT. ytf can expound since he's @ Kansas & knows his game better than any of us.

badboy
01-11-2008, 01:38 PM
Good Zone Blocking LT's
Chris Williams, Vanderbilt 6'6" 320 lbs. One of the best lineman in the SEC. Quick feet and very athletic. 3 time All-SEC LT.
Tony Hills, Texas 6'6" 305. Injury might have pushed him past a day 1 pick but he's still got the potential to be a good zone-blocking LT. Houston native.

Bad Zone Blocking LT's
Jeff Otah, Pittsburgh 6'6" 340 lbs. (think Charles Spencer size). Raw, but with lots of potential. Not the quickest first step.
Gosdner Cherilus, Boston College 6'7" 318 lbs. Not expected to be a LT in the NFL due to his struggles at LT last season. Spent first 3 seasons at RT. Slow feet. Plays too high.

And then there's Ryan Clady (LT Boise State).....I highly doubt he makes it to us at 18 but if he does.....I'll be praying for the pick. Otherwise, Chris Williams is my choice for best LT in the Zone Blocking scheme.I think you have something there on Williams. What about Sam Baker? I noticed a post somewhere saying he'd fit. About the same size but I can't get a handle on what pick he will fall into. I've seen mocks with him high and then very low in first.

badboy
01-11-2008, 01:40 PM
This evaluation on tackles may be of use.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/players.php?genpos=OT&draftyear=2008&sortorder=tsxpos&order=ASC

Ole Miss Texan
01-11-2008, 02:05 PM
This evaluation on tackles may be of use.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/players.php?genpos=OT&draftyear=2008&sortorder=tsxpos&order=ASC

awesome find, thanks!

EDIT: Wow I'm officially in the trade down camp to late-1st or early-2nd targeting Anthony Collins, Chris Williams, or Sam Baker for Left Tackle. Pick up another draft pick (or two) and get us another RB and Secondary player.

badboy
01-11-2008, 04:11 PM
awesome find, thanks!

EDIT: Wow I'm officially in the trade down camp to late-1st or early-2nd targeting Anthony Collins, Chris Williams, or Sam Baker for Left Tackle. Pick up another draft pick (or two) and get us another RB and Secondary player.What is amazing to me is it is possible that we can get a corner, left tackle, OLB and FS as well as a decent RB this off season. With a 2nd it would be even more interesting as to whom we go after where. Hole could conceivably be plugged almost everywhere.

Possible picks

1st:Johnathan Stewart, Felix Jones RB @ 18 or trade down and get tackles you mentioned and get a 2nd round
2nd: LT Tony Hill (maybe later round) RBs CHris Johnson, Jamaal Charles, Ray Rice or maybe OLB Quentin Groves
3rd:OLB CLiff Avril, LT Carl Nicks 6'5" 330 BUT 5.25 http://www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=4&SPID=22&DB_OEM_ID=100&ATCLID=325005&Q_SEASON=2006can play both tackles and OG.
4th: FS Quentin Demps or Marcus Griffin and RB Boise State Ian Johnson

rollinstone18
01-11-2008, 04:24 PM
Good Zone Blocking LT's
Chris Williams, Vanderbilt 6'6" 320 lbs. One of the best lineman in the SEC. Quick feet and very athletic. 3 time All-SEC LT.
Tony Hills, Texas 6'6" 305. Injury might have pushed him past a day 1 pick but he's still got the potential to be a good zone-blocking LT. Houston native.

Bad Zone Blocking LT's
Jeff Otah, Pittsburgh 6'6" 340 lbs. (think Charles Spencer size). Raw, but with lots of potential. Not the quickest first step.
Gosdner Cherilus, Boston College 6'7" 318 lbs. Not expected to be a LT in the NFL due to his struggles at LT last season. Spent first 3 seasons at RT. Slow feet. Plays too high.

And then there's Ryan Clady (LT Boise State).....I highly doubt he makes it to us at 18 but if he does.....I'll be praying for the pick. Otherwise, Chris Williams is my choice for best LT in the Zone Blocking scheme.

Really? I thought I read footwork was a strength.

BSofA04
01-11-2008, 07:42 PM
Really? I thought I read footwork was a strength.
It's varies depending on which site you read. Unfortunantly, I haven't been able to see but one Pitt game this year, so I can't really speak from personal experience. But if I'm going to take one side or another, I'm going with the law of physics that says that a guy 340 lbs. shouldn't be able to fit a zone blocking scheme as a tackle. I guess the best way to get a good idea of his athleticism is to pay close attention to the combine. True heights and weights are exposed for all.

painekiller
01-11-2008, 11:49 PM
Really? I thought I read footwork was a strength.

It is, we will have to wait for the 3 cone drill at the combine. He is one of the most athletic guys in the draft. He has a violent punch, and he needs some seasoning.

Williams is also a good fit.

Butler, who is already on the roster, fits the Gibbs model, and even though I got spanked about it, the TE from Tennessee fits his model, with a few years of work.

kastofsna
01-12-2008, 01:01 AM
pfft, Otah is totally sound with his feet. watch his drills at the combine, they'll be fun to watch.

beerlover
01-12-2008, 02:52 AM
pfft, Otah is totally sound with his feet. watch his drills at the combine, they'll be fun to watch.

the Senior Bowl is going to be way better & more telling, if you get NFL Network you can watch the practices all week & watch technique, ability to learn new teaching & some good one on one with top DE's.

Last year remember was Amobi Okoye's coming out party, I thought there was a good chance Gruden would take him #4 he impressed the hell out of everybody, explosion, burst, good use of hands & relentless pursuit.

threetoedpete
01-12-2008, 07:19 AM
http://www.seniorbowl.com/2007/news/2008sec.htm

kastofsna
01-12-2008, 09:42 AM
all the big names from LSU at the Senior Bowl. also Matt Ryan..

threetoedpete
01-12-2008, 10:09 AM
Yeah I'm hoping one of the two QBs is still on the board after seventeen and we get another Quinn scenario that Beerlover posted the other day. Two high end guys at critical needs positions is better than one. I mean if Hotlanta does take McFaddin one....we end up with two twoes and two threes...that would be good. That would be four quality propects for four holes. And something on top for '09 ? Or a player. We could take Houston off their hands.

threetoedpete
01-12-2008, 10:19 AM
the Senior Bowl is going to be way better & more telling, if you get NFL Network you can watch the practices all week & watch technique, ability to learn new teaching & some good one on one with top DE's.

Last year remember was Amobi Okoye's coming out party, I thought there was a good chance Gruden would take him #4 he impressed the hell out of everybody, explosion, burst, good use of hands & relentless pursuit.

Now where Tony Ugoh's mind was last year is anyone guess. Never used the "C" word. But what I will say I find it truly remarkble at the improvement in just six months. He went form guy who couldn't block anyone at the senior bowl practices to guy who blocked everyone NFL. I know what I saw last Febuary. I mean I'm not above a miss, but the improvement was quite remarkble.

beerlover
01-12-2008, 01:56 PM
checking the Hula Bowl rosters I noticed 6072 305 LT Breno Giacomini, Loisville who is a big, physical converted TE. projected 6th/7th rd.

beerlover
02-04-2008, 03:55 PM
If you're talking about the Oregon Sports Hall of Fame, then yes. Gary Zimmerman is a HOFer. Couple of points.

1) Zimmerman was acquired before Shanahan, Kubiak, and Gibbs came back to the Broncos.
2) Hinton was part of the Elway deal and never played a down for the Broncos.

Gibbs has a reputation for disliking "prima donnas", and wants his linemen to be blue collar type guys. I don't think that necessarily discounts the Texans taking an offensive lineman in the 1st round. As long as they have the right attitude.

Zimmerman is in now :)

http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.cms.support.viewStory.cls?cid=58956&sid=1&fid=1