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View Full Version : Forgive the stupidity, Why doesn't Dom PLay Billy Miller


Joe Texan
11-24-2004, 01:19 PM
He catches balls, wins games, was a key reciever for Carr,(which would give us at least 2, DD and BM).
If Carr is so prone to throw to DD or to hand it off to him then why do we not let Billy have a shot at trying to get David to look more down feild. Our other Tight ends absolutely blow as far as catches and blocking.

infantrycak
11-24-2004, 05:08 PM
Carr should get the TE's involved more. Part of the problem is they are often staying in blocking. Part of why Miller was so key the 1st year was because the WR's weren't performing. Miller is the one that blows at blocking--Bruener is almost like having an extra OT out there.

Porky
11-24-2004, 05:14 PM
Carr should get the TE's involved more. Part of the problem is they are often staying in blocking. Part of why Miller was so key the 1st year was because the WR's weren't performing. Miller is the one that blows at blocking--Bruener is almost like having an extra OT out there.

Right, Miller blows at blocking. But, he proved in 2002 he was a good pass catcher. If they aren't going to use him that way, then he might as well be the water boy. I think he should be used more. Get him 3-4 throws a game. That's enough to keep the defense honest, and he can help even more against certain defenses. He should be matched up against a LB most of the time, so I cannot explain why they don't try to exploit that matchup more often.

infantrycak
11-24-2004, 05:28 PM
Porky--I started with they should use the TE's more. Frankly, unlike the AJ doesn't see the ball enough crowd, I am more of the mindset that Miller, Bruener, Gaffney and Armstrong need to be consistantly getting more tosses, especially up the slot--seems to have worked most of the times we have thrown it, it is a weakness of the cover 2--but no, we don't even try it many games.

Porky
11-24-2004, 05:48 PM
Porky--I started with they should use the TE's more. Frankly, unlike the AJ doesn't see the ball enough crowd, I am more of the mindset that Miller, Bruener, Gaffney and Armstrong need to be consistantly getting more tosses, especially up the slot--seems to have worked most of the times we have thrown it, it is a weakness of the cover 2--but no, we don't even try it many games.

I agree. I was agreeing with your premise to use the TE's more. In fact, I agree with everything you just said. At this point, I'm just trying to break the Guniess record for most use of the word agree in one post. :jumpbanan

beerlover
11-24-2004, 05:59 PM
Agree with all of you guys, the TE is missing in the Texans game planning and defenses are keying in on Andre or Carr. This to me is the single most glaring need for improvement in 04. This also affects the running game or the lack there of. Making a serious run to sign a Pro Bowl TE, a proven commodity like Alge Crumpler would produce results we could all live with. In the meantime throw the ball to what you got, because right now its too predictable :rolleyes:

infantrycak
11-24-2004, 06:19 PM
I agree. I was agreeing with your premise to use the TE's more. In fact, I agree with everything you just said. At this point, I'm just trying to break the Guniess record for most use of the word agree in one post. :jumpbanan

Everyone has to have a dream--good decision not to set your goals too high.

Definitely on the list of things that mystify me is where has Armstrong been--as opposed to the TE's that are actually in the game and not getting thrown to (i.e. Carr may be at fault) he hasn't been in the game enough to satisfy me (i.e. Palmer/Capers may be at fault).

infantrycak
11-24-2004, 06:24 PM
Agree with all of you guys, the TE is missing in the Texans game planning and defenses are keying in on Andre or Carr. This to me is the single most glaring need for improvement in 04. This also affects the running game or the lack there of. Making a serious run to sign a Pro Bowl TE, a proven commodity like Alge Crumpler would produce results we could all live with. In the meantime throw the ball to what you got, because right now its too predictable :rolleyes:

JMO, but signing premier players to improve rather than to fill that missing hole (i.e. Terrell Owens) is a bad recipe. I would rather see the Texans sign upper tier, non-elite players like Robaire Smith and draft well to fill out the roster. Just as examples, how much benefit would Crumpler give us over Dallas Clark or Jason Witten?--not starting a Joppru draft debate here, we don't know what he would have done without the freak injury.

Double Barrel
11-24-2004, 06:32 PM
yeah, I was wondering the same thing Sunday about the lack of balls to Miller. What ever happened to that quick route where the TE is a dump off?

Sometimes I wonder if our offense is in a state of regression. I watch other offenses with less talent do more with what they have, and we have so much talent that so much seems to be wasted.

I'm starting to conclude that a) zone blocking is not a good fit for our talent (which lack of trench control is the root of so many problems), and b) Palmer just isn't utilizing or gameplanning for the talent we have on the team.

I'm not a "fire Palmer" fan, as I think much of our subpar play is due to the lack of fire in our players and poor execution. But, the coaches should be able to gameplan and alter things during the game to make up for a lot of these problems, IMO.

shansmacker
11-24-2004, 07:09 PM
Looks to me like Carr has lost a certian amount of confidence in his ability to make the accurate throw into tight coverage.That could be part of the reason we dont see the T.E. getting many balls or very many shots at the slot down the middle.

texacutor
11-24-2004, 07:35 PM
why don't the coachs give murphy a shot to see if his play in the preseason is for real or not? 5 catchs for 85 yds in 4 games at the TE position is real good. i don't understand all this talk about Joppru MAYBE being the answer when we are not even using the TE we signed. i also don't get why there is talk of the 2005 draft to use a valuble pick, when we have not exhausted ALL our home possibilities at the TE position. we need HELP now!!! MAYBE murphy can be the help we need to be even the safety valve we lack on offense to open it up for #'s 80,85,86 and 88. :hmmm:

utahmark
11-24-2004, 08:02 PM
why don't the coachs give murphy a shot to see if his play in the preseason is for real or not? 5 catchs for 85 yds in 4 games at the TE position is real good. i don't understand all this talk about Joppru MAYBE being the answer when we are not even using the TE we signed. i also don't get why there is talk of the 2005 draft to use a valuble pick, when we have not exhausted ALL our home possibilities at the TE position. we need HELP now!!! MAYBE murphy can be the help we need to be even the safety valve we lack on offense to open it up for #'s 80,85,86 and 88. :hmmm:

im not one of those guys who thinks the coaches always know's best, but i think they have seen plenty of murphy in practice and have a good idea if he can help or not. and apparantly they dont think he can.

aj.
11-24-2004, 08:05 PM
If we had an offensive line that was bad azz and moving people around, you would see BM in there because then it wouldn't be so important to have Bruener the extra blocker in there.

Porky
11-24-2004, 09:06 PM
Good point AJ. I'm sure that has alot to do with it. But, why not use Miller on 3rd down here and there as a safety valve, utilizing a two TE set. Not all the time, but just to give the D something different to think about. Bruener can still stay in to block if pass protection is an issue, and DD or Wells can stay in and chip too if needed. That would leave you with Miller, AJ, and Gaffney running patterns. :popcorn:

disaacks3
11-24-2004, 11:37 PM
Unfortunately, I've seen Breuner hit in the numbers a few times w/o a catch in the last 3 games. So, it's a reverse Billy Miller scenario....Billy can't block, but Breuner can't catch! His last catch came against Minnesota!

It appears that the opposing defense doesn't have to worry about either of our "current" TE being a threat. If you see Breuner, he's gonna block (or be ineffective as a receiver), if you see Miller, he's going out for a pass. This is the kind of predictability that can kill us.

I'm not of the mindset that coaches are infallible and are never wrong in who they start. Whatever we do, I'd rather they work to shake something up right now, than sit back and accept their lousy performances on Offense the last 3 weeks! 13-14 points a game just isn't going to get it done in this league unless you've got a Ravens-type defense to fall back on.

TexanTom
11-25-2004, 03:09 AM
How often do we use a two TE set in the game? I don't feel like it happens all that often. I remember thinking when we first signed Bruener that we would see a lot of two TE sets. Seems to me you can use 2TE,2WR to create matchup problems b/c you can come out in a lot of different formations and audible/change formations based on the defense they put out against you...line up Billy in the slot, etc.

On that same note - I really liked it early in the year where we would put Davis in motion and got him lined up outside like a receiver. I thought we created some interesting matchups and got some nice plays out of it but it seemed like we got scared of it when he kept fumbling (I know at least one, but maybe two, of his fumbles happened when he had motioned out wide). I don't wanna sound like I'm advocating a million motions before the snap, those offenses piss me off a whole lot, but I do like using your personnel in a non-traditional way to create some different matchups (hopefully mismatchups) or overload a zone.

Wolf
11-25-2004, 10:32 AM
Good point AJ. I'm sure that has alot to do with it. But, why not use Miller on 3rd down here and there as a safety valve, utilizing a two TE set. Not all the time, but just to give the D something different to think about. Bruener can still stay in to block if pass protection is an issue, and DD or Wells can stay in and chip too if needed. That would leave you with Miller, AJ, and Gaffney running patterns. :popcorn:

WHAT??? WHAT ARE YOU SAYING MAN. ARE YOU CRAZY? That would mean we wouldn't throw to DD in the flat when the other WR's are covered. That would ruin our offensive flow. (I am agreeing with porky just making a joke while doing it)
:BananaWav

Wolf
11-25-2004, 10:34 AM
some of the TE questionis where answered on this thread from AJ and vinny

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=4550

wags
11-28-2004, 04:08 PM
He catches balls, wins games, was a key reciever for Carr,(which would give us at least 2, DD and BM).
If Carr is so prone to throw to DD or to hand it off to him then why do we not let Billy have a shot at trying to get David to look more down feild. Our other Tight ends absolutely blow as far as catches and blocking.

Nice to see us actually use the tight end.

beerlover
11-28-2004, 04:19 PM
Nice to see us actually use the tight end.

I totally agree wags :whew

Joe Texan
11-30-2004, 01:08 PM
Small mouths are heard
I saw Billy in the game

rittenhouserobz
11-30-2004, 01:36 PM
When I saw one the replays of a throw to the TE the LB was not even looking at the TE. My geuss is that defenses just figure the odds are that Bruener is always going to block and BM is always going to recieve. Unless the Texans mix it up, defenses will be able to telegraph our play choices more readily.

SBTexans08
11-30-2004, 01:38 PM
When I saw one the replays of a throw to the TE the LB was not even looking at the TE. My geuss is that defenses just figure the odds are that Bruener is always going to block and BM is always going to recieve. Unless the Texans mix it up, defenses will be able to telegraph our play choices more readily.


Good job sir....I was hoping someone would mention that.:thumbup: